COVID-19 INFORMATION What you need to know about the coronavirus if you are living in Japan or planning a visit.
national

Mass beaching fuels fears of imminent quake

83 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2015 AFP

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

83 Comments
Login to comment

The mass beaching of more than 150 melon-headed whales on Japan’s shores has fueled fears of a repeat of...the devastating 2011 undersea earthquake

Horrible thought. Let's hope not.

If a major disaster does not materialize, speculation of this possibility will soon be forgotten. Otherwise, If a calamity does strike this connection will raise some eyebrows.

This story (link follows) was published on March 8, 2011, just days before the March 11 quake and tsunami in Tohoku, and is about an incident where millions of sardines and anchovies washed up on Redondo Beach, "creating a stinky mess for harbor authorities." I remember seeing this story on CNN before the Tohoku quake hit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/08/dead-anchovies-wash-up-on_n_832976.html?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Please. Everyone knows that the only reliable way to predict earthquakes is to see whether ones rhubarb in the garden is happy or not! Sad looking rhubarb is a dead givaway  。 ^_^ 。

4 ( +12 / -8 )

HARRP?

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

HARRP?

Very probable.

HAARP ionizes the air and water which confuses the sonar of the Whales.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

In some ways it may be good if it turns out that there is a connection because then it may give some people time to prepare more. Then again, I guess it could also induce panic but isn't some sort of early warning system what we all want?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Have they been tested for radiation levels

0 ( +8 / -8 )

They probably panicked when they encountered a cold water mass.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

HAARP is in Alaska. The antenna arrays point only up. They send out radio waves. If you think it's HAARP, explain how they can utilize HAARP and cause earthquakes and whale beachings thousands of miles away, without interrupting local radio or TV broadcasts? To send radio waves powerful enough to move the earth, you'd expect to see evidence in other areas, surely? Or can they program HAARP to move tectonic plates and not affect anything else?

I'm looking forward to the scientific explanation of HAARP causing earthquakes and whale beachings in only one area.

"HAARP ionizes the air and water which confuses the sonar of the Whales."

On only one beach in Japan? Why not the whole coast?

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Two times a bunch of marine mammals mass-beached at the same time and place as an earthquake, at least if you define time and place vaguely enough.

According to Wikipedia, every year somewhere in the world up to 2000 marine mammals beach themselves. We don't usually remember any of those times because they didn't have an earthquake to grab our attention, so let's forget about them.

Clearly there must be a correlation, as long as we ignore all the times there isn't one.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

Should use excavator to dig the sand around the whale so there is water before towing them with boat back to sea.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This may be a crazy idea, but could it be that the ocean is so polluted with radiation the dolphins were fleeing in a panic?

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

I think we should be very worried.

The huge one is imminent.

Might not be in the next few days but certainly very soon.

It's going to change our lives here completely.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

One more possible factor is the Destroyer, or NIbiru, which is supposed to be approaching and will disturb the Earth magnetic fields. Here is a good link in Spanish with English subtitles from Carlos Munoz Ferrada who predicted Chile's strong earthquake in the 40s and at first nobody believed him. But when it struck, they were all shocked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhCEOnurFuA

As for the HAARP, Arto Lauri can give you a good explanation. He used to work at the Olkiluoto nuclear power plant in Finland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V71EclYZm2c

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

A connection between big earthquakes and stranding of melon-headed whales?

There are other explanations for their stranding, such as "follow-me" beachings in which a pod of cetaceans are trapped in shallow waters by following leaders that are faster in swimming to escape dangerous tides.

But to me, the "sonar" theory sounds most convincing.

Wikipedia describes:

"There is evidence that active sonar leads to beaching. On some occasions whales have stranded shortly after military sonar was active in the area, suggesting a link. Theories describing how sonar may cause whale deaths have also been advanced after necropsies found internal injuries in stranded whales."

The U.S. navy is prohibited by law to engage in sonar exercises in the U.S. coastal waters but they are free to do so in international waters far from the U.S. mainland. Maybe, the U.S. Navy has an accumulation of data showing the connection between the sonar exercises and whale strandings.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Who knows. Maybe the whales are smarter than us when it comes to earthquakes. Question is: why would they think they're better off on the land? Maybe they want to warn us.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"So long, and thanks for all the fish."

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It could be one of several reasons: the middle to last groups get trapped while trying to follow the leaders; sonar disruption from Japanese, Chinese, Russian or US in the water; or natural occurrences that precede the coming of a natural disaster.

I'll stock up on a few extra bottles of water and bombe cans just in case. Better safe than sorry!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Who says that there is no scientific evidence? The late Osaka University professor of Earth Sciences, Motoji Ikeya spent the last years of his life devoted to researching the ways in which animals detect earthquakes. It seems that earthquakes create a great big piezoelectric effect that creates electric fields that animals with sensitive non visual sensory apparatus (particularly dark water / whiskered fish, such as cat-fish and oarfish and apparently dolphins) find nasty - hence the beachings. Land mammals, such as cats and dogs, may be able to smell or otherwise sense the ionization of the air, and even humans can observe some pretty weird per-earthquake clouds. A Californian company aims to detect Ionization directly using electronic sensors.

Professor Ikeya's web site http://www.eqsigns.net/

A blog post by me on oarfish sightings (skip to the end for the science) http://www.burogu.com/2013/02/deep-sea-fish-and-next-japanese.html?m=0

What are the clouds in Ibaraki now? A Google image search for earthquake clouds (地震 雲) in Japanese reveals stripey formations.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

This is probably absolute hooey, but then again, it's always good to keep an open mind to the possibilities. Still, that being said, there is zero correlation as of now. This happens all the time around the world.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Anyone can predict the next big quake with the prediction written and sealed in an envelope. However, the timing accuracy requires a lot of envelopes.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I think we should be very worried. The huge one is imminent. Might not be in the next few days but certainly very soon. It's going to change our lives here completely.

We already have, in 2011. Sadly, while destroying and changing hundreds of thousands of lives, few of the following changes have been for the better.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Even the idea of a correlation is freaky, forgetting for a minute about the poor whales. Hopefully, of course, it does not in fact precede some kind of massive disaster (or lesser one!), but I also hope that if it's just completely random that it doesn't happen again.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Anyone living or staying in Japan should just make sure that you and your family know where to go take cover if earthquake hits. Keep some food and water close. Remove movable heavy things from above in the room. Have your embassy's email address on your cell phone.

Just in case.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If the predictions of impending dome are correct, we will find out in a few days or weeks, hopefully it does not happen, but if it does will the scientists start looking into this theory that they can detect seismic activity?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Even if there IS some scientific link, there are so many strandings around the world with absolutely zero link to seismic activity, there possibility this is another impending quake are (in my non-scientific opinion) extremely close to zero. Some stories link to the NZ quakes of 2011 (which was actually an aftershock located on land), but in NZ alone strandings occur several times a year, with no obvious link to seismic activity.

I personally believe there is no need at all for alarm simply from this, but people need to remember that in countries like Japan quakes can strike at any time. There is no reason to not be prepared at all times.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

But to me, the "sonar" theory sounds most convincing.

Well except for the fact that beachings have occurred all over the world at least as far back as there are written records, long before humans had sonar. Add the fact that most modern beachings occur no where near any source of active sonar.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It is probable that the whales are simply lost because of a navigation failure caused by seaquake-induced sinus barotrauma. These conditions will make diving for food very painful and thus the whales, being blind due to the sinus barotrauma will follow the current where it takes them.

Quoting from Captain David Williams (link below) "It helps us to know that melon-headed whales like to hang out along the edges of deep drop offs; they also like to visit nearby shallow water. For this reason, many pods of melon-headed whales have been observed offshore of Guam Island. This means that if there was a whale-dangerous earthquake off Guam, a pod of melon-headed whales might a pressure-related sinus injury. They would then beach themselves somewhere downstream from Guam.

In the hundreds of mass stranding we have traced over the last 40 years; we find the average downstream distance between a seaquake epicenter and the stranding beach is about 2,400 miles and about 23 days later.

As it turns out, the main current flowing along Hokota beach also flows right through the waters of Guam. Thus, if there was a nasty seaquake near Guam in which the time and distance traveled downstream also agrees with the stranding date, then this event becomes highly suspicious.

Like magic, we find that just such event occurred did occur off Guam 19 days prior to the stranding and about 2,400 miles upstream from the stranding beach. Under ideal conditions, the pod could travel ~125 miles per day so the time and distanced fits with the stranding date. Since Guam is also a known habitat for melon-headed whales, this seaquake seems even more likely to be the cause of the beaching."

Please refer to the below link which adds some light to the subject

http://deafwhale.blogspot.jp/2015/04/150-melon-headed-whales-beached-in-japan.html

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Mike O'Brien

You say that "beachings have occurred all the world." So what? Isn't the U.S. Navy engaged in active sonar exercises all over the world?

You also say that "most modern beachings occur nowhere near any source of active sonar." You seem to be confident about what you are saying, but you are wrong. Here's one recent piece of evidence that active sonar indeed stranded whales.

Read "U.S. Navy Implicated in New Mass Stranding of Whales" posted on Switchboard(http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mjasny/us_navy_implicated_in_new_mass.html) April 2, 2014.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Aside from the physical reasons for such behaviour, another possibility is that these whales, being highly intelligent as whales and dolphins are, have made a conscious choice to die by stranding themselves on beaches, for reasons we do not yet understand. Foreknowledge of an impending earthquake is one such possibility, however remote the chances to our way of thinking. Being cautious is always a good idea to prolong our survival. But above all, we should enjoy life in the present moment, because the only certainty about the future is that we are each and every one going to exit the physical world. As Janis Joplin said in the intro to her song, "It's all the same f...ing day man!"

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Killer whales might have done this. They chase melon-headed whales for food sometimes. It seems killer whales would have pushed them all the way to the beach.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

One more possible factor is the Destroyer, or NIbiru, which is supposed to be approaching and will disturb the Earth magnetic fields

Yeah. Err... That seems legit.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@voiceofokinawa

No, the US Navy doesn't engage in active sonar excersises all over the world.

Yes, I am confident with what I am saying. Facts tend to make me confident.

I never said that sonar (you do realize it isn't just US Navy sonar, right?) doesn't cause some problems for dolphins and isn't implicated in some beachings.

I did notice you completely failed to address the plain fact that beachings where happening long before human sonar ever existed and even long before the US Navy ever existed.

Also your link didn't work. Try this one

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mjasny/us_navy_implicated_in_new_mass.html

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Mike O'Brien,

Thank you for correcting the botch my reference to an Internet blog caused.

Now, read the article yourself and you will be convinced more that active sonar exercises were responsible for the whale strandings that occurred in 1996, 1997, 2011 and 2014. Of course you can't point your finger only at the U.S. Navy in these cases but the U.S. Navy was involved in these military exercises. So you can say without any hesitation that the U.S. Navy was at least partly responsible for these incidents.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Some of you need to brush up on the difference between correlation and causation. Yes, it seems plausible that under certain conditions an earthquake tremor might drive a pod of cetaceans to beach themselves. Yes, it seems plausible that under certain conditions a sonar could do the same. But when all we know is that a pod of cetaceans have beached themselves, there is simply no way as a spectator on the Internet to just know why it happened without someone getting off their butt and doing some honest research first.

Put another way: The last time I was in a major earthquake, I was sighted under my desk. That does not mean every time I am sighted under my desk, an earthquake is imminent. Sometimes I'm just down there because I dropped a peanut.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Can anyone explain why active sonar exercises by the U.S. Navy is prohibited by law in the U.S. waters? Doesn't it point to the fact that the U.S. government is fully aware that active sonar causes serious damage to cetaceans?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Can anyone explain why active sonar exercises by the U.S. Navy is prohibited by law in the U.S. waters?

NIMBY politics, that's all. There's no clear evidence of harm.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Pandabelle,

Your answer doesn't hit the nail on the head. If NIMBY is what explains why the U.S. Navy is prohibited by law from launching sonar exercises in the U.S. waters, then it shows all the more that the U.S. knows active sonar causes serious damage to cetaceans. And knowing that, you say, the U.S. Navy is carrying out such exercises in the waters of foreign countries? That's sheer hypocrisy indeed.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

it shows all the more that the U.S. knows active sonar causes serious damage to cetaceans

This is an area of intense political debate between environmental groups, governments, and the military. The exact effect of underwater acoustic sources on marine life depends on the type of source, intensity, frequency range, etc. It's far from settled science because of the politics involved.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pandabelle,

I'm asking why the U.S. Navy is prohibited from sonar exercises in its own waters. If there were no connection between active sonar and whale strandings, why this law?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If there were no connection between active sonar and whale strandings, why this law?

Because environmental groups pushed for it. As I said, politics. Politics doesn't make for fact, you know.

And not all sorts of sonar testing is banned - only certain frequencies. Similar types of acoustic survey methods are not banned in the Gulf of Mexico, but there must be mitigation methodologies used.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You mean environmentalists pushed for enacting the law on shaky grounds and the government conceded?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You mean environmentalists pushed for enacting the law on shaky grounds and the government conceded?

Would hardly be the first time lobbyists got their way, would it?

What do you think about the recent whale beachings in Miami? Obviously not sonar or earthquakes there, right?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article18375947.html

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Now, read the article yourself and you will be convinced more that active sonar exercises were responsible for the whale strandings that occurred in...

I did read the article. That is how, unlike you, I got the link correct. And I will repeat; I never said that sonar...doesn't cause some problems for dolphins and isn't implicated in some beachings.

So you can say without any hesitation that the U.S. Navy was at least partly responsible for these incidents.

No, I can't say that and neither can you with certainty. It is like katsu78 stated, correlation and causation are NOT the same thing. Correlation is just one piece of evidence that needs to be looked at. The info in the article, written by someone opposed to sonar use, does not have enough evidence to conclusively blame sonar as all or part of the cause in those cases.

Can anyone explain why active sonar exercises by the U.S. Navy is prohibited by law in the U.S. waters?

Can you provide a reference to this law? Because from what I have found the US Supreme Court has said that national defense overrides environmental and animal protection laws.

Again I did notice you completely failed to address the plain fact that beachings where happening long before human sonar ever existed and even long before the US Navy ever existed.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There are people, on one hand, who claim that active sonar is the cause of the frequent beaching of whales in recent years. On the other, there are people who claim there's no correlation between the two, saying that active sonar is not responsible for the beaching.

Correlation and cause are of course two different things. But if correlation is as frequent as to be called regular, then one can surmise what the cause of a phenomenon really is.

Both sides lack hard facts to prove their claims, but to me environmentalists seem to have an upper hand over sonar promoters in this case.

If suspicion exists, human activities must be stopped until the real cause of calamities is identified.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@voiceofokinawa

I agree with your last comment but:

If suspicion exists, human activities must be stopped until the real cause of calamities is identified.

Come on now, that's way too restrictive. Whose suspicion? There are activists who would do anything to promote their viewpoint or denigrate the viewpoint of those they disagree with.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Pandabelle,

Suspicion must not necessarily be shared by the majority of people. We're not talking about politics. If someone raises suspicion on an issue for reasonable reasons, then he must not be ignored.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If someone raises suspicion on an issue for reasonable reasons, then he must not be ignored.

What are "reasonable reason" and who decides that? Your "reasonable reasons" and mine are sure to be different.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Who decides what "reasonable reasons" are?

That's a philosophical question. Rationality or morality is something that is taken for granted when we distinguish right from wrong. You can't question that basic. It's like "Cogito, ergo sum (I think, therefore I am)."

Reckless or incidental killing of creatures is wrong in my judgement.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Reckless or incidental killing of creatures is wrong in my judgement.

Absolutely. Agree completely. But that's not really what we are discussing here, is it?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pandabelle,

OK. The starting point of our current discussion was my suggestion that if someone raises suspicion on an issue, not haphazardly but reasonably enough, he must not be ignored. My suspicion, as well as many environmentalists', is that active sonar may be causing the frequent stranding of dolphins and whales.

There's no definite evidence as yet to substantiate this claim, but neither is there to disprove it. So my stand is: Stop sonar exercises, if there is the possibility that such human activities may be inadvertently mass-killing cetaceans, until the real culprit is clearly identified..

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So my stand is: Stop sonar exercises

But this itself is flawed. Where is the evidence that there were sonar exercises in this area? I mean yes, if there were sonar exercises in this area at the time of the beachings it would indeed seem to be a possible factor, but AFAIK there's not any evidence of that.

And I mentioned earlier, just this week there were beachings in Florida where such exercises are banned. So what is to blame there?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Does the U.S. Navy forewarn there'll be sonar exercises in a certain sea area at a certain time? Why are you so sure to say that there were no sonar exercises at the time of (or prior to) the beaching of those poor whales? Were you involved in the actual naval maneuvering?

As for the Florida beaching case, isn't it true that the U.S. Navy is banned from using a certain range of electronic frequency? Aren't they free to exercise with ranges outside of it?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

As for the Florida beaching case, isn't it true that the U.S. Navy is banned from using a certain range of electronic frequency? Aren't they free to exercise with ranges outside of it?

First sonar is built with a set frequency, it is not like they change it by turning a knob.

Second still waiting for you to provide citation to some law preventing the US Navy from conducting active sonar exercises in US waters.

And lastly still waiting for you to address beachings that happened before sonar was even invented and before the US Navy even existed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why are you so sure to say that there were no sonar exercises at the time of (or prior to) the beaching of those poor whales?

I'm not! There's zero evidence there were, though. There's also zero evidence any other cause, too. Why are you so sure the Navy is the cause?

Were you involved in the actual naval maneuvering?

What naval maneuvering??????

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Japanese media only report that the mass beaching on April 10 of more than 150 melon-headed whales on a Ibaraki beach is fueling fears of an imminent earthquake possibly to occur in the area. There are scientists who are studying a correlation between earthquakes and abnormal animal behavior that are often observed ahead of big temblors.

There are also scientists who speculate that the mass stranding of cetaceans may be caused by parasites that affect their orientation organs in the brain.

But the Internet is seething with reports pointing to another possibility: that the culprit is not an imminent earthquake, parasites or maladies of any kind, but Navies' high-intensity sonar ranging exercises.

I suggest posters here to click open a computer search engine by entering "whale stranding in the world." They will be surprised to find how frequently and widely such stranding has occurred the world over in recent years. If there's a strong, regular correlation between the increase of whale stranding and high-intensity sonar ranging exercises by Navies, then the culprit is determined right then and there.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If there's a strong, regular correlation between the increase of whale stranding and high-intensity sonar ranging exercises by Navies, then the culprit is determined right then and there.

Again - there. is. no. evidence. of. such. testing. in. the. area. at. that. time.

I cannot put it any simpler than that.

But the Internet is seething with reports

The internet seethes with a lot of things. Go look at the chemtrail idiots for a prime example.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If there's a strong, regular correlation between the increase of whale stranding and high-intensity sonar ranging exercises by Navies, then the culprit is determined right then and there.

NO. If there was correlation then it would create a theory to investigate.

But you have provided no data that shows an increase in whale strandings since the invention of sonar. You have also provided no data showing any sonar activity near this latest stranding.

Real scientists, as opposed to internet "experts", have believed that in SOME cases their is a connection between sonar and strandings. But they also KNOW that in some cases there are definitely other causes.

They also know that strandings occurred before humans ever invented sonar. But for some reason you refuse to discuss that issue or even acknowledge its existence.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Pendabelle,

So you think news about frequent stranding of whales is no different from the "chemtrail" fuss? The following are some of a myriad of articles I picked up from the Internet. Do you think the well-established news media such as Los Angeles Times, The Guardian, and The Washington Post are reporting shams?

"Royal Navy Testing Sonar Blamed For Mass Whale Deaths" By Torcuil Crichton The Sunday Herald.com: 11-12-2 "Obama’s Chance to Save the Whales." Keep Navy sonar exercises out of the world’s largest ocean reserve. By Joshua Horwitz. Science: July 1 2014 7:02 AM "Sonar Banned in U.S. Navy Exercise to Protect Hawaii Whales." National Geographic News: Thursday, October 28, 2010 "Judge curbs Navy sonar." Los Angeles Times:: August 7, 2007 "Whales at risk in sonar sea exercises" By Mark Townsend. The Guardian: Sunday 8 August 2004 "Does Military Sonar Kill Marine Wildlife?" The frequency used in military testing could be harmful to some animals Scientific American: June 10, 2009 "New Navy study says use of sonar, explosives may hurt more marine mammals than once thought." The Washington Post: May 10, 2012

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So you think news about frequent stranding of whales is no different from the "chemtrail" fuss?

Read what I wrote again, please.

Do you think the well-established news media such as Los Angeles Times, The Guardian, and The Washington Post are reporting shams?

I never said it was a sham. I said there is no evidence IN THIS CASE of any naval activity in the area. And you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to show there was. So why, pray tell, are you assuming there was a naval exercise in the area?

Do you think ALL beachings are caused by naval activity? Even the well-documented beachings before sonar was invented?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle (Apr. 16, 2015 - 10:33AM JST):

Of course, you didn't say "it was a sham." But you said: "The internet seethes with a lot of things. Go look at the chemtrail idiots for a prime example." Doesn't it indicate that you think Internet discussions are shams that are propagated by idiots like "chemtrail" believers?

If there's a close correlation between active sonar ranging and whale stranding, then it's natural that you suspect there was active sonar ranging, either intentionally or accidentally, if whale stranding ever occurred.

You insist that I provide evidence to show there were any military exercises that were conducted in the Ibaraki coastal waters on April 10. As you say, there must have been none. But note that the South Korea-U.S. joint drills "Foal Eagle" were going on the Korean Peninsular and in the Sea of Japan. Were JMSD ships watching them idly on the Pacific side? Weren't they activated somehow?

It's my belief that almost all cases of whale beaching today are caused by naval activities. There may be other reasons, such as given by "earth quake" theory or "follow me" theory, but their probability is negligible and ignorable in my thinking.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Doesn't it indicate that you think Internet discussions are shams that are propagated by idiots like "chemtrail" believers?

No, it means that there are MANY that are shams/scams/irrational. Doesn't mean all are. I think that is obvious.

If there's a close correlation between active sonar ranging and whale stranding, then it's natural that you suspect there was active sonar ranging, either intentionally or accidentally, if whale stranding ever occurred.

Only if there were naval activity in the area. Plenty of other potential causes, just look at the literature on the topic.

As you say, there must have been none.

Never said any such thing. I have no idea if there were or not, and neither do you.

But note that the South Korea-U.S. joint drills "Foal Eagle" were going on the Korean Peninsular and in the Sea of Japan. Were JMSD ships watching them idly on the Pacific side? Weren't they activated somehow?

WAIT a minute here. You know of this naval activity in the Sea of Japan, and you suggest that such activity causes cetacean beachings. Where are all the beachings that should have occurred in Korea? Hokuriku? Kyushu? Surely if there is such a strong correlation between this naval activity and beachings there would definitely be reports of beachings near known activity, right?

But there are none. Hmm.

t's my belief that almost all cases of whale beaching today are caused by naval activities.

Belief being the key word here. Not backed up by fact.

but their probability is negligible and ignorable in my thinking.

Still waiting for your explanation of the many, many beaching events recorded prior to the development of sonar. I see you conveniently ignore my previous comment on the topic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle,

You say there were no cases of beaching observed in Korea, Kyushu and Honshu, and so you want to say that there's no connection between active sonar ranging and whale stranding. But suppose there was no pod of whales or dolphins in the area or in the vicinity where naval exercises were conducted?

You also ask me to explain why there were "many, many beaching events recorded prior to the develpment of sonar." OK, but could you show me how many or how often such events occurred prior to the invention of sonar?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You say there were no cases of beaching observed in Korea, Kyushu and Honshu, and so you want to say that there's no connection between active sonar ranging and whale stranding.

That is NOT what I said. I really wish your reading comprehension was better on this point.

1) Dolphin stranding in Ibaraki, no evidence of related naval activity whatsoever. 2) Naval activity noted in Sea of Japan, no dolphin/whale/other stranding

Pretty simple. It's not conclusive, but I have never claimed it was conclusive. You are the one who is claiming all beachings are caused by naval activity, which seems pretty suspicious in light of the fact that there's way way way way more naval activity globally than there is dolphin beaching.

But suppose there was no pod of whales or dolphins in the area or in the vicinity where naval exercises were conducted?

Sea of Japan is famous for dolphins (especially around Noto), so this seems extremely unlikely.

OK, but could you show me how many or how often such events occurred prior to the invention of sonar?

Been recorded for hundreds and hundreds of years, friend. Not a new phenomenon.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You say the Sea of Japan is famous for dolphins, especially around Noto, adding it's extremely unlikely for them not to be near naval exercises. You also say mass beachings of whales have been recorded for hundreds and hundreds of years.

I could take your words for it but don't be ambiguous. How frequently have such incidents (MASS beachings) occurred in the past hundreds and hundreds of years in comparison with recent ones? Be specific and show where you picked up your data.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I could take your words for it but don't be ambiguous. How frequently have such incidents (MASS beachings) occurred in the past hundreds and hundreds of years in comparison with recent ones? Be specific and show where you picked up your data.

No.

I have requested for days that you back up your claims about this beaching. You refuse. So why should I meet your demands?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

You say that "beachings have occurred all the world." So what? Isn't the U.S. Navy engaged in active sonar exercises all over the world?

For the most part, the U.S. Navy works passively to avoid alerting the target that they have been discovered. The amount of active pinging is much less these days than it was back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's - when the technology for passive tracking by surface ASW ships just didn't exist. I would go so far as to say the U.S. does no more active pinging than China, Britain, or France does these days.

But the Internet is seething with reports pointing to another possibility: that the culprit is not an imminent earthquake, parasites or maladies of any kind, but Navies' high-intensity sonar ranging exercises.

The first step in committing an Epic Fail is to assume that just because something is on the internet, it's a fact. I've stated this in another article on this stranding, but I'll put it here as well: I was a U.S. Navy Sonar Technician from 1978 to 1984 so I'm not some clueless internet junkie spouting off with no actual experience on the subject. During that time I had tours of duty in both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Our active sonar actually GATHERED dolphins to the point that their clicks and squeals would interfere with our listening for echoes. When we switched from active to passive, the dolphins meandered off. Unless you're going to claim that dolphins are too stupid to move away from something that's hurting them, I defy you to explain why something that was supposedly hurting them was drawing them CLOSER.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fadamore:

You are asking me to explain a phenomenon which pbobably nobody can: Why dolphins come closer to something that may hurt them. Well, my assumption is that it's their inborn curiosity that drives them into such a behavior. They keep swimming into a danger zone without knowing it, and are trapped and hurt.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How frequently have such incidents (MASS beachings) occurred in the past hundreds and hundreds of years in comparison with recent ones? Be specific and show where you picked up your data.

Nobody has the sort of data related to frequency that you are looking for. A lot fewer people, a lot fewer ways of documenting things and disseminating information even 100 years ago, yet there's tons of documented reports throughout history of mass beachings.

I'm also trying to figure out why I am the one who is supposed to be specific, when you are the one making the baseless claim of this beaching being surely caused by naval activity without presenting even the tiniest bit of evidence to support that hypothesis.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle,

You still keep saying "there's tons of documented reports throughout history of mass beachings." Unless you can present the sources that document such reports, what you are saying is nothing but an empty argument -- shenanigans, that is.

I'm not making claims about this mass stranding of dolphins based on nothing. True, I gathered a lot of information from the Internet. But the information was collected from the established media blogs like The Los Angeles Times, The Guardian, The Washington Post, and Science. I don't think writers in these media are "clueless Internet junkie(s)" as Fadamore (Apr. 17, 2015 - 05:11AM JST) may dub them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Unless you can present the sources that document such reports, what you are saying is nothing but an empty argument

Like your claims of naval activity causing these beachings?

I'm not making claims about this mass stranding of dolphins based on nothing.

Yes, yes you are. You haven't presented one iota of evidence of naval activity in the area of these beachings.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle,

You are right in saying that I haven't presented hard evidence showing a correlation between the recent beaching of more than 150 whales on an Ibaraki beach and active sonar ranging.

But, then, do you say the culprit was an imminent earthquake, parasites or killer whale chasing? If those possibilities are eliminated from the table of culprits, then what remains is nothing but active sonar. Active sonar is determined to be causing most of reacent beachings all over the world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If those possibilities are eliminated from the table of culprits, then what remains is nothing but active sonar.

Or some other as of yet unknown reason.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

How imminent?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How imminent?

In Japan the next one is always imminent.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You are right in saying that I haven't presented hard evidence showing a correlation between the recent beaching of more than 150 whales on an Ibaraki beach and active sonar ranging.

Great! Glad we can get past that, then.

But, then, do you say the culprit was an imminent earthquake, parasites or killer whale chasing?

The first is nonsense, the second or third are as of yet undetermined. It could be one of those.

If those possibilities are eliminated from the table of culprits, then what remains is nothing but active sonar

Plenty of other possibilities, too. It's not really well understood why such incidents occur. Sonar is just one possibility, but it doesn't seem likely without any known activity in the area. Why don't we just let the investigation continue and see what the researchers find?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle,

Yeah, let's see what the researchers will find. But since sonar seems the most probable culprit among other causes, don't you think naval exercises using active sonar must be stopped universally until the real cause is determined?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But since sonar seems the most probable culprit among other causes

I would strongly disagree. Doesn't seem at all likely.

don't you think naval exercises using active sonar must be stopped universally until the real cause is determined?

No, that doesn't seem to be a reasonable conclusion. Just be sure proper mitigation techniques are used.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Pandabelle:

You say, "Just be sure proper mitigation techniques are used." Despite yourself, you intimate beachings in recent years were caused by sonar, because you say that if "mitigation techniques" were used, active sonar would be no problem..

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Despite yourself, you intimate beachings in recent years were caused by sonar,

He never said no beachings where caused by sonar. Please don't put words into others comments that weren't there.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Despite yourself, you intimate beachings in recent years were caused by sonar, because you say that if "mitigation techniques" were used, active sonar would be no problem..

I never said or meant to say anything of the sort.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If I misunderstood you, here's my apology. But could you explain what you mean by "mitigation techniques"?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Looks like it was tied to an earthquake.. Woah.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Looks like it was tied to an earthquake.. Woah.

??? What quake?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites