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Sunken WWII battleship Musashi found in Philippines

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This is really cool!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

With the memory of war slipping further and further from people’s minds, I hope this discovery will help make the public think about history.”

Well said.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

An awesome find

9 ( +9 / -0 )

With the memory of war slipping further and further from people’s minds, I hope this discovery will help make the public think about history.”

And make sure that history in the process does not get rewritten to suit one or another country's whims.

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

Japan needs to build unsinkable battleships

-29 ( +5 / -34 )

It is a gravesite and should not be disturbed.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

Au CONTRAIRE' CrazyJoe, they will raise it, and build a PARK & new Shrine in Yokohama bay, so all the Black Bus clowns have somewhere to hang out on the weekends.

-16 ( +8 / -24 )

This is great, I hope they do raise it if that's possible, I live in Yokosuka and I loved visiting the Mikasa and the little kind of history museum that have set up inside of it learned a lot about the Russian Japanese war, great opportunity to have something similar in regards to WWII

2 ( +5 / -3 )

A fascinating find. I really think they should leave it as undisturbed as possible, as a memorial. Whatever we think about the events of those tumultuous days or today's Japanese politics the people on that ship paid the full measure for their beliefs. I believe they and all those who suffer in war deserve better fates and I will think on them kindly.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

DanielJP

It's impossible to raise the Musashi, the ship is just too badly damaged. The Mikasa was raised because it sank close to the shore and was not so damaged.

I hope they'll make the Musashi a military grave to pay all honours to those who died for their country.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

... raise it ... raise it ...

Pretty sure they're not raising that. There are a lot of ships in line ahead of it, and don't recall any of those being raised. Titanic, Yamato, ...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I doubt that a Yamato class ship can be raised with a displacement of over 69,000 tons. Only 2 were built and a third converted to an aircraft carrier. The were basically white elephants since they were really useless by the the time of commission and Adm Yamamoto didn't want them but those in charge of the Imperial Navy still was in the old world. The third was converted to an aircraft carrier but on the way to Kure for final fitting it was sunk. Once the Musashi was sunk, the Yamato was laid up at Kure until it was decided to have it go on a suicide mission to Okinawa with no escorts. It was sunk on the way. Yamato and Musashi were sunk by aircraft, and the Shinano was sunk by a US submarine. Adm Yamamoto probably knew that battleships were out dated since he studied at the US Naval War College in 1924, 3 years after Billy Mitchell proved the superiority of aircraft over ships which in a way got him court martial-led. So stupidity was not limited to just to the Imperial Japanese Navy adminalty but included US Navy Adminalty as well.

20 ( +20 / -0 )

I hope they'll make the Musashi a military grave to pay all honours to those who died for their country.

Japan and the Philippines are signatories to the 2001 UNESCO treaty on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage. Article 1(8) states - Warships and other vessels or aircraft owned and operated by a state at the time of sinking and not engaged in commercial operations meet the definition of underwater cultural heritage.

However, this only applies to warships that were sunk in combat over 100 years before the present day (now 2015). This means that Japan (the flag state) will have to wait until 2044 to claim it as sacrosanct under the terms of the treaty. It seems that the Musashi is currently under the jurisdiction of the Philippines. I am not aware of any other maritime treaty details between Japan and the Philippines concerning the disposition of Japanese naval grave sites in that country's waters. Considering the number of Japanese military grave sites in the Philippines, I would not be surprised if some additional agreements were previously made concerning newly discovered locations. Perhaps other posters can elaborate.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I kind of feel sad that technology is solving so many mysteries such as this that perhaps should remain mysteries. But this raises the questions, 1. When will they get down there and install the engine to fight the Gamilas? 2. When will the Chinese have something to say about this? 3. How many Japanese TV news crews does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

Great, now apply the same tech to find MH370.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Japan needs to build unsinkable battleships

Not sure how you achieved time travel from the 1930s, but in this century we know that to a very silly idea.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japan does not need to build "unsinkable battleships"..... What we should be doing is begin to create... space battle ships... hohoho

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Great, now apply the same tech to find MH370.

You have to keep in mind that despite the US Navy knowing almost exactly where they had sunk the Musashi and even rescuing its surviving crew members, it still took 70 years to find it at a depth of only 1000 meters. If anything, this illustrates how finding MH370 is highly unlikely.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

America sinks the Musashi and America finds the Musashi. The irony isn't lost

2 ( +6 / -4 )

This will probably generate more interest from the Kancolle otakky than the general public...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

sugoi

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yubaru, well said!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I remember building a model of the Musashi when I was in elementary school. Was going to build the Yamato but the craft store was sold out and they had the Musashi in stock. Darn difficult to do, but a lot of fun. And learned a lot about the real ship in the process.

@Daniel Neagari: What did you have in mind? Uchuu Senkan Yamato?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Daniel Neagari

I was just thinking that they should start a sequel to the Yamato series and call it Uchusenkan Musashi.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

ka_chan I doubt that a Yamato class ship can be raised with a displacement of over 69,000 tons. Only 2 were built and a third converted to an aircraft carrier. The were basically white elephants since they were really useless by the the time of commission and Adm Yamamoto didn't want them but those in charge of the Imperial Navy still was in the old world.

Ok thank you for your post, it's standart opinion, that battleships were out of date after aircraft carriers were put in action.

Talking about sea battles Japan vs USA we should mention that these two opponents were not equal anyway.

USA produce much more weaponry and more up-to -date than Japan. Sad but truth. For example - USA produce more planes than all Axis. ( more than Germany Italy and Japan together)

So very quick Japan lost air battles in Pacific . And without air cover the best fleet was totally defenceless at that time. USA had much more planes much more fuel and much more trained pilots after Midway.

US industry was incomparable with Japanese. (one of the sad result - Kamikaze Corps) and one plane - one ship slogan.

The best battleship was useless in situation enemy air supremacy.

By the way IJN lacks modern radar. So this giant was blind.

IJN lacks modern AA guns so this giant was defendless from air.

So in normal situation - with good air-patrol with good radars and modern AA guns Jamato -class battleships were VERY dangerous

And Japanese Navy was exellent.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@zones2surf & Mirai Hayashi

Nah... I was thinking more something in the line as Magellan-class or Musai-class battle ships....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Now we need to find the Soryu, Hiryu and Akagi.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Jude beckam:

" Great, now apply the same tech to find MH370. "

Somehow I think a 70000 ton battleship leaves a bigger footprint on the ocean floor that a plastic/aluminium contraption coming down from 10 km height...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What a shame that she's not at a scuba diveable depth. I would definitely put her high on my bucket list of wrecks to dive.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Paul Allen's comment in another article about the ship: " The team will work with the Japanese government as it explores the wreckage to make sure it works in accordance with Japanese traditions. The billionaire said he hopes the discovery of the ship will bring closure to the families of those who lost their lives and close a chapter in WWII history".

So all is good :-)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If that wreck could talk, I wonder what it would say.

Musashi: "Geez, you guys managed to find me in all these years after you bothered to explore the wreck of my more famous identical twin sister YAMATO. I guess it can't be helped, after all she's the lead ship of HER class!"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

American warplanes sank the Musashi on October 24, 1944, at the height of the Battle of Leyte Gulf

But not at Leyte Gulf

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There's a wonderful photo of her bow and all I could think of the Yamato... particularly the space going version. I really hope this is marked as a war grave and is left alone by SK and Chinese divers intent on making a point, and by the diving fraternity in general.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

and is left alone by SK and Chinese divers intent on making a point, and by the diving fraternity in general.

It is at a depth that precludes diving.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Henk-Jan. No chance in hell. Those 3 were blasted to hell @ Midway. One of them, 4got which, leaked fuel after a hit causing a massive internal explosion. Great Sea Battles in the Pacific.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sunken WWII battleship Musashi found in Philippines

It is a military grave yard, it should be left alone. All those men gave their lives for their nation and should be held in esteem.

They fought and died for their nation and there is no greater honor than that. If you never served in the military with honor you would never understand what I mean......

Only a fanatic or a troll would scorn their great sacrifice!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Further to ka_chan's comment about battleships, the saying goes that there are two types of naval vessels, submarines and targets.

It's even worse now with missiles, some of which are very compact and can be fired by single operators. A decent hit on the runway and that big aircraft carrier is now useless.

Wasn't there a great story about some war games before the Gulf War where the admiral on the enemy side sunk most of the US fleet within 24 hours. Among other tactics, he used sneak and suicide attacks from pleasure and fishing boats. They had refloat the US fleet so that the war games could continue.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@David Van Cleefe - The Kancolle anime just introduced Yamato as their latest kanmusu. The other kanmusu marveled over her 46 cm guns...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Great, now apply the same tech to find MH370. actually they are, lets not forget it took Paul Allen around 7 yrs too find the Musashi, MH370 is in a far larger search area also. as the leader in the MH370 search said, its like trying to find a needle in a very large hay stack, and where still looking for the hay stack.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Space Battleship Yamato where are you?????

Jude BeckhamMar. 05, 2015 - 10:22AM JST Great, now apply the same tech to find MH370.

Tell that to the Malaysian government and Malaysian airlines. Paul Allen is a private citizen who is using his hard earned money to do whatever the funk he wants to do.

If you want to find the where's Waldo of the modern age then you need to put pressure at where it should be put.......the Malaysia government, Communist China and the corporations that are behind those fun loving groups.....

It is easier to blame someone else for the ineptitude of someone else's bureaucrats than face the fact that yours aren't very good to start with.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

be they mightMay find sailors bodies? Suisou is nort Japan's custom. So, after collectomg skeletoms. brimg bacl to Japan and emshrine on land?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

“The Musashi is truly an engineering marvel and, as an engineer at heart, I have a deep appreciation for the technology and effort that went into its construction.”

Yes - it was a engineering marvel of Japanese industry. Little and relatively poor country have build a wonder.

And this giant machine was fully functional - it was not improvised prototype.

And this is was not a copy. First and best.

After WW II Soviet Navy used as a backbone heavy missile cruiser (sometimes with planes as auxiliary weapon).

But always with thick armor and lot of missiles - as main weapon.

Not aircraft carriers.

Why ? Much higher survival rate under enemy attack.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It is a gravesite and should not be disturbed.

@CrazyJoe: I totally agree with you, with the exception being them moving it to Japan for the sake of the crew finally returning to their home country.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Sibuyan Sea is a small fraction of the MH370 search area that's based on satellite pings (the southern arc); both are pictured at this link (the Sea is the roundish body of water in the middle of the Phillippines): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Theoretical_Search_Area_MH370.svg

Not even close in size, and MH370 search area is way out in nowhere, not surrounded by islands that can provide fuel, etc.

And what if the satellite ping theory is off by some number? Hopefully they had real data from aircraft flying the area generating similar pings from same system, correlated with GPS, before they launched these huge searches.

But it seems like they're spending a lot more resources on the MH370 search, than Allen did on his, and government-level resources. The wikipedia article says the M370 priority underwater search area has been about 40 percent covered. So I wouldn't say never.

All that could have been saved if they'd provided geolocation data better than non-location-tagged pings once every (hour or so?).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I major flaws in Japanese aircraft was the lack of armor plate and self sealing wings. It killed more Japanese pilots than should have so Japan lost too many skilled pilots. Also the US didn't really concentrate on the pacific war until after 1942 and concentrated on the European front. The Japanese Naval codes were broken before the war began so 2 US aircraft carriers could sink 4 Japanese carriers. It didn't help that Japan didn't use any of their planes to cover the fleet. Japan knew the industrial strength of the US and still attacked which probably lead to the defeat of Germany. Japan should have attacked Russia which had better odds for the Axis power to have won the war. The US was neutral and would probably not have entered the war if Japan didn't attack. England also knew about the Pearl Harbor attack but did not inform the US since they wanted the US to enter the war. As for the Yamato class ships. It seems that the armor plate did not go below the water line and since no plans exists, it is hard to sat how good the ships really were.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan should have attacked Russia which had better odds for the Axis power to have won the war.

And maybe they would have.......if they hadn't gotten a bloody nose at the hands of Zhukov and the Soviets in Mongolia in 1939. If the battle had gone the other way - Japan wouldn't have signed the Neutrality Pact, or decided on the fateful "strike south" plan. Back on topic, it's good that the relatives of these brave sailors can find closure.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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