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Proxy wedding means Marine's Japanese widow, baby unwelcome in U.S.

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Certainly a clear case where the spirit of the law is trumped by the letter of the law. Doesn't matter what country you are in, courts really need to pull their heads out of their butts and rule on what is right, which is not necessarily the letter of the law.

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i read about this awhile ago. this is just wrong. the US needs to get it together!!! the boy`s father died for his country!!!!!!!!

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Meanwhile the U.S. turns a blind eye to the illegals entering through the southern border and even gives them a free education, driver's licenses, access to medical care, etc. Way to treat one of your soldiers America!

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Though neither knew much of the other’s language, something clicked.

What clicked was he was her ticket out of Okinawa and he was a naive 22 yr old Marine from Farmland, USA and first time off the farm. Exactly the why this law was created. Having being a Marine Corps veteran, how many times have I seen this?

As for the son, yes he should be an automatic for US citizenship based on the father being American. Hotaru san will just have to wait until the son turns 18 and he can sponsor her residency.

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Sounds like SHE is desperate to leave Japan...

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It's tough, but it's also tough for foreign parents whose kids have been kidnapped by the Japanese parent and brought back to Japan, with no hope of the foreign parent seeing their child again.

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Tough for the mother but she has family in Japan that can help with the child rearing. No one has yet suggested that the boy isn't someone elses. In the eyes of the law they aren't legally married. Maybe getting married before having unprotected sex isn't such a bad idea after all.The child is a citizen of Japan not USA at this point.

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"Ticket out of Okinawa"??? Is it really that bad a place? Is Okinawa communist or something? What did I miss?

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i feel for her, immigration laws the world over just suck and dont take into account what a global community we are today. For example in the UK anyone from europe can enter to live freely but my japanese wife has to pay 400pounds for a visa !!! and for a permanent one 1000pounds and she has to do a test. So we live in japan where life is better haha. But anyway the place where immigration laws really suck is in japan! They let nobody in! So if i divorce my wife i will have no right to be here and wil get deport and will never see my kid again. So i feel for her but japan cant really comment on this considering their laws are one of the worst in the world.

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They should let her in, but why is she so desperate to go to the US?

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Having being a Marine Corps veteran, how many times have I seen this?

Are you no longer a Marine Corps veteran?

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thepaceisglacia,

"Meanwhile the U.S. turns a blind eye to the illegals entering through the southern border and even gives them a free education, driver's licenses . . . "

Wrong thread, wrong place, and wrong time for your little half-baked tirade against immigration.

Spudman,

"In the eyes of the law they aren't legally married. Maybe getting married before having unprotected sex isn't such a bad idea after all."

They are married in the eyes of US military law, and the widow is receiving survivors benefits from the US government for her loss. Hence the contradiction apparent with the outdated 1952 law. Also, the baby wasn't an "Oops" as a result of risky, unprotected sex. Having been together for over a year, they decide to have a baby together before he was deployed. Nothing scandalous or illconceived about that.

Lawmakers need to quickly make efforts to rectify this situation for a serviceman who paid the ultimate price for his country.

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@ Nessie, everybody is grammar teacher.

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Somebody needs to step in regarding this case and set things right. If the marriage was good enough for the USMC, it should be good enough for the government. Furthermore, what about extenuating circumstances? The chap was deployed overseas in a combat zone (and ended up being KIA). I hope somebody in power in the US (a congressman or somebody with a strong military pedigree - what about John McCain) gets involved in this.

On the other hand, to do nothing would be failing to honor the memory of this marine who laid down in life.

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This sounds more like Japanese immigration than US immigration.

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I'm confident this issue will be resolved with the woman and the child staying in the US if she wants.

Slizzer you crack me up dogg.

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US immigration is third-world. And getting even worse.

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I'd rather live in Okinawa than the US and A.

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The best chance the family has to get this resolved is to get Tennessee's elected officials involved. You can go around and around with the bureacracy but a call from a Senator's office inquiring on the case gets quick results.

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There is nothing wrong in doing something out of the ordinary, in honor of the soldier. Whether the marriage was true or not, atleast the soldier's parents are supporting her. I don't think there are hundreds of such cases. So why not let the woman stay in US.

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I feel sorry for her and the family...but I am really curious as to why she is SO desperate to leave Japan - to go to what sounds like a family she barely knows, a country it sounds like she has never been to until now and a language she barely speaks?

What on earth is she running from?

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I think it is possible that the son could get citizenship and she could get a visa as his Gaurdian. However, some immigration people in the US (and probably elsewhere) are ultimate wankers who power trip on their ability to determine others' futures.

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This poor young woman. This family's son is gone, she's living with the family and has his baby. The family wants to keep her and the baby there to live, well do it. Send her to a local college as a foreign student to get a degree in something basic and easy to land a job in, pay to have the visa upgraded to a working visa based on degree, and then work 5 years. She'll be able to stay there, support the baby, and be an American citizen.

I would start on this and continue fighting to keep her there without having to go through all those steps. It will make everything much easier.

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She can go into hiding easily.

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@kirakira25

I feel sorry for her and the family...but I am really curious as to why she is SO desperate to leave Japan - to go to what sounds like a family she barely knows, a country it sounds like she has never been to until now and a language she barely speaks?

I think your comment speaks volumes. I too have been curious about this situation. It seems more likely the soldier was just naive guy with little experience and fell for the first girl who gave him some. And he met some girl who may have been a military groupie hoping to get drafted by some soldier. Hoping to live the fantasy life of traveling the world and having haafu children. She can barely speak the language and he could barely speak Japanese. That right there is the wrong way to start a choice that will affect the rest of your life. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Also where is the girls parents in this? She does seem quite desperate to run to America. Just like them getting married and her getting pregnant. My gut tells me she may have been trying to trap him or just anybody. Unfortunately, things didn't goes as planned. Regardless of what happened the child at least has the right to citizenship. The mother....I'm not sure. If the soldiers parents want to help they can still financially support her. Her family can hopefully help out. When both of them are better equipped they can go to the States. For short term and if she chooses hopefully long term.

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Aelieth,

I also agree with your plan about the education. If she wants to be there so bad then work for it. No free rides.

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When it's a Japanese man and a Filipina hostess, it's the Japanese authorities that are wrong, outdated, racist, xenophobic, she and her kids are owed by the Japanese state, What About The Poor Children..... When it's an American man and a Japanese woman, suddenly it's she's a military groupie, she's desperate to leave Japan, she trapped him, the US Immigration are only doing what they law says, what immigration the world over does.....

Can anyone say 'double standards'?

That's not to say I think there's much intelligence in a couple of 20-somethings who are not married and can barely communicate, making babies.

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A lot of people passing judgement on both the widow and marine here without all the facts. Here's a link with more info on the story. Worth a read to go along with one posted in JT.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=64437&archive=true

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I am not sure if you might have seen the news article about the Japanese widow of the Marine soldier that died who wants to raise his son near his parents but cannot enter the U.S. because of a law saying that the marriage was not consumated. Even though the U.S. military recognizes the marriage and they were together for a year in Japan as husband and wife. But it really concerns me that so many illegal immigrants can come to America and have "ANCHOR BABIES" that are U.S. citizens and yet the child of someone that had died defending our precious ways of life and freedoms cannot come to the counrty of his father because of a stupid law that was passed decades ago. If this same standard was held to the population of children that were born on U.S. soil by people that were illegal, the schools and economy of this country would be found wanting. Yet they are allowed to stay because they were born here and this widow and child cannot enter the country? What is wrong with this picture? I am not pulling a race card, or being prejudice by any means, but if the government can close their eyes and extend their hands to help so many illegals in the country the can surely offer support to the family of someone whom has given their life for this country. WHAT A KICK IN THE FACE THAT IS TO SOMEONE WHO PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE FOR HIS COUNTRY. ----- What happened to "YES WE CAN" it should have been labeled " YOU BETTER F@#$ING NOT" -----

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I do apologize about the first sentence of this, It was also posted on other sites and I simply forgot to edit it before posting here. And although it is simply my humble opinion, this is a complete travesty.

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If they are willing to give all these illegals in the US a blanket amnesty, they should at the very least allow this woman to live in the US as unlike many illegals, she has support by the Marine's parents.

As for the son, I don't see a problem, he has American citizenship by law.

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Ninjai

**But it really concerns me that so many illegal immigrants can come to America and have "ANCHOR BABIES" that are U.S. citizens and yet the child of someone that had died defending our precious ways of life and freedoms cannot come to the counrty of his father because of a stupid law that was passed decades ago.

I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this article!!

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This immigration law is wack! Their marriage isn't valid because it wasn't 'consummated'?! This seems very old fashioned. Besides, they have a child together so obviously it was.

I heard about other similar cases like this in the US. It's sad when a law is so strictly adhered to that common sense and compassion are thrown out the window. I think their should be a law against having laws that are more than 30 years old.

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"If she wants to be there so bad then work for it. No free rides."

I don't think having the father of the child you bore blown away in Iraq quite constitutes a "free ride."

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I agree with you LFRAgain..... it is definately not a free ride. If there was a price to be paid for the mother and child to come to America then the fallen soldier paid it in full.

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Techall,

Thanks for the link. It really puts the situation into a clearer light. Yeah, they may have been foolish, but it seems an awful lot like they were fools in love. No crime in that; happens all the time. And it certainly doesn't justify calling the woman a "prositute."

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the definition of spouse does not include a “wife or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony..."

The quoted portion of the US Immigration & Nationality Act is not applicable. This couple married under J law. No ceremony is required.

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Ninjai, Skip, Fishy,

The article and this thread are about Sgt Michael Ferschke, his (according to the United States Marine Corp and the Japanese government) legal wife Hotaru Nakama Ferschke, and a fatherless child.

It is NOT, however, a pulpit for you to grind your tired axes against immigration you deem "illegal," despite naturalization by birth being a long-standing law in the US. I understand the contrast you're trying to make, but you run the risk of taking this thread down an

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. . . unproductive path.

(hit submit too soon)

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Boy, don't some of you need a reality check. Before passing comment on this woman and her background, perhaps you might consider her husband who died for his country. Obviously, she was good enough for him, and he for her. Isn't that all that matters. Moreover, the USMC seems to consider them married, if not so the letter of the law. Also, her child is an American citizen, not an anchor baby. What more do you want? If anything, this story just highlights that sometimes the law is an ass. And in this case, no stone should be left unturned in order that this woman receives her full rights as the spouse of an US serviceman, and her son receives his full rights as an American citizen.

PS - Wrapping yourself in the flag and criticizing people who are unable to defend themselves (either due to language barriers or restrictions such as those imposed on servicemen) is very easy. Strapping it on and serving your country is a whole lot more difficult.

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The child is the child of an American citizen. That's all I need. < :-)

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The child is an American citizen by virtue of the father's citizenship. So the child should be allowed to stay in America, as well as the mother because the child is her dependent.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to do anything about this. Not with the liberal disdain for the military.

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Why should Obama do anything? He didn't step in when his cousin or aunt was trying to get citizenship. That's still being held up. This is a matter of immigration or some other federal agency. < :-)

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He married by proxy. If he didn't want to get married he sure didn't have to do it. He did this by choice. Good grief. < :-)

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Why should Obama do anything?

On compassionate grounds. The child is an American citizen. His father was killed in action while serving with the United States Marine Corps. Politics aside, this makes the father a true American patriot (one who put himself in the line of fire rather than just wrapping himself in the flag for the sake of convenience). Surely the President making a few phone calls and kicking a few heads is warranted in this case.

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@LFRAgain,

I don't think having the father of the child you bore blown away in Iraq quite constitutes a "free ride."

Can you say for certain that their is no way she could got with him for that reason? Don't combine the death of the soldier with the ulterior motives of woman. The death was an unfortunate situation but it doesn't automatically whitewash everything that was going on leading up to the death.

I don't know the whole story but from the information given and my personal experience living in Japan. The story sounds quite familiar. I could be wrong but I could also be right.

If he wouldn't have died there would probably be more people thinking the same about this relationship. Don't let sympathy for the situation cloud your rationale.

@womanforwomen and the rest

The difference is the Japanese husbands are plucking their wives from third world countries to possibly exploit their wives as indentured servants. They are bringing them to a country which would have never allow them to become citizens on their own.

On the other hand, this woman is coming from a supposedly first world country. Who in all appearances running from her home country for reasons no one can understand. The same country where the problem I described happens to the Native men as well as foreign men. Not to mention she always have the possibility to become a citizen of the US like any other person if she chooses. She could go their for school like someone suggested. If the family wants they should support her that way. In the long run, it will be better for her and the child.

She is getting benefits that also includes education. She has something to work with. What do the Filipino women have when their Japanese husbands leave them?

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Maybe a congressman should do this? There are what, over a couple dozen of them. They have many more available individuals to look into it and work it through the maze of channels. Even if Obama wanted it, it still goes through channels. If it didn't and she did wind up being a groupie or prostitute, as some accuse her of, then all crap would hit the fan. < :-)

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@skipthesong

The illegals help our economy whether you like it it or not. They do jobs most won't. Most pay taxes as well. Unlike some of our wealthy legal citizens. If it wasn't illegals we would be paying $9.00 for a head of lettuce than $1.50.

Like, I said give her the benefits let her work for the citizenship like the rest. Take the education route, it will be little longer but the end result will be same except she and her child will be better for it.

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Ooops,

I meant Cleo not womanforwomen!

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SHE WORKED ON THE BASE. She was initally reluctant to date him. Read the Stars & Stripes article.

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Time forthe grand parents to call their congressman. Better yet, their senator. (Yeah, I know, they probably already have...) Surely "son of a dead US Marie" should be able to get some special dispensation. May take a little while, though.

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biglittleman, your comments are right. I fully agree with you.

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Being reluctant meaning nervous worried or not confident doesn't mean she didn't have plans or was hoping to marry military in the future. We don't know if reluctant just meant dating only him because he might have appeared to be a player. Those who are looking for a spouse wants someone who will stay with them. He might not have originally appeared to be keeper.

Whatever her story is the government should not rush into this. It should take its time and review the facts. It maybe a different time but this rule in particular is still applicable.

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> "She said he asked her out that night, but she was wary about dating an American, concerned that cultural differences would be too much of a barrier."

Doesn't sound like an "American Groupie" to me.

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it's so easy to see why she is desperate to leave japan. Japanese culture looks down on unwed mothers or single mothers - especially one with a child who is mixed race. She is embarrased to be living in japan with this baggage.

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Double Standards. Some of you truly need to look at yourselves in the mirror

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Someone up stairs had a good comment. Perhaps the grandparents should approach one of the major networks in America. Imagine "Dead Marine's Son Denied Justice By the INS" or "Dead Marine Hero's Wife Threatened With Deportation" as the lead on the network news just as America is sitting down to dinner. It could be a warm and fluffy fireside chat with the grandparents down on the farm. A few well-placed barbs at the lack of support would be all it takes. The phones would be literally ringing off the hook, especially if some well-placed vets got involved (could you imagine Sen. McCain asking some questions in the Senate).

Handled the right way, this case would be political gold for any politician who got involved at the get-go (the ultimate baby-kissing photo). On the other hand, it would be political poison for any politician who sits on their hands.

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biglittleman,

Ooops, your knowledge of Japanese news is sadly lacking. No one is talking about Japanese men dumping their wives; the incident(s) in question were of Japanese men married to Japanese ladies in Japan making babies with Filipina bar hostesses, and those babies not being eligible for Japanese citizenship because the men did not acknowledge parenthood until after the birth.

in all appearances running from her home country for reasons no one can understand

all appearances? Not at all. Wanting to move from one place to another does not necessarily mean the person is running from the first place. I can well understand her wanting to raise her child in his father's homeland. What I can't understand is wanting to make a baby with someone who appeared to have a bit of a death-wish, or a premonition of his own death. But then I'm no longer 24 and with a head full of romantic fancies.

There is nothing in this story as we have it so far to suggest the girl is a groupie.

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biglittleman,

"Don't let sympathy for the situation cloud your rationale."

Conversely, perhaps you're letting your obvious cynicism cloud your judgement in this.

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biglittelman: this woman is coming from a supposedly first world country. Who in all appearances running from her home country for reasons no one can understand.

What the hey!

"I want our son to know how much his father was loved by so many people," she said. "I realized that it was best to raise him in the environment where his father grew up, so that he would feel his father’s presence and be proud of him."

"My mother, meanwhile, had mixed feelings. She suggested me to raise the baby [on Okinawa] until he finishes elementary school, but I told her that it was important for him to grow up in the same environment as his father, beginning at an early age."

Either you have never been in love, or you have never been in love.

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I don't normally bother, but really this time I can't take it. Some of the comments in this thread are absolutely disgusting. Based solely on the ethnicity, nationality, and the Okinawa/military connection between the two people involved these posters know, just know that she's a gold-digging whore out for nothing more than a green card.

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that all the supposed "moral failings" attributed to the bride are true: she's a military groupie, has a fetish for white guys, was looking to catch the first plane out of Okinawa, was fishing for a green card. Let’s even say she got pregnant on purpose to ensnare the guy and "anchor" herself. Hell, let's double down and say HE was a stereotypical military a-hole with yellow fever who wanted to try out a few of the submissive local girls.

So what?

The law is intended to stop marriage fraud, as in people who pretend they are married in order to get one “partner” a greencard. It is not intended to screen out real marriages based on whatever moral failings YOU might imagine the participants to have. The man had a child with and then legally married the girl (by the standards of both Japan and the Corps - only a legal technicality based on an outdated law has stopped the marriage being recognized by the US government.) He chose to tie himself to the girl and claim the kid as his son, which she intends to raise in his home with his family. That's just about as real as marriage gets. (Never mind that real people marry for things as uncouth as money, lust and social standing all the time…)

Oh, yeah, and courtesy of the Stars and Stripes:

While in Iraq, Michael Ferschke kept a running letter in diary form for his bride. The last page was written only a few hours before he went out on his last mission.

The last sentence was: "I love you."

Shame on you.

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@Cleo

What Japanese news am I missing exactly? The conversation started when you said there is a double standard regarding an American man with Japanese female contrasting that with Japanese men and Filipina. I showed you the difference between this case and the typical J/F-case. The situation is the same no matter how you look at it. The Filipina usually gets the short end of the stick if anything happens to J-father/husband. What did you show me? That instead addressing the statements I have made about it not being a double standard about the Japanese lady and her deceased soldier. You have jumped to a different topic.

You seem to be changing the subject. No one questioned the child's citizenship. If anything it proves my point. The discussion has been about the wife and her initial intentions and how her status in the US needs to be dealt with.

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@LFRAgain,

Having questions about the situations doesn't show cynicism. Nor does having some reservations about the case based on experience in said country about an issue that is common here that many folks are also aware of. Don't forget I have given logical reasons for my questioning and at the same time let it be known that there is the possibility I am wrong.

Neither you nor Cleo have said anything about whether the statements I have made are incorrect. She is changing the topic and you are questioning my character.

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@Norinrad21

Double Standards. Some of you truly need to look at yourselves in the mirror

What are the double standards here regarding this case?

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And while I'm at it...

How, exactly, are the best intrests of the child - the son of a fallen US Marine - served by allowing him to stay in the US, as some have suggested, while explelling his mother? I'm sure having one pair of loving grandparents more than makes up for having your dad getting blown away in Iraq before you were born and never getting to meet your mother because of a legal techincality. Well, boy, can't be to careful about immigrants, can we now?

Even better are the "Japan has horrible policies on international custody cases, so it's only natural we should screw over the Marine's widow, his infant son, and his US citizen parents to get even" suggestions. Turn about is fair play, right? I'm sure that'll show'em.

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@Altria

Why did you leave this bit off the end, JT?

To be fair, it is irrelevant to the case. Whether his mother support his decision to marry this woman means nothing. She wasn't there when the courting took place. She got into the picture after the fact. This doesn't say anything about the original intentions of the wife or citizenship situation. She can speak very little English and the mother can't speak any Japanese. How much can she truly know about her? These are the words of a emotionally drained parent after the loss of her son and potential loss of the only meaningful thing she has left of him....his child.

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@Altria:

Read the Stars and Stripes story and your questions will be answered. Hotaru visited the parents in Tenn. with Michael over Christmas. When Hotaru said that she wanted to raise her son in Tenn. the grandparents were elated because that's what they wanted but wanted it to be her decision.

The facts m'am, just the facts.

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@Triumvere and hannari,

Who said she is getting screwed over? It isn't a now or never one time situation only. She gets benefits regardless. Her son is a citizen regardless. They can return to the US regardless. What does it matter if she goes back to Japan for a while and allow the child to learn about the mother's family and culture. Where the child was actually born. The other grandparents can come visit and she can go there. She can also go there later and apply for citizenship. She go to school there and eventually get citizenship. All paid for by family or the government. The child is also set for benefits for a long time.

The courtship is over and unfortunately the father is no longer in the picture. We can only speculate.

Once again it appears this woman seems to be jumping the gun like she did with marriage, pregnancy and now this.

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In a proxy wedding, is it possible to conssumate the marriage by proxy. If so, I may be able to sort everything out.

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In a proxy wedding, is it possible to conssumate the marriage by proxy.

That's a good point. If you can get married by phone, surely you should be able to consummate it by phone sex or sexting.

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The father is NOT "no longer in the picture". He may be dead, but he remains in the picture as a 'dead father and wife'.

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er, sorry, husband

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@Hannari,

He is no longer in the picture because he can't be a direct influence in the child's life. Indirectly yes, directly no. Not in the picture.

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@Hannari

He may be dead, but he remains in the picture as a 'dead father and wife'.

That doesn't sound right. I would cringe if someone made that statement about one of my loved ones.

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biglittleman: yes, well saying someone who is very much dear to me is "out of the picture" when I'm trying desperately to make sure he remains in it, especially for my son, is also something I wouldn't feel comfortable with.

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@Hannari

Fair enough, but like in my statement I said it was an unfortunate reality.

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biglittleman,

I do. If her husband hadn't fallen in the service of his country, she wouldn't have to go through any of this. She would have simply been given a spousal visa and that would have been that. Instead she now has to go through this ordeal at what is probably the most traumatic point in her life: the loss of her husband right after the birth of their child. It serves no ones intrests - not the wife, the son, or the partents - to force them to be apart. The mother has decided that the best thing for her child is for it to be raised in the US with her late husband's family, and the child's grandpartents agree - who are you to second guess them? While I have no doubt that this will eventually be sorted out satisfactorally, none of the people involved should be made to suffer more than they already have. Just what intrest do you believe is being served by preventing the unification of the family?

In your previous post you mentioned the "original intetions of the wife" as being relevant to the case... but unless you believe the mairrage to be fraudulant, then her intentions are actually irrelevant. Barring a fake marraige with no intention to stay together beyond what was necessary to gain citizenship, whether or not Hotaru Ferschke married Michael Ferschke primarily gain said citizenship is immetarial. The evidence provided seems to indicate that the marriage was genuine, and if it was genuine then it is the humane and morally correct thing to recognize it as such.

Once again it appears this woman seems to be jumping the gun like she did with marriage, pregnancy and now this.

How did she "jump the gun" exactly? The met, they fell in love, got pregnant, and then married at the last possible opportunity... right before he was killed. They nearly missed their chance. In fact, given what has happened, you might say they were too late - the polar opposite of "jumping the gun". Conversely, if you think she was just doing this for a greencard then she still almost missed the window. Unless, you are implying that she should have waited and got pregnant by some other marie - one who would stick around long enough for a propper wedding... If so, I must say that is breath-takingly cynical of you.

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@Altria,

That's a good point. If you can get married by phone, surely you should be able to consummate it by phone sex or sexting.

I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't think that's what he meant...

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Oh, yeah, and courtesy of the Stars and Stripes:

While in Iraq, Michael Ferschke kept a running letter in diary form for his bride. The last page was written only a few hours before he went out on his last mission. The last sentence was: "I love you." Shame on you.

Thanks for that, Triumvere. "Quoted for truth," as they say.

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who cares why she doesn't want to live in Japan? That's NONE of our business. Fact is, she has a son, who we all know might have an easier time growing up in America like a normal American verses being a half without a father. Also, it's important to think of the grandparents. They lost their son, but have been blessed with a grandson, and it would be cruel to tear them apart.

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biglittleman: I'm sorry, I don't understand... so you are saying that because he is no longer "directly in the picture", we should all stay quiet and forget about supporting people who are trying to keep his memory alive? and if anything, think up fictional details that make the current 'unfortunate situation' more acceptable?

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@Triumvere,

What do you mean? Once again this is not some extreme case. She won't be stripped of her child and then left out in the cold to fend for herself on the rough streets of Okinawa. No one is separating the mother from her child. She just doesn't want to leave the US. If she doesn't get the visa now then her and her child will go back to Japan. Live with her family and be visited by his family and she and her child will go and visit them. Later she can apply again for citizenship.

Oh, yeah, and courtesy of the Stars and Stripes:

While in Iraq, Michael Ferschke kept a running letter in diary form for his bride. The last page was written only a few hours before he went out on his last mission. The last sentence was: "I love you." Shame on you.

Once again that has no relevance on her legal case nor whether or not we know her initial intentions when she started dating this man. It means he cared for her.

How did she "jump the gun" exactly? The met, they fell in love, got pregnant, and then married at the last possible opportunity... right before he was killed.

You just said it for me. Not to mention they did all this after knowing each other a little over a year. Neither one of them could speak each others language. Now she wants to live in foreign country when she is obviously not really prepared to do it yet. Financially, educationally, linguistically...etc. America isn't going anywhere, neither is the child's grandparents or citizenship.

She should listen to her mother in this situation not his parents.

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@moonbeams

Also, it's important to think of the grandparents.

What about the women's family. Don't they have just as much right to be in the child's life as the father?

Fact is, she has a son, who we all know might have an easier time growing up in America like a normal American verses being a half without a father.

The child will still be half without a father.

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@Hannari

I'm sorry, I don't understand... so you are saying that because he is >no longer "directly in the picture", we should all stay quiet and forget about supporting people who are trying to keep his memory alive? and if anything, think up fictional details that make the current 'unfortunate situation' more acceptable?

You don't understand because no one in this entire thread has said what you just said.

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biglittleman: oh, sorry... must be getting senile... I'll be on my way then.

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Neither you nor Cleo have said anything about whether the statements I have made are incorrect

Statements? Unfounded accusations, more like. There is nothing in the article - nothing at all - to back up your claim that the girl is a military groupie.

What Japanese news am I missing exactly?

this -http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080605a1.html

I was not talking about 'the typical J/F-case', I was talking about the reaction of the usual suspects on JT who, when it's news about Japan, slag off the Japanese authorities/laws/populace, yet when basically the same thing happens but the other way around, it's still the Japanese who get slagged off.

OK, after explaining it, I get it now. It isn't double standards at all. The single standard is 'take any and every opportunity to slag off Japan regardless of the details'.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. :-)

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Biglittleman,

No, BLM, that quote has everything to do with the case. It is evidence (pretty convincing - though not conclusive) that the marraige was real.

This:

her initial intentions when she started dating this man

is what is not relevant. Reasons for dating, reasons for marraige. The question is whether or not the marriage was real. If he had met her and said, "I want to sleep with you" and she said "Great, I need a greencard. Lets get married." and they did, it would not alter the status of the marraige. (It might be used as circumstancial evidence to argue that the marraige was a fraud - but it doesn't invalidate the marraige in and of itself.) They could have married for money. They could have married because she got knocked up accidentally. They could have married for all sort of reasons that were not "love", and it wouldn't matter; the question is were they married and did they intend to stay that way. (Ironically, you causually dismiss evidence that it was for love as somehow being not relvant when evidence of such is commonly used to prove that international marraiges are real to immigration officials.)

This:

You just said it for me. Not to mention they did all this after knowing each other a little over a year. Neither one of them could speak each others language. Now she wants to live in foreign country when she is obviously not really prepared to do it yet. Financially, educationally, linguistically...etc. America isn't going anywhere, neither is the child's grandparents or citizenship.

is simply not your call to make. It's not your life and its not your child. These people are owed the rights which are due to them, which they would have had without question if the couple had managed to meet just once prior to Sgt. Ferschke's untimely death.

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@Triumvere

First, of all if he wouldn't have went off to fight and later die they would still be living in Okinawa married. She wouldn't have been in hurry to get citizenship so soon because he would be still stationed there.

Second, my statement about her intentions at the beginning didn't refer to a fraudulant marriage. A fraudalent marriage involves neither participants caring for one another and annulled the marriage immediately after obtaining citizenship. No one on this thread has said that. We have discussed the fact that there was a possibility she could have been looking to land a foreigner to marry so she could get out of Okinawa. You quotes from Stars and Stripes only shows he loved her. It proves it was not a fraudulant marriage. You are correct but since no one said it was fraudulant then it is irrelevant.

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biglittleman:

First, of all if he wouldn't have went off to fight and later die they >would still be living in Okinawa married. She wouldn't have been in hurry >to get citizenship so soon because he would be still stationed there.

So?? Things change. His physical absence is the very reason why she wants to go, and take her son with her. It is so that he can grow up in an environment with his father in it and influencing his life (indirectly, but as strongly as possible given the situation).

The rest, as Triumvere said.

(ok, now I'll be on my way)

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biglittleman,

I don't get it. If there is no one arguing that the marriage was fradulent what basis do people have for denying her all the rights due to the spouse of a US citizen?

First, of all if he wouldn't have went off to fight and later die they would still be living in Okinawa married. She wouldn't have been in hurry to get citizenship so soon because he would be still stationed there.

And if he had never joined the Corps he would have never ended up on a military base in Okinawa, and they would never have met in the first place... where were you hoping to go with this? He was a United States Marine. He was deployed. He shipped out. That's his job, and he gave his life in the course of doing his duty to his country. Do we not, as a nation, have a moral obligation to do all we can to support his family?

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@Cleo

OK, after explaining it, I get it now. It isn't double standards at all.

Good! I'm glad you understand. I notice your typical behavior when you don't have any evidence is you become sarcastic and get off the thread.

It isn't a double standard because I believe she should have the opportunity become a citizen if she likes but there shouldn't be a rush for her to run to America. It is also not a double standard because I believe that some Japanese women like Filipino women marry simply to be taken care of. And it has been proven to be true. Ask your Japanese female friends. I also don't think it isn't a double standard because the Japanese government treats spouses of Japanese nationals more unfairly compared to foreign spouses of US citizens.

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some Japanese women like Filipino women marry simply to be taken care of.

Happens the world over. Still no reason for you to call this girl, who you've never met and know nothing about, a 'military groupie hoping to get drafted by some soldier', 'trying to trap him or just anybody'. You have absolutely no evidence for that, and it's insulting to him as well as to her.

The evidence is that they were legally married under Japanese law and the US is phaphing about trying to claim that a couple who have a baby together never consummated their marriage.

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@Triumvere and Hannari

My position has never changed. My entrance in this thread was about what was her initial intentions about getting married and pregnant so quickly and wanting to move to the US. Because from your own quotes from articles and the time frame of this relationship she seemed to have already had made decisions about her plans to move overseas. Which had nothing to do with her wanting be in an environment with her husband's influence in it. Her husband would be an influence as long as he is remembered no matter where they are. Unless she knew very little about him. Then that goes back to my discussion about her intentions and jumping the gun. Which is why I stated the government should take its time and review the case and make a decision based on the law. If it is good for the President's own family members then it is good for the rest of the citizens. The child is a citizen and she can become one too, America is not going anywhere. She hasn't loss anything. She gets his benefits now. She can be citizen later there is no rush. Being one now or later will not change anything at this moment. She will still have her child, the child will still have grandparents and everyone will still their have memories of the soldier.

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biglittleman,

I guess the best way to put it is this: she is either due the rights regularly granted to the spouses of US citzens, or she isn't. This hinges on whether or not you believe the marraige to be a legitimate one or a fraud. If we believe the marriage to be legitimate - as per the spirit of the law - then it is incumbant upon us to provide those rights which are owed. It matters not whether or not we believe the rights in question to be of any practical value or benefit to the holder; they are her rights and she must be free to excersize them as she sees fit. This is a moral imperitive.

I do not accept the arguement that Justice should be denied based on a technicality. The law is an imperfect instrument - especially law written in a different era from the one in which we now reside. This is why discretion and oversight are fundamental parts of the legal system. The decision to deny Hotaru Ferschke's petition was probably correct from a techical standpoint, but it in no way serves the intrest of Justice or, as I see it, the United States of America. If it is not within the power of Citizenship and Immigration Services to grant special dispensation to the Ferschkes (something which may indeed be possible within the bounds of the law) then it is up to the Legislature to correct this miscarriage of Justice. It would not be the first time, nor will it be the last that such action is necessary. I am confident that the appropriate parties will do the right thing, however I fervently hope that this issue is resolved with with all due haste. No one should be denied their rights, even temporarily.

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I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't think that's what he meant...

You know me all to well, Triumvere.

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The grandparents need to get their congresscritter involved. That's what it takes to get this type of thing through.

The marriage is as legit as the two of them wanted it to be. The registered in Japan and they had a baby together. What more do you want. Only the most pencil necked bureaucrat would challenge this.

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If the army recognizes the marriage then INS should as well. I hope someone will straighten this out. INS is pretty much an inflexible evil institution. Having gone through both sides with my wife in the States first and me in Japan when we came back I can testify there is no worse paper pusher than an INS employee.

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This is a sad case of circumstances running afoul of the bureaucracy. I don't see how anyone can find fault with the wife unless they are claiming that she intended to have him killed in the war.

I married a foreign bride (Russian, not Japanese) and the hoops I had to jump through were numerous and fraught with paperwork traps. This is not something these two did on a whim.

This couple was simply unlucky. They were no different than any other young couple prior to a deployment to a warzone... history notes how countless other couples stived to have a child before the husband was shipped off to war. Many of those husbands never saw their child before they died. I feel for the mother and I hope their personal bill makes it through Congress so Immigration can grant a waiver.

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" proxy weddings was designed to curb marriage fraud " I haven't ready the story but this should be decided in the Supreme Court. The wife needs to take this to an Higher Court of Law. If they can prove the marriage is not a Fraud. They should grant the deceased Marines' wife citizenship. Because it's his baby.

But on the flip side to this. People do marry for fraudulant purposes for recieving a Green Card. This is just another example of marrying for the wrong reasons. If he knew he was going away to Iraq. I would not get seriously involved with somebody. It's a long distance relationship. And some will lead to divorce or a Dear John Letter. Some people marry because the feel lonely and they want to marry quickly to not be alone. When I was a serviceman long time ago I seen this type of behavior. My Military supervisors lectured me and my comrades about situations like this. Suzy Rotten------ and other wild stories.

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She should take this striaght to the supreme court, if she can prove that the marriage is " real " she will win her day in court. Challenge the Law always.

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Photo here

http://imgur.com/CZ1Ab.jpg

This story is getting huge coverage.

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Biglittleman,

Are you really stating in all seriousness that my suggestion that you are allowing cynicism to color your position somehow impugns your character?

Then you, sir, by suggesting that I am allowing sympathy to “cloud” my rationale, are a rotten scoundrel. :-D

On the other hand, methinks thou suffer from overly thin skin.

At any rate, no insult was intended. I merely pointed out what is more than obvious to most posters here, namely your rush to judge this woman based on little more than stereotypes.

I must applaud, however, the great lengths you’ve gone to distance yourself from your earlier inflammatory statements and repackage your argument as one of reasoned logic. Unfortunately for those efforts, this thread possesses an infallible memory of your statements, even if you don’t. Allow me to correct the lapse:

biglittleman at 12:55 PM JST - 18th September

“It seems more likely the soldier was just naive guy with little experience and fell for the first girl who gave him some. And he met some girl who may have been a military groupie hoping to get drafted by some soldier. Hoping to live the fantasy life of traveling the world and having haafu children. She can barely speak the language and he could barely speak Japanese. That right there is the wrong way to start a choice that will affect the rest of your life. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Also where is the girls parents in this? She does seem quite desperate to run to America. Just like them getting married and her getting pregnant. My gut tells me she may have been trying to trap him or just anybody.”

Naïve guy who fell for the first girl who gave him some? Classy.

Military groupie hoping to get “drafted” by some soldier? Cute.

Live a fantasy life of traveling the world with a haafu child? No. No judgmental disdain here. No sirree.

Desperate to “run” to America? Now, by your account, she’s not only "desperate," but also seeking to escape from some as-yet unknown situation?!

And your “gut” seems to have something to share. It tells you she may have been trying to trap someone -- anyone -- unfortunate enough to come along? Tell me, what does your “gut” have to say about irrational assumptions?

As you maintain, you initial position hasn’t changed, but that doesn’t necessarily make it right, despite the somewhat noisome tone in your recent posts that says, “Biglittleman knows best.” Your logic is couched firmly in supposition and assumption, relying almost exclusively on stereotypes and hearsay for support. You cite some vague “personal experience living in Japan” as if it bore all the weight necessary to pigeonhole any and all relationships between a girl from Okinawa and a US serviceman based there, too.

Well, unless your experiences includes some 500 or more personally witnessed episodes of fraudulent marriages conducted under precisely the circumstances you cite in order to openly question the character of this woman you know nothing of, thus demonstrating a statistical probability that your experiences speak to the norm, then your “personal experience living in Japan” has about as much relevance here as a personal recollection of a satisfying bowel movement during a particularly full moon.

In the meantime, a far greater body of evidence actually exists to suggest that this couple met, married, and ultimately had a child with purer intentions than you would give them credit for. If your refusal to acknowledge even this isn’t cynicism speaking, then I don’t know what cynicism is.

You’re correct in that you do leave plenty of wiggle room in the event that your accusations of impure intentions are wrong, while you slowly try to shape your position into one of pure good-natured intentions, i.e., “She and the child should simply go through the other more lengthy process,” all the while ignoring the fact that your original premise for insisting this woman take the far lengthier route to US citizenship in the first place is based on your preconception that she is a fraud. I can assure you, your argument -- or more specifically, your lengthy attempts to recast your initial disparagement of the woman in this story in a seemingly more balanced light -- certainly isn't well-reasoned “logic” at work. It's emotionally tinted recollection and impression -- and cynicism -- at work, and little else.

If you insist on feeling as if your character has been called into question, then fine; I’m calling into question your lack of intellectual integrity to admit that your heart is displayed as prominently on your sleeve in this matter as it is for any of us.

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There are other cases:

US 60 minutes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5088149n&tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea.2

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Damn, that Stripes link made me cry!

Anyone who's being a jerk in this thread is kindly invited to take a flying leap through the link, posted here again for easy access.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=64437&archive=true

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http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5088149n&tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea.2

Wow. Just wow. From this video it looks like it wouldn't have mattered if the consumated the marriage; under Bush era leadership the Immigration just deported non-citizen widows regardless situation. Glad to here Obama and Nepolitano are working on fixing this debacle.

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biglittleman,

Your comparison of this woman with the Filipino women is not very appropriate here. Every woman has an 'ulterior motive' in finding a partner. Future security - and financial security in particular I would think. But some women risk too much to secure that and will go to any extend to achieve that. The marriage rackets of the the women from the South East Asian countries, Filipinas in particular are not a secret. There are organised gangs involved and sadly, the pattern is the Japanese man is killed or in a worst situation than before the said marriage. In a few cases, the Filipina is killed too. Or the Japanese man is made a Santa Claus for the entire family and relatives of the woman.

Do you see the case of the Marine's widow in the same light? I have not heard about Japanese women married to foreigners involved in plots and scheme to kill their husbands. While we really cannot say what really went on with this marine and his wife, for the sake of the child atleast, some consideration has to be given to the woman. from the links provided I see that she was not trying to "runaway" from Okinawa.

Don't we all run away from something?

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More evidence that in every country, the people in charge of immigration laws and administration are the most heartless, mindless and notoriously corrupt creeps. While thousands of people are trafficked and traded under their noses every day, these lice would rather waste time and money dragging this poor woman and her child through the courts.

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How about letting her baby come to America, and then the mother must stay in Japan. Thats how the Japanese immigration does foreigners with babies born in Japan. The Babies a Japanese national, and the father is nothing but a foreigner with no parental rights.

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LFRagain,

First of all, my position has never changed. In your attempt to use my own words against me. You have shown that in my statements that I had stated "may have been" which never means 100% definitely. Secondly, you failed to show and ignored in my earlier postings.

I also wrote:

Whatever her story is the government should not rush into this. It should take its time and review the facts. It maybe a different time but this rule in particular is still applicable.

You seem to be selectively taking my words out context and then ignoring other parts to prove your point. That is why sympathy is clouding your rational judgement. Because you are willing to got such lengths.

And that sir makes you a scoundrel!

@womanforwomen

First, it was Cleo who brought up the analogy about Filipino women. And yes it is relevant by your own words nonetheless.

you wrote:

Every woman has an 'ulterior motive' in finding a partner. Future security - and financial security in particular I would think. But some women risk too much to secure that and will go to any extend to achieve that.

Which was my point from the beginning! She had an ulterior motive. Thank you for agreeing with me. Just because some groups go to the extreme as pointed out about getting marriage doesn't mean we totally rule out the point we don't know for sure what her original attentions were in the relationship. So we are back at where we started from with this conversation.

So you are right I don't see the Japanese woman marrying her husband to hopefully kill him in the future like your Filipino example.

I do see the possibility of an ulterior motive in both which you have admitted as woman you all possess. Thus the rule is still applicable today as when it was first conceptualized.

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How about letting her baby come to America, and then the mother must stay in Japan. Thats how the Japanese immigration does foreigners with babies born in Japan. The Babies a Japanese national, and the father is nothing but a foreigner with no parental rights.

Because we are better than that.

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@Triumvere,

Why are arguing about extreme situations? None on the this thread other than AK619. Has suggested separating mother from child and sending her away.

We have suggested is that she follow the law. Are you suggesting she should be beyond the law? Which is let immigration review her case and make a decision. Not based on anything other than the circumstances of this case and law. If they don't give her citizenship now then go home with her child and do all things I laid out in my previous posts to get citizenship later. Nothing would change for her, the child or family either way.

The father is still gone, the child is a citizen and the mother will be eventually.

The bases of the relationship between the two has been simply a sub-conversation.

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INS no longer exists (legacy agency) know known as USCIS. Any case I hope that a private bill introduced by one of the representatives of the home state will most likely pass.

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@BLM,

I am suggesting that the law as written is unjust, and should be changed for the benefit of all. I am suggesting that decision made by the USCIS was not a moral one, however technically correct it may be. I find your definitions of "relevant circumstances" to be narrow and somewhat arbitrary. Furthermore, I find that your statement that "Nothing would change for her, the child or family either way." to be extremely subjective. The question is what, if any, rights are due to her; it is not your place to place a value on the rights of others.

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@Triumvere

I am suggesting that decision made by the USCIS was not a moral one, however technically correct it may be. I find your definitions of "relevant circumstances" to be narrow and somewhat arbitrary. Furthermore, I find that your statement that "Nothing would change for her, the child or family either way." to be extremely subjective. The >question is what, if any, rights are due to her; it is not your place to place a value on the rights of others.

I want you to reread your post. Because you obviously don't know what you are saying.

The question is what, if any, rights are due to her;

Firstly, you agree with me but I am wrong. Doesn't that make you wrong too? LOL!!!

Reread what I said:

We have suggested is that she follow the law. Are you suggesting she should be beyond the law? Which is let immigration review her case and make a decision. Not based on anything other than the circumstances of this case and law.

Oh, how we quickly forget.

Secondly, you say:

it is not your place to place a value on the rights of others.

You do realize how hypocritical you sound. You tell me it is not my place to place value on the rights of others.

Then you say:

I am suggesting that decision made by the USCIS was not a moral one, however technically correct it may be.

So you believe it your place to put value on the rights of others? Instead following the rules that were put in place. LOL!!!

Once again:

I am suggesting that decision made by the USCIS was not a moral one

So you and the others went through all this character assassination (LFRAgain, womanforwomen and Triumvere) and in the end you agree me.

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As for the son, yes he should be an automatic for US citizenship based on the father being American. Hotaru san will just have to wait until the son turns 18 and he can sponsor her residency.

How crazy does that sound?

For those criticizing the marriage by proxy thing he found out he was going to be a dad whilst deployed in a danger zone. So he did what he could to legitimise the relationship just in case. Unfortunately the worst did happen and he was killed.

Also there is no mention of support from her family only his. This also is not uncommon in international marriages in Japan so maybe she wants to go where she has support and not being treated as an outcast - one possible reason why she wants to go to the US. Not saying that is the case, but something to consider rather than throwing out wild accusations...

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BLM.

I am starting to suspect you are being disingenuous in your argument. Either that or you don't understand what I am saying to you. How, exactly have I engaged in "character assassination"? If you feel I have been uncivil or unfair in regards to my exchanges with you I encourage you to specify (with quotes) how.

While I have many issues with your last post, I'd like to focus on the "it is not your place to place a value on the rights of others" part. I feel you are not understanding what I am trying to convey to you, so let me restate it as clearly as possible: You have repeatedly claimed that the woman (and her child) have effectively lost nothing by not being granted the rights normally afforded to the spouses of US citizens. To support this position you have given the following arguments: 1) You believe that she will be able to receive various benefits from the USMC and US gov't. 2) You are certain she will be able to get citizenship after an undisclosed period of time, just not immediately. 3) You believe that it would be in her best interest, and that of the child, for her to raise the boy in Japan for a portion of his life.

Now, setting aside that it is not certain to me that she will eventually receive citizenship, my point is this:

What you are saying is that we should not be concerned about whether her rights are being violated, because she will eventually receive a benefit which is, in your estimation, equal to or better than that which she would derive from being to exercise those rights immediately. The problem is, this is a value judgment (on the value of said rights) that we (both you, I, and everyone else) do not have the right to make. We cannot deny "rights" to others based on our own perceived values of said rights. If I have the right to do X, then I must be free to do X if I so choose. You deny me that right based on the fact you think that I should do Y, or that Y is just as good or better than X. This is what I mean by "value judgment". If she has the right, then she must be free to exercise that right. So the only question becomes whether or not the right is due to her.

This question is both a legal and a moral one. You appear to be stating a preference for following the letter of the law rather strictly, and for allowing the machinery of the Immigration department to resolve the issue. I am trying to tell you that I find the letter of the law in opposition to the spirit of the law in its application here, and think that the law should be changed accordingly. I feel this is a moral responsibility. I would welcome any attempt by yourself to restate you position regarding the case for the purposes of clarity. I feel as if we may have been speaking cross purposes here.

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