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Tokyo gov't agrees to take 1,000 tons of debris from city in Iwate

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The Tokyo metropolitan government has agreed to take 1,000 tons of debris next month from disaster-stricken Iwate Prefecture’s Miyako City.

According to a report on NTV, Tokyo will sign a formal cooperation agreement with Iwate Prefecture later Friday. Officials are calling for Tokyo waste disposal companies to help dispose of the mostly wood and metal debris to be picked up in October.

Officials with knowledge of the agreement say the debris will be measured for radiation on-site before being transported by rail to Tokyo, where it will be tested a second time, NTV said. The Tokyo government says that all test results will be fully disclosed to the public.

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....and if they junk registers radiation? No mention of what they will do then. Leave it?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Officials with knowledge of the agreement say the debris will be measured for radiation on-site before being transported by rail to Tokyo, where it will be tested a second time, NTV said.

50% of radiation will be lost in transit from Miyako to Tokyo...and balance data adjustment...test result 'safe' will be fully disclosed to the public.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So will Nagoya become the new capital city then? Or maybe Kyoto, out of a sense of history...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

50% of radiation will be lost in transit from Miyako to Tokyo

Really? How does that happen?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

50% of radiation will be lost in transit from Miyako to Tokyo

I'm thinking radiation will be gained when they stop in Fukushima to pick up a few tons at a time. It's right on the way. Iwate probably isn't actually that bad for radiation, especially the northern part, but I'm not confident that that is where all the waste will come from. Should I be more trusting?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Geewiz, someone is really mixed this up with a concept of Distribution of Wealth.

You need to CONTAIN criminal, poison and radiation for no harm. Crazy!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why ?

What is the point of transporting radioactive waste to Tokyo the most POPULOUS city in Japan?

Tokyo, the city in Japan with the most number of foreign residents.

And what will happen to the waste in Tokyo?

Will it be kept in front of Shinjuku station , a monument to nuclear folly?

Will it form part of a 21st century sculpture to educate the people of Tokyo on new radioactive art forms?

NO!

It will be INCINERATED and the resulting plumes of radioactive ash will contaminate the air,soil and water again and AGAIN!

Lest we forget , burning will concentrate the radioactivity ,the resulting ash will be extremely TOXIC!

Extremely toxic ash floating around a major city of 12,000,000 people!!!!!!!!

The ash will float to the ground again and be burned again,where it will float up and be deposited back down and again ad nauseum, until Tokyo suffers a major decrease in population (there won't be anyone around to do the incineration anymore!)

Maybe the radioactive contamination will reach Kyushu and Okinawa this time? Soon Japan will be the most radioactively contaminated country in the world! I feel sick already!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

kurisupisu actually I heard recently that Osaka has the most foreign residents in Japan.

Back on topic, the debris contains no radiation as it is from Iwate so I dont know what you guys are complaining. The sooner they get the debris out of there the sooner they can start rebuilding. Show a little compassion ffs.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Look at a map! Miyako is just about next to Aomori, - further from Fukushima than Tokyo. Things like car wreckage have potential for recycling. Concrete which is a huge component of the debris may also have potential for recycling.

There is no possible way that they can rebuild with so much junk still there - the piles are phenomenally large.

Radiated waste is a different matter, and there is no justification whatsover for spreading radioactivity. It makes sense to ship it to the area close to Daiichi and rope it off for the foreseeable future.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I tend to agree with kurisupisu I have visited and like Iwate very much, but this does not make sense. So the largest prefecture in Honshu, which is very rural (population of 1.3mil), is going to ship its garbage to the largest populated city on the planet.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I suppose Tokyo disposal and recycling centres can handle the volume better than the countryside incinerators. Not sure transporting all this waste is worth the effort. Why not expand the facilities up there in Tohoku - seems like it could create a few jobs in the process.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If we can believe the goverment always told the truth about the tragedy in Fukushima, in relation to the damage and radioactive contaminants of the nuclear reactors, then there is nothing to worry about them being honest in relation to the rubbish from Iwate.,???

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Iwate is miles and miles away from Fukushima, yet predictably everyone is throwing a hissy fit thinking it's radioactive waste of something. Trying looking at a map.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Papigiulio if one were to include all non-native Japanese ie people born in Japan but not Japanese it might well be , as Tokyo has the most diverse number of foreigners not born in Japan then from an international standpoint it has to be Tokyo.

Also, how is it that the sewage farms in Tokyo,Saitama and Chiba are finding radioactive substances in their sewage sludge?

Distance from a Fukushima will have an effect on radioactive concentrations but wind direction will have the effect of spreading radioactivity.

How do we know that the material from Iwate is not contaminated?

If could be and burning it in the environs of Tokyo would be madness!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

How do we know that the material from Iwate is not contaminated?

That's a very good question. So instead of trying to find out the answer you start spreading fear and make ridiculous unfounded statements. You could try and do some research before posting. It may help you.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And comments on JT.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Koji: "Taro why is this machine screaming like a cat everytime i point it at the wood?" Taro: "Gee don't know Koji it could be the batteries. Just load the wood on the train and we'll ask the boss when we get back to Tokyo".

Who was the bright spark who made this ridiculous decision? Don't they believe in containment?

-1 ( +1 / -3 )

I was in Iwate prefecture earlier this month. Out of interest, I calculated it: it is 170km from the Fukushima plants to central Tokyo; it is another 165km beyond that to Kamaishi-shi, where I was. Recalling from the map, Miyako is even further north (~60km from Kamaishi), it's clearly further away.

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the comments on radiation.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Burning extra waste in Tokyo will create more air pollution in Tokyo regardless whether that pollution is radioactive or not. It would be better to build a facility in Iwate to deal with it. The problem will not go away soon.S Somebody is getting kickbacks from the government on this one.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Burying of radioactive household waste challenging

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/26_03.html

Radioactive ash is a big problem it seems in Tokyo already.

Facilites to store contaminated soil to be built

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/29_05.html

Excerpt: The environment ministry says it will build facilities to temporarily store radioactive contaminated soil in Tokyo and 7 prefectures in eastern and northern Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

High cesium levels detected as far away as Gunma Prefecture

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ2011092812395

Excerpt: Radioactive cesium from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant has spread more than 250 kilometers toward the southwest, reaching as far as Gunma Prefecture, the science ministry said.

There is a Diagram on the page

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There's no mention of the waste being radioactive, just debris from the earthquake and tsunami but in another development.

The Environment Ministry has revealed a controversial plan to build temporary storage facilities for soil contaminated with radiation from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant in eight prefectures in the Tohoku and Kanto regions.

The eight are Fukushima, Iwate, Miyagi, Tokyo, Chiba, Tochigi, Ibaraki and Gunma, Vice Environment Minister Hideki Minamikawa told reporters Wednesday after visiting Fukushima Prefecture for talks with local leaders.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is a great idea to burn all this trash in Tokyo. Tokyo has all the facilities. They should accept even more in the future. this country needs to be cleaned up and the faster, the better.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I tell you this is an end of tourism industry of Japan that has been sluggish since 3/11.

After spreading all these radioactive materials on all over Japan, who would come to Japan? Average tourists spend at least $4000 in Japan while they stay. Many will go to Hawaii or elsewhere if this is done. Is this what Japan wants to do? Japan needs to contain the radioactive materials as much as they can FIRST. This is a very short sighted strategy in my opinion. Please think about this twice SERIOUSLY.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Officials with knowledge of the agreement say the debris will be measured for radiation on-site before being transported by rail to Tokyo, where it will be tested a second time, NTV said. The Tokyo government says that all test results will be fully disclosed to the public.

they are going to do tests at least for the safety of the workers because you never know where a Hotspot might turn up.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why do people make comments about the waste being radioactive, does not say that in the post? 1,000 tons of debris is very small.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

1,000 tons of debris from city in Iwate

zichiSep. 30, 2011 - 10:56AM JST

Can they burn it instead?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Following the disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, the radiation level in Iwate never reached higher than 1.5 microsieverts per hour, which is even lower than Tokyo.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Boo to JT for cherrypicking news likely to cause alarm! 1,000 tonnes is super small, and no mention of radioactivity. Editors know waste disposal is a hot topic and have thrown this in there because the article is short and no doubt cheap.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

According to the Tokyo government , Iwate prefecture tested the debris' burned ashes and found only 133 Becquerel /kg of radioactive substances, which is much less than the government standard of 8000 Bq/kg .

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nicky WashidaSep. 30, 2011 - 07:38AM JST

50% of radiation will be lost in transit from Miyako to Tokyo

Really? How does that happen?

It's a lie, a lie that only govt can tell.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Utrack,

Why did you mention Gunma which is no where near to Iwate?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tokyo wants to make money from the disaster. Nearly all the construction companies in Miyagi, building temporary homes, are Tokyo based. Very little of the work is going to local contractors or labor. A 29 sq m home is costing ¥5 million, which is much higher than the price set by the Disaster Relief Law. The temporary housing will have to be torn down after 3 years. For about ¥8 million you can buy a 3 bedroom prefabricated home with a life span of 20+ years?

When we dig beneath the debris and the radiation, we'll discover that the disaster is now about making money. I would prefer to see the work being done by companies and labor from within the disaster zones where since 3/11 the unemployment rate is now twice the national one.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Something sounds odd with this idea.

Metal does not burn. it melts. Wood burns.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Radiation Did not stay in Fukushima and the Diagram of the article I posted concerning the spread shows that radiation did indeed spread to other prefectures.

It's good that the debris is going to be tested for radiation before it loaded onto the rail.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Utrack,

No one is saying radiation from Fukushima didn't spread to other prefectures. I checked out your link and the map which does not show Iwate, nor does the accompanying article mention Iwate, both are about Gunma.

The growing and selling of rice and other food stuffs from Iwate is not banned.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I understand and to some extent agree with zichi's concern about people/companies making money out of the disaster. Making huge profits at the expense of people who are suffering is reprehensible.

But surely it's by allowing people/companies to make a reasonable amount of money from the recovery that will actually allow the recovery to take place? And if the people making money then go out and spend it, that will help oil the economy and thus help us all....won't it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

cleo,

I have no problem with companies or individuals making money from the disaster, and in principle, it's a good thing. The total cost of reconstruction will be about ¥17 trillion over 20 years. That's a good boost for the economy. But I believe, as much as possible the disaster reconstruction work should go to companies and individuals from within the disaster zones. Local economy first.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

zichi, I can't disagree with you on that; but the local economy doesn't exist in a vacuum. If the lure of contracts brings in money/expertise from outside, it's surely a help. And while those actually in the disaster area were the worst hit, many many people outside also suffered financially; I know my own income dipped severely immediately after 3/11, and I'm not in an area that suffered directly form either the earthquake of the tsunami. Many others suffered much more.

Getting things moving again must be the priority.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@cleo

All the contracts are going to Tokyo companies with cosy relationships with the government (and possibly ties with the Yakuza).

I can tell you personally that this kind of collusion is not a myth, I have heard some stories (from a very trustable source and personal experience) about how businesses dealing with government-related entities have to provide gifts to get contracts (for example, hiring retirees from these entities). Many (most?) public contracts are not given on a competitive basis but to "friendly companies".

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Yakuza are making a fortune from the disaster and at the Fukushima Daiichi plant supplying machinery and day laborers.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

cleo,

Your own income might have dropped following 3/11 but you didn't lose everything you owned. It will take a family with two children about ¥10 million to set up a new home. They may even need to continuing paying a mortgage on a house or a car loan which they no longer have?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

All readers back on topic please. The subject is Tokyo agreeing to take 1,000 tons of debris from Iwate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, we can be sure that it is a huge money spinner.

However,

since March several typhoons have spread contamination throughout Japan. If the west coast of the US can receive radiation enough to cause concern then I am sure that Iwate has and is likely to show the same elevated levels now or in the future. And we should also remember that the radioactivity from Fukushimas has and is continuing to circle our planet. - Be sure that it has many times!

The emissions are still ongoing and are not contained.

Burning will concentrate whatever radiation there is until there is a sludge of radioactive ashes left. This will be highly toxic

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Checked some sites for radiation readings in Iwate, could find none higher than 0.5 mircosieverts /hr?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Zichi - of course , the radioactive air concentrations in Iwate will be less-that is what you are seeing measured. In Kansai the reading is 0.13 outside and 0.11 inside. The disparity is the number of particles moving around in the air.

What I am interested in is the ground level contamination in Iwate

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Heads up mates, Japan Times is reporting that Tokyo will take 500,000 tons. //search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110930a2.html

This is a bl--dy large sop from somebody to somebody. Anybody else smell organised crime in this scheme? Can you imagine London or New York or the largest metropolis of any other nation in the world offering to take somebody else's garbage? Doesn't Tokyo have enough pollution as it is? It's not just a question of radiation. That debris will bring heavy metals and dioxin, all sorts of nasties. They'll dump it in the bay, most likely. After they fill the children's lungs with smoke from incinerators.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why does it need to be moved? Isn't Iwate bigger than Tokyo and has more places to keep this stuff? Perhaps Tokyo wants a few more islands?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Millions of tonnes of debris and hundreds of tousands of tonnes to be burned in Tokyo.

At this rate the environment will be so polluted that nobody will want to live in Tokyo

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The 1,000 tons is only the first shipment of an agreed 500,000 tons, metric. Tokyo made the agreement with Iwate, detecting only 133 becquerels of radioactive cesium per kilogram of ash generated after rubble was incinerated, far below the upper limit of 8,000 becquerels set by the national government.

The metropolitan government intends to transport approximately 500,000 metric tons of rubble to facilities in the capital and dispose of them over a 2 1/2-year period from this coming October to March 2014.

The waste will be separate into burnable and non burnable items. Burnable waste will be incinerated while non burnable waste will be buried in a garbage landfill area in the Tokyo Bay area.

The cost of the operation will be paid for by the central government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

From Sept 16

Dust and ashes containing cesium beyond the legal limit of 8,000 becquerels per kilogram has been found at six industrial waste incinerators in Iwate, Fukushima and Chiba prefectures, the Environment Ministry said Thursday.

Samples from 110 industrial waste disposal facilities in 16 prefectures from east to northeast Japan have revealed cesium readings ranging from 10,800 to 144,200 becquerels at four incinerators in Fukushima Prefecture, 23,000 becquerels at a facility in Iwate Prefecture and 11,500 becquerels at an incinerator in Chiba Prefecture, the ministry said.

At the end of August, the ministry issued a guideline advising local authorities to solidify incinerated dust and ashes containing between 8,000 to 100,000 becquerels of cesium per kilogram with cement, wrap it in watertight sheeting and bury it in landfills.

The ministry earlier decided to allow waste containing up to 8,000 becquerels per kilogram to be buried in waste disposal sites, provided that no residences are built at the sites in the future.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The waste should be dealt with in Iwate, which should be crushed and not burnt and then buried in a properly built and controlled landfill.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Zichi you find a lot of good information. How are you so attuned to this? Do you work for Ozawa? just teasing

0 ( +0 / -0 )

JapanGal,

Just reading and searching and not just accepting the first article or post as the entire truth. I start to believe when I see it from three good sources and not just the same post copied and pasted everywhere. I'm less trusting when it comes to the media and the government, for that matter. Who's Ozawa?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Radioactive hotspots have been found in prefectures neighboring Tokyo with levels of cesium rivaling those found in the least contaminated parts of Fukushima prefecture, according to the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT). MEXT released radiation maps of Chiba and Saitama prefectures, both of which neighbor Tokyo, as part of its plan to draw up a visual guide to radiation levels across all of eastern Japan in the wake of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear crisis. In a region covering about 10,000 square hectares (38 square miles) of Chiba prefecture and including cities such as Kashiwa and Abiko, levels of cesium 134 and 137 were found in the 60,000 to 100,000 becquerel range - about the same as the least contaminated parts of Fukushima prefecture. Cesium 134 and 137 are by-products of the radiation the core of a nuclear reactor produces.

MEXT disclosed on September 30 that plutonium has been detected from the soil in Futaba-machi, Namie-machi and Iitate-mura in Fukushima Prefecture, which derived from the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant accident. According to the Ministry, it is the first detection of plutonium outside the plant

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Insane. Iwate has plenty of space to store this stuff as they deal with it themselves, over time, which we have, because this is not a priority. Using the time,workers and money to do this is certainly less stupid than to try to decontaminate the hottest hot spots but still...

Seems to me some people are looking to profit off the disaster but with no intent to actually help in the process.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reading some of these posts is like witnessing spontaneous combustion, and not just on this particular thread. Typically, the poster ostensibly comments on the article in question, which is very quickly replaced by baseless supposition, into which the short fuse of indignant outrage is placed.......BOOM!

Some people seem to revel in a sense of crisis, and if it's not there they have to manufacture it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yes burned ash will be buried in the same landfill behind Uomi (Tokyo Bay) in which Tokyo Met has been dumping radioactive ash since May.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Zichi -thanks for all the postings

One thing that mystifies me is why the Japanese government wants its waste to go around Japan?

This will push up the cancer rates of all people in Japan, in the end!

Cannot understand this maniac idea to dispose of waste so quickly without proper planning and safeguards...................

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Hatsoff. When the media is now reporting the discovery of Pu at distances of 45km away from Dai-Ichi --Who knows how far it HAS gone--, it's understandable and any amount of dismissive 'playing it cool' will NOT relay any true and real fears, dear. The fears are tangible. Your under play, pretty laughable.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20110930/t10015963921000.html

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Zichi: Independent observers have detected Pu outside of the plant before this new release by MEXT.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ah, Yong Yang, mentioned in dispatches in another thread. No, mate, not underplaying EVERYTHING. And not overplaying EVERYTHING either. Just getting things in perspective. But then again, you've always tended to see things in black and white only.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

YonYang,

Independent observers may have claimed to have discovered plutonium previously, but the statement from MEXT, at least makes it official.

This is the most significant piece in the information jigsaw puzzle since TEPCO admitted to the meltdowns of the central nuclear cores in reactors 1-3.

I believe that when the hydrogen explosion happened inside reactor building No3, it was set off by a steam explosion from within the reactor itself. I thought at best the lid must have been blown off the reactor, and at worse there was severe damage to the reactor.

The destruction was greater than in the other buildings. Looking at HD photo's of No3 buildings shows the spend fuel pool badly damaged. Most likely much of the 88 tons of spend fuel which was inside the pool is no longer there. The photo's also show fuel rods in the debris.

No3 reactor contained about 25,000 fuel rods in 500+ fuel assemblies. 6% of them or about 1500 fuel rods in 32 assemblies were plutonium MOX fuel. There was no MOX fuel in the No3 spend fuel pool, or any where else on the site.

The discovered plutonium could have only come from inside No3 reactor. Probably from the remains of the MOX fuel assemblies which hadn't melted.

This admission by MEXT shows that the condition of No3 reactor is more serious than admitted by TEPCO.

Plutonium 239 has a half life of 24,000 years.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Zichi. I would argue that the explosion at Reactor 3 was NOT a / or only a hydrogen explosion. From the outset I have argued that it was in fact a powerful exothermic one, the red flash at the time confirmed that, this widening dispersion of Pu underlines it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I have this fantasy of the waste being deposited in Ishihara Shintaro's office as a return gesture for all the debris that has spouted out of his mouth over the years.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Tokyo metropolitan government has been bombarded with complaints over its readiness to accept debris from Iwate and Miyagi prefectures.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

YongYang

I would argue that the explosion at Reactor 3 was NOT a / or only a hydrogen explosion. From the outset I have argued that it was in fact a powerful exothermic one, the red flash at the time confirmed that, this widening dispersion of Pu underlines it.

That's pretty funny! I want you to show me examples of explosions that AREN'T exothermic! Pretty much by definition massive amounts of exploding hydrogen is ridiculously exothermic. I think you need to reference the definition of exothermic!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That's what other non Toho Japanese citizens are for ? It is their obligations to share a region in need ! Indeed it is a waste of time to stage a 'show' by drafting a formal 'cooperation agreement' ...Are we supposed to share the glory & the misery of other people ( especially they are Japanese ) under the same roof ? Better off for the 'disaster refugees' from the Toho region to seek immigration in other countries !

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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