Taiji mayor says dolphin hunt will still go on

Taji is so nice compared to your average source of meat. They kill animals that have lived wild and free....Taji's hunt represents one of the the best forms of meat procurement.

Animals that have lived wild and free in the oceans that we have polluted, are at the top of the polluted marine food chain and have bodies so badly contaminated with mercury that even Taiji assembly men call the meat 'toxic waste'. Very nice.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2007/08/01/environment/taiji-officials-dolphin-meat-toxic-waste/#.Vfba3euOVk4

@ Moonraker

Sounds like you would always be able to make an argument for cruelty that way, Timtak. As long as you could find worse cruelty elsewhere then any current cruelty is ok.

No. I think that we are omnivores, and without a lot of effort it is difficult to avoid meat. I admire those that can spend the time avoiding meat: vegans. At the same time, I think that a lot of non-vegans are criticising Japan despite the fact that they eat battery farmed, lived-in-hell animals. Taji is so nice compared to your average source of meat. They kill animals that have lived wild and free. This is a billion times better than a battery farm to slaughterhouse system.

@Living Memory

I have to disagree with the "go, go Taiji" bit though. Horrible treatment of animals should simply stop across the board.

In other words we should stop eating animals. I respect that position. I only say "go go Taji" in so far as there are still meat eaters. Taji's hunt represents one of the the best forms of meat procurement. It is still horrible but far better than the way that meat is normally procured (tortured, and slaughtered).

@MrBum

timtak makes a good point though (at least in part) in that animals raised in factory farms like those in the US live a crappy life up to the point of slaughter. Literally, they live in their own filth. I suppose people should complain about that as much as the dolphin hunts.

Yes. Thank you.

Hi Tina.

Thank you for the link. It lays out the position of the Wakayama authorities, though I was already aware of that position. It doesn't do any more than that - i.e. it doesn't actually prove anything - as, as Cleo has pointed out, it doesn't provide any sources or evidence and is clearly, by nature, a biased document. But it fleshes your argument out a little, so thank you for sharing it. The most interesting part of it for me was:

the town has a 400-year history as the cradle of whaling

Which brings us back to your claim that Japan has been hunting dolphines since ancient times. 400 years is not ancient - and that's 400 years of whaling; the dolphin drive hunts are much more recent behavior, according to all information I'm able to find (if you have anything more convincing, of course please do share it). Furthermore, as I have already argued, a local tradition is not a national tradition. So, while I accept that Taiji has been whaling for centuries, and hunting dolphins apparently for decades, I don't accept that Japan has been hunting dolphins since ancient times.

As I said, not all of them are caught. Those that escape or on their way to Taiji can go home and tell other pods, or the other pods must realize the danger if the pods who went to Taiji never come back for centuries. So, why do they come back? They are either not as intelligent or are challenging Taiji people or maybe they think the life of aquarium is better than wild life? We don't know

Tina, this is laughable, give it up! They can go home? Dolphins don't have homes. They can tell other pods? Perhaps they do - but there's no way they can tell all of them, is there? They only have verbal communication, so if escaped dolphins do warn other pods it can only be a small portion of them. The lack of telecommunications among dolphins does not indicate stupidity. Also, other pods won't know that pods have "failed to come back from Taiji" unless they know they've gone there in the first place - and again, given that they don't keep travel blogs, your argument is spurious and again it in no way demonstrates stupidity in dolphins.

Now, I've already provided you with a bibliography of scientific evidence on dolphin intelligence. If you choose to intentionally ignore it you are intentionally choosing ignorance in order to suit your emotional position. I implore you to reconsider your statement that dolphins are stupid (in no way would backing down on that mean that you would be backing down on the Taiji hunts - I don't connect the two) as it has no logical basis.

There is always the second to anything. In this case, far second

You told me that it's wrong to discriminate living beings by intelligence. Now it looks like you're doing it? Anyway never mind that - it's not very relevant - but if you are accepting that dolphins are second to humans in intelligence, that is all I've been trying to say on that particular point.

you could improve your knowledge by reading it

Yes I could but stil it would not change the fact the dolphine is animal not human or religion

Again, I implore you not to ignore scientific evidence just because you don't like it. Indeed, it does not change the fact that dolphins are not humans - but that was never something I tried to claim, was it?

it is a fact that dolphine is eating yellowtails and damaging the fishery in another city

Fact? Evidence? Dolphins don't eat tuna - too large - in fact they are known to often swim together in mixed groups (for reasons not well understood)

Many west countries are ganging up to force their culture on Japan, just what WAZA did. It fits the definition

It really doesn't. As I said, the argument holds no weight coming from a former imperial power with the world's 3rd largest economy.

you are not a spokesperson for all Japanese

I don't know if it is because of my poor English or your lack of understanding of how the Japanese feel. If you can visit the Japanese news cite, please read their comments to see how the Japanese are talking about this

No, it is because of your failure to accept that not all Japanese think the same as you on every subject. I have spoken to a great many Japanese on this topic and heard a range of positions. I say again, you are not a spokesperson for all Japanese.

I never force the Japanese culture on the people in their countries

Good. I also never force my own culture on people in their countries. I'm going to have to point out to you once again that I have not said anywhere that Taiji must or must not do anything at all, or that dolphin hunting is morally wrong, or that Taiji has no right to do it. You are assigning that entire position to me based on an assumption, because I'm a foreigner and disagreeing with you on certain points. Your logic is flawed; again, I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I'm not attacking you, Tina, and nor am I attacking Taiji. I have been debating your scientifically unsound declaration that "dolphins are stupid", purely on scientific grounds - nothing to do with culture at all, or with Taiji - but, more importantly, I'm trying to gently suggest an alternative for Taiji that would actually be better for the town. On that point:

let me know what you think. It's a comparison between Taiji and Kaikora

It's just a newpaper article, there may be downside too. it's Taiji people to decide. I basically don't like to interfere or bother what other people are legally doing

Did you even read it? You're dismissing it as just a newspaper article, but that's beside the point. Of course it's for the Taiji people to decide - that's the whole point of the article! - what I want to know is what did you think about the suggestion the article was making?

You are insinuating I am an inferior creature than dolphin, a common attitude I often notice among westerners toward asians

I know that wasn't directed at me, but seriously Tina, again, what is this, the schoolyard? This issue has nothing at all, nothing whatsoever, to do with race. That you apparently think it does may explain why I'm finding it so hard to get you to listen to any suggestion I make however reasonably I do it.

Try again, this time with an independent, unbiased source.

Unbiased? If they think it is a tradition, it is a tradition. Who decide then? The westerners again?The ruler of the world.

Where is the dolphins' 'home', tina?

Wherever they come from. You know it is not an important point.

they cannot claim that taking dolphins to sell to aquariums is an ancient tradition

I never said the selling part is an ancient tradition.

A trait shared by many intelligent animals is the ability to learn. FCS learn how to spell dolphin. There's no -e on the end.

You are insinuating I am an inferior creature than dolphin, a common attitude I often notice among westerners toward asians. Above iskysong calling hunting Taiji mayor instead, I notice even worse in the other times.

Try this link to see if it is their tradition.

A link that is Wakayama Prefecture saying that it is tradition because they say it is tradition. References = 0, Historical links =0, reliable data =0. 納得度=0

Try again, this time with an independent, unbiased source.

Those that escape or on their way to Taiji can go home

Where is the dolphins' 'home', tina?

there were no aquariums in ancient times

Exactly. So they cannot claim that taking dolphins to sell to aquariums is an ancient tradition, can they?

the dolphine is animal not human

A trait shared by many intelligent animals is the ability to learn. FCS learn how to spell dolphin. There's no -e on the end.

@Yoshitsune

Try this link to see if it is their tradition.

http://www.pref.wakayama.lg.jp/prefg/071500/iruka/dolphin_fishery.pdf

dolphins don't "come back" to Taiji because they are dead after the first time.

As I said, not all of them are caught. Those that escape or on their way to Taiji can go home and tell other pods, or the other pods must realize the danger if the pods who went to Taiji never come back for centuries.

So, why do they come back? They are either not as intelligent or are challenging Taiji people or maybe they think the life of aquarium is better than wild life? We don't know.

second to humans.

There is always the second to anything. In this case, far second.

you could improve your knowledge by reading it

Yes I could but stil it would not change the fact the dolphine is animal not human or religion.

I think we can blame overfishing by humans for that one.

No, it is a fact that dolphine is eating yellowtails and damaging the fishery in another city.

As for cultural imperialism, don't make me laugh! The term, by definition, means the imposition by one strong culture on another weaker culture.

Many west countries are ganging up to force their culture on Japan, just what WAZA did. It fits the definition.

You can't cry "cultural imperialism" on the one hand and then on the other hand tell others that something is right or wrong because your own culture says so

I never force the Japanese culture on the people in their countries.

you are not a spokesperson for all Japanese.

I don't know if it is because of my poor English or your lack of understanding of how the Japanese feel. If you can visit the Japanese news cite, please read their comments to see how the Japanese are talking about this.

let me know what you think. It's a comparison between Taiji and Kaikora

It's just a newpaper article, there may be downside too. it's Taiji people to decide. I basically don't like to interfere or bother what other people are legally doing.

@Luce

Glad you agree - may I ask, are you Japanese yourself? I ask because if so, I think Tina will find it more convincing coming from you than from I... I hope she hasn't abandoned this thread

Why does it require "going to Japan" to make a moral decision?

I've never been to Nepal, but I am sure child trafficking that goes on is wrong. I tend to think what they are doing to the dolphins is basically on a par (in that its nature is the same and it causes a commensurate amount of suffering). Scientifically, dolphins are our very close relatives and feel pain, isolation and suffer just as we do.

Again, it does not take going to Japan to work out it's for an ignoble BS reason that has nothing to do with "Japanese culture".

Oscar-winning 2009 documentary

What does an Oscar win actually mean. There are only some 6,000 voting members in the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. "The Cove" managed to received more votes that the other four nominees, "Burma VJ", "Food, Inc.", "The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers", and "Which Way Home".

The town of Taiji should not be intimidated by the distorted views of a few thousand Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences members who have never been to Japan.

another sad and doomed day for the ocean and the earth, its time to hunt the mayor of Taiji instead....!!!!

I'm with Yoshitsune.

Neither dolphin slaughter nor whaling are "national" cultures or bunka. They have only been highly localised cultures.

In the case of the later, it's only really since the 1970s or so that specific government and industry interests (men who make money off it) have consciously elevated them national status.

And it's only since the hullabaloo against the large scale dolphin slaughters in the last few years have financial interests attempting to tag on dolphins into the equation.

And since when were aquariums and performing dolphins Japanese culture along with Kabuki and Noh?

Sadly, on such matters, even the most otherwise reasonable of Japanese have been brainwashed (and consciously from school age being fed unsellable whale meat).

@tina

You did not read my link

Hi again Tina, the link you provided isn't complete, if you post a working link I will certainly read it.

You keep saying evidence, but never show any link which show the evidence that dolphin is as intelligent as human, you can't because there is no such evidence

I said stupid because I was tired of hearing "intelligent". You can't explain Why dolphine come back to Taichi if not stupid

Sorry Tina, but the fact you're tired of hearing the word "intelligent" being used by foreigners has no bearing whatsoever on the question of whether or not dolphins are intelligent. As for the explanation of why dolphins "keep coming back", it's simple. As I have already pointed out, dolphins don't "come back" to Taiji because they are dead after the first time. The next pod of dolphins that comes along and gets caught didn't "come back" - each pod which falls victim is a new pod. As I have also already pointed out, the fact that one captured pod doesn't use telecommunications or written warnings to warn other pods against going to the area doesn't indicate a lack of intelligence. Furthermore, I haven't claimed that dolphins are as intelligent as humans; rather, that they are of equal or greater intelligence than the great apes, and second to humans.

Regarding evidence of their intelligence, there is a huge volume of scientific literature on the subject. Here is a bibliography on dolphin intelligence that I just pulled off Google:

http://marineanimalwelfare.com/bibliogr.htm#refer

It's a list of relevant literature i.e. scientific studies, articles in scientific journals, and books written by marine biologists and so on. It isn't possible to provide links to this material; you would have to obtain the books from bookshops or look the studies up in reference libraries. Of course I don't expect you to do that - you have clearly stated that you don't care how intelligent dolphins are - but I am hoping that you might, just possibly, be willing to acknowledge that this isn't a field of which you have great knowledge, that there is in fact a lot of evidence out there that you may not have been aware of, that you could improve your knowledge by reading it, and that if you don't wish to do so you perhaps should refrain from making statements like "dolphins are stupid" when in fact you will never find a single researcher who would agree with you.

Hunting dolphine is not environmental destruction, rather good things because some dolphines are doing bad things such as damaging some fish fields

I think we can blame overfishing by humans for that one.

you started it

What is this, the school yard?!

I don't recognise Taiji's dolphin hunting as a traditional part of the national culture of Japan

Who decide what is Japan's culture, Japanese or foreginers? If foreigners started to decide what is Japan's culture it is culture imperializm

I'm not saying that foreigners decide what is Japan's culture. I'm saying that the culture of a single small town like Taiji in a large country like Japan isn't national culture. It's local culture. As for cultural imperialism, don't make me laugh! The term, by definition, means the imposition by one strong culture on another weaker culture. Given that Japan's economy is the 3rd largest on Earth (larger than my own country's), and that Japan has a history as an imperial power (as does my own country), your charge against me of cultural imperialism rings utterly hollow. It's a defensive knee-jerk response that you would be well-advised to drop completely from your repertoire as it will never carry any weight.

Actually the Japanese are not interested in how intelligent the dolphines are because it is wrong to discriminate animals by intelligence. No-intelligent animals are equally precious. It's shintoism idea

Continuing on the theme of cultural imperialism, it appears that you've just informed me that it's wrong to do something because your own religion says so. You can't cry "cultural imperialism" on the one hand and then on the other hand tell others that something is right or wrong because your own culture says so. I'm not going to accuse you of cultural imperialism though, because as I said above it's a terribly weak argument. I'm also not resting my case on a "tu qouque" charge of hypocrisy (though I do think your post is a little hypocritical, that's by-the-by). What I do want to point out here is that I'm not religious and I won't be told what's right or wrong by someone else's religion (while fully respecting their right to believe so). And before you accuse me of hypocrisy, I will also here point out that I have not once tried to tell you that hunting dolphins is wrong, based on their intelligence or anything else. Please make note of that, because I will point it out again if you claim I have done so. Furthermore, you are not a spokesperson for all Japanese. There are many Japanese who do not agree with you and who are interested in dolphin intelligence.

I'm not trying to change Japanese culture

Yes you are

How so? Upon what action of mine do you base that charge? Let me once again point out that I haven't told you anywhere that dolphin hunting is morally wrong or that Taiji has to stop doing it. I personally am hoping that Taiji will eventually stop and find their way to eco-tourism, for the benefit of both themselves and the ecosystem, but I recognise that my personal wishes are not a very convincing argument to the Taiji fishermen. As I said above, I will read your link if you post it again and I'll let you know what I think. In return I ask that you read this link -

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/09/22/issues/kaikoura-taiji-tale-two-whaling-towns/#.VWG2ONSSxph

and let me know what you think. It's a comparison between Taiji and Kaikora (a former whaling town in New Zealand), and suggests that Taiji may be better off switching to an eco-tourism industry. I'm hoping that you'll be willing to ignore the fact that the suggestion is coming from a foreigner and assess it on its own merits.

@Luce-A

Considering how many Japanese lived in mountainous regions it's incorrect to suggest it is a national tradition.

Patently false. By that measure Shinto can't be a part of Japanese tradition since some people are Buddhists and some are just total non-believers.

My position is simply that there are good traditions, bad traditions and neutral traditions. Bad traditions should stop. Taiji whaling is a bad tradition if it is a tradition. Its just bad. Its barbaric and sick. And if it ends it will be far from the first barbaric and sick tradition to, thankfully, end.

Considering how many Japanese lived in mountainous regions it's incorrect to suggest it is a national tradition.

If it has happened many places in Japan since ancient times, and is still happenining somewhere in Japan, and the Japanese support the practice, then Japan's tradition. Tradition or culture does not have to happen all over Japan.

Considering how many Japanese lived in mountainous regions it's incorrect to suggest it is a national tradition.

@yoshitsune

You say "Japan has been hunting dolphins since ancient times". Taiji is a single small town in Japan

You did not read my link. Japan has been hunting dolphins since ancent times in many places in Japan. You said it was not a culture so I gave the link which shows it is a long tradition since ancient times.

You keep saying evidence, but never show any link which show the evidence that dolphin is as intelligent as human, you can't because there is no such evidence.

I don't recognise Taiji's dolphin hunting as a traditional part of the national culture of Japan

Who decide what is Japan's culture, Japanese or foreginers? If foreigners started to decide what is Japan's culture it is culture imperializm.

I don't recognise financial gain as a valid reason for environmental destruction

Hunting dolphine is not environmental destruction, rather good things because some dolphines are doing bad things such as damaging some fish fields.

I'm debating with you about whether or not dolphins are intelligent.

Yes, you started it. Actually the Japanese are not interested in how intelligent the dolphines are because it is wrong to discriminate animals by intelligence. No-intelligent animals are equally precious. It's shintoism idea.

Simply, you claimed that dolphins are stupid. As a scientist with a university education involving the study of brains and animal behaviour, including of dolphins, I am arguing against your scientifically completely undefendable argument.

I said stupid because I was tired of hearing "intelligent". You can't explain Why dolphine come back to Taichi if not stupid.

But I'm not trying to change Japanese culture.

Yes you are.

@cleo

But not selling them to aquariums since ancient times.

Because there were no aquariums in ancient times.

Japan has been hunting dolphines since ancient times.

But not selling them to aquariums since ancient times. Today, it's the live sales that bring in the money. Stop those, and the 'traditional' mercury-laced meat industry/culture nonsense will become unsustainable.

Lots of similar stuff is still going on worldwide but Ssssh we need to stop Japan. 1st.

Mmm, yeah, cos this is Japan Today. If you want to post about the Peru dolphin hunt, maybe you need to be on the PeruToday website? Killing dolphins is apparently illegal in Peru, although the police seem to turn a blind eye to the sale of dolphin meat and the use of the meat as shark bait.

@tina

Japan has been hunting dolphines since ancient times

I don't accept that on your say so. According to the whaling museum in Taiji itself, Taiji has been whaling since the Edo era. while that does show that whaling is a tradition, in that town, it doesn't show that Japan has been hunting dolphins since ancient times.

You say "Japan has been hunting dolphins since ancient times". Taiji is a single small town in Japan; Whales and dolphins are not the same thing; and "The dolphin drive hunts, according to the town’s own written history, says a couple of drive hunts occurred in 1936 and 1944, but the current series of hunts only began in 1969" (Ric O'Barry)

My academic background is in neuroscience

Of dolphines?

Human neuroscience mostly. The study of which included studying mammalian brain structure and cognitive abilities, including those of cetaceans. I also took modules in evolutionary psychology and animal behaviourism, much of the evidence for which comes from studies involving dolphins.

What scientific community?

What scientific community? How do I even answer that question? The scientific community is the scientific community. The people who research scientific question and publish their findings in journals like Nature, and have often published evidence of the advanced cognitive abilities and problem-solving skills of dolphins.

Are you sure only those 3 animals?

Am I sure only those 3 animals? Sure about what? The mirror test? Yes, thanks to the evidence of the scientists who studied them, I am sure. Only cetaceans and the great apes pass the mirror test. If you don't know what the mirror test is, please Google it, it's most interesting.

How about dogs?

What about them? Are they smart? Yes. Are they as smart as dolphins? No. Do they pass the mirror test? No.

I'm sure many other animals are equally or more intelligent

Based on what? The fact you need to be sure of that because it suits your argument?

I'm sure Japanese govt has looked into it and decided there is no evidence that dolphine is particularly intelligent

How reassuring. It sounds to me like you're just guessing and making up answers to suit your earlier baseless statement that dolphins are stupid.

because your uyoku sensibilities require it.

ad hominem

No. Ad hominem means that I am attacking your argument based on your character rather than your argument. Please don't accuse me of such laziness. I don't refer to your nationalist (i.e. uyoku) sensibilities as a way to smear your character or devalue your argument. Rather, my point is that I believe that your nationalist sensibilities are leading you to make an argument for which you actually have no other basis for your opinion (and furthermore which is completely contradicted by all scientific evidence on the subject) than that "Japan-bashing" foreigners said the opposite and you want to argue against them - the intelligence of dolphins exists quite independently of whether Japanese nationalists want to argue that they're stupid in order to counter the arguments of "Japan-bashers" that dolphins are too intelligent to hunt (an argument, please note, that I have not actually put to you)

(A note regarding language - Japanese is not my first - If you are offended by the term uyoku, then I apologise. I used it to mean "Japanese nationalist", and I would imagine you would agree that you are a Japanese nationalist? If the term uyoku has a connotation for you beyond that which causes offence, it wasn't my intention to do so)

You're trying to change Japan's culture, Japan is trying to defend it.

A. I don't recognise Taiji's dolphin hunting as a traditional part of the national culture of Japan B. Even if I did, I don't recognise financial gain as a valid reason for environmental destruction - I'm also opposed to killing elephants and rhinos for their ivory, tigers for traditional Chinese medicine, other animals for their fur, etc C. I also do not recognise tradition alone as a valid reason to continue doing something destructive e.g. I was actively opposed to the tradition of fox hunting in the UK (thankfully now outlawed) D. "You're trying to change Japan's culture" - actually, no I'm not. I'm debating with you about whether or not dolphins are intelligent. I haven't said that for this reason Taiji should stop hunting them - that is a separate argument, and as I just noted above, not an argument that I've made. Perhaps you're lumping me in with all the other "Japan-bashers" and assuming that as I'm arguing against you on one point I must therefore think that? Not a logically sound step, I'm afraid. Simply, you claimed that dolphins are stupid. As a scientist with a university education involving the study of brains and animal behaviour, including of dolphins, I am arguing against your scientifically completely undefendable argument.

Regarding Taiji, yes I do want them to stop hunting dolphins. But I'm not trying to change Japanese culture. I'm hoping that Taiji will find its way to eco-tourism - for the benefit of both the dolphins and the marine ecosystem of which they are a part, and also for the benefit of Taiji itself which I believe would be far better off financially as an eco-tourism destination, if they can make the switch.

business??? I thought they always claimed it was a cultural thing.

You say what. It is culture and is business.

In addition to keeping the cove free of blood, whale/dolphin tourism has the added advantage that it benefits a wider range of people; hotels, minshuku, restaurants, boat operators, equipment rental operations, tour guides, souvenir shops, etc., etc., not just the people who take and sell the meat/animals.

You do that please. and advice to them.

@Yoshitsue

Taiji fishermen have only been drive-hunting dolphins for a few decades

Japan has been hunting dolphines since ancient times.

ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/

My academic background is in neuroscience

Of dolphines?

it's well established among the scientific community that dolphins, whales, and the great apes are the most intelligent animals we humans share the earth with.

What scientific community? Are you sure only those 3 animals? How about dogs? I'm sure many other animals are equally or more intelligent.

without any regard for the body of scientific evidence to the contrary

I'm sure Japanese govt has looked into it and decided there is no evidence that dolphine is particularly intelligent.

because your uyoku sensibilities require it.

ad hominem. You're trying to change Japan's culture, Japan is trying to defend it. Who is uyoku?

Animals usually evolve to avoid dangers for existance. They know where the dangers are if not stupid. Maybe there are too many dolphine so God made them stupid.

Thanks Tina, good to start the day off with a laugh. Would you argue that orangutans are stupid because they keep getting shot by palm oil farmers? That if they were really smart, they'd know that they'd be safer in Europe and would move there instead? You don't come across as being of a very scientific bent, but I'll have a go - evolution takes an extremely long time to take place. Malaysian farmers have only been shooting orangutans for a few decades and Taiji fishermen have only been drive-hunting dolphins for a few decades, so don't expect them to evolve into new species in response any time soon.

Dolphins do have the capacity to learn, and they do so very quickly. It is unlikely that any individual dolphin who is released from Taiji is stupid enough to return there. They don't have an instant long range communication system with which to then warn the entire dolphin species, but this really doesn't mean they're stupid. My academic background is in neuroscience, and it's well established among the scientific community that dolphins, whales, and the great apes are the most intelligent animals we humans share the earth with. Cetaceans are the only animals, along with the great apes, to pass the mirror test, and the problem solving abilities of dolphins are well documented. The combined evidence of the research of marine biologists, neuroscientists, and animal behaviorists is, I'm afraid, much more convincing than your laughable argument that they're stupid because they keep getting caught at Taiji. But I suppose you'll keep saying it until you're blue in the face, without any regard for the body of scientific evidence to the contrary, because your uyoku sensibilities require it.

Yoshitsune: " I would like you to explain how a pod of dolphins off the coast of Japan would know that they shouldn't go near Taiji."

Animals usually evolve to avoid dangers for existance. They know where the dangers are if not stupid. Maybe there are too many dolphine so God made them stupid.

If you want to stop dolphin hunting in Taiji you find new business to them.

The obvious natural resource is the sea; dolphin-watching tours, swim-with-wild-dolphins programmes. It's been successful in other parts of Japan, no reason it wouldn't be successful in Wakayama.

In addition to keeping the cove free of blood, whale/dolphin tourism has the added advantage that it benefits a wider range of people; hotels, minshuku, restaurants, boat operators, equipment rental operations, tour guides, souvenir shops, etc., etc., not just the people who take and sell the meat/animals.

Why do you attack Taiji-cho? If you want to stop dolphin hunting in Taiji you find new business to them.

business??? I thought they always claimed it was a cultural thing.

Why do you attack Taiji-cho? If you want to stop dolphin hunting in Taiji you find new business to them.

@Yoshitsune:

Thanks for the post. Very interesting article.

Agreed, there may be other things that Taiji could do. What I was trying to highlight was that, at present, they really don't have a diversified economy, so they are sort of stuck.

But, of course, deciding to reorient themselves to do something different is absolutely an option. Give the billions the government is spending on the boondoggle waste of taxpayer money known as the 2020 Olympics, getting a few yen from the government to help with the transition would be a good thing.

But, no, my guess is that there is too much pride involved here.....

My good japanese friends agree with me ;hang this mayor .. soon !!

They don't come back after their first visit, because they are dead

Taichi people catch only some of them. The dolphine should know if any dolphine which went to Taichi did not come back, but they are so stupid they keep coming to Taichi

Can you please explain that absurd line of reasoning for me? How should dolphins know if other dolphins went to Taiji and didn't come back? Their lack of smartphones or the internet with which to share such information doesn't show that they are stupid. I would like you to explain how a pod of dolphins off the coast of Japan would know that they shouldn't go near Taiji.

@ Tina, and which is the only species that keeps fighting wars?

Certainly not the Japanese. Your country people?

They don't come back after their first visit, because they are dead.

Taichi people catch only some of them. The dolphine should know if any dolphine which went to Taichi did not come back, but they are so stupid they keep coming to Taichi.

@tinawatanabe

If dolphins were intelligent, they wouldn't come to Taichi every year for hundreds of years

They don't come back after their first visit, because they are dead. The fact they don't shoot off a warning email before they're hacked up isn't really evidence of their lack of intelligence.

The people who bash Japan on dolphin hunt....

Not bashing Japan. Only the fishermen of a single town in Japan. Not the same thing.

....should be bashing their own countries who slaughter more animals than Japan does

On an article about Taiji? Not relevant. Pure whataboutery. Maybe I do criticize other countries over their treatment of animals - in fact I most certainly do. But this is not the place for that.

my local sushi guy says the dolphin meat ends up in kamoboko, the fish sausage

@zones

Hello mate, interesting question you ask:

Second, can anyone tell me what else Taiji is known for?! Taiji is like a number of other small fishing communities around Japan, basically dying off and largely a one industry town. For Taiji, it just happens to be whaling historically. So, my point is, what else will they do if they don't continue doing what they do?

And here's an interesting article exploring exactly that:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/09/22/issues/kaikoura-taiji-tale-two-whaling-towns/#.VV8s7xjXeK0

For those not inclined to follow the link, in summary it compares Taiji with Kaikora, a former whaling town in New Zealand which is now a thriving whale watching hotspot (lovely place, I've been there), and argues that Taiji would actually be better off economically by stopping the hunts and switching to ecotourism, never mind the moral and environmental arguments and the obvious benefit of not being a focal point of global outrage.

WHey don't the rest of the world mind there own business, go agent Iceland or Norway and see what would happen.

We do.

Cross reference: in south Taiwan there are some local "eateries" that serve dolphin meat stew cooked in ginger ...the meat if from dolphins caught in fishing nets inadvertently and for research i ordered the dish once 2o years ago. Its not on the menu. You ask the chef owner for "fragrant meat" . You dont say "hai toon"

WilliBMay. 22, 2015 - 07:00AM JST A "dolphin breeding farm"? That is not all that easy, I understand.

Yes, but honestly nobody actually expects them to breed. They'll just grab some baby dolphins from the next slaughter, claim that they "bred" them and sell them to zoos - who will happily buy them with a nudge, wink and chuckle at how "clever" they've been in bypassing that international ban.

@Yoshi Abume

For your reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

Mayor Kazutaka Sangen told reporters that the town was considering setting up a dolphin breeding center by penning off a section of a cove, apparently with the aim of winning back customers who want to buy live animals.

Disgusting. Why can't they just all buy a larger boat and take tourists out to sea to watch the dolphins and any other whale species in their natural habitat?

WHey don't the rest of the world mind there own business, go agent Iceland or Norway and see what would happen.

It seems that Taiji would never change the way of life as long as their business is running good as to meat as food and exporting to overseas aquariums whatever people accuse Taiji about. This is a domestic matter in Japan.

It is fascism that you say do not eat it to other people.

dolphin meat is really bad for people. i hope the children are not eating it. i don't like dolphins any more or less than tuna or any other creature. but to carry on like these people is shame on japan.

Me too. I asked a genuine question and all I got was a hit-and-run negative. Hopefully someone can answer this

I did answer this

@sidesmile

I really want to know where the meat ends up.

Me too. I asked a genuine question and all I got was a hit-and-run negative. Hopefully someone can answer this.

people are making living by hunting dolphins. If they were forced to stop this practice, they would go under public support,

The people of Taichi can do other things to sustain their economy. They just choose not to. They are a port city so they can easily expand into trade and/ or commercial fishing which would all be much more prosperous.

Dolphin hunt will go on, and who will continue to pay for it?

Taichi people are making living by hunting dolphins. If they were forced to stop this practice, they would go under public support,

If dolphins were intelligent, they wouldn't come to Taichi every year for hundreds of years.

Oh, so if someone backed you into an ally and clubbed you to death, the it would be obviously be your fault for not being smart enough to realize what's about to happen right?...great logic there!

My first exposure to the Taiji slaughter of dolphins was in a Time Life book in the 60s when I was a kid, the pictures of dead & dying dolphins, a few fishermen & the water all red as the reddest tomato.........

And to think still to this day nothing has changed, I may have to question the theory of evolution!

'dolphins are highly intelligent animals

If dolphins were intelligent, they wouldn't come to Taichi every year for hundreds of years.'

I see. So it's a case of enter this place the risk of being horrifically butchered by morons with sticks. If they are stupid enough to enter, they get what they deserve? That's some reasoning.

Do us a favour. If you're called up for lay judge or jury duty, throw a sickie.

Dolphin hunt will go on, and who will continue to pay for it? We will. While the government is nothing but largesse for crooks and barbarians like this, they don't have any spare change at all for where it's needed - Tohoku.

dolphins are highly intelligent animals

If dolphins were intelligent, they wouldn't come to Taichi every year for hundreds of years.

The people who bash Japan on dolphin hunt should be bashing their own countries who slaughter more animals than Japan does. The Japanese meat consumption is much smaller than the westerners.

@Mr. Noidall

where else are you going to get dolphin meat from? Unless you can come up with a better idea yourself on how to put dolphin burgers and steaks on the table, you should nip your criticism in the bud.

Taiji is not the only place on the planet where dolphins can be found. They can be found in a lot of places. The reason why dolphins aren't being slaughtered and sold in other countries is because there is no demand for them. If there was a popular demand for dolphin burgers, I'm sure that McDonald's would have cornered the market for it a long time ago. As it so happens, they have not,meaning that the majority of the planet, and the majority of Japan do not have an affinity for dolphin meat, hence the industry is dying. I can also confidently say that most likely this industry won't survive another generation or another decade for that matter. The mayor of Taiji lives in his little fantasy world where everyone eats and enjoys dolphin meat, while being paid off to create and maintain legislation to keep the industry going. And like many people in that town, they are blind to the rest of the word, and cannot comprehend the lack of need for this industry.

The dolphin meat ends as cat food for j pets, no?

My local supermarket had dolphin meat once. It literally sat for days in the "fish" section until it was finally removed. No one wants to eat dolphin meat and this was a testament to it. After that, I never saw them sell dolphin meat again.

Compared to how other mammals are tortured and killed by humans, the dolphins hunted at Taiji have it easy.

really? They have it easy? How so? They get forced and trapped into a little cove where they have to swim in their own blood tainted water trying to escape people clubbing them and drowning them until they suffocate and die.

Also, you've got to remember (if you are even aware at all) that dolphins are highly intelligent animals that have been proven to have distinct and different languages, dialects, and cultures depending on the region they are from. They are also able to express emotion in many ways that a human can. They are known to be aware of their children and families being slaughtered as well. Now tell me again, how is that "having it easy"?

*"dolphin breeding farm"***** lol breeding dolphin in captivity is very dificult, many of the newborns die before reaching adults. Taiji will find that breeding dolphins much more difficult than killing them. 172 dolphins at a million yen each, ooch thatll hurt any companies bank account

“We believe it can become the world’s main provider. I believe in 10 years our town will have changed its role in all this.”

Uhh... No, I don't see that particular scenario unfolding. I see a collapsed industry clinging to a fantasy that its services are still relevant in the modern world and a few crusty, wrinkled old "fishermen" sitting around a local bar, grumbling bitterly:

"And we would've gotten away for it too, if not for those pesky gaijin."

I am shocked that I received 5 thumbs down. But I guess this is par for the course for humanity. People love to increase their own perceived status by making a pariah out of some group of people. And of course mixed in is the the feeling that dolphins are extra special (a feeling I do basically share by the way).

But you don't need to drive all the way to Taiji to view mammals being tortured and slaughtered. To see the result, just go to a restaurant.

Meanwhile, the living dolphins are still being slaved for your amusement by members of today's "heroes" WAZA and JAZA.

I feel like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

Of COURSE they'll continue! No one eats near enough to justify the catch, which is tainted with mercury, they have to force-feed it to school children (despite the mercury levels) to justify it, the town is literally hated the world over for what they do, they are only profiting from it through government subsidies, now no aquarium will buy from them without potentially losing their JAZA membership (and WAZA will be watching), it's an inhumane, barbaric practice that is WAY out of date.

So, yeah, why WOULDN'T they do it? It certainly can't just be knee-jerk nationalism and stubborn pride, or the aforementioned handouts. Like with many in the agricultural sector in Japan, these old codgers have gotten fat and comfortable off the government teat, and are unable to be competitive or do anything else. You point this out, they cry 'attack on our culture' and hide behind the government. Pathetic. I hope they continue to be in the spotlight and despite the mayor's rosy predictions for the town's future, continue to feel the squeeze and, if they are refusing to change, get wiped out.

Japanese have been eating marine lives such as all kinds of fish like saury, bonito, tuna,,,etc and many kinds of whales absorbed more or less mercury for hundreds of years, but it is true that elderly people have an amazing longevity in comparison with others though they a little higher level of mercury in body.

The dolphin meat ends as cat food for j pets, no?

And kids' school lunches.

The dolphin meat ends as cat food for j pets, no?

You can feed the mercury-laden meat to your kids

Taiji always seems to checking the level of mercury, but not all, no one would want much mercury. All marine lives have more or less mercury.

book a seaside hotel this weekend in Taiji and go set up a human shield to prevent boats from leaving the shore.

Police are always on the side of firshermen. If you did it, you would probably be forced out of the town due to illegal distrubances to their business.

I think we should be finding flipper for his comment on this disgrace.

Every single time I hear this kind of argument, one question pops into my head, and that is, "What about other animals? why the exceptions?"

For me at least, it's about the way they are slaughtered. The "fisherman" just randomly stab their spears into the water which is jam packed with dolphins. It's just really haphazard, and it's hard watching wounded, bloody dolphins desperately jumping out of water until they simply can't anymore. At least with cows, chickens, etc. efforts can and usually are made to make their deaths as quick and painless as possible.

timtak makes a good point though (at least in part) in that animals raised in factory farms like those in the US live a crappy life up to the point of slaughter. Literally, they live in their own filth. I suppose people should complain about that as much as the dolphin hunts.

Easy for a lot of people to complain on an article on English website. Do you think the Taiji government is reading this site as we speak? If you are adamant about this, book a seaside hotel this weekend in Taiji and go set up a human shield to prevent boats from leaving the shore.

This country would rather save face than save money and resources. They'd rather bankrupt themselves. Nobody wants those dolphins - dead or alive. You can feed the mercury-laden meat to your kids, bankrupt your town, ruin the country's image abroad - go ahead, not my country, don't care.

As long as non-Japanese keep kicking up a stink, the Japanese will never cease killing dolphins.

Not true. That's the only way to get anything done. Gaiatsu has been proven to work time and again throughout history. Fostering awareness among Japanese about mercury levels - while NHK smothers dissent - is the trick

Absolutely sickening .... babaric behaviour of totally uncivilised peasants with absolutely no conscience or ability to comprehend anything but their narrow and blinkered peasant-like approach to life.

May they all choke on their next bowl of whale meat and then return as a dolphin themselves.

@cevin7,

I think you are missing the point. No one is really criticizing the fact that there is a dolphin hunting industry, (although I personally think the whole industry needs to be banned as it serves no real purpose than to keep a tiny community's aging population and dying hunting industry afloat).

The main criticism is with the cruel and barbaric methods that they use to do it. They CLUB these poor animals to a bloody pulp until the the shoreline is literally bright red with dolphin blood. I would have less of an issue this this if they did it more humanely, but they don't even make an effort to find other means.

Secondly, I HATE...HATE!! the way the local government tries to fend off controversy by claiming that they are a "dolphin friendly" community and have plans on opening a waterpark...absolute BS and totally and utterly RIDICULOUS.

This is basically a rogue community living in their own little bubble and thinking that there is still a need and demand for dolphin products in Japan, when there clearly isn't. Its a dying industry being kept alive by an aging tone deaf population and a corrupt government who have the inability to understand anything that goes on outside of their bubble...really sad.

First we pollute their habitat with heavy metals, plastics, chemicals and isotopes, then we capture them to force them to perform tricks for our own sense of enjoyment, enclosing them in tiny spaces... or murder them for archaic nonsensical pride, or for cash through a nationalist tainted mechanism labelled 'tradition'. What a BS species we are.

It's interesting that they are focussing on the live dolphin trade, which is one of the most hated practices in the modern world. The WHO has deemed dolphin meat unfit for human consumption due to the high amounts of mercury, pesticides and other contaminants, but it is not enough to stop these wombats eating it and feeding it to their kids. Dolphin farming has been proven to be extremely difficult and unsuccessful. They state they want to protect the livelihoods of the fishermen, but if they do start farming dolphins they fishermen will be out of work anyway. Their whole argument is based on contradictions, fallacies and culturally biased ignorance. "Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity cannot!"

Just want to make sure I am clear on this. Locals state they hunt dolphins because a) its culture and b) they eat too many fish. And now Taiji is suggesting they breed dolphins?

Honestly, the oyaji in this country are destroying it with their BS pride and refusal to grow up and move on.

this whingeing about killing dolphins is so irrational, and hypocritical. there is no reason to protect these dolphins; they are not endangered. i guess cultural imperialism works only one way.

Every single time I hear this kind of argument, one question pops into my head, and that is, "What about other animals? why the exceptions?"

As long as non-Japanese keep kicking up a stink, the Japanese will never cease killing dolphins.

Hiding behind the tradition argument doesn't cut the mustard. Firstly, it only started some 46 years ago. And, even if it were a tradition, that does not automatically qualify it to be acceptable. Some traditions have to go.

Any argument alluding to "the West kills animals inhumanely" (yes, it sure does!) doesn't fly either. Justifying cruelty by referencing another party's cruelty is not, in fact, any justification.

And, I ask, who enjoys watching animals do stupid tricks anyway, while living in a concrete jail that would NEVER, EVER replicate the ocean? Who? Like the tricks themselves, stupid people.

Of course they are not going to give up their hunt. Why would they?! And before everyone down votes me, let me explain why I say this.

First, the government gives them cover. This is the same government that supports the hunting of whales, so it is hardly a surprise. And there is strong support for this among segments of the Japanese population, like it or not. I can't begin to tell you how many Japanese I have met, including younger Japanese, who despise groups like Sea Shepherd and think Japan should be allowed to continue its "traditions". Not saying it is right, just saying that this is the reality.

Second, can anyone tell me what else Taiji is known for?! Taiji is like a number of other small fishing communities around Japan, basically dying off and largely a one industry town. For Taiji, it just happens to be whaling historically. So, my point is, what else will they do if they don't continue doing what they do? And given that they can continue to sell dolphins to aquariums overseas for now, there is no reason for them to stop unless they are forced to stop.

We should be clear that there are 3 things that would lead to the end of this practice.

First, ensuring that the Japanese public understands the risks associated with eating dolphin meat, particularly its outrageously high amounts of mercury. All Japanese should be reminded of Minamata and the effect of mercury. And should be aware of the facts around dolphin meat. And should demand that the Japanese government enforce strict food labelling. Because right now, it is a joke when it comes to dolphin meat sold in Japan for human consumption.

Second, there is obviously the issue of overseas aquariums that are purchasing dolphins from Taiji. WAZA should follow up, particularly with China. Of course, China tends to do its own thing, but it would still be the next logical thing. Basically, the income flow to Taiji would need to be squeezed.

Third, and this is one that is just a function of time. Taiji has a population of 3,387. Of this, 2,032 residents are 50+. 1,559 residents are 60+. This town is ageing and shrinking. In 20 years, the demographics in this town will be horrendous.

Taiji is no different from any number of other towns in Japan in that sense. With a real crisis on its hands and knowing its future is uncertain at best, even apart from the issues surrounding this hunt that have made it infamous globally.

If you are the mayor and leaders of this town, what do you do?! Do you commit economic suicide?! I am not saying it is right, I am just saying that this is the reality.

We believe it can become the world’s main provider. I believe in 10 years our town will have changed its role in all this.”

Boy is this guy tone deaf...talk about living in a bubble!

sidesmile

I guess that everybody and foreigners in Japan may have been eating produced food included dolphin unknowingly everyday or maybe at restaurants sometimes.

Sadly, timtak is not wrong. Compared to how other mammals are tortured and killed by humans, the dolphins hunted at Taiji have it easy. But people facing their own hypocrisy never comes easy does it?

I have to disagree with the "go, go Taiji" bit though. Horrible treatment of animals should simply stop across the board.

Japanese officials said came in response to foreign pressure

Because Japanese would never question the validity of mass killing of dolphins. This is just gaijin-ism. The reality is that many Japanese are just as upset with this but the government needs a scapegoat. Otherwise they'd have to quit their jobs or do something of value for a living

Sounds like you would always be able to make an argument for cruelty that way, Timtak. As long as you could find worse cruelty elsewhere then any current cruelty is ok.

I really want to know where the meat ends up. Do the the folks in and around Taiji hoover it up like there's no tomorrow? Is it processed, mislabeled, and sold to canneries as something else? Is it in our kids lunches? Where does it go??

At least eating dolphin is better than eating creatures that have spent all their lives in hell. The dolphin lived wild and free except for the last day. Go go Taji.

"My justification is...I wanna keep my job as mayor"

it is lately said that more aquariums are thinking about withdrawing from JAZA in the future. Small aquariums don't belong to JAZA. More aquariums would withdraw from JAZA to keep buying fresh ones. Because most can't make/have too expensive facility/expert staffs for breedings.

Hunt down the hunters.

Funny how the other article about pledging more money to develop Asia countries to boot the Japanese image and this one article just tears that image gain to shreds! Maybe the JGov should spend those billions of dollars to make this monstrosity stop and the Japanese image would get a much higher boost than all the cash in the world could buy!

"..the town was considering setting up a dolphin breeding center by penning off a section of a cove, apparently with the aim of winning back customers who want to buy live animals."

What customers are they going to "win back"? The World Assoc. Zoos & Aquariums will expel Japanese zoos and aquariums if the hunt goes on as said here.

"My justification is that the government recognises the catches and so does the prefecture," Sangen added. "There's absolutely nothing wrong."

I think this is what moral philosophers would call 'situational ethics'. Few things in Japan are ever considered inherently right or wrong, moral or immoral. It all depends on who is watching, who else approves of it, what their social status is, do they make up the majority etc.

As the commercial nature of the slaughter became more clear the old "it's our culture" excuse kinda looked ridiculous. Now the justification has been reduced to, "well, there is no law against it."

Most of them were killed for their meat

Who uses/eats dolphin meat?

“My justification is that the government recognises the catches and so does the prefecture,” Sangen added. “There’s >absolutely nothing wrong.”

"I didn't do anything wrong....I was just following orders."

Mayor Kazutaka Sangen told reporters that the town was considering setting up a dolphin breeding center by penning off a section of a cove, apparently with the aim of winning back customers who want to buy live animals.

If you stop slaughtering the other ones maybe folks will believe you, but I doubt it.

“We plan to protect our fishermen, who have authority from both the nation and the local government,” Sangen said, emphasising the tradition of the hunt.

Protect fishermen? Men who "fish" for a product no one in their right minds would knowingly eat? Their egos are way too big to see that they are a dying breed and are just hanging on and living in their own dream world. They seriously need to be slapped back into reality!

it seems that Taiji would never stop it whatever happened to the town. Japan is exporting hundreds of dolphins to aquariums of China, South Asian and Middle East countries every year. China is the best customer for Taiji even if domestic aquariums don't buy.

Who will buy the live/ dead dolphin remains?

A "dolphin breeding farm"? That is not all that easy, I understand.

but it has no plans to halt the controversial hunt, its mayor said on Thursday.

Now there's a surprise I never expected.... not