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S Korea to propose sex slave talks with Japan

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I take it the millitary is and always was a Japanese state run facility, therefor taking women against their will to work as sex slaves makes Japan guilty and has a duty to compensate all of the victims

6 ( +10 / -3 )

It's not just about money.

References to "wartime sex slaves" have been omitted from most authorized school textbooks under LDP rule.

Hopefully they will be back.

4 ( +7 / -2 )

noriyosan73

Let it go world. It is exactly this mentality that keeps countries apart for 1000 years. Your great, great, great grandfather did ............ to my family. Should a Czech be angry and demand retribution for what Kangis Kan's army did. Let it go South Korea, and concentrate on protecting the people from the Kim crazy in the north.

Interesting point,, l have one problem with it though. You want other countries to let these issues go and move on yet week after week and month after month we hear from the Japanese about the Southern Kurils and how they where stolen, we hear from the Japanese about the war crimes committed against them in the for of the A Bombs. Then there is the likes of Yuri who everytime there is a discussion on Okinawa brings up the US attacks and the supposed war crimes committed there, not to mention SamuraiBlue who blames the victim not the perpetrator. Yet when victims of Japan seek to tell their stories you Japanese say "Let it go and move on" you are not the first on the thread to say this but it just shows in your eyes there is one victim in this whole situation and that is Japan and you are not interested in hearing about the damages you caused your neighbors. Personally l think it would actually do you as a people some good to shut the victim mentality up for a while and listen and learn what you as a nation did to others.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Spidapig -Snip- What a shame now fabricating stories based on hearsay.

So the victims account is hearsay but the perpetrators story is fact. Ok good luck with that

3 ( +3 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue: "Beyond hearsay and statements from the victims there is not much evidence that support their claim"

I always love it when the people were born long after the fact tell the people who experienced somethat that the victims are wrong and 'have no proof' (while of course, the people claiming the victims are wrong simply MUST have proof!). As long as there are people like Samurai who deny the atrocities and actions like the sex slaves while playing up Japan being the victim in everything, nothing will be solved.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Can't see the dividing line since the resistance was the event that blew the whistle for IJA to investigate which resulted the shut down which all happened with the two month period. IJA in general was not the one orchestrating the forced sexual abuse which you seem to believe since it was IJA that forced the shut down

According to the same document from the Dutch investigation it states that Tokyo and the IJA high command in the case of Dutch East Indies did not instigate the practice of comfort stations however it was instigated at the local command level i.e the general and officers in charge of individual areas. And the station you refer to (actually the 4) where shut down after 2 months following a visit from an IJA officer from the Tokyo command and the Dutch in the camps protested to him. He then had the Officers in charge shut them down. It is also documented that shortly after these stations where reopened and operated again. Also while there was private brothels working in the area these where shutdown by the military due to the high rates of VD and the troops had to use IJA run brothels instead.

and I never mentioned the number of institutions.

Let me quote you "and the brothel" this indicates one brothel. So yes you did mention the number in your mind, if you where unsure of your facts you should have wrote brothels!

To my knowledge one was for upper ranking officers, another for lower ranking officers and the rest for enlisted men I guess. There were other brothels that were open for business as well.

This is one incident in one area of a vast war zone and if this happened on one small Indonesian island what else happened elsewhere. Remember you are defending a group that in the East Indies forcefully took 270,000 locals to work on Japanese war projects of which 80% died, who interned almost all non Indonesian civilians and they had a death rate in excess of 25%, and caused a famine by confiscating all the food which resulted in the deaths of 4 million people. And you are defending these people and saying they are not responsible.

You see that is the problem you will not take responsibility for the actions of your countrymen but say oh it was a few renegades that did it.

I suppose it was a few renegades that instigated the Eunice policy in Japan when they saw the war was lost. You know the policy to protect the pure Japanese by making thousands of Japanese women Eunices so they could work in the brothels to serve the allied troops. No it wasnt it was a national policy. Just like the people orchestrating the comfort women or the massacres wasnt a few renegades but a policy by the IJA.

I agree end of story, because you just dont or wont accept the truth. So back to your history revision.

So is IJA in general responsible?

Certainly not but some renegade military members were involved, end of story.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

well said Smithinjapan

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The only answer I can see is for the Japanese govt to include this issue in all school textbooks so the future generation can learn.

2 ( +5 / -2 )

I'm all for Japan paying compensation to the victims. But both Japan and Korea still use women and girls for sex in conditions that approach slavery while the police and politicians ignore the situation.

2 ( +5 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue

You'll need to check your source better, IJA didn't have any records since most of the brothels were privately owned. The basis I used are statements from the veterans who used those places.

Maybe you need to check your sources, given there is evidence out there from survivors of the IJA and some documentation that the IJA did infact run these premises and also approved of their use. They claim they where actually a positive because it stopped soldiers going around raping locals and therefore reduced resentment (guess they did set one up in Nanking in time though hey?).This is an extract from a book documenting some of the comfort women experiences. As you can see rather than privately owned some where militarily run. "General Okumura Yasuji, for example, had been the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Shanghai Expeditionary Army and had ordered the establishment of the first ianjo in Shanghai in 1932, of which Lieutenant-General Okabe Naozaburô had approved."

As for the Dutch women, from what I can find the IJA after learning of the incident investigated the brothel and closed it down convicting the people responsible.

Oh those IJA soldiers they where such nice fellows (when not beheading POW's, bayoneting and raping civilians), you may want to read non japanese accounts of this (in other words factual rather than the standard Japanese denial crap). There is a particularly interesting story about several dutch women in the Dutch East Indies captured by the IJA in 1942 and they were forced to work in these establishments until liberation at the end of the war.

But l doubt any of this will sink in as you seem to be well versed in the revisionist accounts of what happened so you keep believing that. Ever thought maybe thats why your countries actions will never be forgotten. Because people like you arnt able to own up to the fact your fathers and grandfathers where murderous, raping scum who embarked on a conquest of your neighbors and systematically massacred the locals. Just a thought

2 ( +2 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

It's hearsay if statements cannot be collaborated and/or if one contradicts another.

Just a small lesson for you, Hearsay as defined in the dictionary is "Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience." Now given the personal account l refer to is from the person who was the victim. Then l think you will find it isnt hearsay but rather testimony about what directly happened to the person relating the story. Do you understand the difference.

Now the issue here is who do you believe the victim (a woman captured by the IJA and held prisoner for 3 years) or the IJA (who by admission and as proven are a bunch of lying, murderous, massacre committing rapists.) If the IJA had nothing to hide why then did they attempt to destroy all evidence of the crime. Why did they massacre a lot of the victims. Why do they continue to deny it even as proof has emerged in the for of survivors, and Japanese soldiers and documentation? And why do you persist in believing the perpetrator rather than the victim? AH dont worry about answering that l already know why.

The Hakuba incident AKA Semarang incident is fairly well documented as you stated and all the documents states that the brothel in question was shut down by the IJA after investigation. There were 35 Dutch nationals within the brothel among the 20,000 dutch female civilians living at that time. They were placed in a concentration camp except for the Dutch-Indonesian half blooded which were given their freedom. This can all be collaborated with official documents within Japanese and Dutch archives as well as brothels and prostitutes that had been in service before Japan's occupation.

Nice attempt at a spin there, lets see the IJA forcefully sent 35 Dutch women (who where being held as prisoners in a concentration camp) to 4 comfort stations in what is now Indonesia. Some top IJA official found out about the situation when the Dutch complained. The comfort stations where closed and the Dutch women returned to the concentration camp. The comfort stations then reopened using mixed race women, by the way your claim that they released the mixed race women is incorrect. The Japanese also tried this at other camps containing Dutch women but there was strong resistance to it from the prisoners. Interestingly the 13 IJA men responsible where tried after the war with one being executed and the remainder given sentences of 2 to 20 years. This information is from the actual testimonies of the people there and trial information.

Let see you collaborate your stories. If you dig deeper you'll also find that many of the 35 female in the brothel in question were the Dutch-Indonesians and/or prostitutes that had provided service before the occupation.

Again incorrect the 35 where not former prostitutes, you are confusing this with a later event where the IJA tried to get 15 more women and former prostitutes volunteered to go rather than other women. This again is well documented in the reports of the time.

Oh one more thing as I have mentioned countless times brothels were legal institutions at the time like bars so when a high ranking official requests for a brothel to be made he's just asking for an enterprenuer to open an establishment not direct participation by the military.

Good one. We asked for it to be opened but arnt responsible. Yeah that works

Here is a little quote for you also from the Dutch investigation into the situation in the Dutch East Indies.

In the period between mid-1943 and-mid-1944, the use of direct physical force by the army and the Kempeitai to recruit women for the brothels became a more prominent feature of Japanese policy; in the earlier period, persuasion, intimidation and indirect threats on the part of procurers had been the usual means of exerting pressure.

So you still say the IJA was not responsible. Come on get serious.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

I believe you or more accurately your source is the one confused since there were no later attempts what you had wrote is all the same incident and the brothel was shut down within two months after opening.

Ok here are some facts for you there was 4 brothels not one as you claim. The women involved came from the following camps (1) the Fourth or Sixth Ambarawa Camp (17 women), (2) the Ninth Ambarawa Camp, (3) the Halmahera Camp, and(4) the Gendungan Camp (at this camp the older women volunteered so as to spare the younger women) located in Ambarawa and Semarang in central Java. And where sent to Semarang City.

Prior to this (sorry l earlier said after but it was prior) in around December 1943 or January 1944, Japanese military officials began gathering women from the Muntilan Women's Camp in the same central Java area to be sent to a station in Magelang. the Japanese gathered the women on this list, subjected them to physical examination, and selected 15 who were then taken away. However, as the Dutch put up a strong resistance, the Japanese demanded surrogates, for which women who were rumored to be former prostitutes volunteered.

As you can see it is 2 separate incidents that you are trying to combine into one. Now you sure its me confused and not you afterall this is taken straight from the military investigation that lead to the trials of those responsible. But yeah l must be confussed it isnt like the Japanese to be wrong now is it?

And I can not see a reason why IJA is responsible it's like saying the US military is directly responsible for any misconduct done by the bar since they issued A Sign Marks to the establishment.

You cant see why the IJA is responsible, of course you cant. Its not like the IJA captured the women, en prisoned them then selected them to pleasure their troops in their brothels. Oh wait yes they did, thats why the IJA military personal responsible where tried by the allies and some where executed as war criminals. But l seriously dont expect you to believe this afterall your government absolved these animals of their crimes and they are now worshipped by the japanese people at their little shrine true? So l would not expect you to understand at all.

One more point lets look at it this way, if your IJA had stayed in Japan rather than going on a crusade to rape and pillage, and steal and murder throughout the Pacific and Asia then this wouldnt be an issue now would it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

SamuraiBlueSEP

Spidapig24Sep. 14, 2011 - 08:04PM JST Why can't you admit the simple fact that the IJA was the ones that shut down the brothel. If you read about the incident you certainly know that fact as well so why do you keep on evading it?

Can you read? I actually did here l will post it again for you "And the station you refer to (actually the 4) where shut down after 2 months following a visit from an IJA officer from the Tokyo command and the Dutch in the camps protested to him. He then had the Officers in charge shut them down." This was from the post at 8:04 in the first part of my post. So rather than evading the point l think l addressed the point that the IJA shut down a brothel that the IJA had opened. Then reopened it shortly after shutting it down.

As for people evading things why cant you just focus on the fact the evidence is there to support these allegations. Oh thats right you believe the perpetrator not the victims

2 ( +3 / -1 )

YuriOtani, let's say woman A from country B is made a sex slave and raped daily via the government of country X. Later, country X, with no input from A, no documentation from A, no nothing from A, gives money to country B as compensation. But country B also has nothing on A and never pays her. So now X is devoid of all responsibility?

Well lets make it a little different. Let us say your car is parked legally on the street. Some guy crashed into it. He gives some money to your father, an amount he and your father agree to with no input from you. Your dad never gives you any money. Do you think any reasonable court would say you have go after your father now, for whatever paltry he sum he got?

I don't think so. I don't think Japan's little pay off to the South Korean government settles it for Japan. I would say its not over for any party involved until the sex slaves get paid. The Japanese government paid the wrong person a rather arbitrary lump sum. Its the Japanese government who should know who it slaved. And each individual claimant is owed by the Japanese government until they actually get paid and not before. Passing the buck is bull, and that is exactly what the Japanese government tried to do. If they don't like it, next time they should pay who they owe, and not leave to an irresponsible body to handle their blood money.

1 ( +5 / -3 )

There are Japanese vets, surviving comfort women and advertised documents that verify this and yet Japanese politicians, academics and the like continue to deny it has ever happened.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

SamuraiBlue

To my knowledge most were either sold off by their families and/or participated on their own.

"As for the female at the brothels I would also like to point out that the majority were Japanese females"

You have got to be joking me, but l wouldnt expect any better given your denial of the facts regarding your countries behavior during the war. Just out of curiousity what about the females that where captured by the Japanese and forced to work ing the brothels like the Dutch women captured in the East Indies. That is well documented or do you deny that too. Oh and just to correct your little lie the majority where actually Korean (51%), Chinese (36%) and the Japanese which you claimed as the majority (12%) and that is taken from IJA records. And yes there where legal brothels l agree they made up 12,000 of the 200,000 women used the remainder where taken from occupied territories and made up of Korean, Chinese, Dutch, Australian, Filipino, Burmese and Thai women.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If these women were 15-20 years by 1945, that would now make them 91-96 years old. How many of them are still alive?

Just looking at the numbers, 1945 was 66 years ago. If the Young Ladies were 15 then they would be 81 years old now and if they were 20 then they would be 86.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just a convenient way for Korea to get paid twice.

Hikozaemon, if I ever you owe you money, I will just give it to one of your country's politicians and make a deal with him to hide the fact for 40 years. During that time we will just stiff arm you and let you waste your life away in court. I am sure you won't mind and would not want to see your country get paid twice.

Or maybe you can keep in mind it was women who made into sex slaves, not Korean politicians and not the Korean government. Of course, given this secret deal, they should be made into sex slaves, if there are any takers for those dirty old geezers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

mshimusa2000 - the only problem is that Japan has already paid. The Korean government took a compensation package for colonial rule releasing Japan from all liability relating to that rule, and decided it would not share the compensation money with private citizens. Now its citizens are old, poor and want compensation - their government is telling them to go and get it from Japan themselves, instead of paying them their share.

The decision for sex slaves not to get compensation was made by the South Korean government in 1965 - the government today is quite welcome to reverse that decision. They are sending them to Japan because it is an easy way to raise popular nationalist sentiment against Japan, and because they are cheap, and don't care about these old ladies. They are just being abused by the South Korean government for nationalist point scoring.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hello Hikozaemon!!

Thank you for your input feedback..Kindly Allow me to disagree with you and I don't intend to make offensive remarks at Japan or Japanese people..For me loving my home country Korea doesn't mean I am necessarily anti-Japanese but I do find some things that Japanese Government do somewhat unacceptable..Korean Government doesn't "abuse" Korean comfort women..The word Abuse sounds like it's the Korean government who is sexually assaulting the comfort women..And there is another misunderstanding that Japanese people have about Korea and I would like to rectify that..Yes Koreans are nationalistic but then so are Japanese,Chinese,Europeans and Americans too..Is there anyone out there who really hates his own country? Why is Korean nationalism wrong? That's the lop-sided view that Japan ought to correct its view on Korea.

We are born after WWII and Koreans and Japanese youngsters should sit down and talk about these things without recrimination..Yes the Japanese Army did many many bad things in Korea and I hope Japan will not repeat attacking Korea again by military force..But I am also sick and tired of seeing Koreans burning Japanese flags and Japanese Government denying any kind of wrongdoings in Korea.But then Korea wasn't the only country that was attacked by Japan.Japanese Air Force pilots dropped bombs on China and Pearl Harbour,U.S.A. but not a single bomb was dropped onto Korea..

But still Japan must fully acknowledge its sins committed against Korean people and try to be more understanding of Korean people's pains which they had to endure under Japanese harsh military rule..Anyway my key point is to move on to the future while keeping the past in check so that our two countries relations will not deteriorate any further..But at least Japanese Government apologized to Korea and Koreans several times plus a small compensation amount of money was paid by Japan to Korea..This is a positive step forward and I hope to see better relations between our two peoples.Unlike the past,young Koreans are far more open-minded than their parents about Japan and my personal trip to Japan radically changed my view of Japan from negative to positive..The real Japan that I saw was more convincing and there is no bias to it unlike seeing Japan on a Korean TV.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

mshimusa2000 - Let's start where I think we can agree. I think we can agree that these old ladies went through a terrible time under Japanese administration of Korea. We also I think seem to agree that they deserve compensation, and probably are asking for it now partly because many of them are in circumstances where they need the compensation they are entitled to in order to survive.

Hence, in not receiving compensation, they are being victimized.

So the question becomes, who is victimizing the old ladies by withholding their compensation. ROK or Japan?

Japan's position is that claims relating to Japan's colonial rule of Korea were settled by the treaty establishing diplomatic relations between the two countries in 1965, whose purpose was to settle all such claims. The amount of compensation given to ROK at the time was not insubstantial at the time - it was a substantial chunk of Japan's GDP, and amounts were agreed based on what Japan owed Korea as compensation, and what amounts could be offset by the substantial investments Japan made in Korea under colonial rule that Korea continued to benefit from, such as national infrastructure.

The ROK government received the compensation package over many years, and made a decision at the time that the best use of the money was to spend it on rebuilding South Korea from its war with the North - the investment helped build Korea's economic miracle. But it was also decided that the compensation was best spent for the benefit for the whole country, and not individuals. I can understand the rationale of that decision, and it was easier to make because the government at that time was not democratically accountable. But it was the legitimate government of South Korea, and it was their decision to make.

The problem is of course, you have these old ladies, many of whom are destitute, and need some help. The South Korean government denied their requests for compensation saying it was owed to them by Japan. But ROK didn't support them in their private cases against Japan, most likely in part because they were sensitive to how direct participation would raise the 1965 treaty issue. My guess is that they knew that their involvement would solidify the strength Japanese position that compensation has been paid and is the responsibility of the ROK government to provide. So they encouraged them to come over to Japan on their own, where, supported by sympathetic Japanese, they brought their cases, and were told that the ROK government had already agreed to extinguish their claims.

Old ladies are out of pocket, and have wasted more money and time on what was essentially a publicity campaign to get people angry at Japan for those crimes under colonial rule.

The only people who have gained any mileage from this is the ROK government, that has raised more anti-Japan nationalist hate, which is good for popularity and diplomacy, and they haven't had to spend a cent on helping or compensating these poor old ladies.

I think they have been cynically manipulated by the ROK government as part of a nationalist publicity stunt, in a way that has left them worse off than before.

I think that constitutes abuse. The ROK government should back up its words of support, with a share of personal compensation for each of these old ladies. However, I don't think this will happen, because it will open the floodgates to everyone in Korea victimized by Japan to do the same, and all the compensation money was already spent long ago. So they blame Japan. Japan keeps apologizing....

I think the treatment of these old ladies by ROK government constitutes abuse.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Let it go world. It is exactly this mentality that keeps countries apart for 1000 years. Your great, great, great grandfather did ............ to my family. Should a Czech be angry and demand retribution for what Kangis Kan's army did. Let it go South Korea, and concentrate on protecting the people from the Kim crazy in the north.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

These women are alive and protest out side of the Japanese embassy (Soul) every Wednsday and have done for years. SamuraiBlue You must understand that your education was faulty, not your fault. There are so many accounts of atrocities, but not in Japan. So thousands of women were daily raped by IJA members, that is undeniable they were representing Japan....nice way to make friends. Trying to justify these actions just demeans Japan more, say sorry pay up and (big surprise) Japan will be respected, unlike the current situation. Nobody loves you at all.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue: "Right back at you, same as a female screams rape the male is automatically label the perpetrator."

How is that 'right back at me'. You and I would still be alive at the time of said incident, and could investigate it. In my example YOU, born long after the incidents in question, claim the victims are lying and have no proof. Man, you seriously undermine your own arguments -- no one else needs to prove how wrong you are, and how silly it looks. It wouldn't be as bad as me saying atomic bomb victims have no right to contest anyone because it never happened (they were there and experienced it, I was not but claim it never happened, ignoring the facts and even proof), that's a far more valid comparison than yours.

As for people claiming it has nothing to do with the Japanese military as a whole what these men did, quick question: if a US service person in Okinawa raped a Japanese girl (he's an 'occupier' of sorts, on Japanese soil), who would the people direct their anger at? Who gets in hot water besides the man himself? Oh, but wait! He was off work at the time and it was personal, not 'on behalf of the US'!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What proof is there ever of rape? Look how DSK walked. He just changed his story from "never happened" to "Oh, consensual!" and not even any details demanded from him. Would not matter if this happened yesterday. The IJA burned as many documents as they could. The main proof usually is the stories of people. And while some on both sides have holes in their stories, no one group has more holes than the deniers that it ever happened. How do you explain old soldiers who say their comrades are lying, and after decades of silence, finally break it to back up the claims of women like these? How do you explain the similariities between the stories of women from so many different nations, some living in very rural places, and some moved to Holland after the war?

We have to be careful not to believe everyone, but the deniers are a sick lot who do nothing but soil Japan's image with crazy crap. Its like Darth Vader saying he never went after Han Solo. That was bounty hunters! And I never ordered anyone to slaughter Jawas on Tattooine! Why should the Galactic Empire have to pay for that!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

YuriOtani

This is a silly thread, Japan is not going to enter talks with Korea. We do not have enough money for ourselves and like a lot of things charity starts at home.

Sorry but this comment has been grating on me all day. Let me say this, charity is the donation of money to assist with something (like the South Koreans giving financial support to the Japanese after the tsunami. That is charity. What these people want are reparations, that is something a victim they have suffered at the hands of others.

So no they dont want your charity they want reparations, and acknowledgement. Big difference. And yes while charity does start at home, the SOuth Koreans can care for these women yes but the country who committed the crimes should be held accountable and not just with the usual hollow apologies like the Japanese usually issue prior to going to worship their war criminals and white washing their history.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Logic rejected everywhere. Even if the tip top of the government did not order it, if other parts of the government were doing it systematically (and they were) then the government is responsible. For example, no one can prove that Hitler ordered the death camps, but the German government is still responsible. Germans admit this and that is why I respect them

Lame argument. What was "ordered" by the tip top of the government is the "cease" of such operations involving kidnap, rape, and forced recruitment. Your argument would have some merit if such orders were NEVER issued by the top. Your argument would have some merit if NO arrests/apprehension took place for such conducts in Korea during Japan's occupation.

http://sikoken.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/30/

I wonder what those who proudly thump the 1965 treaty were saying in 2004, when they still had no idea the treaty existed? I bet it went something like: Japan owes them nothing.

The treaty and the details of the agreements were somewhat of a common knowledge in Japan before 2004. It's the Korean side who withheld vital parts of the agreement including the minutes of the meetings. This is why it was such big "news" in Korea when the documents revealed that their government waived individual compensation from Japanese government in favor of lump sump payment directly to the Korean government which in turn made Korean counterparts responsible for such payments.

http://hermes-ir.lib.hit-u.ac.jp/rs/bitstream/10086/11966/1/ronso1200201520.pdf

1 ( +1 / -0 )

As for people claiming it has nothing to do with the Japanese military as a whole what these men did, quick question: if a US service person in Okinawa raped a Japanese girl (he's an 'occupier' of sorts, on Japanese soil), who would the people direct their anger at? Who gets in hot water besides the man himself? Oh, but wait! He was off work at the time and it was personal, not 'on behalf of the US'!!

Since I brought up the argument, I'll answer.

If the above incident you cite was played like the "Comfort Women Inc.", they would demand an official apology from the U.S. president acknowledging the "systematic" rape of civilians in Okinawa. Furthermore, they would demand that this conduct to be placed in all U.S. history books ASAP. Any denial , obfuscation or whitewashing of these conducts by any government official and lawmakers will be met with a demand for another apology from the President.

http://www.jttk.zaq.ne.jp/baags702/beiheiokinawahannzai.htm

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Paying these women would open the flood gates to perhaps millions of other cases. It would set presidence for even more claims. Thus it will never happen and while it happened it will be punishing today's Japanese and not the guilty.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Since the first president elected by free and democratic elections didn't happen until 1992, Japan should at least be willing to revisit this agreement.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It was taken care of in 1965...

No it's not. The issue was not included not because Japan or South Korea (or both) kept the treaty under the hat until 20 years ago, but because neither country was capable of addressing it at that time. It's a gender issue. Japan and Korea were male-dominated society at that time--and they are still holding a patriarchal ideology today.

The problem is that many critics--including this article-- tend to frame this historical dispute as a typical Japan v. Korea power struggle, rather than the tension between the state government and citizens over the needs that have been neglected for a long time. Both Japan and South Korea need to review the previous agreement and work on the issue.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Amendment,,Japan allready paid compensation in 1965, so is the problem that the compensation was paid to the Korean goverment but not passed on to the rightfull recipicants?

0 ( +3 / -2 )

When was a military not be state-run/controlled?

Problem is the compensation was paid to the SKorean Gov(decades ago) which signed a pact that no further compensations are needed. After that the Skorean Gov sat on the money and used it for its own purposes.

Of course this issue is a lot more difficult as many women volunteered or were sold by their parents to pay for food. Ditto for the "ladies of the vice" that the allied forces demanded during their japanese occupation.

You can find similar stuff in many countries during and after WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc wars..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

NetNinja.

In the words of Marie Antionette: "Let them eat Fukushima beef" until they compensate those women for sexual slavery.

May I suggest a bit more history studies.

She never said that and it was another person that did and died before Marie Antionette was born. One author incorrectly attributed it to her as he was against royalty.

You often make some valid points here but they are shot down by poor references, understandings of History, circumstances and your lets shall we say no exactly pro-stances on the topics you post on.

You are passionate(it seems) but that also hurts your arguments/posts. Not sure where that anger/hate comes from.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Historians say more than 200,000 women from Korea and other countries were forced to work as “comfort women” in military brothels used by Japanese troops during the war.

This falls under War Crimes and those involved should be tried at the Hague,

Tokyo has claimed that all issues regarding the colonial rule have been settled in a compensation deal in 1965 when the two countries agreed to normalize relations.

What about the Korean Women still in Japan who were captured and inhumanely violated during the course of the war. How many children were born from this Horror

Only a Man would say Oh, their govt was compensated. How Dare You. It's sick..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The issue is rather difficult. As Samurai says, it was not considered as a crime by Japan and they had agreed on a system of compensation with the Japanese government. Insofar, Japan can always point out to these facts. In the same way, it took the catholic church many centuries to admit that Giordano Bruno and many others were right and they were wrong burning these people as heretics, even though they had the law on their side.

However, this is not only a legal question. Even if Korean women would be able to receive compensation now, it would not be an adequate amount. It is mostly a moral issue, I think. As long as Japan removes these chapters from their history books, as long as they do not take responsibility for the deeds of their ancestors (and their ojisans), they will always be morally wrong.

It is the same to me as if Germany were relativising the Holocaust, the persecution of democratic individuals, homosexuals and ethnic minorities or any other crimes of the 3rd Reich. All these are unique, because the people who suffered and the people who commited them were unique.

Even if young people do not bear blame, they have a cultural responsibility to remember and feel ashamed. The crimes belong to the history books and to the collective perceptions of a country. Shamelessness and haughtiness are not the conditions to arrive at good terms with your neighbours. That is the real problem.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

it's a big can of worms for all involved. the truth is probably worse than anybody wants to know.

the truth is that humans are still animals.

some men are willing to pay for sex with women who do not want to have sex with them. some men don't even pay, they just take sex. some women are willing to sell themselves for sex with men they do not want to have sex with. some families are willing to sell their daughters into sex-servitude for monetary profit. all military leaders are quite aware that to keep morale high, men's sexual appetites need to be satisfied. some women enjoy sex with perfect strangers. some women will not have sex with strangers and militaries enslave some of them to keep military morale high. some families and governments make excuses for sons who have sex with enslaved women. some women regret the fact that they volunteered to have sex with strangers. some people regret the past. some people are in denial about the past. some people don't know the past. some people make excuses for the past. some people know that they don't want to know the past. some people want to know the past but are disappointed by what they learn.

it's a big can of worms. humans are animals, and war makes them even worse.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The whole world has an understanding of the horrific nature of Imperial Japan's crimes, and of Japan's steadfast refusal to even acknowledge these same disgusting actions perpetrated on behalf of the state. Ignorance is bliss

Good luck Japan but you really should know the world has not forgotten what was done and never will.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

zichi

WWII happened in the last century and that's were it should stay. It's over, it's done! Time to move onto this century.

Interesting thoughts there, considering every couple of months Japan dredges up the Kurils dispute (a direct result of their WW2 actions), they constantly dredge up the A bombs, US presence on Okinawa, etc etc etc. All these are results of WW2. So based on your idea they should stop complaining about these issues. I actually like this idea but cant see the Japanese giving their victim mentality up that easy.

Utrack

This falls under War Crimes and those involved should be tried at the Hague,

Completely agree, but whats the point the Japanese will pardon them and intern them and treat them as heros as they already have done with the rest of their war criminals. This point and this point alone to me shows Japanese apologies over their actions means jack s**t. They say one thing and do the opposite.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nice to see that even the Korean courts agree that responsibility for this now lies with the South Korean government.

This is just a case of the Korean government absconding on its own responsibility to share the compensation package it got with victims of colonialism, absolving Japan from financial and legal responsibility.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nice to see that even the Korean courts agree that responsibility for this now lies with the South Korean government.

Which is not what happened.

The article clearly states that the government of South Korea must help the women deal with Japan according to the court.

As for the 1965 treaty, it did not specifically compensate sex slaves at all. It was an agreement that the S.K. government would not demand further compensation for the occupation.

Interestingly enough, the Japanese offered to pay individuals directly, but the S.K. government went with the lump sum. If I were judging this case, I would say the former sex slaves now have the right to go after both parties. The S.K government definitely exceeded its authority and not only that, but stole from the people. But, the Japanese still payed the wrong people. I would say that after the former sex slaves are paid, Japan and S.K. governments can battle it out. But the sex slaves should be paid a.s.a.p. I think any arbitrary court would agree.

Another amazing and dastardly thing about the treaty is that it was kept secret until 2005, apparently by both governments. This also implicates Japan in the screw, only furthering Japanese responsibility despite paying the wrong people.

Once Japan pays up, it can go after the S.K. government, and let it be a lesson to them to pay the right people next time, and not keep treaties secret to aid a thief they knew was a thief.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan turned them down. Not falling for that one again.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

beangry,

being that many Japanese prostitutes volunteered for the job of servicing the American occupation troops in the immediate aftermath of WW2, it is not too far a stretch to imagine that some other Asian prostitutes would have done the same under the Japanese occupation. some destitute women may have been driven into volunteering and lived to regret it, or some poor families may have sold their daughters, and tried to cover it up, both of which happened in Japan.

you say there is no grey area. well, i guess you haven't studied history very much because it is almost entirely grey areas, and the sex-slave issue is one.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just pay the compensation money to those comfort women and call it a day! Problem solved!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sourpuss, no one is saying there were no prostitutes at that time. I'm not discussing women who sold themselves. Its been a part of asian societies for centuries, especially in Japan. You're either confusing them with the women the Japanese capured at gunpoint, raped and then in most cases murdered. Nanking is a case in point. 'comfor women' refers to sex slaves, no prostitutes. That is historical fact. Grey? Nothing grey about it. It's as clear as crystal. Well, not to apologists.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Beangry,

No confusion on my part, just disbelief at the part that where you say all of the women were held at gunpoint or were forced participants.

A sex slave is someone who is forced into sex, and I have no doubt that many of them were. I'm pointing to the ones that weren't what they say they were. And that's where the whole trouble arises: He said, she said.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So, the aftermath is, Japan apologized to Korea, but not to the women and not very convincingly (to save its face), and payed some money to Korean government to settle the issue with women. Korean government took the money, but didn't settle anything and now redirects all the problems to Japanese government, which is now removing all the traces of the crimes from the textbooks. I'd say, both governments are worth each other at hitting low.

On the other hand, if the Korean government tries to single itself out, wouldn't it be more logical to find those soldiers or their commanding officers (or their descendants), and make them pay. Governments usually deal with governments, and people with people, right? Why the J-Gov should deal with particular women, especially if it is, as it claims, a private issue. Sue the relatives and close the issue.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why can't you admit the simple fact that the IJA was the ones that shut down the brothel.

He did. And like he said, it was one lousy brothel among hundreds.

People like you who insist the system was on the up and up, always look at the early war years, before America entered the scene, when Japan was riding high and winning, when the system was on the up and up. I don't have a problem with that period of comfort woman history.

But people like you tend to overlook the later war period when Japan was losing, and had run out of willing prostitutes. That was when the comfort woman system ended and the sex slave system started, and that is the period most of us are refering to whether they realize it or not.

What you are doing is trying to convince us that Ted Bundy was actually a sweet gentle person, because he was once a sweet gentle baby. Hardly changes what he grew into.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The decision for sex slaves not to get compensation was made by the South Korean government in 1965

...in secret, with the complicency of Japan.

Hikozaemon, even if we agreed that Japan paid what it owed, by keeping it a secret for 40 years and helping to ensure the money never went to the victims in all that time, Japan raped those women for a SECOND TIME! So now Japan actually owes them a second debt and a second apology anyway, and I should think it should be about the same as the first.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

mshimusa2000 - on relations between Korea and Japan in general... It is nice to hear you are so optimistic. I personally have never heard any Korean over 50 say that they hate Japan. In fact, I've had a lovely time talking with elderly Koreans in Korea, and New Zealand IN JAPANESE, and them talking nostalgically about visits to Japan. I'd say I HAVE heard nearly half of the Koreans my own age say that, having no issue at all with using the word "hate". I think younger Koreans harbour more ill feeling toward Japan than the elderly, and it is because of campaigns like this, and the feeling that Japan is continuing to victimize Korea. It is sad to me that nationalism in Korea is fostered in education, and that anti-Japanese feeling has been adopted as a part of modern Korean identity. It is also sad that the government looks for issues to fight Japan over, like Dokdo, East Sea, spelling of Corea, etc, etc.

I think Korea is a strong enough country to have a built of national pride built separately to lingering on unfortunate, but resolved history between the two countries. I hope one day there will be leaders in Korea brave enough to stand up to anti-Japanese nationalism and point out that Japan is a natural partner and ally of Korea in NE Asia - I like president Lee because he does this to some extent (being born in Japan probably helped) - these lawsuits and this bad policy are a legacy of Roh encouraging them, and the policies of the military government.

Korea has a lot of internal history it also needs to confront about itself (including the complicity of many Koreans in colonial rule, war crimes, and sex slavery), and learn not to project all these problems onto Japan. I hope these issues can be resolved soon so Korea and Japan can be the friends and allies they should be.

Peace

0 ( +1 / -1 )

HikozaemonSep. 14, 2011 - 10:22PM JST ... I hope one day there will be leaders in Korea brave enough to stand up to anti-Japanese nationalism and point out that Japan is a natural partner and ally of Korea in NE Asia - I like president Lee because he does this to some extent (being born in Japan probably helped) - these lawsuits and this bad policy are a legacy of Roh encouraging them, and the policies of the military government. Korea has a lot of internal history it also needs to confront about itself (including the complicity of many Koreans in colonial rule, war crimes, and sex slavery), and learn not to project all these problems onto Japan. I hope these issues can be resolved soon so Korea and Japan can be the friends and allies they should be. Peace

Wonderful post, Hikozaemon. Now, we only need to shuffle country names: Japan/China; Japan/Russia; China/Russia, and backwards. And this is how it supposed to be.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Konsta - amen to that :)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No issues exist between Japan and South Korea regarding the colonial rule. Get off Japan's back! Japan 's not going to babysit you anymore.

I thought this article was about the reparation for the abduction of young girls who were then FORCED into sex slavery by Japan during WW2. Not about Babysitting a country. Abduction and repeated RAPE doesn't sound like babysitting to me.

If the US soldiers had abducted young girls and such and such during WW2 the world would still be in our face. So don't expect any different especially when you treat the decendence of the Young Korean women in Japan like second class citizens.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

At the end of it all, Japan had already compensated for the crime in 1965.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So rather than evading the point l think l addressed the point that the IJA shut down a brothel that the IJA had opened.

More specifically, Ministry of Army shut down the brothels that the 16th Division had opened. It doesn't change the fact that their both "IJA" per se but what SamuraiBlue is pointing out to is the fact that the very top of IJA did not condone this type of behavior. This incident in of itself defeats that the "Comfort Inc." continuous assertion that Japanese government at that time systematically forced/coerced these women into prostitution.

I thought this article was about the reparation for the abduction of young girls who were then FORCED into sex slavery by Japan during WW2

The issue here is if they were "forced" as they say, who forced them? Parents who sold their children to private operators/brokers for advance payment? Private brokers/operators who were mostly Koreans who used deceptive means to recruit these women?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Definitely a tough problem. How will they decide who gets compensated, how much, and then how many other people should get compensated from what they suffered in WW2. Or other wars for that matter.

There were women who were kidnapped and raped by Japanese soldiers and used as sex slaves. But they were also many who were knowingly sold by their own families, and then others tricked by Koreans. And yes, there were those who voluntarily signed up. The numbers of each, I don't know.

I think Japan has handled most things to do with WW2 badly and in the end just end up hurting their own people.

But if the Korean people and govt are so worried about the comfort women why don't they help them financially. Many of these women faced discrimination and suffering because of how they were treated by their own people.

It's enough to want to resign from the human race to realize that even today their are child sex slaves, and parents who sell their kids. (Yeah, I know - off topic. )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This incident in of itself defeats that the "Comfort Inc." continuous assertion that Japanese government at that time systematically forced/coerced these women into prostitution.

Logic rejected everywhere. Even if the tip top of the government did not order it, if other parts of the government were doing it systematically (and they were) then the government is responsible. For example, no one can prove that Hitler ordered the death camps, but the German government is still responsible. Germans admit this and that is why I respect them.

And as for systematic, it need not be jotted down on paper. The stories of kidnappings, rapes and forced prostitution are similar and common. It was institutionalized.

who forced them? Parents who sold their children to private operators/brokers for advance payment? Private brokers/operators who were mostly Koreans who used deceptive means to recruit these women?

They too are responsible. But their responsibility does not erase the responsibility of the Japanese government whose soldiers knowingly, willingly and were encouraged to rape women and beat those who resisted. It hardly matters if the place was called a "comfort station". These soldiers, these employees of the Japanese government, would have to be brain dead to not realize those women were being raped and abused, as they stood in line with their buddies to be next. Then we have the idea of who paid. The whole scheme was set up by the Japanese government. And however well-intentioned it might have been, your pleas that they "lost control" and are therefore not responsible, don't hold water. Such excuses might work if a handful of soldiers went rogue. But when a situation is endemic to your military across several nations your country has occupied, trying to dodge responsibility is dishonest, scummy and cowardly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sorry Cricky good info but the capital of South Korea is spelled SEOUL, not SOUL, soul is that music from SOUL TRAIN, look up SOUL TRAIN on youtube, and yes, the capital of the South Korean Republic is SEOUL, I am sure your spell checker if you turn it on, may help once in a while, it always helps me. But thanks for the information about the protests at the Japanese embassy over in Seoul!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Elbuda

the capital of South Korea is spelled SEOUL, not SOUL

Don't want to look like I'm picking fights with you (yesterday it was Colombia/Columbia), but "Soul" is an acceptable version. The Korean government came up with their own system of Romanisation, which created place-names like "Seoul", "Incheon" and "Anseong", each with a silent "e", but the traditional McCune system doesn't do this. And although the new system is more popular, it's still not correct to say that "Soul" is wrong.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So CrazyJoe Are you saying it's legally O.K. for Japanese soldiers to rape Korean and other comfort women? I hope that's not what you really mean right..Even Japanese PMs have offered apologies to Korea..You seem to have wrong information on Korea.But then I don't blame you since you are not Korean anyway and although it would be a nice thing if foreigners understand Korea I certainly don't expect all foreigners to understand the pains that Japanese inflicted on Koreans..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

One thing I'd like to see is to resolve this comfort women issue by having an international parley in Seoul,Korea. In the end, Japan will have to face the hard reality that it cannot get away with wrongdoings like raping those women. Why cannot Japan just face the past and pay the compensation to those women?

Surely Japan has enough money on its own to pay to comfort women.Each year,Japan rakes up trillions of trade surplus money making Japan so rich..It'd be nice if Japan can pay a certain amount of lump money and make comfort women feel comfortable and be happy. . Paying compensation money will be very meaningful to those comfort women who have toiled all their life seeking support for their tribulations..Let's sort this out and I want Japan to be bolder in acknowledging its wrongdoings..Korea is not going to hurt Japan if Japan makes the right choices in improving relations between Seoul & Tokyo!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I have got nothing against Japan or its people who are innocent..I only dislike those Japanese who dislikes Korea and Koreans which I am sure do exist..Unless Japanese people hurt Korean national pride, I am all the more for Japanese. In fact, I like Japanese people on the whole especially the women.. They seem quite nice,friendly and kind..Ganbare Nippon!! Korea and Japan are already friends they just view the past history in a different perspective!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The 1965 treaty was kept secret at the behest of the Korean side, that was afraid of precisely this happening to them - millions queing up for their cut of Japan's compensation payout.

Again, sucks for the people of South Korea, but they were screwed by their own government, not Japan.

Peace

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The 1965 treaty was kept secret at the behest of the Korean side

But still Japan kept it a secret that Japan paid the S.K. government, not the victims, and did this all the while knowing the victims were not paid. What does this mean? It means Japan did not pay to compensate the victims. Japan paid for the victims to be shut up, and knew it.

This is further evidenced by the fact that when cases were brought up in Japan, they were dismissed with a bunch of irrational excuses. Japan knew they were getting screwed, but said nothing. Japan was an integral part of the screw.

Because the victims did not know about the payments, they did not know they could sue the S.K. government. Japan kept that secret, despite their clear responsibility to the victims. The sex slaves were screwed by both Japan and S.K. The two worked in sick twisted tag team fashion and denied these women their due. A child could understand this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What was "ordered" by the tip top of the government is the "cease" of such operations involving kidnap, rape, and forced recruitment.

Nigelboy, all you want to do is deny, avoid and obfuscate. Its obvious to all of us. Both the left hand and the right hand belong to the government. Even if what you say is true, it hardly matters if the left hand was pure and tried to stop the right hand. The right hand remains part of the government, and the government is responsible.

The treaty and the details of the agreements were somewhat of a common knowledge in Japan before 2004.

You actually think that absolves the government of responsibility??

We might as well be talking about flying saucers here. One day the government says they exist and gives us proof, and you say, well, it was common knowledge all along. Look at the tourism and theme parks of Roswell, New Mexico! Everybody knew!

Dude, I wonder if you are trying to convince us or yourself of this crap. You are like a mother whose son breaks windows with another boy, and you try to blame it all on the other kid, insisting to the last that your son is a good boy. Nope, your son is a gobshite.

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In the USA's wild, wild west (western states) the philosophy has always been: "Possession is 9/10 of the law." The islands are not going back to Japan. S. Korea is owed nothing for the sex slave problem. It happened, and history cannot be changed. Every country in the world that ever rose to the superpower status of that time period committed crimes against humanity. What does S. Korea really want? Money? Who pays it? Is the 21 year old working at Mc Do have to pay a higher income tax because his/her great grandfather committed a crime? It makes no sense, and it will never end because the grandchildren can continue the claim. Let it go world, and try solving today's problems.

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Japan has apologized for the military’s involvement in crimes against the women but insists the offenses were committed privately rather than on behalf of the state. Tokyo has claimed that all issues regarding the colonial rule have been settled in a compensation deal in 1965 when the two countries agreed to normalize relations.

'Comfort-able' responses by Japan on this question of 'Comfort Women' ! Donot blame the neighbors over their continuous effort in teaching their children about what Japan's war machines did 70 years ago.. The point is : One can keep denying & dismissing those 'stories' as political propagandas & crimes were committed privately...This 'sweeping-under-the carpet' attitude & act, maintained since decades, kept passing on unnecessary 'burden' to many innocent Japanese offsprings.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To begin with, the issue of "sex on the battle field" is an old and enduring problem, which is not limited to East Asia in WWII. In the case of Japanese army, some personal accounts have been made into the falsehood, which has been spread all over the world today. There was a point in time when some Japanese conducted a campaign wherein "comfort women" (prostitutes) were rounded up like slaves and forced to be the companions of Japanese soldiers. To make it worse, the Murayama JSP/LDP government's responses have, without foundation on facts, preferred to concerns of the predicament governments of neighboring countries were in.

I want to share background information and US army documents on this issue. "In 1945, in Myitkynia in northern Burma, twenty Korean comfort women and their employers, a Mr. and Mrs. Kitamura, were interviewed. In the record, we can find statements such as "comfort women" are nothing more than simple prostitutes" and "the women's average total monthly earnings were 1,500 yen, and 750yen, which went to their bosses" (at that time, monthly pay of a sergeant in the Japanese army was 30 yen, meaning those prostitutes made over 25 times more money!)

"The 'house master' received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the 'master'. Many 'masters' made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles. In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea." (US office of war Information, Psychological and Warfare Team, attached to the US Army Forces India-Burma Theater, APO 689)

http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

In March of 1945, depositions were taken from three Korean civilians. They said, "On the battle zones of the Pacific War, the Korean comfort women we met were all either volunteers, or women who had been sold by their parents." (Composite Report on Three Korean Civilians List No. 78, dated 28 March, 1945, "Special Question on Koreans" in the US National Archives)

In 1983, a Japanese man named Yoshida Seiji, who was later found out to be a member of Japanese Communist Party, had "confessed" by saying "During the war, I went to Cheju Island (in Korea) under orders from the army to round up several women to be military comfort women". Then Asahi Shinbun (News paper) reported his "confession" as truth and on Aug 11, 1991, Asahi correspondent Takashi Murakami reported that "One of the Korean military comfort women who were forcibly taken to the battlefield as comfort woman has come forward"

In 1989, a female journalist of the Cheju Island Newspaper followed up the story by conducting on the spot investigation. The local residents all denied the story, saying, "We have lived here since that time, and we know nothing of this". A local historian also refuted to the story by saying, "I have followed up the research myself, but it is simply not true".

It was later found out that Asahi Newspaper had cited "a testimony of a former comfort woman called Kim Hak-sun" who was suing Japanese government to obtain compensation. She filed to the Tokyo District Court and stated, "I was sold and had to become a gi-saeng (Korean female entertainer)." However, Asahi intentionally neglected her testimony and deleted the above comment that she had been sold by her parents to a gi-saeng house. Instead, they fabricated that it had been done under "coercion" by Japanese army.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Historians say more than 200,000 women from Korea and other countries were forced to work as “comfort women”

Greatly over-simplifiying a complicated matter. And that will be exploited by people who insist there were no sex slaves.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

We can wrap things up quite nicely here with "Don't hold your breath"

Even if Japan is wrong (which they know they are) you can't expect them to pay.

The only argument these Korean women have is to use Japan's own system against it's self. The government must share the blame for what happened to these women cause those offenders were sent there by the government. It was an invasion. Those Japanese soldiers did not have permission to enter the sovereign land of Korea. Thus Japan is responsible for the actions of it's troops.

It's funny though. These women think they'll be compensated when Japan won't even take care of it's own.

Seriously, you can't expect a dime from a country that's willing to amputate part of it's identity and culture (Fukushima and surrounding areas). In the old days Japanese would commit suicide for shame and dishonor. Nowadays, people like TEPCOs chief eat Shabu Shabu with impunity while others suffer for their actions.

Koreans won't see a dime.

My advice: Stop letting Japanese come over to Korea and use you for mud baths and massages, skin treatments. Stop treating them so royally, better than your own people. Lady in my office went to Korea only weeks ago. She bragged about how Koreans speak Japanese poorly but served her well. Stop serviing them so well. Enjoy your Korean BBQ and don't share it. Get your country behind you. Now is a good time to strike.

In the words of Marie Antionette: "Let them eat Fukushima beef" until they compensate those women for sexual slavery.

-1 ( +6 / -5 )

I think the south Koreans and all other nations that has women being enslaved by the Japanese military should take actions to make the Japanese government apologise! What the japanese government wants is those former sexual 'hostages' dying out and there will be no critics of Japan and their education department will claiming those ladies were 'prostitutes' to insult other countries! Time for actions now! The Japanese government owed everyone a 'sincreely apology'!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

insists the offenses were committed privately rather than on behalf of the state.

That is rich! The military is run by the state, is it not?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

WWII happened in the last century and that's were it should stay. It's over, it's done! Time to move onto this century.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

"Japan has apologized for the military’s involvement in crimes against the women but insists the offenses were committed privately rather than on behalf of the state."

And yet numerous politicians since said 'half-a$$ed' apology have tried to RESCIND the apology and deny there was any military involvement whatsoever, most recently Abe, who was utterly embarrassed and had to admit the truth later. And lest we forget the white-washed textbooks and 'nationalist-approved' history lessons which usually don't touch on the issue at all. Japan is absolutely pathetic in terms of this issue, and cannot and will not live up to their responsibilities in addressing it. As with many other issues relating to colonization and the atrocities the Imperial Army committed, politicians and right-wingers alike are just biding their time and waiting for the survivors to die off so they can make more efforts to say it never happened.

Sadly, these poor women who have suffered so much will see nothing from Japan on the issue. In fact, if the issue comes to Japan we're more likely to see right-wingers who were born just after the war telling this women who were there and experienced it that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.

Finally, the idea that it was 'personal and not on behalf of the state' is ludicrous. If a soldier commits a crime on foreign OR domestic soil they are representing that nation's military, bottom line. The clothes they peeled off before raping (in many cases) these women were of the Japanese Imperial Army, and even if they considered themselves 'off duty' they were still working for said army, and on behalf of said nation.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The comments here never seem to amaze me. Its funny but sad on how Japan attempts to perceive their version of history, while the rest of the world sees something completely different. I understand that we must all move on but when you have wronged someone, a sincere apology is in order. Wouldn't it anger you if they half assed an apology?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Utrack, yes! I stand corrected. So the women would be now 81-86 years old. So how many are still alive, does anyone know?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's irrelevant that the UN wasn't formed until 1945. War crimes existed before that - and sex slavery is a pretty egregious one. More importantly, member states o the UN voluntarily agree to abide by international law, and even more so when they ratify treaties. I listed several treaties on human rights that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and other independent respected experts cite when discussing Japan's obligations under CURRENT law. A real apology to Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos is part of that. Again, the people who write those decisions are independent, impartial and respected experts in their field, they do not represent Korea or Japan, and are pretty objective.

As for people making up your facts and going as far as to say those women voluntarily leases themselves as prostitutes, you have no evidence for such nonsense. The Japanese executed outright most of those women, after raping them 40x a day sometimes for weeks. They didn't 'volunteer' anymore than the Jews or Slaves the nazis threw into slave factories. Brothels? What a piffle. There is no 'grey' area, and it doesn't matter how the Japanese choose to interpret the facts. Sexual slavery they did as an official state policy en masse. The women say as a prerequisite to putting it behind them, a real apology is in order.

Strange how Japanese want the US to apologise. Where are the real Japanese apologies? Start with the 10-13 million Chinese they killed in WWII. The silence is defeaning. But don't worry, some apologist here will say 'there is no evidence' or that the Chinese 'volunteered' just like the sex slaves did. The Japanese volunteered. Yes, they were Hitler's ally.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What if the government of Korea now is a thief, and so a future government asks for more money?

Just a convenient way for Korea to get paid twice.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No issues exist between Japan and South Korea regarding the colonial rule. Get off Japan's back! Japan 's not going to babysit you anymore.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Hello CrazyJoe Why do you call Japan as a babysitter of Korea? I don't understand what you mean by using the word babysitting.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

mshimusa2000 great comment. (the long one)!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think one major reason that it's so hard to prove the sex-slave issue is because the brothels probably were mainly outsourced. Japanese brothel owners would come from Japan to run them and bring some women, soem would eb local volunteers, and others would be caught by the IJA and put in the brothels, but of course the IJA could easily claim, as it was true, that the brothels weren't run by them. It's a situation where it is far too easy to hide for the perpetrators and just claim there were a few rogue individuals. Also proving force 65 years after the fact is nigh on impossible. It might have only been verbal threats sometimes but it still constitutes rape. What would be really useful would be a smoking gun, like the emails in the recent phonehacking scandal, but of course there wasn't the same level of communication around then, and I doubt the army specifically issued a direct order to go out and get whichever woman you wanted and put her in the brothels, it was more a case of turning a blind eye and letting a bunch of psycho soldiers be psycho soldiers.

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Sometimes I really wonder if behind all the HEIWA, 平和 this and HEIWA that, deep down inside of Japan there is still anger and hate towards other Asians, Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos, Okinawans etc..and the Japanese not everybody but at least many of the old farts in Nagatacho see themselves as SUPERIOR to other Asians and they feel these other Asians are INFERIOR so they really could care less for sex slaves etc..from so called inferior Asians, but when a white person, a white woman, say that Nova teacher from England was raped and then killed by that idiot bisexual psycho a few years back, OH MY GOD, time to BEND OVER BACKWARDS, heck just plain BEND OVER for the white man, for BBC, CNN etc..and try to show how angry and upset regular Japanese are over this kind of atrocity, but hey 200,000 pesky Korean women and BOYS, many pretty boys actually were also forced into the sex slave mess by Dai Nippon Teikoku, 大日本帝国, yes the land of the Rising SON?? Not just the Land of the Rising Sun!! For shame, even the bloody Nazis over in Germany have apologized to the Jews, etc..when will JAPAN offer a sincere apology to other Asians?? and Asagao is on a role, PUT ALL OF THIS IN THE JAPANESE HISTORY BOOKS NOW, sure the Uyoku will not like it, the Japanese Right Wing is the closest thing to the KKK and just like the KKK they want to white wash history, right??

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mshimusa1: "In the end, Japan will have to face the hard reality that it cannot get away with wrongdoings like raping those women."

Actually, in the end Japan would just say, "We don't need foreign input" and bury their heads deep in the sand, first asking someone to come and pull their heads out only when all the sex slaves are dead and gone. They'd still have to pull their heads out of their butts after that, but first things first.

Sadly, the world has petitioned, asked kindly, held demonstrations and exhibitions, demanded, etc., that Japan address the issue FORMALLY, apologize FORMALLY and genuinely, and pay reparations. The most recent example I can think of besides the continual attempts by the women in question is when a US Senator pushed for Japan to recognize the sex-slave issue and make appropriate apologies and compensations. The result? Shinzo Abe decided it was time for Japan to go BACKWARDS on the issue and not only denied that any Imperial soldiers 'partook' of the comfort women's services, but went so far as to say it gave employment opportunities to the women (who should be thankful), that they were not abused, and finally the most insulting: tried to deny (and then retract) the apology a former PM made in the 90's. Fortunately, absolute proof was presented to Abe that the Imperial Army engaged in sex with the comfort women and he had to get in front of the media and admit he was wrong (and quickly tried to sweep it under the wrong as it was before). I think this is about when his stomach troubles began. :)

So, no, mshimusa... Japan will not acknowledge what happened, and if someone is progressive and has the courage enough to do so -- the right-wingers and future politicians will take the inevitable step back and deny any acknowledgement took place, along with denying sexual slavery in the first place, etc. etc. And they wonder why they are so hated on this and similar issues around the world.

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I wonder what those who proudly thump the 1965 treaty were saying in 2004, when they still had no idea the treaty existed? I bet it went something like: Japan owes them nothing.

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In the USA's wild, wild west (western states) the philosophy has always been: "Possession is 9/10 of the law." The islands are not going back to Japan. S. Korea is owed nothing for the sex slave problem. It happened, and history cannot be changed. Every country in the world that ever rose to the superpower status of that time period committed crimes against humanity. What does S. Korea really want? Money? Who pays it? Is the 21 year old working at Mc Do have to pay a higher income tax because his/her great grandfather committed a crime? It makes no sense, and it will never end because the grandchildren can continue the claim. Let it go world, and try solving today's problems.

Read the article before you write anything.

The Korean government is not asking for money. Korea wants to set up a panel to investigate and conclude the comfort women issue. Japan to this day still denies much of the historical evidence on this issue and prints textbooks that say otherwise. A Korea-Japan-third party panel would end all debate on this issue if Japan only agreed to it. Thus far, Japan refuses to do so, most likely because all the evidence goes against them.

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Good and honest song on this topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjVfVzKR3cc

Confirmed by many stories from vets across the ages, especially the 2nd half.

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This is an matter of justice, truth and honor which are virtues that seem to be lost on nippon government, private individuals who share in denying war crimes.

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Compensation of money to those old ladies were not enough!!! Absolutely not acceptable and all the countries who has 'comfort women' issues must keep chasing this matter until 'a sincerely apology'! They better dont condisering once those 'comfort women' dying out and the problems will 'fade away'! Remember those suffered old ladies were insulted with the word : Prostitutes!!! Keep chasing this issue, no sincerely apologies no stop, let the world knows!

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Japan has apologized for the military’s involvement in crimes against the women but insists the offenses were committed privately rather than on behalf of the state.>

Not true. Those 'apologies' the Japanese make do not meet international standards. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rigts, Pillay, and the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, Manjoo, both stated to the Japanese government the need to take the former sex slaves' concerns seriously. What do these women want? They 'do not want to receive economic compensation without an official apology and official recognition of state responsibility.'

And therein lies the problem: those false apologies do not address the problem of RESPONSIBLILITY, hence the reason why 80+ yr old women reject them. The Germans gave the Jews a real apology, why not the Japanese?

Don't take my word for it. Do a simple google search for Japan's refusal to meet it's international obligations under the UN Human Rights Committee, Committee Against Torture and the Convention for the Elimination o all Forms of Racial Dscrimimation. Each has made recommendations.

Amnesty International, the EU etc have put resolutions forward asking Japan to do this. See amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=19106

@yuriotani,!Christina O'neill , it definitely was not solved in 1965 with that treaty; you're stating the Japanese side, which no one accepts - least of all the UN. There are two sides to the strory. You're choosing to ignore what the South Korean Supreme Court said, for even they recognise that compensation was not paid and he proble. Not settled in 1965. Please stop regurgitating Japanese nonsense.

As for textbooks, the UN denounced Japan's bogus history. What do you guys expect? They can't tell the truth with Fukushima and that is right now.

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Comfort women have been exploited in virtually every war that has ever been fought in history and their stories are all too often swept aside to the margin of history. I am almost speechless when I read about the stories of the survivors of the Japanese military sex slavery. It's reprehensible. They can hopefully learn from those mistakes and make everything possible to keep from what they did from ever happening. On the other hand I wonder about the dark side of the Korean entertainment industry and how innocent girls are being exploited and trapped in. Isn't this another atrocity or a modern day sex slavery?

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If these women were 15-20 years by 1945, that would now make them 91-96 years old. How many of them are still alive?

Some people are citing the UN, but the UN didn't exist until after the war? Someone else stated it was a war crime but so was the dropping of two atomic bombs on civilians.

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Spidapig24Sep. 14, 2011 - 01:42PM JST; You have got to be joking me, but l wouldnt expect any better given your denial of the facts regarding your countries behavior during the war. Just out of curiousity what about the females that where captured by the Japanese and forced to work ing the brothels like the Dutch women captured in the East Indies. That is well documented or do you deny that too. Oh and just to correct your little lie the majority where actually Korean (51%), Chinese (36%) and the Japanese which you claimed as the majority (12%) and that is taken from IJA records. And yes there where legal brothels l agree they made up 12,000 of the 200,000 women used the remainder where taken from occupied territories and made up of Korean, Chinese, Dutch, Australian, Filipino, Burmese and Thai women.

You'll need to check your source better, IJA didn't have any records since most of the brothels were privately owned. The basis I used are statements from the veterans who used those places. As for the Dutch women, from what I can find the IJA after learning of the incident investigated the brothel and closed it down convicting the people responsible.

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It's hearsay if statements cannot be collaborated and/or if one contradicts another. The Hakuba incident AKA Semarang incident is fairly well documented as you stated and all the documents states that the brothel in question was shut down by the IJA after investigation. There were 35 Dutch nationals within the brothel among the 20,000 dutch female civilians living at that time. They were placed in a concentration camp except for the Dutch-Indonesian half blooded which were given their freedom. This can all be collaborated with official documents within Japanese and Dutch archives as well as brothels and prostitutes that had been in service before Japan's occupation. Let see you collaborate your stories. If you dig deeper you'll also find that many of the 35 female in the brothel in question were the Dutch-Indonesians and/or prostitutes that had provided service before the occupation.

Oh one more thing as I have mentioned countless times brothels were legal institutions at the time like bars so when a high ranking official requests for a brothel to be made he's just asking for an enterprenuer to open an establishment not direct participation by the military.

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I believe you or more accurately your source is the one confused since there were no later attempts what you had wrote is all the same incident and the brothel was shut down within two months after opening.

And I can not see a reason why IJA is responsible it's like saying the US military is directly responsible for any misconduct done by the bar since they issued A Sign Marks to the establishment.

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Can't see the dividing line since the resistance was the event that blew the whistle for IJA to investigate which resulted the shut down which all happened with the two month period. IJA in general was not the one orchestrating the forced sexual abuse which you seem to believe since it was IJA that forced the shut down and I never mentioned the number of institutions. To my knowledge one was for upper ranking officers, another for lower ranking officers and the rest for enlisted men I guess. There were other brothels that were open for business as well.

So is IJA in general responsible?

Certainly not but some renegade military members were involved, end of story.

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smithinjapanSep. 14, 2011 - 07:55PM JST; I always love it when the people were born long after the fact tell the people who experienced somethat that the victims are wrong and 'have no proof' (while of course, the people claiming the victims are wrong simply MUST have proof!). As long as there are people like Samurai who deny the atrocities and actions like the sex slaves while playing up Japan being the victim in everything, nothing will be solved.

Right back at you, same as a female screams rape the male is automatically label the perpetrator. Sorry if it doesn't work in the court room it certainly does not work in examining history.

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Spidapig24Sep. 14, 2011 - 08:04PM JST

Why can't you admit the simple fact that the IJA was the ones that shut down the brothel. If you read about the incident you certainly know that fact as well so why do you keep on evading it?

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I was just trying to say Japan has been too good to them since the Annexation of Korea in 1910. And what do you get in return? Korea was a slum back then. Japan has helped Korea modernize. There's a lot I coulld tell you, but I won't since my post got deleted before for telling the truth about Korea.

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The treaty and the details of the agreements were somewhat of a common knowledge in Japan before 2004. It's the Korean side who withheld vital parts of the agreement including the minutes of the meetings. This is why it was such big "news" in Korea when the documents revealed that their government waived individual compensation from Japanese government in favor of lump sump payment directly to the Korean government which in turn made Korean counterparts responsible for such payments.

The 1965 treaty was signed by an illegitimate military dictatorship, not by a democratically elected government. I don't understand why Japan apologists believe the current government of South Korea had anything to do with what dictator Park did. There were mass riots in 1965 against the normalizing of relations. He had many of the rioters thrown into prison or shot. Japan did not even recognize Parks government until the very same day it signed the 1965 treaty.

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And then to claim this was perpetuated by private individuals??? Really?? Korea was a police state during occupation and everything was done through the military.

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No, samuraiblue, you're just making up things. Where is your proof that Koreans -btw this includes the north as well - sold their own women to Japanese soldiers? That is outrageous apologetics. The soldiers forcefully took the women, and forced them to be slaves. Your comments are as sickening as David Duke and other Holocaust deniers.

Next are the Filipino women. The Chinese women. They weren't sold either. You know it. Btw it's not I who has the problem. Alm of the relevant UN human rights bodies have repeatedly cited Japan for violations to international treaties. What those women wantis not money but a real apology, something Japan denies them based on he lie that they can't give a full apology in the Japanese language. The reason you peoe refuse to apologise is 1) because admitting responsibility will mean further lawsuits and 2) the bitter racism Japanese have towards other Asians.

I'm happy to remind you,samurai, that you come from the Korean peninsula and before that China and before that Mongolia. No , you are not superior to the Mongoloid gene you come from.

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Beyond hearsay and statements from the victims there is not much evidence that support their claim so it's a moot point that can be argued until the cows come home which I have no interest in. On the other hand what I pointed out there are countless proof through payment receipt to the brothels, requisitions for passage permits from the private middle men and so on that were documented and archived. The whole brothel industry was very much organized so the military did not need to go in and create it for themselves. As for the female at the brothels I would also like to point out that the majority were Japanese females. The UN will naturally shun a gross encroachment of human rights but that really does not give light to what really happened nor does it reflect the norm of those days.

As for where I came from, Japan of course and it really does not matter how my genes ended up on this island.

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This is a silly thread, Japan is not going to enter talks with Korea. We do not have enough money for ourselves and like a lot of things charity starts at home.

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What a joke. And you wonder why Korean and Japan don't get along?

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And again can someone explain to me the logic behind claiming you've already apologized and compensated for something that you deny has ever happen???

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Samuraiblue> Sorry but it's not going to happen.

SK government representative on behave of all on the Korean peninsula, stipulated the amount and how compensation should be made and Japan fulfilled those demands in full. With payment, a treaty was signed stating all issues had been settled, end of story.

If you have a problem with it take it up with the SK government not Japan.

As for how they were taken, it's differs from one individual to the next and since brothels themselves were not against the law at the time it's falls in the gray zone. To my knowledge most were either sold off by their families and/or participated on their own. At the time there were middle men between the brothels and actual recruitment so the military had very little in participating in the whole scheme of thing since most of the brothels were private institutes as well.

This is the most intelligible comment so far. Keep it coming. I'll back you.

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Sorry but it's not going to happen.

SK government representative on behave of all on the Korean peninsula, stipulated the amount and how compensation should be made and Japan fulfilled those demands in full. With payment, a treaty was signed stating all issues had been settled, end of story.

If you have a problem with it take it up with the SK government not Japan.

As for how they were taken, it's differs from one individual to the next and since brothels themselves were not against the law at the time it's falls in the gray zone. To my knowledge most were either sold off by their families and/or participated on their own. At the time there were middle men between the brothels and actual recruitment so the military had very little in participating in the whole scheme of thing since most of the brothels were private institutes as well.

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I always thought IJA stood for " International Jugglers' Association", probably thinking about the swedish juggler. Joking aside, it is true the Imperial Japanese Army raped women so as any army during war. Regarding the so called "comfort women" I believe they were just paid prostitutes. They're bunch of liars who claim otherwise. Do you know how many people are accused of 虚偽告訴罪 (falsely accusing someone of a crime) in South Korea is? It's 4580, and of those 2171 were indicted. In Japan it was 133 with 10 indicted. When you consider the population, South Korea had 543 times as many indictments for 虚偽告訴罪 (perjury) than Japan. Now, do you know who's telling the truth?

Souce 朝鮮日報

http://www.chosunonline.com/news/20100202000025

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Like Yuri had said this problem is Korea's internal problem since Japan had paid compensation in 1965 to the SK government in the method SK government had stipulated. If Japan acknowledges this then it will have further implication down the road if and when NK collapses making demands that Japan needs to compensate them as well.

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@melonbarmonster: You better dont expect 'Justice' from the Japanese government as people like Mr Noda who claimed: War criminals were no criminals! Japan always insulting those suffered old ladies were 'Prostitutes'! It was outraging and no matter where Japanese PM or FM goes in the world, those questions of comfort women must be raised to embrass their dipolmacy! By the way, Mr Noda's factions wont like long maybe less than 1 year, so those victims and families must hurry, otherwise they have to start again those protests again once the future PM sworn in!

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It was taken care of in 1965 and if they need compensation it needs to be paid by the South Korean government. The compensation money was paid to the South Korean government from the government of Japan.

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