More headaches with F-35; Japan delays announcement

787 part deux.

It's a boondoggle.

No matter though, billions to be made in open-ended contracts, parts and service.

Meanwhile people in Tohoku are freezing in scanty temporary shelters.

Told ya so.

The problems with this clunker have been widely reported -- this was purely political decision, relenting to sales pressure from the White House.

Humans and war. Will it ever end?

The hook has failed to work properly in test landings on carriers.

Just a minor glitch. The Eurofighter is looking better and better all the time.

Eurofighter does not have a chance for political reasons.

At $6 Billion a pop, you better be going to war and soon. As a matter of fact, that's invasion money. You would want to get at least 2 wars out of it or more.

If they really buy these planes then it's a sure fire bet that we'll see a huge war within the next 2 decades.

I'm talking about a war that comes to you.

Didn't the world watch Independence Day? If we can take down huge spaceships with F18 Hornets and missiles then we can definitely mass produce them.

So foolish to pick up a gun. Imperial Japan is coming back.

Get Sony to fix the helmet displays, and Tepco to fix the fuel dumping problem.

er...

McCain"The JSF has been both a scandal and tragedy" ........Wasnt that was a good news for both China and Russia? Wait and see, the F-35 program will be the one on the 1 trillion arms' kill list!

The participant countries will leave the JSF program one by one due to the ridiculous high cost and inflations!

thx for listening J-Govt, BUT I still want my taxes lowered since we know your are printing tons of YEN!

I know Japan and the US have certain contracts, but Japan should pull out of buying these suckers... I see nothing but further delays and bigger problems on the horizon, with the price tag getting higher and higher.

I don't think the J-Government have access to Wikipedia.

wow, looks like Lockhead may need to go back to the drawing board on these.

If they are handing out latest-edition drones gratis to Iran, surely they could have sold the F22 to Japan.

This is the 2nd fighter of it's kind. New technology always has problems.

Al Stewart:

" wow, looks like Lockhead may need to go back to the drawing board on these. "

I think this is typically what happens when you try to design one product that is to replace many different products. There have been many engineering disasters like this. They want this baby to be good at everything, and in the end it will be good at at nothing, except at reaching a record price tag.

Lockheed Martin doing what they do best ,bleeding the american taxpayer. Lockheed Martin are probably more powerful than the american government.

Now's your chance to kick it Japan.

"The price of each plane is roughly at $113 million"

Cheap, compared to the 787 Dreamliner, which costs around $200 million, and can't even fire death-causing missiles!

@Serrano,

What is the commercial passenger capacity of an F-35 compared to the 787 Dreamliner? How does the F-35 recoup or defray the investment cost? Theorhetical value as a deterrent?

Price tags are ALWAYS going to "get high and higher" unless we're in a recession. That's why I take these "most expensive in history" stories with a grain of salt. Case in point: these F-35's are about $113 million each, yet the U.S. Navy's Seawolf submarine program 20 years ago clocked-in at a whopping $2.3 BILLION (with a "B") per sub when there were 12 planned. After 3 were built Congress said that they cost too much and halted funding, so the per-unit cost is actually HIGHER than $2.3 billion. (Builders typically incorporate the cost of R&D into the expected life of the contract. There's usually a clause in the contract to recoup the remaining R&D costs if the contract is terminated early.) Even without increases due to delays, those same $2.3 billion subs would cost $4.0 billion each in 2010 dollars simply because of inflation.

Even if we take inflation into account, however, I guess this really IS the most expensive aircraft contract in history but if we wanted "cheap", we'd still be buying F-16 Falcons.

ToraTora - The Dreamliner can hold loads more passengers than an F-35! But unfortunately the Dreamliner can't deter the Chinese or the Russians or others from launching military attacks like the F-35.

Serrano - The Dreamliner can hold loads more passengers than an F-35! But unfortunately the Dreamliner can't deter the Chinese or the Russians or others from launching military attacks like the F-35.

if the chinese or russians ever launch an all out military attack, i doubt the f-35 can do anything significant. not in the age of nuclear weaponry.

Fadamor:

" Even if we take inflation into account, however, I guess this really IS the most expensive aircraft contract in history but if we wanted "cheap", we'd still be buying F-16 Falcons. "

They could have bought the other US plane under consideration, which costs a fraction of this (still rising) price tag, is flying and proven now, and is available now.

But of course, the White House is pushing for more orders for this expensive bondoogle, which keeps being "developed". Hillary has been all over the globe, arm-twisting "partners" to buy this thing, even if they are not happy about it.

Of course, what J-Gov is forgetting, is that if they delay the decision then pilots might die in aging planes. The F-35 will not be available for some years (Inital Operating Capability has kept being pushed back), so at least give your pilots something that they can fly safely - Typhoon or Hornet.

maglev101Dec. 15, 2011 - 11:46PM JST

if the chinese or russians ever launch an all out military attack, i doubt the f-35 can do anything significant. not in the age of nuclear weaponry.

If the nukes fly then they fly both ways - both China and Russia appreciate this fact: that's why conventional military is still of use in this day and age - pushing the boundaries just short of the nuke response.

Looking for a fighter to come online in 2016 justifies a stop gap measure anyway. The F18 would be the ideal choice as an interim replacement for the aging Phantoms.

OssanAmerica:

Yes, obviously. But the J-government caved in to the hard sell.

Now we don´t even know what the final invoice to the J-taxpayers will be...

This is all about China. I doubt they'll actually purchase any of these planes.

They need to replace the F-4s because they're way past their designed service life. Planes will be purchased, just maybe not F-35s.

The biggest project ever funded in Pentagon history turns out to be the most tragedy scandal is a product known as F-35, the mainstay of western airpower! This is the product of 'american coporation' of military industry complex! Thanks to Mr Bush 's eight years administration of his direct or indirect role over this project sold out their state security! I really really hope that plane flew into service, good preys for J-20 shooting it like flying ducks!

When the hypothetical J-Gov politician was asked about problems with the F-35 program, he replied "What problems?"

just-a-guy:

" Thanks to Mr Bush 's eight years administration of his direct or indirect role over this project sold out their state security! "

Doesn´t it get boring to blame GWB for everything under the sun that is wrong?

In the event, I doubt that any company would have been able to produce a product that meets all the contradicting requirements of the F35. It was supposed to do everything that different types of planes can, and be cheaper to boot. Good luck with that.

Japan would do better to purchase the most up-to-date version of the dependable F-18.

The F-35 suffers from "feature-creep". The three different versions have three completely different roles (standard take-off and landing; short take-off and landing; and carrier-based) and they're trying to configure the different roles into one airframe. That's a tough assignment for ANYBODY to pull off.

Regardless, here's a laundry list of things that need to be fixed:

In November 2011, a Pentagon study team found the following 13 major areas of concern remained to be addressed in the F-35:

The Helmet mounted display system does not work properly.

The fuel dump subsystem poses a fire hazard.

The Integrated Power Package is unreliable and difficult to service.

The F-35C's arresting hook does not work.

There is a classified issue, which has been speculated to be about stealth or lack thereof.

The wing buffet is worse than previously reported.

The airframe is unlikely to last through the required lifespan.

The flight test program has yet to explore the most challenging areas.

The software development is behind schedule.

The aircraft is in danger of going overweight or, for the F-35B, too nose-heavy for VTOL operations.

There are multiple thermal management problems. The air conditioner fails to keep the pilot and controls cool enough, the roll posts on the F-35B overheat, and using the afterburner damages the aircraft.

The automated logistics system does not work properly.

And the lightning protection on the F-35 Lightning II is uncertified, with areas of concern.

Japanese government let's wait for the F-35H to roll out.