Tokyo makes solar panels mandatory for new homes built after 2025

A hailstorm would destroy those expensive panels.

Those solar companies better be Japanese, Indian, or American!

Do you mean the ones who make them or the ones who install them. The former will be China and the latter will be Japanese. This is how China infiltrates .

China is the largest producer of solar panels worldwide. In 2021, they manufacturer 75% of modules, 85% of cells, 97% of wafters, and 79% of polysilicon, according to data from the International Energy Agency.

Looked into installing Solar panels on my house, however here in Japan they're outrageously expensive and the break-even date is pointless - an earthquake or typhon may occur well before that date, and the whole investment would be gone. Furthermore, Japan appears to be well behind in Solar technology.

There was a company offering to install and essentially own the Solar Panels for x number of years, during that time, they'd maintain them too! Afterwards you had the option of taking ownership. Unfortunately, that company has gone bust.

There are externally motionless rooftop wind generators that generate 50% more power than solar.

The best financial structure especially for large apartments blocks a company that owns the solar systems and sells the power to the occupants.

https://news.panasonic.com/global/stories/873

Personally I think it’s be more efficient for those who can afford to pay for their personal climate change measures to just pay for it themselves.

Funny cause you didn’t seem to have that attitude when I suggested that the taxes be raised on people who could afford it and have them just pay for it themselves

So they should, but what does that have to do with forcing other people to pay for it?

Everybody pays for it. That’s the whole point. When anybody and everybody buys a house everybody has to share in the cost of solar panels. You yourself said in one of your previous post that you elected not to put up solar panels because of the expense around it

No wonder the government keeps wanting to hike tax rates - because people keep demanding that money be spent on their own priorities!

Well of course! That’s what tax are supposed to be spent on! On peoples priorities! And we pretty much all have the same priorities. Do you not want to control climate change? Do you not want a decent healthcare system for yourself and your family? Do you not want a decent education for your children?

It would be a very fair tax credit. People should decrease their carbon footprint 

So they should, but what does that have to do with forcing other people to pay for it?

No wonder the government keeps wanting to hike tax rates - because people keep demanding that money be spent on their own priorities!

These ESG subsidies and regs are channeling money away from people’s priorities, into other people’s priorities.

Yeah cause climate change is not a priority right?

Different people have different priorities, but there is only so much tax revenues to go around. If people wanna slash elderly health care or funding for children’s education to pay for these new climate change measures, they should be clear about it.

Personally I think it’s be more efficient for those who can afford to pay for their personal climate change measures to just pay for it themselves.

If it ends up saving money, then fine, but I'm afraid this will just add to the cost of new homes and not really save much money in the end.

Not all houses would be able to take advantage of the sun enough to warrant solar panels. I would hope that is taken into consideration. I guess privately constructed homes will not be forced to do this so al least there is some leeway there. In fact, it might make it more difficult for home builders to sell certain homes.

I'm not against solar power, BUT I'm also no on board with the whole global warming fearmongering either. The environmental whackos have too much power and influence. Let's be wise in the decisions we make.

That would be an unfunded tax credit, or a funded one that you would pay for yourself through higher taxes?

It would be a very fair tax credit. People should decrease their carbon footprint

These ESG subsidies and regs are channeling money away from people’s priorities, into other people’s priorities.

Yeah cause climate change is not a priority right?

if there is a law passed where I live where I can claim taxes BACK for installing panels I would.

That would be an unfunded tax credit, or a funded one that you would pay for yourself through higher taxes?

Or Santa Claus will pay for it?

Or Greta is gonna pay?

These ESG subsidies and regs are channeling money away from people’s priorities, into other people’s priorities. It’s really unfair, especially for a low consumption person like myself.

I opted against paying for solar panels for my lair. My electricity bills aren’t so high (eg consume less than average), and considering initial and future maintenance costs, I didn’t see it as making good sense. The shape of the roof etc would need to be redesigned to make it effective too.

Glad I got my lair sorted before these expensive new regs got me.

Although sounds like there are loopholes to jump through…

eah, and they'll also SAVE money in the medium and long term with lower energy bills.

If you believe the savings will pay for the money spent on it in the first place + maintenance even within 20 years, I have some bridges (also solar powered) in the Kanto area to sell to you.

who'll pay for installment? Japanese people who try to get home for their family.

Yeah, and they'll also SAVE money in the medium and long term with lower energy bills.

By your logic, we should all live in flammable, earthquake vulnerable wooden boxes with no insulation because of the upfront cost of quality buildings...

Solar most abundant energy source that we have no control over, we can choose to use it which creates 0 emissions or we can pretend like inhale coal burning fumes is good for your health and the earths health.

I am not sure why people still shill for coal and gas, it's finite and destroys the environment. there is no such thing as clean coal, stick your face in the smoke stacks see how long you survive.

The policy is not bad, aside from money issues. With batteries installed for each house or community unit, Tokyo can also minimise the impact of contingencies such as missile attacks on base infrastructures. The war in Ukraine proves such a backup highly critical.

Im quite amazed the number of posters here that seem to think Solar panels on the roof are almost a kind of magic with limitless power. They only really make sense for remote/rural homes in some cases.

Cons-

The current tech is too expensive even with subsidies/tax breaks. It will possibly get cheaper, but that is an even stronger argument for waiting.

You will not recoup the cost over 20 years

You will likely require more money to pay for maintenance over that 20yrs

It may not even last 20yrs

It can cause problems for your structure, again from your pocket.

You will still be largely dependent on the power companies

Pros

You can brag about having solar panels and doing something for "global warming".

The devil is in the details, what kind of buildings are included, the size, the type of solar panels and their quantity, etc. Unless this is a well designed and detailed measure this could easily become a meaningless requisite that will waste money without a real benefit.

Yes, the basic idea here is very good, but I would imagine the rules actually implemented will be ripe for abuse.

fwiw, we just built a house in the mountains. The last month has been 4.3C average outside, i.e., colder than mid winter Tokyo, Osaka or Kyoto, but we've heated just under 100 square meters of floorspace to 18C average inside with one air conditioner using 6700 yen of electricity in the last 30 days. The house has double glazing and (cheap) regular thickness walls (3.5 sun) insulated with 65mm of closed cell spray foam. Not expensive things like triple glazing or thick walls with double layers of insulation. I know there are higher standard houses out there, but they cost far more to build. Passivhaus in Japan is 140 man a tsubo. Hardly anyone can afford that. My point is that is it doesn't take much, or anything outrageously expensive, to produce a house that needs minimal heating. Its stupid to not build more of them. In Tokyo houses have such small footprints that thick walls with inches and inches of rockwool insulation would just make a house smaller.

I guess it is a good thing that they are at least trying to encourage adoption of solar power - the more people buy it, the more the technology will develop, panels will become more efficient, longer lasting and cheaper etc.

I would echo other comments about insulation in Japanese homes though. Ours was built buy one of the higher-end builders and it has around 4 to 5 cm of foam insulation panels in the outer walls - I don't know so much about it, but from what I saw, that is really at the low end when compared to other countries.

We didn't go with a solar panel - we wanted our roof space as an outdoor area for bbq or kids to play etc. - land is too expensive in the big cities to have a garden. Having to install solar would remove that option for people so that is a disadvantage. Most Japanese are probably not bothered about that though.

There's also the cost - it has got quite a bit more expensive to build a house in Japan recently and this will obviously add more - maybe an additional 2-3 million yen for a small solar system? Some of that will obviously be recouped in lower electricity bills.

but why wait until 2025, how about December 2023?

Most new houses being built between then and now have already had their permits approved.

Maybe for larger developments, but for individuals it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect be able to move in within 10 months of first contacting the home-builder - that includes making all the plans, signing the contract, getting the plans approved and full construction. From permit approval to complete building you are probably only looking at 6 months.

Great news, but should have been done long ago and should be nationwide, and only for homes with suitable roofs.

We've had them them for almost 10 years and are VERY profitable - providing on average more than double the energy we consume.

You should not sleep in a room where you are charging large batteries. They produce H₂ which is explosive requiring ventilation.

You would need to convert the DC current to AC first and then transform it to 120V to run an electric heater.

kurisupisu

But not impossible to put panels on roofs and wire up charging points to each and every apartment.

The problem is there isn't enough roof area for all the panels needed to power all the apartments. At the moment they are being used to power the common areas.

New developments are coming. Solar film for windows. Panels that can be fitted to outside walls. A major problem is the reflections from solar panels causing situations for overflying planes and others.

blue

read your linked article and also checked them out on Google. There are insufficient solar panels on the roofs to power all apartments. The article does not actually state the apartment has solar power. They might receive some amount of solar power. I counted 50 panels on one roof. An apartment would need about 7 panels. There are more than 7 apartments in that block. Solar power is being used to run Eco Cute units. They are heat pumps. They are using solar power to provide hot water saving the apartments about ¥100,000 per year.

¥90-¥100 million for an apartment.

Finally !!! Hello !!! Ive been saying years that no new bulidings should be built in Japan without solar panels.There is just too much summer sun in Japan to let it just give people 'Heat stroke'........Use it !!

@wallace

This being Japan there needs to be almost endless teeth sucking to get anything done.

But not impossible to put panels on roofs and wire up charging points to each and every apartment.

Instead of shivering to death, a low cost option to heat homes even partially would be a literal lifesaver

The majority of homes are apartment blocks. More difficult to install sufficient panels to power all the apartments.

You prefer global warming? And having your own panels means you are less beholden to the Energy Swine companies like TEPCO, so your post makes 0 sense whatsoever.

I'm totally on board with this. Even without anthropogenic climate change, I would still be 100% behind renewables, because then there will be no wars fought over energy, no environmental degradation from drilling and extraction. AND manufacturing will be more localised. WIN/WIN allround.

Though I admit, ENEOS, Osaka Gas and Mitsui is going to fund a big part of my retirement.

Rather than be beholden to power companies that have and will use their control to shut off power to wherever they want;I’d much rather be as energy self sufficient as possible.

Ina few days, I’ll be buying a 700 watt storage battery so as to keep an electric heater on all night.

Right now I’m charging batteries on the top floor of the house and the power is 100% from the sun!

Wish they did this before I bought a house so I can include it in my housing loan with good interest rates! I wonder what they will do for home owners seeking to get one installed on their roofs who don't plan on moving any time soon?

Glad they're finally doing this. But it really should've started 20 years ago like my contractor friend said at that time. Think of the millions of homes that have been built since then.

these efforts should had been done decades ago. In California, they had collected billions for decades to combat "climate change" but when it is time to show something....the government and agencies cannot show anything but a fat bank account.

@thelonius

Why don’t more people put solar panels on their roof in Japan?

Panel makers (Sharp, Kyocera) are protected with import tariffs, making solar panels 2x or more expensive here.

That is factually wrong. There are no import duties on solar panels in Japan. Neither on parts. The closest you get to an import duty is on some of the chemicals and metals used in the manufacturing of solar panels. However, using various FTAs a zero-duty preference can be used.

Reference: Japan Customs. chap 85

blue- agree with you 100%. Just thought to express a tiny bit of hope- that someone was doing something right. But maybe there is an ulterior motive behind this proposal. Wouldn't surprise me in the least

Those solar companies better be Japanese, Indian, or American!

This is simply a fool's errand (the fools being the pols who voted for this). The Devil is indeed in the details. The "data" used to support the estimates for the costs/benefits is based on highly rosy scenarios and service life of panels which are detached from reality. Sure, it looks good on paper, but it's quite fictional.

The reality is that the costs of installation will never be recouped by the owners. How do I know? I have solar panels on my roof! Unless more than 50% of the cost is outright subsidized by the local/national government (which means paid for by taxes: robbing Peter to pay Paul), it is a net minus over the life of the panels. The 20-year estimate service life is a farce(joke's on the buyer).

Furthermore, the additional cost of buying a new home will be an even higher hurdle for potential home buyers to leap. Like EVs, the wealthier will be able to make the purchases, but at the expense of the less-well-to-do.

Panel makers (Sharp, Kyocera) are protected with import tariffs, making solar panels 2x or more expensive here.

Good. Better to Made in Japan than Made in China. US and Europe are doing the same thing.

Now I know where to put my money in. Thank you lobbyist!

Great idea better than nuclear and coal! They should also have some form of battery storage made mandatory as well!

This is the green policy mandated by the globalists and Japan has no choice but to go along with this agenda of global governance that intrudes and undermines even your own personal choice.

You prefer global warming? And having your own panels means you are less beholden to the Energy Swine companies like TEPCO, so your post makes 0 sense whatsoever.

but why wait until 2025, how about December 2023?

Most new houses being built between then and now have already had their permits approved.

Roof Solar panels in Japan will cost you about $200.00 / piece while Taiwan, China, and Korea panels will cost 1/2 the price. so is it okay to install them??

""it has relied heavily on coal-burning thermal power after most of its nuclear reactors were in the wake of the 2011 Fukushima disaster.""

I am all for Solar Panels as long as they are NOT manipulated by the makers and the power companies. End this monopoly and people will start installing them.

Also we all see thousands if not millions of filthy Diesel engines in trucks and automobiles still on the streets and being manufactured till this day!!

TESLA is already making E Trucks that are not only cleaner but out preforming diesels, so why isn't truck makers in Japan pursuing that?

The devil is in the details, what kind of buildings are included, the size, the type of solar panels and their quantity, etc. Unless this is a well designed and detailed measure this could easily become a meaningless requisite that will waste money without a real benefit.

Excellent news. While I have my criticisms of Koike, this is an EXCELLENT decision! Well done!

If anyone needs a kick in the backside from the government, it's Japanese home builders. I'm reminded of that every summer, when my 5 year old Tokyo apartment is boiling hot and in winter, when it's freezing cold.

My house is the same.

Sounds like a good idea. Solar energy will only get cheaper and more efficient, hence "practical."

ABSOLUTELY! Well said Jeff!

Way to go for Japan! . . . following the California (US) solar example . . . . This is the goal: to cut down on CO2 emissions hurting the environment . . . reduce dependency on foreign fuel imports . .

absolutely! I don't mean to sound like a Negative Nancy- I really don't, but let's remember it's only Tokyo that's doing this. I don't live in Tokyo, but if there is a law passed where I live where I can claim taxes BACK for installing panels I would.

Firstly, allowing citizens control over their own lives is not on the agenda.

exactly!

Secondly, there is no chance of a backhander from thousands or millions of householders into political slush funds as is the case with centralized power generating plants.

exactly!

it’s not only new homes but millions of older homes that could benefit from solar power generation-it is not rocket science!

that's 3 in a row!

Japan, the world's fifth-largest carbon emitter, has committed to achieving carbon neutrality by 2050 but faces difficulty as it has relied heavily on coal-burning thermal power after most of its nuclear reactors were in the wake of the 2011 Fukushima disaster.

> The ‘difficulty’ is not the fossil fuel burning plants but the self-serving, feckless, greedy politicians in Tokyo!

Firstly, allowing citizens control over their own lives is not on the agenda.

Secondly, there is no chance of a backhander from thousands or millions of householders into political slush funds as is the case with centralized power generating plants.

it’s not only new homes but millions of older homes that could benefit from solar power generation-it is not rocket science!

Way to go for Japan! . . . following the California (US) solar example . . . . This is the goal: to cut down on CO2 emissions hurting the environment . . . reduce dependency on foreign fuel imports . . . .

(see also, https://www.solar.com/learn/california-solar-mandate/).

I worry about if I will still make the profit I get selling my access back to the grid…

but why wait until 2025, how about December 2023?

Why don’t more people put solar panels on their roof in Japan?

Panel makers (Sharp, Kyocera) are protected with import tariffs, making solar panels 2x or more expensive here.

Incentive schemes only work if you can put a 4KW south facing array on your roof, which excludes most houses, meaning you’ll pay more for the panels in the long run than you’ll save.

Installation is often shoddy, resulting in a leaky roof. Solar panel installation companies are dodgy.

Maybe forcing home builders to do it is the only way, but add another 1000 man yen to the price tag.

Way too late but very good decision.

The cost will be part of the whole construction cost

Excellent, economic and clean solar energy..

GO TOKYO !!..

If anyone needs a kick in the backside from the government, it's Japanese home builders. I'm reminded of that every summer, when my 5 year old Tokyo apartment is boiling hot and in winter, when it's freezing cold.

Sounds like a good idea. Solar energy will only get cheaper and more efficient, hence "practical."

Unlike other country,

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/solar/solar-tax-credit-by-state/

who'll pay for installment? Japanese people who try to get home for their family.

Even ones with really poor sunlight?