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Stringent tests planned to map radiation spread after hotspot found in Setagaya

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It's of grave concern...thorough investigation covering Kanto, Kansai and Kyushu (3K) must be carried out soon.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

He said rainwater containing radioactive particles had been dripping from the roof of a building by the sidewalk.

And I'm sure the radioactive rainwater only fell there....

5 ( +6 / -2 )

NHK News says the number happens to be much higher than the current air radiation in Iitate-mura (2.1 microsieverts/hour at the village office) in Fukushima Prefecture, where all the villagers have had to evacuate.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

WT...........................

3 ( +4 / -1 )

In Hiroshima two mothers were discovered to have small amounts of radiation in their breast milk probably from eating contaminated foods.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Those poor folks who evacuated to Setagaya to escape the radiation in the north!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

For heavens sake! I am sick of this! The food is safe to eat is it? Safe enough for 10,000 free flights to Japan to get tourists to visit? Safe enough for children in Tokyo? Fukushima, Tokyo, its all fine. No health risks? Anyone who says so is slandering and hurting Japan?

The truth is, for all the spin, for all the foreign governments saying "Japan is safe, its safe to travel even to Fukushima", there are facts like this that cant be hidden or ignored.

Im sick of this. When will big business and governments put people before money? Never.

If you haven't left Tokyo, it really is getting to be time to leave.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

He said rainwater containing radioactive particles had been dripping from the roof of a building by the sidewalk.

The radiation is on the move. Wind and rain is spreading it around like a living organism.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Why are some posters acting as though this comes as a 'surprise'? It was and will be so, there are numerous hotspots in and around the Tokyo area, for sure. Kanagawa, Yamanishi, Shizuoka... Yesterday a private citizen in Yokohama through using a private company had Strot-90 found above the norm on their mansion's roof. Be vigilant, take care. Know that it's here, there, everywhere.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

We have to accept the fact that lots of areas of East Japan (or more) are somewhat affected. The important thing is that we get accurate information with scientific figures, like how dangerous 2.7 microSv/hr is. (you know sometimes scientists say like "your chance of getting cancer increases 0.000007%")

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This is not a surprise. The only thing that is surprising is that Japanese people are still shocked that their government would lie to them or downplay the severity of the situation in order to maintain the status quo.

Step away from your own views for a second. Imagine how the Japanese citizens must feel. They've always strived for harmony in every part of daily life. Even biting their tongues for the sake of it.

Unbeknownst to them is that this harmony is really the upper class controlling the lower class. Best brainwashing I've ever seen.

Morpheus said it best: "You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

This is the harmony they cherish so much.

Now Japan's government, the deep pockets, those who love power face their greatest challenge yet. 3/11, an event that shook not only the country, but has shattered this facade of harmony. We are not on the same team. They are not reporting the radiation levels. They are lying through their teeth.

We are not surprised by this but most Japanese people are. It's not the radiation, it's the fact that this society is willing to sacrifice / amputate and watch part of it nation die and tell them that everything is alright while they do it.

Sorry to tell you this but the water is boiling and we are already half-done.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Lie to us some more...hotspot my foot...something tells me this is everywhere.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

"concerned parents monitoring for radiation". ---At last the right kind of people to tell us what is what.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Over at Enenews.com they are saying that "2.7" was the number AFTER decontamination. The number that was initially found was reportedly 4.7 microsieverts per hour. Hope it isn't true!

http://enenews.com/4-7-microsievertshour-in-tokyo-between-kindergarten-and-nursery-school-measured-5-feet-above-pavement-photo

2 ( +4 / -2 )

They put orange and white cones around it. Now I feel safe.

My Geiger Counter ships in three days. That is good news. 3 months ahead of schedule, and made in America.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

How many more hotspots remain undetected and how long has the hot spot in Setagaya Ward been cotaminated?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The only hotspot I'd want to hear is a wifi one. And free at that.

Anyway, I think it's almost imperative that every household should have a geiger counter for their own sake. Anyone know if Yodobashi or Bic Camera carries a decent one?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Good post net ninja.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The radioactive elements are over the place, and you can bet the J-gov't is doing everything it can to mislead you.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

genjuro.

No, I think you need to be certified to deal in those as like many other tools they need to be calibrated(by experts), etc and thus normally aren't cheap nor fast-moving.

FYI, to calibrate them you will need to own some radiaoctive material designed for calibrating, etc.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

How many more hotspots remain undetected and how long has the hot spot in Setagaya Ward been cotaminated?

Probably a lot, I am sure, and this one probably for 7 months. There's so many places small deposits can be, how can anyone find them all?

I don't think anyone, and especially Japanese people, are surprised by this. Why do people say they are?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Look some of us have been alluding to this for months now. The government takes air radiation samples from helicopters!! This is the tip of the iceberg.As I wrote the other day, 51,000 Bq / metre of combined cesium in the soil (yes,count that again) in Shinjuku ward.This was from tests conducted by the government of Tokyo itself. Tokyo has been inundated with cesium and Iodine isotopes since July at least.They have been burning radioactive sludge and it was suggested that a lot of the isotopes were 'disappearing' in the combustion process.Isotopes don't just disappear.Some of this could be a byproduct of the burning of sludge...wait til they really start burning all that debris. A lot of this is probably cesium that stuck to buildings and was dislodged by the typhoons and has become concentrated. Oh and as I said yesterday, they found Strontium in Yokohama...you know, the heavy stuff that isn't supposed to be even 70km away from the plant? Guess what.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Like lobsters in a pot on a slow slow boil..........

As I said in a previous post that I have a get out plan and that is still in effect.

All those who don't should consider one too

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Time to start packing, wouldn't you say?

1 ( +5 / -3 )

What's needs to be decontaminated is Neutron Radiation together with protons it make up 99% of an atoms composition be it isotopes or gamma radiation etc.

The decontamination process is going to be really tricky I think. Because the neutron radiation is deep penetrating and in some cases it can reactivate itself.

Excerpt: In health physics neutron radiation is considered a fourth radiation hazard alongside the other types of radiation. Another, sometimes more severe hazard of neutron radiation, is neutron activation, the ability of neutron radiation to induce radioactivity in most substances it encounters, including the body tissues of the workers themselves. This occurs through the capture of neutrons by atomic nuclei, which are transformed to another nuclide, frequently a radionuclide. This process accounts for much of the radioactive material released by the detonation of a nuclear weapon. It is also a problem in nuclear fission and nuclear fusion installations, as it gradually renders the equipment radioactive; eventually the hardware must be replaced and disposed of as low-level radioactive waste

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well, if there's any positive spin to this it's that now that a posh district of Tokyo has been affected the government might finally start taking things with the degree of severity they should have from the start.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

genjuro:

Anyway, I think it's almost imperative that every household should have a geiger counter for their own sake. Anyone know if Yodobashi or Bic Camera carries a decent one?

That's what I was thinking, since I actually live in one of these hotspots. Some concerned soul did a survey with a counter and drove round my town. Readings varied from 0.2 to, briefly, 0.5 microsevierts/hr. It was 0.7 the first day it rained after the earthquake. Should the authorities or some company mass produce the counters so that citizens can buy them at an affordable price? I see the cheapest ones on Amazon at around 20,000 yen, going up to 50,000 yen. Most are made in China and Russia.

YongYang:

Why are some posters acting as though this comes as a 'surprise'?

I think this is a surprise, not because there was a hotspot, but because of the reading, 2.7.

Japangyaru:

My Geiger Counter ships in three days

How much did yours cost?

Darren B:

I've seen those maps on MEXT's homepage. Do you know whether they intend to do the same for Shizuoka? Not that I live there, but I'd be interested to see the readings considering that Shizuoka tea and mushrooms were contaminated.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Genjuro.

Also forgot those Geiger-counters need to be re-calibrated after certain usage times, etc.

Wouldn't trust any that didn't come with a certificate of calibration and outlines new re-calibration guidelines as well as strict usage rules.

Friend nearly blew his car engine after a rebuild as his torque-wrench went out of calibration.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Officials said Wednesday that an estimated annual exposure at the spot would not pose a health danger. They said the area has been closed off and city officials will also survey nearly 260 parks.

If the "estimated annual exposure at the spot wouldn't pose a health danger", then why has "the area has been closed off"?!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

To get the "Big" picture globally see: http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php

RSOE EDIS Event Report

HAZMAT: Event date: 12.10.2011 13:22:28 Country: Japan State: Tokyo Prefecture Location:Setagaya ] Damage level:Minor

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Relative to what is normal for the Tokyo area, 2.7 is quite a high reading, but actually compared to many other parts of the world including Canada, the US and the UK, it is not so high at all.

BUT - what concerns me is not so much the level of the reading but what is causing it. While background levels may be the same or even higher in other parts of the world, they are not caused by a lot of the nasties that are floating around here.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Pukey2 they are still selling contaminated tea from Shizuoka,mate.Just like they are selling contaminated chestnuts and mushrooms and feeding them to kindergartners.As long as the food is under 500 Bq/kg (this will soon be raised) then it is legal to sell food that is even 499 Bq/kg. A lot of companies are 'watering down' their Bq count by blending teas and rice with that of Western Japan. A lot of food is made in Tokyo using ground water and tap water...curry and noodles and chocolate..beer..the companies are not really required to test their produce for radioactive isotopes, although a few have begun to do so.Even so, they are then not required to tell the consumers HOW MANY Bq of Cesium or Iodine are in the food.It could be 1bq or it could be 499 Bq.

the #ngfood hashes on twitter have great info.

so yes, 175 Bq is 'safe' in Shizuoka tea. Whether you or I think so is irrevelant. I have heart disease so Cesium is not cool at any Bq for me. http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/10/radiation-in-japan-shizuoka-tea.html

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Here we go

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I hate to even think about having to get radiation Geiger counters but I am all ready asking my relatives and friends back in the USA to send them to me ASAP!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

so apparently, the hotspot was reported by a resident and the officials found it to be in the vicinity of 2.8 and so began using power hoses to rinse down the asphalt and concrete (which doesn't really work) and this lowered the reading to around 2.7. The anomaly is, the reading is reportedly higher above the ground than the ground itself.The officials are trying to work out the source of the high reading.Most likely the pavement will have to be removed.Apparently all the schools in the area were tested as recently as August.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The wind has shifted from south to northerly, and will remain so till next spring. Meanwhile Hokkaido (-20 ' C in winter) is the place to raise your kids.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The area hasn't been closed off, it has parking cones around it. Probably as a result of locals raising concern. Of course, it won't stop anything, the question is, is it harmful? I know many people believe any radiation is bad, but here is some resource that may help people understand the effects of radiation. It is a presentation by a Professor at Oxford, given to the FCCJ recently.

http://www.radiationandreason.com/uploads/FCCJ_ALLISON_100311_FINAL.pdf

I doubt if it will convince some die hards that things aren't as bad as the hype in media suggests (this story was lead on most TV channels), but please view it just to see that there are alternate opinions.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If the "estimated annual exposure at the spot wouldn't pose a health danger", then why has "the area has been closed off"?!

For decontamination and for people to know where the area is.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

News this morning said it was an area 7m by 1m(major big one).

Reason why it is news is that there are 3 parks close-by as well as kids use that stretch for visiting the local primary school. Crossing the road won't even give you a greater exposure.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Some years ago something similar (high radiation observed) happened in Berlin. Apparently it was connected to checking water supply pipes with isotopes or something like that.

Strange that radiation is higher above the ground - hope they can pinpoint the cause no matter that most natural thinking links it to Fukushima!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

bogva, I don't think anyone thinks it's NOT linked to Fukushima, what they will be trying to pinpoint is why that particular area has higher levels of radiation than the areas around it- something I would also be interested to know, since I live about 5 km from this hotspot.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

gyouza - thank you for the link, I found it very interesting actually.

But to be honest - for every expert claiming that there is no risk, there is another claiming that the measures taken so far are grossly inadequate. And this is what many of us are struggling with - even the experts themselves cant agree!

Also, within his presentation there were a few "holes" that made me question some of their data. For example, they provided stats on "solid cancers" of atomic bomb victims - but that suggests that they left out data from cancers such as leukaemia, lymphomas and other "non-solid" tumours, but which have previously been linked to radiation.

Secondly, whilst they provided data about Chernobyl and Hiroshima/Nagasaki cancer rates, there was no comparison to the general population which makes the data hard to put in context. These and a few other things left me with more questions than answers, but - still nice to read!!! And I didnt know that the isotopes used in PET scans are very similar to those emitted from Fukushima - that is interesting to know for comparison purposes.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Professor Allison is a professor of particle physics and was brought to Japan by the American Chamber of Commerce right before Japan decided to change their safety standards and convince people that it was perfectly safe to live in areas that were previously seen as unsafe. One Oxford professor from a different radiation discipline setting the radiation standard for the Japanese government? The timing is certainly sweet for Tepco.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This shows just how close Japan came to a catostrophic disaster, rather than just a major one. If the wind had been blowing more in the direction of Tokyo when the plants blew up, Japan would have ceased to exist as we know it. Scary thought.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Things are getting more and more Fukushima'd now. Expect the "standards" to rise. Your health is important to us. Please stand by

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hey, im in the US now, so if you guys need a geiger counter let me know. i was expecting to return home to japan this month, but I think im gonna hang out in the west for a bit.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I sense there's a good business opportunity for someone to get started- "rent-a-geiger"

Beware of buying an instrument less than about 40-50,000 yen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No Probs It"s ME . I really looked into it too.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

well there is the fellow in JR Kashiwa who bought that big German survey meter thingy for testing food and soil etc.It isn't a geiger counter but people could test the soil around their homes or the like there for about 1000 yen if they were worried enough to want to know. I think the main necessity is to test sandpits and places where very young kids play, and it sounds as though the Tokyo Met are doing that to some degree.Scraping up the Autumn leaves quickly and incinerating them will be very necessary too.Things like that will have a positive impact.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Lived in Japan 10 years, but I did want my family exposed to radiation...500 meters from my ex house is a hot spot. Maybe someone will check and we might have been in a hot spot. Left Nippon and been to NZ and Australia, everyone comments about Nippon, save face ignore the truth. I have to say it is pleasant not having to worry about radiation daily. 7 Months and still it unrolls, If you can get out and if you have children it would be criminal to stay. There is no blanket checking, mum groups inform the local authorities... ? Who respond with efficiency after several meetings.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Mahiru:

2.7 microSv per hour accumulates to slightly above 20 milliSv per year. However, there are a few things which should be taken into account.

First, You are not at the hotspot all the times. In most places in Setagaya Ward, where people spend most of their time (like clean indoor places), the radiation level will be significantly lower. Thus, You will not automatically get the 20mSv just because there is such a hotspot in Your neighbourhood.

Second, the 20 mSv limit is completely arbitrary. There is no whatsoever biophysical reason for 20 mSv per year. Thus, the difference between slightly under and slightly over 20 mSv is irrelevant. The radiation dose per hour You will get near the hotspot in Setagaya is about 1.5 times the dose per hour I got on my last flight between Japan and Europe. It is no whatsoever problem if You just pass through. If You live there and have this dose all through the year, the issue is different and I would advise daily measurements of the dose to keep track of the levels.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@Utrack:

I (as a nuclear physicist) can tell You that neutron radiation is really, really bad. I want to outline this shortly.

Neutrons at rest (that don't move) decay with radioactive beta decay with an average lifetime of about 15 minutes. If they move with high velocities (have higher energy), then their lifetime will increase due to special relativity. These are called fast (or hot) neutrons.

They scatter mostly on protons, which are the atomic nuclei of hydrogen, which is abundant in water. This is how they lose their energy, which is transferred to the proton, which more often than not breaks out of its chemical bond, going somewhere on its own, creating another trail of havoc on its path.

The lower the energy of a neutron is, the slower it moves, the more scatterings can it do on the same path length and the higher is the scattering probability. These are called slow (or thermal) neutrons. They destroy lots of organic tissue in their wake.

They can be also caught by an atomic nucleus, which can be turned into a radioactive version of its former self. This will in most cases decay through a beta decay, doing further harm to its environment. This effect gradually destroys material components at nuclear facilities.

Neutrons cannot be effectively shielded like gamma rays can. Lead is completely useless. Hydrogen-rich organic molecules (like paraffin or water) provide some shielding. However, as the neutrons get slower, those that are not completely blocked become even more dangerous.

Luckily, neutrons emitters should be very rare in Tokyo. Neutrons are typically emitted in fission reactions that happen mostly in criticalities (as we had in Fukushima in March). There should even in the most severe cases of contamination of Tokyo never, ever be a criticality due to radioactive materials from Fukushima. The amount of very heavy radioisotopes in Tokyo should never, ever reach a level where significant amounts of neutrons are produced.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

But Tokyo is fine, even Fukushima rice is fine, right? Tourists are being given free tickets to visit Japan, to prove how safe it all is. So what is it? Everything is alright, or are hotspots are being found in Tokyo? It is one or the other, because this is most definately not alright.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Okinawa should be looking like a great place to relocate right about now - aside from the US military bases. Personally, I prefer Miyako-jima - slower pace of life.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What is amusing is that Ishihara Junior gave out that big spiel about not allowing citizens to buy and use geiger counters, and yet it was a citizen with a geiger counter who found this hotspot. The government and citizens should be working together like this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

2.7uSv/h an hour?????????????????

The reading was given at 4.699 uSv/h by the citizen's group that conducted it-the government has given the lower reading (a baseless fact?)

Which is it?

From the Twitter feed.......... 昨日の決算委員会で、世田谷区内で放射線数値が高いところがあったことを取り上げての質問の様子。表示しているパネルは、実際の数値の証拠写真です。(4.699マイクロシーベルト/h) 提供:桃野

The link is below.

http://twitter.com/#!/setagaya_tanaka/status/121550478063575041/photo/1

JT editor :please report the correct amount of radiation!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Says here that another hotspot measuring 5.82 microseiverts/hr was found yesterday in Funabashi Andersen park in Funabashi,Chiba by a citizen's group.

また、千葉県船橋市によると、市内の「ふなばしアンデルセン公園」で、市民グループが毎時5・82マイクロシーベルトの放射線量を検出していたことが分かった http://www.47news.jp/CN/201110/CN2011101301000297.html

It seems there are two waste disposal/incinerator sites in Setagaya-Ku. Whether that has any connection or not is anyone's guess.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Just wait until flu season and then you'll see real fear in the populace. That nagging doubt about radiation - was it 500 bcqs you ate for the day or the week - is gonna come back with a vengeance.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

that big spiel about not allowing citizens to buy and use geiger counters

Little kids often think that if they cover their eyes, nobody can see them. This may be the same kind of idea - no geiger, no radiation. Problem solved!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hey brainiacs, if what u all are saying is true, why havent our govt reconmend evacuating japan ?? When i start seeing us troops pulling out, then im out. Good, get out of Japan! Demand for gaijin will go up and so will the pays. Thanks amigos.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I'm far too lazy to remember radiation readings of micro, milli, and regular seiverts, and what is considered dangerous.

So are the findings in Setagaya, Funabashi, etc actually DANGEROUS amounts, or is everyone in arms because they are just higher than normal?

The only thing just as bad as the Japanese government supposedly lying about radiation levels is people exaggerating the danger in radiation levels for the sake of fear mongering. Which one is it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@MrExpatriate:

I can understand why laymen hate to be buggered with measurements and units. This, however, is the truth about the modern society. Normally, it is well hidden and we don't have to be bothered by such things in everyday life, but our technological lifestyle turns most of us into inept kids once something doesn't work according to plan. Wide layers of society are basically illiterate concerning the science and technology that keeps their lives going.

Whether 2.7 or 4.7 or 5.8 microSieverts per hour is dangerous depends on your exposure and your physical constitution. If you're a child or a pregnant woman (or planning a pregnancy in the near future), this dose is far higher than acceptable. If it is just one corner, people can avoid staying there for too long. If it's a few hundred square meters, it can be mostly decontaminated efficiently (costing quite a bit of money). If it is a few square kilometers with such a contamination - then the shit has pretty much hit the fan. Such a large scale decontamination is not simple (in Tokyo probably impossible) and many people will spend most of their daily time in the contaminated area. And even after local decontamination, the radioisotopes will tend to return from nearby still contaminated areas.

If Tokyo does not send a few public workers with geiger counters to do a complete and detailed survey of Setagaya and the neighbouring wards, then they act without responsibility. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide against a proper survey.

Visibility of health consequences of the Fukushima disaster will become cleraly visible in December or January. Watch out for an increase in birth defects.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Nothing to see here, move along folk.

Hmmmm this news of the three high readings (Yokohama, Setagaiya and today Funabashi) does seem a bit alarming.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Johannes WeberO Thank you very much for the information. I live in Kashiwa city, one of the places of hot spots. Our local government sent us e-mail every other day and tell us the radiation level of 5cm and 1m above ground (schools, parks...) The level is usually 0.4 microSv/hr. Some people (like zichi here) have been helping me what this level means. I understand state of Colorado is normally 0.5-0.9 microSv/hr, so 0.4microSv/hr should be nothing to worry, right? But the local government will not be able to collect weed garbage because there is so much of them packed in huge bags and are placed at the clean center, which is already full. Is it still not safe to burn them? Or they are not burning them because some people would freak out? We get scientific figure information, but average people need the interpretation of it. Someone help us, please...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Mahiru..the Nanbu plant in Kashiwa being closed down may have something to do with the garbage collection problems.This explains your problem...the branches and organic waste were making the cesium in the ash too high, so they had to close down Nanbu (the newest and most advanced incinerator) and relay all the waste to the other older incinerator which is less efficient. The only way they can burn waste in Kashiwa and keep the cesium levels low enough to bury the waste is not to include branches and organic matter. Thus..there is a stack of branches and organic waste stockpiling with no way of disposing it. http://financegreenwatch.org/?p=2773 This could also become a problem at other incinerators once the leaves start falling.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If they find many of these hotspots in Tokyo, what will they do about it? Wash it down with a hose? Nothing? Give out 20,000 free tickets for people to visit Japan? Insist the food produced here is safe to eat, and accuse those voicing concerns as being fear monger's?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The birds that have been living in Fukushima for the past 6 months are starting to migrate south and they're dropping their loads right over the snobs in Setagaya.

They'll leave a trail of hotspots all the way to Okinawa.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Boom! Just like I said. Now that it's not just the boonies being affected and instead a posh area of Tokyo they're going to carry out 'extensive testing'.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I have 3 follow up questions:

Who (agency/company) is going to perform these tests? How independent are they? How long will the public have to wait for the results?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Strange that I should come across this article this afternoon....I had been looking for info on radiation colour if it were visible in water only just before going out to lunch...I've been puzzled this past few day on my return to Japan as to why a toilet in the apartment which obviously has not been flushed in a while should leave a pink stain in the bowl same dimensions as where the water settles...I've not been worried about radiation in Yokohama but for some reason having seen isotopes in hospitals it has got me searching for info...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Thank YOU Johannes Weber, I started looking at neutrons because I came across a diagram on the nuclear tourist radiation safety webpage the showed neutron going past lead and right into concrete. This diagram had me looking and trying to understand neutrons and protons in relation to the Daiichi disaster.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Mahiru:

The issue with the waste problem in Kashiwa is the following. The organic matter contains lots of cesium. This is (as far as I know) probably more than in most spots with similar radiation backgrounds in the world. Once this organic matter is burned (almost completely) and compressed to a high density, there is dense matter, where lots of cesium remains. The density of radioisotopes is to high to store it as anything else as highly radioactive waste. And the facilities for that are either not prepared for such a large amount or not ready yet. Thus they have to leave a large volume of mostly burned matter, where the density of cesium is lower. Thus, they can still declare it as moderately contaminated waste and store it without need of particular facilities.

Cesium is a rather heavy metal and it reacts strongly with water (or with every non-metallic substance). Thus, if this matter in the waste processing plant contains water, this water will turn into steam carrying cesium in tiny water droplets. This mechanism is the reason why after the typhoons of last month we got slightly increased radiation readings in most places. The rain water washed through the hotspots, picking up cesium, which was later contained in the evaporating rainwater the other days. Thus, aerial radioaction will increase and decrease again and again in Kanto by this mechanism.

0.4 microSievert per hour is significantly increased, but not to a level where adults would have to fear physical consequences. The level is a bit of a worry if children play there and put things into their mouths. Incorporation of radioisotopes should be avoided as much as possible. Thus, parents should have particularly watchful eyes for their children and enforce proper washing of hands. Food from the fields around there should be washed and peeled properly. Maybe you could put it into water for a while, since large parts of the cesium in the food will dissolve into the water, which is then thrown away. Then Kashiwa will be okay for children as well.

@Neversubmit:

Bird droppings are not a large amount of matter. The amount of radioisotopes in birds is not necessarily extremely high, because they do not live on the ground (even though many feed on earthbound animals). I don't think that the birds will have a macroscopic influence on the distribution of radiation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

They scatter mostly on protons, which are the atomic nuclei of hydrogen, which is abundant in water. This is how they lose their energy, which is transferred to the proton, which more often than not breaks out of its chemical bond, going somewhere on its own, creating another trail of havoc on its path.

The hydrogen explosions at Daiichi, the hydrogen atom had a neutron or two along with the proton turning hydrogen into tritium and or hydrogen-3 and the energy from the hydrogen explosions must have been vast amount. Since radiation reached the US and Europe to some degree.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

For those of you who think the ACCJ or even the FCCJ brought professors Allison and Tokuhiro, I can assure you you are wrong. I met both of them as a result of an article I wrote in the Huffington Post in July "Report from Tokyo: My Final Report". Dr. Tokuhiro contacted me and introduced Dr. Allison. Over the next three months, we planned their trip. They are independent scholars with no ties to the nuclear industry AND they paid their own way. Conspiracy theorists....sorry to disappoint you!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Researchers said Thursday they will carry out stringent tests to map how far contamination has spread from the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant after a radiation hotspot was detected Wednesday in Tokyo’s Setagaya Ward."

Ummm, yall take your time ya hear? What, its only be 7 months and you just figured out you should to more mapping?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Not wishing to sound negative, but lets be careful about the facts. Was the higher microsievert rate measured on calibrated equipment, or an iPhone with geiger counter app? That is to say, is the reading reliable? The coverage was also fairly localised too, right? Like a patch of earth?

Johannes does raise an interesting point - there could be some interesting developments for people directly affected in Fukushima, although the chances of a sizeable birthrate may be reduced by the fact people were living in evacuation centres, and fairly traumatised too. Not an ideal environment for keeping a level birthrate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why am I surprised that they haven't been doing this already?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

OK David, I stand corrected. It does seem that just as on this site, there is much divergency in opinion amongst professors in the variois radiation fields, however. But I will pass on what you have said to the person who made the original claim. Be assured of that.

On the subject of the incinerators it would appear that the government has decided that 'bag filters' are all that is required to stop isotopes escaping the chimneys. These filters are made of cloth and as you would expect, trap the finest ash best when they are fairly full. I would imagine they need replacing frequently. Someone correct me again if I am wrong but I believe these filters are designed to catch dioxins.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Darren -

there is much divergency in opinion amongst professors in the variois radiation fields

Is there any stuff online that I can look at regarding the opposite view to Pfsrs Allison/Tokuhiro? I'm genuinely interested to see what ALL the views are. Thanks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Johannes Thank you :)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Information on the Allison/Tokuhiro presentations from Japan.Food.Safety (Facebook):

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEbQZz0TZCsQ&h=yAQDQEmCn

http://www.slideshare.net/RadiationAndReason/accj-food-safety-9535260

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This should be better: http://www.accj.or.jp/user/detailNews.php?newsid=506&file=/user/210/index/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And here is the YouTube entire series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsu7Yzs7RNA&feature=player_embedded&list=PL6BFCBCF9550B4E66#!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hi David - I posted that slide deck earlier too. I'm hoping to get some opposing views by similar level professors. All I can find is a linguistic expert in Kyoto university saying Kyoto is unsafe!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Utrack:

The energy of the radiation has no whatsoever connection to the hydrogen explosion. The latter is just a normal chemical process, which is basically irrelevant in a few hundred meters distance. The former is due to either particle transport through air (wind) and water (currents) or it is due to the production of radiation at already high energies directly at the plant.

The only thing that could produce really significant amounts of neutron beams which are measurable at a larger distance is a criticality. I have not heard of direct Fukushima related neutron radiation in Europe or North America. I might have missed something, but we're talking about extreme ranges here. Not even a hydrogen bomb has neutron beams that span the entire globe.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I thought the reading must be a mistake when I first heard.

Wool over the eyes as usual.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Great! I organized these events in order to get opposing views. That is exactly what we need. Informed opinions leads to informed choices. A lot of people I know are leaving Japan with their families. But before they do, I am hoping they hear all views first...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There will always be opposing views on any subject, you'll never have all experts agreeing about everything. That's why we all need accurate facts but at the end of the day we'll have to take responsibility for our own lives and how we can deal with the facts. How much radiation was in food prior to 3/11, we don't know because no one was measuring it. In America there are locations with radiation greater than 5 micro sieverts per hour, probably from all the atomic bomb testing?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Interesting twist- they are reporting on the news that the high levels of radiation have been tracked to bottles stored in a box under the floor of a house in the area, which suggests that it is not a natural hotspot at all, but somehow radioactive material has been brought to the area.

Perhaps we had better hold off on the panic and rants about the government withholding information until this has been clarified...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Fresh news. They say it is not from Fukushima. hhahahahahaha

0 ( +1 / -1 )

hhahahahahaha What a disappointment for you http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=soc&k=2011101300753

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It is refreshing news and not disappointing at all. But why would someone put those under the floor boards.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

<>http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=soc&k=2011101300753

The link is in Japanese but the same as the news.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@David and credit to you for doing so. As you say it IS a hard decision that has to be made by concerned parties. I have made my decision and am happy with it. Everyone should have the knowledge to make that decision. To be honest I think the American and Canadian chamber of commerce websites 'presents' bit threw ppl off a bit and robbed you of some credit. Semantics though.

@gyouza There was a picture in the paper and the council workers were using a proper survey meter with wand, not a geiger counter. Even if a geiger counter is inaccurate it may still be useful if it produces stable replicable results, as it would show a sudden increase in radiation that might allow residents to call in the pros with the proper gear to get the proper reading. Councils are not resourced well enough to find these hotspots driving around in cars and flying around in choppers. Cooperation is a good thing in my books. As far as divergent theories, well there are plenty of scientists with divergent theories in every field. They may not be of the same exact doctrine or status of emeritus as professor Wade, but Hiroaki Koide of Kyoto Univ. That Yamauchi gentleman of Kobe Uni, and Tatsuhiko Kodama of Tokyo Uni and the other gent ( completely forgotten his name,sorry) who angered the governor of Fukushima by equating some Tohoku food with poison.. certainly differ in their views.. And they work in the field too but are obviously fairly anti-nuclear. In opposition to that is the guy that came out and said ' you can drink plutonium and be safe'.. Well he worked for Tepco for many yrs. Who you trust is a personal choice. I know I am suspicious of the big money thrown around by the nuke industry as opposed to it's detractors. I haven't seen the news yet but it sounds like something quite bizarre. :) It doesn't mean there are no hotspots in Tokyo but maybe not at this Setagaya location. Who is it, some AUM nutcase? Lol

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think there were radiation hotspots in Tokyo BEFORE the nuclear accident. Just never tested for them, but I think they exist. Japan puts trash everywhere.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well, they've taken the bottles away for analysis. 30 microsieverts an hour they were giving off...

I wonder how much wristwatches gave off in the days when radium was used for night viewing?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Utrack

TEPCO observed 13 neutron beams 13 times from the power plant. About 1.5km SW of the 1&2 reactors. Over three days from Mar.13. The radiation was 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour. In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokai, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

How convenient finding those bottles under some floorboards was! I suppose no need to check Tokyo for hotspots now, and some money saved!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There are plenty of radioactive materials being found in sewage sludge.

This is not making the main news

Anyone living close buy to a plant should try and see what is being covered on any empty space inside.

Look for the blue sheeting ........

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Jesus, that is higher than a lot of the areas within the 30kms that I have been in, and at 2.00 we were all required to wear masks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is nothing surprising. Radioactive materials are everywhere. Many American fluorescent paints from 60's contain as much radium as those found in Setagaya. My grandfather in Australia still has them in his loft and probably many more bottles than what they found in Setagaya, and he is healthy 95 years old. Also my dad's old camera lenses have very high radiation (thorium). You can detect 1.5 microsieverts from the expensive old lenses by Leica and Olympus.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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