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Tokyo area sees daily coronavirus cases top 100 for first time

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dont worry, I’m sure the government will continue to do as little as possible

28 ( +29 / -1 )

Everyone more or less knew this was gonna happen, except for the government.

23 ( +24 / -1 )

Oooohhhh, slowly but surely, something is happening:

they are now “strongly urging

19 ( +19 / -0 )

Next, PM Abe would vow to send each family 2 packs of hand sanitizers !

24 ( +24 / -0 )

Klaus

Everyone more or less knew this was gonna happen, except for the government

The government and experts.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

So, the amount of new cases is still rising daily. It might be time for Japan to get strict on social distancing and start closing public meeting places.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Everyone gonna be talking about this tonight in the bars & izakayas.

25 ( +25 / -0 )

Nothing to worry about!

When it is a thousand or two a day then it’ll be newsworthy....

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Hope that the decision makers had reached the boiling point.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Lets be honest guys what it will change if there is going to be a state of emergency. Nothing really. People will pretend that they need to go to their work because its "significant" . Well unless you are working in a food factory, grocery store。、

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It would actually be more useful if some data were provided about the locations, ages, and other pertinent information about those diagnosed, including whether they are elderly, with pre-existing conditions, or residing in assisted living facilities.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Japan death toll remains low at 63, alongside 514 recovery. The more testings go, the more confirmed cases appear, and but also the lower the death rate is.

I don't sweat at the latest development yet. The 2018-19 season flu killed more than 20,000 in Japan regardless of age, despite well-applied medication available. Every year 10 million Japanese are suspected of being infected (estimated, for many didn't even get test). Put things into perspective.

In this year on, the flu case numbers in Japan have been significantly low (much unlike in the US); means, the local healthcare services must have an extra capacity for other infectious diseases.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

My son's school wants all the students to come in for one hour on Monday and like heck if I am going to send him.  What I will do is when I know that all the students have left the building I will go in and find out who is new teacher is and what was required that day.   There are 2 more days they want the children to go in and this school is in Tokyo and I cannot fathom why they want to risk my son's life and mine by gathering all these children in a small classroom.  It will be interesting to see how many people will send their children.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Oooohhhh, slowly but surely, something is happening:

they are now “strongly urging

slowly changing their language, that,s right... key word here being: “slowly”...

Nothing to worry about!

When it is a thousand or two a day then it’ll be newsworthy....

the thing is, it is already... we just don,t know about it ( or we know, but it,s not official ). they,re not testing enough people. no tests, no numbers.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The government of Japan and it's leadership behaves like the proverbial ostrich. When it sees danger coming, it buries its head in the sand, hears nothing, sees nothing until it is swept away.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

They never report how many are cured.  In fact most of them are cured.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

Perhaps they're waiting for it to get to 10,000 in Tokyo. Then they'll 'recommend' pachinko parlours close...

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I hope the death toll stays very low but if it rises like New York City, then I predict that Abe will be absolutely skewered.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@ tinawatanabe,

They can't report, because they are not testing enough.

You can find the figures for mortality and recovery rates Globally if you search. It's not all doom and gloom, however Japan's strategy of obfuscation, delaying tactics (hoping to hold on until Golden Week when the economy winds down anyway) and lack of testing is doing us all (all of us) no favors, and causing unnecessary stress.

That's just my opinion though, so do your own research...the numbers are available.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Arrivals today at Narita had to wait up to seven hours to take their Covid19 tests. In some cases they had to form long lines without social distancing or just remain waiting on their plane.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

If a 104 year old American can recover from the virus, I think Ill "risk " going out tomorrow too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6768961/man-turns-104-recovers-coronavirus/amp/

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

Time for the Abe cabinet to start "thinking about it" and make a "we're on the brink today, too!" speech before doing absolutely nothing, save giving the world another reason to shake their head at this island nation and start banning travelers from here, on top of telling people to come home.

In any case, today is the first time more than 100 new cases are confirmed. It'll likely be more than 500 a day before the week's through, given this government's inability to do what is necessary. But hey, get on the crowded train Monday morning peeps, with the snotty masks on, warming your chin when your thirsty and under your nose because it's hard to breathe. It's all "necessary" for the economy.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Did we travel back in time ?

@Hervé L'Eisa

Official :

Nationalwide :

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/houdou/houdou_list_202003.html

look for that kind of stuff : 新型コロナウイルスに関連した患者等の発生について(3月31日公表分)

Tokyo :

https://stopcovid19.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en/

Osaka :

http://www.pref.osaka.lg.jp/iryo/osakakansensho/corona.html

Where to find data from other prefecture (the list is at the bottom of the page) :

https://github.com/reustle/covid19japan-data/

Compiled voluntary

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jfB4muWkzKTR0daklmf8D5F0UfIYAgcx-Ij9McClQ/edit#gid=0

https://coromap.info/

@noriahojanen

Flu, here we come again.

Are you comparing an illness for which a bunch of people get vaccinated every year thus stooping the spread to an illness from which nobody is vaccinated thus the exponential grow is not stopped ?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/17/why-exponential-growth-is-so-scary-for-the-covid-19-coronavirus/

How does the comparison go by regarding other countries ?

Italia :

flu this year (from October to end of January) : 2,768,000 positives, period of peak : 1 week + 488,000 cases ; death tools : 240 people

covid-19 (from end of January): 119,827 positives (asymptomatic excluded), as of current data peak : around 6,000*7=42,000 cases ; death tools : 14681 people

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

Didn't you notice the curb is rising ? Even the death ones ? Not rising enough ? You understand what involve exponential growth ?

should start at 31 :

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I just watched a documentary on ABC Australia about how Singapore was doing such a good job containing the virus and was praised by WHO as a good model for other countries to follow. At the end of the program it says the situation is getting a little worried as overseas Singaporian were returning to the country. Then I google the latest news online and find this:

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/singapore-announces-1-month-lockdown-amid-rising-corona-cases/amp-11585905344421.html

Singapore announces one-month lockdown

2 min read . 03 Apr 2020

Most workplaces, except for essential services, will close starting Tuesday

The action comes as confirmed cases of local transmission in the country have risen in recent weeks

Even with extensive testing, strict isolation, near detective style contact tracing, after reaching 1,114 cases, 6 death, population of 5.6 million Singapore has decided to play it safe and folded it cards.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Everyone gonna be talking about this tonight in the bars & izakayas.

I can hardly put up a smile recently but this is really funny and makes me laugh. Thanks, mate.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

They never report how many are cured. In fact most of them are cured.

This is factually incorrect. Japan has 2253 active cases right now and only 514 recovered.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

noriahojanen

Do doctors and nurses die treating patients with season flu? In Italy, over 8,000 medical staff have been infected and 63 doctors have died. Similarly news are reported in many other countries, too.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

100 cases in Tokyo (today) mean thousands are infected-hospitals will soon be overcrowded and then completely overrun as cases surge upwards....

5 ( +6 / -1 )

These infections could have been from two weeks ago, what's it going to be like in two weeks? Even with countries locked down it still spreads somehow, better sooner than later probably though

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's clear that these numbers will continue to increase until massive, coordination action is taken. Well, clear to everyone except for those in the Prime Minister's office, apparently...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@spinningplates

I care about people losing their jobs, people being locked in their homes around the world

I am not particularly concerned about a virus that people over 100 years old can recover from.

What about new york or Italy you say, well unfortunately a lack of funding (nurses wearing bin bags as protection etc) is the biggest cause of death there.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

carpslidy

I care about people losing their jobs, people being locked in their homes around the world

Do more research before commenting, please. Australia is in lockdown but people can still go out and buy essential items and exercise but they need to observe dome rules like social distancing.

I am not particularly concerned about a virus that people over 100 years old can recover from.

Carvid-19 kills heathy young adults and kids, too! A 13 year old in UK died alone in the hospital. Not all death are elderlies. Your comment is just pathetic.

https://www.nypost.com/2020/04/01/13-year-old-boy-dies-alone-in-coronavirus-isolation-in-uk-hospital/amp/

What about new york or Italy you say, well unfortunately a lack of funding (nurses wearing bin bags as protection etc) is the biggest cause of death there.

That is not the reason those infected people died.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

In this year on, the flu case numbers in Japan have been significantly low (much unlike in the US); means, the local healthcare services must have an extra capacity for other infectious diseases.

Mmmmm.

"Extra capacity" isn't how most countries have been describing their situation. Each country has a finite number of ICU places. In this epidemic, those places run out very fast. More can be added, but it takes time and isn't easy; there is the additional problem of finding enough trained personnel to staff those wards, and the necessary equipment.

I don't happen to know how many spaces Japan has right now; I'll guarantee you don't either, and that you haven't spent much time thinking about it. But the number of places available now, the number of places that could be added, the staffing issues, the equipment issues, and the speed with which this apparently slumbering government is able to react to a full-blown emergency - all those factors will dictate how bad this can get.

Yet we're still at the stage of ignoring danger signals, leaving problems to pile up for later. In other countries, people mingling as if nothing is wrong is now taken as a direct attack on their own health services. Because it is. And it's paid for with the lives of healthcare workers.

It's time Japan started to understand this.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I think Japan will adopt the lockdown, because there's pressure for this. Anyway I'd like to notice that there are Countries where people are living "normally", without any lockdown or weird tracking system. It's the case of Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, and also Germany. All these Countries represent exception to the rule. It's also astonishing the very low mortality tally of Germany, compared to Italy, Spain and also France, despite the large number of infected people. I read some articles that tried to explain the reasons behind Germany's situation, but nothing convinced me. There's something really mysterious behind this virus and the reaction of some Countries compared to others.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ yoshisan88

. Australia is in lockdown but people can still go out and buy essential items 

Well that sounds like a great time.

Carvid-19 kills heathy young adults and kids, too! A 13 year old in UK died alone in the hospital. Not all death are elderlies. Your comment is just pathetic.

Yes, but so do a whole variety of other conditions. Cars kill more children , yet me haven't outlawed cars. We accept the risk as society a trade off for convenience I say this as a parent.

What about new york or Italy you say, well unfortunately a lack of funding (nurses wearing bin bags as protection etc) is the biggest cause of death there.

That is not the reason those infected people died.

Please ompare italian and us death rates to germany, a country with excellent healthcare.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Recently whilst trying to find Toilet paper & Masks & Alcohol based hand-sanitizers I, noticed that the shelves in my local supermarket had been stripped bare. Nothing anywhere... except Beers, Spirits and other alcohols. This made me pause for thought... if people are becoming so paranoid and buying everything, even stuff they don't normally buy, then why haven't they bought all the Alcohol ? Surely, as Health experts recommend using alcohol based hand wipes to kill the virus, why haven't such people put 2 and 2 together and connected drinking of vast quantities of Alcohol with getting rid of the virus internally ?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

300+ new cases across Japan yesterday.

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13271419

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yes, but so do a whole variety of other conditions. Cars kill more children , yet me haven't outlawed cars. We accept the risk as society a trade off for convenience I say this as a parent.

Hey, you an epidemiologist? What do they say, do you know something the actual experts don't?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If a 104 year old American can recover from the virus, I think Ill "risk " going out tomorrow too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6768961/man-turns-104-recovers-coronavirus/amp/

According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

So far

296,514 Cases which had an outcome:

236,086 (80%) Recovered / Discharged

60,428 (20%) Deaths

Such irresponsible thought but that is why so many people did not heed the warning and government have to take actions and closed down beachs and others places here in Australia.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Yoshisan: if people look at the worldometers data, currently you can see how Italy tested way more people per capita than South Korea, despite the narrative that South Korea is testing basically everyone. I think there are many things about this virus and whole situation that we ordinary people don't know.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@yoshisan

440 deaths per day in australia(all causes

30 corona deaths to date( you lockdown )

800 bushfire deaths (you continue to expand cities further into the bush)

What I am saying is live involves risk and unfortunately people die.

yet why do 30 deaths cause you to lockdown, yet 800 don't cause you to ban living in the bush?

The response does match the risk in regards to coronavirus

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

12 more people found to be infected today in a retirement home in Ota-ku. What is the fricken threashold to declare a state of emergency? 150?, 200?, 500?, 1000 people?...c'mon enough is enough already! DO SOMETHING!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I get the feeling Italy was used like the "test" for every Western democracy. It's like if someone thought if a very social Country like Italy can stand months of lockdown and isolation, well also any other Western democracy can do it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

my god, 100 people infected on a population of 14.000.000 people

actually 0,00063% of Tokyo is infected.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Alex80, salute to brave Italians. You are fighting the virus not only for Italians but also for Europeans and all people on the earth.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@clippertyclop

Numbers wise yes, percentage wise not even close.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

You virus deniers are living in an alternate reality. The virus is here amongst us. It is much more lethal to all age groups than the flu. It is highly contagious. I like to say “It spreads faster than Herpes at Coachella.” You can spread it just by breathing. There is no surge capacity. There is no therapeutic. We are heading toward exponential spread.

I know this because scientists with no political ax to grind tell me so. The sooner you recognize reality the safer we will be.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Every case a tragedy and as a parent I can only image the pain.

As a parent you'd be better off informing yourself properly about the risk of this disease, what it can do to your community, and what it can do to your family.

If you have the patience to concentrate for 20 minutes, this interview with a doctor does an excellent job of laying it out clearly. This is a hospital (Gwent, Wales) where things are basically under control, for now. It covers a lot of ground: what the wards are like, what the disease is like, what it means for the patient, what the families of patients can expect. Without being emotional or sensational, it's nevertheless extremely sobering. It provides an accurate snapshot of this disease - which you don't. If you can watch this and your reaction is to return to yapping about flu and car crashes, there's really no helping you, Parent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejlbCmRJMW4

3 ( +3 / -0 )

What I continue to say is the respone is far greater than the risk

So, you aren't actually an epidemiologist? I haven't seen any of them compare this to the flu, or say it isn't a big deal. I think, Im going to to stick with experts opinion.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Japan has only tested around 35000 - 37000 people for Covid19.

Australia has now tested over 260000 people for Covid19 (over one percent of its population). The tests are free, test points increasing daily and given to anyone with a fever and/or two symptoms and people with underlying health conditions.

Increased testing makes it possible to track peoples movements and contacts thereby getting more people checked, not infecting others and possibly saving lives.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Look, the more you test people for the Virus, the more you build up your Statistics on its rate of infection, and the more paranoid the Country gets... maybe for good or bad.

Japan doesn't want to test, so beit, but, the thing to look for is the number of Deaths figure - that they do publish.

Use Common sense when all those around you fail to do so.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Testing now to find out and break clusters is too late.

I do not know what will happen in Japan, but I see no scientific reasons why it should be any different vs. what has/is happening in Europe or USA.

Even Singapore is calling for a partial lockdown as of next Tuesday.

Stay home and get ready for the worst.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

BTW: Two weeks ago I told my boss I will work from home. He was pissed off and made me nasty comments like I was an irresponsible team leader.

I feel now proud of being a responsible citizen.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Carpslidy:

If a 104 year old American can recover from the virus, I think Ill "risk " going out tomorrow too.

In every statistic, there are outliers. By the same token, you can also find a 30something who died from the virus. It does not change the fundamental statistics -- the older, the higher the risk. Add existing medical conditions, and the curve becomes even sharper.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

yoshisan88:

296,514 Cases which had an outcome:

236,086 (80%) Recovered / Discharged

60,428 (20%) Deaths

How does that site define "case"? Seems like they refer to people receiving treatment, not all tested people. The more people are tested in various countries, the closer the infection mortality rate seems to edge towards something like 2%, in other words a lot more deadly than the flu, but nothing like the doomsday scenario that some people imagine. Certainly not 20%!

By the, the Icelandic tests suggests that 50% of infected people have no symptoms at all. Nothing, nada, zilch. Although they can still infect others, which makes the virus even more insidious.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@mmwkdw

Fair comments (perhaps related to my post).

Yes people probably do freak at the number of cases and on that point Australia has over double the number of cases as Japan according to today's stats.

And to your point about the number of deaths related to Covid19 well Japan has a death rate about 4 times higher than Australia. Now that would really get people paranoid if it were reported.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The choice is

Everyone stays in a bubble for the next year until we have a vaccine and world economy collapses causing an unknown number of deaths

Or we continue living our normal lifes and and an also unknown number dies.(remember all estimates are only estimates)

That is the crux of the matter

Personally, I believe a melt down of society is far more dangerous and I continue to live my life while taking precautions (wash hands,wear a mask, stay home if sick) but if you believe living in a bubble is worth it then fair to you.

This is a democracy so I have no right to tell you to leave your house at the same time you have no right to tell me to stay home.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Mirai Hayashi:

12 more people found to be infected today in a retirement home in Ota-ku. What is the fricken threashold to declare a state of emergency? 150?, 200?, 500?, 1000 people?...c'mon enough is enough already! DO SOMETHING!

What exactly should that "state of emergency" include in your mind, and what should it achieve? I am wondering what exactly you want.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

Italy: the real number of COVID-19 cases in the country could be 5,000,0000 (compared to the 119,827 confirmed ones) according to a study which polled people with symptoms who have not been tested, and up to 10,000,000 or even 20,0000,000 after taking into account asymptomatic cases, according to Carlo La Vecchia, a Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at the Statale di Milano University.

> This number would still be insufficient to reach herd immunity, which would require 2/3 of the population (about 40,000,000 people in Italy) having contracted the virus [source].

> The number of deaths could also be underestimated by 3/4 (in Italy as well as in other countries) [source], meaning that the real number of deaths in Italy could be around 60,000.

> If these estimates were true, the mortality rate from COVID-19 would be much lower (around 25 times less) than the case fatality rate based solely on laboratory-confirmed cases and deaths, since it would be underestimating cases (the denominator) by a factor of about 1/100 and deaths by a factor of 1/4.

Just to illustrate that there could well be a rampant contamination in Japan. Hopefully not, but better worry now than sorry in a month.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cognac:

my god, 100 people infected on a population of 14.000.000 people

Err, no. Obviously, a heck of a lot more people are infected, but showing either no or only light symptoms, so don´t go the hospital and don´t get tested. Remember: incubation time 2 weeks, and half of the people without sypmtoms. I hope the death rate stays low, but if you seriously think only 100 people are infected, you are denying reality.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The problem with this virus, and our ability to communicate world wide during this epidemic, is that there are a huge number of people smart enough to figure out some 'gotcha' that they think makes sense, but too stupid to realize that they aren't smart enough to understand the full picture. But they get on the internet, and talk with the confidence of one who knows what they are talking about, and refuse to listen to the people who aren't stupid and actually know what they are talking about.

The problem is both the number of these people in government world wide, as well as the number of them who post on the internet.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

How does that site define "case"? Seems like they refer to people receiving treatment, not all tested people.

Neither of those is the definition of a case. A case is a positive diagnosis, whether they receive treatment or not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Alex80

I get the feeling Italy was used like the "test" for every Western democracy.

Italia was the first one to detect case and cluster then started mass testing and quickly put a mass quarantine on Lombardy then extending it to area around then the whole country. Other countries see the virus spread farther thus took Italia as an example of how to protect their people once the spread has gone out of hand. Italia is not a test but an example of how to act in a really dire situation. So relax yourself.

how Italy tested way more people per capita than South Korea

Not way more as of now. But yes, they went ahead of South Korea at the end of March. I think they are trying their best to go for : test - track - treat (isolate/quarantine/medical care/...) so that they can slowly release mass-quarantine as other countries which had the same peak of case. That is good.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#testing-for-covid-19

It's the case of Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, and also Germany. All these Countries represent exception to the rule.

Germany went for test - track - treat, really early as they got a cluster quickly, thus they identify most cases early which bend the curb. But it is still going to rise so mass-modulated-quarantine are in place with difference regarding area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Germany#March

Switzerland as established a mass-modulated-quarantine, which got harder when the curb bend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Switzerland

Austria as established a mass-modulated-quarantine, which got harder with the curb bend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Austria

Sweden seems to have choose a mix of herd immunity and self-restriction (helped with high level of telework).

Personally, I am wondering if weather/weather related behavior do not play a role in the pandemic at least in Europa as the spread is going from south to north.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Sweden

@carpslidy

The response does match the risk in regards to coronavirus

Please give us your calculation and methodology of the risk regarding covid-19.

NB : the death rate for people past 80yo is in between 14,8% and 21,9% as of the current estimate. This mean out of 100 people 78,1 do not die (104 yo US guy included).

After if you wait for a virus with a 100% fatality rate, to start feeling concerned.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@carpslidy

The lockdown objective is to be able to maintain the health care afloat. Nothing less, nothing more,

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is a democracy so I have no right to tell you to leave your house at the same time you have no right to tell me to stay home.

Actually, in a democracy, you have the right to do both of those things. Telling someone these things are not legal offenses. However, in a democracy, citizens cannot enforce either of them.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Strangerland:

Neither of those is the definition of a case. A case is a positive diagnosis, whether they receive treatment or not.

...which is a distinction that you can make if you make a statistic, however the site where the sensationalist 20% comes from (worldometers), does not say "positive diagnosis" for this column, it says "Recovered / Discharged"... which of course implies treatment.

Fwiw, the same site also says that the mortality rate currently given by the WHO is 3.4%.

I was only asking to put the dramatic sounding "20%" in perspective.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Do doctors and nurses die treating patients with season flu? In Italy, over 8,000 medical staff have been infected and 63 doctors have died.

Thanks to the policy of open borders in the EU (which causes a brain drain from poorer countries to richer ones), 55% of doctors in Italy are over 55 (the younger ones have all left to work in the UK and elsewhere) - and that is why so many doctors have died in Italy.

In Korea the virus hasn't killed so many doctors, because in Korea only 19% or doctors are over 55.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@open minded

Yes, I agree that is the goal, thus the number of open icu beds would be far better benchmark. Furthermore as that is the stated goal advice in my opinion should be given to different age groups as opposed to blanket lockdowns. Admittedly this runs the risk of infecting the elderly too, but unfortunately this is a balancing act of keeping economics afloat while protecting the most at risk.,

@flute

The highest risk group, are also it appears from posts about full pachinko palours and from my own experiences of seeing gate ball games and hanami parties this weekend the least likely to take precautions. Maybe they would rather take the risk and enjoy whatever time they have left, I don't know.Just how it seems to me.

@strangerland.

Yes your right. Apologies

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the site where the sensationalist 20% comes from (worldometers), does not say "positive diagnosis" for this column, it says "Recovered / Discharged"... which of course implies treatment.

I don't see that as an implication. Someone can be diagnosed (become a case), not receive treatment (due to not needing it) and recover. How does that imply that treatment was required?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

LOL Japan finally tested enough to reach 100. There are 10's of thousands more infected. It looks like Abe is trying to perpetually under test until Japan reaches herd immunity. That way he can claim low number of infections and keep political impact low. Doesn't bode well for old people and people with health issues who will make up the mortality rate. How disturbing is it that Japan is following China's lead of misleading and hiding reality rather than open testing and transparency?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

it says "Recovered / Discharged"... which of course implies treatment.

‘Discharged’ implies treatment or at least observation at hospital. ‘Recovered’ does not carry the same implication.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Strangerland:

How does that imply that treatment was required?

OK, maybe not, but it says "recovered", not "tested". You can not "recover" if you don´t have problems. Again, I only putting the "20% dead" in perspective.

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melonbarmonster:

LOL Japan finally tested enough to reach 100. There are 10's of thousands more infected.

Absolutely. Actually, I would not be surprised if most of us already have been exposed and are safe. I had a really bad cold in January.... would love to take test and find out if that was actually Covid, so I get forget about it.

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maybe not, but it says "recovered", not "tested". You can not "recover" if you don´t have problems.

Sure you can. If you have the virus, then you get over it, you have recovered, whether or not you had any problems.

Again, I only putting the "20% dead" in perspective.

And I'm only showing you the flaws in your logic.

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strangerland:

And I'm only showing you the flaws in your logic.

What flaws? What do YOU think the 20% figure is based on, if you think I am wrong.

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What flaws?

This one:

it says "Recovered / Discharged"... which of course implies treatment.

And this one:

maybe not, but it says "recovered", not "tested". You can not "recover" if you don´t have problems.

What do YOU think the 20% figure is based on

No idea. I didn't even look at the link. Again, I was just pointing out the flaws in the logic you've posted. I'm not defending that number, as I haven't even looked into it. It may be absolute rubbish, but if it is, the arguments you've provided, due to their flaws, haven't exposed the number for being rubbish. Or it may be entirely correct, which would explain why it was not disprovable with flawed logic.

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Journalist:Which is more important economic or people health

government :economy is so important!

journalist :how about people health

government :No comment!!

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Strangerland:

No idea. I didn't even look at the link.

But we just have to argue, don´t we. Humans....

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But we just have to argue, don´t we.

We're on a site where we debate issues. Part of the problem in these troubling times is that people are making arguments trying to figure out what is right or wrong. I'm all for finding out what is right, so that means that we also need to point out what is wrong.

You were using flawed logic in your debate on the topic, so I pointed that out. Otherwise someone not seeing those mistakes in logic may take your logic as valid. In an age where so many people don't bother fact-checking and fall to their confirmation bias, such a person may start spreading the idea that the stats the other poster provided have been debunked, even though logically they have not. We do not need the spread of disinformation any further right now.

So, I pointed out the flaws in your logic. It's nothing personal against you, and you should take it as an opportunity to fact-check yourself. Maybe you'll find out that assumptions you made previously were incorrect. Or maybe you'll become more clear on how the stats the other person provided actually are flawed, and be able to provide an argument free of the flaws in logic you previously provided. Both of these are positive outcomes.

Marking my post down as 'you just want to argue' is not a positive outcome, as it doesn't further the discussion at all. I don't 'just want to argue', I want to get as many facts out in the open, and decrease the amount of misinformation being spread, so that we can all deal with this current situation realistically.

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"If we test we will find infected persons and dealing with those infected persons would overwhelm our medical facilities!" - government official.

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@Flute: Sorry, but what you wrote didn't convince me. For example, about South Korea everyone is praising their model about "social distance", but seriously, how do you even call this "social distance"?

http://english.chosun.com/m/svc/article.html?contid=2020040400400

Here in Italy we have a real lockdown. Italy had tested people very fast too. I doubt in South Korea the virus was contained because of some tracking app and "social distance". Honestly I think the virus we have here and probably also in Spain isn't the same thing. It's apparently way more aggressive. I don't know why. I had read a nonsense theory always in a Korean newspaper by some doctor based in New York about the fact the strain of the virus in Italy and Iran was evolved because of the "traditions" in those Countries. It looked such a stupid theory honestly, not scientific at all. Which "traditions"? Sorry, but while I don't like conspiracy theories, I am reading and seeing so much absurdity lately to the extent I don't know what to think anymore.

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I get the feeling Italy was used like the "test" for every Western democracy

Italy has fairly large Chinese migrant population in Pronto and Florence. Italy is also the only developed nation to join China's Silk Road Initiative.

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@tooltalk: in Pronto? Maybe you mean in Prato. I know only something really bad is happening in my Country, and we Italians are doing way more efforts and sacrifices than people did in S.Korea, Taiwan or Singapore. But this virus continues to spread highly anyway. There's something really weird and scary.

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@tooltalk: yeah, Italy joined China's Silk Road Initiative. And? Are you implying we were "punished" by someone for that? I don't know it anymore.

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@Akie: thanks.

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@carpslidy

Or we continue living our normal lifes and and an also unknown number dies.(remember all estimates are only estimates)

You don't continue living your normal lives. You attempt to do that as infection spreads unchecked. Known infections, whether symptomatic or not, can result in lengthy isolation or quarantine for known contacts: that's workplaces, factories, schools, places of worship, gyms, bars, restaurants, tourist sites, vehicles/vessels, stores, etc., etc., etc. Life isn't normal when such places have to shut down or stop operating at a moment's notice.

Additionally, of those infected people, some will become sick. Of those, some will die. Again, life wouldn't be normal if you were trundling off to your workplace every day and noticing more and more empty desks as colleagues went through several weeks of sickness and some, due to death, never returned at all. And it's repeated all across your city, your region, and your country. There isn't any way something like that could be sustained for long.

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Keeping the health care system afloat is not just to be able to manage COVID19 infected people but all the rest that need care as in any normal time. Hospitals were not empty before this pandemic.

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"Everyone more or less knew this was gonna happen, except for the government..." They knew, and did nothing. Now they can't act for fear of having to take responsibility, so once again the people pay the price for having elected a useless excuse for a government. Maybe someday they'll learn, an opposition party will emerge, and there will be democracy. But probably not.

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current state in Japan, prefecture by prefecture. This includes how many patients/available hospital beds, and below that, the total confirmed cases, discharged patients, and deaths.

https://www.stopcovid19.jp/

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Same resource in English: https://www.stopcovid19.jp/#en

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