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Medical staff, elderly should get COVID vaccination first: task force

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No way? How many hours did it take how many experts to decide the obvious?

9 ( +16 / -7 )

Clinical trials for 30 of the 169 vaccine candidates? So I take it that we’re getting pretty close to a vaccine (or vaccines) being available then? I mean even if it is emergency workers in the elderly first, this is still definitely a good sign if that’s the case.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

“Emergency workers and* the elderly“ My mistake.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The elderly should not have priority over pregnant women and emergency workers

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

This is going to be a problem no matter what. Everyone thinks that "they" should be first, and while it's a difficult decision, the elderly going first, is probably the most economically smart move the government could make.

The elderly should not have priority over pregnant women and emergency workers

First off, there has to be enough evidence that the vaccine is SAFE for pregnant women, and that the vaccine does not actually infect the fetus.

Next elderly , medical workers, and emergency workers, will more than likely be vaccinated at practically the same time, it's not going to be "Ok we have to find ALL the elderly before we start on the "next" in line on the priority list!"

If the vaccine does work, the elderly need priority as if they contract the virus, odds are they will have symptoms, and need a very high level of medical care and attention, and it will further bleed the system of resources that are needed elsewhere.

This is not an easy decision to make, and I am rather surprised that the government is actually DOING something ahead of time, and not as they typically do, AFTER the fact.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Common sense if the vaccine which hasn’t had long term clinical testing actually works and side effects don’t outweigh it advantages.

About 70% of deaths in patients are over 70.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

my wife’s a nurse and quit rightly pointed out she doesn’t want to be a human guinea pig. These vaccines have been rushed and the companies are legally not accountable for any side effects what so ever.

Also with Japan ordering 1200000 vaccines which is the same as the population we’re concerned that they group thinking mindset here will lead to a vertically forced vaccine.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Seriously. How many of them were employed on the "Task Force", how much were they paid and for how many days, to come up with this stunning conclusion?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well, duh.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

These vaccines have been rushed and the companies are legally not accountable for any side effects what so ever.

That is false, any vaccine for next year can be as thoroughly tested as any other vaccine now in the market. Pharmaceutical companies have the legal duty to prove to the maximum practical degree possible that the vaccines are safe and effective enough to be put on the market. What you are confused about is if the government chooses to recommend or make the vaccination a requisite for something, then they have to assume responsibility for doing it.

Anybody chooses what kind of "guinea pig" they will become, either from a carefully tested vaccine with known amount of antigens and responses or from an uncontrolled infection with completely unknown long term effects that have just began to become apparent.

Also with Japan ordering 1200000 vaccines which is the same as the population we’re concerned that they group thinking mindset here will lead to a vertically forced vaccine.

There is not a single vaccine that is forced in Japan, this case does not have to be different.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Yes.

Japan isn’t a third world country where drug companies operate without checks and balances.....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

How many hours did it take how many experts to decide the obvious?

Why should the elderly be given priority over those with diabetes and other conditions making them susceptible to Covid 19? How about the nurses and doctors that care for the Covid 19 patients?

And why are we talking so much about a vaccine that does not even exist and may never?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Im sorry, but I have a little bit different point of view. 一抹の不安 I understand that worker are on the front line and should have the vaccine first but shouldn't we give it to the group of elderly people first to see how it works and if it works? What if it will be some kind of opposite effect of vaccine especially now when we are rushing to get the cure for Coronavirus. Did it went needed amount of trials?

If we give it straight to health care workers and doctors we might lose them, and then situation will become really bad.

Government should think about that, losing the last resistance line is bad!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

To those people arguing about whether the elderly, emergency/health workers, or people with underlying illnesses should get the vaccine (if we even get one) first... read the article properly, dammit. I've put the relevant recommendations in bold for you.

*Japan's coronavirus task force compiled on Friday draft guidelines on vaccination that say t*he government should prioritize inoculating medical workers, the elderly and those with underlying illnesses.

See? They're all in there. No need to fight.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Though knowing the J-Gov, the fact that I have multiple chronic illnesses on my medical record, and am prescribed a lot of medication for those won't count as proof as underlying medical condition, and I will have to fill out a paper form, stamp it with my hanko, and either fax or post it somewhere...

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

my wife’s a nurse and quit rightly pointed out she doesn’t want to be a human guinea pig. These vaccines have been rushed and the companies are legally not accountable for any side effects what so ever.

Also with Japan ordering 1200000 vaccines which is the same as the population we’re concerned that they group thinking mindset here will lead to a vertically forced vaccine.

All very impressive, but you have made no secrecy of your hostility to vaccines in past JT threads. That's "vaccines", not "this vaccine". Which further diminishes the already very limited credibility conferred by "my wife is a nurse".

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

You guys go ahead! No rushed vaccine for me, maybe 10 years down the road once we know for sure that people won't go blind, become sterile or worse. In the mean time I'll trust my immune system to do the work.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

You don't trust that the medical workers who undergo vaccinations know what they're doing?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Abe, and Kato are first.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

And why are we talking so much about a vaccine that does not even exist and may never?

Because these kind of discussions are very delicate and important, and beginning to do them when the vaccine is just about to be put to use is a recipe for disaster, there is nothing wrong with discussing possibilities from now and deciding what is the best thing to do so people have time to understand it and accept it.

Im sorry, but I have a little bit different point of view. 一抹の不安 I understand that worker are on the front line and should have the vaccine first but shouldn't we give it to the group of elderly people first to see how it works and if it works?

By the time the vaccine is put to use this has been already done, that is the whole point of clinical trials.

Also, ethically it is unacceptable to use the vulnerable population as sacrifices for the benefit of the rest of the population. Going back to the dark ages just because of convenience is not something that anybody that wishes for the advancement of humanity should be considering.

You guys go ahead! No rushed vaccine for me, maybe 10 years down the road once we know for sure that people won't go blind, become sterile or worse. In the mean time I'll trust my immune system to do the work.

No rushed vaccine for anybody actually (maybe Russians?) a vaccine for next year can be tested perfectly fine.

Also, do you know what has a huge lot more of probability of ending up causing blindness, sterility, cancer, or whatever other late complications you can think of? The natural infection, even an asymptomatic one. It simply exposes the body to many times more antigens, both in quantity and variety. Including things made specially by the virus to mess up with the immune system that are not included in any of the vaccines tested.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Also, do you know what has a huge lot more of probability of ending up causing blindness, sterility, cancer, or whatever other late complications you can think of? The natural infection, even an asymptomatic one.

Sadly, many people would gladly choose this risk rather than the imagined risk of the vaccine.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@virusrex @i@n

I believe and trust in science and the medical researchers involved in finding a vaccine for the rona. However, I think that one year is way to little time to know about any side effects specifically long term ones.

You may be fine for one or two years but nobody knows after that, that is the reason why vaccines take many years to develop.

People are so desperate to go back to normal, that they are willing to put a substance in their body which may be dangerous. I get their feeling, I despise masks, social distancing and all things this this pandemic has brought upon us, however I reckon we should be careful with what kind of solutions we bring to the table, we don't want the cure to be worse than the illness itself.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

There IS a treatment that has been very safely used for over 50 years that serves as a prophylactic for such illnesses. In fact, that treatment is being and has been used in Europe successfully these days.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

However, I think that one year is way to little time to know about any side effects specifically long term ones.

And how long has the COVID-19 pandemic been studied? You do know that infectious diseases also have long term effects right? from immunosupression to cancer.

People are so desperate to go back to normal, that they are willing to put a substance in their body which may be dangerous.

Even more than that, people are even willing to put a few extra dozens of things in their bodies, on quantities completely uncontrolled, including some that are perfectly known to be pathogenic in the short, medium and long term. Irrational fears push people to irrational choices.

I get their feeling, I despise masks, social distancing and all things this this pandemic has brought upon us, however I reckon we should be careful with what kind of solutions we bring to the table, we don't want the cure to be worse than the illness itself.

Yeah, I see people that also despise washing their hands even once the whole day, even tiny inconveniences are too much for them to even considerate doing them just because it may help protecting other people.

Still, logically choosing from a very carefully studied and controlled medical intervention, or from a uncontrolled and badly understood infection its extremely easy, even if there are no long term studies for neither, after all the disease is still much more likely to produce problems later, even for asymptomatic patients.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Sorry a detail got deleted.

You may be fine for one or two years but nobody knows after that, that is the reason why vaccines take many years to develop.

Vaccines take many years to develop because the easy ones are already in the marked from decades ago, the only diseases that needed vaccines are those for which the usual methods do not work.

The only way to assess for long term effect are phase IV clinical trials, which begin after the vaccine or drug is already in use by the public, that is obviously not part of the time taken for development. It is still much more likely to discover these long term problems with infections than with vaccines.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Human guinea pigs. Vaccines contain Nano particles of aluminum, needs much more time for testing and trials. I see a spike in Alzheimer’s on the horizon

Very dangerous indeed.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It's cool, I'll go last.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

my wife’s a nurse and quit rightly pointed out she doesn’t want to be a human guinea pig. These vaccines have been rushed and the companies are legally not accountable for any side effects what so ever.

Also with Japan ordering 1200000 vaccines which is the same as the population we’re concerned that they group thinking mindset here will lead to a vertically forced vaccine.

Couldn't agree more with this statement

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I’ll kindly offer to let all other 7 billion people on earth to go before me.

Cue the negatives even though I’m being polite and thoughtful.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Why in the world should the elderly get priority? To prolong their lives for another few years? People who contract the disease in their 20s-40s could have medical complications for the rest of their remaining lives. We should not just think about saving lives but saving the quality of lives for those who live.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Nonsense. All of this. The elderly can wait. It those of us who go out in Society that need it. Make us immune then the workers and their kids can be safe to move about. If we are safe then society can function.

medical workers, teachers, construction workers, service industry people, etc. Need it first

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Why in the world should the elderly get priority? To prolong their lives for another few years?

Yeah, why should anyone want to prolong their lives for a few more years?

I mean, you're pretty much one foot in the grave once ya hits 30, ammirite?

Time to board the Carrousel, don't all rush at once...

(sarcasm, just in case of confusion)

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Given the low priority to Permanent Residents (non-Japanese) and overseas students to return to Japan, complete two weeks in isolation, then return to their lives, I predict the vaccine with either be given to that group first (guinea pig theory) or last (lowest priority on the Japanese totem pole theory).

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The elderly should NOT get priority. They are the ones that don’t wear masks anyway! Those with already underlying conditions and children should be first, the elderly can wait their turn.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Also with Japan ordering 1200000 vaccines which is the same as the population we’re concerned that they group thinking mindset here will lead to a vertically forced vaccine.

Give or take a zero or two that is.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

medical workers, teachers, construction workers, service industry people, etc. Need it first

Yeah, because, like, none of the above could possibly be considered elderly.

What do you think older folk do, sit indoors all day? Just a burden on the youth?

Maybe I'm getting more grumpy in my old age but some of ye need to realize that getting old will happen to you a lot sooner than you think.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The elderly should NOT get priority. They are the ones that don’t wear masks anyway!

Balderdash.

I've seen more younger folk than old, not wearing masks. And plenty of Westerners, at that.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It is a good strategy for society to vaccinate the elderly first.

In my home country Sweden, healthcare has been completely blocked for several months by covid patients in intensive care units. Mostly of them elderly.

This has meant that other care has stopped, almost 200,000 planned operations have been postponed indefinitely, which means that people of working age cannot work and have to suffer unnecessarily.

2,556 have been cared for in intensive care. 5,810 have died so far ,in Sweden and the infection continues but not as fast now.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

By the way Sweden's health authority is probably soon the only country that does not urge citizens not to wear a mask, probably, because it slows down herd immunity too much.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I read exactly the same guidelines in the Australian news last week. I’m also sure the US has a similar plan for their vaccinations. Catch up Japan!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Don't forget the rich and powerful.

Happy face

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hydroxychloroquine and zinc. So many real and legitimate doctors around the world have dealt with patients who have had the wuhan virus and with extremely high success rates survived, yet they get cancelled.

Amazing that some people don't question the intentional censorship.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"By the way Sweden's health authority is probably soon the only country that does not urge citizens not to wear a mask, probably, because it slows down herd immunity too much."

True. Herd immunity is the way to go. Some scientists/doctors/researches/epidemiologists said very early on at the beginnng of 2020 that herd immunity is the best/quickest way to get through this virus.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Hydroxychloroquine and zinc. So many real and legitimate doctors around the world have dealt with patients who have had the wuhan virus and with extremely high success rates survived, yet they get cancelled. 

Amazing that some people don't question the intentional censorship.

So all those real and legitimate doctors were censored? That’s amazing!

What’s the reasoning behind it? Is it a pharmaceutical leftist conspiracy? Why are the fake media hiding the truth? Why are so many other doctors lying and publishing fake research on the dangers of Hydroxy?

That’s a pretty deep rabbit hole. Just give us the short version.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Bob,

Fauci answers your skepticism.

The Virology Journal - the official publication of Dr. Fauci’s National Institutes of Health - published what is now a blockbuster article on August 22, 2005, under the heading - get ready for this - “Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.” (Emphasis mine throughout.) Write the researchers, “We report...that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage.”

This means, of course, that Dr. Fauci (pictured at right) has known for 15 years that chloroquine and it’s even milder derivative hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) will not only treat a current case of coronavirus (“therapeutic”) but prevent future cases (“prophylactic”). So HCQ functions as both a cure and a vaccine. In other words, it’s a wonder drug for coronavirus. Said Dr. Fauci’s NIH in 2005, “concentrations of 10 μM completely abolished SARS-CoV infection.” Fauci’s researchers add, “chloroquine can effectively reduce the establishment of infection and spread of SARS-CoV.”

Dr. Didier Raoult, the Anthony Fauci of France, had such spectacular success using HCQ to treat victims of SARS-CoV-2 that he said way back on February 25 that “it’s game over” for coronavirus.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Lol. Your hot evidence is a Fauci article from FIFTEEN years ago (emphasis mine) on ANOTHER VIRUS (emphasis also mine)?

Well, what a find!

So anyway, you didn’t any of my questions.

What’s the reason behind the big conspiracy to discredit Hydroxy? Who’s benefitting from this!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In every category perm res gaijins will probably be subject to different criteria and excluded from early groups just like we have been on reentry into Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What’s the reason behind the big conspiracy to discredit Hydroxy? Who’s benefitting from this!

Most of us, I like to think. (Silly comment perhaps, but I keep reading that hydroxychloroquine + whatever comes with caveats that are at least as risky as the covid virus itself.)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If we are to begin medical experimentation with untested injections of powerful antigens with potential unknowable surprises, perhaps we'd best NOT begin with our MEDICAL PERSONNEL. If our conscienceless politicians want those for whom the Voice of Authority is tantamount to the Voice of G-d to believe without question that they will be SAVED by these very first attempts at a vaccination, they will not have read the report in Scientific American originally published as "The Dengue Debacle", but was forced to change the title in the massive suppression of this story in the U.S.. You will also notice, maybe, that the enormous Big Pharma media campaign attack to discredit "anti-Vaxxers" (Big Pharma marketing term and whose ONLY objection is the MMR vaccine) died VERY dead at about the same time as this report was published.

But, if someone wants to volunteer for an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine (what 'Human Trials' are), I suppose they should be allowed to do so IF they understand that we have no data on the long term, or short term, effects of ANY new SARS vaccine at this time nor will have in the near future. Nature, in the form of the deadly Dengue disaster we have already created for many thousands of innocent people, is giving us a warning regarding our own collective hubris and dishonesty which we ignore at the risk of our "Medical staff, elderly" and our own safety should panic behavior undermine any 'educated' judgement. And caution is not at all superfluous when dealing with our medical establishments as those paying attention have seen consistently. And one more caveat: If one is required to sign a 'waiver' to get the shot, run in the other direction as fast as you can...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

If we are to begin medical experimentation with untested injections of powerful antigens with potential unknowable surprises, perhaps we'd best NOT begin with our MEDICAL PERSONNEL

Nobody is doing that, clinical trials are the step before inoculation into any segment of the population, so no, there is no experimentation being done on anybody at that point.

If our conscienceless politicians want those for whom the Voice of Authority is tantamount to the Voice of G-d to believe without question that they will be SAVED by these very first attempts at a vaccination, they will not have read the report in Scientific American originally published as "The Dengue Debacle", but was forced to change the title in the massive suppression of this story in the U.S..

Politicians have nothing to do with evaluating the safety and efficacy of vaccines, professional scientists and doctors do, based on cold data on trials preregistered and strictly controlled.

You will also notice, maybe, that the enormous Big Pharma media campaign attack to discredit "anti-Vaxxers" (Big Pharma marketing term and whose ONLY objection is the MMR vaccine) died VERY dead at about the same time as this report was published.

False, it is in the interest of anybody that cares for public health or for declarations to be truthful to discretic (as should be done) the science denialist from antivaxxer groups. Which use any kind of lie to present a safe and effective health intervention as some danger that is not real. The MMR vaccine is just one of the multiple examples where the antivaxxers methods of deceit have become so transparent even they end up recognizing it is a lie.

"Big pharma" would be more on the side of the antivaxxers, after all a vaccine is in comparison a much cheaper thing that take from the the huge billions on economical gains from treating all the complicated covid-19 cases. From a pure economical view pharmaceutical companies make more money the less vaccines are discovered.

But, if someone wants to volunteer for an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine (what 'Human Trials' are), I suppose they should be allowed to do so IF they understand that we have no data on the long term, or short term, effects of ANY new SARS vaccine at this time nor will have in the near future.

You know from what else we don't have any data on the long term effects? the covid-19 infection, that exposes the body to a million times more antigens, and a couple of dozens extra ones, including some made specifically to disrupt your immune system. For all we know even the asymptomatic infection could result in a few years on sterility, cancer, immune problems, blindness or anything else you can imagine.

And no, by the time clinical trials are done we will already have perfectly curated data on the short term effect of the vaccination, that is the whole purpose of doing them.

Nature, in the form of the deadly Dengue disaster we have already created for many thousands of innocent people, is giving us a warning regarding our own collective hubris and dishonesty which we ignore at the risk of our "Medical staff, elderly" and our own safety should panic behavior undermine any 'educated' judgement.

False, ONE single example of a badly distribution, against scientific and medical advice, that by itself produces absolutely no damage (the risk comes from the next infection from a different serotype of the natural disease) is a long way from a disaster.

Panic is never something that "should" be done, much less because of lies, and educated judgement is a much more logical and productive alternative that lets you consider the situation much better, the only ones that refuse to be logical and honest about it are the irrational antivaxxers, that feel threatened when people that know much more than them (including the medical personnel "at risk" from the vaccination) say they are wrong and vaccines are much safer than the natural infection.

And caution is not at all superfluous when dealing with our medical establishments as those paying attention have seen consistently.

Sure, because it is totally believable that every single scientist, doctor, nurse, etc. of the world is in a conspiracy to poison themselves, their own family and friends just so somebody else can make a lot of money, right?

What kind of person can belive that?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What kind of person can belive that?

Give it your best shot Randy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Virology Journal - the official publication of Dr. Fauci’s National Institutes of Health - published what is now a blockbuster article on August 22, 2005, under the heading - get ready for this - “Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.”

A blockbuster article, really.

I trust you understand that SARS CoV and SARS CoV2 are not identical diseases. And that in vitro is not in vivo - a distinction that is absolutely fundamental in biology and medicine. And that primates aren't humans.

For these reasons, that particular study does not come even close to demonstrating hydroxychloroquine is a useful treatment for humans infected with SARS CoV2.

Perhaps the article title blows your mind, but where it says "potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread", it means, as it clearly says in the conclusion, that "chloroquine [...] is effective in inhibiting the infection and spread of SARS CoV in cell culture". Readers of medical and scientific journals are assumed to be capable of understanding such things; the title is not saying, nor is it attempting to tell them, that their results show the drug is a useful treatment for human SARS patients.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I will pass taking a shot even with an underlying illness.

Some people have forgotten or don't know the deaths, disability etc

that the raw polio vaccine that was promoted by the WHO did.

To some people no matter the number of deaths so far it is not their loved ones

money trumps everything.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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