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Tokyo Medical University also manipulated male applicants' scores: sources

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The shaving of exam points for women "likely" began around 2010.... what? "Likely", this is Japan, therefore when they say "likely", it was more "likely" that it started well before then. I mean we wouldn't want to make it look any worse than it is.

18 ( +22 / -4 )

They're happy enough to take their money though. What appalling behaviour - someone keeps on trying, and instead of being neutrally pragmatic and cutting people off after three tries as a general rule, they punish their efforts by stealing their points! I hope they get taken to court, and that the people they scammed wipe the floor with them.

20 ( +21 / -1 )

The medical college believed female doctors often resign or take long leave after getting married or giving birth, leading to potential shortfalls, sources said earlier.

No shite Sherlock. So educate and train more, so there is no potential shortfall!

There are far too many places in Japan that have a severe shortage of qualified doctors, so don't go and say BS like this!

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Private medical schools do not have to be the same with national medical schools.

-26 ( +1 / -27 )

If gender discrimination is mattered, all the corporations in Japan must be criticized. Government offices are no exceptions.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

Lol this is their best comeback for their blatant sexism? What a joke!!

8 ( +12 / -4 )

This just gets worse and worse, literally they were investigating one case of corruption, then discovered a bigger one and now it’s like watching dominos fall.

I feel bad for the students, the rep of this university is going to be tarnished for years to come by this. Wholesale corruption of the entrance system is about the worst thing you can do to undermine confidence in a University.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Tokyo Medical University subtracted entrance exam points for male applicants who were taking the test for at least the fourth time to curb admissions of such examinees

I wouldn't see anything wrong with this if the applicants were informed of this in advance.

There are far too many places in Japan that have a severe shortage of qualified doctors

Hmmm, then wouldn't it make sense to favor applicants that are more likely to remain in the profession.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

"The medical college believed female doctors often resign or take long leave after getting married or giving birth, leading to potential shortfalls, sources said earlier."

Here's a thought: 

Provide better childcare so women can stay in the workforce after having children;

Make the hours of ALL jobs in Japan easier, so salarymen/women, doctors, etc., can have lives outside of work, and two-parent families can better negotiate jobs AND family time (so they can stagger who is at home with the kids, who is working, etc. if need be);

Stop assuming it's the woman's job to raise the kids and the man's job to be at work 16+ hours a day.

20 ( +21 / -1 )

Stop assuming it's the woman's job to raise the kids and the man's job to be at work 16+ hours a day.

And that is the crux of the matter. Teachers, nurses and doctors often work, for example, 60 or 80% of the job in Britain and are paid accordinly, yet this idea seems beyond Japan.

Schopenhauer - I see you're still here defending the indenfensible. You've now made about 10 posts defending the university. Why does this story mean so much to you?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

This is a perfect example of how Japanese society is eating itself alive from the inside & the outside, I am not sure if Japan will be able to turn these problems back, may be too far gone.

As for graduating doctors the sensible thing to do make sure they be DOCTORS for a minimum number of years once they graduate, if a person drops out early( ie they just want to quit) they get an extra bill for their education.

Like Maria  said above, instead of taking peoples $$ & dreams, simply LIMIT the number of times you can take the test!

There are ways to deal with various issues & put it OUT THERE so all know the score, this devious behind the scenes  crap needs to go pronto!

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Private medical schools do not have to be the same with national medical schools. when they purposely target smarter women who scored higher than men in these exams that pure discrimination. why should these women who worked hard studying to get into medical school be denied because some recalcitrant misogynistic fools decide that only 30% of spaces should be awarded to women regardless of their talents.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

The TMU should be closed, there is so much fraud and corruption their courses and degrees are tainted and cannot be trusted.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

No suspended sentences for these geriatric criminals! They destroyed the dreams of many young persons!

10 ( +11 / -1 )

So wrong!

10 ( +11 / -1 )

well not sure why could not just specify that they reserve the right no to admit applicant deemed incompatible( for whatever reasons they feel like ).

as private uni , they should well be allowed to do so without making applicants feel like they are not knowledgeable enough .

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

This is symptomatic of the culture of impunity which reigns in Japan.

These old blokes believe that everything (cheating, lies, deception etc) can be justified/excused if it fits their narrative and/or what they perceive to be in the general public interest (in this case the pathetic 'but female docs take longer maternity leave and therefore disrupt the whole system' excuse).

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Why is this a surprise? Tokyo University always has about the same ratio of boys to girls with girls being around 20%. That is impossible! Girls around the world and in my university classes on average perform better on tests than boys. There are more women going to medical school and law school in America than men. Cambridge and Oxford have even discussed affirmative action for boys because girls out perform on entrance exams 60 to 40. Every university in Japan blocks women from entering.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

This wouldn't be so bad if it applied to all applicants and was publicised in advance. At my university students taking resits have to score more than 70% to pass, compared with 60% the first time around. The medical school could take a similar approach, increasing the pass mark by 10% for every resit. Sneaky, underhand manipulation of the marks is out of order though.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

If gender discrimination is mattered, all the corporations in Japan must be criticized. Government offices are no exceptions.

Wow, so just because someone else is guilty of something it's an acceptable reason to excuse your own actions?

I hope you come to realize just how dumb that sounds.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

as private uni , they should well be allowed to do so without making applicants feel like they are not knowledgeable enough . and Im sure being private they still get government support through the taxpayer, if your in Japan you follow Japans laws and that includes laws against discrimination, the only places where J laws have no jurisdiction in Japan are foreign countries embassies. Last I checked Tokyo Medical University  wasnt classified as a foreign embassy. dont like it move your school to some island in the pacific where you can make your own laws.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The gov support is less than 12% for private uni,

http://www.zam.go.jp/n00/pdf/nk002002.pdf

Laws against discrimination? As long as they publish that women quota is only 30% , it is not really discrimination , just like kindergartens will accept only matching students and so on... , you want equality ? Go to public school and uni

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Now how can I feel safe when I go to the hospital. Maybe the doctor was a second rate student who got in by parent's connections.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Alex Einz

Just because you're honest about it doesn't mean it isn't discrimination. Discrimination is being treated different for reasons you can't control, honesty or not.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@Red suns: Interesting article about the imbalance between female and male doctors in the UK and how their career choices have a potentially negative effect on the amount of their labor available to the public. Assuming a level playing field, Brits will simply need to deal with the results as they come. For this case in Japan it’s an abuse for the female and male students who play by the rules to have their efforts discounted for reasons based solely on arbitrary social engineering. Let the market decide who becomes a doctor.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I have a feeling this newest revelation is just the tip of an iceberg. Talk about tanking your trustworthy reputation.

And despite research that female doctors have a slightly but significantly lower patient mortality rate than male ones: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2593255

But of course this is not about patient outcomes nor is it really about this, I'll venture:

The medical college believed female doctors often resign or take long leave after getting married or giving birth, leading to potential shortfalls, sources said earlier.

I think that's an excuse. It has to be about preserving that sexist male-female ratio "same as it's always been"

Even if this statement is honest, it's a lazy crude way to deal with the problem of the work demands being too hard on working moms. Why not work towards making it more reasonable for everyone regardless of sex? Too hard to do that I guess, so the easy corrupt way around was taken. Begs the questions, how many other institutions and companies are doing this with their entrance exams?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Tbh the fact that people (Japanese men who are in power) is sexist / prejudice doesn't surprise me anymore. It is more the fact how these blainty discriminatory policies get put into place in the first place. I mean I hope it's not 1 or 2 dudes does wtf they want and then it's all forbidden to see or change

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And you know the application/testing non-refundable fees for many of these schools are 30,000yen plus. So essentially they are making nice extra money from these people taking the test multiple times.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Another day in Japan more Oyajis.....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The gov support is less than 12% for private uni, you want equality ? Go to public school and uni

private schools arent above the law, you want to discriminate then hand back all of that taxpayer funded support for all the years you've been discriminating against women, Im guessing it would be a considerable amount.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Finally the issue of discrimination and bullying culture in Japan is exposed -- worldwide! I am very happy to see the international news media also picking this story up.

Japan as a country has a tremedous opportunity now to reflect and discuss what type of country they want to create. I often ask people living here how they describe their country (Japan). There is a large difference in the responses from those who have traveled internationally those who have not -- especially those who have traveled and studied in a multi-cultural society.

I look forward to seeing society, especially the youth, in Japan follow through, take charge and develop a country that will serve society, not control it.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I don't want a doctor who needed 4+ visits to the exam board to pass a test. Doesn't bode too well for their competence in all the other areas they'll need to be fluent in along their career.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I don't want a doctor who needed 4+ visits to the exam board to pass a test. Doesn't bode too well for their competence in all the other areas they'll need to be fluent in along their career.

That may be the case, but then the institution should limit the number of times one can take the test. Taking applicants' money and letting them think they have a fair shot at getting in is fraud.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

There is a crazily hard work custom behind this discrimination. And doctor is one of the worst crazily hardest work custom in Japan and most of women's bodies cannot bear it.

So if you want to eliminate this discrimination, you need to eliminate the crazily hard work custom itself first.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

MY wife this morning went on about female-docs here not doing the harder medical jobs etc & this being one of the reasons for the behind the scenes manipulations. clearly not the best way to go about things. But then Red Suns at 2:50pm puts out a link that pretty much EXACLTY says what the Mrs did to me  this morning.....that is female Docs aren't doing much of the heavy lifting, BUT still take advantage of the costly education....

Like I said earlier in this thread:

As for graduating doctors the sensible thing to do make sure they be DOCTORS for a minimum number of years once they graduate, if a person drops out early( ie they just want to quit) they get an extra bill for their education.

So, if doc's male or female quit early for lame reasons, work much less hours etc, then THEY need to pay back a HIGHER amount of their educations

Now the above doesn't excuse what this Uni is doing at all, I merely suggest the Uni's clean up their act & be more upfront/honest AND students MUST take more responsibility for their actions! The article Red Suns linked shows a large percentage of female doc's are milking their medical system in a very bad unsustainable way.

Folks, just need to keep things in the open, honest & then YOU decide if you want to play in the medical sand box or not!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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