S Korean 'comfort women' to file $20 mil lawsuit in California

The judge should tell Korea and China and other countries to give back all the compensation monies and tear up all the deeply remorseful letters of apologies by every single PM since the end of the war, and renegotiate the whole thing.

Why use the US legal court system? Why not use the South Korean legal court system?

It is out of the jurisdiction of the American courts.

Demanding sincere apologies is one thing, but demanding more money when agreements and settlements were already made is another. It's supposedly known even among Koreans that the SK government used the money for other means, so why are they doing this?

RE: Park has previously maintained there can be no meeting with Abe until Japan makes amends for its “comfort women” system.

Park should turn to her historical government records where previous Japan officials have paid sums of money to the Korean government officials who cheated the comfort women from compensation monies and instead used it for self profit, including Parks father, but seems they ignore that part of history and instead are wasting good US court systems designed for US matters.

The 1965 treaty explicitly says that "ALL" issues from the war are hereby resolved. Then a year or two later, the Koreans suddenly come out with the "comfort woman" (I prefer "sex slave") issue. Since the treaty said all problems were resolved, there was no political/governmental way to deal with the issue. So the Japanese government arranged for a private fund to pay reperation to the women. However, few came forward (it was reported that most were embarrassed and did not want to upset their new lives). Kono apologized. Why does that not count? What is really going on here. Basically, it is a way to make the issue known in the US and embarrass the Japanese. Anyway, good luck getting any press coverage. Americans are notably un-newsy.

However, few came forward (it was reported that most were embarrassed and did not want to upset their new lives

they were also supposedly pressured by the korean gov't at the time to not accept the compensation.

the only reason to file in the US is that the US will allow almost all lawsuits to proceed, thereby granting the SK gov't some PR on the issue. the ICJ would just laugh korea out of its courts.

The same case was heard 15 years ago. They should stop filing the same case again and again at foreign courts.

http://www.internationalcrimesdatabase.org/Case/775/Hwang-Geum-Joo-v-Japan/

Hwang Geum Joo et al. v. Japan

On 18 September 2000, fifteen “comfort women” field a lawsuit against Japan in the United States alleging that they were forcibly abducted from their homes and coerced into serving as sex slaves for the Japanese military before and during World War II.

The present lawsuit was brought by fifteen former “comfort women” against Japan. Having been unsuccessful before the United States District Court for the District of Columbia and the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, the Supreme Court vacated the decision of the Court of Appeals and remanded the case. By its decision of 28 June 2005, the Court of Appeals once again dismissed the appeal on the grounds that the Appellant’s claims were non-justiciable under the political question doctrine as they would require the Courts to interpret treaties concluded between foreign States.

Related developments

On 21 September 2006, the Supreme Court denied certiorari in respect of the appeal against the decision of the Court of Appeals from 2005.

The case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, and was conclusively dismissed. No need to repeat the same.

Money fixes everything! This time, 20MUSD will restore some lost Korean pride! And, yes, it is never about the money! Cough! Cough!

MrBrum is right. HER FATHER received reparations meant for Korean citizens, but he used the money to modernize the state (and himself, some say) by subsidies etc. The Korean people never got a single won. Oh yes, HER FATHER was trained by and served with the Japanese army, don't forget. And he was an excellent student (優等生) they say.

bjohnson23: Japan is not the only country where history books favour its own nation. Korea, China, even US.

Allied ex-POWs who were victimised by the brave Korean prison staff should file proceedings through Japanese courts.

In America, anybody can sue anybody for any reason, whether the damages occurred in the remote past or immediate present. The purpose of this exercise is to dump obscene amounts of money into the pockets of the legal profession.

“The Japanese government should offer an official and sincere apology" Again?! and again?, and again?, and again?, and again?...

M3M3M3Jun. 24, 2015 - 04:33PM JST "It is out of the jurisdiction of the American courts". Not necessarily. There are dozens of civil cases where American courts recognise their universal jurisdiction where >human rights abuses have taken place around the world.

But none of those have involved a country where post war treaties hsve established limits of liability. Not to mention that the US-Japan relationship is a bit deeper than US-Yugoslavia and State Dept would have an interest. Waste of time, as proven in 2000. So it's nothing more than a publicity stunt to keep Americans deceived.

Surely a more appropriate line of action would have been via the International Court of the Hague?

These ladies might be pursuing this in a U.S. Court... but I've got to think that it will be thrown out because the court does not have jurisdiction.

If they were, there are attorneys in the US that would be turning this into a class action and would likely be doing it on 100% contingency. In otherwords there would be providing their services at no cost, and would be hunting down others in a similar situation to represent - and the amount would not be $20m, it would be in the billions of dollars.

A good attorney in the US will realize how much a US court will hate to take the case. Though perhaps US courts have made excuses to try someone in places where they don't have jurisdictions, that's for "Who Cares" countries.

But more critical for any judge tempted to bend rules is what kind of precedent he'd set. If he chooses to not get out of trialing it, he'd be confronted with a ridiculously thin evidence set. The "usual" evidence that satisfies Western historians (which frankly seems thin enough) is useless. You can't point to general problems for the same reason you can't point to a newspaper article concerning robbery to prove you personally had been robbed. Neither are any testimonies by Japanese soldiers - again they can point to the existence of this problem, but unless they can identify the plaintiff, they are useless for proving the plaintiffs were harmed. Further, they'd be the last to have a qualified opinion as to how they are sourced. A rumor is not admissible in court, not if they keep to even half their usual standards concerning hearsay. As for the efforts to use cases in the Dutch New Indies or Phillipines to buttress Korean cases well that's clearly not going to hack it. In short, the evidence pile quickly goes down to "victim testimony", i.e. accusations. That's not even a prima facie case.

He should throw the case out due to lack of evidence, really, but politically in the States it is hard for him to do that (and a case so politicized before trial is by itself cause for a throwout). The remaining option is to rule in favor of the plaintiffs on evidence that would make Soviet People Court trials look like the gold standard of toughness. Though this is a civil case with somewhat lower standards, he would still be personally responsible for an inerasable blot on the US legal system, especially as it passes into precedent. And when the judge realizes all this, he'd find himself a way out.

And good legal advice should predict all this.

So the Japanese government arranged for a private fund to pay reperation to the women. However, few came forward (it was reported that most were embarrassed and did not want to upset their new lives). Kono apologized. Why does that not count? What is really going on here. Basically, it is a way to make the issue known in the US and embarrass the Japanese. Anyway, good luck getting any press coverage. Americans are notably un-newsy.

Do you understand why the Japanese government set up a "private" fund? If it was done through the government it would have given the issue official status. Many of the women did not want the money, they are for the most part too old and merely wanted recognition for their suffering with an official (sincere) public apology.

If I recall correctly some of the women as well had made it public too that any compensation they received would be donated to charities dealing with issues related to women's rights and such.

Like I have stated before, an apology only goes as far as what actions come afterwards. Kono's apology was a great start, but rewriting textbooks, revising history, and what not, make the apology seem meaningless.

There are too many political games and agendas here on both sides and sadly it all comes down to stupid pride.

A true statesman and a man with leadership would stand up and do whats right, but sadly Abe is neither so chances are slim that anything positive happens on this front.

StrangerlandJun. 24, 2015 - 08:15PM JST

The same case was heard 15 years ago. They should stop filing the same case again and again at foreign courts.

It's more likely that they are likely looking to bring awareness of the Japanese denials and refusal to face up to their past, than actually expecting a payout.

US Courts are maintained by US taxpayers. Korean Ianfu are not entitled to enjoy free publicity at the cost of foreign taxpayers any number of times.

Case Dismissed.

There has already been Multimillions of Dollars worth in Yen paid out to South Korean Women who "allegedly" accused the then "Imperial Japanese Soldiers" of engaging in Forced Prostitution, plus Roads, Schools, and Airports have been built by the Japanese for the South Koreans in order to rebuild their infrastructure after WW2 - Free of charge.

Even through there has been Zero Evidence supporting Forced Prostitution, the numerous apologies per every Prime Minister of Japan were essentially coerced onto the Japanese Government Post WW2 by The U.S. in order to restore the peace and tranquility between the Asian Countries in order to rebuild a once War Torn Asia and to institute a culture of trust between the Asian Countries.

That was The United States vision of Asia Post WW2 until China turned Communism by The Soviet Union along with Mao Zedong's Dark Vision of Post Asia Post WW2 and those perspectives changed the Geopolitical Structure of Asia and ushered in The Korean War.

South Korea has more to appreciate from Post WW2 with Japan and if South Korea respects The United States for all that we have done for them, then they should listen to the U.S. and encourage Guen-Hye Park to find a more beneficial role as President of South Korea by building her Nationalistic Perception as more of someone who is a forward thinker and not someone who consistently hinges her reputation on events that "allegedly" happened in the very distant past.

Again, case dismissed.

The group in S.Korea behind those old women providing administrative support are under North Korean influence. There are heavy influence of N.Korea quite effective all over South Korea and its news media, legal system and government administration.

Their purpose is to break US-S.Korea-Japan band against N.Korea. These old women are simply used for that political purpose, and the administrators are playing the propaganda music so successfully to destroy S.Korea.

If the survivers say it's true, then it sounds like it's true.

These elderly women DO NOT WANT $$$, they simply want Japan to ADMIT what it DID!

Did the part about them wanting 20 million completely blow past you? That's by AFP too, a source I definitely do not consider neutral when it comes to anything that can be linked to so called "right wing" Japanese. Of course, some apologists will insist they are going to donate it. Maybe, but they hadn't yet, and if money is not the point, I suggest going for one of those $1 lawsuits.

Why the hell cant Japan just admit what it did!

So, what should Japan admit to. 20,000 or 200,000, or something in between. Then is it sex slavery, or prostitution or something in between. After the disaster that was Kono, a smart Japanese will want that clarified before even thinking about an apology.

But Japan as a country has responsibility.

I must wonder. What is a country but a collective of individuals? And since if these women ever get money it'll be indirectly but ultimately out of the pockets of "individual" Japanese, to say a country is responsible is ultimately asking individuals, which by your admission are not responsible, to suffer. There are no two ways around it and perhaps we can at least be intellectually honest about it.

The minority, not the majority.

IIRC, a minority were clearly self-contradictory - they self-destructed even in the eyes of their sympathizers. This is actually a bigger problem than their sympathizers want to admit, because with 50 years of preparation, they should all have been giving perfect deliveries. If I give you 50 years to practice a lie, am I overly demanding to expect you to remember the main points? I don't think so. But lie or truth, some of these oldies are still blowing up. This should make any reasonably neutral person wonder whether any of them are telling the truth.

So you would place blame on the sellers of children, but not on the buyers? And you don't see a discrepancy there?

The point is that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It's more likely that they are likely looking to bring awareness of the Japanese denials and refusal to face up to their past, than actually expecting a payout.

This actually makes it even worse. Now it is pure harassment and exploitation of the court for propaganda.

And people wonder why we get the label, "World police". Its not like we want it, but we have things like this happen. Didn't happen in US territory, and didn't happen in California. Just an abuse of the US legal system.

Nicholas TeeJun. 25, 2015 - 06:55AM JST

I suspect that these ladies are not receiving the best legal advice.

US Supreme Court has already dismissed the claim by Korean former ianfu against Government of Japan in Hwang Geum Joo et al. v. Japan of 2006.

http://www.internationalcrimesdatabase.org/Case/775/Hwang-Geum-Joo-v-Japan/

They sure are not receiving the best legal advice.

@TokiaJUN. 26, 2015 - 12:36AM JST Do all the survivors believe that they were all forced into sexual slavery by only Japanese army?

They were. Haven't you read Japan created system and returned soldiers had interviews to let people know the condition of shacks and how soldiers lined up to get service?

But why this was not a issue for South Korea for almost three decades from 1966 to early 1990's when most of these survivors were still alive? If the issue of comfort women was so important to them, don't you think the South Korean government would've acted much sooner and brought attention to Japan? Point is, South Korean government couldn't care less about these women for a long time, as long as Japanese government paid their millions. The fault also lies on the South Korean government, and Park should acknowledge this.

It is out of the jurisdiction of the American courts.

Not necessarily. There are dozens of civil cases where American courts recognise their universal jurisdiction where human rights abuses have taken place around the world. The most spectacular of these was probably Radovan Karadzic being successfully sued for $4.5 billion even though he committed all of the the abuses in Yugoslavia against foreign citizens who had no connection to the US.

Just wait a few more years and they will all be dead and so will their lawsuit

Good luck to the Sex Slaves - sorry!

Comfortable women!

the old women maybe dont even know how to use smartphone, even more the hassle of sueing etc.. seems like exploitation by the children n grandchildrens who wants 'kaching'.

these just opens up old wounds to the poor old ladies.

Quite frankly, in a legalistic perspective, it'll be easier to sue these women for some suitable form of harassment. They are causing Clear and Present Harm, not some past wrong.

It is difficult to see how a court could take this case seriously anyway. If we really play this fair, the woman will have to start by proving she had sex, that the sex was unvoluntary ... etc. Good luck doing that in an objective way (as opposed to trying to move a gullible jury with tears) for anything over 50 years after the alleged fact.

You know even in Japan there are plenty of high school age kids that have no idea that Japan was in a war, the ask who the enemy was, and when they hear it was the US they are flabbergasted and can not believe it happened.

The money is inconsequential here, the press (hopefully) will bring awareness on (hopefully) both sides of the Pacific. But I doubt the mainstream press will give this much coverage here until it gets to the decision stage.

If it gets tossed out of court, maybe the press will cover it, otherwise done expect much in the news.

This is more symbolic then realistic. It'll never pass US Congress or Senate unless US government is willing to compensate every single African American citizen that will sue US for forcing their ancestor into slavery and experiencing racial prejudice thereafter. Good luck to that.

Victims of any atrocity can seek justice anyplace,for the legal justice system IS NOT and CANNOT be taken as the final arbiter . All of us know a few murderers, thugs e.t.c. who are walked away cause of one reason or another but mostly due to limitations in the legal systems. I guess also what most people don't take into account, are the intangibles , like loss of dignity, reallly intrinsic things money can't buy.

It is out of the jurisdiction of the American courts.

That is for California courts to decide.

Suing for money isn't really the right way going about it, I guess. It may be perceived as being "only about the money", and will tarnish the noble cause for seeking justice for the women who suffered from Japan's sexual slavery.

Yet another attempt by Koreans to finagle money from Japan despite all the monies paid by the latter in the past.

Same kimchi, different day.

Wikipedia is not credible. It is good, but anyone can change things there. I have seen numerous mistakes with medical terms etc.

There is still no proof that these women were coerced, as it was war and war brings countless problems for survival.

There are numerous sites showing each and every apology by former prime minsters, and that includes several for more than once.

Treaty was signed and compensation paid. You can't keep back tracking

This will never end.

There are many "patriotic groups" in China and S Korea that depend on bad relations with Japan to get funds. Real peace with Japan would mean that they are all out of a job and would have to get real jobs. These groups also influence some Japanese to support Japanese rghtist groups (the ones in the trucks running around Tokyo and other cities).

This is not the USA meddling. Read the Article. It is a small group of Korean ladies that "plan" to bring the issue up in a U.S. court. Now, the question after that is, if the U.S. Court feels it can rule on the issue. If they do feel its within their boundaries they yes... it would be meddling.

Park knows that her father took the compensation money from Japan and used it for other purposes. Perhaps she even inherited some part of it. So instead of demanding Japan make reparations she should dip into her own pockets and pay back the money her father stole.

Some other courts in some other states may work for them but their private attorney services are not as idle as some attorneys in some places in Calif. But there is Federal Court for Calif that handles cases that related to out of Calif defendants. I wonder why their attorney had to use one of many California District courts instead. Are Korean community in Calif supporting this lawsuit?

Do you understand why the Japanese government set up a "private" fund? If it was done through the government it would have given the issue official status

Yubaru, that is what I said. The treaty barred the government from doing anything official. Thus, the private fund. But you are right about history. We were not required to take history in high school. It was an elective course. But the teacher used "supplementary materials" he made where the text was not explicit enough. I still remember some of the graphic pictures. Also, last August, the Nikkei published a report saying that of the almost 80% of young Americans (25 and less) that know atomic bombs have been used, 70% thought they were used on Korea. So everyone is forgetting the war. Should Iran sue Greece for the suffering caused in the Persian war?

For those who think Japan apologized and did everything what they could do.

First of all, Comfort women "were forced into" sexual slavery by the Imperial Japanese Army. Some insane japanese politicians and people argued that they didn't do it forcefully and the women are kind of prostitutes. If you think like that, check out the Wikipedia on Google ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women ) so Japanese goverment should admit the fact.

Secondly, Japanese people talk about 韓日協定 (1965). This issue had never been addressed in the course of negociating in 1965. The money that Japanese government gave Korean government was not compensation according to the japanese government in 1965. They said it is for 'economical cooperations between korea and japan' but few years later they changed the words like "That was compensation." In addition, the money has never gone to the comfort women at all. Their lives got shattered and crashed by the time but they never got anything from anyone. Imagine that they were your grandmother.

Finally, Korean prosperity and economical growth for the last 60 years is not by the money the japanese government gave, but by those who have worked so hard and korean governments. Japan exploit korean labor and economy much more than the amount of the money during the colonial era for 35 years(1910 - 1945)

Japan is one of the powerful developed countries in the world. And japanese are so kind indivisually. But none of my japanese friends even knew about the colonial era and the fact that Japan colonialized Korea. I don't think it's all japanese's problem but government's problem. They don't educate japanese properly.

US Courts are maintained by US taxpayers. Korean Ianfu are not entitled to enjoy free publicity at the cost of foreign taxpayers any number of times.

Seeing as they have begun another lawsuit, it would appear you are wrong.

@M3M3M3 "There are dozens of civil cases where American courts recognise their universal jurisdiction where human rights abuses have taken place around the world "

Nonsense. Seems that judges were plain illiterate.

@genjuro "Same kimchi, different day"

Exactly.

This will never end.

Until Japan properly addresses the issue.............absolutely

@sandhonour

It's the not the old women, it's the groups who are exploiting them for political reasons.

Yes, they have been increasing memberships, for which members pay, by telling relatives that they can get compensation too.

The only way out of this ... Japan must Pay , The British on the death march only got £1030 fifteen years ago ..

There is still no proof that these women were coerced,

Perhaps we can ask some IJA survivors what they did with it. I think you'll find it was burned.

There are numerous sites showing each and every apology by former prime minsters, and that includes several for more than once.

There are numerous sites showing each and every denial by Japanese politicians, and that includes several for more than once. Treaty was signed. Blood money was paid. The apology-denial cycle began...

Do all the survivors believe that they were all forced into sexual slavery by only Japanese army?

I believe it will end before it get started. Remember the US Supreme Court already placed a decision before which would be the baseline for future cases. If the SK plaintiff is not able to produce new evidence then the court would most likely dismiss the case before it get started.

The smart thing would be to use the old women to fight against the abuse of young women and human trafficking today. In that way they would be seen a noble and heroic.

It's unfair to hurt and exploit the old women to raise up their hopes only for them to be dashed in this way.

The problem is, some of the groups behind these old women raise funds by selling memberships falsely on the grounds that even family members are eligible to claim compensation.

I suspect that these ladies are not receiving the best legal advice. If they were, there are attorneys in the US that would be turning this into a class action and would likely be doing it on 100% contingency. In otherwords there would be providing their services at no cost, and would be hunting down others in a similar situation to represent - and the amount would not be $20m, it would be in the billions of dollars. If cigarette smokers could get a settlement of $2bn from the cigarette manufacturers, this case could get far more. And they should be linking the claim to other parties like the Japanese military. And with the right attorneys, they could bring all manner of political pressure to bear on the Japanese government. I hope they do.

Why use the US legal court system?

We all know the US pulls the strings in Japan. Makes sense

These elderly women DO NOT WANT $$$, they simply want Japan to ADMIT what it DID!

Why the hell cant Japan just admit what it did!

Just imagine the Japanese women who were sex slaves! They are perhaps even worse off than these Korean women!!

@Strangerland

We've discussed this before. Please develop your understanding. The individuals who bought the comfort woman Kim Hak-sun when her parents sold her were both Koreans (twice).

Why not use the South Korean legal court system?

A bunch of former forced laborers sued Mitsubishi and won in the lower courts. That caused another diplomatic fight with Japan. But the higher South Korean courts over ruled on appeal, and shot down the former laborers. I doubt the women will win in the US either. But it will bring wider attention to their plight.

It may be perceived as being "only about the money"

There are 50 Comfort women left in South Korea, and they have donated much of their money to victims and children of wars around the world. They have also set up donations, scholarships, and have left all their wealths to charities. This isn't about the money, as they are already taken care of by the South Korean government.

The same case was heard 15 years ago. They should stop filing the same case again and again at foreign courts.

It's more likely that they are likely looking to bring awareness of the Japanese denials and refusal to face up to their past, than actually expecting a payout.

If cigarette smokers could get a settlement of $2bn from the cigarette manufacturers, this case could get far more.

I suspect you are right. $20m is just peanuts. $2 billion is more like it. If they had won that, that's a large amount of money going to charity transferred from the pockets of Japanese companies or government, to a lot of people around the world who need help.

South Korea is pushing Japan further away from them by this.

Correct.

What we should want is the Korean groups to admit what Korean did in the war time sex industry, to stop making exaggerated claims and running a hate campaign targeting today's Japanese who have no responsibility for the past whatsoever.

What you need to do is look at the intentions of the groups exploiting these old women, not the women themselves. They are just a front.

Like the original comfort woman to come forward, Kim Hak-sun. Instead of accusing Japan, she should have accused a Korean society which allow parents to sell daughters to brothels.

You also need to factor in that even the groups exploiting have to dismiss the majority of cases for being unreliable.

As smithinjapan states this is more about getting attention and getting a sincere apology then anything else. At 80s+ these ladies have nothing to lose. This will continue while Abe and his cronies oh and ah about what role Japan played in the war and textbooks don't teach the truth.

yelnats: "tear up all the deeply remorseful letters of apologies by every single PM since the end of the war"

You're on a roll today, aren't you? Tell us which PMs have been deeply remorseful? The Murayama apology and the Kono statement are the two most noteworthy examples of PMs that have seemed genuinely remorseful, but please do show us ONE officially recognized, by the DIET, apology, please... and then give us the names and dates of when EVERY PM, as you said, deeply apologized to the sex slaves -- oh wait, the don't even call them what they were.

YuriOtani: "It is out of the jurisdiction of the American courts."

To make Tokyo pay, yes, but it can apply added pressure, and also the courts could feasibly make certain companies with branches in the US pay. In any case, it is simply political. The Japanese government refuses to officially apologize, and in fact calls them ungrateful prostitutes if they even admit sex slaves existed, and they certainly won't listen with Korean courts or allow suits to go through in Japan, so this increases the pressure and the presence of the issue. I don't believe they should receive more compensation IF they get a personal apology, on the record and recognized by the government, from Abe. Until then, this draws more attention to their plight -- seen as petty only by right-wing denialists -- and negative attention to the current government's stance on the issue in Japan.

So, all the power to them until they get a proper apology at the very least.