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Mayor of Tokyo's Shibuya Ward again asks Halloween partygoers to stay away

103 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

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103 Comments
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Wow seriously, invoking the deadly Korea disaster because you don’t want a Halloween Party?

13 ( +38 / -25 )

Sounds like a reasonable request considering what has happened it recent times.

-2 ( +28 / -30 )

Please, do not come to the Shibuya station area for Halloween."

a crowd crush like the one that killed about 160 people celebrating Halloween last year in Seoul's Itaewon district could happen in Shibuya.

Note in that statement "could", Shibuya Halloween already happened for several years without that kind of incident. Local official just go against wish of local people.

banning alcohol consumption near the station from 6 p.m. to 5 a.m. between Oct 27 and Oct 31.

Mark that date and time.

-10 ( +16 / -26 )

If he is so adamant about telling partygoers not to go to Shibuya for Halloween then he can very easily issue an executive order as mayor forbidden drinking alcohol on the streets and without alcohol most won’t turn up! Or just outright ban public gatherings on Halloween through executive orders! The laws were changed in 2020 during the pandemic and now mayors have the power to issue such orders.

-15 ( +6 / -21 )

Shouldn't the business owners in Shibuya be able to put pressure on Mayor Party Pooper.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

The Mayor feels something terrible will happen this year during Halloween in Shibuya! Maybe it’s his sixth sense so he is being cautious. Stay safe if you are planning to go out there and don’t blame others if something sinister does happen since every one is responsible for their own actions. You choose to go there at your own risk!

-14 ( +9 / -23 )

Maybe the spooks and ghouls have grown up and lost their innocence

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Shouldn't the business owners in Shibuya be able to put pressure on Mayor Party Pooper.

Masked loiterers are not big spenders.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

I fully agree with the commenter that is appalled by the invocation of the tragedy in Incheon. I think it’s disgusting to capitalise on a tragic accident to push the same old agenda they’ve been pushing for years! They pushed it before Incheon, they pushed it even before a few local idiots decided to flip a truck. They’ve never liked the Halloween party - it has nothing to do with public safety.

Japan is perfectly capable of having large gatherings without significant incident and you don’t have to look any further than Shibuya Halloweens prior to 2018 and every Halloween since.

This is all about the fact that it’s a large, organic event that the people decided they wanted to get together and make happen rather than something that was officially sanctioned. If the powers that be were smart, they could make some money from it, make it safe and clean etc, but instead they’d rather crush it. If I’m being brutally honest, I think it’s because people mostly street drink rather than go bars and spend 1000 per drink, and the entertainment industry is probably quite a powerful lobby in Shibuya ward

I get that it can be annoying for some people to see large crowds enjoying themselves, but if throngs of revellers (and the attendant noise and mess) aren’t your thing, I’ve got some bad news for you about Shibuya on any given Saturday night of the year!

I used to go to Shibuya during Halloween and went many years in a row. All I saw was people having a good time! It’s essentially harmless and I’m glad that Japan is a free country so people will always have the right to congregate. I hope they continue to do so.

10 ( +21 / -11 )

Thank goodness this mayor is not in charge of Osaka or Kyoto as the Tenjin Festival and Gion Matsuri would never go ahead. They were absolutely packed this year with happy and some cases clearly intoxicated locals but both events went off without a hitch due to competent police and officials competently controlling the movement and behavior of people.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

If it were a Japanese custom it would be a matsuri and it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow - because it would be better planned.

Also in Japan we dknt really have a tradition of going party nuts on a certain date. New Years is pretty tame, kidz don’t go nuts on summer break either.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Why would anyone want to go to Shibuya anyway? It stinks like poo. Plus, the mayor doesn’t look like too friendly of a fellow anyway.

-7 ( +11 / -18 )

He's done what all government agency's do when they want to get things done. He's made a poster!

How about he does his job and take responsibility for the event that the area has become known for. Provide toilets, places to put rubbish and measures to prevent overcrowding.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

@Jim

If he is so adamant about telling partygoers not to go to Shibuya for Halloween then he can very easily issue an executive order as mayor forbidden drinking alcohol on the streets and without alcohol most won’t turn up! 

Last sentence of article:

Shibuya [has] a city ordinance banning alcohol consumption near the station from 6 p.m. to 5 a.m. between Oct 27 and Oct 31.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Have them move location.

One example- Saitama Shintoshin Station up in Saitama- could probably handle a party of that size better than Shibuya can. There is far more space around that station area and is very accessible to people from Tokyo and other places.

That's just one example. If the mayor of Shibuya doesn't want the business, the party should move on and send their business somewhere else.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

This is all about the fact that it’s a large, organic event that the people decided they wanted to get together and make happen rather than something that was officially sanctioned. If the powers that be were smart, they could make some money from it, make it safe and clean etc, but instead they’d rather crush it

Very much. They gather up to a million people for summer fireworks and everything is pretty well organized.

16 ( +18 / -2 )

Classic illustration of Japan's aging population.

Why not make this into a proper festival event including Yoyogi Park?

10 ( +21 / -11 )

Ken Hasebe, the mayor of Tokyo's Shibuya Ward, by his own ambition is simply incapable, or incompetent to fully carry out, take on the duty’s, challenges of his office.

This pandemic has devastated Japan hospitality industries, Halloween events of this nature offer   Tokyo's Shibuya Ward the opportunities, if managed in a coherent and competent manner allowing these traders much needed recuperative revenue streams.

Yet Hasebe, shameful scare mongering, his insinuation that a SK tragedy that claimed the lives of 150 people, officially attributed to the district warren of severely steep sloping twisting alleyways on either side of a main road.

Plus, a suggested failure of event management to fully prepare for such an eventuality, could in any respect present the reasoning that such an occurrence could be replicated in Tokyo’s Shibuya Ward is simply a gross misrepresentation of the facts to incite/deliberately frighten people.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

No more jammed than every Japanese train and station at every commute, every shrine at New Year and other festivals and all transport at Golden Week.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

They should just vote Hasebe out! What Shibuya Ward needs is a new mayor!!

9 ( +12 / -3 )

I'm already booked for the event. Looking forward to it!

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Mayor of Tokyo's Shibuya Ward again asks Halloween partygoers to stay away

I guess then Mayor Hasebe can declare "Mission Accomplished."

He got dentsu or some other firm to design and print up his soon to be landfill clogging precious little posters and signs and flyers.

When people still come and flood the streets in a few weeks there will be many elderly gentlemen in fluorescent vests or marching band uniforms along with police hectoring the costume wearers or anybody who looks like they may be drinking ( lots of crossed X arms and barked No no no to the foreigners. )

A fatal accident like Itaewon can happen here any time,” he said.

If it can happen anytime shutdown anyplace that gets crowded 24/7. Safety Japan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Do something official in Yoyogi park with stalls and activities, would be great for the local businesses and the "party" would be in a big area.

16 ( +21 / -5 )

I usually don't agree with politicians, but I 100% support him on this matter. I am nothing against Halloween parties, I used to go to these kinds of parties before, too. But, there is a valid reason why the mayor made this decision, and that's because, in previous years, the crowds were outrageous. They were destroying private properties, people getting hurt, and most of all, they left rubbish and puke all over the streets. And who's cleaning those messes? (I wish the World Cup litter-picking Japanese fans could do the same in Shibuya after Halloween). Remember what happened to Seoul last year? Should we wait for a tragedy like that until we finally realize to take action? Please don't blame the mayor for making this decision; it's his job to keep peace and order in his city. Blame those irresponsible party animals for creating this mess. Why not just do it indoors, like a club or anywhere private where partygoers can do whatever they want, not in the public streets.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Yoyogi Park.....

Spacious city park in Shibuya

https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3034_002.html

Great proposal, why not combine a number of events, so to manage, spread out the festival/s, to relieve congestion?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Is there any more reason than to go? Didn’t know about it until last month when he first asked. Before I thought it was the yamanote line party. Sounds like Shibuya is the place to be.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Most of the crowding and discomfort is caused by the bazillion Police all screaming in your ear with megaphones as you just want to get to the station.

why not actually ‘organize’ a street party and cut the cops by about 80%

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Sakurasaki

Note in that statement "could", Shibuya Halloween already happened for several years without that kind of incident. Local official just go against wish of local people.

You are wrong, around 2018 and 2019, the aftermath of Halloween street gathering in Shibuya were all over the news because its getting worse every year until the pandemic . There was one incident when party goers turned a delivery truck upside down. It was like a riot and the mess that people leave behind are terrible. Will you clean up for those? Do the parties indoors not in public. Yes the locals don’t want it, people who party in Shibuya are not the local residents. They are all from different places and just visiting for fun.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Jim...

an executive order as mayor forbidden drinking alcohol on the streets and without alcohol most won’t turn up!

The ban covers a small geographic area and only conbinis. A short walk up the road and alcohol is freely available. Actually, a few were selling anyway last year.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I watched a clip from ANN in which they were interviewing foreigners who were saying that they didn't think the Halloween gatherings are a problem - obviously the YouTube comments from Japanese users were incredibly hateful and xenophobic. Obviously nobody mentioned the fact that the majority of Halloween related crimes in Shibuya are committed by Japanese people. The media here is so effective at stoking paranoia and resentment it's scary. Even where I work, a ban on all Halloween related conversation has been put into place. This was specifically brought up to me, totally unwarranted.

Even more ominous is the larger trend here. One of the things the report pointed out is that there is always trash in Shibuya, a problem that would honestly easily be alleviated by having, you know, public trash cans. The implication is that since Shibuya is one of the few places in Japan foreign residents really feel comfortable, we are to blame for the trash problem. This is deeply concerning. Whether it is related to Halloween, Covid, overcrowding in Kyoto or at Mt Fuji, they always seem to be blaming us.

I know there are some individuals that have come to Japan to cause problems and get attention online. That behavior should be condemned. But I am growing fed up with all the endless power harassment directed at us.

-8 ( +12 / -20 )

Spinningplates

why not actually ‘organize’ a street party and cut the cops by about 80%

And why would the government do that? Who’s gonna pay for the costs? Tax money should be used for more important things than spoiling irresponsible party animals. Let private entities do that and do the parties in private premises. The cops are just doing their jobs to control the crowd.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Tuxedomichael

They should just vote Hasebe out! What Shibuya Ward needs is a new mayor!!

vote him out for not spoiling irresponsible party people? That sounds so childish. its his job to maintain order in his city and avoid further disasters. Its not his role to irresponsible accommodate party people.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Itsonlyrockandroll

Yoyogi Park.....

i totally agree, just gather in one place that doesn’t cause disturbance and troubles to the public. And Yoyogi park is indeed the best place for that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Last time I looked this wasn't a totalitarian state, people are free to go where they want.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

I thought Shibuya police were super proud of having such amazing crowd control skills. They've done great during soccer games and other events. Why not getting them them ready for Halloween then, instead of trying to wash his hands.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Wolfshire

obviously the YouTube comments from Japanese users were incredibly hateful and xenophobic. Obviously nobody mentioned the fact that the majority of Halloween related crimes in Shibuya are committed by Japanese people. The media here is so effective at stoking paranoia and resentment it's scary. Even where I work, a ban on all Halloween related conversation has been put into place. This was specifically brought up to me, totally unwarranted. 

I dont think majority of the people who

are against this Halloween parties on the streets of Shibuya are blaming foreigners. Of course Japanese xenophobes will

always blame foreigners in whatever contents they do. But most people are aware that majority of the troublemakers here are the young immature Japanese people.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

People never learn ! No use reminding them!

They are like lemmings crowding suicidically together to die together!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

I am sad to see the comments here from posters who underestimate the dangers of large crowds. Should we wait until a tragedy happens then blame the officials? Because that is what will eventually happen. Both the tragedy and the incorrect blame.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I watched a clip from ANN in which they were interviewing foreigners who were saying that they didn't think the Halloween gatherings are a problem - obviously the YouTube comments from Japanese users were incredibly hateful and xenophobic. Obviously nobody mentioned the fact that the majority of Halloween related crimes in Shibuya are committed by Japanese people. The media here is so effective at stoking paranoia and resentment it's scary. Even where I work, a ban on all Halloween related conversation has been put into place. This was specifically brought up to me, totally unwarranted.

Even more ominous is the larger trend here. One of the things the report pointed out is that there is always trash in Shibuya, a problem that would honestly easily be alleviated by having, you know, public trash cans. The implication is that since Shibuya is one of the few places in Japan foreign residents really feel comfortable, we are to blame for the trash problem. This is deeply concerning. Whether it is related to Halloween, Covid, overcrowding in Kyoto or at Mt Fuji, they always seem to be blaming us.

I know there are some individuals that have come to Japan to cause problems and get attention online. That behavior should be condemned. But I am growing fed up with all the endless power harassment directed at us.

Mate, this is one of the best posts I have read in weeks, maybe months. Hat off to you sir.

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

Tsumaranai Japan.

This mayor is one of the most incompetent mayors from all Japan, and there are quite a few.

In any other country the Mayors cannot wait for those kind of holidays, in order to capitalize on the money making opportunities, free advertisement, etc

As previous posters said, the Tokyo governor, should make this a big event somewhere in a large park, and capitalize big time on this. Too bad she also has ZERO management and business mind skills.

Japan is in desperately in need of money, but it's the moments like this, when big profits can be made, that makes you scratch your head over and over again, because of the incompetence of leading parties...

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Yet Hasebe, shameful scare mongering, his insinuation that a SK tragedy that claimed the lives of 150 people, officially attributed to the district warren of severely steep sloping twisting alleyways on either side of a main road.

You are absolutely right on it. The streets and alleyways in Shibuya are much wider than those in Itaewon.

I was watching a YouTuber live streaming in Shibuya at Halloween last year. I do not feel the crowd is bigger than usual (I do not live in Japan but have been to Shibuya while holidaying in Japan a few times. It is Shibuya where the world famous scramble crossing locates. I believe its streets are usually packed with people.)

There are lots of police there. They will use their megaphone to move people on.

A few years ago, I was waiting for the new year count down and decided to watched the internet live streaming at the scramble crossing in Shibuya. I was shocked to see they have stopped the traffic and let a sea of people stood at the crossing for the count down. That was before the pandemic.

So New Year gathering is fine but Halloween is not?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

They should just vote Hasebe out! What Shibuya Ward needs is a new mayor!!

Easy to say but most voters are probably 60 years old and over and I doubt they want to preserve Shibuya's Halloween tradition.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Yes, please don't come to Shibuya !

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

If you aren't going to do your job as mayor and ensure the safety of the public without going into draconian measures, I ask you to step away from the mayor seat.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

the COVID-19 pandemic could cause a disaster

according to Japan GOV, COVID-19- has been declassified and is not a danger anymore.

the incoherence shows that no trust needs to be given.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Closing Shibuya station on the day would lessen crowds, right mayor?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The 'mayor' doubles down on his kill-joy message and sentiments, creating an added layer of naughtiness and excitement around the event. They will come in defiance and you will have a public show of how much the youth choose to respect and listen to their leadership class. Initiating a public policy designed to fail, inspirational stuff.

If you aren't going to do your job as mayor and ensure the safety of the public without going into draconian measures, I ask you to step away from the mayor seat.

100% agree. Turn the crowds into something special and celebrate it. There's no way it cant be done, unless of course you have zero vision.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Unbelievable commenters. You would rather prioritize parties over safety. It's not even a problem of competency. Why wait for the disaster when you can prevent one? you wanna have your fun and guess who's gonna blame the government for not doing a better job. Yes it's you. All fun no accountability.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Shibuya is one of the few places in Japan foreign residents really feel comfortable

I honestly can't see the appeal of Shibuya at all. I pass through it occasionally. And maybe do the odd message there at Prestia, but I avoid the place.

If Halloween got to happen it best to keep it there in Shibuya and not in my nice leafy part of Edo.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Wow seriously, invoking the deadly Korea disaster because you don’t want a Halloween Party?

It is extremely relevant, the question is not wanting or not the event but the amount of effort and resources that are necessary to do it in a safe way. The tragedy of itaewon was preventable and the deep incompetence of the authorities is what caused it. At least in this case this is being considered from now, it is unlikely that the event will be completely cancelled, even with the mayor declarations, but if it can be controlled more easily and scaled down for subsequent years the risk of a similar tragedy would also be reduced very importantly.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

it is unlikely that the event will be completely cancelled

Correction: it is impossible to cancel. Shibuya Halloween is not an event put on by the ward, nor is it one that is organized by any one group or official organization. I'm not aware of the full history, perhaps that was the case in the past, but it is not now. Shibuya Halloween exists because individuals want to go to Shibuya on Halloween. These are public roads, public sidewalks, public alleys, public pedestrian areas - paid with people's taxes. In that sense, it truly is a grassroots things, and one that can never be truly tempered or controlled.

That is unless one believes in a police state - I'm not sure where your personal preferences lay. I am opposed to a dystopian vision for Japan in which armed patrols shut down the entire area and arrest anyone in costume or appearing to be intoxicated.

Imagine, hypothetically, and this is quite plausible, someone who actually lives in Shibuya and wants to celebrate Halloween in cosplay. Are they to be treated as unwanted invaders in an area they live in?

Japan would be wise not to tread on freedom of expression and/or assembly.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Still a free country so good luck

5 ( +6 / -1 )

He's gone mental - digressing from this celebratory function that most revere annually.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

They should just create a big event at Yoyogi Park. Have lots of portable toilets, food trucks etc.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

You choose to go there at your own risk!

Of course, no-one will stop anyone from going to Shibuya. The 159 kids squished to death in South Korea went there at their own risk, but that is little consolation for the parents who lost their children...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

They should just create a big event at Yoyogi Park. Have lots of portable toilets, food trucks etc.

They used to do that in Tachikawa before Corona. Called まんぱく. It was great

https://manpaku.jp/

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So many people complaining here who aren't going to Shibuya on Halloween anyway. I have been there twice, and the congestion was horrible, especially around Hachiko, and it took forever for passersby to wade through the crowd to get into Shibuya Station. I don't blame the mayor for trying to trim the crowds.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

If you have been to both places you know he is just using that disaster as an excuse to get rid of an annoyance. You would need millions and millions of people to get the same crushing effect in Shibuya as they had in Itaewon, the amount of space you have in Shibuya compared to Itaewon is greatly different, and even then it could easily be avoided by having staff in place directing people.

It won't work just telling people not to come, create an alternative. Young people don't just give up on stuff like this, they will gather somewhere.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Sitting on dirty streets all night with no food, drinks, music, chairs, etc. Many businesses closed. Sales of alcohol stopped. Shops and businesses vandalized and damaged. Filthy trash everywhere. Meanwhile there are tons of organized events that provide all the above. But some reserve the right to have a miserable time.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

You promote Shibuya as having busiest crossing in the world and welcoming then you tell people not to come. Sorry Mr. Mayor, Halloween is not an official festival so can't close it down. People are gonna turn up, including loads of foreigners. And many of them will be drunk and drink. Get a life and stop the fear mongering and foreigner blaming and shaming. And install some rubbish bins, man.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

There always be people who will gather despite the orders - banning is not a solution ! The proper way to do it due to a popular demand is simply close all roads after 4pm! I always wondered why cars are allowed during such times, New Year included!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Funny how I basically avoided the place most of the time I lived in Tokyo (around Halloween)

Pass

Hello Roppongi

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

lis to your authority and do not go trick or treating in Shibuya instead go to Roppongi or Kabukicho in Shinjuku

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Scaring people for Halloween before Halloween.

He is just playing a trick ahead of time using his mayor costume;)

If any specific blocking obstacle or reducing width is existing in any given passage , remove it. Problem solved.

If design rules are respected, whatever crowd mass you get, crowd can move.

Those are the words from a former specialist in panic risks.

The only risk that should be a concern is a terrorist attack, or alike (large fireworks suddenly happening). But that should be an everyday concern.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The more he persists with this rubbish the more people are going to go to Shibuya for Halloween just to P him off.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Sitting on dirty streets all night with no food, drinks, music, chairs, etc. Many businesses closed. Sales of alcohol stopped. Shops and businesses vandalized and damaged. Filthy trash everywhere. Meanwhile there are tons of organized events that provide all the above. But some reserve the right to have a miserable time.

The majority go for the eye candy. If zombies are you thing, enjoy. I prefer the comfort of my home on Halloween. I don't need titillation. . .

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"What happened in Itaewon could happen here!"

Why? Because it's also Halloween? Very strange logic. It should apply to all mass gatherings, surely. I don't see any calls to cancel fireworks, music festivals, Odoris, New Years Countdowns, crowded shrines on New Years Day etc though. Those are authorised fun.

Fact is that Shibuya has been having these parties for years and nothing that bad has happened except for the one truck incident. As unpleasant as it was for whoever owned the truck, no one got hurt. I think it's time to look into the real reason the authorities don't like the Shibuya Halloween gathering.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Wow seriously, invoking the deadly Korea disaster because you don’t want a Halloween Party?

An irrational response. There is no relation with what happened in Korea.

The environment, the circumstances, the demographics.

The Itaewon incident was an unfortunate, unforeseeable event.

The totality of the circumstances would never be replicated in Shibuya.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

An irrational response.

I disagree. If I were mayor, I wouldn't want the risk of anything horrific happening on my watch. Especially after seeing what could happen.

"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." said Murphy.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Anonymist

Why? Because it's also Halloween? Very strange logic. It should apply to all mass gatherings, surely. I don't see any calls to cancel fireworks, music festivals, Odoris, New Years Countdowns, crowded shrines on New Years Day etc though. Those are authorised fun.

So you will wait for it to happen to Shibuya too before taking actions? Its easy for you to say because you are not gonna be responsible for property damage and in case tragedy occurs. Ive been living in Tokyo for almost 20 years, it wasn’t that crazy before and it is getting worse every year because of the social media. The point is, the streets are public property, it is not a place to party, there are parks and clubs where people can do their halloween parties why not do it there than disrupting the city because kids just want to have fun? Plus, it wasn’t really forbidden before until the crowd got out of control. So blame the party goers, the officials are just doing their jobs.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Anonymist

About the fireworks display. They do it in designated areas like rivers and parks. Not in busy traffic and business district.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well, the kids might be celebrating in other places ie their home towns etc if the self-centered Tokyo politicians spent some national tax money on revitalizing regions outside Tokyo?

The don’t so expect overcrowding in Tokyo…

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

It's is sad he is using the itawaem tragedy as a cover.

I would say with security etc Shibuya will be an awful place to try and enjoy Halloween.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

 Shibuya city Mayor Ken Hasebe said at a news conference Thursday. “Please, do not come to the Shibuya station area for Halloween."

Wow! Another article about the mayor of Shibuya CITY asking people living in other cities in Tokyo prefecture and the surrounding prefectures to no converge on their CITY during Halloween.

Where is this Tokyo city that no longer exists?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Halloween is not a tradition in Japan. I’ve heard that foreigners dressed up in scary costumes and yelled at Japanese on the Yamanote line in the past.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Why? Because it's also Halloween? Very strange logic. It should apply to all mass gatherings, surely.

Because it is an event in a public space not designed for that purpose, specially if the authority is not interested in the investment necessary to guarantee the safety of the people that assit.

I don't see any calls to cancel fireworks, music festivals, Odoris, New Years Countdowns, crowded shrines on New Years Day etc though. Those are authorised fun.

That would be because the benefits obtained from those events outweight the costs necessary for safeguarding the participants, for this specific case the Mayor do not see enough benefits to assume the responsibility (and the costs) so he is asking the people not to come.

An irrational response. There is no relation with what happened in Korea.

Of course there is, it is an public event that was expected to include a very large number of people and that would require a huge investment in order to properly secure.

The Itaewon incident was an unfortunate, unforeseeable event.

On the contrary, the experts coincide in that it was perfectly foreseeable, predictable that a tragedy could happen,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/how-do-crowd-crushes-happen-stampede-myth-what-happened-in-the-seoul-itaewon-halloween-crush

Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoul

The totality of the circumstances would never be replicated in Shibuya.

As long as the authorities act beforehand, which is what the Mayor is doing by asking people not to attend,

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I’ve heard that foreigners dressed up in scary costumes and yelled at Japanese on the Yamanote line in the past.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/tokyos-halloween-subway-parties-from-the-90s-were-mysterious-boozy-and-borderline-illegal

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Because it is an event in a public space not designed for that purpose,

If you have ever been to Japan, you would see it is not just designed for that purpose, it is used for that purpose on a daily basis.

On the contrary, the experts coincide in that it was perfectly foreseeable, predictable that a tragedy could happen,

I foresee rain.....two days ago.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Avoid crowd crush potential areas. Such areas should be patrolled.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Shibuya scramble crossing is not designed for holding events such as the Halloween party, nor the usual traffic of the zone can be said to be even slightly similar to what is observed in that day. This is easy to confirm looking at the serious amount of security that has been necessary in previous years. This is because problems like what happened in the itaewon Halloween crush could possible happen also in Shibuya if the security was not provided, preventing easily foreseeable problems is precisely one of the responsibilities of the authorities.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Regarding alcohol: The main problem is Japanese cannot handle alcohol well. Many people just drink to get really drunk.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What? Go to Shibuya District during Halloween?

Do people in Tokio and Japanese cities want to be stamped to death by pointed high heels?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

“scramble crossing”

That term is written above many intersections all over Japan.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Referring to the Korean disaster is misguided and tasteless. That was an L-shaped street, Shibuya is a completely different geometry. Also I do not see how he can ask people a) not to go to Shibuya and b) not to dress strangely.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japantime

Halloween is not a tradition in Japan.

It has become one. Do you live here?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Halloween is not a tradition in Japan

Halloween is an autumn festival, and its patterns have changed and spread in various places. Autumn festivals are common in Japan and around the world - celebrate the harvest, scare away the nasties, have a wild time.

https://www.robertburns.org/works/74.shtml

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Foreign celebration with pagan origins. Nothing good comes out of it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Foreign celebration with pagan origins. Nothing good comes out of it.

So is Christmas/Saturnalia, but people celebrate it around the world

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As long as the authorities are prepared and positioned in the right places, it should be fine

New Year's Eve around the world have crowds of people, and nothing happens

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Apparently they are freaked out because a lot of people died in Korea in a rush during Halloween last year:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63456066

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

lostrune2: "As long as the authorities are prepared and positioned in the right places, it should be fine"

to do what? Hallowe'en is not illegal, nor is drinking in the street, or dressing up. If people want to enter the private train/subway systems to get there and the companies say "No," they have that right. The mayor has no right to enforce any restrictions on people walking around and having fun. If so, well, I daresay that bonenkai season should be canceled flat-out, or just on a daily basis the oyaji who go drinking and puke all over the place, cause fights, and what not, should be asked to no longer partake in drinking in that area. Won't happen.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Shibuya should close the streets and have a matsuri. With the city running things, safety can be planned for. Sanitation and ports-potties.

Also, they could have some bands. Halloween costume contests. Street food. It would be an awesome event. Tourists would love it.

Another option would be Yoyogi park.

The point being that there are a options besides just trying to shut it down.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The mayor of Tokyo's Shibuya Ward, a shopping and entertainment district, is asking Halloween domestic and foreign revelers not to visit, fearing that a large number of partygoers following the COVID-19 pandemic could cause a disaster similar to last year's fatal crowd surge in South Korea's capital.

Silly mayor. He forgot the original reason why he was whining about Halloween?

The Itaewon disaster was not foreseeable, and the geography of where it happened is not replicated in Shibuya.

The irrationality is that this mayor is saying, Oh, there was a disaster on Halloween in Korea, there could be a disaster on Halloween in Japan. Because Halloween is the same holiday.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@gogogo, you should know by now common sense, and politics never match!

your right, move it to a large park, more room less chance of road accidents, get street venors to attend, police can keep an eye out for stupid behaviour, the council could hire tempory toilets and waste bins, this was every one is happy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Itaewon disaster was not foreseeable, and the geography of where it happened is not replicated in Shibuya.

On the contrary, the experts coincide in that it was perfectly foreseeable, predictable that a tragedy could happen, this is already proved with a reference of many that say the same

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/how-do-crowd-crushes-happen-stampede-myth-what-happened-in-the-seoul-itaewon-halloween-crush

Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoul

Shibuya on the other hand at least provides the necessary security to avoid the same since there is no reason why something similar could not happen.

The irrationality is that this mayor is saying, Oh, there was a disaster on Halloween in Korea, there could be a disaster on Halloween in Japan. Because Halloween is the same holiday.

The irrationality of the claim is why you are the only one making it, the actual argument is that such an event with huge multitudes always has the risk of going out of control an produce fatal victims, something that requires action from the authorities to be prevented.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

On the contrary, the experts coincide in that it was perfectly foreseeable, predictable that a tragedy could happen, this is already proved with a reference of many that say the same

Your own source doesn't even predict this will happen in Shibuya.

This type of partying has been taking place for more than 30 years.

The irrationality of the claim is why you are the only one making it, the actual argument is that such an event with huge multitudes always has the risk of going out of control an produce fatal victims, something that requires action from the authorities to be prevented.

Your non-sequitur is illogical. The mayor is basically saying something similar to what happened in Itaewon is likely to happen in Shibuya because his favorite zodiac sign dictates so.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Your own source doesn't even predict this will happen in Shibuya.

The point is that this is a predictable outcome for uncontrolled events with multitudes, unless you can argue how this is impossible in Shibuya (specially with an expert saying so) then the argument is still valid and proves the need of control and safety measures, such as the ones that have been deployed in previous years.

Your non-sequitur is illogical

That is not what "non-sequitur" means, you made a claim that was irrational and called it so, but pretended other people made that claim without it being the case, the logic stands, instead of arguing the claim actually made you made up another that has no logic and refuted it, which means the actual argument is still valid and you just disproved something only you have said.

The mayor is basically saying something similar to what happened in Itaewon is likely to happen in Shibuya because his favorite zodiac sign dictates so.

Again, this claim comes only from you, the mayor have not "basically" made this irrational claim, only you did.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

the actual argument is that such an event with huge multitudes always has the risk of going out of control an produce fatal victims, something that requires action from the authorities to be prevented.

Your non-sequitur is illogical.

How is that a non-sequitur? It's literally something that has happened multiple times, and even in Japan, so the 'risk of going out of control and produce fatal victims' is not a non-sequitur..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If the government were smart, they would find a way to monetize it

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The point is that this is a predictable outcome for uncontrolled events with multitudes, unless you can argue how this is impossible in Shibuya (specially with an expert saying so) then the argument is still valid and proves the need of control and safety measures, such as the ones that have been deployed in previous years.

Your source does not discuss Shibuya. The authors have never been to Shibuya.

And the fact that this event has been held in Shibuya for more than 30 years provides more basis for making a determination of its safety as opposed to an event held in a different country, under totally different circumstances.

Here's a prediction--no, a promise--Nothing will happen in Shibuya on Halloween this year even remotely close to the Itaewon disaster.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The source clearly explain why these kind of events can complicate thanks to the huge amount of participants, none of the factors discussed apply to any single location.

And the fact that this event has been held in Shibuya for more than 30 years provides more basis for making a determination of its safety as opposed to an event held in a different country

The event has not been held at the huge scale it was expected even for 10 years, much less for 30, and it has always been supported by personnel to ensure a degree of security, precisely because it is foreseeable that not doing it could have serious consequences, the fact that the even requires this proves the opposite of the point you tried to make.

Here's a prediction--no, a promise--Nothing will happen in Shibuya on Halloween this year even remotely close to the Itaewon disaster.

Because the authorities are not negligent and irresponsible, so they are preparing for it, including a serious call for people not to go Shibuya. Again, the foreseeable consequences of the event are what justify the calls made by the Mayor that can't simply ignore the possibility and let people go without doing anything about it.

At least now you understand what a "non-sequitur" is and how this do not apply to arguments that refute the point you wanted to make.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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