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Tokyo to ban parents from physically punishing children

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Despite the "ban," the planned ordinance lacks punitive clauses.

So in other words, an other useless piece of paper and waste of ink and computer memory that nobody will care about.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

Sounds great. So now you can officially let kids be the parents and parents be the kids.

-1 ( +15 / -16 )

Great, and how are you going to enforce it? Perhaps a free dial number so neighbors can snitch on each other?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Once again a PR move by a government entity to appease public outrage over an incident of a preventable crime.

Not to mention this places the blame totally on the parents here, but what about the government agencies charged with overlooking the welfare of the children?

17 ( +20 / -3 )

More paper talk. This needs to go much further and give child welfare authorities much more power to remove children and more detailed investigations before the children are allowed back into abusice environments. Of course, it is hard for the children to comprehend it is for their own good and these kinds of mental scars never really heal.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Get ready for a hyper "me first, I'm special" crybaby generation that lacks any and all discipline.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

Without punitive clauses, it is meaningless.

Furthermore, what is the definition of "physically punishing" and "verbally abusing"? I mean, is making members of a school club team do extra laps "physical punishment"?

And does this cover teachers / coaches / school staff?

18 ( +19 / -1 )

Not to mention this places the blame totally on the parents here, but what about the government agencies charged with overlooking the welfare of the children?

The blame for child abuse is totally on the parents. Are cops to blame for crime? Are the trains to blame for gropers? Are cars to blame for accidents?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Let's start with making it legal for police and/or child welfare officials to enter the home of suspected child abuse (and pension abusers) without the permission of the home owner.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This is no big deal to me. I've never physically punished my kids. You can be strict with kids without hitting them.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

How are they going to enforce this law? Are they going to monitor each household to see if the parents verbally abuse their kids, and how do they even define verbal abuse?

They should create a more clearly defined law against child abuse, and then require every school to have a psychologist who if determine that a kid has been abused to contact the government agency. However, you would also have to train teachers to teach kids that its OK to seek help, and potentially assist in detecting which kids might have family issues and direct them to the school counselor.

I doubt they would be able to do all that given that despite the ban on corporal punishment, some teachers still physically punish their students. Maybe they should focus on law enforcement first.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

So if a child falsely accuses a parent of abuse, will the parent be detained and grilled until a confession is given?

S

4 ( +11 / -7 )

I believe this is the wrong move in the face of a heart rending incident.

Certainly abusive corporal discipline is wrong and should be punished. I also agree with Strangerland that you can be strict with children without physical discipline, and hopefully this should be the norm.

However there are some children who don't respond to anything but smacks, swats etc. This type of discipline can be administered moderately and without excessive anger until the child learns inner control and to respond to non physical discipline.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Better idea: ban government officials from making excuses after the pleas of abused children are ignored.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

ITT, anecdotal storeis about how "I was smacked and turned out fine".

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Despite the "ban," the planned ordinance lacks punitive clauses.

Seriously? Is this the best they can do for all of those abused and dead children? "Let's make a law to "safeguard" the welfare of children, but not really enforce it."

This makes as much sense as handing a 3 year old child this new "ordinance on child abuse prevention, banning parents and other guardians from physically punishing and verbally abusing children" on paper. It will end up on the floor all crumpled up and ignored. I'm sure they can come up with a better ordinance than that with stricter penalties, rules and regulations.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

If your only way to control your kids is to physically punish them you are not very good at parenting.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

All sounds legit on the surface, but a blanket ban like this is not only unenforceable but there are too many possible variables for it to be practical. I get that they wanted to do something after this latest horror story, but it’s a simple band aid approach for a gaping wound with deep complex social and psychological factors at play.

Blanket banning of discipline outright is definately not going to help the kids, if anything it will do more damage. Kids need tough love and discipline, like REALLY need it for there own future mental well-being.

There’s no simple solutions to complex problems basically. More social workers, education programs , teacher training and support networks would be better than passing on the problem to the realm of law enforcement. It’s a nasty one though that may get worse as the ranks of the working poor increase. With massive job displacement about to occur through AI , things could get rather messy . Hope someone has a viable plan, someowhere!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I've been watching Japanese sempai clobber their kohai long enough to realize that I live in a country with a punishment culture. But for many decades it's been gradually phased out, with nothing to replace it. What we are left with is a class of recalcitrant fifteen-year-olds. Try reasoning calmly with a person who is clearly wrong, but stubbornly unwilling to admit it: that's the way things are today. All that's left to deal with them is public shaming, and you can only take that so far in an anonymous big city like Tokyo.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

spare the rod, spoil the child

more nonsense, and people wonder why our youth today have no respect for authority or rules

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

What about public and private school teachers? What about introducing the policy nation-wide?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

more cretinism, instead of forcing child services to actually do their job, they introduce absolute idiotism.

physical punishment is a requirement for proper upbringing.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

These measures never work. Even with punitive clauses. In NZ they introduced an 'anti-smacking' law. Severe child abuse is worse now than ever before. If anything it forces this sort of behavior into the shadows. In the meantime regular parents are having random visits by social services because of overzealous nosy do gooders disapproving with the way a child was pulled out of the way of an oncoming bus (for example). Normal (good parents) become paranoid & the bad ones carry on doing what they've always done.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

These measures never work. Even with punitive clauses. In NZ they introduced an 'anti-smacking' law. Severe child abuse is worse now than ever before. If anything it forces this sort of behavior into the shadows. In the meantime regular parents are having random visits by social services because of overzealous nosy do gooders disapproving with the way a child was pulled out of the way of an oncoming bus (for example). Normal (good parents) become paranoid & the bad ones carry on doing what they've always done.

Amen to that.

Reasonable physical punishment is appropriate in rare occasions for repetitive poor behavior or where a stark lesson needs to be learned because the behavior could lead to physical injury. Lets not forget that toddlers do not have a full grasp of the world, or a language, and a light smack on the hand is something that will be remembered. Who doesn't remember having time out?

The key word here is reasonable. A reasonable adult would not use a closed fist, a weapon, withholding of food/water for a prolonged period etc.

The simple fact is that these people don't care, and changing the law will have no effect on them. Only the law abiding, loving parents who are seeking to gently correct poor behavior

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

"Despite the "ban," the planned ordinance lacks punitive clauses."

Hahaha... I KNEW this was going to be in the first few lines of the story. More lip-service laws that will allow politicians to claim they have done Something and pat themselves on the back, leaving it to cities to do Nothing about any abuse they come across. How will this be any different if no punitive measures are taken? Welfare services can now do as they have been able to do for some time -- share info -- but Always choose not to. A can say to B, "Hey, did you know Tanaka-san is beating his kid?" B can say, "No, I didn't. THanks for telling me. What can we do about it?" A will say, "Nothing. Just wanted to let you know."

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And I meant to add, punitive measures need to be the children being taken away from families... PERMANENTLY, or at least until the families can prove, Under supervision and after rehabilitation, that they can cope. Sending the kids back home and praying you won't find a body the next day never seems to work.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

olman13: "spare the rod, spoil the child. more nonsense, and people wonder why our youth today have no respect for authority or rules"

Why would you have respect for authorities who come up with NO means for protecting you? It's not hte children who need the "rod" you speak of, it's the parents. We are talking about CHILD ABUSE, Oldman! Kids literally being beaten and tortured TO DEATH, and you say, "spare the rod, spoil the child" suggesting there is not enough of it already? THAT view should certainly not be respected, old man or not. These politicians who make rules with no teeth despite kids dying as a result deserve zero respect. The kids aren't the problem here. Or are you saying that the little girl who was forced to stand in the cold on the balcony and woken up at night should have been beaten more?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

should do more parenting education classes and less government control.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

A lot of comments from those who don't believe in physical punishment, just come across as "my kids are angels".

My now 18 year old son, at 7, got an ass whooping from me, once. Right in the middle of the supermarket, when he screamed the place down and threw candies he wanted, but I said no to, on the floor. The entire place stood still like a scene from a cowboy movie where a stranger walks into a saloon. He never did it again and grew up fine.

For the most part, physical punishment is not necessary, but on rare occasions, it can make a world of difference.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

A lot of comments from those who don't believe in physical punishment, just come across as "my kids are angels".

I can't speak for others, but my kids certainly aren't angels. But I've still never had the need to be physical with them. I don't rule it out as a possibility, but I'll try to avoid it forever if I can.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The blame for child abuse is totally on the parents. Are cops to blame for crime? Are the trains to blame for gropers? Are cars to blame for accidents?

So for all the thousands of kids who are under the care of the government here you are going to "blame" the parents for any abuse that they may be subject to? Your examples are so far off the mark it's almost ludicrous!

Using your argument then the parents are responsible for the people who commit crimes, including the gropers, and the people who drive the cars as well! Not to mention that the "abusers" parents are responsible for their off-spring abusing a child!

If you think it's all on the parents alone, you have a very narrow view of just what kind of abuse kids face!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

And to think, this morning on the train I saw a mother smack her 7 year old son on the head for being noisy on the train. A leopard cannot change its spots.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Parents who are truly abusive will not be swayed by this.

They wear 2 faces, one for public, and one for home.

Social services need to listen to abused children's stories in schools, 

away from the home, recognize signs of abuse, and act on it.

A parent swatting their kid in public for being a pain in the pinfeather 

is not the target to hit.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

You can ban actions all you like but it doesn't really stop people doing it. As others have stated, more emphasis should be given to the powers that authorities have in following cases up before they get too bad.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I do hope that the day will come when corporal punishment becomes a thing of the past. If you start early enough teaching your kids by your actions and by explaining to them why they can do “this” but not “that”, show them your appreciation when you are happy with what they have done, you will most likely never need to punish them physically.

Parents need to be consistent and patient. Children, parents, everibody has bad moments. But you do not beat your partner because she/he was upset with her nosy coworker and eventually let her frustration out in front of you, do you?

Parenting courses help to understand the developmental stages of the child and learn parenting techniques which help both you and children to get through every stage rather smoothly.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

corporal punishment will never become a thing of the past, unless you plan to build jails for 10 year olds.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

corporal punishment will never become a thing of the past, unless you plan to build jails for 10 year olds.

Nah, just for the parents who beat on them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Belrick,

My now 18 year old son, at 7, got an ass whooping from me, once. Right in the middle of the supermarket, when he screamed the place down and threw candies he wanted, but I said no to, on the floor. The entire place stood still like a scene from a cowboy movie where a stranger walks into a saloon. He never did it again and grew up fine.

For the most part, physical punishment is not necessary, but on rare occasions, it can make a world of difference.

That's not abuse, not all physical action is an abuse.

When you get physical because of YOUR anger rather than to discipline your kid, that's abuse,

When you don't know how much is too much, that's a problem, but as long as you know what exactly you are doing and why you are doing, and in control, and most importantly, there's trust between parents and kids, then I don't see any issue here.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Discipline is discipline and violence is violence. They are not one in the same. Until people are educated in the difference, child abuse will continue.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Abusive parents do not need "punishment". They need help, counseling, to deal with their own issues and become functioning, better people.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Someone needs a good hard SMACK !

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Despite the "ban," the planned ordinance lacks punitive clauses.

Other than personal principle, then, what incentive is there for people to obey the ordinance?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I was going to comment on the lack of punitive clauses, but other posters beat me to it. Not surprised in the least. Japan is such a backwards country. First world country run by a third world government.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"And I meant to add, punitive measures need to be the children being taken away from families... PERMANENTLY, or at least until the families can prove...

Um, innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of democracy. One should not have to prove they didn't do it, the onus is on the accuser or liaison (child, teacher, parent, etc) to have enough evidence for trial. The judge (jury in some areas) then decides guilt or innocence. If we give up the innocent until proven guilty (especially with media issues), we can kiss democracy goodbye.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tokyo to ban parents from physically punishing children

Well, this isn't going to work out the way they want it to. Small amounts of physical punishment, within reason, are effective at correcting the behaviour of especially unruly children. It is very rarely necessary and should only be reserved for the most extreme of cases, but as long as the child knows such punishment is a possibility, then they'll have to think twice about acting up.

Over here in Britain, physical punishment of children isn't just banned, it's demonized, to the point where many parents are afraid to tell their children off using just words. Since this viewpoint on child punishment has emerged, youth crime rates have risen dramatically and continue to do so. Youths in Britain (in general, though there are exceptions) don't respect their parents, their teachers, or even the police. Where I work, we frequently get kids loitering in groups, threatening customers with physical vioalnce, vandalising property and damaging customer vehicles. The police know this, and yet nothing is done about it. All the people with the power to do something know about this behaviour, and yet nothing gets done. The youths won't even listen to the police, so nothing can be done, at least as long as we continue to shy away from proper punishment. The same will happen in Tokyo and other parts of Japan that enforces this ban.

Now the anti-spanking crowd will come at me with claims that needing to spank children is a sign of bad parenting. That just shows ignorance. Parents are not the only source of influence on children. TV, movies, games, music, books, internet content, other parents, and indeed other adults in general: all of these have the capacity to influence children. The parents are just one piece of a much larger picture, and against so many other pieces there's very little they can do over all. Even if we somehow managed to clean up all forms of entertainment and hobbies, we'd still need to fix the problem of immature adults, and those have been around since the dawn of mankind. Sometimes, spanking is necessary, no matter how much we might dislike the idea. These child abuse cases however come about through parents who take physical punishment too far, or else come to enjoy doing it. A blanket ban on physical punishment isn't the solution to the problem, it will only generate further problems down the line.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Useless. Physical assault is illegal, parents shouldn't get a free pass to break this law.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It depends. I don’t think spanking your kid is necessarily bad, sometimes I think it’s necessary, especially if you want to get the kids attention, I was spanked and it didn’t scare me, not all the time. Of course you want to sit down with your kids, talk to them, educate them the best way can before taking the next step. Spanking is not for everyone, iif you don’t need to use it, that’s great, but if all else fails and there is no other option then that is a good tool to have as a last resort method.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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