University OKs plan for Japan's 1st COVID-19 vaccine clinical test

Well a vaccine would certainly not be found if experts like you two aren't doing their job and keep that loser attitude

There's NO vaccine possible on a virus that mutate constantly; as it was not possible for SARS and MERS ; this is murderous to use healthy people and others as guinea pigs . The world has lost any integrity and humanity. Money is the GOD.

Completely false, there are lots of vaccines against RNA viruses that mutate constantly, even inside a single patient, like Yellow Fever or Japanese Encephalitis. Your mistake comes from thinking that every mutation changes the antigens making the antibodies produced ineffective against the mutant, that is not true. SARS and MERS have many vaccine candidates already produced that are effective and safe, the reason they are not on the market because it makes no economic sense to invest in the clinical trials for a vaccine against a disease that has no cases anymore.

Murderous is to spread disinformation based on deep ignorance of the whole thing.

You’e right, there’s no vaccine that can keep up with the mutations, but there’s a mountain of cash to be made from peddling it. Not to mention the repeat business.

A thousand times more money is made by each day a patient is in the ICU, vaccines make no sense if money were the only thing being considered.

For an ongoing epidemic every vaccine being developed is good news, because there is nothing 100% sure in medical research, so if a vaccine fails then having other 3, or 20 being trialed means not going back to developing one from zero. And if several are successful then the public will have the luxury of choosing the best one, either because it gives longer protection, or have less side-effects or even just a lower price.

But for Japan this vaccine trial has another very important meaning, and that is because the kind of vaccine (DNA) that was approved for the trials was, until now, always discarded as "too risky" by the government; even when in the rest of the world it is a very common thing. There are literally hundreds of articles from Japanese hospitals, universities and research institutes about DNA vaccines against lots of infectious diseases, cancer or allergies, but all the studies stop cold at animal experiments, even if they show to be better (more effective and safer) than the usual vaccines the simple fact they work by introducing DNA into cells means they don't get approval to be tried on humans because the government always chose to avoid any kind of responsibility for any possible problem, even if this means people will keep suffering and dying from something that can be prevented.

If this trial demonstrates the vaccine is safe, even if not effective, that makes it more likely other health tools based on similar concepts could begin to be tried in the near future, with a little luck even gene therapy.

i@n

All the specialists KNOW that a vaccine isn't possible to be made on a ever mutating virus. Get done some home work - plenty available on Medical Online Publications. this is not me who is stating such, but specialists around the world ( those who still have some integrity left).

This is not being a looser, is being informed. The cold IS a coronavirus= no vaccine. It is being alleged that there are over 60 coronaviruses recorded.

The flu strain is "guessed " any year form an endless list of strains= flu shot has a chance of protection (IF) , 5% to 10%. Is why many who got the flu vaccine still get the flu.

They are working for years on a vaccine for SARS , MERS, etc ... NO Success.

And you think that they will have a vaccine for a new Wuhan ( laboratory made/manipulated) virus ; that the Chinese even didn't disclosed fully the information's on it, over night?

Then one is being blatantly delusional, naive OR have personal interest to protect the Mafia Pharmaceutical System who see humans as cattle to make money on it.

If that's the case, why do vaccines usually take years of clinical trials and approvals to get to market? 

Because the low hanging fruit is already taken. All the diseases with easily produced vaccines were already taken. So the ones that remained where those in which the straightforward approach was not enough. Producing the virus, killing it and inoculating the remaining proteins to get immunity was not good enough or had some unexpected troubles, etc. So recombinant proteins had to be used, or epitome mapping, or delivery of nucleic acids instead of proteins, or live virus attenuation, etc. etc. That is what takes years and years to be refined and optimized. 

There is nothing that say that COVID-19 has to have any of these problems, the simple and easy process can be tried first and if it works then that is it. There would be no need to over complicate it.

I'm not doubting that they can take a short time to produce - it's the efficacy and safety that concerns me -

And that is fine, that is what concerns everybody involved in making them also. But if seeing whether a politician receives something in a needle (you would have to trust him its the vaccine) do something to calm that concern I would suggest the alternative to investigate how clinical trials are done.

That is a much more detailed and documented process where dozens or even hundreds of professionals are involved trying to find out much more subtle things that would indicate problems. By the time the final steps of a clinical trial are done even the professionals that dedicate their lives to prevent diseases are convinced enough of the safety and efficacy to put their own lives and careers on the line for it 

plus the media and political push behind it. Doesn't that latter part at least prompt you to question what's going on, even if you accept the safety of whatever vaccines are released?

No, because the media and political push do not produce scientific data, it takes a little effort but anybody can research all the data of human trials and no amount of push from any politician or news network can do anything to change what is being continuously registered. Again, a huge amount of health care professionals are involved in every vaccine being developed, is is extremely hard to believe that everybody without exception would agree to hide a bad product, even if it goes against what they choose to do for a living, even if that would negatively affect their own family and friends, even if it is obvious that it would be quickly found out once the vaccine is on the market. 

Is relieving to find more people who are willing to use their critical thinking, to study various sources and to come to their own conclusions.

Its unfortunate then that you could not do the same, choosing to believe things that can easily be demonstrated as false and never ever even acknowledging this.

Thank you for your kind words, unfortunately there's no recovery possible after a vaccine induced disability; Once injected there's no turning back. The immune system is compromised forever.

Also something that cannot be proved at all. At least not in a higher degree than natural exposure to thousands of antigens in a single day. That also "compromise" the immune system forever, just in a much higher degree than all the vaccines a human receive in all his life.

So, anyone who think that a V is the solution, think well before letting yourself deceived and scared into taking it.

Or anyone can do the smart thing and see the primare information first, instead of letting himself be scared and deprived from a perfectly safe and effective measure by people that cannot prove anything they say, and that are demonstrably mistaken even on very simple things.

( in addition : V. are NEVER tested on people with preexisting conditions, ONLY on "healthy people" = think about it as long as you need).

If you knew more about clinical trials you would know testing on people with preexisting conditions is one of the steps that are specifically included.

That's what this whole thing is about. Luckily for big pharma, there is an unlimited number of easily duped people for them to milk.

If milking were the purpose its much more profitable, simple and easy to NOT vaccinate anybody. "Big Pharma" makes much more money for each person that gets sick than whole groups of vaccinations, specially when vaccines can be developed even by local governments in SE asia.

I mean, if COVID-19 were really as bad as the media made it out to be, 6 months later it is far from living up to that hype. A little worse, statistically, than influenza (mortality rates are being over-reported though)

Wow, so half a million dead people is nothing to you? even with extremely heavy and costly measures around the world? And you prefer to believe that all is just "overreporting" even without proof?

Search then what is the lethality of influenza THIS year, so you can actually compare what happens when a much milder disease is also interrupted by the same measures.

Corona viruses are nothing new. Just this time, big pharma got the leverage they couldn't get with SARS/MERS. It was like taking candy from children for them...

Scientific data proves you wrong, and every professional society in the world shares this conclusion. Do you honestly prefer to believe that every doctor, nurse, etc in the world is willing to sacrifice their children just to get you?

The issue is the media, who in general understand little of anything, and governments who are as bad or worse, and both are egging on the Big Pharma companies while promising salvation to we the suckers in the form of a vaccine, very soon. And Pharma companies are in business to make money. Don't get me wrong, I'm a solid free-marketeer but dead set against crony capitalism/corporate socialism where governments get to pick winners.

The easy way out of this is to check the primary data, the media and the governments can't produce scientific studies, even if they want to promote only some of them. If you don't want to invest the necessary time and effort to check the data (maybe not so easy way after all...) you can leave that to proven professionals that do that for a living.

And again, not developing any vaccine is the most profitable thing pharma companies can do right now, its a much better business, just sell the disinfectants, protection equipment, the huge amount of things anybody hospitalized or in ICUs can be charged, they already have that business secure. Making a vaccine is a risk, because everybody can try and develop one, so the only way to minimize the risk is making a good one. It will mean losing money from the sick people (and those spending money not to get infected) but not to what would be lost by making a bad vaccine.

I've been around long enough to know that there some genuinely devious people on our planet, and suspect this concerted push for a cure is multi-dimensional.

The problem is that to put a bad product into the market, full of risks and disadvantages even when compared to doing nothing, is not necessary to have some bad apples, it would take most of the people working on health care to be on the conspiracy, and share the risks.

Just listen to the drumbeat of "new normal" and "safe" and "vaccine" regularly percolating through the media on a daily basis. It's relentless, especially on the NHK news. Listen for it if you haven't noticed it yet. Constant repetition.

That is the media doing what the media always do. Showing people what they want to see, people want to think everything is going to be fine? that is what they are going to tell them, the same thing that happens since the beginning of humanity. And most people know it, one way or another, and want it.

You don't? then stop doing it, professionals know most of the information directed to the public is trash, sometimes lies, sometimes honest mistakes, sometimes just nonsense without any reason. Do you think nutritionists live reading about the new diet in magazines? or economists listen to the tips on investment of a TV show?

There is no obligation to see or believe what is on the mass media, there is internet now, scientists with proven careers that have twitter accounts, blogs, academic societies that put out a lot of information. One afternoon is enough to get the picture so you can safely ignore what the media is offering. No need of conspiracies, plain reports of data can let you know what is happening, its quite boring but if you wanted entertainment you can always go back to open TV.

@i@n @lovecrafting yes, I agree with you both. A negative attitude never gets you anywhere in terms of solving problems. I mean just take a look at social media nowadays, and you’ll see what I mean.

And bokuda right above me was just talking about the fact that England apparently found a vaccine, and will start producing it in September so that they’ll have it this coming February. I’m telling you, between that and things opening up around the world, I can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Lets not forget how Japanese TVs were announcing some years ago how harmless is the Fukushima's nuclear radiation.

And almost 10 years later, there is no evidence they were wrong.

Why don't we just hope for the Best instead of being negative all days about that Virus?

virusrex

Vaccines are the bigest deception played on humans. Leading to an untold number of autoimmune, neurologic and plus, diseases = a life dependence of the individual on hospitals - pharmaceutical industry.

I am a vaccine disabled; hence ( I was forced to), I did my home work for the past 20 years.

When I speak about this subject , I try to simplify it to the maximum ( simple words), for that everyone can understand.

Beside, we are not allowed to post a long list of links on here of official documents to prove my point.

=

sample:

Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

Chien-Te Tseng,

Elena Sbrana,

Naoko Iwata-Yoshikawa,

Patrick C. Newman,

Tania Garron,

Robert L. Atmar,

Clarence J. Peters,

Robert B. Couch

===

Mos of us are well aware that Big Pharma infiltrators enter chats and conversations to deceive and switch the public perception on sensitive subjects related to their INDUSTRY.

===

PS: @ Monthy:

Once more is not about negativity, is about avoiding furter deceit and abuse by a multi billions industry which care less about human lives.

Living in denial will not help to rain pink sakura over our heads.

=

Published: April 20, 2012

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

I'm not against vaccines in principle, as some of them have been extremely beneficial - think smallpox, polio, etc.

This issue in this case is the safety and efficacy of a vaccine rushed into production and use. In the case of COVID-19, I wouldn't go near it until I've personally injected senior politicians and other assorted authorities with it, on their consent. If any refused, you'd know something's up.

That is never a real argument, vaccines can be a very simple thing to make, it literally takes less than 2 weeks to have something to try. The rest of the time is invested in prove them effective and safe, and that is what takes at least 4-6 months. A vaccine can have an accelerated production schedule and a perfectly normal testing period. Next year is a perfectly normal and adequate timing for something that has been tested the same as any other drug or vaccine already available. "Rushing" it in this case would mean not going the elaborate way and simply do the straightforward thing,

If that's the case, why do vaccines usually take years of clinical trials and approvals to get to market? I'm not doubting that they can take a short time to produce - it's the efficacy and safety that concerns me - plus the media and political push behind it. Doesn't that latter part at least prompt you to question what's going on, even if you accept the safety of whatever vaccines are released?

UK is gonna start producing a vaccine on September, and will be available by Feb. 2021

I trust more the English than the Japanese.

Lets not forget how Japanese TVs were announcing some years ago how harmless is the Fukushima's nuclear radiation.

@kyronstavic

I can understand why you may think that about polio and smallpox, after all the propaganda that has been purred on our heads for years and years ... I thought the same BEFORE I got disabled by vaccines.

One will be horrified to realised how many at first HEALTHY children's and adults ( worldwide), have been disabled by V.

I suggest to check the great journalist findings on polio vaccines: ( as well on other related subjects).

His website name is : " The Corbett Report " : he show his findings / documents on Polio vaccines.

The problem with this new CV unsafe vaccine test is that they are starting to inject it in the most valuable people : 'The Health Care Workers'.

Vaccines are the bigest deception played on humans. Leading to an untold number of autoimmune, neurologic and plus, diseases = a life dependence of the individual on hospitals - pharmaceutical industry.

That is also false, antivaxxers always resort to dark conspiracies without not a hint of proof about anything that they say, nothing; just imagined things that you have to believe just because someone without any idea about the topic, and with demonstrated lies and mistakes ask you to trust him. Sorry but that is not something anybody rational should do.

I am a vaccine disabled; hence ( I was forced to), I did my home work for the past 20 years.

That is irrelevant, first because you need to demonstrate it with scientific data in order to be taken as an argument (you have provided nothing here) else it can be ignored; and more importantly, because even if that was true it would do absolutely nothing to prove everything mistaken that you have written here. All those things remain false and easy to prove so.

When I speak about this subject , I try to simplify it to the maximum ( simple words), for that everyone can understand.

Simple is not a problem, false is, you have written here many things that are easy to demonstrate as completely false, make no sense and you have done nothing to demonstrate they are not false. Simplifying something is not an excuse to make up false things about it.

Beside, we are not allowed to post a long list of links on here of official documents to prove my point.

No, that is no excuse either, anybody can put a single link with the list without problems, the real reason you don't put it is because you don't have it, there is no official document that can prove the false things you have written here.

Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

You have proved yourself wrong.

This is a preclinical trial, describing failed vaccine candidates and the reason why those never progressed above this step, they were proved not safe in the most elementary test done and therefore the report proves that science is perfectly capable of discarding unsafe attempts long before anything is tried on humans. Nobody has ever said that every single approach makes a safe vaccine, just that those that advance to be on the market do so after being demonstrated as much as possible to be less dangerous than the disease they prevent.

If the conspiracy you imagine were true, this article would not exist. Because it supposedly desires this and would have no reason to publish it. But since it is out in the open (and also because many other vaccine candidates do not have these serious side effects) it is only logical to conclude it is not real.

Mos of us are well aware that Big Pharma infiltrators enter chats and conversations to deceive and switch the public perception on sensitive subjects related to their INDUSTRY.

The thing that you should be well aware is that pointing out extremely easy to find falsehoods in your arguments (like you thinking mutating viruses cannot have vaccines) does not make anybody an infiltrator, just that you are wrong. If you don't want to be intellectually honest and will not accept your mistakes that is something completely personal, but pointing out that you said something mistaken and proving it requires nothing but be interested in the truth.

You failed to demonstrate that vaccines are a better business than hospitalized patients, that there are no vaccines for RNA viruses, that every single expert things is impossible to make those vaccines, that the COVID-19 is laboratory made, or that there is any logical reason why literally millions of doctors, nurses, researchers, public health workers, etc. etc. keep vaccinating their children supposedly knowing they are killing them, just so their bosses (not even themselves) can get more money.

An honest person would accept then that all those things are false.

This issue in this case is the safety and efficacy of a vaccine rushed into production and use. In the case of COVID-19, I wouldn't go near it until I've personally injected senior politicians and other assorted authorities with it, on their consent. If any refused, you'd know something's up.

That is never a real argument, vaccines can be a very simple thing to make, it literally takes less than 2 weeks to have something to try. The rest of the time is invested in prove them effective and safe, and that is what takes at least 4-6 months. A vaccine can have an accelerated production schedule and a perfectly normal testing period. Next year is a perfectly normal and adequate timing for something that has been tested the same as any other drug or vaccine already available. "Rushing" it in this case would mean not going the elaborate way and simply do the straightforward thing,

Still, it is very obvious nobody is going to be forced to be vaccinated, at least here. People can actually choose to die without proven treatments (like blood transfusions) so you are perfectly free to refuse anything you don't like and that is a good thing. A vaccine being developed is not about making people use it, is about giving people the option to do it. Specially if they are increased danger from contracting it.

@JAL1973

Thanks, I haven't been through all his immunisation videos. I know James Corbett's work reasonably well - it's good stuff though there's so much it's hard to keep up! (And bumped into his video guy by chance on the train a few years ago). Hope you've recovered as much as possible.

There's just such an unrelenting and escalating push for everyone to accept whatever vaccines are on the way, it's more than a touch concerning. I'm wary that getting a vaccine will be a precondition for international's travel, and am dead-set against the emotional blackmail that is being used to persuade people into accepting it.

Virusrex, thanks for taking the time to respond at length. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on the honest people who believe they are doing the right thing, and in most cases they are. That's why I said earlier that I don't oppose the principle of vaccines, as long as they're safe.

The issue is the media, who in general understand little of anything, and governments who are as bad or worse, and both are egging on the Big Pharma companies while promising salvation to we the suckers in the form of a vaccine, very soon. And Pharma companies are in business to make money. Don't get me wrong, I'm a solid free-marketeer but dead set against crony capitalism/corporate socialism where governments get to pick winners.

I've been around long enough to know that there some genuinely devious people on our planet, and suspect this concerted push for a cure is multi-dimensional. Just listen to the drumbeat of "new normal" and "safe" and "vaccine" regularly percolating through the media on a daily basis. It's relentless, especially on the NHK news. Listen for it if you haven't noticed it yet. Constant repetition.

@kyronstavic

Is relieving to find more people who are willing to use their critical thinking, to study various sources and to come to their own conclusions.

Thank you for your kind words, unfortunately there's no recovery possible after a vaccine induced disability; Once injected there's no turning back. The immune system is compromised forever.

Now I'm dependent on "medications" ( for some of them, I need to travel the other part of the world to get them in person), that if I do not have them, my life will end quite fast.

So, anyone who think that a V is the solution, think well before letting yourself deceived and scared into taking it.

( in addition : V. are NEVER tested on people with preexisting conditions, ONLY on "healthy people" = think about it as long as you need).

You’e right, there’s no vaccine that can keep up with the mutations, but there’s a mountain of cash to be made from peddling it. Not to mention the repeat business.

That's what this whole thing is about. Luckily for big pharma, there is an unlimited number of easily duped people for them to milk.

I mean, if COVID-19 were really as bad as the media made it out to be, 6 months later it is far from living up to that hype. A little worse, statistically, than influenza (mortality rates are being over-reported though).

Corona viruses are nothing new. Just this time, big pharma got the leverage they couldn't get with SARS/MERS. It was like taking candy from children for them...

They'll never stick 'the cure' in me.

There's NO vaccine possible on a virus that mutate constantly; as it was not possible for SARS and MERS ; this is murderous to use healthy people and others as guinea pigs . The world has lost any integrity and humanity. Money is the GOD.