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© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.Threats keep dolphin protest out of Taiji
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CapnSinbad
The people of Taiji don't give two hoots about the death of dolphins. They scratch their heads in bewilderment over all the hoopla. It's nearly impossible to get Japanese in large numbers to see the alternate reality of a situation in Japan especially when pointed out by outsiders. You could no more convince most Japanese of the offensiveness of the dolphin hunt than you could convince them that smoking is bad for them: they do what they do as they have always done and ain't no one gonna get them to do otherwise.
KeikoTokyo
Doesn't seem to be keeping all protestors away;
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100904-1.html
neogreenjapan
It is true that the whale meat is contaminated to a certain extent but people still eat it. The mercury levels are not THAT dangerously high - there are still health benefits of the meat and blubber, if the intake is limited. Health benefits of whale meat is that it is rich in poly-unsaturated fats, and essential vitamins and minerals, such as selenium. To be so gullible to think that limited dolphin meat will kill is you is rather sad and hillarious.
liefjapan
neogreenjapan-Regarding the mercury level, yes, dolphin meat contains more mercury. Japanese gov't has certin indications about the maximum consumption per day, especially for kids and pregnant women.
alladin
So that is how it is. Taiji fishermen make threats to keep protesters away and the Japanese polices don`t do anything to stop them. The Japanese police is just as bad as the Taiji police because the are not doing anything to enforce the law of protection on the people that are in Japan, citizen or not. So sad.
neogreenjapan
I hear dolphin meat has lots of mercury. It was recorded that the people of Taiji has much higher levels of mercury than people from other parts of Japan. But on the other hand despite the high levels of mercury people say the people of Taiji are fine according to tests carried out by the Japanese government. Then others say that Japan is covering up the real facts regarding mercury. If the people of Taiji say they are fine, then I think that's what matters most. But I hear dolphin meat was taken off the school menu due to concerns of mercury. What to believe?
Gurukun
Sactions? What?
KeikoTokyo
Gurukun;"I still don't see where outsiders have the right to dictate what they do in Taiji."
Then what right does the Japanese government have to impose sanctions on other countries because it does not like what they do? Is that not interfering or trying to dictate to other countries?
Gurukun
SmithinJapan-I'm not saying protest should 'not be allowed." What I'm saying is, why protest at all. People say that the killings are 'brutal' 'barbaric' ect. But, in who's eyes is it 'barbaric or brutal? Obviously it is not barbaric to the people of Taiji. My point being, again, before slamming a tradition of another country, people may want to look at thier own country before throwing stones.
OssanAmerica
The number of documented cases of dogs rescuing and saving humans around the world is infintely greater in number than the few undocumented reports of dolphins saving humans. But that doesn't seem to stop your country from eating them. Why is that?
OssanAmerica
No they're not. They're just regular people working and supporting their families as theeir parents and grandparents have done. As for dolphins seeking vengeance I hope not cause there are alot of cows, pigs,chickens, lambs, turkeys etc etc who would all want my ass.
OssanAmerica
Not at all. This isn't a matter of what's right or wrong. It's a matter of common sense and putting prejudice and bias aside to understand the J-POV, that they are reacting just as the folks of any small village in any other country would.
The ultranationalists would be irrelevant if these "foreigners" didn't start a campaign tpo "force" the village to stop, and creating the image that the enmtire world is against them. In truth, it's not, the vast majority of the world couldn't care less. Just because you don't like the ultranationalists (I don't either) is no reason to support the morons who are giving them cause, unecessarily in my book, to get involved.
OssanAmerica
Sorry but you're another one without a clue. Those "nationalists" who are on a par with the KKK and Aryan Nation as far as I'm concerned wouldn't be in the picture at all if it were not for exactly what I described; " A Bunch of GD foreigners commin here and tell'n us what to do!" That you can't see this from the J-POV is testament to your prejudice. As for my being "anti-American" that's pretty funny.
12_year_sensei
Seems like squashing freedom of speech with death threats is the latest "traditional Japanese custom".
yabusama
Even entertaining the thought of a westerner coming into this country to "educate" the locals and expecting success is a waste of time. I'd have more respect for these fishermen and their "culture" if they would just come out and give the real reasons why this dolphin hunt continues. $$$$$$$$. It's not as if these fishermen can do anything else. It's their livelihood. Right or wrong, no matter how detrimental their actions may be they will fight as long as there are foreigners pointing the finger and calling them the bad guy.
As far as the police doing anything to prevent any violent action being taken against a peaceful protest, why should they? The police support the ultra right wing movement in this country.
This is Japan not the U.S., Canada, U.K., Australia, etc... you know countries where they actually value, appreciate, and practice freedom of speech. People should stop telling the Japanese how to think and act because you'd have more success putting your head through a 3" thick brick wall then getting them to see the sense of your argument.
Anybody else find the double meaning in this quote?
smithinjapan
Zenny11: "Ric Barry made his movie and it got shown, he had his say. Time to let the movie speak for itself no need to push the issue."
It got shown in tiny repetoire cinemas, edited by the Japan film board, disclaimers added as well as mosaic blurs, and was cancelled in pretty much all planned theatres by the same ultra rightists who have no clue what the movie is about. What's more, in at least one place it was shown it was shown back to back with a pro-whaling movie, which is fine, but which was obviously intended to counter the documentary in question. So, I'd say he HASN'T really had his say objectively at all, and until the police stop these freaks in the black trucks from not allowing people to do as they choose, his say is being very, very much silenced. The only plus is that all the negative media the film has gotten in Japan by people who refuse to see it (or have watched five minutes and judged it wholly) is still just that -- media attention -- and has garnerned a lot of interest in the movie and subject as a whole.
smithinjapan
Gurukin: I meant to add that I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing by saying some dolphins are aggressive. You are correct, actually, despite a lot of people on this thread saying contrary -- there are some dolphins who attack people... and it's never really clear why. My sister, in fact, once had a dolphin hit her pretty hard in Australia, while they swam around and played with all her friends. We had a good laugh about it, but no one could figure out why it only attacked HER.
Regardless, your point only stands to back up my own a little bite more -- humans, and in particular the right wing nuts that prevented this peaceful demonstration -- are FAR more likely to cause violence on other people than a dolphin... FAR more likely. Was your point that dolphins aren't quite the majestic creatures some have said they are?
smithinjapan
Gurukun: " However, I still don't see where outsiders have the right to dictate what they do in Taiji."
No one has the right to dictate what another does, except where the people in question are doing something against the law, be they outsiders or 'insiders'. The ultra-rightists are going against the law, but instead some on here praise them for it and say the protest would be harmful. Instead, I say let them protest, and let people decide for themselves if they think the dolphin hunt is right or wrong. The police suggesting that the director of the Cove and other conservationists not come goes against this spirit because they didn't have the guts to tell the ultra-nationalists THEY are using force to stop people from having access to alternative view points. As I said previously, if the protesters actually bought into Ossanultra's alternate reality and began forcing the boats to stay at port, or grabbing dinner plates that might have dolphin on them from people's mouths, fine, arrest them.
Until then, saying that this protest should 'not be allowed', or that it's a good thing the ultra-nationalists prevented it -- it is YOU who are forcing your opinion on others, and no one else. As the case here is, there is no difference of opinion being allowed.
dontpanic
Gurukun - "who says that my opinions are the right ones. And who says that your opinions/feeling are the right ones."
"If that's the way they do it there, then people from the outside need to stand back and keep their nose out of something that has nothing to do with them." "I still don't see where outsiders have the right to dictate what they do in Taiji."
Well thats democracy baby. People are allowed a difference of opinion in a democracy like Japan, including the vegetarian restaurant owner mentioned above. The dolphins are not Japanese property so the people of the world also have the right and the will to express their opinions.
If people think its fine to continue a cruel practice because its a tradition and that Taiji is the only destination to come in for criticism, think again. Bear baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting, badger baiting, even bull fighting and fox hunting are all traditions either outlawed or under severe pressure because of the fear and pain inflicted on the prey animal. Its not a nationalist issue, its about putting a stop to a cruel and unnecesary practice.
Valmain
Because he is protesting for what he believes and as long as he stays within legal boundaries, I don't see any reason to stop him. It's not like he has malicious intentions or anything for the Japanese people.
Protesting != Dictation
Zenny11
I agree.
Ric Barry made his movie and it got shown, he had his say. Time to let the movie speak for itself no need to push the issue.
As for the right-wingers it is them that are blocking the protesters NOT the people from Taiji, so it is wrong to say the villagers hide behind the right-wingers.
Not many japanese like those right-wingers anyway.
Gurukun
Please don't get me wrong on this subject. I've mentioned in other threads that I love dolphins and I cringe at the video footage of Taiji. If you've seen my car, you'd understand. However, I still don't see where outsiders have the right to dictate what they do in Taiji.
Zenny11
KeikoTokyo.
Dolphins are the natural enemy of sharks, I saw a few kills while scuba-diving. Those things can swim FAAAST.
Never met anyone that been rescued by a Dolphin looks like most of the stories are based on a few incidents only. It is always I heard from someone in a pub or the friend of a friend, etc.
And yes doplhins are known to attack other doplhins and divers. They are not that friendly once you get to know their behaviour.
Example: For Flipper they used 5 females and 1 male(the females never mastered the tail-walk). Reason why they used females is that the males fight often and are scarred, males are easily identified by the scars thus they couldn't use multiple dolphins and it wouldn't have fitted with the story.
Sharks and dolphins often mistake divers for dolphins due to the up and down movement of the legs(same direction as wales and dolphins, fishes are always sideways.
Don't trust newspapers speak to scuba divers that meet them in their natural environment many encounters will never make it into the newpapers.
Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic. The subject is the Taiji dolphin hunt, not how dangerous you think dolphins are.
KeikoTokyo
Gurukun;"I don't know about you, as much as I love dolphins, I would be weary about getting into the water with a 'wild' one. They have been known to kill people as well."
Please provide even one example of this, but you cannot because there is no such example, but on the other hand the number of reports of dolphins rescuing & assisting mariners in shipwrecks, or at sea is countless, as are stories of dolphins warding off sharks around swimmer/surfers.
Nessie
The dolphins, at first reluctant, became co-operative with just a little prodding. It was not long before they were all on board.
bicultural
I guess some of those intelligent dolphins watched "The Cove"
missymoo999
Ever see the videos of how the dolphins are killed ? How their calfs see it. They let them bleed to death after slitting their throats ? Dolphins are one of the most intelligent animals on the planet.The way we slaughter animals in the usa is awful,but a frigging birthday party compared to those "traditions". It absolutely should be abolished ,and Japan is NOT the only country that does it. Its done to different breeds of dolphin in both africa and the netherlands. All of these dolphins are coming close to extinction .Its dispicable.
hokkaidoguy
Unless you count bycatches, in which case the number of marine mammals caught is in the hundreds of thousands per year, worldwide - and most of it goes unreported.
radegastt
I have searched the net for "swim with dolphins accidents" : Most probably, there has never been a report of a wild dolphin injuring a human swimmer. However, there supposedly has been some minor injuries from swimming with dolphins in tanks (in captivity) mainly by accidents not by violent behavior of the dolphin.
michaelqtodd
@Gurukun. Saying dolphins kill people was pushing things are bit too far lol. The comments by @smithinjapan are spot on.These right wing thugs seem to be able to act without impunity.Would not be surprised to find that many of them are Police or government workers enjoying their days off
cleo
I've swum with a pod of wild dolphins. It was a magic moment. Exhilarating. Not weary at all.
paulinusa
"They have been known to kill people as well."
Can you document this?
radegastt
Gurukun-""I don't know about you, as much as I love dolphins, I would be weary about getting into the water with a 'wild' one. They have been known to kill people as well."" I have never heard about that (by accident perhaps).......where and when, can you give some examples? I have swum with wild dolphins four times and it is a wonderful and outstanding experience!!!
Valmain
Not quite. A long long time ago it was fairly widespread, but now it's limited mostly to Japan, the Solomon Islands, and the Faroe Islands.
Gurukun
I don't know about you, as much as I love dolphins, I would be weary about getting into the water with a 'wild' one. They have been known to kill people as well.
Gurukun
Exactly. Human rights are a completely different issue. If people are so concerened with mercury, then don't eat it.
Gurukun
And where in the world is it okay to kill people? Countries all over this planet kill dolphins. Why is it that it's 'bad' for Taiji to do it? Because of they way they kill the dolphins, right? If that's the way they do it there, then people from the outside need to stand back and keep their nose out of something that has nothing to do with them.
radegastt
The people of Taiji are not very clever...... If they switch to "watching whales/dolphins" and "swimming with dolphins" tours and use all this publicity they would earn many times more than from killing dolphins/fishing. ......i.e. "If you come to swim with dolphins we would stop killing them" ......if this slogan attracts only 10% of all protesters, the fishermen would be rich overnight. Usual charge for "swimming with dolphins tour" is around 7000 yen/person, multiply it by 6 people in the boat and you get 42,000yen per 3~4 hours. Plus the town earns from providing accommodation, food etc. to visitors. You can't earn this through fishing...
Monkeyz
Just because something is "tradition" doesn't make it right.
But when you look at it and consider the mercury that people will consume, it really is an issue that directly affects people. Eating dolphin and whale is a public health risk, especially in a country where people are already eating a lot of seafood that contains mercury. If they could only frame the argument as "you're poisoning yourselves and your children" instead of "but the dolphins!" they might have more luck. The mercury argument is far more compelling.
smithinjapan
herefornow: "The point is Japan is supposed to be a country that guards freedom of speach/expression, and wants to be considered as a permanent member of the UNSC based on its believes -- but it simply ignores those believes because the guys in the sound trucks get mad. Simply a childish reation to this issue, which is so very common in Japan."
BINGO! Don't expect people who sympathize with the ultra-nationalists to do anything but defer this fact, though. Their usual retort in the end is, "If you don't like it, you can leave".
Anyway, well said.
paulinusa
The "they're not so intelligent" argument is nonsensical. Why don't marine parks have tuna jumping thru hoops?
smithinjapan
Ossan: "If a group of foreigners came int a small town in the United States because they didn't like what those townsfolk were doing or eating, just how long do you think it would take before the cops had to step in to keep them from getting shot?"
So your standpoint is that the shooters would be in the right; my standpoint is that they would be in the wrong. Regardless, did the police do ANYTHING at all about the threats by the ultra-nationalists (aside from warning the protesters not to come)? My guess is they did absolutely nothing at all, as is always the case. Finally, who says all the people who would have attended the demonstration are foreigners? It doesn't suggest that anywhere in the article -- it merely says 'conservationists'; unless of course you are suggesting that no Japanese is a conservationist. :)
And don't talk to me about some 'anti-Japan' agenda when you are so blindly FOR anything Japanese; I am arguing against the ultra-rightists and the lack of ability of Japanese police to do anything about it. Quite frankly I'm astounded ANYONE could agree with the ultra-nationalists tactics, unless they pilot one of the black trucks themselves.
nedinjapan
People in Taiji are not educated. However, they blindly follow wrong traditions. I think this is the job of the ministry of education to provide awareness among Japanese people in Taiji. Their level of education is as low as the most undeveloped tribes in the last century. Teach them what they need to know, minister!
cleo
The problem with that argument as an excuse for violent bloodshed is that, eventually, we all face the same 'end result'. That doesn't mean it's OK for me to go out and kill people because I think they might taste nice, or because killing them makes it easier to take their possessions off them. 'He was going to die eventually anyway' doesn't stand up in a court of law.
Gurukun
@kyoken-But the dolphin is not even close to being endagered. "Cows and pigs we eat are specifically grwon to be killed"...you say. Does it really matter if someting is raised to be killed, and killed out in the wild? The end result is the same, death.
kyoken
That argument is incorrect. The cows and pigs we eat are specifically grown to be killed and would not be alive if we would all be grass eaters. The dolphins, whale and most fish are a resource of nature that we exploit.
Gurukun
@Keiko-Point well taken. But I assume that you are not from Taiji and either is me. How can we tell Taiji to end something that we should have no say in in the first place. Americans also carry on thier traditions of Thanksgiving, but do the majority of Americans go out and hunt thier ducks and turkeys. Before throwing rocks, lets look at what we do within out own countries and traditions. Personally, I wish that Taiji wuold stop killing these animals, but who says that my opinions are the right ones. And who says that your opinions/feeling are the right ones.
MrDog
Hey, if dolphins were as intelligent as the huggers constantly claim, they would have done this by now, or at least stayed the heck away from Taiji when they realized that their buddies didn't come back when they went near there.
MrDog
No. I think they'd be biased too. You're comments points out just what I was saying. That articles like this, not just this one, but pro and anti whaling/dolphining(?) are usually presented in a biased way. News is supposed to be an unbiased source of information. Although it rarely is.
KeikoTokyo
Gurukun;"Just because Taiji carries on thier tradidtions,"
Exactly when did the 'tradition' of killing mothers & babies start in Taiji? Because all I have read states this is forbidden & will bring bad luck onto the whole town,(maybe we are seeing this bad luck through all this!)
Next when did the 'tradition' of capturing dolphins to sell to marine parks start? There is no mention of this in Taiji's history or 'traditions'. So while other villages around Japan & the rest of the world have moved on & make money from tours viewing these animals free in the ocean Taiji wants to stay in the 16th century, yet also wants 21st century advances, motor powered boats to hunt in, selling to marine parks, etc, etc...
kyoken
Come on, show a little faith in your own claims that you are ready for self sacrifice to stop the slaughter. Face the heat and see what happens.
alladin
These Taiji fishermen are just cruel evil people. I wish one day the dolphins that they are killing will jump out of the ocean and attack them with a fierce poke in their ass. They just don`t give up.
cleo
Maybe you'd consider quotes from a whalemeal restaurant owner and his customers to be less biased?
MrDog
@Valman
No. Not less valid, just more biased.
If you can't see how stupid it is to get someone who runs a vegetarian restaurant chain to comment on animal slaughter, you should go into Japanese politics.
Regarding "stab". Tell me which is more/less biased:
I think you'll find B to be unbiased, unless of course...
Tell that to the people saying that what they do in Taiji is wrong. Good point by Gurukun.
herefornow
Ossan -- Sorry but smithinjapan has it exactly right. Having to cancel peaceful activities, simply designed to spark intelligent conversation on an issue that is giving Japan a black-eye around the world, because a bunch of nationalists threatened to do something is just disgusting. And any theory you may have about what might happen in a similar situation is just a result of your blatant pro-Japan/anti-U.S. bias. And is just a red herring. The point is Japan is supposed to be a country that guards freedom of speach/expression, and wants to be considered as a permanent member of the UNSC based on its believes -- but it simply ignores those believes because the guys in the sound trucks get mad. Simply a childish reation to this issue, which is so very common in Japan.
Valmain
I completely agree. I didn't say anything about Taiji being in the wrong. My comment was about belittling people's opinions based on their occupations, but I never said that anyone was right or wrong.
kokorocloud
I agree with Ossan and Nuckin. If we can't solve this with rational talks instead of "YOU'RE WRONG" "NO, YOU ARE" flying back and forth, nothing is going to be accomplished. This will continue to look like The World vs. Japan, wherein Japan is either a victim or a barbarian and the West is a bully or a saint.
Gurukun
If you really think about it, this statement goes both ways. Just because Taiji carries on thier tradidtions, just because thier is alot of Anti this and that, it doesn't mean its wrong.
Valmain
@MrDog
Because the used the word "stab?" I hardly think that makes it biased. If they had said something like "brutally murder" or "slaughter" then that's a different story. But the word "stab" is commonly used in the media. How much nicer can they put it?? "The dolphins are gently nudged with spears until they cease to move."
So, because he runs a vegetarian restaurant his opinion is any less valid? They picked him because they wanted the opinion of someone who was at O'Barry's rally. Just because you disagree doesn't mean that his opinion is not worthwhile.
OssanAmerica
Sorry bro but as usual you're way out in left field blinded by your asnti-japan agenda. If a group of foreigners came int a small town in the United States because they didn't like what those townsfolk were doing or eating, just how long do you think it would take before the cops had to step in to keep them from getting shot? Try and put it in that perspective.
MrDog
and
Here I was thinking he was going to say something worthwhile. What a GREAT person to get to comment!
MrDog
Congratulations on yet another biased article.
smithinjapan
Ossan: "Whatever progress and good the producer and those behind the Cove accomplished by making the film and even getting it to show even in theaters in Japan goes right out the window by continuing to try and "force" the town to change their ways."
Sorry, bro. These people were on their way to hold a peaceful protest, but as is often the way in Japan, the law seems to bar peaceful protest and protect the people actually making threats -- the ultra-nationalists. The mayor of Taiji has said over and over from his office, if not from in front of the massive tarps hiding everything, that there is 'nothing to hide'; and yet here they are, again, hiding behind the ultra-nationalists. If there is truly nothing to hide, let the protesters go there and stage their protest; if the people of Taiji truly believe what they are doing is right and justified, let them continue without being embarrassed. If the protest in any way shows signs of force, arrest those responsible. Likewise arrest any ultra-nationalists who try and block it with threats and/or force.
But we all know the latter would never happen -- the J-police are more scared of the ultra-nationalists than anyone else. Again, 'tis a shame that a protest can't take place because of actual threats of force by right-wing nuts, instead of your perceived 'force' by the protesters. Even more of a shame that you guys can't see that. Not a surprise, mind you... just a shame.
Disillusioned
Not a good idea. They are crazy enough. Personally, I don't give a fat rat's if they hunt the dolphins or not, but my issue lies with them wanting to supply this poison to schools around the country as whale meat which they already do. Meat from non-toothed whales is quite safe (not that I would eat it) and contains very little mercury, but the Japanese make no distinction between non-toothed and toothed whale meat, including dolphins, as a result, if you are a whale meat lover you never know what you are buying.
Also, yesterday's article mentioned the dolphins were sold to aquariums around the world, however, there are less than 20 a year out of 20,000 sold to aquariums each year. The rest ends up at your local izakaya as whale meat.Gurukun
OssanAmerica and tsurubushi- Amen to that!
NuckinFutz
Yes, please feed the psycho-nationalists lots of free dolphin meat for guarding poor Taiji and keeping the foreigners out! Maybe a few will choke on the meat and make the world a much nicer place!
tsurubushi
Ossan -
agreed. put the information out in the public sphere and let the Japanese people figure out what they want to do with it. No more of this "we think it's bad, so your country should ban it" nonsense.
isthistheend
Don't eat dophin meat anytime soon, for your own health and safety.
OssanAmerica
Whatever progress and good the producer and those behind the Cove accomplished by making the film and even getting it to show even in theaters in Japan goes right out the window by continuing to try and "force" the town to change their ways.