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Teacher forces 96 students to kneel for 20 minutes as punishment for being late

105 Comments

A Tokyo school teacher made 96 high school students kneel for 20 minutes in the plaza outside the Tokyo Metropolitan Government building in May, officials said Saturday.

According to the board of education, the 35-year-old teacher said he was annoyed with the students who were late for a field trip and ordered them to kneel on the tiles for 20 minutes to discipline them, Fuji TV reported.

The teacher told the board he thought it was important that the students learn the importance of being on time.

The board said it will hold an inquiry to find out why nine other teachers who were present on the field trip did not intervene.

The 96 students were part of a contingent of 156 from the school, who visited other parts of Tokyo, including Asakusa and Tokyo Skytree as part of their field trip.

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The board said it will hold an inquiry to find out why nine other teachers who present on the field trip did not intervene.

This is fairly par for the course in Japanese high schools, and the punishment of 'kneeling for 20 minutes' doesn't seem particularly harsh. I am guessing there is significantly more not being reported here, as is usually the case with these types of Japanese news stories.

I have seen teachers in Japan mete out much worse punishment than this, namely in sports (scathing verbal abuse and physical punishment) and nobody, including myself, intervened.

30 ( +30 / -2 )

The other nine teachers were probably "kohai" of the 35-year-old teacher or just scared of him. Not being Japanese the only way I would intervene would be if they were being physically abused. Not sure if kneeling down for 20 minutes could lead to abuse, but it was definitely unwarranted.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

They knelt outside the Tokyo Metro Government Building!? Wow, too bad someone didn't get a photo of that - it must have looked strange...

12 ( +12 / -0 )

This is fairly par for the course in Japanese high schools, and the punishment of 'kneeling for 20 minutes' doesn't seem particularly harsh. I am guessing there is significantly more not being reported here, as is usually the case with these types of Japanese news stories.

Seiza is a form of corporal punishment. Plain and simple, while you may think it isnt harsh it IS against the law.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

Seiza is not a form of corporal punishment, it is the formal way of sitting. While it is painful for the untrained, it can't be considered the same as beating, for example.

20 ( +27 / -8 )

And so they should.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Make the teacher kneel for 20 minutes and apologize to the students. Japanese prisons make you kneel (in solitary confinement) as punishment.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

I don't think there's anything wrong nor harsh with this punishment.

There's no need to have an inquiry as to why the other teachers didn't intervene.

5 ( +19 / -15 )

Seiza is not a form of corporal punishment,

In Japanese schools seiza is used as a form of punishment and IS illegal. It is considered a form of corporal punishment!

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Never kneel before another man. This is wrong on so many different levels.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

So what was this educator trying to teach through the use of this punishment? That he has power over his students? That physical abuse is an acceptable of social behaviour modification? If he had any professionalism, wouldn't he want to use the opportunity to engage students intellectually and have them critically consider how their actions impact others involved in the field trip, rather than a lesson that just invokes anger and resentment?

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Teaching a lesson.

Don't see anything wrong with that.

If it were my kids, I'd let it ride.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

96!?

The high number tells me something more is going on.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

I think the teacher was on the right track by having the students reflect on their bad behaviour. Having them sit for 20 minutes in silence instead of kneeling would have covered his posterior, though.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

The teacher should have done it with them to cover his ass

Seiza is a type of sitting in schools and is not seen as corporal punishment but dogeza is.

As long as it is just kneeling and not on your hands and knees, it's a good way to meditate and reflect on your decisions.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

So why were 96 students late?

16 ( +17 / -1 )

This was not punishment for bad behaviour, it was abuse. The teacher more or less says so himself; he made them kneel not to discipline them, not to give them something to think about, not to install order, not to stop them growing into freeters/neets - but because he was annoyed. Maybe he needs counselling for anger management, but he should not be in charge of kids until he learns to control his own emotions.

Kneeling on tatami or a cushion for five minutes can be agonising if you're not used to it (and most young people today aren't). Twenty minutes on hard tiles would be torture.

If it were one of my kids, I think I'd be baying for blood.

-12 ( +9 / -20 )

The BOE should be deciding how to reward this teacher.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

It doesn't bother me. Seems like a pretty good lesson to me. I have no objections. And before you jump on me, I was an abused kid, so I know very well what harsh punishments are. This was an easy punishment.

When I lived in Kyoto, I knew craftsmen, whom I was trying to learn from, who would kneel for 2 or 3 hours at a time while working. They seemed perfectly comfortable to me. I, on the other hand, was not, but I did get better at it. 20 minutes is barely to be considered.

Frankly, I applaud the teacher. Too many kids these days are growing up with no respect, no discipline and no manners. That teacher has far more patience than I do.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

I hate it when people are late. I make it a habit to show up 10-15 min early anytime I handle my business.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Seiza is a type of sitting in schools and is not seen as corporal punishment

@odeman

It is actually a bit of a gray area which apparently depends on where the line is drawn.

Japan's school education law (学校教育法) prohibits corporal punishment (体罰), but does not explicitly define it, nor does it mention that seiza is illegal per se (the same applies to dogeza).

According to the Japanese education ministry's guidelines, corporal punishment includes punishment that inflicts physical pain, and may include maintaining a certain posture such as seiza or standing erect over a prolonged period of time (from the ministry of education website: "児童生徒に肉体的苦痛を与えるようなもの(正座・直立等特定の姿勢を長時間にわたって保持させる等").

So the question here is whether 20 minutes would be considered 'prolonged,' and whether the students endured pain in the process.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I think its just a light punishment and as I observed now a days with the high school students in Japan, it is getting more terrible and to discipline them is for their own good and not for the selfish act of the teacher.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

I hate it when people are late. I make it a habit to show up 10-15 min early anytime I handle my business.

Five minutes early is actually the ideal time. Anything more places some pressure on the person you are meeting to start early, when they may have other things that need taken care of.

That said, getting to the location 10-15 minutes early is good, just don't go inside until five minutes before.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Hopefully the lesson is learned. If you dont want to kneel in front of a building for 20 minutes, don't be late.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Just had a look at what the vernacular is saying about this.

More detailed reports say that the students were sent off in groups to tour Tokyo Tower and six other places, and told not to be late back. Some groups didn't get back 'in time', though there is no indication of how late they were - two minutes, two hours?.

There could be lots of reasons any given group of kids moving around Tokyo could be delayed. If one kid in the group was lagging, should the whole group be punished for waiting for him? Rewarded for leaving him alone in the middle of Tokyo and rushing back to teacher?

The school has determined that this was illegal, have apologised to the parents of the kids, and are considering what to do with the teacher.

http://breaking-news.jp/2015/07/11/020597

4 ( +9 / -5 )

I think the most interesting thing about this whole affair is...

the students complied.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I was forced to sit 20 minutes seiza style during tea ceremony at my high school and it didn't kill me! And I'm a foreigner. Seriously as a teacher I can understand his frustration! My students at some high schools especially Tokyo night high schools have no respect at all. Last year at my hoikuen (pre school ) some boys had been warned by me twice for grabbing my boobs and trying to touch me. They were 5years old. When the head master found out it was the third time she grabbed them and pulled them into her office and yelled at them what seemed like forever. She made them apoligize then when they were crying and asking when they could go eat lunch she said they wouldnt get lunch. I found out the following week that they didn't get lunch for the whole week! They apologized with senserity and there were no issues ever again like that. It was a private school but still governed by the education ministry so I'm surprised! She's still headmaster so I assume the kids parents agreed with the punishment! It's hard being a teacher these days! Especially when parents aren't doing their jobs either!

15 ( +17 / -2 )

Seems like a fairly light punishment. I sat seiza for 1 hour at 30 weeks pregnant but the only issue I had was tingly legs when I stood up. I think these students should be able handle 20 minutes on tile. If it was on glass or jagged rocks, then there would be a reason to complain.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Amazing how many people here are ok with child abuse.

-6 ( +11 / -16 )

My students at some high schools especially Tokyo night high schools have no respect at all. Last year at my hoikuen (pre school ) some boys had been warned by me twice for grabbing my boobs and trying to touch me. They were 5years old.

They were 5 years old!!! Bit of a difference between them and high school boys being disrespectful! I think its disgraceful they were then refused lunch for a week! Do their parents know? They should be told.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Amazing how many people here are ok with child abuse.

I see what you're getting at. Still, I think it unfair to lump the tough love posters with with others who find the teacher's conduct ok. That is, the latter do not necessarily view 20 minutes of seiza as abuse.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"KNEEL translation?" sit at attention... Japanese kids do this for hours during ceremonies, lectures, etc. The teacher's (teachers) judgement is in question (hastily calling for a period of reflection). Timing is everything.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Kudos, @Sensato. This is the kind of thing where people can squabble until they're blue in the face but until someone goes to the original law nothing is going to get resolved.

tideofiron JUL. 12, 2015 - 08:59AM JST If you're a teacher, the only way to really make sure you keep your job is to just stop caring and let the kids do whatever the hell they want. It wasn't the fact he made them do seiza that got him in trouble. It's all about feelings these days. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong - you call out students on something and make them feel bad and you're the bad guy. No one will support you.

Glenn Roses JUL. 12, 2015 - 09:20AM JST I think its just a light punishment and as I observed now a days with the high school students in Japan, it is getting more terrible and to discipline them is for their own good and not for the selfish act of the teacher

As far as "punishments" I've seen in Japan, I would agree this is fairly minor, but I would say there is something seriously wrong with a teacher who only knows how to discipline high school students with corporal punishment. These are students who are psychologically developed enough to have a concept of cause/effect and choice/consequence. Hell, in another time these people would be judged to be adult enough to send to war to die for Japan. So if a teacher can't make them understand that being late is bad without corporal punishment, they need retraining by their BOE. And if the retraining doesn't stick, they need to get out of teaching.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Corporal punishment? Everyting an adult does to children these days someone has to complain about. Dis da reason dat kids today are so spoiled

1 ( +6 / -5 )

That's a prison punishment, and a bullying tactic.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

When xo many people are ordered tto sit Chakuiza not seiiza Refer Sahou books

20 more minuites late. because of teacher

0 ( +2 / -2 )

First, I'm not complaining. Second, I have dealt with selfish, unruly kids.

And third, I have found simply asserting submission is only a half measure. After they have submitted, then it is time to teach.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I thought students are polite. They could yell and insult the teacher but just late.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

This wasn't teaching the kids of importance of being on time, this was teaching them the Eric Cartman importance of respecting this teacher's Authoritar.

If you REALLY want somebody to learn the importance of being on time, you leave when you are supposed to leave, if they are late, they miss out.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

First, he should have had them stand at attention for 15 minutes - then tell them in 5 minutes afterward, "How would you like it if the person who had to wait for you always had to stand around for 15 minutes like you all just did? No fun right? That is why you should not be late without a good reason... in fact, aim to be at an appointment 5 minutes before!"; obviously the guy is unable to verbalize, stimulate the students' thinking and communicate. He can do Seiza and meditate but likely he like all other petty bureaucrat-minded automatons (like the nine other "colleagues" standing around) will not get it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I wouldn't have obeyed that teacher's order to kneel.

Everyone in my junior high school gym class was forced to run for at least 30 minutes by the regular gym teacher because the majority of the students in my class were being noisy and disruptive the day before when we had a substitute teacher. I told the gym teacher I was not being disruptive ( true ) but he told me to shut up and run. I refused and was taken to the principal's office. The principal told me to go run with the rest of the class. I refused. For awhile I was known as the kid who wouldn't run in Mr. Jerkoff's gym class.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Of course you wouldn't obey that order Serrano. You seem like the type that would be late to a function yet not have the inner consistent discipline to know that by being late, you are at fault. I wonder what other things you have weasels out of, and if you've ever taken responsibility over doing something wrong, or just a master of excuses and proud of being a rebel against not authority, but inner discipline, if you ever even had any or even better yet, ever even subscribed to the idea of having one at all.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

The teacher called my name out loud in front of all my classmates and should be punished and now these kids are punished for being late and the only punishment is to knee for 20 minutes. Hmmmm.where is the punishment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Another teacher in Japan deciding to take the law into their own hands and dole out corporal punishment. There definitely needs to be more than teachers are allowed to do in terms of discipline in general in schools and/or school related events, but the teacher doing it him or herself, whether it's this, the guy fingerprinting a whole class when one student stole something, showing videos they NEVER should, making them bury kittens in the yard, etc., should easily be punished first by firing, then stripping them of qualifications (if they have any), and possibly jail time for abuse.

For example, before this type of field trip, if they do not already then they should have signed parental permission allowing them to cancel the trip or cut it early if they deem students to be causing problems that could put them and others in danger or affect people around them. Then, if the students are constantly late, warn them that the trip will be cut short, then if late still, cut it short. Period. THAT will teach them the importance of being on time far more than a rogue teacher doling out corporal punishment, as being late constantly for work or other things in life will result in their termination from jobs or losing out as well.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

My sympathies are with the teacher.

@cleo

The school has determined that this was illegal, have apologized to the parents of the kids, and are considering what to do with the teacher.

Actually, based on your linked article, it was considered "inappropriate" 不適切, not "illegal" 違法.

While there are reasons why people playing in Tokyo might be late, apparently over 60% (96/156) of them are and that's a significant problem.

@katsu78

As far as "punishments" I've seen in Japan, I would agree this is fairly minor, but I would say there is something seriously wrong with a teacher who only knows how to discipline high school students with corporal punishment.

On the other hand, as you say they are at a certain level of psychological development. They are way past the age when they should have figured out being late was not a good idea. If they en masse hadn't figured it out by now perhaps there is a case for saying it has to be learnt the hard way.

@gaijinfo

If you REALLY want somebody to learn the importance of being on time, you leave when you are supposed to leave, if they are late, they miss out.

Apparently over 60% of them are late. If he leaves them, he can be accused of abandoning his duties, and if even one of them gets an accident ... oh crap.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

You seem like the type that would be late to a function yet not have the inner consistent discipline to know that by being late, you are at fault. I wonder what other things you have weasels out of, and if you've ever taken responsibility over doing something wrong, or just a master of excuses

Seems to me Serrano pointed out he was not guilty of what the teacher was trying to punish him for. He was not late for anything, not weaselling out of anything, not making excuses - just refusing to be punished for something he didn't do. Good on him.

A similar thing happened to my son at elementary school. The kids were told to line up in order of height, which put him near the back of the line, away from the teacher. A couple of boys near him, thinking the teacher couldn't see, started acting up, jumping around, pushing other kids out of line. Without checking what was going on, the teacher ordered everyone in the back end of the line to run five times round the school playground. So basically most of the kids were punished for the crime of being taller than average. It was lazy, irresponsible, unfair and ineffective 'discipline' that had the head teacher fending calls from a horde of irate parents.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

This was nothing special at my time from Elementary school to High School. I am also the one punished due to late or something long. Kneeling is also very light punishment too. We have many traditional ways in Japan. We learn what we should not and should be many from teachers that time as well as from our parents. Then we grow up as responsible Japanesea with polite manner. I believe that there is less teacher does this, and less teacher can this due to many selfish Japanese culture what recently comes up. Teacher has less responsibility, parents push their education and decipline responsibility to school, we donot care about other person's kids, etc., what I concern a lots. Japan and Japanese are built by social education tradition what we are loosing. Therefore, I like This teacher's attitude. I hope everyone support this kind of teachers without becoming Monster Patents. *Monster Parents=selfish and put all of responsibility to teacher and school then complaine a lots. Also, this colum make me remind. Thanks.

1 ( +6 / -6 )

Kneeing for 20 minutes on pavement is taibatsu pure and simple if you read the law above. It could cause permanent knee and possibly back injuries. This lousy teacher ought to fired and made to pay for any physical damage the students suffered.

-1 ( +5 / -5 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki JUL. 12, 2015 - 12:50PM JST On the other hand, as you say they are at a certain level of psychological development. They are way past the age when they should have figured out being late was not a good idea. If they en masse hadn't figured it out by now perhaps there is a case for saying it has to be learnt the hard way.

When I talk about psychological development, I'm talking about students learning values by having the values explained to them. They have the psychological development to understand the ideas because they're psychologically developed enough to take abstract concepts and imagine how they apply to real life, particularly their own lives, and make conscious changes to how they behave. That they're psychologically developed enough to be able to be taught not to be late doesn't mean they should magically acquire the idea "You should not be late," from the folds of their brains when they hit puberty. That's not gained through psychological development automatically, it's a cultural construct, different in different cultures. It must be learned. You say they should have figured it out... how do you know that? Does their school have a moral education curriculum where timeliness was unit 6 taught just before this outing?

If students haven't learned something on the time frame we expect them to, we can throw a giant tantrum at them for not living up to our expectations, or we can teach them. To just assume that because students don't know what we think they should know they must be refusing to learn it and therefore need corporal punishment, that's a very lazy, irresponsible, and dangerously unprofessional way for a teacher to think.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

based on your linked article, it was considered "inappropriate" 不適切, not "illegal" 違法

The article I linked states clearly 男性教師の行為は体罰にあたる (The teacher's action amounted to corporal punishment). Corporal punishment is illegal.

While there are reasons why people playing in Tokyo might be late, apparently over 60% (96/156) of them are and that's a significant problem

If a handful or kids were late, I'd guess they were mucking around somewhere. Well over half of them being late (and we aren't told anywhere how late) suggests that maybe they were given insufficient time to cover the course they were told to cover? (If you have any experience of these school 'field trips', you'll know there's very little 'play' involved). There were teachers placed at strategic points to make sure they did visit all the places they were told to visit, so they couldn't make up time by missing anywhere out. There was a significant problem, but not necessarily on the part of the kids. And if that were the case, the teacher would be even more wrong because he would be punishing the kids for his own lack of preparation.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@JTDan

I'm surprised that you're surprised the students complied. Teachers all over the world are hugely powerful figures in the eyes of their pupils. No one will contradict them.

When I was nine, I was knocked out cold with a punch to the back of the head by an angry teacher. I was rushed to hospital and had heart and brain scans and a series of blood tests to find out why I'd "fainted". Neither I nor any of the thirty-four other kids in the room said a word about what really happened...,

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Group punishment is common, everyone is a part of the group and everyone gets punished as a group. This has been the method of Japanese "education" for decades, many older teachers see this as their responsibility to "teach" these kids to become part of society, to be a part of the group, and to be able to function within in it.

This teacher may have a license to teach, but he is not an educator.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It would seemed like an eternity and probably extremely rough on their knees- its outside on rocky ground. Were 96 students late?, more likely only a few late and excessive punishment of the innocent.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Kneeling in seiza for 20 mins or more is perfectly normal in many situations. If you are not used to it its uncomfortable but it doesn't cause injury. The upright sitting position tends to make you awake and aware, hence a good position to meditate or do active recovery between exercises. If a teacher in a martial arts dojo had the students sit in seiza for 20 mins while explaining or demonstrating something there would be no outcry. Its expected. So while it may have been out of the ordinary for this teacher to have these students sit in seiza in this location, its hardly equivalent to corporal punishment or physical abuse. Dial it down, people. A generation ago, this kind of outrage would have seemed entirely ridiculous - and thats not because somehow our elders all thought physical abuse of minors was acceptable. They didn't. But sometimes you have to be out of your comfort zone to learn a lesson.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

its hardly equivalent to corporal punishment

The school says it is equivalent to corporal punishment.

sometimes you have to be out of your comfort zone to learn a lesson.

Well the teacher is probably feeling out of his comfort zone right now. I wonder what lesson he will learn.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Look, the students were forced to knee on tiles. Get it. Tiles. The teacher apparently did not ask if any students had prior injuries that could be excaserbated by kneeling for twenty minutes. You cannot compare this to a martial arts dojo. I do not believe martial arts dojos have tile floors. But if they do you can always op out as a paying customer. If you a disability I presume the dojo would work around it. These were not dojo students training in the martial arts. They were ordinary kids whose health was put at risk. This is not what reputable martial arts dojo would I believe. At any rate, you are in martial arts dojo as a matter of choice and not because you were not on time.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

If my kids would have been in that group of latecomers without good reason,I would have applauded the teacher. 20 minutes of seiza should help bring their thoughts together and remind them they are to become responsible members of the society. You can get fired from being 20 minutes late without reason from many companies.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Why is this even news?

He's a good teacher.

Many kids these days are rude, cheeky, disrespectful and bad-mannered.

Any teacher who tries to instill a bit of discipline has my support.

...use the opportunity to engage students intellectually and have them critically consider how their actions impact others involved in the field trip...

That's funny!

3 ( +8 / -5 )

You can get fired from being 20 minutes late without reason from many companies.

Ignoring the fact that being late would be the reason, no you can't. If it were a repeated problem, yes. But not one time.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The reason why everone is latethesedays is because of keitai. They think they can call and make excuses.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It's amazing how many people here think this is child abuse. Maybe it's not the best way to teach the kids to be on time, but hardly something to get worked up over.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

hahahaha .... there are alotta dayum comments on this "I S S U E"

i just wanna know .... ""who snitched on the teacher and why were those kids late in the first place?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yup, agreed, too many unknown facts to judge this story.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If my kids would have been in that group of latecomers without good reason,I would have applauded the teacher.

If it were my kids I would have slammed dunked the teacher for using a disciplinary tactic that is 100% against regulations.

Reason or not, if you are attempting to teach someone something using a carrot and a stick is useful when dealing with animals, with people other methods, not abuse, are known to work better.

These students are the future of Japan, and in a sense the teacher is bullying them into submission. It is a pattern that they will use in their future as well.

Every been late to work? Next time sit in front of your co-workers seiza style for 20 minutes to reflect on your tardiness.

Not cool huh? It's ok for HS students but not for adults. BS!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

The kids should consider it practice for funerals. I spent longer than 20 minutes sitting seiza-style at funerals. Haven't all of you Japan experts?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The kids should consider it practice for funerals. I spent longer than 20 minutes sitting seiza-style at funerals. Haven't all of you Japan experts?

No, my family sat in chairs at the temple when all the guests came to pay their respects. I've been here over 3 decades, am a naturalized Japanese citizen and seiza is as unnatural for me after all these years as a Japanese person speaking English, some do it some dont.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The fact that he was able to get that many students to do what he says and all at the same time is amazing. It is hard enough to handle a class of 10-30 students.

When I was in high school, playing sports in the U.S., I and my teammates were forced to do much worse things for losing a game and/or making mistakes. None of that ever appeared in the news.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

They had to sit on concrete,,, not on tatami or carpet, No cushion

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's corporal punishment, bottom line, and the school knows it, and has admitted it. It's no wonder there is such flagrant abuse in this society given how many posters seem to think that physical abuse and bullying is good for these kids.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

corporal punishment I went to a private school that gave out corporal punishment for students that misbehaved, I for one was punished on more than one occassion. I have mixed feelings on this as, I remember my first straping accross the butt, did it teach me a lesson and other students a lesson, yes and no, It taught most of us to not get caught easily the next time, but you get conditioned to this form of punishment in that while it hurts for a small period of time it doesnt really bother you much the second third .... times, it even becomes a competition on who gets the most stripes on the butts LOL there are far better forms of discipline, like removing privileges, free time, things you enjoy with academic/verbal detention. nothing more annoying than having to do written assignments when you could be out with your buddies playing sport, out with you girl, etc

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I've never been to a funeral, only 法事, and we've sat on chairs every time.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The students should go bone docx knees and legs could damaged

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Everyone is different, so this form of punishment could possibly hurt some students but not others. So that is the main problem with it if you think about it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Was this in direct sun in the middle of summer?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Making them bow at 90 degrees with hands to sides would be worse.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Everyone is diferent is not excuse to let all sit on concrete floor. Try ro sit on same way for 1 min and feel your knees and front of your legs.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Group punishment is just plain wrong. If 96 students are late then the organization is at fault. Supervision was lacking obviously.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Is kneeling corporal punishment? No. Is it humiliating? Yes. That's why it's unacceptable.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I have seen teachers in Japan mete out much worse punishment than this, namely in sports (scathing verbal abuse and physical punishment) and nobody, including myself, intervened.

I hope that in the future you do intervene. Depending on the severity of the punishment, of course. I think that many foreign teachers, worried about their job security, have looked the other way in their teaching careers. I know I have. But I finally decided to speak up. The fact is that many people may have to suffer because of being too "heavy-handed." Not only could the student(s) be injured, but the teacher(s) involved could suffer from being fired. This, in turn, affects everyone's families.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Listening to my wife's stories about going to school in Kansai, 20 minutes seems pretty mild...Guess times have changed. Growing up in rural Arizona, pretty much all of my teachers had a beautiful hand made oak or maple paddles (with luxurious dark hardwood handles, and frequently a message like "ouch" drilled in for less air resistance.) The looks of horror I would receive in NYC when talking about those paddles were just priceless!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I just watched the story on this on the news. It turns out that the law (学校教育法) specifically states that corporal punishment is not allowed, and that making kids sit in seiza for extended periods of time is corporal punishment. Combine this with the fact that the teacher made them do this on hard concrete tiles, that weren't firmly butted up against each other but rather had gaps between them (they showed them on tv), and it was plainly not allowed by law.

That puts the teacher firmly in the wrong.

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Japan is not in Arizona and example there do not apply in Japan. Must be a very rich school. Oak and Maples are very very expensive in rural area. in dry dry desert with bare field..

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"According to the board of education, the 35-year-old teacher said he was annoyed with the students who were late for a field trip and ordered them to kneel on the tiles for 20 minutes to discipline them, Fuji TV reported."

So by running late even more, makes it better? Isn't the teacher being an oxymoron for making both the teacher and the students (the other students) wait even longer?

Stupid teacher with stupid punishment.

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96 out of 156? Quite possible someone passed bum scoop on show time! Guess they weren't too late if they had 20 min to spare for punishment. I am all for discipline but that teacher went about it all wrong. It is possible that he is abusive to students more than is necessary at school.

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What a big deal.. I Don't see what is the deal.. This things should not be consider as news...

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Back in the old days, it was quite normal to get smacked around by teachers but we never thought it as a violence, rather consider it as a guidance. 20min kneeling doesn't sound too much of punishment at all.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

So by running late even more, makes it better? Isn't the teacher being an oxymoron for making both the teacher and the students (the other students) wait even longer?

Though one must acknowledge the downsides, there's a strong case to be made that punishment is best dealt immediately after the wrongdoing - it helps increase the association.

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All the more they must have gotten late for the field trip

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20 min seiza is a cake walk for anyone here. I would welcome harsher discipline, it's obviously needed.

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@tictactogoJUL. 13, 2015 - 07:01PM JST Back in the old days, it was quite normal to get smacked around by teachers but we never thought it as a violence, rather consider it as a guidance. 20min kneeling doesn't sound too much of punishment at all.

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I don't know how old days in what country you are mentioning. So back in old days in Japan in late 1940's, Teachers in HS, no taibatsu. Students could use their 30 cm ruler to attack back if we get hit. Teachers were more interested in giving additional homeworks.

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Some students went early Maybe they know temper of the teacher?

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Can you imagine the suffering of these students....... 20 minutes without communing with that precious iPhone....

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@toshiko

Students could use their 30 cm ruler to attack back if we get hit.

It sure doesn't sound like a "disciplined student" and I don't believe it was a common student behaviror. The physical punishment by teachers was quite common until early 90s and it was much harsher before then. Students were dared to question what teachers say. Based on my personal experience in Japanese Junior HS, the teacher ordered few bully students, who hid one student's pencil case, to line up in front of the class and scolded and punched in their faces few times one by one. No question nor complaints from their parents and those students stopped bullying, it was early 90s.

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Not sure who amongst you have children or who have taught in schools here and in other countries. Also, not sure if all of you understand what the media is reporting.

The media chooses and reports but one out of hundreds of different news worthy and not news worthy events and occurrences. Most often it chooses a subject that will get attention and will become an issue for the readers or viewers. I am sure you are all aware of the media and its workings.

Regardless of what parents and those critical of the educational system may say, all student problems with and of “behavior” starts with and at the home. Children primarily "reflect" their parents and other family members they "live" with their “habits”, unless changed by their peers or some outside influence.

For example, I have worked with children who grew up in foster homes and institutions. When they are not guided and supervised by the leaders or counselors there, their “habits” "reflect" what the children themselves have said are what their parents "do" or "say" and "react" when they were at "home". They follow the "routine" at their foster homes, but once outside that environment, they go back to their "habits" formed at "home". Sadly it is not what parents “say” to their children to say and do, but what they actually say and “do”.

Just as society enforces social behavior outside of their homes, institutions need to enforce some behavioral rules. That differs with every society and culture. The manner, in which it is enforced, is another matter. Depending on one's perspective and values, it will always vary. The problem is that it also depends on situation and circumstances surrounding the problem to and at which we were not actually there to witness first hand. Second hand information is difficult to deal with.

Sadly, also that it involved so many students and not just those that may have caused the problem/s. If the other teachers allowed that to happen, there must have been a very powerful reason why.

However, the important issue here is what the report obviously missed but could have addressed. The deeper problem appears to be with "parenting" that brought about this problem, and not the teacher. It is a social problem and not just a systemic one.

Who is addressing that issue or problem?

How would you address these problems?

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tictoe: i was writing how I protected me from a PE teacher who hated me.
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@toshiko You said teachers back in late 1940s used to punish misbehaved students by giving more homeworks and there was no physical punishment. You also said you defended yourself with your 30cm ruler when your PE teacher hit you. Do you not see a contradiction here?

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tictactoe: other girls dkd not get scolded. I was just practiccing newly acquired free speech. This PE teacher hated me as my free speech irritated her Other nice teacher told me. She did not know no one is supposed to scold me in our girls HS. Not to be bothered her, I showed how to use a ruler to hit like katana and handcopied our old katana book pages. I wrote me not all. It was, a private girls jr sr HS my neighbor lord families donated

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Kneeling has always been a form of penance. 20 minutes is a long time on hard tile. As a bureaucrat and a soft liberal I'm against this.

As a parent and a teacher, give that guy a pat on the back. Hell yeah. Although his actions may seem severe it's nothing compared to losing a job in the future. Be on time. This 20 minutes of penance does not even compare to the loss of job, which leads to a loss of family and home.

Most companies will never go hard on an employee who is early and on time everyday but they will quickly take notice of a late bird and put that person behind the eight ball.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Here is one more goog reason not to have children. You do not have to worry about thugs like the teacher in questions.

In any other civilized country the teacher would have been fired. Those of you sporting this lowlife are helping to perpetuate the culture of physical and mental abuse in Japanese schools.

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Nothing wrong in punishment. School must put poster like "Please do it in America" at gate.

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@Toshiko

I find it difficult to comprehend what you are trying to say, but "scolding" is not a physical punishment.

This is what you said before.

So back in old days in Japan in late 1940's, Teachers in HS, no taibatsu. Students could use their 30 cm ruler to attack back if we get hit. Teachers were more interested in giving additional homeworks.

Your statement here imposes a false impression as if there never was a physical punishment by teachers at school and students were allowed to physically fight back when it did.

Speaking of a ruler, one teacher in my elementary school used to use his ruler to smack hard on students' heads when they forget their homeworks. One time, he hit smacked one girl student's head so hard and his plastic ruler was broken into half. I have so many episodes during my education in Japan between mid-80s until early 90s, not only one school but in several schools, and I heard about the worst from my parents when they were young.

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will it make them think about being late next time? we will see.

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@tictactoe: I was in Middle school that later bevsmr Jr and Sr HS after GHQ suggested change in Japanese school system. Plastic was not invented yet. Wooden rulers. Girls and boys were still went to different schools. We still had Irough custom of WW ii time school life. Coed was ordered bt GHQ and in 1951 Prefecture IU had to accept at ;east 1 girl.

I wrote my experience. Are you suggesting I write a lie? it was 1945 to 1951 my experience.

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Well its a little weird to make 96 high school students kneel for being late for a field trip. In south louisiana in the late 80s and early 90s the kneeling punishment was given to students in school. When I was in the 6th grade I received the kneeling punishment on a few occasions. It can really teach kids discipline. But on the other hand it should only be if kids are being bad. I remember I was acting silly in music class. The teacher who was normally a very nice woman. Made me roll up my jeans and kneel on concrete facing a brick wall with my hands on top of my head! Ouch!! But to make matters worse I was punished for recess in front of my peers or classmates in which is really embarrassing!!

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