national

Reports of measles rising in Okinawa; damage to tourism feared

49 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© KYODO

©2018 GPlusMedia Inc.

49 Comments
Login to comment

Take your kids down to Okinawa, so they can get Measles, recover in a few days, gain real life time immunity and then forgo the chemical cocktail vaccine.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Damage to tourism feared, damage to humans okay

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Take your kids down to Okinawa, so they can get Measles, recover in a few days, gain real life time immunity and then forgo the chemical cocktail vaccine.

We don't live in the 18th century.

Measles is a potentially fatal disease. In the normal course of the illness, it often takes a lot more than a few days to recover. If complications set in, they can be severe and life-altering. Complications include pneumonia, encephalitis, blindness, and deafness. These are not risks a responsible adult would want to expose their children to, and, if the argument's not too subtle for you, not risks a responsible adult would want other children to be exposed to through contact with their own infected child.

It's pure ignorance to imagine that there's a range of childhood diseases that make children stronger when it's already been well established beyond any doubt that they can kill or cause permanent damage.

The illogical part of your advice is that it purports to be about risk avoidance, positioning the vaccine as the risk, and intentionally contracting the disease in order to achieve immunity (actually, getting children to contract it) as the avoidance. In reality, intentionally contracting measles is taking a large risk, with a death rate that can be counted, a higher complication rate, and a higher rate of undesirable effects.

Through the extremely vaccine available, this disease can be eradicated, country by country. It's a shame that there are people who are unwilling to understand that, and who think that actually spreading the disease is a better idea.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Extremely effective *vaccine. 95% in children over 12 months old.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Wipeout: It is extremely dangerous to those in the womb.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

theres always gonna be something like this happening when you have all these mostly Chinese tourists flooding the island.

but we all know that when it comes down to it, it’s alll about money, no concern for the health and safety of the locals when tourists are buying everything off the shelves!!

before it was sars now it’s measles, what’s going to be the next thing? :-/

0 ( +5 / -5 )

If the measles vaccine is so effective, then what's the worry about people who choose to not have it? The only risk would be to themselves, right? It sounds like a personal choice rather than a mandatory one.

Either way, people should at least read the ingredient list of any vaccine before blindly having them.

Here is the official CDC list of most common ingredients added to vaccines.

suspending fluid (e.g. sterile water, saline, or fluids containing protein);

preservatives and stabilizers to help the vaccine remain unchanged (e.g. albumin, phenols, and glycine); and

adjuvants or enhancers to help the vaccine to be more effective.

Common substances found in vaccines include:

 Aluminum gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine.

 Antibiotics which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin.

 Egg protein is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines.

 Formaldehyde is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged.

 Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity.

 Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Some vaccines have been more harmful than diseases lately:-/

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

However, the main benefit of childhood vaccines being that they take the edge of the symptoms. No vaccine equals full strength symptoms which can lead to, in albeit unusual circumstances, death. You can still contract measles post vaccine but recover much faster.

I agree with Stuart about awareness of ingredients in vaccines but the food chain is now so contaminated it's difficult to know what we consume now. The vaccines ingredients can't be any worse than what we consume in our food.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

If the measles vaccine is so effective, then what's the worry about people who choose to not have it? The only risk would be to themselves, right?

Well Stuart, that on the face of it is a great argument. But only on the face of it, and it's actually been dealt with and found to lack merit long ago.

Here are some of the reasons.

1) There is a necessary level of vaccine uptake for removing a disease from the population. Above a certain (measurable) level, you have herd immunity. Below that level, herd immunity collapses, and the disease circulates again. We don't want that.

2) A small minority of people do not develop immunity after vaccination; others cannot have the vaccination for medical reasons: they are at risk of being infected with measles by those people who "choose not to have it" and who as a result of that choice contract measles. Measles is a highly contagious disease, so people who took the risk on themselves and caught it also become a risk to others.

3) Most people are not in fact "choosing not to have it", but choosing to withhold it from their children. The risk then is not their own, but a risk that they are placing on their children.

If we return to your original argument, I agree with it partially where certain diseases are concerned. A prime example would be cancer. As it's non-contagious, the risk, a huge one, of refusing recommended treatment for a curable cancer in a curable stage is entirely that of the person with the cancer. As long as that person is a mentally competent adult, they may choose to suffer the consequences of forgoing surgery, chemotherapy, or radiotherapy. The consequences are usually very high, including the emotional (and sometimes financial) burden visited on those close to them, not to mention the alternative medicine blame game (it usually involves claims that the person didn't follow the diet/treatments carefully enough; in other words, it's their own fault) but no one else dies from their lack of judgement. While I'm no libertarian, I support the right of adults to make that choice; however I would wish to see ruthless enforcement applied to anyone not medically qualified who attempts to mislead or to profit from the predicament of people with cancer and other diseases. That would involve far stricter regulation than we have today, but it needs to be applied to supplements and to "alternative" treatments, which in reality, are nothing of the kind. Treating a tumour with acupuncture or homeopathy or Gerson protocol or Ayurvedic flimflam is not treating it all.

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

Thimerosal has been removed from children's vaccines, as a response not to scientific assessment of risk, but to the controversy generated about its use in vaccines. So one of the few things we have to thank vaccine deniers for, and believe me, there isn't much, is that we have been able to observe the effect of thimerosal-free vaccination on autism rates in young children. It hasn't dropped. As would be expected, autism zealots merely added new targets, just as they did when it could be demonstrated that not administering the MMR vaccine in Japan has done nothing to decrease autism rates.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Biological warfare by a certain unfriendly neighbor well known for defecating and urinating in public and other unhygienic habits?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It must be five or more years ago now, but at the time there was a big measles outbreak in Japan. I had the vaccine then as doctors were saying the risks to adults of contracting measles were greater than to children.

People who are anti-vaccination are invariably talking rubbish: they are not doctors and have no medical education or training. They copy and paste stuff they find on the internet that some other idiot (also with no knowledge of the subject) has written. If you want to comment on the safety of vaccines I want to see your data collected from controlled trials and I want you to explain the trial methodology. You can cite papers published in reputable, peer-reviewed journals. That's the only way you will be taken seriously.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

People who are anti-vaccination are invariably talking rubbish: they are not doctors and have no medical education or training. They copy and paste stuff they find on the internet that some other idiot (also with no knowledge of the subject) has written. 

There are many published science and medical studies on the side effects of all vaccines including those commonly given to children. While the majority do not have a reaction some do both adult and children. They can range from mild to very serious.

MMRV vaccine side-effects, the most serious but very low in numbers

Deafness

Long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness

Brain damage

Rubella

My children received their MMRV vaccines but that must be decided by the parents or adult.

As for holding an opinion about anything on JT that's what they all are. JT is not an university or medical teaching hospital.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I always check ingredients because I’m a vegetarian.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I always check ingredients because I’m a vegetarian.

Does that include excluding any vaccines or medicine tested on animals?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Yep, vaccines are safe, that’s why so many people died after getting flu vaccines that were supposed to protect them from the flu! Oh wait I guess that’s FAKE NEWS!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Vaccinate your kids.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Take your kids down to Okinawa, so they can get Measles,

then travel back, infecting hundreds en route. They can pass it on to as-yet unvaccinated babies, the elderly, and people with low immunity already suffering a serious illness.

Idiot.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

As for holding an opinion about anything on JT that's what they all are.

Er, yes, there is general agreement that opinions are opinions, Zichi.

At the same time, not everything stated by JT commenters is merely a matter of opinion, not all opinions have equal weight, and no established fact can be overturned by an opinion that simply asserts the opposite, no matter how many people hold that opinion.

Which is why Scrote's comment about people who are anti-vaccination is reasonable (and there are many people, including a couple in this thread, who are just that: anti-vaccination).

3 ( +4 / -1 )

If it is in Okinawa it is probably everywhere. Don’t cancel your trip to a wonderful place.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wonder if they will require tourists to get their vaccines before coming to Okinawa so that we don’t have any outbreaks?!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Take your kids down to Okinawa, so they can get Measles,

then travel back, infecting hundreds en route. They can pass it on to as-yet unvaccinated babies, the elderly, and people with low immunity already suffering a serious illness.

Idiot.

Yep.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

One of the real problems is the take up rate of the MR vaccine in Okinawa, notably Naha. Well below 95%, actually around 70%. That’s the spread predetermined right there. There’s also a feeling that the Taiwanese patient zero was more likely a mainlander, Taiwan has one of the world’s highest take up rates of the vaccine.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

While plenty of people are Anti-Vaccine for measles, whooping cough etc,would they also be against vaccines for Polio, Yellow Fever,Smallpox, and other life threatening diseases. I'm old enough to remember the Polio epidemics of the 1940s ---you don't see such epidemics nowadays because of the vaccines that are available. Give me the vaccines any day!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Wipeout

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I'm familiar with herd immunity theory, though I cant find any studies that show this is the problem, related to measles or the situation in Okinawa.

Ok, so you're concerned with the 5% who don't get immunity after receiving vaccination or those who can't be vaccinated because of other health issues. You make a good point and I can't argue against it.

As for Thimerisal being removed from all children's vaccines, it's not true. Yes it has been removed from many but not all.

From CDC source

The article starts by saying, "Why is Thimerisal still being used in some children's flu vaccines?"

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Yes, I'm familiar with herd immunity theory, though I cant find any studies that show this is the problem, related to measles or the situation in Okinawa.

But it is the problem, and it is related to measles.

Unvaccinated people are at risk of contracting measles when exposed to the virus. The more people there are who go unvaccinated, the more likely it is that at some point in their life, they will be exposed to the virus, either domestically or during travel to other countries. If unvaccinated people tend to cluster in certain communities, and for various reasons they certainly can do, the virus can pass quickly through such communities. This isn't just an idea, it's been observed, in a number of countries (examples: Australia, UK, Italy, US. People who really want to see measles in action can try parts of India). The United States has in the past recorded no indigenous cases of measles in a given year. That was thanks to very high vaccine uptake. Now that uptake is dropping, indigenous cases have returned, and so have outbreaks.

The internet has given the vaccine-illiterate a voice, and a very loud one. This means that there are many people now promoting vaccine avoidance, and an increase in the number of people who decide not to vaccinate. That is a direct assault on herd immunity.

Ok, so you're concerned with the 5% who don't get immunity after receiving vaccination or those who can't be vaccinated because of other health issues. 

No, I'm concerned about measles being transmitted unnecessarily. I'm also concerned about parents who put their children in harm's way out of an ignorant prejudice against vaccination.

As for Thimerisal being removed from all children's vaccines, it's not true. Yes it has been removed from many but not all.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

As for Thimerisal being removed from all children's vaccines, it's not true. Yes it has been removed from many but not all.

And yet no observable drop in autism rates. Odd that, considering that thimerosal opponents absolutely insisted on the link. We've been through this pattern before, with MMR being replaced by MR in Japan due to public fears stirred by Andrew Wakefield about MMR and, again, no observable drop in autism rates.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Overblown and hyped to the hilt!

Measles is a benign dse that can easily be cured by grandma's soup.

No need to take medication. In fact giving aspirin could do more da-Kine damage !

However I wish the colonizer Americans will be so fearful that they would leave Okinawa for good!

Man, that would be nice!

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Vaccinate your children. It’s free as a preventative measure. No child’s health should be in jeopardy in this age and time.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You guys spouting no vaccinations or measles is not serious realize it has killed millions right? Don't be a fool vaccinate your kids.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Wipeout, I never said anything about vaccines being the cause of autism. Though you definitely said that Thimerosal had been removed from children's vaccines, while I pointed out that it hasn't been removed from all of them.

Rather than confirming that fact, you only imply that anyone who is against the use of Thimerosal being added into vaccines, also believe vaccines cause autism.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I never said anything about vaccines being the cause of autism.

True, but autism is the main focus of people who focus on thimerosal in vaccines and dismiss the scientific evidence concerning safety. Perhaps you weren't aware of that?

Though you definitely said that Thimerosal had been removed from children's vaccines, while I pointed out that it hasn't been removed from all of them.

I did say that, though I didn't actually specify that it had been removed from all vaccines, as I have always been aware that it hasn't. It has been removed from almost all children's vaccines (since 2001), and the CDC currently states "All vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger in the U.S. are available in formulations that do not contain thimerosal."

My point being that while some people are convinced that thimerosal is dangerous and so clearly linked to autism, removing it from vaccines (whether all or not) hasn't actually decreased autism figures at all.

Rather than confirming that fact, you only imply that anyone who is against the use of Thimerosal being added into vaccines, also believe vaccines cause autism.

Perhaps you took it that way, but I'm aware that people are against it for a bunch of other reasons as well. Rarely reasons that are soundly scientific, however: in other words, they actively reject the science available on the subject that shows no evidence of harm.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Actually, you don't need the tourists, just their money. So do a Go Fund Me for Okinawa. I remember Okinawa, but of course from fifty years ago. I understand the problems of being a place of a lot of young military, not to mention that they must feel like it is a Army of Occupation that has been there forever. Not too mention that every military base ends up as a Hazardous Waste site over the years.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

We've been through this pattern before, with MMR being replaced by MR in Japan due to public fears stirred by Andrew Wakefield about MMR and, again, no observable drop in autism rates.

I'm fairly sure the dropping of MMR in Japan had nothing to do with the autism scare. From memory (not so good) I think there was concern about a high side effect rate of meningitis, thought to be linked to the mumps component of the vaccine.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

wipeoutToday  02:45 am JST

I never said anything about vaccines being the cause of autism.

True, but autism is the main focus of people who focus on thimerosal in vaccines and dismiss the scientific evidence concerning safety. Perhaps you weren't aware of that?

"It wasn't my main focus nor did I mention anything about it until you used the topic to deflect."

I did say that, though I didn't actually specify that it had been removed from all vaccines, as I have always been aware that it hasn't.

"Ah, so your statement was similar to saying that MSG has been removed from Chinese food. A generalization that's true and false."

Rather than confirming that fact, you only imply that anyone who is against the use of Thimerosal being added into vaccines, also believe vaccines cause autism.

Perhaps you took it that way, but I'm aware that people are against it for a bunch of other reasons as well. Rarely reasons that are soundly scientific, however: in other words, they actively reject the science available on the subject that shows no evidence of harm.

"It was the "scientist" who removed Thimerosal from some vaccines and you claim they only removed it because of public opinion, says a lot about their moral compass as a "scientist".

"Do you have any proof that scientist only removed Thirmerosal because of public opinion or is that just your assumption as well?"

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It wasn't my main focus nor did I mention anything about it until you used the topic to deflect

It wasn't my intention to deflect, as it happens; it's just that thimerosal has been opposed for a supposed link to autism to such an extent that it's the first thing that comes to mind when people mention it. If you go to the CDC website and see the section discussing thimerosal in vaccines, it is specifically public worries about an autism link that they address

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

as does the NHS

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/vaccine-ingredients/

I suppose we could both pretend that that isn't the major concern; and I'm also completely willing to believe it isn't your concern at all. I wonder what your concern is though: what harmful effects have you identified (or think you have identified) connected to thimerosal, what is the best source of evidence you have for such effects?

Ah, so your statement was similar to saying that MSG has been removed from Chinese food. A generalization that's true and false.

I don't think MSG has been removed from Chinese food, and it's widely used in processed food both under its name and in more disguised forms in most countries anyway, so what's the similarity or the value of the comparison? Thimerosal has been removed from vaccines with the notable exception of the influenza vaccine, where it is nonetheless available for children in a thimerosal-free formulation.

It was the "scientist" who removed Thimerosal from some vaccines and you claim they only removed it because of public opinion, says a lot about their moral compass as a "scientist"

It doesn't say anything at all. But a basic goal is to get people to take recommended vaccines, and have their children vaccinated according to the recommended schedule. Andrew Wakefield alone was able to have a disproportionate effect on that, and was able to trade on his then-status as a doctor at a reputable British hospital, and his paper in a reputable medical publication, to give momentum to unjustified concerns about MMR. Removing thimerosal addresses some of the damage caused by him (among others).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wipeout

The links you gave say absolutely nothing about the CDC scientist or vaccine manufacturers removing Thimerosal because of public opinion on the topic.

However, the manufacturer stated they removed it as a precautionary messure.

As most people, I don't really know exactly what harmful effect Thimerosal has or doesn't have on the human body. To me, it's just like eating food with lots of preservatives, since none of those preservatives are a health benefit, I assume they're put there simply for a cheap way keep their profits to a maximum rather than take a loss.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The doctor who produced a false medical article about vaccine was actually struck off the medical register because of his false research. His terrible research was terrible and it was actually removed by the BMJ. Infact i think he left the UK and ran away to the US.

Hiro S NobumasaApr. 20  06:19 pm JST

Overblown and hyped to the hilt!

Measles is a benign dse that can easily be cured by grandma's soup.

No need to take medication. In fact giving aspirin could do more da-Kine damage !

However I wish the colonizer Americans will be so fearful that they would leave Okinawa for good!

Seriously? What planet are you on? Kids die from this.Some pregnant women have had miscarriages while exposed to measles. Some children have died from this. I am so not sure whey you would say OVERBLOWN and HYPED.

You think it is overblown and hyped because you haven't met anyone who has been disabled or died from this. Roald Dahl the famous author who lost his daughter to measles expressed it perfectly.

Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old.

As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of colored pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything.

"Are you feeling all right?" I asked her.

"I feel all sleepy, " she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her.

That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunized against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness.

Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunized are putting the lives of those children at risk…

So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunized?

They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunization! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunization.

>

1 ( +2 / -1 )

As most people, I don't really know exactly what harmful effect Thimerosal has

Then I think you're wasting your time talking about it further.

It has been assessed and no evidence of harmful effects has been shown. In science, that is as far as they go for any ingredient, because it's as far as science can go.

To me, it's just like eating food with lots of preservatives

To you perhaps, but it isn't and it has no bearing on vaccine safety either.

None of those preservatives are a health benefit

Keeping food in edible condition, preventing growth of harmful bacteria or mold. Not being at risk of botulism is a distinct health benefit.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Burning BushApr. 20  07:04 am JST

Take your kids down to Okinawa, so they can get Measles, recover in a few days, gain real life time immunity and then forgo the chemical cocktail vaccine.

Any chance you can be charged with giving medical advice.

I hope your knowledge goes as far as to explain the possible side effects of catching measles.

You know. like.... Blindness, hearing defects, neurological damage (encephalitis) birth defects to babies of pregnant women, possible miscarriage. etc etc.

You will explain the WHO report on over the 100s of thousands who have died over the years.

Maybe people should stop listening to people who just have an OPINION and start listening to the doctors, nurses who actually deal with this.

You will explain to them that 35 people died from the outbreak in Europe because those people took your advice, or ignored the medical advice.

Real life immunity.... the vaccine is a real virus, thats how you get immunity. Infact its even weaker than the real virus and is safer.

I wonder if you would ask these same people to go and actually catch the REAL polio?

Probably not but there have been a few people in Japan with polio. The last being in 1995. I guess people have forgotten why our children are healthier and live sooo long now.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Any chance you can be charged with giving medical advice.

Not when he's dispensing advice advice that mindblowingly dumb. It would likely cost 100,000 yen or more to "take your kids" - who if you're sensible would be already vaccinated anyway - to Okinawa, and then the chances of them, assuming they're unvaccinated, actually catching measles during the limited timespan of a trip still aren't especially high: they'd all be much more likely not to catch it than to catch it. Vaccination is more vastly more effective, vastly cheaper, and vastly safer, and has the additional benefit of actually removing the disease from the population. Which is why we do it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

wipeoutToday  02:04 pm JST

As most people, I don't really know exactly what harmful effect Thimerosal has

Then I think you're wasting your time talking about it further.

"You brought it up, I only posted the official CDC list of most commonly used ingredients used in vaccines and you ran with it making many generalizations and assumptions.

Are you an expert on the topic, the one who used to use another name on these threads?"

It has been assessed and no evidence of harmful effects has been shown. In science, that is as far as they go for any ingredient, because it's as far as science can go.

"Yet, those so called exexpert scientist decided to remove it just for fun?"

To me, it's just like eating food with lots of preservatives

To you perhaps, but it isn't and it has no bearing on vaccine safety either.

None of those preservatives are a health benefit

Keeping food in edible condition, preventing growth of harmful bacteria or mold. Not being at risk of botulism is a distinct health benefit.

"Never had any trouble from any of those things with the food I buy, maybe you should try some more quality foods."

0( +1 / -1 )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Are you an expert on the topic, the one who used to use another name on these threads?

I'm not sure who you're referring to; possibly a poster named Chikv. No, I've only ever posted here under this name.

And I'm not an expert by any stretch, or scientifically adept, but (on any subject) I believe in the following as vital to posting worthwhile opinions: common sense; not dismissing the science on a topic without being able to offer something better; not misrepresenting data; using reliable sources for information; not pretending to know better than the people who actually are experts; distrusting charlatans and cult figures. In the world of vaccine denial, all those rules are broken routinely.

Yet, those so called exexpert scientist decided to remove it just for fun?

Yeah anyway, see rules above.

Never had any trouble from any of those things with the food I buy, maybe you should try some more quality foods.

That's a bit weird. How would you have the faintest idea what food I buy now?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Measles is a benign dse that can easily be cured by grandma's soup.

An ignortant and dangerous post. Measles can cause deafness. blindness and can kill. The last measles epidemic in the UK paediatric ICU's were full of kids with measles as their parents hadn't vaccinated them.

Anti-vaxers are spreading dangerous lies.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wipeout

I guess will just have to agree, to disagree and move on.

The conversation started by me stating that vaccinations should be a personal choice and not a mandatory one. You replied to that and I anknoleged you made a good argument.

Then you had trouble with me posting the official CDC list of most commonly used ingredients in vaccines and attack anyone who questions the safety of them.

Ive never had any vaccinations as a child, due to medical reasons. As an adult, I simply chose not to have them. I'm 53 now and Chickenpox is the only trouble I've had.

Though I've traveled around the world a half a dozen times and have surely been in contact with many infectious viruses & bacteria, I'm still fine.

Maybe I've just been lucky or my immune system is strong due to genetics, gradual exposure to infectious agents my body could deal with, diet or everything combined.

In short, I don't see the point in continuing to reply to you in a defensive manor because nothing positive will occur from it.

You have your way and I have mine. I wish you happiness and good health!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Then you had trouble with me posting the official CDC list of most commonly used ingredients in vaccines and attack anyone who questions the safety of them.

Actually I haven't attacked anyone here for questioning the safety of vaccines.

If people have genuine questions about the safety of vaccines, there is nothing to stop them getting answers to those questions. But you don't actually have anything to say about the safety of thimerosal other than some vague mumbling - which isn't really an adequate substitute for the actual scientific research that has been conducted: in the end you acknowledge that you "really don't know what harmful effect it has". By doing this, you're opting keep the question open while insinuating that it does have a harmful effect of some kind. And refusing to look at the answers that are available - your best effort there was some innuendo about the "so-called experts".

This isn't questioning in the sense of trying to find information; it's raising a question, ignoring the answer, then returning to the starting point and raising the question again in a repetitious, neverending cycle.

Ive never had any vaccinations as a child, due to medical reasons. 

Then as someone considerably more vulnerable to infection with vaccine-preventable disease that people who actually have been vaccinated, you must surely have an appreciation of the protection provided by herd immunity. You probably also realize the risks of travel to certain areas of the world where those diseases you've never caught so far are much more prevalent. Your choice to remain unvaccinated for non-medical reasons is valid up to this point, but no further: if you catch measles, or mumps or something else, and become very ill as a result (these "childhood" diseases are frequently more severe in adolescence or adulthood), that's your lookout. But you still don't actually have a "right" to infect others based on your murky understanding of the realities.

Though I've traveled around the world a half a dozen times and have surely been in contact with many infectious viruses & bacteria, I'm still fine.

Yes, it's called complacency. A knowledgable physician could set you right there.

I myself have never had malaria or dengue fever, but I'm not dimwitted enough to pretend that they aren't an issue if I reside or travel in regions where it is endemic, and that I have a risk of catching them. There are many diseases that can't be vaccinated against: you can see the results of them, and those results are not preferable to prevention.

You haven't said one single thing so far that sounds like a good reason not to vaccinate: all you've done is suggest unfounded fears, waffled a bit about issues of choice (which doesn't apply to children, and can't actually be separated from the choice to infect others), and said it's okay because you've never caught anything bad.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Wipeout

Though I tried to extend the olive branch, I see it's still only a "us or them" topic for you.

Black or white, with no exceptions, no room to ever change.

You haven't attacked anyone for questioning the safety of vaccinations? Lol, you lump all of them into the same catagory of being ignorant of science and worse.

While I believe science is very important tool for the world, many scientist and their conclusions are often proven to be wrong. Did you believe in the science that said smoking cigarettes was perfectly safe? Do you still believe in electric shock therapy simply because science showed it to be helpful? Its still being practiced today and is legal, therefore those scientist must be right, eh?

You discredit all scientific research (in regards to vaccination) unless it's only performed by CDC scientist or those with big pharma connections, the very scientist who you say will remove perfectly safe ingredients, simply for concern over public opinion.

I'll let you have the last word because I'm sure you will but this is my final reply on this article. Have at it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'll let you have the last word

Thanks.

You haven't attacked anyone for questioning the safety of vaccinations? 

Correct, if you read what I said. Merely questioning is not the problem, though even that can be done in bad faith or, at a certain point, as I mentioned previously, just becomes an endless cycle of questioning, ignoring the answers, and repeating the question, which is basic dishonesty. Then there's your own method (it's very common) of claiming to be merely questioning while slipping in digs at "so-called experts" and making insinuations about risks or dangers without showing in any way that they actually exist: that's not questioning, it's saying that experts aren't experts.

You lump all of them into the same catagory of being ignorant of science and worse.

Many, and it can easily be argued almost all, anti-vaccine people are ignorant of science and worse. Andrew Wakefield - who as a physician should have known better - was guilty both of bad science and extreme dishonesty. The antivaccine movement is well-populated with similar types, though generally, unlike Wakefield, they have no real medical background.

Many scientist and their conclusions are often proven to be wrong. Did you believe in the science that said smoking cigarettes was perfectly safe?

I am not aware - and I very much doubt that you are are either - of science that ever declared smoking cigarettes to be "perfectly safe"; and certainly there was not a scientific consensus on that. Health warnings have been on cigarette packets since 1967 in the United States; in 1954, Richard Doll's study demonstrated an unmistakable link between smoking and lung cancer; in 1950, he had already suggested in the British Medical Journal that the risk was 50 times higher among heavy smokers than nonsmokers; German studies from the 1920s proposed the link between tobacco and lung cancer, and also coined the term passive smoking. Cigarettes were not mass-produced and marketed until the 1880s, and didn't become a universal adult habit until the first or second decade of the 20th century, considerably helped along during the war years. So in fact the dangers were recognized quite early on.

Basically, I think what you offered there can be summed up as a strawman argument.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites