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U.S. advises airlines to comply with China air zone demands

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By IAN MADER

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Hope this is true: “They will be ‘escorting’ the intruding planes, but they are not going to shoot them,” Psaki said.

If some trigger-happy gunner does blow a civilian (even military) aircraft out of the sky there will be hell to pay ...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If some trigger-happy gunner does blow a civilian (even military) aircraft out of the sky there will be hell to pay .

Do you actually think the Chinese will even care one way or another?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

If I get escorted I am giving the Chinese the International Peace Sign, and once I am out of "their" ADIZ I will inform them over the radio about what they can do with themselves.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

This is, sadly, the way China will 'win' this thing, if any nation does. It'll begin with this proclamation, and gradually over time there will be more and more compliance in other areas. There won't be a war beyond a war of words and more of the same tit-for-tat we've been seeing. The only way China will revise the new zone is if people go to the table to talk, and both Japan and China stop being so stubborn and decide to work together (ie. joint development of resources). If the bombast and brinkmanship (both sides) continue China will just dig in.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

As I said, the Obama administration is useless, telling US carriers to comply to China's demands??? In other words telling Japan that this is China's territory and for all to abide by China's rules over Japan's Islands, and so what is Japan going to do, stop launching fighter jets when Chinese war planes intrude into the area of Japan's islands?? I really do not get this!

6 ( +16 / -10 )

What does this duplicity by the U.S. State Department mean? In fact the U.S. military has been flying in this ADIZ unconcerned. The U.S. should officially make a statement invalidating the ADIZ announced by China and then advise the airlines to comply to avert risk.

1 ( +5 / -5 )

Japanese government announced that this matter would be addressed to an U.N. body International Civil Aviation Organization which both Japan and China are member of. Of course, we all know how China is when it comes to dispute settlements via this type of organization.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

China is not an evil country. Yes, they are under one-party rule (though there is as much vying for agendas as the democrats and republicans in the US) and ideally, the politicians should be elected by the people. But their leadership has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty since the 70s and now have the second highest GDP in the world. Evil are regimes like North Korea, Hitler, Pol Pot, the WW2 Japanese, dictatorships in the middle east whose leadership cling to power while failing to do anything to benefit the lives of their people. Moreover, any country has been "evil" if one takes a snapshot of their history. While far from ideal, in practice in China communism as a form of government is being used effectively and for the good of its people. No matter the form of government, what matters is the well-being and happiness of the average man.

-15 ( +9 / -23 )

Best thing is to BOYCOTT ALL Chinese made items. Give up all the mainly useless things made by china's huge slave-labor industries. 90% of what most people own is superfluous anyway, get back to essentials and FORCE more accountable, environmentally friendly, and locally made items to re-appear once again, re-invigorating neglected, abandoned small businesses and industries. Buy more second hand, refurbished thing keeping the money locally. REDUCE-REUSE-RECYCLE more and more....

9 ( +19 / -10 )

Watch now as the PRC soon sets up additional ADIZ nets across the Philippines eastern seaboard over the Spratelys region. Then all eastbound civil airtraffic out of Manila will ostensibly require advance notification to Chinese airdefense command. This intention has already been clearly telegraphed by a PRC Defense Ministry spokesperson: "Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun confirmed those concerns on Saturday by saying China would establish additional air defense identification zones "at an appropriate time." China sends planes into air zone after Japan, S Korea defy rules By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN National Nov. 29, 2013 - 01:05PM JST ( 94 ) JAPANTIMES

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Let them look. In fact, go wave and smile to them when they do.

This may end up being another age of appeasement. Smith I hope you're right, but China's nationalists do make the annoying clowns in the sound vans look really trivial.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

AlexNoaburg, you are trying to justify China's aggression towards other. expansionism against others , as for bettering the lives of its people at the expense of everyone else and disrupting the peace in the region. I say to you, you are a blind fool and must have a thought pattern way off the norm.! As for one trying to advance oneself at the expense of another is totally unacceptable as for any nation that regards themselves as a productive member of the international community that respects the rights of others, which China seems have never been able to do when it comes to the respect of rights for its own people, so of course we should not expect China to respect the lives of others outside their tight grip within its own borders.. No surprise there of course and why everyone can not trust China today since they lack such capabilities proven by China's actions. As for China lifting people from poverty, this is all well and good but you do not use your new found power to intimidate everyone else and that is what China is doing, besides if all these countries China is trying to force into abiding to all that China deems as their right with disregard to everyone else in the region, if these nations pulled their investments back out of China, which was outside investments in to China which gave these leaders of China the ability to pull so many out of poverty, CHina again would collapse back into the impoverished nation they were in before this trend began. China in recent years has shown a trend that is in total disregard in terms of being an active player in the international community, especially when these actions are against those that are well established world players and respected by the rest of the developed world, something China has yet to become as to no one has any trust in China today and always wondering what type of BS they are going to pull next, and that is with everyone continually trying to appease them, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt while appeasing them believing they will eventually come around and play as a member with the rest of the developed world and abiding to international norms that China seems hll bent on refusing to do. Enough is enough ! it is all these other countries that invested into China that gave these leaders the ability to lift the people of China out of poverty and if these same investments came to a halt, so would China's ability to keep its people out of poverty. Your words are full of it! What China is doing is evil and out of hand. every time we turn around CHina is altering the status quo and trying to push something else upon others. You may have some sort of obscured definition of EVIL, but what China is doing is EVIL! Seems your view leaves out about 99% of what China's actions are.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

The State Department said this? Dam Kerry, I thought you were on our side...

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Well, that's that. Looks like China owns this space until they release it or it gets taken back.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Do you actually think the Chinese will even care one way or another?

Yes. They will definitely care.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The Chinese are creating a framework for greater cooperation between Japan, South Korea and East Asia. Their idiotically aggressive moves in the Pacific play right into the hands of these countries' Military Industrial Complexes...Japan will alter its pacifist Constitution in favor of self-defense, develop a Marine Corps capable of repelling any territorial incursions, and cement the US's hegemony in the Pacific with the support-nay enthusiastic encouragement!-of the rest of Asia! Just wait and see...

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This time the action of US is confusing ! After sending unmistakable message to China with 2 B-52 the country is now telling its airlines to comply with chinese new demands???? If the US do this , all other airlines eventually will have no choice but will do the same... Next step will be its backyard in the South.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

it is for japn to do its own part (not the US or neighboring countries), whether u act soon or later, the zone will have real effects, whether the senkaku is belong to china or not, it will change views in the long term, as i think it also have the potential to go into school textbooks, etc..once u nationalized the islands, i think it should hav already been followed up with maybe something constructed to secure the long-term view of people about the islands,, i think that was done by china first..it is very legal for japan to use the island for something, what hold back the govn`t to consider using the islands..or maybe it better they did not nationalize it in the first place.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Tyvtgo1US - I am with You 100% of the way.

Everyone, what he/she is saying is Right On The Mark!

Very well said :)

BTW: Communist China is Evil.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

USAF flying B52 with unidentified transponders over the Pacific, this time in the Chinese claimed air space. I thought that this issue was sea and land dispute between China and Japan. Oh, wait a minute. That's right! It is the Team America World Police in action again!!!

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

A prudent tactical move by the US Govt. to cool down simmering moods and rhetorics by Beijing and Tokyo : advise commercial carriers to inform Chinese authorities.

Without this announcement, Beijing will be forced to up the ante if only to satisfy its own ultra-nationalists, and chaos of immeasurable proportions could ensue within the leadership placing the status quo in the world of the unknowns and, which if it happens, will prove detrimental to all parties concerned including the US.

Beijing, by most recent reckoning, is the single biggest sovereign buyer and holder of US Treasury bonds for years now, and if there is a change within the power structure where ultra-nationalists and their military cohorts reign supreme, they may put the world economy hostage by demanding unilaterally that US redeem them back pronto.

The announcement should also satisfy, if only grudgingly, the hawkish attitudes within the the US military and political establishment since the military flights are still given the free reign to conduct its business in the area.

Strategically, the only real solution to peace is by diplomatic efforts, Beijing and Tokyo resume its talks immediately to be assisted by the free world, hopefully Tokyo concedes that the islands in question Senkakus/Diaoyu is considered disputed and allow UN, to render its voice to the issue.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Chinese authorities have been extra busy lately trying to control things, especially the internet and they don't like people spreading rumours either lol

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11165178

0 ( +1 / -1 )

so as expected the United States blinked under Obama. So China wins. China now is open to monitor all travel out of Okinawa and will place their carrier at the end of the ADIZ to maintain air ops once it is operational.

china now owns the sea and the US will be vacating the area during Obama's administration- oh sure - they will still have bases- but they will not be putting a ship into the ADIZ - so that is a whole lot of sea it needs to steam around.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Japan needs a kind of force field, then it can still be pacifist. How to be pacifist if around Japan there is a country aspiring revenge.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

US is doing this for obvious diplomatic reasons. They have lots of business with the chinese (and also with the japanese). The first message was to calm down the japanese side. Now, they are trying to make China feel confortable too. This is called diplomacy. It is the only way to solve troubles without war. US is doing the right thing.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

US airliners heading to the SE Asia are already replacing most pilots to ex military pilots, just in case.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Alex Noaburg

China is not an evil country. [Their] leadership has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty since the 70s and now have the second highest GDP in the world.

No matter the form of government, what matters is the well-being and happiness of the average man.

I'm afraid this is hopelessly naive, if not duplicitous. You conveniently neglect to mention forced abortions, the abuse of human rights, the way they used gangsters to attack and force residents to give up their land in preparation for the Beijing Olympics, invading India's territory, invading Sansha....

And even your GDP justification is not credible. A better measurement for what you argue is GDP PER CAPITA, which places China well down the rankings:

87th (according to the IMF) 90th (World Bank) 92nd (CIA World Factbook) 93rd (UN)

This shows that a tiny, tiny minority of China's population has become rich but the wealth of "the average man" is a distant dream.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

2 ( +4 / -2 )

China is not going to shoot down any planes other then the ones from Japan. The US and China will probably quietly negotiate a settlement, and Japan who is mistaking to think that there is some united front, will be left out to hold the bag on their own. China's target is Japan, they have no interest starting a conflict with others. I have said this all along, and even some Japanese media is starting to agree with me.

<http://bylines.news.yahoo.co.jp/amakinaoto/20131130-00030227/

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

The article of NYT is rather tendentious.

What U.S Department of State actually told at the press briefing is here.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/11/218139.htm

U.S. Department of State replied to the inquiry of Japanese government that they had not advised U.S. carriers to submit flight plans to China. It was so reported by NHK.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The US does the smart thing and advises unarmed commercial carriers to play it safe and announce flight plans.

Meanwhile, back in Japan, commercial carriers continue to take unnecessary chances with passengers' lives.

By all means, keep sending military craft into the zone to push back...they can at least defend themselves. But this is not a time to play the brinkmanship game with innocent civilian lives. ANA and JAL should do the smart thing and announce their flight plans.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

US airliners heading to the SE Asia are already replacing most pilots to ex military pilots, just in case.

My son USAFA cadet and a fighter pilot has told me about this yesterday. My neighborhood is filled with ex military-now-commercial pilots.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@virgp98 stated "U.S. Department of State replied to the inquiry of Japanese government that they had not advised U.S. carriers to submit flight plans to China. It was so reported by NHK. ........................................................................................................................................................................... The article stated that

The United States on Saturday advised U.S. carriers to comply with China’s demand that it be told of any flights passing through its new maritime air defense zone over the East China Sea, an area where Beijing said it launched two fighter planes to investigate a dozen American and Japanese reconnaissance and military flights

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The US and China will probably quietly negotiate a settlement, and Japan who is mistaking to think that there is some united front, will be left out to hold the bag on their own

Chucky, you're entitled to your speculation of course, but there was an interesting post from an American reader on one of these threads who, as a neutral with no connections to China or Japan, said (I paraphrase) the USA is not going to let a Communist dictatorship attack a democratic country, not least one which is a very close ally.

Personally, I think this American reader is calling it right, and the USA's words AND actions are currently backing this up.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Hey China - blow me!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

hatsoff, did you read the Japanese article I posted?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Hey China, come and get me!!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

....and the Obama admin is caving again. Last week to the mullah in Iran, this week to the goons in Peking. What is next?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Protecting safety of air travelers is the most important thing.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

This is typical Japanese. They can establish a AIDZ right up to the Chinese airspace but if the Chinese does it, the Japanese government declares it was established unilaterally. When the Japanese established their own AIDZ, did they consult with the Chinese or get the Chinese approval? Of course not. Now the Japanese government is declaring that the sky is falling. Give me a break.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

WilliBNov. 30, 2013 - 10:36PM JST

....and the Obama admin is caving again. Last week to the mullah in Iran, this week to the goons in Peking. What is next?

You identified yourself "Obama is weak" crowds. You wait and see what he will do. Your geopolitical analysis is too shallow and sometime you make me wonder if you truly understand the issues. There have been a lot going on under the surface.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

China is not as stupid as we think, they are stupid but they understand the POWER the USA has and they know not to mess DIRECTLY with the USA so they will us NORTH KOREA again, the slave dog of Beijing!!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Can we at least all agree on one thing ?

When China decides (again unilaterally) to set up an ADIZ in the South (hate to say this but) 'China' Sea, the deniers on this site will agree that we were right and China is a big threat to peace and stablility in Asia ? ? ?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Sounds like the first step in accepting the disputed islands as Chinese.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I hate to say that “I told you so” about the certain outcomes that I’ve predicted few days ago when many exuberant nationalists thought that the US would support Japan to ask China to withdraw its ADIZ.

After initial hype wore off, the hawkish Abe’s admin might start to realize that its current strategy on disputed islets is at risk since its nemesis, the ruthless and resilient Chinese regime, is going to not only put its firm footing in its ADIZ and but also to play its advantage for a long haul.

Granted, the Chinese regime fumbled on ADIZ initially, but the US needs Chins on board to fry its big fish, therefore, a disgruntled and hand-it-on China would not suit Obama’s Admin’s best interests.

Again, friendly reminder: If any person thinks that the US will risk a large scale war over those remote inhabited islets with China in east China sea, one is either naïve or out of one’s mind. :)

Here is a thing: since Japanese Government nationalized the disputed island in 2012, the results are: the Chinese coastguard ships go there as they wish on regular basis, in addition, the Chinese military jets now fly over there as they wish. What dose Japan get ?

So it’ might be the time for Abe’s admin to think about siting down peacefully to work out a political solution with China with American’s help.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The result of US advice to airlines will be way less US tourists to China and more US tourists spending $$$$$ in Japan.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So, Japan should not count on US as some posters here have advised. Japan should revise war renouncing constitution.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

All superpower countries are responsible of this mess. Please guys, take a team building weeks, forget about the stupid protocols, fight, cry, shout, discuss or whatever … AND come to a consensus for the welfare of the humanity not for your own ego!

World citizens are fed up with these nationalistic speeches!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The US has not advised American carriers to comply with the rules set by China for its newly established ADIZ. It just recommends them to operate according to Notices to Airmen issued by foreign countries. This means that US carriers whose airliners cross the disputed area may submit flight plans to China to avoid any possible incident. They may also ignore China's requirements.

Source: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/11/218139.htm

2 ( +4 / -2 )

tinawatanabe: "So, Japan should not count on US as some posters here have advised. Japan should revise war renouncing constitution."

That would result in one thing and one thing only: the death of Japan. I don't want that, and I'm guessing you don't either. All the Japanese military can do is make a mask and ask the US military to wear it. But anyway, there won't be any war... we're already seeing the US and Japan back down and bow to China's demands. It's time for talk before China takes any kind of advantage that Japan and the US can once again fail to rise against. Revising the constitution would do nothing short of further emboldening China.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

the airlines should just tell the chinese government to check the publicly available airline schedules and routes and be done with it.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

When all those biased, exaggerated, misleading and hyped report/news died down from the west/japan, clam reasoning comes through.

China's ADIZ, just like other countries ADIZ, is here to stay.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

This is not China, nor US, nor Japan, nor … people from whatever countries. Just a bunch of powerful belligerent muppets!

Who is benefiting from these gimmicks? That's the only question that need an answer. All the rest is blablabla!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ahbinh: "This time the action of US is confusing ! After sending unmistakable message to China with 2 B-52 the country >is now telling its airlines to comply with chinese new demands???? If the US do this , all other airlines eventually will >have no choice but will do the same... Next step will be its backyard in the South."

It is confusing to you because you, like many others here, doesn't fully understand the purpose and functionality of ADIZs. If you do then these so-called B-52 and Japanese fighter challenging China's ADIZ doesn't mean much at all.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

You ask all civilian aircraft to comply with China's demand, but do US war planes know whether all these civilian planes have properly complied? They don't, so to be on the safe side they need to escort them till they safely landed on China's land. To that China government will issue bulletin saying: "Our heroic, patriotic fighter pilots detected and strictly monitored 43 intruding military vehicles- - -." When this goes on and on, Chinese people probably will get very angry with their rulers.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

China is declaring war to neighbouring countries, they have to wake up!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

iWorld PRC just claimed an enormous amount of airspace. The US ADIZ is only for aircraft flying to the USA. PRC wants total control and what they did is a hostile act. If they get away with this what will they do next?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

All it takes is for Japan and Korea to declare to the UN that China's ADIZ is infringing on their sovereign airspace, make sure they start proper ADIZ patrols of their own to enforce their establishment on the areas that China so greedily wants to suck up. Trust me the US isn't backing down its just asking that civilian flights comply to avoid issues.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

YuriOtani: "iWorld PRC just claimed an enormous amount of airspace. "

Apparently, you don't know what an AZID is, YuriOtani.

PRC can't claim airspace with its AZID. The airspace contained within AZID doesn't belong to China.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Don't fret everyone, the Air Traffic Controllers responsible for ANSWERING and CALLING all these flights transiting the air space will all go and SHOOT the people that started making them all DO this USELESS extra waste of time.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Unfortunately the US continues to show it is only interested in navel gazing and not actually supportive of their allies when they need it most. It's not surprising to me, just disappointing. Acknowledging this ridiculous claim of China's in any way is a large mistake, just like when Obama went to the middle east to apologize. The US doesn't seem to understand or care that the rest of the world doesn't prescribe to their values or sense of justice. There is no need for the US to ask civilian aircraft to comply as there is nothing to comply with.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

iworld, so now the US can declare an ADIZ covering hainan island and hongkong and taiwan etc... but because those airspaces do not belong to America , it is OK with you...with your way of understanding ADIZ ?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Do you people even think that china even care? its a 1.3billion people country, people do what they want and since they are that many they dont even care. Even if they shoot down a civilian plane they wont give a flying fork about it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

iworld the ADIZ goes right up to the Ryukyu islands. Their EEZ goes up to 12 miles of Kume Island. They are claiming the regulation of who and what flies in their new ADIZ. They can fly their military aircraft to very close to Japan, Republic of China and Republic of Korea. It would make defense much harder. This is only the beginning. This is a game changer and indeed a hostile act.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Overchan, I don't understand your logic... Is there some sort of a correlation between population number and empathy levels within that population?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

ochan expressing a wrong opinion gets you prison or death in the Peoples Republic. So they let Extreme Nationalist feelings come out. However that is a dangerous game. What happens when the people of PRC do not get the promised results or lose a political or military battle? The answer is revolution from what appears to be loyal nationals.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Lulling of tensions or respite often comes by way of meeting halfway instead of standing firm along with Mr. Biden who seems to have to ingratiate himself with Beijing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The white father of Japan has advised its commercial airlines to respect China's air space. The short puny Japanese unwed sun still insistent of ignoring China's rule at their own risk. Maybe this time Japan will receive the retribution it so richly deserve for the murders of millions of Chinese, Koreans, and Southeast Asians. Tokyo this time?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

YuriOtani: "ochan expressing a wrong opinion gets you prison or death in the Peoples Republic."

How's that different from Japan with the new secrecy laws coming into effect? Abe and Co. are pushing Japan to be more and more LIKE China every day, while they claim to be doing so to 'fight' against China. Changing the constitution so that they can push forward their military and boost 'defense'? Same as China, save for the constitution part. Fly in commercial airplanes in answer to China flying in what Japan considers its space?

The countries are two peas in a pod, in terms of how the governments are acting.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Smith they are very different. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech but security matters. I this is allow to continue the PRC will fly their military aircraft right off the coast of Japan and it will be "legal". We are so close to war now. One mistake is all it takes. One zealot and we will be in hot war.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

YuriOtani: "Smith they are very different. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech but security matters."

China says the same thing. Once again, two peas in a pod.

"We are so close to war now. One mistake is all it takes. One zealot and we will be in hot war."

I don't think it will go that far, though I share your concern in how much one idiot on EITHER side could do. It's interesting, though, that you haven't said much in terms of how Americans need to get out of Japan and the US military is nothing but trouble, etc. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the US military and their necessity in Japan for collective defense.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

To smithinjapan: I sometimes say "prepare for war" kind of things because it seems that's the only way to prevent a war, not because I want a war of course.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

tinawatanabe: "To smithinjapan: I sometimes say "prepare for war" kind of things because it seems that's the only way to prevent a war, not because I want a war of course."

I pray no one does, but suspect some do.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This is a no-brainer. The airlines have scheduled routes and scheduled times they are on those routes, so they can submit their projected flight paths for as far ahead as they have scheduled then be done with it. Other countries aren't waving their right to fly in those areas by encouraging their commercial airlines to comply with China's request. Good luck trying to get a country to submit flight plans for military exercises, though. Not going to happen.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

All nations should just remove their ADIZs instead of just criticizing China for having theirs. ADIZ is not air zone!!!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I declare my neighborhood the Land of WhoopdyWhoop. And I as the supreme leader pledge to shoot rubber bands at any aircraft flying overhead unless they call me.

Admittedly an extreme example, but at what point do you draw the line?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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