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Transsexual denied recognition as father

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despite the fact sterile men are routinely recognised as the fathers of babies born using artificial insemination.

This is key, and I hope the guy takes this further.

16 ( +17 / -0 )

despite the fact sterile men are routinely recognised as the fathers of babies born using artificial insemination.

Yet mothers are not recognized as being parents if they use a surrogate. Japan has some pretty archaic laws regarding what constitutes being a parent and it makes a HUGE difference when these kids try to get into schools and their futures.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Despite being a man, can I register myself as the mother of a child, and is it discrimination if the onsen staff bar me from entering the woman's zone?

-29 ( +5 / -34 )

Finally Japan is doing something right! Sex changes are are abomination and don't change a person's sex, they just destroy it.

-36 ( +7 / -43 )

@shiofuki totally agreee with you when somebody changes there sex (woman to man) it is only cosmetic. SHE will always still be genetically a woman, will never be able to reproduce with another woman, so until science can fully change a person completely into the opposite sex then they should legally stay what they are period.

-34 ( +3 / -35 )

As much as we can tolerate GID yes. But I have to agree that the only way there can be a 100% successful sex change operation is to make a female/male clone of the person with GID and move their brain into the other body... which with our current medical abilities is quite impossible.

It always makes me wonder, should an operation as I mentioned be possible would they still feel like like going back to the other gender? "Oh I'm a woman trapped in a mans body!" (after such an operation) "I'm now a man trapped in a womans body!!!"

Evil thrives on confusion and deception.

-30 ( +1 / -31 )

But they don't change their sex, zichi. That's the problem.

-25 ( +2 / -27 )

Neversubmit, shiofuki, wtfjapan, HonestDictator; you guys have SO much to learn about psychology and human sexuality. Go back to the books and READ about this stuff before you comment again so that you prevent yourselves from looking even more backward and stupid than you already have.

20 ( +23 / -2 )

The more we travel down this path the more confusing society will come.

Of course we are born human, but if somebody considers himself mentally to be an Eagle are we going to change their legal status to that of an Eagle, along will the associated rights and privileges, ie living in a zoo for free, not having to pay tax, crossing borders without a passport etc.

We cannot allow legal conditions and factors to be determined solely by the perceptions of each individual of themselves.

As another example, I may wish to have Swiss citizenship, which is a legal status. But it can't be granted solely on my own perception of my citizenship. By simply perceiving myself to be Swiss, I can't become Swiss. It depends on where I was born and who my parents are. That's the reality of the world.

We are who we are.

-25 ( +4 / -29 )

We cannot allow legal conditions and factors to be determined solely by the perceptions of each individual of themselves.

We are who we are.

If you fail to see the extremem irony of both these concepts being posited by the same person in the same post, there is no hope for you.

You have managed to completely contradict your own orgument in a few sentences.

20 ( +20 / -0 )

The old farts strike again. A ridiculously antiquated, anti-family stance by Tokyo Family Court.

Legally, the state has given its blessing to both the father's gender reassignment and the parents' marriage.

Their situation is no different, therefore, to a couple choosing to adopt.

A child's welfare and self worth is at stake. TFC should serve the family, not their own outdated morality.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

@shiofuki

What is a abomination, is narrow minded people! Obviously you don't have any Gay, Lesbian, Trans Friends.

Japan has a Long way to go in regards to GLBTQQIA issues.....

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Archaic is spot on! Brings back memories of 1983. When my oldest son was born, a child born between a foreign man and a Japanese mother could not be registered as a Japanese citizen. Things changed in '85 and it took triplicates of seventeen different forms to get him Japanese citizenship!

13 ( +13 / -0 )

@ R2D2

What is a abomination, is narrow minded people! Obviously you don't have any Gay, Lesbian, Trans Friends.

I have a couple of gay acquaintances, and accept them as they are. I have no problem with their being gay as long as they keep it to themselves. If you swing that way, and can't help it, then I don't see why you should be persecuted for it. BUT, I don't think it should be lauded as normal the way it is in many western countries. It isn't normal. It just 'is'. I do, however, object most strongly to gay/lesbian couples being allowed to adopt babies and young children. Children should have a right to grow up as heterosexual at least. If their 'parents' are gay, they will see that as normal, when it isn't. Politically incorrect, I know, but there you have it. I don't agree with gay marriage either. Do you know, some people call me right wing. Can't see it myself.

Trans friends? I hope not!

One is born as one is by the grace of whatever God one believes in. There's a reason for that. Just because it has become possible to mutilate sexual organs and take hormones to give a vague appearance of the opposite sex doesn't give up the right to interfere.

-22 ( +0 / -22 )

Typo - '...give US the right to interfere'.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

I have no problem with their being gay as long as they keep it to themselves

What does that mean, keep it to themselves? Can you elaborate?

I do, however, object most strongly to gay/lesbian couples being allowed to adopt babies and young children. ... If their 'parents' are gay, they will see that as normal,

You have put the word parents in inverted commas, which suggests you don't think people who have adopted their children can really be considered their parents. Is that right? Anyone who's been adopted, has no parents except the birth parents who gave them up / abused them so much they were taken into care, and so on? Interesting.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

The bigot squad will aways seek limits and ways to control the lives of others who they can't accept.

Zichi -- spot on. In an article in Japan Times it states that the Japanese Constitution guaranteses there should be no discriminaton based on sex, but obviously these judges decided to create a loophole they could fit their narrow view of the world into. But th root problem of all this, of course, is the antiquated Family Registry system in Japan which the justice system is fighting hard to make keep relevant in the 21st, altough it clearly is decades behind the times.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

GLBTQQIA issues

Are we speaking English here?

Do you know why a normal word for these "issues" doesn't exist in English nor any other language.

It's because for millennia mankind in all cultures lived just fine without any of these new trendy distinctions on types of humans.

These "new" types of people are the product of society falling apart. A Brave New World if you will.

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

@ Maria

A bit on edge are we?

I'll elaborate. I don't mind people being gay as long as it isn't rammed down people's throats the way it seems to be nowadays. Yes, you're gay. We get it. But they seem to feel the need to declare it to one and all, all the time. You don't get hetero couples announcing their heterosexuality and sticking it on people's faces. It just is as it is. Same with gays. If you are you are, be that way and stop drawing attention to yourselves because you know it isn't really right, because that's where all the shouting and bawling about it comes from.

In answer to your other question, I don't think gay/lesbian couples can be considered parents, no. A regular couple, and you can drop the inverteds. Does that help?

-19 ( +2 / -21 )

Thank you for asking after my welfare, shiofuki. I'm fine, thanks, and not at all on edge. It's a lovely sunny day, isn't it! although a bit chilly, especially early morning and in the evenings. Would you believe I got a hot-water bottle out 2 nights ago? Some people say one should wear socks in bed for extra warmth, but I find that they always slip halfway my feet - a hot water bottle provides more all-round warmth.

I don't think gay/lesbian couples can be considered parents,

Ah. So even if one of the couple is the biological parent, they can't be parents?

So your problem is with the same-sex partnership, that 2 women or 2 men cannot raise a child in a relationship where the child can refer to them as his/her parents. Is that right?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

There is no confusion or societal disruption as long as we're mature, intelligent and can adapt to change. Sure, a lot of people aren't, but I think on the whole the majority of us can get over these kinds of issues and not be hung up by gender identity problems by some people. Interestingly a lot of critical commentary has echoes of the abolition of slavery and granting universal suffrage etc. What's the big deal?**

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"Mother" and "Father" will eventually become obsolete designations. "Parent" suffices for any and all persons who take responsibility for raising a child. The shape of ones organs is irrelevant to this noble calling.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

This is political correctness gone berserk. It is all well and good if some person wants to have a sex change and present him/herself as something else... as long as children are involved.

But nobody is asking the child her if he/she agrees with this societal engineering. Does she want to have two moms? Two dads? Or other combinations, who knows what is next on the horizon? I think PC should stop where childrens rights are concerned.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

shiofuki-san,

You write:

Finally Japan is doing something right! Sex changes are are abomination and don't change a person's sex, they just destroy it.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I would like to know if you can give some examples of people whose lives were destroyed by a sex change operation.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I think people are getting on topic... The main thing here is Japan is STILL stuck in a world that is 20+ behind the rest of the world in many things. laws.. way they run the government.. etc.. This is just another check mark I can put down as Japan not growing or even contemplating the fact that world is changing... All I say is japan needs to grow up and stop trying NOT to change..

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The couple was married in 2008 and the law was passed in 2004 recognising sex change couple as husband and wife. This report did not reported or the court had not stated the reason for not recognising the husband as the father of the child. Until this had been explained this stood as a clear sign of discrimination.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The world is changing rapidly. Unfortunately, Japan seems to be a few more steps behind most other countries.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I do hope this father?? Mother?? Father/Mother?? Gets his/her time in a court of justice here on the J islands.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Jesus the stupidity is strong on this one, both by the judge of the case in questions, and various posters on here.

This is a question of discrimination, nothing else. If Japan recognises the rights of transexuals to be considered as their 'new' gender (in this case, a woman who is now a man), does Japanese law mean that they must be treated equally in all cases? I don't know the answer to that question.

If so, and if there is a precendent that husbands of wives who have children by way of AI are 'routinely' recognised as the legal fathers, then the argument should be pretty clear to make.

It seems to me (is it my own ignorance?) that too often in Japan judges just make a ruling on whatever their own personal opinions are, regardless of the actual laws or precedents in place.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

1) The man is recognized as male by the state. 2) The state allows non-reproducing men to be registered as parents.

Logically, it follows that he should be allowed to be register as a father.

I can't see what "moral" purpose denying him that right serves.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

To add to my previous post, it seems that the judge ruled based on the fact that the man is physically incapable of reproduction.

However, surely some (the vast majority) of men routinely recognised as the legal father of children conceived from donated sperm are incapable of reproduction.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

One thing that really pisses me off about the whole legal parenthoood/adoption deal in Japan is that it's perfectly acepptable for grown people to adopt other grown people as their dependents, in order to protect their family businesses - the BBC reported recently that c. 90% of adoptions are this kind.

Meanwhile, children's homes are filled with parentless children, whose parents won't release them for adoption due to the importance of bloodlines, yet can't be bothered to try to take care of them themselves. (Sorry, I know in some cases it's a single parent who can't make ends meet, but that is where the govt. should step in to help her/him.)

Yet this sodding judge thinks that a man wanting to be a father to his wife's biological child is immoral? Tosser.

In Japan, on occasion, one partner in a same-sex relationship will adopt the other, to clear up any inheritance issues after the death of one.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Social norms are there for a reason. Compromise or give ground on one issue and it's just a matter of time until society fails to function.

Good on the court!

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Compromise or give ground on one issue and it's just a matter of time until society fails to function.

Yes. That's what they said about getting rid of segregation and the caste system - civil liberties'n' that kind of nonsense, who needs them!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

shiofukiNOV. 04, 2012 - 07:00AM JST Finally Japan is doing something right! Sex changes are are abomination and don't change a person's sex, they just destroy it.

I'll join the thumbs down bandwagon myself. It's good they denied this person as a Father. Don't really care about these 2 adults, it's the child that I would be most concerned about. Imagine growing up like that?

This is all against the morals of society and what is a normal family. 2 men can't have a child, and that goes for 2 women as well.

They should live their lives the way they want to live, but don't demand to have and bring up children through artificial insemination.

Leave that for normal man and woman who can't have children. They are piggy backing on this lame excuse and calling it discrimination.

The way things are going today, in another 20 - 30 years, I bet incest will become legalized, and there will be 3, 4 people in one marriage! and I hope to be old and dead by then.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

right on! if people are happy and smiling doing what they love, and not breaking the law, that's all that matters. God [sic] for them.

Double standards eh, southsakai?

Which is more important, do you think, to raise a child in a loving, happy family environment, or in a heterosexual environment?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

But the Tokyo Family Court ruled the child must be registered as if he was born out of wedlock as the man is physically not capable of reproduction

It's their business to check that now ? They'll be busy.

there will be 3, 4 people in one marriage!

That would be a novelty ?

Social norms are there for a reason.

What are social norms ? There are LAWS. And laws says he's married to a woman that gave birth, which the law defines as a natural mother. Laws also say the husband of the natural mother is the father. That has been the Japanese written law for about 150 years, and that was already the case before.

is it discrimination if the onsen staff bar me from entering the woman's zone?

I think so because the bachans enter the man's zone, don't they ? Take your case to court, if you're that hima...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@zichi You always breath zen into such topics. I agree with you everything you have said.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@honestdictator 'Evil thrives on confusion and deception' I smell religion here. Bigots also use scripture to defend racism, sexism, homophobia and any other all too human grubby prejudices.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"But nobody is asking the child her if he/she agrees with this societal engineering."

Nobody asks a child if he or she wants to have parents who abuse their children, use drugs, steal, lie, philander, or behave like a generally lousy parent of the worst order. Yet these type of folks are alowed to completely destroy the pyches of children everyday with nary a word from folks like you who style themselves as champions for the poor, unheeded children of the world the moment you bring your warped interpretation of religion into the mix.

Show you a parent who actually wants the momentous responsibility of raising a child and if they don't fit into your Babylonian interpetation of how the world should work, you balk?

Please.

Your irrational, indefensible religious hypocrisy is showing again.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I personally have no interest in the religious or "ethical" side of this.

I think, that the judges judgement was accurate. The reason being, that I think a birth certificate should contain the name of the biological parents, or nothing, if that information is unavailable. It is a legal document, and should be treated as such.

In real life, having anyone other than the biological parents on the birth certificates can cause massive problems. For example, lets imagine this child, one day, has medical problems which are hereditary, the child needs to know the truth about his biological father, yet there is no information available about him. Personally I also feel the birth certificate needs to contain the truth (legally) about the child's conception.

However, this does NOT mean that the transsexual will not be a good father to the child, Im not implying that at all. BUT biologically he/she is not the father, and never will be. Is legal adoption not a possibility here?

All of you are getting so upset about the rights of this transsexual, however no-one is thinking about the rights of the child. At the end of the day, this person is NOT the father of this child, because this person can not make sperm.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

1) The man is recognized as male by the state. 2) The state allows non-reproducing men to be registered as parents.

Yeah and isnt no.1 supposed to be; a woman went through procedures to be recognized as a man. And even then when you compare 1 and 2 unless you dont understand english, they are completely different.I'm sure 2 children, one from either one of these situations would recognize the differences in it all, and would more than likely feel offended if you didnt recognize the differences.

And anyways Im must be totally naive about all this, call me backward if you want, I assure you Im not doctor who. But how do you get a gender change to be a man, like do you chop off your breasts and get a robot controlled attachable dildo or something? Or do you just close up the hole-and isnt that like certain cases of genital mutilation in some cultures? I wish this article would explain what they mean when they say gender change, cause it sure isnt clear to me at all.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Meh.

Personally, I don't particularly think anyone should have a sex change operation. I would even go further to say that I would discriminate against such people in employment, for example, in that I would not hire them -- all else being equal.

I could go into the reasons why, but I won't. Why not?

But that is irrelevant.

My personal feelings about another's identity, be it sex,gender, religious, political, what-have-you, is irrelevant. It is their goddam right to think or do as their conscience dictates -- standard qualifiers applying (consensual adults, etc etc)

I said I would not hire them, all else being equal. But all else is not equal. It is their goddam right to be transgenderd, and that ends it. Their are laws, of course, in my state against discriminating against the transgenderd, but that is not why I don't do it. I don't do it -- in case I haven't made myself clear -- because

IT IS THEIR GODDAM RIGHT TO LIVE THE WAY THEY WANT TO.

What we have here, in the present case, appears to be an incongruence in Japanese law, and societal norms.

I hope this man fights for his rights, and I hope he wins.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I have no problem with their being gay as long as they keep it to themselves

Right. And I'm sure you have no problem with their being straight as long as they keep it to themselves....

Either you do, or you don't.

If you don't, -- that is, you have no problem with a man and woman showing their love and affections for each other as a couple -- then you admit that you wish to treat gays differently. That is another way to say, you discriminate against them for being gay. Ooops.

If you do, -- that is, you have a problem with a man and a woman showing their love and affections for each other as a couple -- then you admit you are a prude, at best, and a puritan regarding sex at worst.

And I will remind you, the societies with the greatest control over our sexuality are the most undemocratic and repressive. Our sexual freedom is as fundamental as our freedom of speech. Though it was not enshrined in the American Bill of Right as the freedom of speach was, it probably should only be curtailed along the same strict conditions.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@shiofuki

I have a couple of gay acquaintances, and accept them as they are. I have no problem with their being gay as long as they keep it to themselves.

You do realize how discriminatory this statement of yours is right? I wonder if your gay friends have a problem with heterosexuals? Oh right so long as they keep it to themselves correct?

You should learn that you are discriminating against your gay friends by making this kind of comment. I have plenty of friends, if they are gay or not is their business not mine, and they are friends either way.

A friend is a friend without the classification or label that you put on them. Next time how about trying to word it a little better.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@kimuzukashiiiii

So discriminate against the man (former woman) and at the same time, discriminate against the child for being born out of wedlock?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The main thing here is Japan is STILL stuck in a world that is 20+ behind the rest of the world in many things. laws.. way they run the government.. etc.. This is just another check mark I can put down as Japan not growing or even contemplating the fact that world is changing... All I say is japan needs to grow up and stop trying NOT to change.

Spot on. Japan is definitely behind and will soon be left behind as the rest of the developed nations in the world progress with the changing times.

It seems to me (is it my own ignorance?) that too often in Japan judges just make a ruling on whatever their own personal opinions are, regardless of the actual laws or precedents in place.

Yup. That's about it. Along with being outdated, many laws are very vague with tons of loopholes. That way the 'justice system' and the authorities can bend them however they see fit.

I can't believe some of the ignorant and bigoted comments here. Get educated people!!

In regards to this article, first of all, he is legally recognized as a man and therefore should be able to be registered as the father of his wife's child. They can't pick and choose which men can be registered as fathers. Second, as another poster pointed out, why even bother with the terms 'mother' and 'father'? Why not just use 'parent'? Third, if this is what the couple wants, why should the government have any say in it? Funny how the family is their business when issues like this are involved but when it comes to child neglect and abuse or domestic violence, they don't want to have anything to do with it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@illsayit:

I wish this article would explain what they mean when they say gender change, cause it sure isn't clear to me at all.

How folksy of you.

There's this marvellous font of wisdom called The Internet, on which you can find out all the information you crave. And if you can't work a computer, you could always try a book.

I have to say that since you haven't managed to do either of these things yet, you must indeed be if not "backward" or "naive", then at least a bit lazy.

Doctors and surgeons have been carrying out this treatment for decades, and having a sex change is a complex process which takes several years, a lot of money, and conviction.

But that's neither here nor there.

This non-reproducing man is not being allowed to register his child. preventing him doing this goes against Japanese law.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think, that the judges judgement was accurate. The reason being, that I think a birth certificate should contain the name of the biological parents, or nothing, if that information is unavailable. It is a legal document, and should be treated as such.

This has nothing to do with the birth certificate. It is about him being registered as the father. Lots of men are registered as fathers even though they are not the biological father.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The problem is that the government is run by crusty old conservatives who are stuck in two extremes: 1. of not wanting to change, and 2. simultaneously wanting nothing to do with Japan's culture, art, an heritage. Like some sort of ultra-static backward modernists.

They want to do everything in their power to keep Japan a "salaryman's country". No equal rights for gays, transgenders, buraku, or foreigners. Simultaneously cutting the budget for anything artistic or cultural.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

dolphingirl - are you sure about that? I looked around online but it was not very clear. I had assumed this problem began when the baby was 2 weeks old, and they went to register its birth at the ward office in order to get the birth certificate. I thought the issue was he wanted to be registered as the biological father of the child.

You can be registered on the koseke, and if your a guy have your new wife/her kids from a previous relationship etc on your koseke, and have them take your name, and even adopt the children. However the birth certificate will never change.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Southsakai

and I hope to be old and dead by then.

You mean you hope your body catches up with your thinking?

Might be better to put yourself in someone elses shoes b4 you die.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I do not see the argument about this.

Two people come together. They want to have a child but though the woman (A-san) in the relationship can conceive and bear a child, the other person (B-san) is unfortunate to have a body that doesn't produce sperm.

The woman becomes pregnant through donor sperm, comes to term and has the baby.

She is the mother and B-san (who is taking a father's role in the relationship) is the father.

Their marriage and the position of B-san in the marriage as husband (because of a sex change) was recognised in a 2004 law.

And this judge refuses to accept it?

He needs to brush up on his laws by the look of it!

Johnson was right when he said that the law is an ass.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

kimuzukashiiiii,

"however no-one is thinking about the rights of the child. At the end of the day, this person is NOT the father of this child, because this person can not make sperm."

I'm adopted. As are my siblings. My biological parents are not listed on my birth certificate -- that information is legally sealed.

My adoptive father and mother raised me in a warm and caring home. And you know what? I'm fine. No emotional scarring. No trauma over being separated from my "real" parents. No rocking myself to sleep at nights, huddled in a weeping, sobbing ball of emotional wreckage because my DNA is different from that of the people who raised me.

So are you really going to sit there and try to tell my the man who raised me -- with whom I did not share something as complex and ultimately trivial as DNA -- is not my father?

You speak of things of which you have scarce knowledge, friend.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Discrimination is still alive and well in Japan. Whether its gender, race, religion, housing or subliminal ones as in marriage and parenting this vile practice demeans and devalues the entire society. It's an ugly word and has to be legislated out of existence. Thus equitable and anti-discrimination laws need to be crafted and enacted. They need legislation that protects the rights of both natural citizens and foreign residents alike. Hence in modern societies discrimination against race is anathema to the human race period.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Maria, you pick. You choose whether you want to call me lazy, stupid, backward, naive. Obviously all you want to do is have a go at someone. Isnt it normal that people are bought up not knowing these things? Or do you educate your children on how to get a gender change? I must admit I'm not inclined to search out the details, and as a reader of news isn't it a given that not all people understand the process and a little bit of explanation to perhaps differentiate between what is meant is a given. Most news articles give a little bit of an explanation about what they are talking about. Isnt it a bit discriminative to suggest that understanding that gender change means.... means, um, what? I get that the legality in certain areas of the government recognizes that the person was once a woman and is now referred to as a man. That doesnt mean gender change has a given definition. Unlike, for example, the terms mother and father, they are very understandable as to what gender they are referring to. The terms may not define exactly what that role does, other than the mother can be assumed to be the mother who birthed the child/ren, and the father can be assumed that he is the parent that seminated (is that the right word, again Maria, you might say I'm lazy for not searching out that word, I dont really care what your opinion of me is) the mother. Whether you use the word parent or not, doesnt mean the words mother and father don't exist. And so therefore, because those words usually have a gender reference, when you say gender change, what exactly does that mean? Genital change? Or just that you wish to be known as a different gender to what you are? Okay that may be off topic, but I cant see how Maria telling me to do a search on gender change topic, or the other little ramble about wearing socks, was on topic either. I dont think that it has to be a requirement that every person knows these things. ARe you suggesting that everybody be taught about gender change for them to be a good citizen? Like someone said and gave an example about, that would require everybody knowing everything about every case study example of any sort of couple that is possible out there, to be a 'good citizen'. That is asking the impossible; for example, most people in the world don't know all the details in say a Japanese/British relationship, or are you suggesting that everybody learn that and all the other mixtures, for them to be agood citizen? And would you then suggest that all international marriages are the same? All marriages between persons of different religions are the same?? I think, that in this news article a little bit of definition of what gender change means is a norm, obviously you think different.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The reason being, that I think a birth certificate should contain the name of the biological parents, or nothing, if that information is unavailable. It is a legal document, and should be treated as such.

This is discrimination clear and simple. Japan needs to get with the times and start looking at ALL parenting rights regardless of gender and sexual orientation. Mom and dad doesn't mean a good upbringing with love. If it did we wouldn't have so many messed up folks killing their kids and people with social issues like Japan has.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@illsayit:

Any news article has to assume some prior knowledge by the reader, otherwise in this article alone there would have to be footnotes or other asides, in order to explain: Japanese family registry; the process of artificial insemination; the responsibilities of family courts; infertility; and the 2004 law.

You choose to be offended when I repeat 2 of the adjectives you yourself used. You choose to be offended because I suggest what you admit - you couldn't be bothered to find out something by yourself. As for suggesting you might be lazy - well, I have no idea how old you are, but I have found self-education to be essential all my teenage and adult life, without depending on my parents to tell me stuff.

If you're going to use the internet for online discussion on media sites, you have a responsibility to inform yourself about any aspects of the topic you are unfamiliar with, before commenting. Otherwise you're going to get disagreed with. Grow up.

The process for having a sex change is, as I said, lengthy and detailed. Off the top of my head, I can tell you it would involve having to live as a person of that sex, taking hormones, breast implant/removal, and surgical construction of genitalia using the material already available and then some. It involves lots of counselling, loads of paperwork, and the emotional challenges of having to deal with family, friends and employers, who may not be very understanding and, indeed, downright hostile and rejecting. It is not a decision anyone would take lightly.

You're welcome.

Ultimately however, that information has nothing to do with this, as I have said. The protaganist is a man. He is a husband, is married to a woman with a baby they chose to parent together, and wishes to be recognised as that child's father.

Finally, unless you are also the poster shiofuki,my socks are nothing you need to concern yourself with. I use a hotwater bottle anyway, they're much more efficient.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I don't think gay/lesbian couples can be considered parents,

Cripes, while I may be taking this out of context as I am not sure I read the entire post correctly, this kind of thinking is from the dark ages.

People, no matter their sexual persuasion, are just that people! Gay and lesbian couples are more than capable of raising a child as anyone else. To think or consider otherwise shows your insensitivity and sadly ignorance as well, of what it takes to raise a child.

While my own children have been raised in a heterosexual environment gay and lesbian couples are just as capable and loving to children as "we" are, and in some respects are possibly more in tune with sexual related issues than I am.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Yubaru

People, no matter their sexual persuasion, are just that people! Gay and lesbian couples are more than capable of raising a child as anyone else. To think or consider otherwise shows your insensitivity and sadly ignorance as well, of what it takes to raise a child.

Exactly! Well said, Sir.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

lucabrasi, it took me a LONG time to accept and understand what I wrote in my previous post.

I was born and raised Catholic but fortunately I grew up and learned to accept people for who and what they are as human beings and not what their sexual preferences are.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ BertieWooster

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I would like to know if you can give some examples of people whose lives were destroyed by a sex change operation.

Did I say people's lives were destroyed? No. You're trying to put words into my mouth. Anyway, the question is whether it it right before God. You know the answer to that if you choose to lok inside.

But if you do want an example, I was watching one of those trashy Jerry Springer shows (think it was his) a couple of years ago, and they had some guys on who had been dating 'girls' only to find out their 'girlfriends' were something else when they were born. I daresay that has had a pretty negative effect on their lives, wouldn't you?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

You do realize how discriminatory this statement of yours is right? I wonder if your gay friends have a problem with heterosexuals? Oh right so long as they keep it to themselves correct?

You should learn that you are discriminating against your gay friends by making this kind of comment. I have plenty of friends, if they are gay or not is their business not mine, and they are friends either way.

A friend is a friend without the classification or label that you put on them. Next time how about trying to word it a little better.

Homosexuality is sexual deviancy. period. It happens. OK, I don't see that people should be persecuted for it or discriminated against in terms of jobs etc. But when it comes to another life, a child, then that child should have the chance to be normal. Yes, I used the word 'normal because heterosexuality IS normal. It is the means by which the human race has traditionally been maintained. Two homosexuals cannot have children naturally so the act isn't natural. A child should have the chance to grow up a nd be normal. If he or she isn't then whatever, but please let us give the child that chance first.

Does the idea/image of two men doing stuff together repluse you? It repulses me because the act isn't normal. Whatever they do in private is up to them, but it doesn't mean I have to go against my instincts just because some lefties are offended by it.

I don't care of my wording offends you, although it isn't designed to per se. I am just saying what I think, as all the others say what they think, and I don't notice any of them trying to be less pointed in their replies to me.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@ Maria , well see you can give a small defenition, I cant see why the writer of this article couldnt do the same. And for the subjects you posed as well, the 2004 law for example. (Don't worry Maria I am 15 years old, I'm completely uneducated about this subject.) And @ MArie, whether parents are good parents, is totally irrelevant to this situation. Heterosexual parents and homosexual parents alike both have the potential for good and bad. I see this article as nothing more than stirring up people's emotions, totally unworthy in it's presentation or in it's content. This is not news the way it is presented. I do not care what the results of this situation turn out to be. In any case, the3 people involved are essentially living as a family. Do they wish to have their personal lives dragged through the media to make a point about justice as living as a family, when they are? I dont know and I am sure they are the ones who can answer whether they care. An interview with one of them, even, would improve this article somewhat. otherwise, who knows, the writer may have an opinion either way, for or against, and is just stirring up trouble. How Japan defines words, and how they treat equality obviously lie in 2 diffferent areas, I cant see that this is backward. Just different to other countries.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

edited to add.....

I have friends with two moms, and others with two dads, a sister who is a lesbian, a nephew who is gay, and guess what, they are the MOST loving open minded ACCEPTING people that I personally know.

I am blessed for knowing them and calling them friends and family. Learning to be open about your own sexuality and not fear it nor feel guilt because of what some book or person says is a step in the right direction.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

All readers back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Unfortunately closed-minded people are closed and are not open to new ideas or any positive modifications in their behavior or view. They are quite stuck with themselves and are unwelcome to change their view point or accept new ideas. I use to think about gay and lesbians people negatively until I talked and listened and became their friends. They are normal human beings. Although we make judgement's in everyday living, being judgmental of another usually means that we are looking down or negatively on another person. This is a sign of insecurity because all people are equal. All studies essentially indicate that same-sex households have healthy children with similar academic achievements, number of friends and over-all well-being. In general there are no evidences for differences in parenting abilities between two mothers vs a mother and a father raising a child. What matters is not the gender or sexual orientation of the parent but one that has responsible, committed parenting with someone to support them in their parenting. Therefore two parents seems to be better than one. As a result dealing with such closed-minded people can be annoying and a headache. So leave them alone to avoid conflict and let them hold their grudges.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

shiofuki,

"Anyway, the question is whether it it right before God."

Actually, no, that's not the question at all. Not even a little bit. That's your queston, perhaps, but it most certainly isn't mine and it most certainly isn't the queston in the mind of the 30-year old person in the article above who has to wrestle with archaic laws in order to express love and support for his child.

You would know that if you chose to look beyond selfish religious interpretation of how others live.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ shiofuki

Anyway, the question is whether it it right before God.

Despite all the tripe you've posted so far, this nearly made me cough out my Korean tea.

"The question" - whose question is it? One thing I didn't consider when pondering my response to the article was whether it is what god wants.

You want to live your life by asking yourself if the choices you make are what your god would want you to do. Don't be so insulting as to insist that others do likewise - the laws of many enlightened democracies try to avoid asking questions of any gods at all (see the working conditions of public school teachers in my own country of Ireland as a sickening exception to this rule).

3 ( +3 / -0 )

shiofuki,

You ask:

Did I say people's lives were destroyed?

I would have answered "Yes," but you didn't provide space for an answer, you answered your own question with:

No.

And, in emphasis you added:

You're trying to put words into my mouth.

To which I reply:

Am I?

Well, let's take a look at what you actually wrote:

Sex changes are are abomination and don't change a person's sex, they just destroy it.

Aren't you contracting yourself, dear laddie?

Anyway, the question is whether it it right before God. You know the answer to that if you choose to lok inside.

I did as you said and looked inside but I didn't find any answer.

People change their bodies all the time.

They change their hairstyle, put on wigs if they have no or too little hair, have liposuction operations to lose weight, have nose jobs, face lifts and all kinds of cosmetic operations.

I see a sex change operation as a kind of extension of this.

Why not?

The body we inhabit is just a vehicle.

Why shouldn't we change it?

I think God is more concerned with what's in the body.

Don't you?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Maybe they have a beautiful baby girl who'll one day grow up to be a big, strong man like her father?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As much as everyone fights on here, I think anyone can recognize injustice against another person, by individuals, organizations, or states. Isn't that what this is? It seems to me it's as simple as that. Tell me if I'm nuts.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ah I've been gone too long I see. Fact is biology doesn't lie. People can lie to themselves (also known as delusion) to try to make their perception as "real" as they think they can. Note that GID is a DISORDER. It is the same disorder as anorexia nervousa which is also a disorder in a persons own self perception. I don't really care about GID and what a person chooses to do to their own body with the exception that they expect others to adhere to their own mental disorder. One person's fantasy is never going to be everyone elses reality. If a person is suffering from a delusion, why are others expected to go along with them? All in the name of being politically correct? Sorry, I like reality because that is what everyone in the world has to deal with.

Fantasy: I'm a woman in a mans body/a man in a woman's body.

Reality: Women and men are complex individuals with distinct and specific physical and hormonal characteristics that make it impossible for anyone to "change" into the opposite sex.

A "man" with a sex change will never have a prostate to worry about, their pelvic structure is and always will be that of a woman, does not naturally produce testosterone/adrogen at correct levels (because of the lack of functioning male testes and the pituitary gland is wired differently), cannot have natural male arousel, nor will ever experience a male ejaculation.

A "woman" with a sex change will never experience mensus, menopause, does not have the female hormones (nor the ova) that are naturally produced during those cycles (even a "barren" woman still undergoes these cycles), is incapable of undergoing the full experience of women that do get pregnant and even then do not have the bone structure for such a thing.

No matter how many people disagree with me, reality is what it is and cannot be changed until as I mentioned earlier there is a way to put a man's brain in a womans body and vice versa. The sex "reassignment therapy" as they so like to call it is a big fat joke and the person suffering from GID will never truly achieve their goal, and should they ever be able to can they cope with the reality of what it really means to FULLY change to the opposite sex?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2224753/Ria-Cooper-Britains-youngest-sex-change-patient-reverse-treatment.html

And that is just ONE example.

Don't get me wrong, people with GID should always be treated with the respect and dignity as should be given to every human being, but that doesn't mean everyone has to go along with their perception of what they feel they should be. Reality is that they were born the sex they were given. Their physiology doesn't lie and no amount of surgery(using our current methods) or hormonal therapy is going to change it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The problem with is case is what is wrong with the Judiciary in Japan, they don't have to be lawyers.

HonestDictator: You have no idea or concept of biology or modern technology. There are cases where some is born to look male or female, more likely female but the DNA will tell you that she is a he. They tend to be the most beautiful women because of their male biology. Won't get into why.

Soon, women won't even need to carry fetuses. There will be functioning artificial ones.

Everyone is created female and some injection of hormone at the right time will make a male.

For those who say that humans should get into this type of technology, the ability to make a male into a female or a female into a male, or remove both parents from the equation of birth,,,, who do you think gave man this ability.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Naturally born hermaphrodites are in a completely different ballpark of their own. Your concept of biology has no grounds in real science and you're running on ideology instead of reality. One thing I like about science is it relies on as many provable facts as can be known not what someone wants it to be.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just to clarify a transsexual is a person that goes out to use surgical procedures and hormone treatment in order to try and get as close to becoming the opposite sex as they can (think Thailand). In GID it is considered to be a psychological disorder that a person thinks that altering their physiology to what they imagine the opposite sex to be like that they feel comfortable with.

A true human hermaphrodite is naturally born with both organs or certain physical characteristics of both sexes but one or the other ( or in some cases both) are not fully developed.

I'm sorry, I went to med school and the structure and function of the human body was one of the things I had to learn. So just because a person wants to "believe" that they're something they aren't, will not change the facts. A person's psychological state is not always the bearing of their phsyiological state.

One final note, Gender reassignment "therapy" is not recommended in over 90% of GID cases because it is usually treated psychologically first to determine just how theraputic it would be for a patient to actually go through with "gender reassignment" because it may end up doing more harm than good because it isn't what they expect it to be.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why isn't this article available any longer? In the archives?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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