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Shionogi says its COVID pill under development effective against Omicron

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Sounds far better than the US made vaccines that cannot prevent infection after two doses.

-13 ( +16 / -29 )

Sounds far better than the US made vaccines that cannot prevent infection after two doses.

Not a zero-sum game mate. They both can be good, after all, one is preventative and one is reactive. Kind of like exercise vs. liposuction.

1 ( +17 / -16 )

excellent、Shionogi

5 ( +11 / -6 )

But, according to the news this medicine has to be taken within 5 days of the patient becoming infected for it to be effective. Here in Japan, with no testing and many clinics and hospitals refusing to see patients until they have clear symptoms, it will be a useless medicine! Japan's reluctance to test is going to come back and bite them!

20 ( +27 / -7 )

A 3CLpro inhibitor like the Paxlovid, and without the silly ritonavir addon.

No differences in omicron in the proteases it encodes or uses, so it absolutely should work.

If omicron even needs treatment though, it looks rather mild so far. Any delta remnants do definitely need treatment

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Sounds far better than the US made vaccines that cannot prevent infection after two doses.

It may not, at least until clinical trials demonstrate actual efficacy. Also, no vaccine ever made can guarantee it can prevent infection, much less against variants different from the strain it was made for, reduction of the infection rates in this situation is a great bonus from the actual purpose of vaccines.

-1 ( +11 / -12 )

no vaccine ever made can guarantee it can prevent infection, much less against variants different from the strain it was made for

Adding multiple conserved antigens, and delivering via airway mucosa like the infection, should make vaccines much more infection-preventative and mutation-resistant. Immunity has location-awareness, and airway mucosa is wildly guarded, likely resulting in a longer-evolving and broader response

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Adding multiple conserved antigens, and delivering via airway mucosa like the infection, should make vaccines much more infection-preventative and mutation-resistant

"Should" is a word used very frequently when actual results do not coincide with theory. There are many different vaccine candidates (not only for COVID) trying this approach, and they have been developed for many years, up until now only limited numbers have been successfully transitioned to use in the public. For respiratory diseases only suboptimal vaccines have been produced (with injectables being much more effective), it is good that people want to develop one for COVID, but realistically speaking they are still far behind what is already available.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Meyou:

Sounds far better than the US made vaccines that cannot prevent infection after two doses.

Let me give you a free educational moment: No vaccine, for any disease, can prevent infection. They are not virus entry blockers, but teach your body how to fight infection once it's got it. Thank me later, read a book from time to time.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

.....has to be taken within 5 days of the patient becoming infected for it to be effective. Here in Japan, with no testing and many clinics and hospitals refusing to see patients.

Nah just go to the pharmacy, get some and when got cold symptoms just take it. It won't kill you if you don't have Covid, so who cares? Time to treat Covid like the common cold it is becoming.

And to those who are celebrating the new vaccine passport: sure, can get to 78 countries, but good luck using it to stay in a hotel, go to a restaurant, gym or anything else . Reaction will be: are you a nut?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

By the time these guys are done developing, the pandemic will be over. LOL

5 ( +8 / -3 )

This is what should be supported, not vaccines!

Thank you, Japan!

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

This is what should be supported, not vaccines!

Based on what? how much profit can be obtained? Prevention always works better than treatment, specially because there is nothing preventing both things to be supported so you can have vaccines that let people avoid getting the disease in the first place and drugs that help treating those that still got it.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

@virusres

Based on the fact it actually works, as in curing the disease.

Vaccines neither prevent infection nor spread, I really wonder why we take them in the first place. Never mind that they are proposing yearly shot.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

I remember a month ago, a headline said Japan was going to pass all g7 countries with vaccinations. Still hasn't happened Canada is still ahead.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It sounds like a great thing but in the end it will be like the vaccine: "This pill is our way out of this mess" then a few months later " oh my goodness, the pill is not as effective as we thought it will be so you will have to keep wearing a mask, social distance and give up your freedoms" rinse and repeat. I don't trust anyone anymore.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Virusrex

Problem is that the leaky vaccines aren’t so effective at preventing infection or transmission.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

But who can use this with how difficult and expensive testing is in Japan. You’d be lucky to get a test within 2 weeks of symptom onset, impossible to get tested and then get confirmed within 5 days. Wait time for tests can lasts up to a month if you dont want to pay 100% out of pocket

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A 3CLpro inhibitor like the Paxlovid, and without the silly ritonavir addon.

No differences in omicron in the proteases it encodes or uses, so it absolutely should work.

Oh, so it also has some similarities with IVM!

Problem is that the leaky vaccines aren’t so effective at preventing infection or transmission.

Yeah, especially these monovalent mRNA vaccines, which just end up encouraging the appearance of new variants with mutated spike proteins.

Adding multiple conserved antigens, and delivering via airway mucosa like the infection, should make vaccines much more infection-preventative and mutation-resistant. Immunity has location-awareness, and airway mucosa is wildly guarded, likely resulting in a longer-evolving and broader response

Yes, very well said. If Omicron is really as mild as the South Africans say it is, it might end up being an ideal live attenuated vaccine.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

MarkXToday  07:44 am JST

But, according to the news this medicine has to be taken within 5 days of the patient becoming infected for it to be effective. Here in Japan, with no testing and many clinics and hospitals refusing to see patients until they have clear symptoms, it will be a useless medicine! Japan's reluctance to test is going to come back and bite them!

That is not true! When my wife developed a fever, she phoned a local hospital at 8:15 PM and they made an appointment for 8:30 PM to have a PCR test. We went there by car, once we arrived a nurse came out in full protective gear and took a sample while we were still in the car and 18 minutes later phoned her mobile to give the result of the test. Luckily, it was negative. Then they made arrangements to see a doctor a blood test was done and medicine for a cold prescribed. We were back home by 9:40 PM. Very quick and efficient! I give them a 10/10 score!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

little light at the end of tunnel.

sure big news if will come to production and will prove its effectiveness.

than travel abroad can be eased as in case of infication by virus tablets may be ready in pocket and solve problem in few days as same as if you get cold or flu.

some kind of experimental vaccines with many side effects and effectiveless against cvid will be music of the past.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Man, the anti-vax crowd really warmed up to Big Pharma QUICK!

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Tora, this is a prescription medicine, so you just can't go to the pharmacy and buy it like Tylenol Cold medicine.

Paul, I guess your wife got lucky, but you must admit all the news is stating how difficult it is to get tested and places will turn you away unless you can show close contact with a case, which is really hard to do. I'm happy she was negative, but that seems to be a rare case, not the norm!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I never imagined that they would start making us take vaccines in order to protect us from the common cold. Before 2020, it was personal responsibility to wear a mask, wash hands, keep the immune system strong, eat a healthy diet and get exercise. Now, whats the point of doing any of the other stuff?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Based on the fact it actually works, as in curing the disease.

Show the data then, because that is something not even shionogi have yet, which means your comment is baseless, preventing a disease is always better than curing it. And it is cheaper as well.

Problem is that the leaky vaccines aren’t so effective at preventing infection or transmission.

And a drug that only acts after infection prevent is exactly how? making the patient travel in time to the past? Vaccines are still a great help preventing infection and transmission thanks to the immunity they produce, any treatment (by definition) is worse because of the fact that they only act after infection happened.

Oh, so it also has some similarities with IVM!

No, trying to shoehorn ivermectin into the actual mechanisms of action of antivirals is not valid, anything can "inhibit" enzymes when used in toxic concentrations, that do not make any drug an anti-everything. Much less ivermectin that until now have not demonstrated any actual activity at physiological concentrations in patients.

Yeah, especially these monovalent mRNA vaccines, which just end up encouraging the appearance of new variants with mutated spike proteins.

No, that is completely false, you keep repeating this false claim but it has very simple to prove the complete opposite, variants have appeared in populations with low vaccination rates, which by itself is enough to prove vaccines do not encourage variants (else they would actually appear in the populations with the highest vaccination rates).

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/vaccines-will-not-produce-worse-variants

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccines-do-not-cause-new-sars-cov-2-variants

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/07/did-covid-19-vaccines-cause-coronavirus-delta-variants-no-evidence-behind-such-claims/?sh=1586ed2b281d

Yes, very well said. If Omicron is really as mild as the South Africans say it is, it might end up being an ideal live attenuated vaccine.

The same South Africans that strongly recommend vaccinations, including with mRNA vaccines? if you recognize the professionals as a trust worthy source of information that means you also trust them when they say your beliefs are completely wrong.

I never imagined that they would start making us take vaccines in order to protect us from the common cold. 

"They" don't, the vaccines act preventing a much more dangerous disease that produce much more health problems and deaths than the common cold, Not driving after drinking was also a "personal responsibility" a long time ago, do you feel then it is bad to make seat belts obligatory?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

anything can "inhibit" enzymes when used in toxic concentrations

Local spray with a gelling ingredient should give an effective 3CLpro-inhibiting concentration at airway mucosa, with very little systemic penetration.

I think one IVM study actually used this approach.

Computationally/in vitro IVM seems to have other synergistic mechanisms. I wish it had received one or two proper trials instead of tons of junk, mostly unfunded trials.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Maybe that would be good news for some?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Curing the common cold sounds noble enough. In the meantime, get lost.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Show the data then, because that is something not even shionogi have yet, which means your comment is baseless, preventing a disease is always better than curing it. And it is cheaper as well.

Speaking of getting lost . And being lost in general.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

So any factual comment in response to Vrusrex that contradicts his extreme views is removed. I thought we had moved on from that a few months go on JT, disappointing.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

“Very timely. Lock the door after the thief has gone.”

if you don’t need it someone might. How selfish.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Local spray with a gelling ingredient should give an effective 3CLpro-inhibiting concentration at airway mucosa, with very little systemic penetration.

At levels enough for actual clinical significance? quite difficult, not only because of the obviously only local effect, but because the concentrations deemed necessary for significant virucidal effect in vitro. Publication bias is more likely to be the cause of the lack of trials being available instead of just nobody thinking about it.

Speaking of getting lost . And being lost in general.

You can ask if you could not understand something. Or if you have the clinical data necessary to prove this share it with the company and save them from the cost of the trials.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

With so very few cases in Japan, exactly how are they testing this drug? Surely overseas? Personally, I care little for whether it's a vaccine or a therapeutic drug: as long as it helps, fill me up. Besides, Japanese doctor's close relationship with pharmaceutical companies, and the cash they both rake in, has so many people in Japan loaded with drugs: nothing new here but another drug to add to your colourful prescriptions.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Suretto

I think one IVM study actually used this approach.

Ivermectin nasal spray against COVID? the only thing I could find was in pigs, and not even using any virus. I think 6 months without any further results means it was not useful.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

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