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Protesters in Tokyo join 24-hour global 'Occupy Wall Street' movement

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I have yet to hear any of these occupiers give a coherent explanation of what exactly they want... other than express unspecified frustration with vague concepts such as corporate greed.

Feel-good fuzzy wuzzy imho.

1 ( +12 / -12 )

although i side with the poor, all i can say is: copycats

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

"No to nuclear power"

But what if, without nuclear power generation, there isn't enough power to keep the lights on at the Occupy Wall Streeters' homes?

1 ( +7 / -7 )

here's a collection of "occupy Wall St." pickup lines, from twitter. Pretty funny stuff:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/587654/201110110803/and35OWSPickupLines-What-time-do-you-get-off-not-working-.aspx

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Power to the people! Stick it to the man, Tokyo-ites!

7 ( +13 / -5 )

Freakin MORONS, the whole lot!!

-12 ( +8 / -20 )

I have yet to hear any of these occupiers give a coherent explanation of what exactly they want... other than express unspecified frustration with vague concepts such as corporate greed.

They could make specific demands. They could even draft legislation and present it to Congress. Would it make a difference?

For now, it is enough that they are putting the fear of God into the hearts of the greedy and the corrupt. Let the rich man find his own way to appease them. Or the rich man may try to crush them. I can only hope that blows up in his face if he tries.

But remember its the rich and powerful who make the laws. Its pretty obvious the sort of action that would appease them, is it not? But note that they also want a change in the hearts of the greedy and corrupt. They want them to think and realize there are consequences to their actions. You can't hand thought over on a silver platter nor a change of heart either. The people are angry, and everybody knows at least one reason why.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

protesting is not a crime

12 ( +14 / -2 )

protesting is not a crime

You would not know that watching youtube. Obviously this is another thing they want; the right to protest. They are testing that right and finding out they don't have it free and clear. They do not and did not need a clear demand to test the right. But the police have handed them a good and clear reason to protest, especially Anthony Bologna, who walked up to a group of women already under control and literally fenced in police, and sprayed their eyes with pepper spray. If they were just protesting such jackbooted sadists on the police force, it would still be enough.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Well it seems like voting doesnt help so why not protest. Whats with this bandwagon nonsense about they don`t have a clear message. The message is very clear. Dump the corruption and start acting on behalf of all individuals not just the rich and powerful.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Are they just jealous of people who have more than they do?

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

How can they draft legislation? These people don't have law degrees, nor are they politicians. Furthermore, whir it would be great if they did, it doesnt guarantee it will be passed because the GOP bhas been blocking everything for the past 3 years.

Furthermore, part of the teason they are protesting is because those people with the education, power, and responsibility to make legislation are FAILING to do their job.

There are problems on wall street they aren't equipped to handle. And congress is taking its sweet time coming up with a solution.

Consider the fire under their asses lit...

3 ( +5 / -2 )

To TPP or not to TPP, what are these bums up to anyway? We got enough bums already.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

gaijininfo - Thanks for the link. "I'm entitled to you, baby"

lol

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I would like stats on these so called protestors. How many have a HS Diploma? How many got pregnant at 15? How many bum off their parents? How many cheat on welfare and unemployment? How many think that stocking shelves at Wall Mart would be a great job? How many want to move to Japan and become English teachers? How many majored in History and know anything about it? How many know where all of the states of the Union are? How many know how many states in the states? and once again, how many want to be English teachers in Japan? Just wondering. And those tweets are funny.

-10 ( +8 / -18 )

Japangirl, Sounds like you think there's nothing wrong with the system. Were all all civil rights protesters bums too?

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Media darlings!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

JapanGal, though I usually enjoy your comments and often agree with them, this last one has me stumped. Your pejorative tone is clear, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Could you please clarify. As for myself, I'm 1000 percent behind these brave souls and truly believe we are witnessing a major turning point in the state of the world. I'm supporting them financially and will be joining them in LA when I visit next week.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Last time I was in America I was doing lock work for a company that specialized in handling clean ups and fix ups after people were evicted from their homes.

From the state of some of the houses, it was obvious some were lazy slobs. But those who would assume they all were are the exact type of self-righteous heartless people being protested. It was easy to see that some were good hardworking people who were just unlucky and had been laid off or had big medical bills to pay or some other misfortune. And to see some of the children's toys left behind was enough to break your heart if you had one.

Is their envy among the protestors? Sure. Are some just there to bask in the trouble making? Definitely. But if you think that is all there is, that workers are not getting screwed, that the government is not screwing the people, that the banks are not screwing the people, then you are living in a fantasy land or under a rock. If you think a CEO is actually worth 100 times or more than a floor worker, then you are inhuman. And if you think a family with children should be evicted because the mortage is late, then you simply have no heart.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Very well said, Notthesame. Excellent points, all.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Brave souls? hahaha

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

A lot braver (and smarter) than fools who do nothing but make fun and criticize.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

What I am saying Ben is that there are a lot of losers joing the ranks because they have nothing better to do. They should not be a part of this group, just like that famous photo of that 15 year old girl screaming and crying at Kent State University when the slaughter came on. She should not have been there and had no reason to be there.

There needs to be leadership and coordination amongst all of these groups. Someone charismatic and a good talker. I do not see that at all from what I read, but then again, the media is controlling what we see and read.

I do not like corporate greed either, but I do believe that good business leaders should be compensated for their business savvy more on the scale of Japanese CEO's rather than American packages.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Bravery in the face of what? Economic opression? I guess that's the gist of the complaint. Again, hahaha. What dolts!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Oh sh*t. Oppression!!!

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Of course, JapanGal, any time large numbers of people gather for any reason, there will always be "losers" and thrill seekers and those not even sure why they are there. There were lots of these folks in Grant Park in 1968 during the Democratic Convention in Chicago when I got bopped on the head by a Chicago cop, as well as Kent State. But so what? They are in the minority and totally irrelevant to the "cause" and the core of people who are there for all the good reasons.

At this point, the movement is leaderless and amorphous but that is the very nature of spontaneous street action. Articulate and charismatic leaders will develop and come forth as time goes on. Remember, this is not a political movement: as many Republicans (and dare I say Tea Partiers) as Democrats lost their homes to the chicanery of the banks and mortgage companies; as many Reps as Dems have lost their jobs and their unemployment benefits, and on and on and on.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

For those who don't know what the core of the protestors are protesting about, do yourself a favor and watch these 2 videos and learn why 'Wall Street" especially the privately owned "US Federal Reserve" supported by the major Wall Street banks are controlling everything about our finances, and how the banks all benefit (profit) by supporting the US Federal Reserves lunatic lending policies.

People want control of the nations finances put back into the hands of the people, and then to be managed and controlled by the people and not the Federal Reserve and the mega banks (Goldman Sachs, Chase, JP Morgan etc, etc)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

Finally, what does protesting in front of TEPCO have to do with Occupy Wall Street? I think someone has their wires crossed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Participating in/heralding this sort of expression of discontent is an admission of personal failure and stupidity, amounting to a declaration that "Life is so unfair!"

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

No to nuclear power

U know, protesting is not a crime, but this is just MORONIC.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Economic ignoramuses have a right to voice their opinons. Wail away!

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Please tone down your language and do not be impolite to other posters.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

today's occupy wall street protesters are tomorrow's wall street bankers and CEOs. protesters in the 60s became big bankers and CEOs in the 80s. We've all seen it before.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Wouldn't it be totally rad if Wall Streeters had teach-ins for the protesters?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Wow! Some people really do not understand how evil and greedy these fat cats in Washington DC really are I will not mention them by name because I think it is too shameful to only criticize the protestors there On Brawl Street in NYC.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Slick move, darma, trying to shift the argument to economic policy.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If anyone really wants to see "CHANGE" (whatever that means to him/her,) then VOTE. The professional politicians are the problem because they all are conspirators in office for one purpose: to get rich at the taxpayers expense. Instead of "Occupy Wall Street" the motto should be "No more incumbents."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

So, if it's not economics, what exactly is the issue that so perturbs the media darlings of the moment?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If they really were the 99% then they would not go camping in parks but would go to voting polls and take the whole country.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What people want is fair play devoid of corruption. is that too much to ask?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

dharma-san

I have never seen you here before but I like your thinking. I also did not see any nasty words come from you.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

There have been several demonstration through out Tokyo, Some where more docile and other more aggressive. The demands ranged from a Free Palestinian state with in the borders of 1967, to the abolition of the veto rights at the UN. Also demanded was better social laws and protections of the work force from abuses from the industries and banks. Universal medical care and the abolition of nuclear power as well as fossil fuels where demanded along with clear policies to fix the environment and promote clean renewable energies. Social justice was demanded as well as the right to try in court all bankers and stock brokers that where involved in the melt down and that caused great harm to the public at large. Direct democracy was also demanded along with the right to make decisions through referendums on all public and national or international matters. Some demanded that TPP should be abandoned for now. The seizure of all assets of TEPCO and its Top management was asked for by some. I took notes of all the demands and also pictures of the posters used in the demonstration.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

A true protest is a refusal to vote and pay taxes.

Why vote when the bankers own both sides.

Why pay taxes when it all just goes to the bankers anyways.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Economics teach-ins on Wall Street! Meme it, people.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

The "bankers". That needs explicating, yo!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

I have yet to hear any of these occupiers give a coherent explanation of what exactly they want... other than express unspecified frustration with vague concepts such as corporate greed

First things first.

And first is the growing recognition and acceptance that the current system is bankrupt and must be changed. What kinds of changes must be made and how they will be made will be worked out.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The offensive remarks were removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What kinds of changes must be made and how they will be made will be worked out.

Wouldn't it be more productive to work on specifying the desired changes now, rather than later?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Obviously the protests that started in New York won't resonate as much in Japan. Notwithstanding the arrogance of Japan's economic and political elite, at least the country has regulations with teeth compared to the bank-owned USA. Japan's Gini coefficient has gone up in recent years, but there has already been a very strong reaction among Japanese (going back several years) against the "Americanization" of the country's income distribution.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ben, I respect your opinions. Whenever it seems that I don't, please rememeber that I do! Free speech is awesome.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

All these demos seem very errr …. spontaneous! Where did they all suddenly come from?

This is not the first time this has happened and there seems to be a pattern.

Destabilise the economies, make people angry and then create agitation for change … and make sure the change is aimed at the private sector (rather than the central banks.) It's the Hegelian Dialectic at work; that is the elites/banksters maliciously set up a problem and then offer a solution that suits them. Without knowing what's going on we take the bait and enslave ourselves further.

This is the blueprint that worked in the 1930s to push forward elite control when the first wave of fascism hit the US (and then went worldwide) with the creation of the dysfunctional SEC and other "self-regulatory organisations." Then finally came the confiscation of gold.

This fake agitation will lead to draconian legislation and ultimately a one world currency. That's the game plan. If you look at the links below you'll see it's all very slick and professional, like a campaign that was planned long before, rather than coming from some "leaderless and amorphous movement" (as ben4short so accurately relayed it).

From a post on a message board dated Oct 6th at a site called the Daily Bell.

The train indeed has left the station. October 15th may be a day for the books. Communist (& ex-Green Czar) Van Jones is at the helm through MoveOn, Rebuild the American Dream, Center for American Progress and the worst of all the Kasama Project.

Global mass protests 15th October 2011

http://15october.net/spread-it/

http://october2011.org/livewelcome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyziG5bUuBE

Kasama Project: http://kasamaproject.org/polemics/

And of course, everything is tied in with Soros & the elites. Jones is the puppet. I am truly concerned for our freedoms.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Ben, I respect your opinions. Whenever it seems that I don't, please rememeber that I do! Free speech is awesome.

Yes, dan, I fully agree with your assessment of free speech, and funny as it might sound coming from me, there is no country in the world that honors and upholds this freedom more than the US. Do you recall when the US Supreme Court upheld the American Nazi Party's right to march through the streets of Skokie, Illinois, home of thousands of (elderly) Holocaust survivors? Truly a landmark case of rights trumping emotions.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wouldn't it be more productive to work on specifying the desired changes now, rather than later?

Absolutely not, Mark, and here is why: The group is still in the process of growing and needs to reach a critical mass with the consensus-building processes in place. If you start with too many specifics too soon, the newly-joining members will have to take them or leave them -- and would risk creating divisions.

This is not about productivity in the way most corporations think of it. The short-term, quick-results mentality that has gotten us all into so many human-created problems. The people leading many of our institutions have gotten there via a "survival of the fittest" gauntlet where only the most devious, Machiavellian and malevolent can attain the top. There are those same impulses among the occupiers, but democratic consensus-building will check it.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

yabits So what is it that the "newly-joining memebers" think they are joining?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

100% sympathy and support for the protestors.

After seeing the disgrace of the Paulson bailout and the disgusting outcome of financiers even apparently profiting from it, well, of course the ordinary people who have lost their jobs and have no opportunities are going to feel anger.

The whole system seems to be wrong.

If you embrace globalization then nothing will be made locally... it will all be made elsewhere.

People who might have previously worked in a factory are in big trouble because there are no more factories...

What hope for less educated people or, dare we say, less intelligent people?

We can't all work at Apple...

The blue collar workers are in long term difficulties and I don't see any solution for that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

And the police brutality against the demonstrators has been shocking.

If I were an American I would be sickened to see such a brutal police force, behaving as if it were a third world dictatorship... shame on the American police.

People have a right to demonstrate.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

So, this is a movement of the less intelligent?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The group is still in the process of growing and needs to reach a critical mass with the consensus-building processes in place.

So you would develop a very large group of people who want "change". Later, you try to decide, as a group, what specifically that "change" should be.

But won't people who don't agree with the specifics either leave the group, or turn against it? How can you hold the group together if they have different ideas of what "change" should be?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So, this is a movement of the less intelligent?

A comment of no value or interest, but thanks anyway.

I believe people may have different IQs but we are still all equal.

We have to look honestly at the kind of society we want to create.

Not everyone is an Ivy League or Oxbridge graduate, brimming with confidence, intelligence and ability.

What of those people who aren't in this elite?

If all the factories have gone, what kind of work can they do?

Can they all be hairdressers and cleaners and so on?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

For now, it is enough that they are putting the fear of God into the hearts of the greedy and the corrupt. Let the rich man find his own way to appease them. Or the rich man may try to crush them. I can only hope that blows up in his face if he tries.

It's more of a curiosity. With no actual goals the protests basically amount to unfocused dissatisfaction, not much to fear. I've seen the list on their website and what demands they do have boarder on ridiculous. A personal favorite was the forgiveness of all current standing debt, that idea must be wonderful for all those protesters that attended a major university for a liberal arts degree.

It was easy to see that some were good hardworking people who were just unlucky and had been laid off or had big medical bills to pay or some other misfortune.

And there are assistance programs in place. A fairly large number of them actually both public and private. I know people in Detroit that have only worked just often enough to keep their benefits and they certainly don't want for food and shelter.

But if you think that is all there is, that workers are not getting screwed, that the government is not screwing the people, that the banks are not screwing the people, then you are living in a fantasy land or under a rock.

We've screwed ourselves too. Over a decade of living beyond our means, and yes that applies to everyone. The net savings rate in the U.S is a negative which means people have been living on credit and have been for years, and now it's coming back on us. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions.

If you think a CEO is actually worth 100 times or more than a floor worker

Why not? It's a simple matter of skill set. CEO's compensation subject to the wills of company shareholders, if they feel that the CEO has justified the money they will oblige. The more people that have a skill the less valuable that skill is. If you think you deserve more, prove it.

And if you think a family with children should be evicted because the mortage is late, then you simply have no heart.

One month late does not an eviction make. There are payment plans and court dates and assistance programs and if you have children there are even more available. Eviction takes a lot of time and money and typically won't be pursued unless the mortgage holder is graciously behind in payments, in which case they shouldn't be in that house anyway. There are some anecdotal stories to the contrary but in general eviction is not an overnight phenomenon.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

From the AP article: Italian TV reports from Milan showed about 20 young people trying unsuccessfully to enter a building where Goldman Sachs has an office, and spraying red paint on the entrance.

On the video below at the 1:32 mark, you'll see scenes of Italian "anarchists" smearing paint and sticking "15.0 Global Revolution" posters on the windows of a bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Y5M8MfBVQ

I've read people's comments on JT complaining that the corporate media either didn't cover or were very reluctant to cover the protests. Now all of a sudden they are promoting it with zeal and concentrating on the violent side of it. Who does that benefit?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So you would develop a very large group of people who want "change"

Careful there, Mark. I am not "developing" the group. The group is being forming itself by the conditions around them. And, in that, a new kind of culture is taking shape. Many sense or know the status quo must change in a very serious and profound way.

People have been brought up for years being told to stay in line and do what they are told to do (study hard, get good grades, etc. etc.) or else their future will be in jeopardy. Well, guess what? The vast majority have done those things and sense great wrong and danger anyway! (Would anyone actually aspire to be a terrified little Segretti like our troll here?)

But won't people who don't agree with the specifics either leave the group, or turn against it?

That is only likely in proportion that the people who feel that way believe they have some much better alternative. That is why the social aspect of the gatherings is so critically important, and the time taken to form the kind of bonds that don't exist in corporatized society.

What really upsets and angers some people like the little man spouting out one-liners is the awareness that the people coming out to gather are much more intelligent, caring and ethical than his types. Who would want to be very close to that type for very long?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The group is being forming itself by the conditions around them.

Sorry. Bad edit: Should read: The groups are forming themselves by the conditions around them. Soon enough, those conditions will include the very dynamics and creativity of the group.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

These people are just pathetic! So now let's say hypothetical they can reign in Wall street, what next. I can see the U.S. molding into a giant hammer and sickle. I have absolutely no problem with these guys making the kind of cash they do, if I were working on Wall street, I would too, more power to them, but that's just the capitalist in me speaking out, just makes me want to work that much harder. Maybe some of them have a legitimate gripes, but for the vast majority, trying to take advantage of the situation and milking it. What's next, lynching rich people?

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Face it. Movements without a galvanizing, enunciable purpose are doomed to be a footnote in history, if that.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

We've screwed ourselves too. Over a decade of living beyond our means, and yes that applies to everyone.

Not really. There have been those deeply involved in the sustainable-economics movement -- and practicing what they advocate -- for decades now. Those involved in conspicuous consumerism have often looked down on those who not only live within their means, but actually give back to the planet.

Why not? It's a simple matter of skill set. CEO's compensation subject to the wills of company shareholders, if they feel that the CEO has justified the money they will oblige.

A large proportion of shares of most corporations are held in pension-type funds where the fund managers exercise the right to vote. Gee, I guess the fund managers are worth 100:1 too. Will of the shareholders. Get real.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I can see the U.S. molding into a giant hammer and sickle.

Forget such ridiculous images... how about the US now?

How about the US where ordinary folks can't find a job, are mired in debt and are losing their houses.

A US where the factories are going... going... gone.

Where everything is imported from factories in China...

I don't understand capitalism... when manufacturing is gone, how can a country employ it's workers?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

These people are just pathetic! So now let's say hypothetical they can reign in Wall street, what next. I can see the U.S. molding into a giant hammer and sickle...What's next, lynching rich people?

Hey, you must really despise people if you think that fellow citizens concerned enough about conditions without any suggestions of violence are going to meet your very low expectations of them. You actually think the people who have engineered the financial meltdown and the transfer of millions of jobs out of the U.S. economy -- and who have shortened or destroyed the lives and futures of millions are the ones to feel confidence in?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

yabits: " A large proportion of shares of most corporations are held in pension-type funds where the fund managers exercise the right to vote. "

Substantiate that claim, please.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Thanks, yabits, for taking the time to explain it.

The only way I think this movement could create significant change is in the case of Armageddon-ish economic collapse. Otherwise, I don't see a very large group of people (ie. millions) committing themselves to creating change without first deciding what specifically that change should be.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Face it. Movements without a galvanizing, enunciable purpose are doomed to be a footnote in history, if that.

Just because you have a desperate need for someone to tell you what to do, doesn't mean everyone does. In fact, it's just that need for daily -- nay, hourly -- instruction and validation that gives the right-wing talk shows their life.

The OWS movement doesn't have a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or anyone else playing the role of propaganda minister. And that fact bugs the right-wingers to pieces because it provides them with no clear target to attack.

And of course, you are wrong about history. Many of the movements behind the Iron Curtain that helped overthrow communism had to learn to be purposefully vague and creative in their messaging. It's why so many artists -- like Havel of Czechoslovakia were so influential within those movements. The leaders of the Velvet Revolution didn't just meet one day and come out with a list of demands.

But for those who need one, the clear goal is profoundly changing a malevolent system. The Czechs, Slovaks and Poles are still working things out -- but they're no longer confined by a system as brutalizing as the one they replaced.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What I am saying Ben is that there are a lot of losers joing the ranks because they have nothing better to do.

JapanGal - not sure why you presume that there are "a lot of losers" there (apart from the obvious fact that they do not seem to be gainfully employed during the working week). The high school drop outs amd those who were pregnant at 15, would probably not make up the population of protesters - they will by and large lack the motivation to be there or to have made any attempt to grasp the issues.

I am not sticking up for the protesters, but will not condemn them. While I work in the financial sector. I accept that something pretty bad went on in Wall St for which the world will be paying for a long time. I doubt many of the protesters really understand the exact reasons, but they realise that a lot of people became very very rich at the expense of the wider economy.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@JapanGal

What I am saying Ben is that there are a lot of losers joing the ranks because they have nothing better to do.

Well, if my parents where alcoholics, I would most likely be a looser too. Few issues to all commentators:

The real ones who started the move in the US are civil rightists and college students. Not homeless and alcoholics.

Homeless people in California this year are twice as much as the year before. It's not like suddenly more people became alcoholics or suddenly lazy.

As for alcoholics and drug addicts. Most of the people don't understand that much is predetermined by the environment around a person. And when you are in a bad environment, the statistics are not your friend, and you are most probably ought to be miserable. I would never judge another person unless I would have been in his condition, and more so had a similar genes like him (which i impossible). So I think it's better just not to judge.

On a side note, I saw countless people work on pay jobs, and I know just how fragile they are (in terms of handling pressure/stress, taking risk to achieve results, etc.), and all of them, just seem so unaware of that fact. For instance I was arguing with a person who was rubbishing people, in some country that had critical condition, for being jobless, and when the economy took a hit (in 2008) and only 10% of people in the company where he was working were fired, he was among them (in a rude way, he was among the 10% most useless). I just can't imagine how long jobless he would have been have he lived in countries with tougher conditions (like the one he criticized), most probably for years. And had he had no parents, where he would have went? To the streets most likely.

Unless you have millions that you worked out yourself, you need to understand that you are as vulnerable as the people you are rubbishing, the people who became homeless this year. So I ask all commentators who criticized the people on the street to mature a little bit and be more respectful, because next year it could be you.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If the 99% would demonstrate, then something would change.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Not really. There have been those deeply involved in the sustainable-economics movement -- and practicing what they advocate -- for decades now. Those involved in conspicuous consumerism have often looked down on those who not only live within their means, but actually give back to the planet.

Yes, a minority have lived as such. An even smaller minority manages their money carefully and takes reasonable steps to insulate themselves against the chance of being laid off or getting terribly ill. The majority live on credit cards and debt, much like the corporations they are protesting.

It's an ignorant, doofus statement -- and I'm being kind. A large proportion of shares of most corporations are held in pension-type funds where the fund managers exercise the right to vote. Gee, I guess the fund managers are worth 100:1 too. Will of the shareholders. Get real

Got a problem, don't work for them. I make a fraction of what my company's CEO makes but I get along well enough and those in my department make about 30% more than the average within our field, if I didn't like working for them I'd stay just long enough to find another job. It's the owners right to determine payment, you can either take it or move on, your choice.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Um. The movements behind the Iron Curtain enunciated their demands. Down with the Communist Party. Freedom from the same, Now. And, thanks to external pressures, that did come to pass.

The very few protesting folks who are garnering media attention in the US now are jejune and clueless by comparison. Maybe they will come up with something coherent and intelligent. Seems very unlikely that anything of the sort will transpire.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Hey, you must really despise people if you think that fellow citizens concerned enough about conditions without any suggestions of violence are going to meet your very low expectations of them. You actually think the people who have engineered the financial meltdown and the transfer of millions of jobs out of the U.S. economy -- and who have shortened or destroyed the lives and futures of millions are the ones to feel confidence in?

I DO despise these people, it's true. Yes, the economy is terrible. This is what happens when you have a President that hates the Private sector and before you start going off on the last admin. let us stay at where we are, shall we. This economy is under Obama's watch, these people need to focus their time on marching towards the WH and bringing their problems to the President and stop making idiots of themselves. This President is the one that is taking this country and millions of people right off the cliff! There are many jobs, yes, it might not be the one you don't like, but if many illegals can come to the states and find work, regardless of how demeaning it might seem, the fact is, they are working! Never be too proud! But we know, most of these losers wouldn't do that, even if it's $4 an hour, something is better than nothing! Anything else is just a sorry*** excuse! I AM NOT the biggest fan of Wall street, but they have the right to earn money, they get paid well for being the best at what they do, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that! More power to them.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

So, what drives an economy?

Bear in mind that an economy is comprised of every able body/mind in its locus.

Hunger, of various sorts.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I don't understand capitalism... when manufacturing is gone, how can a country employ it's workers?

Capitalism is actually fairly simple system, what we have in the U.S is not capitalism though. Not even close. What capitalist thinks that government bailing out a corporation is acceptable? Where is the profit in giving loans to people who can't afford it?

But back to the question, if manufacturing goes you refocus your job base. The best jobs in the U.S are service oriented. My recommendation would be for people to do some research into what fields are growing the fastest and pick one they feel matches up with their skill set.

Actually, it's quite the opposite, as it assumes the person making it is capable of much better.

I'll accept that as a compliment, I always knew you liked me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@yabits -- The OWS movement doesn't have a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or anyone else playing the role of propaganda minister.

No, but then it would be too obvious. They are starting to come out of the woodwork though. Here's someone that could be playing the role of a propaganda minister. He's been interviewed by ABC, Fox and now RT. A comment under the video says:

Please see my remarks about who this "Jesse Lagreca" is below. He's "Left Cover"...a writer for Daily Kos...with a "Left" slant. Also showcased by MoveOn folks to be the 'new face' of OWS. Co-opting....happens more than you know and right under your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIHQNDwsdnU

Forget the false left vs right stuff. As I said before the movement is being hijacked, if it ever was a true grassroots movement to begin with.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Movement" is a gross overstatement of the present and possible future of the scant souls gathering hither and yon. Their congregating will end shortly, if not by massmedia disinterest, by the onslaught of winter.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Interesting how Occupy Wall Street has provoked such a strong reaction from garden-variety right-wing types who worship at the altar of private industry, espouse a vitriolic, pathological hatred of government and maintain blind faith in the efficacy of private markets as a palliative for everything. To those people, all I can say is: This is your world. The USA is a bank-owned state. Investment bankers and hedge fund managers, insufferable in the best of times, pulled off one of the biggest shakedowns the world has ever seen following the 2008 crisis. What more do you garden-variety right-wing types want? The people you worship have swallowed the USA whole, practically.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

News update, I guess the anarchists in Italy have used the protests as an excuse to start burning stuff again. They've even started harassing the actual protestors. Not a real reflection of what the movement stands for but a clear indication of how easy it is for other groups to latch onto an unfocused movement.

I've poked fun at the protests for lacking a refined message but there are some legitimate reasons for me wanting to see some coherent policies. The greatest failing of an inclusive movement that anybody can join, an oxymoron it may be but my point stands. The longer it goes on without some standards the more outside interests are going ot attach themselves to it.

Plus I don't like anarchists. I'm a pro-property libertarian and I don't like getting lumped in with them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It sounds like most of you on this board like getting used and abused by elitists. Humanity as a whole should be focusing on improving this great planet not on becoming more greedy, corrupt, and expanding the military industrial complex. Life is precious and we only get one chance. Let`s do the right thing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

We all have to think if capitalism was not strong in America with its belief in putting out a helping hand when a country has a disaster and just for feeding the poor around the world then America could not do it, Do not get me wrong I myself am out of a Job like so many others, but I believe in Helping the Poor countries always giving grants and food and blankets cloths this all comes from capitalism, free enterprise, everyone should think twice before they knock down this way of Life, I believe strongly in taxing being equal in all countries, but when You have countries who allow cheap labor such as China and others in Asian countries, they have it low to dirt cheap so they can make companies come into their countries, I say do not protest Capitalism, Protest all the countries that do this Like China Japan South Korea, We need rules to make all countries Equal, if not then America should close out all trade agreements with all countries that re not equal to its taxation and its Pay scales and its Medical requirements, this is also another way to assure no more Human trafficking, then if we do all this we can Guarantee, a good way of Life, if not let each country who do not comply sell all their goods in their own country and do not allow those countries to export any goods, let the countries each and every one of them who do comply, close their borders from allowing any goods into their country and then you will see an Orderly trend of all countries come into compliance, this is what should be Protesting around the world, Not corporate America as it is Corporate America which allows People in all countries like Africa, Philippines, Korea, North and South, Japan, China and all the rest, Yes take away Corporate America and you take away the international food program and so many more, if you want to Protest, Protest Bio-fuel, do you know the reason food prices are to the point we cannot afford to buy food, it is because it cost $30,00 in food to make one (1) Gallon of Ethanol and more to make Biodiesel, Do you realize the International Food Bank is feeding fifty million people less in 2010 then in 2003 because of this as it is because the food such as corn and Potatoes and all others are being sold now to make fuel making food prices higher by twice their net worth and cutting in half the food banks, Look at the price of flower, it has tripled potatoes have doubled twice, how can we stand for this, we are literally taking the food out of the mouth of every person that in not in first class, every one else the second class the Poor and the beggars cannot eat a proper diet because of Bio-Fuel, Wake Up World and Lets get our Protest under the Proper Banner!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sweet! 200 out of 12,000,000 means like 0.0000002% of Tokyo gives a d@mn!

Sweet! Japan!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

This is just the beginning, did they really think they could just take away a man's house, job & income, change his status from middle class to lower class in a blink of an eye and expect him to just bend over and say thank you? Time to get medieval on these 1%

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@japan gal I usually like your posts too, but it seems that u grouped way to many kinds of people together here. I respect your ryt to free speech, however we can now see that u feel that u r better than a lot of productive workers that contribute in a positive way. There r two kinds of people in this world. People who wanna work and people who dont. People who dont, r basically the ones who have joined this protest.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Um. The movements behind the Iron Curtain enunciated their demands. Down with the Communist Party. Freedom from the same, Now.

Anyone who reads the founding document of the Czech "Velvet" Revolution -- Charter 77 -- knows that it made no demands whatsoever. It specifically avoided the kind of political confrontation falsely claimed above.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Where is the profit in giving loans to people who can't afford it?

Oh come on...really? For awhile, the lending agencies were making plenty of profits on such loans.

Let's say a bank owns a piece of property including a house. They could just let the thing sit idle OR they could get someone to pay them on a monthly basis for it either by renting or a mortgage. At no time does the person actually get the capital value of the house as a loan; if the person can't pay, they lose everything and the bank gains back the property and everything that the person paid them.

Anyone who has ever seen how mortgages are scheduled for payback, knows that all of the interest payments are front-loaded so that the person paying the loan acquires very little equity in the property. After one year of a 15-year mortgage, the bank still owns nearly 99% of the property. So what if the person defaults? The property has risen in value and the bank has acquired some nice interest payments on what otherwise would have been an empty house.

The game works as long as property values keep increasing. Once the crap hits the fan, and gets serious enough, people start taking to the streets -- and rightfully so. The greatest transfer of wealth in human history came via the housing market of the United States over the past 50 years -- from lower and middle-class Americans to the financial firms. It's no surprise that a collapse of values was "engineered" just as baby boomers are heading into their retirement years and where many need to cash in on those homes.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ Uwe Paschen

There have been several demonstration through out Tokyo, Some where more docile and other more aggressive. The demands ranged from a Free Palestinian state with in the borders of 1967, to the abolition of the veto rights at the UN. Also demanded was better social laws and protections of the work force from abuses from the industries and banks. Universal medical care and the abolition of nuclear power as well as fossil fuels where demanded along with clear policies to fix the environment and promote clean renewable energies. Social justice was demanded as well as the right to try in court all bankers and stock brokers that where involved in the melt down and that caused great harm to the public at large. Direct democracy was also demanded along with the right to make decisions through referendums on all public and national or international matters. Some demanded that TPP should be abandoned for now. The seizure of all assets of TEPCO and its Top management was asked for by some. I took notes of all the demands and also pictures of the posters used in the demonstration.

Thanks for going on the streets and letting us know what the protestors are protesting for, Thanks again.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@the Question

but there are some legitimate reasons for me wanting to see some coherent policies.

And there are legitimate reasons to frustrate people like you by not making those clear yet.

You know or should know reasons why they are angry. Think up your own solutions.

Got a problem, don't work for them.

As history proves, there is always some scab ready to take your place. That method is just passing the buck until it comes right back around to you again.

It's more of a curiosity. With no actual goals the protests basically amount to unfocused dissatisfaction, not much to fear.

Look up "The French Revolution". Nothing is more scary than a movement of raw discontent moving in seemingly random directions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Notthesame - For now, it is enough that they are putting the fear of God into the hearts of the greedy and the corrupt. Let the rich man find his own way to appease them. Or the rich man may try to crush them. I can only hope that blows up in his face if he tries.

I doubt that any of these mobs within a mob are puting the fear of God into anyone except maybe property owners concerned with damage from violence and sanitation crews who have to clean up the fecal matter protestors are leaving in the streets.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Oh come on...really? For awhile, the lending agencies were making plenty of profits on such loans.

My point is in your response, "For awhile". Many banks and loan institutions were pushed to the brink of collapse due to the losses they had experienced due to the foreclosures, and rightly so. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had been playing the housing game fast and loose with the approval of the U.S government for decades creating phantom growth in the housing market.

Without the tax incentive of giving loans to low income earners private banks never would have done it. It's bad business. Corporations are in the game for long term profit, not short term gain, lending regulations skewed the rules and the rest is history. The logical end should have been the dissolution of the principal institutions responsible but considering Fannie and Freddie are Government Sponsored Entities/Enterprises no such thing was allowed to happen. The people responsible for the crash are still in power and its all thanks to our friends in DC.

The game works as long as property values keep increasing.

One of the main problems with your explanation is the reliance on the property values remaining on the rise. They collapsed, as I recall, and the government, unfortunately, bailed them out. They lost billions. They should have collapsed but instead they were allowed to remain, mucking up the works for everyone else.

You know or should know reasons why they are angry. Think up your own solutions.

I can say quite honestly that you would not like my solutions.

As history proves, there is always some scab ready to take your place.

What's you're point? Obviously the person that took your job wanted it more than you did anyway. You wanted more money, the owner didn't want to give you more money, you leave, somebody else that is content with your old pay takes you're place. That’s how it's supposed to work. What's the problem here? You obviously didn't want to work for that wage anyway and now you don't have to. Plus now the business has a new worker and somebody else has a new job. Everybody wins, now you can go find a job that pays what you think you're worth.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

dharmadan - So, this is a movement of the less intelligent?

A very good question. It's definately a movement of the uninformed and clueless. They should be protesting their elected representatives. Some of them complain that they took out loans (or their parents did) for their education and now they don't want to pay those loans back. Others are complaining that they don't have free housing or free energy and expect someone else to pay for their housing and energy and more importantly, their iphone bills.

It's several mobs within a mob and when (IF) they establish goals, the other mob members will protest those goals. They will fail from within. I don't see this "protest" amounting to much of anything, certainly not a voting block that could actually change the laws.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Foxie - If the 99% would demonstrate, then something would change.

If the protestors actually represented 99% of something, they might be able to induce change.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

yabits - Just because you have a desperate need for someone to tell you what to do, doesn't mean everyone does. In fact, it's just that need for daily -- nay, hourly -- instruction and validation that gives the right-wing talk shows their life.

The OWS movement doesn't have a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or anyone else playing the role of propaganda minister. And that fact bugs the right-wingers to pieces because it provides them with no clear target to attack.

Everyone in the U.S. can pick a phone and contact their 2 U.S. Senators and their U.S. Representative. They have representation IF THEY WANT IT. Smoking and banging drums isn't going to change anything but I suppose it's still a great way to find a date to the homeless ball.

This movement will collapse in on itself once it starts to identify it's goals.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This movement will collapse in on itself once it starts to identify it's goals.

Interesting hypothesis. I suppose it's easy to gather people to support vaguely defined goals - politicians do it all the time; they can talk for hours while saying nothing in particular.

Once the details come out ... I won't be surprise if the OWS movement splinters into opposing factions.

This is the problem with the world. A lot of people have opinions, differing opinions. How to resolve such a situation?

Democracy? Let the masses decide? But when it comes to more complicated subjects, only a small handful knows what they are talking about. Voting in this case doesn't seem like such a good idea.

/shrug

Anyway the only solution to all these protests IMHO, is not to listen to the protesters, but to fix the economy. Once the economy is back on track, the protests will automatically stop. The majority of people only bother to whine, complain and offer "solutions" when things aren't going well, but are otherwise apathy to how things are run in their countries.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he doubted Canadians would be as angry as their neighbors to the south as Canadian banks have not received a U.S.-type bailout

Except that's a lie. He gave the banks a $75 billion bailout and the controlled media never took him up on it. It's all out there if you look for it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If some of the poster here can't figure out the demands of the protesters, they must be leading lives of remarkable perfection...and isolation.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

more money and greed is not the answer to money and greed. There are too many issues that for too long have been put under the rug. That rug is being pulled open.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan will be last. There is a reason it's called Japan Inc.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Everyone in the U.S. can pick a phone and contact their 2 U.S. Senators and their U.S. Representative. They have representation IF THEY WANT IT.

OK, I get it. The reason why not a single person has been held accountable for the terrible financial misdealings on Wall Street is because not a single American thought of picking up the phone and calling his or her representatives.

One thing we do know about politicians: They do listen when there's numbers to back up whatever "suggestions" are presented.

This movement will collapse in on itself once it starts to identify it's goals.

I suppose that is what you would probably do, but these people are different. They have started something that has great meaning for themselves and many, many thousands of other people. They (and we) are up against a system that is pervasively bad as what those in Czechoslovakia and Poland faced. (And isn't it great the Polish freedom fighter Lech Walensa has lent his support?! He knows a good cause when he sees one.)

Winter will come and the numbers on the streets will decrease, and right-wing defenders of the corrupt system will take that as a sign that the movement has "failed." (They need so desperately to believe that.) Actually, the movement will just move off the streets and into cafes and meeting houses -- ready to emerge in force again, stronger than ever, just like Prague Spring.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Anyway the only solution to all these protests IMHO, is not to listen to the protesters, but to fix the economy. Once the economy is back on track, the protests will automatically stop.

I can the reasoning for that, but I would hope not. I would hope that people are smart enough to realize that the financial collapse was just a warning call -- and that returning to business as usual is not going to suffice, as it would just be biding time until the next disaster.

What is as likely to happen is that economy will not improve and that more desperate and angry people will take to the streets. A hopeful and successful model of change is to be found in the Czech Velvet Revolution. However, based upon U.S. history and our national character, I believe we are more likely to follow the route taken by Chile. Chile had a strong, republican-representative government for well over 100 years before electing a socialist with a marxist past as president in 1970. The hard right-wingers saw this as a threat to the nation's constitution and the military eventually used this as a reason to take control of the country. They killed an awful lot of people who they felt were opposed to their form of "free market capitalism."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Many banks and loan institutions were pushed to the brink of collapse due to the losses they had experienced due to the foreclosures, and rightly so.

Not even close, Question.

The institutions were pushed to collapse not because of the losses on the foreclosures: while painful, the economy could have adjusted for that relatively easily.

No, what really brought the house down was how the financial firms then took low-quality loans and mixed them together with a hodge-podge of other loans into abstruse financial instruments such as credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations. They got ratings agencies to assign a "triple-A" rating to many of these instruments so that they could be further leveraged for additional borrowing. Then there were the derivatives and financial insurance policies (mainly via AIG) on top of that.

All this was based on the "experts'" assurance that housing/property values in the United States had not seen a decline since the 1930s and therefore would always keep rising in value. It had nothing to do with poor people who couldn't pay their loans. The banks built a house of cards on the faulty premise of ever-rising housing prices and used other people's money to gamble on it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton made a reference to the New York protest in a speech at The Economic Club of New York.

The protests happening just a few miles from here ought to be a reminder to all of us that we have a great deal of work to do to live up to the expectations of the American people,” she said Friday.

She is referring to the American Jobs Act. The party of NO needs to start doing their job as they were elected to do. The whole story was totally misunderstood by many JT bloggers who do not even have guts to stand up against TEPCO abuse and J. gov lies. Many on JT are PUSSY CATS!! Shoganaii? LOL.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

yabits - OK, I get it. The reason why not a single person has been held accountable for the terrible financial misdealings on Wall Street is because not a single American thought of picking up the phone and calling his or her representatives.

One thing we do know about politicians: They do listen when there's numbers to back up whatever "suggestions" are presented.

That must be why the Democrats were handed such a huge defeat during the midterm elections. The taxpaying voters were overjoyed with the Dems voting records.

A call for mass protests on Saturday originated a month ago from a meeting in Spain, where mostly young and unemployed people angry at the country’s handling of the economic crisis have been demonstrating for months. It was reposted on the Occupy Wall Street website and has been further amplified through social media.

It doesn't really matter where this Occupy "someplace" mob originated. There are 310 million people in the U.S. and 25,000 cities. This Occupy movement doesn't represent 99% of them. I doubt that they represent 99% of themselves. The easy part is getting a lot of lonely protestors to show up. It's next to impossible to get them to agree to anything. I hope they find someplace warm for the winter, some place other than mom and dad's basement.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

globalwatcher - She is referring to the American Jobs Act. The party of NO needs to start doing their job as they were elected to do. The whole story was totally misunderstood by many JT bloggers who do not even have guts to stand up against TEPCO abuse and J. gov lies. Many on JT are PUSSY CATS!! Shoganaii? LOL.

Are you suggesting that the party of NO was listening to their constituants, the people who elected them and not to the progressive movement that the voters so thoughly rejected in the last midterm election?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the people who elected them and not to the progressive movement that the voters so thoughly rejected in the last midterm election?

arrestpaul, I am not in a position to predict any political outcome of 2012.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Something is definitely rotten in Denmark. I think we can all agree on that. Regardless of who protests and if they have jobs or not, there wouldn't be so much anger toward corporations and banks if they did everything for the good of their country. If you owe or play by the rules and keep up to date on payments, one thing is for certain - banks have everyone by the proverbial "balls". Is the system fair? ... Ask yourself and ye shall find thy answer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can say quite honestly that you would not like my solutions.

Really? Well The Question, that is certainly no way to have a discussion. Also, from what you wrote above that, I can imagine solutiions such as getting our money back from Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, even if it means they fall apart, and also trailing the money to individuals and getting money back from them too... plus interest. I sure never favored the bailouts.

I can tell you that I never favored giving loans to people who could not afford them...or credit cards for that matter either. The rules need a complete overhaul. An example is myself. I got a bad credit rating for one thing: late payments of student loans. I paid six months behind and six months ahead in big lump sums. My collection agency did not like that. But hey, I did not get my loan from a collection agency. I got it from a bank. My graduation present was that the loan was sold and the interest rate went up, before I had a chance to pay a dime or get a job. But I still payed it all off years early but remained blacklisted. I got no credit for all the advance payments I made, and all grief for the late ones (and probably also grief for fairly dodging interest with early payments). Yet, there are people who got loans and credit cards and defaulted and no one saw it coming from them? I am sure there is more they can do to separate people like those from people like me. I am also sure there is more they can do to avoid pissing people like me off so that I play along.

That’s how it's supposed to work. What's the problem here?

The problem is that people have to eat. The only way for people to guarantee a decent wage in the laissez-faire system you describe is to strike and, somehow, make sure there are too few scabs to make a difference. But people can only strike for so long before their bellies start to rumble. Then they are broken and will take a raw deall just to get food in their mouths. Its happened many many times.

People should be paid by the value of their labor, not paid what they can be manipulated down to by people who hold most of the cards not by actually doing the work, but just by having ownership. A fair wage cannot be determined by a revolving door of workers stopping at the lowest bidder who is invariably desperate.

And last, if you have not noticed, mass protest is breaking out over this system. Strife is very likely to ensue for them, and they may get nothing for it. Meanwhile, the one percent will most likely go on like nothing is happening and still come out ahead. Eventually, there is going to be bloodshed on both sides. That is what is wrong.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The rich in the USA have been screwing the rest of the country for way, way too long! The hard working people in the USA are finally waking up to this reality, no matter what Rush says and his brain washed ditto heads say, we have too many working poor in the USA, work, work, work 2 or 3 jobs and this is just enough to barely survive, while those in Washington DC do not have to pay for their health insurance, get raises every few months, because they get to VOTE on their own SALARIES?? I do want to use a few !^#^#*^!!!! but that would only bring big brother moderator to delete this comment so I will try to keep it civilized but maybe you all get the point, enough is a enough!! If you can vote in the USA, time to vote the parasites in Washington out of office ASAP! Trickle down theory from the Reagan era?? I can only imagine a few things that actually will trickle down from the rich to the poor, and it sure aint $$$$$!!!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Corporations own all the media in the world. Why should they not own all the education as well?" an activist who identified himself as Joe Hill yelled sarcastically.

In the US, "they" do own the education in public schools.

It's called "the Teacher's Union".

This protester sounds like a product of it:

History? Selective. Working skills? Minimal. Problem solving philosophy? The wizard should fix it, or pay!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I got a bad credit rating for one thing: late payments of student loans.

Notthesame, yay, you did a good job to take care of that.

I am sure you have been aware of the fact that the fed. student loan is NOT excused from bankruptcy. It will hung around your neck like a death sentence until you pay that off . Employers will check credit ratings on student loans before hiring. Many JT Japanese bloggers do not understand what motivated these students to protest. They have a good reason to protest. They need jobs, so they can pay these student loans back.

FYI, the average American students outstanding loan amount is $47,000. Med Students loan is about $250,000-$350,000.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Folks, whats been happening over the last 30yrs is a continuous change in the distribution of wealth!

There will always be poor, middle class & rich, I have no problems with any of them, things is as long as its MOSTLY FAIR across the spectrum it works reasonably well.

The problem of the last 30yrs is the rich have CHANGED the distribution of wealth so TON$$$$$$$$ of money now resides at their end of the scale, simply put its unsustainable period!

I have no problem with the rich being rich BUT when they start taking MORE than they are worth & falsly believe they are earning it, I have a problem & this problem is now a HUGE PROBLEM! The rich & powerful since the 80s have simply been pilfering from the system.

This has resulted in damage to workers, companies, countries, economies, ti needs to be fixed.

The choice now is for the rich/powerful & govts, do they want to start fixing this, if they DONT, then it will start from the lower levels, and sadly it will get violent, I dont condone this but I predict it & have for some time now.

So rich, powerful, govts WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

that is the question

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I am sure you have been aware of the fact that the fed. student loan is NOT excused from bankruptcy

Nope. First I heard of that. That is pretty crazy too.

And while I am at it I will emphasize the fact that I was not rewarded for early payments to balance out my late payments. Why? Why is because they make more money if I pay on time and even more if I pay late fees. And so, as early payments are of no profit to them, my credit rating is not improved for it. The credit rating system is not there to fairly guage people. Its there to screw us. And some people are so proud of their credit rating, like momma gave them a gold star or something. It costs them nothing to give you a good credit rating. It only costs you.

And this also reminds me of checking account fees, just another screw. They take your money, profit off the interest, then have the nerve to turn around and demand payment for making money off of your money?? I have no doubt that is also in the minds of many protestors. I had an account drained that way once. I had no idea I had gone into a negative balance. Months later I get a telephone call after they have racked up some profit. So basically, they charged me money for nothing, as there was no money in the account. I did not even bounce a check! So they did nothing, but charged me for it anyway!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It costs them nothing to give you a good credit rating. It only costs you.

Very true, Notthesame.

This sounds crazy, but you continue to keep these credit cards for a small purchase. NEVER CLOSE THEM AS IT WILL END UP COSTING YOU. So many people do not know this...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Occupy Wall Street: A MANIFESTO

The CORPORATE-OWNED MEDIA has been MISLEADING people by telling everyone our objectives are UNCLEAR. THAT IS A LIE. We have been very clear. Superduper clear, in fact. Can't you, like, read our signs? Some of them are really witty, too; you should check them out.

Anyhow. Just to make sure there is NO MORE MISUNDERSTANDING, here are our demands (as of October 14, 2011):

(*) END CORPORATE GREED. Corporate greed is responsible for most of the poverty and suffering on this planet. (The bubonic plague and the Cambodian killing fields? Don't use your patriarchal "logic" on us, fascist.)

(*) FREE HEALTH CARE for everybody. Starting RIGHT NOW!

(*) CANCELLATION OF ALL DEBTS, but especially student debts. Corporations have no right to expect anything just because we agreed to pay the money back.

(*) IMMEDIATE REGULATION OF WALL STREET. Real regulation this time, like what Roseanne Barr said: Hand over the money or we cut off your head, pig.

(*) Universal peace, love, tolerance and understanding.

(*) No more offshoring.

(*) Also, no more racism! No more pollution! No more war!

(*) In order to increase domestic manufacturing employment, repeal NAFTA and all other free-trade agreements.

(*) A social wage. (Social wage = you get money just for BEING ALIVE.)

(*) Fair taxation of rich people so they pay their fair share. ("Fair" = 2(n), where n = top marginal rate, whatever that happens to be at the moment.)

(*) Education is a human right.

Just search for "objective manifesto occupy wall street" for more thorough information! Don't be lazy :)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I can the reasoning for that, but I would hope not. I would hope that people are smart enough to realize that the financial collapse was just a warning call -- and that returning to business as usual is not going to suffice, as it would just be biding time until the next disaster.

A "fact of life" is the world is large and complicated. It's unreasonable to expect, and impossible for, a person to "know it all".

People are in general completely ignorant of things outside their field of specialization. It can't be helped.

Sure they might know bits and pieces of subjects outside of their field, but when it comes to complicated subjects "bits and pieces" just don't cut it in drawing factually correct conclusions - and this "little bit of knowledge" can be quite dangerous if combined with an obliviousness to the fact that they do not have the whole picture.

Hence, even in a Democracy, people have to exercise a certain amount of blind faith in their leaders and the authorities in general in order for society to function smoothly - and IMO "backseat driving" is not a good idea, especially when the backseat drivers have never set foot in driving school.

Right now the amount of faith the people have in their governments has drop considerably due to economic crisis.

The way we humans select our leaders is not a logical rigorous process. The leader who gets elected and maintains power, is the one that can commands the greatest amount of the people's (blind) faith - and more or less just that. Hence the results are pretty much hit and miss. The current economical meltdown is one of those misses.

Thus unless someone finds some way to increase the intelligence and information processing capacity of the human brain, this limitation of our "political system" is here to stay. So you can pretty much expect more "disasters" to come.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A "fact of life" is the world is large and complicated. It's unreasonable to expect, and impossible for, a person to "know it all". People are in general completely ignorant of things outside their field of specialization. It can't be helped...Sure they might know bits and pieces of subjects outside of their field, but when it comes to complicated subjects "bits and pieces" just don't cut it in drawing factually correct conclusions - and this "little bit of knowledge" can be quite dangerous if combined with an obliviousness to the fact that they do not have the whole picture.

Nobody has "the whole picture." I am not trying to expound on the benefits of ignorance, but few things are as dangerous as thinking you have anything close to a whole picture when surrounded by "experts" who know their separate areas of specialization but who can't connect the dots. In my line of work (systems analysis), I see it all the time.

Hence, even in a Democracy, people have to exercise a certain amount of blind faith in their leaders and the authorities in general in order for society to function smoothly

A company, society, or planet headed for a great calamity (human-caused) should not be functioning "smoothly." Any more than a person in the back seat should remain quiet while the driver is undertaking reckless and dangerous moves.

Thus unless someone finds some way to increase the intelligence and information processing capacity of the human brain, this limitation of our "political system" is here to stay

I don't believe that is necessary. The part of the brain that is the source of intuition can supply much of what we need to counteract the arrogance of the expert. What is needed is a new philosophy.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The part of the brain that is the source of intuition can supply much of what we need to counteract the arrogance of the expert.

It is why it is said that the best diagnostician is the one who can "sense" that his initial diagnosis might be wrong, and who can go back to square one to analyze the issue again.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Qomolangma, well, I guess demands are on the way. But some of those are simply impossible as actual demands. But I am sure that over time the list will get more clear and specific, and I look forward to that.

I would like to see "no more war" changed to something like a reduction of American bases and presence overseas, such as a 50 percent target in personnel and number of bases and no base may be expanded to make up the difference. Also an immediate reduction in military spending perhaps 20 percent now and more later.

Also to have every dime returned from the bailouts with interest, and just to be on the safe side, no company that took a bailout can lay anyone off or reduce floor worker salaries. The repayment must come from profit and exec salaries, and anyone involved with funny accounting will get 5 years prison.

Stuff like that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

tokyokawasaki

Thanks for those links (above), clearest assessment yet! I sincerely hope more protest.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ron Paul 2012!

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Notthesame, if I may pinpoint further some fundamental overhauls to current faulty and corrupted conditions/systems, the movement must include among other below aspects in their objectives for better life of American people, better American govt, better & safer world!

-To reduce the overseas military bases to only few from the current state of hundreds.

-To reduce the total annual military budget from the current figure of over US$1 trillion to 30% of it (at most), to relocate the budget for better uses for the sake of people welfare & livelihood! The total military budget at present is bigger than the budget of ALL countries combined; 8 times of the combined Russia & China's budgets!

-To audit and regulate the Federal Reserve, instead of the current PRIVATE ownership by those banking families, the USA should nationalize it!

-To terminate all the lobbying powers (all kinds of political lobbyists) in the Congress and White House; limit the terms of the Representative and Congress members to two times at maximum

-To overhaul the Judicial system; limit the terms of ANY judicial personnel, no lifetime assigment!

-To limit the amount of all kinds of political donations by any individual or corporate; all political donations must be transparent, being well recorded and reported; limit the budget or expenses tha can be spent by any Representative/Congressman/Presidential candidate and so on

-To overhaul the political party to allow more than two parties, voting system to better reflect one man one vote (not like the current faulty system whereas "the winner takes all" -- just recall the Bush's highly controversial razor-thin victory over Al Gore), to allow independent candidate in all political spectrums

-To nationalize the healthcare service

-To stop all the interventions into other country's domestic affairs; stop to act as the self-appointed world police! To stop the jingoism, the unjustifiable wars against any other country/nation.

The list may go even longer... :) In the essence, I just wonder why it's so hard for the 99% to recognize and identify the flaws, faulty and corrupted systems in the USSA at present -- the facts and actual situation are just getting worse and they are even so naked!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Here's an interesting article by Brandon Smith, 10/15/2011

BREAKING POINTS: RECOGNIZING THE SIGNS OF PAINFUL CULTURAL SHIFT

Through the ages, nations and cultures of spectacular proportion and prominence have risen to prosperity, and fallen to chaos, on very particular and fundamental principles. In some cases, these great and terrible declines have taken centuries to culminate (as was the story of the Roman Empire), and only a few years in others (the Soviet Union comes to mind). In every example of societal destabilization, however, there were many signs of danger long before the final plunge; some unique to each particular culture, and some common to all. One of the most enduring and frightening similarities between crumbling nations is an overwhelming belief amongst the people that they have somehow “advanced” beyond the need for concern. Each self-destructing society presumed itself invincible. Each country thought itself the pinnacle of human potential, only to discover yet again that in abandoning or subverting the principles of freedom, and the bedrock pillars of conscience, reason, and wisdom, they had become merely another footnote in a long marathon of footnotes...

1) The Rise Of Moral Relativism

2) The Displacement Of Cultural Subsections

3) Distraction Over Substance

4) When Law Becomes Tyranny

5) Force Over Reason

6) False Paradigms And Mistaken Enemies

7) Desperation And Loss Of Will

Look for it and read it by yourself, i just don't think it's decent (and permitted) to paste the entire article here :) just search the title at ALT-MARKET dotcom.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

My take on the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

In an era of social networking, what we all seek is communication and most importantly the truth. It is time when the media can no longer blanket message the masses. Instead we have created our own media, we have found our own voice.

I believe we cannot identify what what the Occupy Wall Street Movement is about because they're are a multitude of reasons to be there. These sit-ins have people sharing ideas and experiences. These are good people. They are not morons or ignoramuses. I think you'd have to be there, to sit with them, to hear the stories. This could be you.

I don't think it's fair to criticize these protesters. We simply don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes and / or how they got funneled into it. Everyone knows that you can be the master of your demise. They say if you fall it's your fault and we are content to think that we are better than those who fall. Yet we fail to see what plays the greatest part in one's fall, that is GRAVITY. Gravity can be compared to the system, we can't see it's hand at work but we know it's there. It's always at work and the one thing we know for sure....The one sure thing we know is....The system has been designed to bring us down like gravity.

Everything we do in life has been to defy gravity. We as a society trying to build more, go faster, fly higher, and most of all overcome. We know recognize that the 1% are trying to keep us down. It is up to this society to overcome those that would strive to bring us down. That's what I think it means (Not mentioning specifics).

I propose a toast - to the Gordon Geckos of the world. Lets give them a taste of their own medicine.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pamelot,

I found a funny comic for you to read (Third entry down).

http://actuallyyourethe47percent.tumblr.com/page/2

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Qomolangma, I can't actually tell if you're being serious or not with that 'manifesto.' It seems like you're speaking soley in clichés. Anyway, in a nutshell the protests are largely a load of rubbish - basically blind opportunitism to join a protest because it was trending on Twitter or something.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They got ratings agencies to assign a "triple-A" rating to many of these instruments so that they could be further leveraged for additional borrowing. Then there were the derivatives and financial insurance policies (mainly via AIG) on top of that.

All of which was approved by the SEC. On their own none of those practices are particularly problematic, they've been going on through booms and busts for decades, it was the toxic housing market that lit the fire.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

All of which was approved by the SEC.

Not even close again. First, the SEC does not approve each and every rating assigned by every ratings agency. Not hardly.

Second, under Bush and the Republicans, the SEC was cut and directed not to interfere with "business as usual." They were intentionally under-staffed in a time when new financial instruments and deregulation made oversight a much greater necessity.

On their own none of those practices are particularly problematic, they've been going on through booms and busts for decades, it was the toxic housing market that lit the fire.

Uh, derivatives have not been around for decades. They are a relatively new financial instrument, and one of the primary reasons why a collapse of the U.S. housing market took down Iceland and brought other nations to the brink. Some have called derivatives the financial equivalent of weapons of mass destruction, with good reason.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

From Beinart's article on the seismic impact of the Occupy movement:

This past weekend, in 900 cities across the world, tens of thousands demonstrated against unregulated capitalism. Something fascinating is growing, and by the time it ends, I suspect, politics will be different in the United States and a lot of other places as well.

In a great many countries, especially in the West, the political grass is dry. Huge numbers of young people are unemployed, governments are launching harsh and unpopular austerity programs, and the financial elites responsible for the global economic meltdown have almost entirely escaped justice. Millions of articulate, educated, tech-savvy people are enraged and desperate. And they have time on their hands.

.....

One reason is that the existence of a powerful, global, communist adversary made it difficult for [1960s] New Left activists to criticize American foreign policy and American capitalism without being branded communists themselves. A second reason is that the protests of the late 1960s coincided with massive cultural upheavals: revolutions in the relationship between whites and blacks, men and women, gays and straights, young and old, and a rising sense of disorder in America’s families and streets. The protesters of the late 1960s became a symbol of this disorder and thus became culturally threatening in a way that transcended their actual political demands.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

yabits - From Beinart's article on the seismic impact of the Occupy movement:

This past weekend, in 900 cities across the world, tens of thousands demonstrated against unregulated capitalism. Something fascinating is growing......

Something is growing alright and I think it's Beinart's nose. Where do you suppose Beinart got his numbers from?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Where do you suppose Beinart got his numbers from?

Here's the dishonesty behind your question: If the actual number was greater than 900, you'd still be disparaging the movement.

The 900 number figured in several prominent articles in major newspaper like the Washington Post. I find it laughable that someone who presents a Breitbart film as evidence of anything would question the veracity of a journalist of Beinart's stature.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Seriously, Ron Paul is the only Presidential candidate that I really perceive as above "politics" in the traditional American sense. He is openly mocked by the media for what he represents and offers to the American people;sadly, so many people are influenced easily by the mass media so they just dismiss him as a serious candidate. His beliefs are extreme (relatively), but they are backed up with education and reason. I hope that someday his methodology and immunity to corporate influence will become a major part of American politics.

This is related because the report is about people who are tired of politicians being puppets of corporations.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

yabits - Here's the dishonesty behind your question: If the actual number was greater than 900, you'd still be disparaging the movement.

The 900 number figured in several prominent articles in major newspaper like the Washington Post. I find it laughable that someone who presents a Breitbart film as evidence of anything would question the veracity of a journalist of Beinart's stature.

Hahahaha. Are you saying that a REPRINTING of the original artilcle in other publications is somehow proof that the original article's numbers are correct? It must be true because you read the same article a dozen times? Where is the list of cities that Beinart used to come up with these numbers?

Occupy "something" protestor Hall was NOT reading a Breitbart script. Those were Hall's delusional ravings. Breitbart was only holding the camera.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

ARREST ALL THESE BUMS.. i live in America... and the hippies protesters were trashing the entire area, defecating on police cars... having sex in the streets.... arrest these bums who just happen to be a bunch of Democrat liberal bums

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

they usually say we don't mind our Business, well if they Looked they would see the same thing in their country. what does protesting actually DO?! IF the Government does make wallstreet pay more taxes & restrict them in several areas its only gonna improve America.so much for people wanting to see US "Fail" give it a few months there will be other protests like this around the world, many protesters like Jumping Band wagons.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

ARREST ALL THESE BUMS..

Great solution!

Shove them all in prisons!

That'll teach them a lesson!

NOT!

All that will do will give many of them a graduate course in how to be a criminal, connections they can use if they want to do criminal work and hike the taxpayers' bill.

There is a problem here that has to be addressed.

The U.S.A.' debts are finally catching up to it. And its producing less and less.

In the 50's and 60's, with the exception of certain people in some Southern States, the U.S.A. was a very comfortable and affluent society, it was the American dream. Work hard and you can own two cars and put three kids through college without your wife having to work.

Now it's turning into a rico pobre society. The superrich are struggling to keep what they have and the guys at the other end of the scale have literally nothing. No one listens to them. Politicians who are supposed to represent them don't, because it's much more profitable to listen to the superrich.

Read or re-read the Grapes of Wrath, for what's happening on a large scale.

If the government wants to do something about it, creating jobs, a means for people to make money would go a long way to solving the problem. I was talking to a US serviceman from North Carolina. I asked him why he was serving with US forces and his answer was, "What choice do we have? Sell drugs or join the military?"

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

David,

Defecating on police cars? Really? That's an outright lie and you know it. There are armies of photographers and television news crews at the protests 24 hours a day. If someone took a dump on a police car, we'd have photos. Same with the sex. Same with the drugs. Same with the satanic rituals or whatever else undereducated mindless Republicans assume is happening out there.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

HumanTarget - Defecating on police cars? Really? That's an outright lie and you know it. There are armies of photographers and television news crews at the protests 24 hours a day. If someone took a dump on a police car, we'd have photos.

A picture of an OWS supporter defecating on a police car was published by MailOnline 9th October 2011. There are also pictures of the trash and filth that the OWS live in. Mail Online also said the many of the photo's they've see were too graphic to show the public. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html#ixzz1aDQdbK4S

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bring back the draft for women and men

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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