Japan to begin releasing second batch of Fukushima water on Oct 5

TEPCO decided to release approximately 31,200 tons in four rounds during the current fiscal year through March.

How many batches are there? Never enough to dump tainted water to ocean.

Four rounds on single fiscal year, we will see this for several years.

If China or Korea were doing this Japan would protest like there's no tomorrow.

Dango bongToday  07:37 am JST

If China or Korea were doing this Japan would protest like there's no tomorrow.

They have been releasing more every year for decades. Try to keep up.

I feel safe because there is a ‘global

standard’ for radioactive releases.

Not!

Even my Japanese wife has stopped buying fish from the Pacific side of Japan now and she normally isn't worried.

One release won't have a huge effect but the release over 30-40 or 50 yrs will have I am sure .

Well, it's OK.

I am done eating fish from Japan. I already enjoyed my last sushi dinner of my life time.

How many batches are there?

At the current speed of four batches a year, with a thousand tanks to go, ten tanks per batch, while 17 tanks are filled per year (around 60 m³ every day), we're looking at 1731 tanks -- 173 batches -- released over 43 years.

If they ramp it up to their planned speed of six batches a year, that number would go down to 1391 tanks over 24 years.

Japan NEVER learns how to live on this beautiful Earth!

Japan MUST poison ALL Earth's internected oceans!!

One day Japan will realize her Great Mistake in poisoning

ALL Oceans on Beautiful Planet Earth!

TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"IAEA Conducts Its First Seawater Sampling After Japan’s Discharge of ALPS Treated Water, Finds Tritium Level Below Limit"

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/iaea-conducts-its-first-seawater-sampling-after-japans-discharge-of-alps-treated-water-finds-tritium-level-below-limit

Preparations will begin next Tuesday to check tritium levels when the treated water is diluted with sea water before release.

Despite the water having a tritium concentration level below that of global safety standards, China has imposed a blanket ban on Japanese seafood imports.

No abnormal tritium levels have been detected in seawater or fish samples collected from around the nuclear power plant so far.

Tritium contained in the discharged water is expected to total approximately 5 trillion becquerels, less than a quarter of the annual upper limit of 22 trillion becquerels, according to TEPCO.

Yes.

But what about the other radionuclides?

Not mentioning the far more dangerous radionuclides will not cause them to disappear.

But what about the other radionuclides?

Seriously. You keep asking this question, being answered, you acknowledge the answer ... and then you ask it again at the next occasion. What gives?

Roy

Today 09:20 am JST

But what about the other radionuclides?

> Seriously. You keep asking this question, being answered, you acknowledge the answer ... and then you ask it again at the next occasion. What gives?

Lol what answer?

This very article does not even mention it as I pointed out.

And the gullible it course just accept it

Roy

Today 09:20 am JST

you acknowledge the answer ...

That's just disgusting

Lol what answer?

That the other radionuclides have been virtually removed by the ALPS process, to the point where combined they only make for around 20 Bq/L in the waste water, around 0.013% of the radioactivity. Most of them don't even cross the detection limit. As confirmed by seven independent laboratories for the first batch, and the JAEA for the current second batch (and for all future batches).

Want to hear that again next time you ask?

This very article does not even mention it as I pointed out.

And because this one news article does not mention it, that information does not exist?

Around 140g to 200g of tritium is produced in the upper atmosphere every year. The Pacific Ocean contains around 8400g of tritium, while the total amount of tritium at Fukushima is less than 3g.1. A key point to remember is that sea water already contains small amounts of tritium. Tritium is produced naturally in small quantities in the upper atmosphere, and gets into the oceans through rainfall. So, all you doom sayer's, what are you going to do about that?.... I know, maybe ban all rainfall.

Roy

Today 09:30 am JST

Lol what answer?

> That the other radionuclides have been virtually removed by the ALPS process, to the point where combined they only make for around 20 Bq/L in the waste water, around 0.013% of the radioactivity. Most of them don't even cross the detection limit. As confirmed by seven independent laboratories for the first batch, and the JAEA for the current second batch (and for all future batches).

> Want to hear that again next time you ask?

> This very article does not even mention it as I pointed out.

> And because this one news article does not mention it, that information does not exist

the JAEA for the current second batch (and for all future batches).

So not iaea anymore but jaea.

And you believe the radionuclides are gone just like that.

As I said gullible.

in a move likely to draw further ire from China.

Ignore China. It has:

1) A detailed explanation of the process, and its safety, from the Japanese government

2) Confirmation of the safety of the process from the IAEA (which includes Chinese experts)

3) An invitation to visit the site to see operations for itself, as the South Koreans and others did

4) Independent monitoring by the IAEA

5) Confirmation from the IAEA that the first release was well within safe levels

6) An invitation to take part in an international monitoring framework (which it refused)

...and it still cries about this, as its stance is purely to gain political leverage over Japan, not for any safety reasons. After all, China is the world's worst polluter, with some of the most lax regulation/enforcement.

Just treat the country as the lost cause that it is, until the CCP falls and it starts behaving in a reasonable manner.

By the way can you show us the info where they tested how effective or how well the alps process works?

isabelle

Today 09:38 am JST

in a move likely to draw further ire from China.

> Ignore China. It has:

> 1) A detailed explanation of the process, and its safety, from the Japanese government

> 2) Confirmation of the safety of the process from the IAEA (which includes Chinese experts)

The wastewater checked by iaea was just the first batch that was already released is it not?

As Roy posted above the succeeding releases are being checked just by jaea, which if I recall correctly is just checking the sample given to them by tepco

It’s Groundhog Day all over again.

Talk about swallowing hook line sinker and fishing rod

Peter Neil

Today 09:58 am JST

It’s Groundhog Day all over again

Hahaha yeah

The wastewater checked by iaea was just the first batch that was already released is it not?

That is correct. The IAEA was never supposed to check all the batches before release. It was asked to corroborate that TEPCO and the JAEA deliver accurate analyses. They did that by independently analysing the first batch and compare their results with those from TEPCO and the JAEA. The process was found to be accurate:

"The results of this ILC demonstrate a high level of accuracy and competence on the part of TEPCO. This should provide confidence in TEPCO’s capability for undertaking accurate and precise source monitoring related to the discharge of ALPS treated water." [Source: IAEA}

the succeeding releases are being checked just by jaea

They are being checked by TEPCO and double-checked by the JAEA.

which if I recall correctly is just checking the sample given to them by tepco

And that's where we, yet again, enter conspiracy theory terrain: TEPCO is giving out manipulated samples, is that what you are saying? Do you really think they are that stupid?

If China or Korea were doing this Japan would protest like there's no tomorrow.

China and Korea are doing the same thing. In fact, they are dumping more waste water than Japan is.

Japan NEVER learns how to live on this beautiful Earth!

And China and the West does know how to live on this beautiful Earth???????

China and Korea are doing the same thing. In fact, they are dumping more waste water than Japan is.

Ironically, even Japan itself is dumping much more radioactivity into the sea at their other nuclear power plants. But noone gives a foot because those power plants are not called "Fukushima".

One release won't have a huge effect but the release over 30-40 or 50 yrs will have I am sure .

But the west conducted nuclear test and dumped waste water into ocean for over 50 years.

People should be more worried about all of the microplastics and fish poop in the ocean

Happy with radioactive discharges at ‘low levels’?

Look up ‘bioaccumulation’ and learn a thing or two…

Look up ‘bioaccumulation’ and learn a thing or two…

Bioaccumulation and biomagnification doesn't happen with tritium (outside of laboratory experiments).

Dango bong

If China or Korea were doing this Japan would protest like there's no tomorrow.

Releasing water containing Tritium into the ocean? Both China and Korea are doing this. Routinely and at much higher levels than at Fukushima. Can you tell us where the protest is?

Japan's LDP Govt and TEPCO named Fukushima contaminated water "treated water" and emphasize tritium only, repeatedly propagandizes as if Fukushima nuclear water contain no radioactivity besides tritium or as if it's same to drainage of other not-wrecked nuclear plants.

But, it directly cooled melted radiation debris, still contain many kinds of radioactivity such as Strontium90, Cesium137, Plutonium239, Cobalt60, Cadmium113 even after filtering.

Also, Japan has other option such as storaging on the ground but Govt and TEPCO disregarded it from at the first on the excuse of saving cost.

Besides, Japan's officials haven't considered long-term bioconcentration risk at all.

On the other hand, in Japan where press freedom index is around 70th, major media continue to avoid even reporting such as other practicable option that can avoid dumping into the ocean, contained radioactivity other than tritium, domestic experts' dissent or opposition from Pacific islands.

About this issue, majority Japanese know nothing other than advertisement of Japanese Govt that domestic major media repeating day by day.

Jeeesh... al the people worrying about Tritium in the ocean... accoridng to you, a person that after going to the dentist takes an 8 hour flight to a resort, eats a pan cake with fruits in it, drinks some coconut water after a run on the beach and by night drinks a couple of spirits... and does that once every couple of years.. that person is going to die of radiation poisoning, like soon!!

....eat two bananas and tell me how much you glow

Oh oh kill the ocean

Hideomi KuzeToday 01:16 pm JST

You're just repeating propaganda that I and others have already addressed on other threads. I will therefore repost previous answers.

But, it directly cooled melted radiation debris, still contain many kinds of radioactivity such as Strontium90, Cesium137, Plutonium239, Cobalt60, Cadmium113 even after filtering.

Other radionuclides are removed/reduced to well within safe levels by ALPS. Here's a basic overview:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2359217-fukushima-the-inside-story-of-the-alps-treated-water/

And here's more information on the TEPCO site:

https://www.tepco.co.jp/en/decommision/planaction/alps/index-e.html

Also, Japan has other option such as storaging on the ground

They're running out of space at the site, and they need space to perform other decommissioning work. Even if you were to store the water at another site, it still wouldn't be a viable long-term solution as the amount of land needed would continually increase.

About this issue, majority Japanese know nothing other than advertisement of Japanese Govt that domestic major media repeating day by day.

Then they should educate themselves. There is plenty of information out there, such as this:

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/iaea_comprehensive_alps_report.pdf

Imagine if industrial factories had to be open about what they are dumping in the land/waterways

the posters here would fall off the spectrum they are posting from

They're running out of space at the site, and they need space to perform other decommissioning work. Even if you were to store the water at another site, it still wouldn't be a viable long-term solution as the amount of land needed would continually increase.

that’s because japan is too tiny of a island with lack of land and overpopulation

They're running out of space at the site,

I can't see them running out of space

Actually, there is only 1,000 tanks in the site.

Doing the math, in the 20Km of Restricted Area you can fit approximately 15,993,486 tanks.

@Roy

> Look up ‘bioaccumulation’ and learn a thing or two…

Bioaccumulation and biomagnification doesn't happen with tritium (outside of laboratory experiments).

Sure, you are right but that sort of goes against the evidence of folks living on the coast near nuclear plants

And….

The earth is an enclosed environment where we are literally poisoning ourselves.

By that definition, I would propose that we are all living in one huge out of control experiment

that sort of goes against the evidence of folks living on the coast near nuclear plants

I'm curious, what evidence would that be?

@Roy

Plenty of evidence out there -I’ll find even more for you in a bit too!

Here’s some for starters..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0265931X17307956

https://pubs.rsc.org/de-ch/content/getauthorversionpdf/C9EM00165D

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?pid=diva2%3A581418&dswid=2996

From tritium being bound up with organic particles to the dangers of radiation in sea spray ( the last link)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080920/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31917456/

https://era.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1842/15496/Nelis1990.Pdf;sequence=1

The different points of view are all important and need consideration.

One thing I do remember at the time is that the storage tanks were built as an emergency interim measure. They were never designed for long life, and it soon became apparent that they were fragile, rusting, leaking, and in some cases even moving down the slope.

“We need the land space” must also mean “We cannot maintain these tanks much longer, especially under constant shaking by earthquakes…”

“We cannot maintain these tanks much longer, especially under constant shaking by earthquakes…”

It's filtered and treated water.

What can happen if an earthquake occurs? Would the water end up in the sea?

On the other side, if there is no earthquake the radiation will decay inside that tanks.

And that's where we, yet again, enter conspiracy theory terrain: TEPCO is giving out manipulated samples, is that what you are saying? Do you really think they are that stupid?

You would hope not. but it's not like they haven't done it before.

the operator of the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant has been caught out blatantly misleading investigators appointed by the Japanese parliament to probe the meltdowns. An audio recording heard by AM reveals that a TEPCO official gave false testimony in an apparent bid to stop an investigation being carried out inside the shattered Reactor One building.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/japan-fukushima-tepco-1.3645516

Once it starts it will never end. People get used to it and for the next 30 years, the world will be a different place with bigger distractions.

Actually this disaster could have been prevented if they had installed a cooling system above and away from the nuclear plant. It was entirely foreseeable!

"The Fukushima accident was preventable. Had the plant's owner TEPCO and NISA followed international best practices and standards, they would had predicted the possibility of the plant being struck by the size of tsunami that materialized in 2011."

How are we to trust the Japanese government now?

Am I from the future I swear it's the same issue 10 years ago

Taiwan blocks 18,000 kg of Japanese fish due to excessive chemicals

Taipei, Sept. 26 (CNA) A shipment of more than 18,000 kg of frozen fish from Japan has been rejected at Taiwan's border due to the presence of excessive levels of cadmium, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said Tuesday.

https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202309260013

@lunatic above.

What I understood was that the water in the tanks was mostly or all filtered once through the Alps process. How efficiently we do not know. I can imagine that there will be some sludge at the bottom of each tank which should not be discharged.

Under the new two-step (three-step?) discharge plan, this tank water is to be... (filtered again, yes/no? This has not been explained clearly, so perhaps we should assume 'no'?) mixed and diluted with sea water once on its way to the sea, where it will further dilute offshore as it blends with the ocean.

Testing will be undertaken by the various TEPCO and government groups, but also by independent and unfriendly groups such as a zealous and scientifically-trained group of suspicious housewives, as mentioned earlier.

Why not keep the water in tanks?

There is little more that 1000 tanks in a space where you can fit approximately 15,993,486 tanks.

If any tank breaks, the water will just go to the sea.

Imagine how many food bans and misunderstandings in international politics you will save.

delusions you are peddling.

What do you mean? My maths are wrong?

Why is it not feasible for you?

 building tanks in perpetuity 

Last time I checked the decommissioning was expected to take 30~40 years.

At the pace we are now, 1000 tanks a decade: We will need 4,000 tanks.

Is building 4,000 tanks delusional?

Is building 4,000 tanks delusional?

No. But building more tanks is not a solution to the problem, it is just kicking the can down the road. As much as you (and China) like to whinge about it, the problem is really not the waste water. The problem is that the space occupied by tanks is needed for decommissioning the plant.

the space occupied by tanks is needed for decommissioning the plant.

We can fit 15,993,486 tanks in the 20Km of Restricted Area.

Can't see any problem of space there.

lunatic

the space occupied by tanks is needed for decommissioning the plant.

> We can fit 15,993,486 tanks in the 20Km of Restricted Area.

> Can't see any problem of space there.

There is no longer a 20 km restricted area.

All the land is owned by someone.

Can't see any problem of space there.

So let's approach it from another angle: What happens to the 4,000 or 5,000 tanks when the Fukushima reactor cleanup is done after, let's optimistically say, 50 years? Do they just stay there?

Fukushima reactor cleanup is done after, let's optimistically say, 50 years? Do they just stay there?

The clean-up includes decommissioning of tanks as well.

It doesn't make sense to think otherwise.

The clean-up includes decommissioning of tanks as well.

And.

That.

Is.

What.

They.

Are.

Doing.

Right.

Now.

we agree that there's no space problems.

Then leave the tanks alone.

After 50 years the radiation will degrade.

And radiation filters technology will be much better in 50 years.

we agree that there's no space problems.

Stop saying we agree when we don't. Just because I said it is doable to build thousands more tanks does not mean I agree that it should be done. Especially, and this bears repeating, since they need the space the tanks currently occupy.

After 50 years the radiation will degrade.

From inconsequential to inconsequential.

And radiation filters technology will be much better in 50 years.

It is already working perfectly fine, as each and every analysis confirms.

Especially, and this bears repeating, since they need the space the tanks currently occupy.

We did the math already, Why would you think we need more space?

From inconsequential to inconsequential.

Explain that to me, the radiation will not decay in 50 years?

It is already working perfectly fine, as each and every analysis confirms.

Wrong!

Analysis says there is Tritium, strontium-90 (Sr-90), cesium-137 (Cs-137), and cobalt-60 (Co-60).

In 50 years filters will certainly be better than the current ALPS.

Don't you agree?

Why would you think we need more space?

I did not say "more space", I said they need the space the tanks currently occupy.

Analysis says there is Tritium,

I said "inconsequential", not "nonexistent". Tritium in the released amounts is inconsequential.

strontium-90 (Sr-90), cesium-137 (Cs-137), and cobalt-60 (Co-60).

Radioisotopes other than tritium are only contained in trace amounts, way beneath tap water levels. And that is before dilution. The ALPS process verifiably works.

 they need the space the tanks currently occupy.

oh! that's bad luck!

And no one thought for a moment in building new tanks in a more convenient place.

Or... is much better to get trillions of loses in food exports, and destroy Japanese external relations.

Are we nuts?!

The ALPS process verifiably works.

You are missing the question.

Will the radiation decay, and we will the APLS technology become obsolete in 50 years from now?

And no one thought for a moment in building new tanks in a more convenient place.

Yes. They really should have asked you first.

Or... is much better to get trillions of loses in food exports,

It's not even "trillions" in yen.

and destroy Japanese external relations.

With China? Yeah, it's a bummer, those relations were so great before.

Will the radiation decay, and we will the APLS technology become obsolete in 50 years from now?

Can you rephrase that in English?

Yes. They really should have asked you first.

Do they have space to make that 4,000 tanks?

Because if they do, its the only way to go.

With China? Yeah, it's a bummer, those relations were so great before.

To name a few: China, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Russia.

Can you rephrase that in English?

2 questions:

Will the radiation of the wastewater decay if its 50 years inside a tank?

Could APLS technology become outdated within the next 50 years?

Do they have space to make that 4,000 tanks?

Apparently not. The maps I have seen of the area seem to confirm that.

Will the radiation of the wastewater decay if its 50 years inside a tank?

Yes. From inconsequential to inconsequential. It will also decay in the ocean, from feck all to feck all.

Could APLS technology become outdated within the next 50 years?

That I cannot answer you.

Apparently not. The maps I have seen of the area seem to confirm that.

I'm sorry for insisting.

Can you confirm without a shadow of a doubt that there is no place within a 20-kilometer radius?

Yes. From inconsequential to inconsequential.

Great! There are only positive aspects to leaving the contaminated water inside the tanks.

The tanks were not constructed to last years and no tank will last 50years.

lunatic

Can you confirm without a shadow of a doubt that there is no place within a 20-kilometer radius?

The land is privately owned and they would have to be willing to sell it.

no tank will last 50years.

they are build of concrete, the cost of re-building and upgrade is so low its laughable.

they would have to be willing to sell it.

You really think owners won't be willing to sell it?!

In that case the government may employ legal mechanisms such as eminent domain (also known as compulsory purchase or expropriation) to acquire private land for specific purposes.

I'm sorry for insisting.

You can insist as much as you like, it won't change that you are essentially arguing that everyone else but you is stupid, disingenuous, or homicidally indifferent.

I'm done trying to argue you out of a position you did not argue yourself into.

The tanks were not constructed to last years and no tank will last 50years.

Hilarious!

Almost as funny as your statement that Finland doesn't have earthquakes.

We can fit 15,993,486 tanks in the 20Km of Restricted Area.

It's mathematics, my friend.

I apologize if that has hurt your feelings.

lunatic

no tank will last 50years.

they are build of concrete, the cost of re-building and upgrade is so low its laughable.

They are built from steel.

they would have to be willing to sell it.

You really think owners won't be willing to sell it?!

The majority do not want to sell their family land.

In that case the government may employ legal mechanisms such as eminent domain (also known as compulsory purchase or expropriation) to acquire private land for specific purposes

There is no compulsory purchase laws in Japan.

There is no 20 km restricted area,

There is no compulsory purchase laws in Japan.

There is no 20 km restricted area,

And there are no earthquakes in Finland according to you.

Still sticking to that myth?

Yes there is no 20 km restricted area although there are some small areas which are restricted due to high levels of radiation.

And yes in Japan there are no compulsory purchase laws.

lunaticToday 02:24 am JST

they would have to be willing to sell it.

You really think owners won't be willing to sell it?!

Still costs major $$$

lunaticToday 02:31 am JST

We can fit 15,993,486 tanks in the 20Km of Restricted Area.

They aren't going to build tanks on roads, power lines, rivers, hillsides, etc. etc. When you look at what land is actually available, it goes down a huge amount.

Wallace 2:11 am

no tank will last 50years.

There are tanks that last over 50 years. With proper maintenance, construction and preparation, tanks can last a very long time.