New wiring defect found in ANA Dreamliner

Boeing, Seattle is now laying off many design engineers for Dreamliner 787. What a mess.

Wow! I got the Finnair fight just 20 minutes after, bad news about the 787 or good that they found the issue before it became a problem.

Wondering how many wires on each plane

MAde in the USA. Japan made trouble free cars which overtook the American ones. Maybe made in Japan Dreamliners would have fewer problems.

And yet again another problem for the outsourced plane. This is what happens when you buy all the parts from different countries, have the cheapest bidder try to assemble them, and then try to sell the product for a fortune. I can't understand why Japan always scrambles to buy things en masse when they've never been tested and proven true. ANA and JAL have no one to blame but themselves. Caveat emptor.

I agree with smithinjapan. Outsourcing can cause problems, especially with something as technical as an airplane. Way too many parts have to integrate for the whole thing to work. When these parts come from sources all over the world it is difficult to trace problems when they arise.

You really have to wonder when the disaster is going to happen. We have already seen fires on these planes and now we find out that the wiring for the fire exstinguishers is faulty. An accident waiting to happen if there ever was one.

I see this problem of incorrect wiring on a weekly occurrence in systems ranging from automotive to personal computer systems to automation controls.

It all starts when someone's designs are either incorrectly labelled or assembled incorrectly because someone on the 'assembly line' was standing on the 'wrong side' of the desk or belt. I've seen Intel motherboards that had 1394 connections marked correctly on the schematics and on printed correctly on the motherboard but because someone read the plans upside down placed the wrong colour connectors on the motherboards. Anyone simply going by the colour code simply installed the wire leads wrong and when customer plugged something in that port it would damage the motherboard permanently. That's a motherboard at your desk but imagine in a two engine aircraft when you have an engine fire in say engine one so pull the fire extinguishing circuit for the number one engine and you flame out your good engine. Yeah, you're screwed a lot worse in that case all because someone wired it up backwards. Get off you high horse saying that USA built would be better because it was a FINAL assemble in the USA.

So who do you blame? The designer? The person who can' t follow design plans during assembly? The quality control person who let that fault slip by? The IDIOTS who didn't make an ALL STOP and recall order to repair the defect?

It doesn't matter where all the components are made. In the end it's ONLY BOEING WHO IS RESPONSIBLE!

Boeing farmed out the work but it's Boeing who made the call and only Boeing in the end will end up paying for their lack of judgement and quality control.

Know Better: "It doesn't matter where all the components are made. In the end it's ONLY BOEING WHO IS RESPONSIBLE!"

Are you not responsible for the product you purchase without thoroughly checking it first? Sorry, but if you are duped into buying someone you definitely are responsible for the blame of it being bad when you use it.

"and do that job yourself, since Boeing evidently can't."

Boeing probably didn't. That's the problem. Batteries? Japanese Yuasa and French Thales. Boeing is determined to become an aircraft assembler, not an aircraft manufacturer.

Dreamliner became a nightmare liner!

Boeing is going to move to China.

Farmboy: "Now THAT is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So you go to an electronics store and buy a computer.. it doesn't work, and it's YOUR fault?"

Well, that depends. If you go buy some new computer that has never been tested based on past examples of a company outsourcing, then yes. Generally people buy a computer that they know has been tried, tested, and true. Now, factor in the fact that hundreds of lives are involved in your purchase, Farmboy, and it's not just something that will sit on your desk. I'd call it safety, but if you like you can look at how JAL and ANA are suffering as a result of their quick buys.

ah the Lemonliner, if it was a normal company it would have recalled all it products by now. Its no wonder Airbus is predicted to pass Boeing in annual sales.

We were looking forward to flying on it.....now NOT A CHANCE......too many problems !

as far as I'm concerned, the more of you who don't want to fly on the 787, the better. Cheaper air fares for me. Flown it several times recently, all flights full, so sadly , the cheaper airfare is unlikely to happen! Nothing more than teething troubles on what is a radically new design. Every little problem is going to be reported. I notice none of you scaremongers commenting on the BA 747 which returned twice to Saudi Arabia a few days ago with landing gear problems...slightly more disconcerting than a couple of small wiring issues!

for those blaming us, Japan contributed significantly in the development of the 787

Just remove the chinese parts. They were made by stressed people working hard hours pressed by nervous bosses.

There's something radically wrong, somewhere. I would assume that the affected wiring wasn't that of a sub-contractor to Boeing, but was done on the actual aircraft by electricians.

Boeing would seem to be becoming too clever in an attempt to beat rival Aerospace with new aircraft - witness the problem with the new type Ni/Cd batteries catching fire - to get them in the air. It isn't good news for Boeing.

Wasn't the fire extinguisher wiring problem the reason for the fire in the upper body just forward of the tailplane on a Dreamliner at Heathrow Airport about a month ago?

Boeing must be extremely careful with their excellent safety record that they have built up over decades of aircraft construction not to allow it to be prejudiced.

From Mike Thurgood.

And yet again another problem for the outsourced plane. This is what happens when you buy all the parts from different countries...

One word - Airbus.

In the future, Boeing will be making its airliners at a number of industrial estates in rural China. Foxconn workers will be putting in the wiring during their 11 hour shifts, when they aren't out on strike demanding subsistence wages. The CEO's salary, meanwhile, will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

"mike23thurgood"

Not sure where you get your facts from but you seemed to be very confused.

Boeing would seem to be becoming too clever in an attempt to beat rival Aerospace with new aircraft - witness the problem with the new type Ni/Cd batteries catching fire - to get them in the air. It isn't good news for Boeing.

NiCd battery technology is as old as the hills and was replaced by NiMH battery technology for just about all cheap-ish consumer electronics. Lithium-ion battery technology has pretty much replaced NiMH technology for most mid to upper range consumer electronics. Then there are lithium polymer batteries and lithium iron phosphate batteries.

One thing though for sure is that NiCd batteries which started out in 1898, YES 1898 are old and because of the inherent "memory effect" are an absolutely lousy choice for a power supply battery that will be taking on charging at random.

FYI, the 787 uses lithium-ion batteries in the main power pack.

"Wasn't the fire extinguisher wiring problem the reason for the fire in the upper body just forward of the tailplane on a Dreamliner at Heathrow Airport about a month ago?"

No that was the wiring for the emergency locator transmitter (ELT) shorting out having being damaged (pinched during assembly/installation) causing the backup lithium-manganese dioxide batteries that powered the ELT to overheat and burn because of the shorted wiring.

The current fire extinguisher wiring problem is related to the two engines and their fire suppression system.

As ANA discovered, the wiring had been incorrectly installed which would have caused the good engine to have been extinguished while leaving the engine on fire to continue burning. That's really a sticky situation to deal with as you waste time trying to figure out why your good engine had lost power and your flaming engine continues to BBQ away.

Imagine the confusion in the cockpit as you realize you now have to try flipping the opposite switch in hopes that it will put the fire out and hope you have enough altitude and luck to be able to restart the good engine you "flamed out" all the while in your big glider. At least between the lithium-ion batteries main battery packs and the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) being deployed you would be able to control your very expensive glider and hopefully restart the one good engine before you got too close trouble otherwise you would be making a "deadstick" landing if you were lucky enough to find a suitable place to land. Over water with no place to land and "ditching" would be your only solution.

Good luck in trying to create a defect free aircraft.

"Good luck in trying to create a defect free aircraft."

How about: "Good luck in trying to create an aircraft whose global fleet doesn't get grounded from the get-go for several months, prompting your best, but now angry, customers to demand sizable financial compensation from you"

How about: "Good luck in trying to create an aircraft that was built to the same standards of your previous aircraft"

Also, there is a good reason they outlawed aluminum wiring for buildings fifty years ago.

I have zero confidence in this aircraft and will be extremely uncomfortable if I ever have to fly in one. I get the impression it has been rushed to the market at the expense of a complete, in-depth test programme.

BuzzBAug. 16, 2013 - 08:22AM JST

Also, there is a good reason they outlawed aluminum wiring for buildings fifty years ago.

Aluminum wiring for the 787? Crazy!! This is IT! I will never fly in that for this reason alone.