New law a big step toward commercial whaling, Japanese officials say

mmwkdwJuly 10 09:40 pm JSTWhaling is wrong, and the arguments being proposed by the J. Govt are unfactual.

"Whaling" per se is neither right nor wrong. Whaling for endangered species is wrong. for non-endangered species not really. Since the J-govt wants to see whale stocks increased enough to revive commercial whaling, there's no incentive to propose "unfactual" arguments.

Whaling is wrong, and the arguments being proposed by the J. Govt are unfactual.

RiskyMosaicToday 10:00 am JSTOssan

The inuit tribes carry on "Traditional Hunting" as designated by the IWC but today they use powerboats and carry off whale meat on snowmobiles

Two dozen or so whales off their own coast to feed and provide for entire communities versus slaughtering hundreds of whales yearly to freeze the meat in warehouses due to lack of demand for it. Yeah, exactly the same.

Yes exactly the same. The use of modern machinery and methods by any whaling group does not negate the fact that Whaling and consumption of whales is a "tradition" if that group have been doing it for a very long time. The scope of the whaling or numbers are irrelevant to the issue.

I'd rather remain inane than consume sentient beings. Endangered or otherwise.

The original comment said the change of heart was because of the endangered status. When it is pointed out that the status is only an issue with some species, not including the Minke, the issue suddenly changes to sentience. Which one is it and if it is sentience then why ever bring up endangered status?

That's really inane

I'd rather remain inane than consume sentient beings. Endangered or otherwise.

That's really inane. "Whales" aren't endangered. Some species are and some species aren't. Minkes are specifically mentioned in the article.

Out of curiosity I'm going to ask which species are you concerned about?

Whales. That's what the article is about.

The hunting of whales was banned by the IWC decades ago.

First, that only applies to IWC members, currently less than 1/2 the world's countries. Second, the IWC is a voluntary organization and any member can leave whenever they want. Lastly it was a temporary moratorium not a ban, and it was suppose to be reviewed periodically, reviews that the IWC has never done.

But it invested billions in the IWC

What? How do you invest in the IWC and what kind of return do you get on that investment?

Swift_JusticeToday 07:59 pm JSTOssan:

*The meat ends up on store shelves, even though most Japanese no longer eat *it.

(Emphasis added.)

It was part of Japanese culture, but not any longer.

Sure it is. You can find whale meat in many fish markets. There's a shop that fries up whale in the outside part of Tsukiji. You can buy a Whale meat Kara-age bento at the Nagasaki train station. I know because I've done both. That the consumption of whale meat as well as availability is lower now that it used to be is is not evidence that "it's no longer eaten". Most Americans don't eat rattlesakes. Even most French don't eat grenouille. Doesn't mean they are simply "no longer eaten".

Swift_JusticeToday 08:03 pm JSTSiebold's observation was that whale meat was wifely eaten, not that it was eaten in absolutely every prefecture, which incidentally did not exist until 1868. Obviously landocked regions would be less likely to regularly eat anything that comes from the sea.

The poster meant records of current whale consumption.

Doesn't matter. That a certain food is not eaten in every square inch of a country is not evidence that there is no tradition of eating that food in that country. If we used that reasoning a great many foods in many countries would not be traditional.

SevenseasToday 11:53 am JSTOssan

The "tradition" is of hunting

In small boats, in their own waters.

The "tradition" is of hunting and eating whales. Not what kind of boat or location. The inuit tribes carry on "Traditional Hunting" as designated by the IWC but today they use powerboats and carry off whale meat on snowmobiles. No one is arguing that "it's not traditional" unless they use skin covered kayaks, bone tipped harpoons and carry off the whale meat only on dog sleds.

and consuming whales

As opposed to 'researching' whales.

Japan is not alone in consuming whales. Norway and Iceland do as well. There's nothing wrong with any country that has a tradition of consuming whales. Furthernore IWC ARtcle 8 under which Scientific Whaling is authorized REQUIRES the meat to be consumed, so as not to be wasted,

These practices have been abandoned for social and/or moral reasons. Hunting and eating non-endangered whales doesn't fall into the same category

From the article:

international protests

By those who are strongly anti-whaling

the International Court of Justice ruled that Japan should halt Antarctic whaling.

The ICJ ruled that the JARPAII plan at the time did not meet the standards of Scientific Whaling and laid out the shortcomings. Japan then corrected those aspects and continues with Scientific Whaling which no country has brought to the ICJ.

an international whaling moratorium began

To correct the devastating toll on global whale populations inflicted predominantly by the very nations that are now anti-whaling. The "Moratorium" was supposed to be reviewed but that has been continuously obstructed by the anti-whaling faction in the IWC.

While morally greyer, still a moral argument.

It's only a "moral" issue if you do not consider whales on the same level of all the other animals that we kill and eat. The arguments for continuing to preserve certain whale species are sound, whereas for some species they are not. The position that all whales should not be killed for any reason is not scientifically based, but on erroneous information and/or emotional reasons.

paradoxboxToday 11:44 am JSTWhaling doesn't fall under the same category of needing to be abandoned due to social or moral reasons?Please explain that statement to me.

It's as simple as the examples given. Killing people, self or others is on a different level than killing animals and eating them. Every country in the world does that.

It would seem that most countries around the world HAVE stopped whaling for moral and social reasons. Japan continues to break the laws created to prevent it from whaling. The laws Japan creates regarding the issue, it continues to skirt around.

Wrong. The world's whale populations were decimated by western nations that indiscriminantly hunted whales globally down to near extinction. THAT is why the IWC, an organization created to REGULATE THE WHALING INDUSTRY passed a moratorium on commercial whaling. There was never any "moral" issue unless the entire world was vegetarian. The "social" issue was created following the "save the whales" trend where now some people can't tell the difference between whales and people.

Will they cut the tax payer subsidies ? I hope so...

Siebold's observation was that whale meat was wifely eaten, not that it was eaten in absolutely every prefecture, which incidentally did not exist until 1868. Obviously landocked regions would be less likely to regularly eat anything that comes from the sea.

The poster meant records of current whale consumption.

Ossan:

Japan has long maintained that most whale species are not endangered and that eating whale is part of its culture.

(Emphasis added.)

But:

*The meat ends up on store shelves, even though most Japanese no longer eat *it.

(Emphasis added.)

It was part of Japanese culture, but not any longer.

@YubaruToday 07:13 am JST

Also, if the only way the industry can survive is by getting government subsidies, then I say get rid of it. If Japanese were so hot on eating whale meat, the industry could easily survive on it's own. But it can't, because people really don't like whale, not to mention that it isn't all that healthy either.

I actually agree with this sentiment and is one of the reasons why the West should not have pressured Japan on the point and should have just let the moratorium (moratoriums are not supposed to be permabans) die when it expired. It would have prevented this whole thing from getting "cultural" or "national".

but my concerns for the species now override any culinary desires.

Out of curiosity I'm going to ask which species are you concerned about?

Good quote, but I don't think in 1823 the Japanese were sailing all the way to Antarctica to get their whales. Rather, they were sticking to their own waters, not pillaging a shared global resource an ocean away.

I don't think in 1823 the Australians were sailing to the corners of the Indian Ocean to get their tuna, either. But they are now.

Most countries only gave up whaling after a substitute for whale oil and bone was found.

Nothing to do with their Intelligence, etc also look into whaling methods used 150yrs ago.

Bout the same as today.

Korea wants to resume whaling, buying from Japan now.

My feeling is this, while it is true that many whale species are abundant, why should Japan have the sole right to hunt them? This 'resource' was created by over 150 countries who gave up commercial whaling.

Wish I could double/triple like this comment.

Japan should try showing a little tact on the subject.

why should Japan have the sole right to hunt them?

They don't. Any country that wants to can hunt whales.

Even if the stocks of whales are sustainable, there is no market for the meat to sustain the industry.

Then no commercial companies will hunt whales. So if commercial hunting was started no one would participate and the industry would end. But be blocking the free market, the protests actually help maintain the hunt.

I really hate whaling because these animals are a part of the ecosystem

Every animal and plant is part of the ecosystem, so do you hate all animal hunting and all farming?

Records show that there are several prefectures where not a single gram of whale meat is eaten.

Records from 1823 when the statement you quote was made?

but I don't think in 1823 the Japanese were sailing all the way to Antarctica to get their whales

And in 1823 people weren't using tractors for farming. Should farmers be forced to do things the way it was in 1823?

It would seem that most countries around the world HAVE stopped whaling for moral and social reasons.

It would seem that most of them stopped it for economic reasons. Most countries hunted whales for oil, not food. There are better and cheaper alternatives to whale oil, so that reason for hunting them became uneconomical. Maybe the commercial hunt for meat is also uneconomical, but there is no way to tell because the free market isn't allowed to operate.

Truth is that if left to modern Japanese taste the whaling industry wouldn't survive or the price of whale meat would be prohibitively high.

Then let the market decide.

abundance of scientific evidence continues to prove that hunting a species to the point extinction causes harm on a global scale.

And what scientific evidence is there that Japan is hunting any whale species to extinction?

you can eat them though, I support Japan's hunting and eating them

Out of curiosity I'm going to take the bait. Why?

I ate whale here and in other countries and enjoyed it but my concerns for the species now override any culinary desires.

Which official list?

Even if they are an endangered species?

After checking the official list it seems the blue whale is the only one endangered. Eat the rest

I support Japan's hunting and eating them

Even if they are an endangered species?

You can't just breed whales like livestock. Try harder.

you can eat them though, I support Japan's hunting and eating them

the over abundance of scientific evidence continues to prove that hunting a species to the point extinction causes harm on a global scale.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The question is whether whale stocks are endangered or not.

whats wrong with eating whale?

For anyone who is ok with eating meat, there is nothing wrong with eating whale in and of itself.

However, if whales are endangered, then the problem would be that they should be allowed to live, so as not to lose their stocks.

I do not understand how Japan official's can completely dismiss that continuing to hunt whales not only puts a drain on thier govt but the over abundance of scientific evidence continues to prove that hunting a species to the point extinction causes harm on a global scale. They of all cultures I would think they would be more open to change in order to keep the balance of life in harmony.

whats wrong with eating whale?

Truth is that if left to modern Japanese taste the whaling industry wouldn't survive or the price of whale meat would be prohibitively high.

If they really want Japan to stop whaling, they are going to have to hit Japan where it hurts. Right now, the EU is preparing to sign an FTA with Japan even though the Union itself is anti whaling.  These complaints never seem to affect the bottom line, and until they do, Japan Iceland, and Norway will continue this barbaric practice indefinitely.

Norway slaughters 3 times as many whales as Japan even though their population is almost 1/20th the size so I see no issue whatsoever in Japan resuming full scale commercial whaling and would be supportive of it.

It depends on the actual number of whale stocks out there - something no one knows, due to anti-whaling countries preventing the research into numbers required in the moratorium to have happened in 1990 (iirc).

 I agree that Whale is not tasty,

Depends on how it's prepared i guess. Tried whale meat for the first time a couple of weeks ago at one of my fav local izakaya in kobe and it was superb. Was some sort of carpaccio whale meat which had been marinated for, i reckon, a few hours.

Have to say i was almost disappointed it tasted sooo good and told my gf reckon in some countries this could be their national dish (if it wasn't whale meat, that is). This was really, really good (well aware marinated mix is what makes 90% of the dish, could have been as good/better with other meat/fish dunno).

Now the question remains should anyone commercially hunt whales.

Ah, good old Japan. The world takes two steps forward, Japan takes two steps back and calls it tradition.

get your methyl mercury here! fresh mercury! ....for the kids!

Japan defies international protests to carry out what it calls scientific research whaling, having repeatedly said its ultimate goal is to whale commercially again.

....commercialized scientific research? Makes sense.

Ossan

The "tradition" is of hunting

In small boats, in their own waters.

and consuming whales

As opposed to 'researching' whales.

These practices have been abandoned for social and/or moral reasons.  Hunting and eating non-endangered whales doesn't fall into the same category

From the article:

international protests

the International Court of Justice ruled that Japan should halt Antarctic whaling.

an international whaling moratorium began

While morally greyer, still a moral argument.

Whaling doesn't fall under the same category of needing to be abandoned due to social or moral reasons?

Please explain that statement to me.

It would seem that most countries around the world HAVE stopped whaling for moral and social reasons. Japan continues to break the laws created to prevent it from whaling. The laws Japan creates regarding the issue, it continues to skirt around.

Norway slaughters 3 times as many whales as Japan even though their population is almost 1/20th the size so I see no issue whatsoever in Japan resuming full scale commercial whaling and would be supportive of it.

Anti-whalers should go after the most egregious offenders instead of falling back on standard knee jerk Japan bashing, that is of course if their agenda is truly to protect whales..

And this country is hosting the Olympics and yacking about "global responsibility". The irony is hilarious.

RiskyMosaicToday 11:11 am JSTOssanAmerica

Good quote, but I don't think in 1823 the Japanese were sailing all the way to Antarctica to get their whales. Rather, they were sticking to their own waters, not pillaging a shared global resource an ocean away.

The "tradition" is of hunting and consuming whales. Which has obviously existed for a long time. All fisheries, and yes that's what whaling is, the harvesting of a marine resource, are carried out not just in national waters but in international waters as well. Those international waters do not "belong" to any coumtry.

eating whale is part of its culture.

well so was slitting your belly open with a sword if you annoyed your boss, but they managed to give that one up.

And they don't do that anymore. Americans don't enslave Africans and Australians don't shoot Aborigines now. These practices have been abandoned for social and/or moral reasons. Hunting and eating non-endangered whales doesn't fall into the same category,

zichiToday 10:29 am JSTAll over Japan, people eat whale meat. 

Records show that there are several prefectures where not a single gram of whale meat is eaten. When it comes to claiming tradition of hunting and eating whales, true, but then there are so many traditions which are no longer appropriate nor followed.

Siebold's observation was that whale meat was wifely eaten, not that it was eaten in absolutely every prefecture, which incidentally did not exist until 1868. Obviously landocked regions would be less likely to regularly eat anything that comes from the sea.

My point is simply that there has existed a long tradition of hunting and eating whales. It did not start with the use of whale meat in the post WWII protein shortage period as some uninformed people believe.

Correct that globally there are many traditions that are no longer appropriate, ie; for social or health reasons, or otherwise not followed, However I do not consider eating whale meat from a species that is not endangered to fall into that category.

These are a great source of food and my position is that we should harness this.

So it is out in the open now... not for scientific research.

Unbelievable and shameful in this day and age. Why Japan would want to fly in the face of the whole rest of the World is quite inconceivable. I agree withthe comments above that this is just mindless defiance and the "scientific research" thing is a total sham

The government should certainly permit sustainable whaling activities.

It should however not itself be in the business of producing whale meat because the government is a failure at producing the right amounts of product at the right time and price.

The government should restrict itself to governance, and leave businesses to conduct business.

Governance includes ensuring that quantities of whales caught are sustainable, but not deciding how many of those sustainable catch levels should actually be caught. The free market is best left to decide that.

I thought this is what the IWC was supposed to be doing. To the extent that it fails to fulfil its role, I support Japan's government in taking the reins.

But the roles of government and business ought clearly be understood. I fear this may not be the case and this move may be yet another expansion of central planning in this country.

Another case of the arrogance of the LDP, pushing laws through that haven't been debated or are not allowed to be debated. They , the LDP have so much confidence because of all the money dished out to poor , even landlocked countries but registered with the IWC , by the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA).

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/jica-japan-is-building-roads-transit-airports-in-cambodia-laos-vietnam.

and another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CNy8vMasU 1:56mins into the video, the list is endless of their loans to secure whaling, and other causes. These countries must realize that one day you will have to pay , nothing comes free in this world. Thats why international aid is such a huge political bribing machine, from Japan,China,US,EU, and the UK all trying to get what benefits them, guess what, it ain't going to change folks, that how the system works.

I know that for century's people all over the world have hunted whale's for various reasons. The major of them being for food, oil, and other reasons that include using the whole animal so that nothing is wasted. But before they were hunted commercially by thousands in big ships that could process hundreds at once to the point of being hunted to near extiction. The indigenous people only hunted a few in small boats in certain seasons and the one animal that was caught was shared by a whole village and nothing went to waiste. However we look at it different cultures ate whale's to live but they were not greedy and they did not exploit the animals at that time . now people are hunting them not just for food but other reasons without knowing if the numbers have been replenished. I really hate whaling because these animals are a part of the ecosystem and the earth just like we are and we are ruining this planet with pollution, over fishing, and war. I wish we would all stop and think about the planet for once and what we are doing to it. We are destroying our only home because we are not connected to the heart of the planet any more and we don't care about the pain we are causing to the planet and we are taking things for granted when we really need to see the signs of our own destruction. All people see the planet as is big buisness and what can be dug up and gouged out and fished and sold commercially. The earth is fighting back nature is its weapon and we are its targets and most importantly Climate Change is the secret weapon because it's unpredictable what natural disaster will happen next and will we be able to survive the storms and disasters that befall us all because we are not trying hard enough to stop this wrecking ball before it destroys us all. To me we deserve whatever nature throws our way as punishment for not caring about her and her children as we should.

Whale meat is sold at the fish corner of the shop in Japan. We do not have inhibition eating fish. Move them to the meat corner as a first step.

This is nothing more than a defiant "in your face" response to the bad publicity the whaling industry has suffered recently.

It's well-known that whaling in Japan is a 'dead industry' and the so-called 'controversy' over whaling is nothing more than a deflection to obscure Japan's almost total destruction of the world's supply of bluefin tuna.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/13/national/media-national/japans-fisheries-still-swimming-upstream/#.WV7An1HraUk

Also, only the very gullible would ever eat whale ( or what is labeled as whale ). 95% of people in Japan never touch the stuff because they know it's full of mercury.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/09/whale-dolphin-meat-yahoo-japan-exceeds-safe-mercury-limits

Many people in this country want cheaper imported food, particularly from Europe. Instead they're going to get mercury laced minke steaks. It's just beyond comprehension....

Japan - the land that Reality forgot.

Whales are in the wild, on top of which they appear to play an important part in the wider ecology of the ocean.

Fish though in the wild perhaps need more management, as over fishing with new technology and large catch boats seems to be having an effect on their numbers, which is how we got to the whaling moratorium.

Additionally Fish and whales are by measurable standards clearly of a very different type of cognition.

While whale meat isn't even that popular, as mentioned elsewhere large consumption of whale meat is historically unlikely pre 20th Century, however if the argument is that it is historical I wouldn't have any issue with small numbers of local people using traditional methods to whale in their local area.

This is very different to going half way around the planet in a government sponsored effort to.... make some old men happy.. I actually can't see how the costs can be justified given the yield under Japan's own loophole whaling, and not unimportantly the international backlash Japan gets over this.

All this being said.. my main issue about it is the lie..

If Japan wants to go whaling then make the case for small scale "responsible" whaling, don't make up nonsense excuses about scientific research.

My feeling is this, while it is true that many whale species are abundant, why should Japan have the sole right to hunt them? This 'resource' was created by over 150 countries who gave up commercial whaling. If Japan intends to exploit this resource they should be made to compensate the countries who created it. And, another point is, very few Japanese have any desire to eat whale meat. Even if the stocks of whales are sustainable, there is no market for the meat to sustain the industry. This means that, Japan's will to return to whale hunting is nothing more than 'kill it because it's there'. Does Japan invest in the care and and breeding of whales? Has Japan actually 'farmed' whales for them to eat? It's total bollocks!

YubaruToday  07:13 am JST

The thing is though is just whose culture is killing whales all about? History says differently, and yet the collective has been led to think that eating whale is a Japanese cultural thing, when in reality it isn't, not really.

"A German medical doctor Philipp Franz von Siebold paid attention to the Japanese's love for whale dishes. He came to Japan in 1823 as a medical doctor for a Dutch business house. He wrote "Fauna Japonica" (Record of Japanese Animals) based on his research during his stay in Japan. He wrote the following about the Japanese utilization of whales: "...the right whale's meat is very delicious and it is a major part of the diet. Whalers sell whales to fish wholesalers. People eat the whale's meat, blubber and internal organs and take oil from the inedible parts. All over Japan, people eat whale meat. The taste of the right whale is similar to the bull or the buffalo, and is hard a little. Although they eat both raw and salted whale meat, salted meat tastes better. Salted blubber is eaten sliced. Fins can be eaten. The salted blubber can be used as a medicine for chronic diarrhea, and it is effective for stomach ailments and general stomach health. Powdered fin relieves constipation and oil is a medicine for scabies..." He clearly recorded that whale could be used not only as a source of food but also for medicine."

http://luna.pos.to/whale/jwa_trad.html

Yubaru, I agree that Whale is not tasty, but, I wonder if the amount of bad press and condemnation hasn't turned many against eating whale. The other point, which is now mute since this is 2017, is that when Japan was whaing, they would use all of the whale, from the meat, to the blubber for oil, to the bones for different uses, not like Europeans who slaughtered thousands of whales just for the oil in the blubber and left the rest.

The thing is though is just whose culture is killing whales all about? History says differently, and yet the collective has been led to think that eating whale is a Japanese cultural thing, when in reality it isn't, not really.

The media and associated industries have brainwashed just about everyone it seems, here in Japan about this topic.

Also, if the only way the industry can survive is by getting government subsidies, then I say get rid of it. If Japanese were so hot on eating whale meat, the industry could easily survive on it's own. But it can't, because people really don't like whale, not to mention that it isn't all that healthy either.