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Tokyo sees week-on-week rise in COVID cases for 4th straight day

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Thanks LDP for protecting the foreign tourists from getting infected by COVID-19 in Japan.

14 ( +31 / -17 )

*They warned that deaths and hospital admissions could keep rising because more people over 55 — those who are most likely to get seriously ill from COVID-19 — *are now getting infected despite high levels of vaccination.

This is a very interesting statement from experts and scientists on another article here on JT this morning.

That says everything about the vaccine and getting not infected.

I think now it is clear, that even you are vaccinated, you can get infected and spread it.

And another statement from the same article:

Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu

There is nothing more to say....I guess.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

No wonder people aren't lining up for their 3rd dose. Most people have probably already had Covid and can't be bothered anymore as it was a sniffle and a headache for most. Australia had a second spike in cases after the first wave of omicron but as with Japan Hospitalizations were down as were deaths. Time to move on!

11 ( +26 / -15 )

This is a perfect example of how the media is trying to whip people into a frenzy by producing click bait which is good for their sales department but serves no other purpose. Ignore it and move on.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

but up 127 from the week earlier,

Are you kidding me?

Up 127 cases within one week in a city of 14.000.000 people?

And that should bring people into panic?

And we are talking here about cases, not about deaths.

There were probably more heart attacks than Covid cases.

And vaccine?

The whole world knows already that even more and more people get vaccinated, the virus does not stop to spread. Which you can see by daily increasing numbers in countries with even a high vaccination rate.

The vaccine lowers your risk of dying or getting seriuosly sick, but it do not protect you of getting infected and spread the virus.

This is what people have to understand.

If you want to make sure, not to get infected, avoid every social contact.

Don't meet your friends, don't meet your family...and so on...lock yourself down into your house for the rest of your life, because this virus will never go away.

But who will do that?

Me for myself, I am 3x vaccinated and wearing mask, but I resume to visit my friends, go to Izakayas and Bars...and so on.

I know that I can catch the virus, and that I can probably die from it, but my personal preventions, 3x vaccinated and mask, makes the risk lower.

But if I avoid all social contact for the rest of my life, the risk that I die is 100%!

*
10 ( +28 / -18 )

This is not news anymore!

No matter what personal conclusions we may have come to about the risk factors of Covid, it is still very much news if you are not self employed and work for a Japanese company, as these figures and government guidelines are taken very seriously at the workplace. This is gunna be a long haul truckers. Navigate well.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Me for myself, I am 3x vaccinated and wearing mask, but I resume to visit my friends, go to Izakayas and Bars...and so on. I know that I can catch the virus, and that I can probably die from it, but my personal preventions, 3x vaccinated and mask, makes the risk lower. But if I avoid all social contact for the rest of my life, the risk that I die is 100%!"

Fully agree there with you Monty.

*

8 ( +11 / -3 )

I'm tired of people pushing their: it's just like a cold, it's not serious, etc etc. If this is the case why do they keep reading these articles? I think sport is a waste of time and never reader sports stories so never comment on them either.

If you want to, you can completely avoid watching sport, never have to go to a football match, can turn to a different channel, can flip the sports page in the newspaper and so on. Those of us who are sick to death of these measures against coronavirus - many of which are simply nonsensical - cannot avoid them however. We cannot easily go on international trips, our families cannot visit us, our lives and freedoms are hugely impacted by all of this.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

What Nihon Tora said.

Cases, schmases. I honestly don't care how many cases there are -- I only care how many serious cases and deaths there are, and those are very low in number.

The latter almost exclusively involves people in their 70s and above. I'm not saying their deaths don't count. I'm not saying "who cares if a bunch of old people die."

But I am saying that when the elderly make up the overwhelmingly vast majority of deaths, THEY are the ones we should be protecting.

It's very much a disservice to society to keep listing the daily, up-to-the-minute, exact "case count." It's scaremongering and as long as the government and media keep doing it, we're going to be living in a constant state of neurotic fear and we're never going to get back to normal.

So take off the masks, enough with the persnickity social distancing, and stop treating yourselves and each other like biohazards rather than the dignified human beings we are. Enough of this crap already. Enough of the neurotic fear. Enough of the masks and all the other COVID charades.

At this point its severity is no worse than that of the flu. Start living like a true human being already.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Just over 7 million confirmed cases of covid in Japan which means the actual covid infections are actually much much higher as everyone with a half a brain here understands. If you don’t then I can’t help you. With currents deaths reported at 28,649 deaths that gives a 0.4% chance of dying from covid. If you accept that there are far more people infected than confirmed cases the 0.4% death rate reduces drastically. At a confirmed 0.4% confirmed death rate I am rather unconcerned. This is from someone over 55, and completely unvaccinated. I trained in my local gym and another during the entire pandemic with the exception of about a month when those gyms closed due to the SOE early in 2020. If you are healthy with a normal immune system there is no need to be hiding under a rock. However if you choose to do so then that of course is your right.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

This is not news anymore!

6 ( +15 / -9 )

waddoToday  09:05 am JST

I'm tired of people pushing their: it's just like a cold, it's not serious, etc etc. If this is the case why do they keep reading these articles? I think sport is a waste of time and never reader sports stories so never comment on them either.

Actually out sounds like you you just want to worry yourself to death.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

This is just trench warfare now.

At the end of the day, you'll just have to live and let live (stay out of other people's business) and do what's best for you...

6 ( +10 / -4 )

you also have to accept that you can be the cause of other people being infected 

Yes, but same on the other side.

Everywhere I go I can get infected by other people.

What you are doing is, you give the blame to the people to infect other people.

And that is not nice.

People in the full packed train every day on my way to work can infect me, people in my office can infect me every day, my wife can bring home the virus from her work or her time on the train and infect me, my son can bring home the virus from school and can infect me, friends and people I meet in bars and Izakayas can infect me, at the hospital by the doctor or the nurse who takes my Covid test can infect me....and so on...

So, should I blame them? Of course not!

Just a few days ago, my coworker who sits in front of me was tested positive.

So should I blame him for that? Of course not!

No idea where he got it, and it is completely irrelevant where he got it.

Because everywhere during your daily life, people can get infected by other people.

But instead of blaming them, I do accept that.

And that is what millions of people all over the world are doing right now, and also the scientists are recommending that:

Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu

People have no other choice than to accept that, because you are nowhere safe.

Except, like I said, you decide to avoid all social contacts and social activities.

But that means a complete lockdown for everyone!

But I think you understand that this is impossible and makes no sense.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

All prep for a Golden Week soe announcement. Mark my words.

Yep, almost a given..。。。summer election is getting closer and the LDP wants to appear it is "tackling the spread & protecting the kokumin...。It looks good on the campaign trail even when the after 8pm mambo jumbo at selected bars is bs.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

It is COVID omicron 2. It is highly infectious, vaccines do not stop it ( maybe prevent it getting more serious, maybe, but they were designed for the original strain not omicron) and even masks do not work particularly well to stop it spreading. The so called border restrictions have done absolutely nothing to stop it entering the country as with previous strain. ( They are totally political as others have said). There will be a new wave in Japan, as usual under reported by minimal testing. The government may make new quasi SOE again for totally political reasons as any quasi SOE measures can do next to nothing to prevent it. Luckily for all, particularly the young it is even less serious than previous strains. Most people will not even know they had it or just think it was a cold. (The number from China with their mass testing are interesting showing the overwhelming % being with no symptoms) The usual suspects will rave on here how serious it is and there should be lockdown blah blah but no one particularly the government is listening to their nonsense.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Who really cares at this stage? If you've been vaccinated, you are probably not much more likely to die of it than if you caught the common flu. Most have been vaccinated, there really isn't much more we can do about it now - it will continue to spread and everybody will be exposed to it eventually. Whether or not everybody will get a full blown symptomatic infection as a result of exposure is another question - but probably not - many will fight if off without it taking hold and many more will have symptoms so mild they will just pass it off as a cold. All these other measures, the mask wearing, social distancing, hand washing, the quasi-SoEs - the most it will do is slow down the progress slightly. The border closure is pretty much meaningless from a public health perspective - it is an entirely political measure.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

@Virusrex

I see a big progress here.

You agree with almost all my points.

And I agree with almost all your comments to my points.

Good to see that.

Only 1 point I am not clearly with you is , And you think we are in the middle of life changing measures in general to prevent heart attacks?

Of course! Heart attacks are also well studied and many measures to prevent heart attacks are well known and implemented by people into their own lives.

When people are getting older, they do preventions to make their risk of heart attacks lower.

But heart attacks are not the topic here.

More discussion will just make the Mods to delete it.

Here I do absolutely agree with you:

Me for myself, I am 3x vaccinated and wearing mask, but I resume to visit my friends, go to Izakayas and Bars...and so on.

Which goes completely on you, for good and for bad

I know that.

Therefore I said, that I know I can probably get infected and can probably die from the virus, but I accept that.

Because for other diseases, best example is influenza, I am in the same situation.

I take my yearly influenza vaccine, but additional I know I can get infected and probably die from influenza. Like 1000s of other people yearly.

But also for influenza, I continue to go to bars, izakayas, and meet friends and family.

Because in my opinion, this virus will stay with us forever in the same way like the influenza.

But to avoid any social contact forever, is it for Covid or Influenza, that will makes me for sure seriously sick, or becoming a madman or die of loneliness or whatever.

Maybe some people can live with avoiding any social contact or any social activity, but not me.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I am not sure what the end game is with the JGov, do they totally want to kill off the tourism industry? do they just want to close Japan off forever? these figures are way smaller than most countries who have opened up to tourists.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

By listening to the experts, that do risk determination for a living and understand much better how epidemics evolve. Using your own biased criteria is not the answer.

I completely disagree!

I also completely disagree!

Since the start of the pandemic, we have seen many of the top experts of epidemiology, infectious diseases, and medicine being attacked and silenced for saying something that big pharma did not like.

Obviously, one will have a distorted view of the pandemic if they only listen to pharma-connected "experts", while ignoring those real top experts that do not have conflicts of interest.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Gotta put a halt to Golden Week for the 3rd time. Any way to make the 'numbers' look bad will be leveraged and you will comply with all the quasi-things.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

*But how to determine certain amount:*

By listening to the experts, that do risk determination for a living and understand much better how epidemics evolve. Using your own biased criteria is not the answer.

I completely disagree!

The experts contradicts themselves many times and even among them you hear different opinions.

Best example is today's JT article about UK:

Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu. Others believe that Britain’s government lifted restrictions too quickly and too soon.

Some say like this, some say opposite.

Therefore, I hear what they are saying, take it under consideration and choose by myself if and what to follow.

What do you say about that form some scientists:

Do you agree with the below?

Yes or No as an answer please.

some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu

3 ( +4 / -1 )

And the problems is that you are perfectly fine with imposing that risk to others for your personal convenience

How about going to work, how about sitting in the full packed office?

How about going to supermarket, how about meeting my family, how about going to doctor or hospital, ....

All of these things are for my personal convenience.

And not only mine, yours too!

For everyone!

Do you say we should quit everything?

So did you give up all these things?

Are you saying that everyone who are going to work every day by train, sits in full packed offices to feed their families to give them a convinient life, going to travel alone or with tgeir families, going to supermarkets to buy delicious food and drinks, if they are getting sick and go to hospital and doctors to recover very soon, and so on...everyone should feel guilty because they can probably spread the virus during doing that?

Are you saying people should feel guilty to live and give their families a nice and happy and convinient life, because they can probably spread a virus, which they can catch in each single situation of their daily life?

If yes, I guess you must feel really guilty, because everyone, including you are doing things, like above. And everyone is doing for their personal and for their families convinience.

(Except you order everday Cup Ramen and water by internet).

And to come back to the Izakaya, many of them have best preventions. Much better than in trains and offices.

But trains and offices are not a problem for the experts, but the Restaurants are.

*

*
3 ( +4 / -1 )

That level is nothing, come on...

If it's up 127, that's about 0.0009% of the population

2 ( +16 / -14 )

If this is the case why do they keep reading these articles?

Because of staying informed!

Information and knowledge about what is going in this world or in the place where you are living is very important.

Especially if it can have an impact on your daily life.

Sport does't have any impact of my daily life, except that I am pissed for 1 day if my favorite UFC fighter lost his or her fight.

I'm tired of people pushing their: it's just like a cold, it's not serious, etc etc

If you are tired of that, then why do you read it?

I guess that you are tired of reading these kind of posts, because they are not reflecting your opinion.

You are not tired of reading it, you are getting upset when you read it, because these posters have a different opinion than you.

So instead of being tired of reading it, you should bring up some counter argues to their opinions.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

wondering what is real purpose of these panic news?

does msm want keep us afraid more?

does msm want us force to be vaccinated ...or what?

any honest word?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

 to avoid exposing others to extra risk and not going out to dinner with your friends for the same reason. Pretending those two situations are the same is obviously invalid.

Of course it is valid!

How do you think will a restaurant owner survive without guests?

Did you recognize how many Restaurants went into bancruptcy over the last 2 years.

Can you imagine how they struggle now to put food on the table without any income?

Ah...no you can not, because you are not involved personally.

As long as someone is not involved personally by losing his or her complete existence, things are easy to say.

And...one more point...everyone who goes to an Izakaya understand and accept that their is a risk to get imposed and infected by other guests. Me too!

If I don't want that, I stay home!

So that is exactly what I said above: Understand and accept that you can get infected everywhere and that you can spread the virus everywhere, or lockdown yourself down in your house for the rest of your life.

But because I know that I can get infected everywhere and that I can spread the virus everywhere, to take an additional risk at an Izakaya, where everyone understands and take the same risk, but on the same hand I can support someone not to lose his complete existence and all income, and also the staff will not lose their jobs, and they can continue to bring food on the table, this additional risk at the Izakaya doesn't count anything.

That is why "quit your job" is not ever on the recommendations from experts.

But "lose your job" or "lose your existence and income" is OK for your experts?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Do you agree with the below?

Yes or No as an answer please.

Yes

So you agree with, Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu.?

Wow!

You know that this agreement from you, contradicts completely everything what you said above.

Because if we follow Covid like a seasonal flu, then everyone can go to Izakayas and walk around without masks,...and so on.

Thank you that you agree to everything I am doing!

(But I still wear mask)

2 ( +3 / -1 )

AntiquesavingToday  12:05 pm JST

letsberealisticToday  11:01 am JST

New Zealand!

The only and I mean only place any lockdown advocate points out as a "success".

2 tiny islands in the middle of nowhere, no land neighbours, I population smaller than Osaka, that ended up cutting itself off from the entire planet now there is a practical plan for the rest of the world!

Today with vaccines better understanding of the virus and treatment, locking yourself in a room and hiding from the world won't change a thing, because as we now clearly see, once you decide to leave your room it starts all over again.

You know the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results;

We did the SOE other countries did the lockdowns even NZ and as soon as they end the virus spreads again and the SOE/lockdown circle starts all over again.

Before the vaccine I would have agreed lockdowns were the best way of contacting the situation but now they are just another example of a futile attempt to reach an unattainable goal at this time.

Japan and the UK and Australia have no land neighbours - what's your point?

And, you have heard of airports and seaports, right? Where in the world do people travel between countries without any restrictions?

I think the issue here is a lack of understanding of how viruses spread.

You are right however that now with Omicron lockdowns make less sense than with pervious versions.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

TBH, I wear a mask in public places purely because of public pressure from outspoken virtue signalling.

But it's come to a point where the absence of seeing facial expressions, a basic form of human interaction - has more of a negative affect on my overall health than the perceived threat COVID. I want to see people smile again!

At some point you also have to see the situation more holistically. Focusing only on masks and "vaccinations" while ignoring the negative impacts of policy, the globe over, becomes rather myopic and damaging.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

To add to my comment above:

To insinuate that not enough people are wearing masks in Japan is just downright disingenuous.

Japan is one of the most "masked up" nations on Earth.

I rarely see someone not wearing a mask. In public places, it's near 100%.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

virusrexToday  12:54 pm JST

How do you think will a restaurant owner survive without guests?

You mean when all his guest die or are isolated because of the infection? this is not a dichotomy, people CAN responsibly use restaurants (or delivery, take out) and restaurant owners can change their business or get subsidies to survive. It is not like acting responsibly means all restaurants will close. That is all product of your imagination.

I usually agree with you on 99% of what you say scientifically.

But now you are the one speculating about things you do not know about!

Please learn about the real world and not just scientific hypotheses and cold facts that do not apply to the daily lives of most!

Please tell us what "subsidies" are you claiming exist? If the ¥1 million I got for 2020 ( finally recieved in January 2021 because of bureaucracy) is what you mean, good luck living on that!

Restaurants, bars etc... closing, even the Japanese and just about every other developed country are admitting the service industry took an insane hit and may never recuperate the losses,

Countries like Canada are still supporting all the people who've lost their jobs two years now taxes can't keep going up just to keep people fed and we're talking the bare minimum to survive.

Change their business please tell us what what does a cook a chef have as a skill to just change the business and oh yeah who's going to pay for that change?

We have the vaccines now we know what to do the major danger is now more or less passed as long as we keep up the vaccinations as needed and act responsibly but not locking ourselves down into a room closing all our businesses and acting like scared little children in the medieval times locked in our castles!

As for the death tolls the vast, vast, vast majority died before the vaccine, many died as in the case of Canada by panicked staff leaving their jobs in elderly care home and government failure to take proper charge of things, the same in the UK France, Italy, etc... The USA was ignorance and the inequality and failure of their medical system!

If we went with the attitude you are using then Europe would never have come out of the dark ages or the middle ages the locked up Castle mentality of the plague would have continued and nothing would have gotten done!

We know what we're dealing with now we know how to deal with it and lockdowns or SOE no longer make much sense or any difference we're going to have waves and the best way to protect from that are vaccines and masks and a little common sense but no lockdowns and no SOE anymore.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

virusrexToday  02:21 pm JST

With all due respect, please stick with your science and those facts, I and many here will back you up.

But it is quite clear you have been a long long time in research and academia and do not know the reality of retail business, tourism, travel, bars or restaurants.

Everything you wrote was the same false ideas those that created the Canadian government policies.

And now what is left are large number of people out of work, businesses closed permanently and the government wondering what to do and how to get all those now on covid job loss payments off them and back to work without jobs and with few willing to risk leaving the safety of the guaranteed monthly covid payments by taking a job they don't know will last past the next panic induced restaurant bar closure and again finding themselves trying to apply for covid aid again.

This has been the insane circle that has been going on now.

As a scientist.

Do you boil water at see level 50 time hoping it will boil at a different temperature?

The present covid policies are just that boiling water over and over again hoping it will suddenly boil at 50°C and not 100°C

1 ( +3 / -2 )

meaning of not listening to the experts and prioritize your own benefits

This is not my own benefit, this from your experts:

Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu

If I listen to this, and I handle it like a seasonal flu, then I throw away my mask, and I don't care about any prevention anymore.

(Except that I take my yearly flu vaccine. And that is my personal decision)

it means accepting a certain amount of restrain is necessary to keep the risk controlled

Exactly!

And that is exactly what people are doing: certain amount of restrain.

Like wearing masks, taking the vaccines, got tested if necessary, if they got sick stay at home until recover,....and so on.

But how to determine certain amount:

A society must run!

Therefore, which kind of restrains you do is also depend on your private and on the society situation.

Let me go back to the Izakayas and Bars.

People say, to go to Izakaya or Bar is not necessary. Especially during a pandemic.

Yes for me personally, it is not necessary to go to an Izakaya.

But:

Let me explain how I see the things.

Nobody is forcing me or you or anybody to go to work. Everyone is free to quit their job at anytime.

But if you quit your job, means what?

You have no income and you can not bring food on the table for yourself and for your family.

So back to the Izakaya:

If me and all other people, so nobody, goes to Izakaya, what will happen?

The Izakaya must close. The staff must be fired.

That means the owner of the Izakaya and the staff have no income and can not put food on the table for themselves and their families.

So if someone quits his job, or if someone loses his job or business, the impact is the same: No income and no food on the table.

So it is important that the society keeps running.

And under the current and future (probably forever) Corona situation, the only way a society keeps running is to accept that you can infect others and that you can get infected by yourself from others.

It sounds harsh, but that is the reality.

But yes, you are right, some restrains are necessary to keep the risk low, but these restraints should be chosen by each person himself, according his personal life situation, and should not be listen blindly to the experts, because the experts, have no idea about your personal life and how you and your family and people around you will be effected from that restrains.

And additional,

Always people here are saying, we must think more for the society and should not be selfish.

Yes, than think about the society and support Izakayas, small businesses... and so on..., that they do not go into bancruptcy, and the owner and his family and the staff and their familiies has no idea how to bring food on the table.

After two and half years into a pandemic, people have to understand, that zero Covid strategy is nonsense, a lockdown didn't bring any big impact, (it just damages buisness and jobs), the vaccine is not the silver bullet,....but we all have to go on with our lives.

And each person, I said that already before many times, is responsible for his or her own life and should do his best that the society keeps running.

The experts...they can give recommendations...but if people follow them or not, is everyone's own decision.

But in this case here: “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu,..I will follow this until a certain point.

I choose by myself how far I follow this. And that is what people also should do.

Or are you following this blindly?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Since the seat belts were invented the number of victims of traffic accidents have only gone up.

Well the thing is cars are way more powerful than they were back at the time of seatbelt invention, car ownership became more common and we have heaps of years to compare data and what not. Similar parameters can't be applied to the rona vaxx.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The experts contradicts themselves many times and even among them you hear different opinions.

You have repeatedly said this, only to fell silent when asked to prove it.

?????

Does this two opinions from the scientists mean like same opinions to you???

Some scientists argue it’s the right time to accept that “living with COVID” means tolerating a certain level of disruption and deaths, much like we do for seasonal flu. Others believe that Britain’s government lifted restrictions too quickly and too soon.

Come on,...even for you...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Never argue with an expert.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And what about the new XE variant of Omicron ?

What's up with that ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tokyo sees week-on-week rise in COVID cases for 4th straight day

Good to see that the vaccines, masking up and plastic barriers are working.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Did you recognize how many Restaurants went into bancruptcy over the last 2 years.

Can you imagine how they struggle now to put food on the table without any income?

Ah...no you can not, because you are not involved personally.

As long as someone is not involved personally by losing his or her complete existence, things are easy to say.

I don't own a restaurant, but I thought I had enough diversity in my business to survive most things.

First went my consulting job because I set up Japanese companies going to exhibit in international trade shows.

Covid = no international travel or trade shows so "force majeure" clause contracts terminated.

Next was my international sales via the internet.

Covid = Erratic postal regulations, unreliable delivery time, countries open one day then closed the next for international shipping!

Next came the SOE and the end of most of my main clientele and their businesses (largely involved in the traditional Japanese tea ceremony business)

Covid= no more tea ceremonies, no more teaching tea ceremony, no more preforming tea ceremony.

A one two three punch.

I was holding on by the skin of my teeth, I am convinced the stress contributed to my heart attack last November.

Oh and to add to that my adult children's employers closed there retail and live performance down leading to one losing his job the other reduced to part time both just graduated from university April 2020.

Unless the government or those claiming they aren't having problems or wanting more SOE are willing to start paying our bills we need to learn to live with covid, get your vaccines boosters and all wear masks when in close contact and let's try rebuilding.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Antiquesaving

But now you are the one speculating about things you do not know about!

Please learn about the real world and not just scientific hypotheses

Well said!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

> AntiquesavingToday  12:54 pm JST

NZ population 5 million

Australia 25 million

UK 67 million

Japan 126 million.

See any difference?

I wonder which of these places has the least contact with the outside world?

Which can be closest to self sufficient?

Let's be real, lockdown in NZ is like locking down a few wards in Tokyo and making sure a tiny 5 million get their needs met.

Now try that with tens of millions of people!

Um, how does the size of the population affect the spread of a virus?! The density of a population I can understand and you would have a point there that Japan has a higher density of population than NZ, but the actual number!?

I'd say Japan has the least contact with the outside world, what's your point?

Self-sufficient? NZ and Aussie - the point being?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I am still waiting for a vaccine that actually prevents infection and transmission, otherwise, why put yourself at risk in this trial.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

All these happening with the borders closed.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Tokyo sees week-on-week rise in COVID cases for 4th straight day

Okinawa has had 19 days in a row "week on week" rising. With about 1% of the population of Tokyo.

But who cares? Besides the folks getting sick down here!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan never had a lockdown and that's why they have a far greater number of COVID cases and deaths than NZ and AU who did have lockdowns (and high vaccination rates in NZ case).

Nope Japan had more death and more cases because it has more people and is far more densely populated.

Australia: 25 covid death per 100,000

Japan: 22.7 covid death per 100,000 and that was with a far far far higher at risk elderly population in Japan.

As for vaccination rates Japan NZ are even at 81% Australia 83% .

Come on at least try and look things up!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Um, how does the size of the population affect the spread of a virus?! The density of a population I can understand and you would have a point there that Japan has a higher density of population than NZ, but the actual number!?

Ok NZ 18 per Km2

UK 281 per Km2

Japan 340 per Km2 

So you are right, density is also a factor.

There are no people in NZ near each other to spread covid.

Even without lockdown, it doesn't seem it would be any different seeing they all have a lot of space to keep clear of eachother.

I'd say Japan has the least contact with the outside world, what's your point?

2019 Visitors to NZ 3.8 million

2019 visitors to Japan 31.9 million

Just to give an idea of how few visit NZ in 2019 the city of Montreal got 11 million visitors from outside.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@virusrex

Keep up the good work.

As usual, a cut above.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

letsberealisticToday  11:00 am JST

AntiquesavingToday  10:31 am JST

Just to make things clear.

At this point in the "pandemic" we know lockdowns don't really work at best they give a sense of safety while causing huge disruption in normal human behaviour and development especially in children.

Let's stop the misinformation right there. A simple Google search will reveal a myriad of research data and other evidence that lockdowns have a very clear impact at reducing the spread of COVID (or any virus). Yes, it has worked better in some countries than others (e.g. NZ vs Australia). However, to willfully deny that lockdowns are ineffective at slowing and preventing the spread of a virus either means you can't or won't read, or you are distrustful of science, private institutions and government (I suspect the latter).

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Tokyo reported...Who are you referring to?

Some infectious disease experts...What are their names?
-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Because Australia, New Zealand, and China all used this strategy and as a result had the lowest rates of infections and related deaths in the world.

Australia and NZ always 2 places far far far way from anyone or anything.

China could tell me the sky is blue and I wouldn't believe them without an independent second source.

Japan has done extremely well as have many others without resorting the NZ draconian measure.

And why even bring up NZ or Australia. To places that have fewer visitors than Japan or even the city on Montreal.

NZ had 3.8 million Australia had 9 million visitors to their countries in 2019 Japan had 32.8 million and Montreal had 11 million.

Then we look at the population neither Australia or NZ have a population density to even spread the disease quickly like Japan, Europe etc..

Honestly every time this subject comes up NZ and Australia are the only thing some can point to, 2 places so far out of the main travel and international contact world most forget they are there.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

AntiquesavingToday  03:26 pm JST

Because Australia, New Zealand, and China all used this strategy and as a result had the lowest rates of infections and related deaths in the world.

Australia and NZ always 2 places far far far way from anyone or anything.

China could tell me the sky is blue and I wouldn't believe them without an independent second source.

Japan has done extremely well as have many others without resorting the NZ draconian measure.

And why even bring up NZ or Australia. To places that have fewer visitors than Japan or even the city on Montreal.

NZ had 3.8 million Australia had 9 million visitors to their countries in 2019 Japan had 32.8 million and Montreal had 11 million.

Then we look at the population neither Australia or NZ have a population density to even spread the disease quickly like Japan, Europe etc..

Honestly every time this subject comes up NZ and Australia are the only thing some can point to, 2 places so far out of the main travel and international contact world most forget they are there.

Japan never had a lockdown and that's why they have a far greater number of COVID cases and deaths than NZ and AU who did have lockdowns (and high vaccination rates in NZ case).

Japan has had closed borders for months but still has greater COVID numbers than NZ and AU so how can you claim visitor numbers have any consequence?!

Japan failed it's people by not having any lockdowns. Many people are dying as a result.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

letsberealisticToday  03:42 pm JST

Japan never had a lockdown and that's why they have a far greater number of COVID cases and deaths than NZ and AU who did have lockdowns (and high vaccination rates in NZ case).

Exactly. Amazing people here want to argue with facts.

virusrexToday  03:37 pm JST

Lots of people out of work or with failed business is part of the negative consequences of the pandemic. Goverments had to choose between having lots of people dead and lots of people without a job or having huge lots of people dead and some people without a job. Simply saying there was no sure way to have only few people dead and few people out of jobs, no matter how much you wish for this to be true.

This does not make sense, and is definitely not based on science, unless you have a source to supply?

Of course not.

AntiquesavingToday  03:26 pm JST

Then we look at the population neither Australia or NZ have a population density to even spread the disease quickly like Japan, Europe etc..

This is true,

But, when NZ moved away from its zero covid policy, its number of infections of the previous two years were matched in about one month.

So, statistically, the zero covid policy has the best success at limiting infections.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

All prep for a Golden Week soe announcement. Mark my words

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

NZ had a peak of a few weeks and is now trending down, though we are expecting a rise again in the winter.

We have never had the numbers (proportionally) Japan has had though due to much higher 3rd dose and child dose vaccinations.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

NotSo HungOverToday  11:16 am JST

Seems more and more people walking around without FaceMasks within crowded enclosed areas these days.... wonder if they've forgotten about the Pandemic or simply placing their trust in jabs alone

Please let us know where you go.

My job these days means I am out daily making pickups and deliveries.

Strange I don't see all these no masked people.

Presently I am near Ueno station waiting to pick up something.

Even outside walking on the open air street I don't see a single person without a mask on .

Last night out for our walk we saw a blonde female foreigner get kicked out for My Basket, Lawson's and 7-11 for refusing to wear a mask.

So I would be very interested in knowing these places you claim to have been and seen.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Safety precautions in English

https://corona.go.jp/en/

Vaccination web site,

https://v-sys.mhlw.go.jp/en/

日本語

https://corona.go.jp/

https://v-sys.mhlw.go.jp/

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

painkillerToday  04:04 pm JST

letsberealisticToday  03:42 pm JST

Japan never had a lockdown and that's why they have a far greater number of COVID cases and deaths than NZ and AU who did have lockdowns (and high vaccination rates in NZ case).

Exactly. Amazing people here want to argue with facts.

Yes because it is not a fact unless you ignore the actual facts.

NZ as a country (268,000 km²) has fewer people that Osaka (223 km²) take a guess which place will have more infections lockdown or not?

As I previously pointed out Australia 25 deaths per 100,000 Japan 22.7 deaths per 100,000 and do I need to point out again the population size and density?

Melbourne population density 500 per km² (this is the most densely populated city in Australia)

Osaka population density 5,000 per km²

Tokyo population density 6,000 per km².

So again which place did better?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

AgentXToday  09:55 am JST

This is just trench warfare now.

At the end of the day, you'll just have to live and let live (stay out of other people's business) and do what's best for you...

Explain how that works "stay out of other people's business) "?

I had a serious heart attack in November (no for the 1 millionth time before someone as usual suggests it not related to the vaccine hereditary heart defect).

So since then I have had a hard time breathing normally as my heart tries keeping up with just daily physical activities, with a mask on it is just that little bit more difficult and uncomfortable.

But I wear one in public places because I respect others and their rights.

But I regularly see people go into stores no mask and are asked to put one on or leave and they go nuts with the standard " my rights" my body" etc...as if their feelings and rights trump those of all the workers and other clients.

No one is going into people's homes and telling them to wears masks or be vaccinated in their own house.

But when people are out and they enter a public location or private business and are told no mask no entry that is the right of the owner or public safety regulations of the public facility,

Why is it so difficult for some to just do a simple thing like put on a mask for the 5 minutes they will be in the convenience store instead of making a fuss for 20 minutes is beyond logic.

But I just saw that exact scenario last night with some blonde foreigners refusing to put on a mask even when offered a free mask at the local "Aeon my basket" she then was told to leave, she spoke very good Japanese, she then left tried the Lawson's got the same result until getting very angry at 7-11 and the police were called.

I had enough at that point of watching this vaudevillian comedy and my wife and I continued on with our nightly walk.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Tokyo reported 8,026 new COVID-19 cases Sunday, seeing a week-on-week increase for the fourth consecutive day as health experts have warned of another wave of infections.

A zero covid policy is the scientific proven best approach to keep infections and covid related deaths to the minimum.

AntiquesavingToday  02:34 pm JST

But it is quite clear you have been a long long time in research and academia

No, he hasn't,

virusrexToday  02:21 pm JST

I have never argumented that closures are an inevitable part of fighting against the pandemic,

Yes, you have,

Which is why extremes like the "zero covid" policies are widely recognized as counterproductive and impossible to be achieved with the current variants.

Where is your source to support this statement? Because Australia, New Zealand, and China all used this strategy and as a result had the lowest rates of infections and related deaths in the world.

Not based on opinion, but based on facts and statistics.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

No, he hasn't,

Trying to badly guess things from other people is not an argument, specially if you do that because you have been repeatedly demonstrated as wrong and refuse to accept it.

A zero covid policy is the scientific proven best approach to keep infections and covid related deaths to the minimum.

According to how you have falied to bring even one reference for this to be applicable in 2022, that means it is not.

Honestly every time this subject comes up NZ and Australia are the only thing some can point to, 2 places so far out of the main travel and international contact world most forget they are there.

Hong Kong and Shanghai come also as well frequently, even if you want to ignore them as perfect examples of how the zero covid policy can fail spectacularly with the variants.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

letsberealisticToday  11:01 am JST

New Zealand!

The only and I mean only place any lockdown advocate points out as a "success".

2 tiny islands in the middle of nowhere, no land neighbours, I population smaller than Osaka, that ended up cutting itself off from the entire planet now there is a practical plan for the rest of the world!

Today with vaccines better understanding of the virus and treatment, locking yourself in a room and hiding from the world won't change a thing, because as we now clearly see, once you decide to leave your room it starts all over again.

You know the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results;

We did the SOE other countries did the lockdowns even NZ and as soon as they end the virus spreads again and the SOE/lockdown circle starts all over again.

Before the vaccine I would have agreed lockdowns were the best way of contacting the situation but now they are just another example of a futile attempt to reach an unattainable goal at this time.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

NZ population 5 million

Australia 25 million

UK 67 million

Japan 126 million.

See any difference?

I wonder which of these places has the least contact with the outside world?

Which can be closest to self sufficient?

Let's be real, lockdown in NZ is like locking down a few wards in Tokyo and making sure a tiny 5 million get their needs met.

Now try that with tens of millions of people!

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Perhaps another lockdown, jab or triple masking might do it!

-8 ( +11 / -19 )

Up 127 cases within one week in a city of 14.000.000 people?

And that should bring people into panic?

No, that is all your own conclusion, in reality it should bring people to be careful and to expect further increases which also means higher risk. Panic is just an exaggeration of people that refuse to understand that what is being called for is rational precaution.

There were probably more heart attacks than Covid cases.

And you think we are in the middle of life changing measures in general to prevent heart attacks? or that they are transmissible so trend upwards can suddenly become much more steep? because those are huge differences.

The whole world knows already that even more and more people get vaccinated, the virus does not stop to spread. Which you can see by daily increasing numbers in countries with even a high vaccination rate.

Which is why other measures are being also recommended to slow down the spreading and prevent deaths, which of course it does not change the fact that the vaccine prevents some of those infections, it also makes it less likely that infected people transmit the disease, and obviously that infected people develop the disease, complications or die from it.

Me for myself, I am 3x vaccinated and wearing mask, but I resume to visit my friends, go to Izakayas and Bars...and so on.

Which goes completely on you, for good and for bad, everybody acts according to their own set of values. So if people do not want to feel responsible if a friend or family gets infected thanks to them visiting then there is nothing to criticize about it.

I think now it is clear, that even you are vaccinated, you can get infected and spread it.

But still if you get vaccinated your risk of getting infected and spread it are lower, which is why scientific and medical experts recommend vaccination as part of the measures to slow down transmission.

-8 ( +15 / -23 )

I'm tired of people pushing their: it's just like a cold, it's not serious, etc etc. If this is the case why do they keep reading these articles? I think sport is a waste of time and never reader sports stories so never comment on them either.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

government officials struggling to raise the rate of booster shots as it is especially low among younger people.

The total disconnect between government officials and reality is so evident in the above,

I have 2 children in their mid 20s only the eldest has her booster because she was also the first in my family to get her first 2 because she was work for a large private company offering all employees vaccine she was vaccinated before I was.

Other than that her friends, her younger brother all his friends, etc .. most haven't even received their vouchers yet because they only got their second vaccine less than 6 months ago.

My wife and I got ours last month as soon as we could book an appointment after getting our vouchers we are no where near in our 20s.

There is now no way of accelerating booster shots without shortening the 6 to 7 months period Between the second shot and the third.

Many municipalities were so slow with the first shot delaying the second shot this is greatly delayed the third shot.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Just to make things clear.

At this point in the "pandemic" we know lockdowns don't really work at best they give a sense of safety while causing huge disruption in normal human behaviour and development especially in children.

We are seeing children born during the pandemic that have no idea about any human contact outside their direct family living in the same house.

My neice is in her second year of university 3 until January this year had never met in person a single other student in her department;

The same goes for the Japanese SOE, even more useless than lockdowns.

At this point if people act like adults, get vaccinated, wear their masks in public, and we go about our lives, yes we will have ups and downs (waves) but we can no longer keep up the on again off again SOE/lockdowns.

Eventually we will become more resistant to the different variants and get back to no masks but we still need them for the moment but lest at least get back to as close as possible to living as we did before.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

But it's come to a point where the absence of seeing facial expressions, a basic form of human interaction - has more of a negative affect on my overall health than the perceived threat COVID. I want to see people smile again!

I guess you missed the past decade and more.

Human interaction? I am a artisan craftsman, I mostly repair other people's broken antiques, before the pandemic, I would maybe meet clients in person once then 99% of the rest of our communication would be on the phone or email.

My wife's job before the pandemic was 90% phone and emails, same for my 2 adult children,

I am old I like to go out shopping in real stores, I am a rarity.

Most people I know, my children, my wife it is mostly done online and this for 10 years or more ( guess why Amazon is so big).

I get it, since my heart attack I hate my mask but come on don't go reading too much into things.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Everything you wrote was the same false ideas those that created the Canadian government policies..

What false ideas? that people crowding places lead to spreading of infection? that is not false, it has been proved above any reasonable doubt.

There is no magic wand that can make everything well for everybody. It is terrible but some business rely exactly on the kind of environment that is more risky. So they will be affected the most when measures are made to limit that risk. You may not like it, but that does not make it false. For that you need evidence.

Lots of people out of work or with failed business is part of the negative consequences of the pandemic. Goverments had to choose between having lots of people dead and lots of people without a job or having huge lots of people dead and some people without a job. Simply saying there was no sure way to have only few people dead and few people out of jobs, no matter how much you wish for this to be true.

Now it is very different, with vaccinations and less dangerous variants, but still there is an important risk that needs to be balanced with a healthy economy.

The present covid policies are just that boiling water over and over again hoping it will suddenly boil at 50°C and not 100°C

The present covid policies are like trying to boil water in a plastic bottle that melts at 80 degrees, and at the beginning of the pandemic the only bottles you had melted at 50, no matter how much you want to go to 100 degrees. Some governments did better at it, but no goverment in the world could have have prevented completely economic damage and lots of unnecessary deaths at the same time. You are equalizing having measures that hurt the economy and making bad decisions that hurt the economy without improving the siuation with the pandemic, they are not the same. Those countries that followed scientific advice did much better, those that choose to ignore the pandemic so they could avoid the price of the measures not so much (and their economies are not that good right now either).

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

DukeletoToday  09:52 am JST

You conveniently left out the part that would undue your "logic".

that gives a 0.4% chance of dying from covid. If you accept that there are far more people infected than confirmed cases the 0.4% death rate reduces drastically. At a confirmed 0.4% confirmed death rate I am rather unconcerned. 

Now if you add in death occuring at home due to the government policy of restricting access to testing and hospitalization, the policy of no autopsies, etc...

Using the same speculative you used to come to your conclusion the number of deaths is probably much higher than the official stats.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

This is not my own benefit, this from your experts:

Your quote do not mean that this can be achieved by living life at normal, on the opposite, it still means refraining from certain risky activities so the cases and deaths are kept under low levels. As long as you are following the recommendation of experts you are doing your best at not exposing other people to extra risks, but the moment you do something against those recommendation (that still assume some deaths with happen) then you are prioritizing your own benefit over the risk you bring to others.

But how to determine certain amount:

By listening to the experts, that do risk determination for a living and understand much better how epidemics evolve. Using your own biased criteria is not the answer.

Nobody is forcing me or you or anybody to go to work. Everyone is free to quit their job at anytime.

Exaggerating only makes evident you have no argument. There is a huge difference between starving to death to avoid exposing others to extra risk and not going out to dinner with your friends for the same reason. Pretending those two situations are the same is obviously invalid. Nobody reasonable would think that not dining in a crowded pub is equal to death. That is why "quit your job" is not ever on the recommendations from experts.

But yes, you are right, some restrains are necessary to keep the risk low, but these restraints should be chosen by each person himself, according his personal life situation

If the "personal situation" means "I want to do this more than I want to prevent extra risk for others" you are not justifying this decision, you are just explaining the obvious situation that people can be centered in their own needs because it is not illegal to do it.

Absolutely nobody is talking about zero covid strategy (only you) what is being argued is to keep reasonable and valid measures so the risks for others is minimized to background levels.

Or not, and do as you like, since apparently your point is that people should be free to disregard the well being of others for personal convenience if they personally feel that way.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Everywhere I go I can get infected by other people.

Which is the least important thing, because you are fine with it, else you would not be outside. You are responsible of your own risk, and obviously would feel better if other people did not do anything to increase your risk, this is what everybody feels.

What you are doing is, you give the blame to the people to infect other people.

It is not blame, it is making sure you understand the meaning of not listening to the experts and prioritize your own benefits above the extra risk you inflic on others. You have not argued against this.

Just a few days ago, my coworker who sits in front of me was tested positive.

So should I blame him for that? Of course not!

Did he do something against the recommendations of the experts? that is what would be worth criticizing. It is not the same if someone does the best he can do realistically, be vaccinated, use masks continously, do not go to crowded places to have fun, etc. His infection was unavoidable even if he did what he could. But if he is not using masks, goes out frequently to crowded pubs where he talks loudy with other people that behave like him, etc. then that extra risk was not just for him but also for anybody else he is in contact with.

People have no other choice than to accept that, because you are nowhere safe.

Living with COVID do not mean living like COVID have no importance, it means accepting a certain amount of restrain is necessary to keep the risk controlled, at least until the risk goes down to background levels.

There is no need to refrain from having social contact, that is not what the experts recommend, but doing it responsibly even if you would like a different way.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

People on here are strange.

Point out that a very large portion of those in their 20s are still not eligible for their booster shot because of the need to be 6 to 7 months after their second shot.

Point out that those in their 20s or the last ones to get vaccinated sometime last fall.

And everybody down votes, it's just a fact folks live with it!

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

 People wearing masks everyday takes away from humanity, and the facial expressions and indeed, the smile. I do not even need to mention any scientific study.

You would need to, if your point is that this have any meaningful negative effect comparable with the well known increase of transmission of COVID without the masks. Without a scientific study you can't prove the benefits of using masks do not greatly outweigh the costs.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

How do you think will a restaurant owner survive without guests?

You mean when all his guest die or are isolated because of the infection? this is not a dichotomy, people CAN responsibly use restaurants (or delivery, take out) and restaurant owners can change their business or get subsidies to survive. It is not like acting responsibly means all restaurants will close. That is all product of your imagination.

Who of the experts is saying not to go to any restaurant ever until the pandemic is over? you can consult the recommendations done by the experts at any time so you can actually see this is not the case. People can act responsibly and support any business they like, the problem is that some people prefer to have a lot of fun above acting responsibly. So they pretend the scientists and experts are all wrong or that everybody is pushing for a zero covid policy when that is absolutely not the case. Just excuses.

Did you recognize how many Restaurants went into bancruptcy over the last 2 years.

Do you recognize how many people have died from COVID in the last 2 years? pretending nothing is happening and restaurants are being affected while everybody is safe makes no sense. People get sick and die, and every single kind of business is affected, so if you want to justify more deaths just to restaurants can do better you really need to examine your moral standards.

And...one more point...everyone who goes to an Izakaya understand and accept that their is a risk to get imposed and infected by other guests. Me too!

And the problems is that you are perfectly fine with imposing that risk to others for your personal convenience. The extra problem is that for infectious diseases the risk do not stop in the people exposed originally but that risk is transmitted to their families and everybody else that enters in contact with them. You being fine with this do not mean all those people are fine with it either.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Since the start of the pandemic, we have seen many of the top experts of epidemiology, infectious diseases, and medicine being attacked and silenced for saying something that big pharma did not like.

Like what? that dexamethasone is very effective at preventing complications and deaths on patients affected by COVID even when it is a thousand times cheaper than other steroids? so what, it is still being used commonly and there has been no problem recognizing its value. This conspiracy theory is just nonsense.

Obviously, one will have a distorted view of the pandemic if they only listen to pharma-connected "experts", while ignoring those real top experts that do not have conflicts of interest

The problem is that you want to consider the whole of the scientific consensus (as in every single one of the institutions of science and medicine in every country of the whole world) as "pharma-connected" and all included in a global conspiracy to poison their own family members and friends, this obviously is unbelievable.

Specially when the experts that you have promoted as reliable are also full of conflicts of interest and have been even found guilty of scientific malpractice, fraud, etc. Things that apparently you have no problem with, as long as they say what you want to hear. This is called having a double standard and is a clear sign of people that are not interested in truthful productive discussion, only in pushing their own personal beliefs unto others.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Please tell us what "subsidies" are you claiming exist? If the ¥1 million I got for 2020 ( finally recieved in January 2021 because of bureaucracy) is what you mean, good luck living on that!

Subsidies are not the only kind of thing restaurant owners can use, it is only one of the many examples that are there, the pandemic has been extremely though on many kinds of industries, but the answer is not just to ignore the dangers of widespread infection because the business you like will have a though time. Airlines, travel companies, hotels, etc. etc. have also lost a lot of money and many have been forced to close permanently because of the pandemic. Restaurants at least have a small margin of leniency with responsible ways to do their business, even if that still means sacrifices need to be done.

If a government fails to support those business then that is the problem, not limiting their capacity or working hours.

I have never argumented that closures are an inevitable part of fighting against the pandemic, just that irresponsible use (which is the most profitable) is still unjustified, even if that benefit those business the best. Government support and responsible use according to the recommendations based on the best available science is the middle ground where peple can make still a living without increasing the risk for the whole population. A gradual opening according to the current level of risk is completely inside of this considerations. The recommendations reflect how much risk can be tolerated and how much need there is for the economy to be supported. Which is why extremes like the "zero covid" policies are widely recognized as counterproductive and impossible to be achieved with the current variants.

If you read my comments in this topic not even once I have said lockdowns are necessary, it is all about responsible use and following the scientific based advice of the experts (which is not always the same as the politically based advice from the authorities).

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Of course! Heart attacks are also well studied and many measures to prevent heart attacks are well known and implemented by people into their own lives.

Life style changing measures like the ones in place for COVID? that is not true, the whole point is that the situation for COVID is not the worst that could be happening but only as bad as it can get when people are being masked all day long, refrain from risky activities and being vaccinated or boosted as necessary. These are not measures that can continue forever but as strict as they are they are unable to stop daily deaths from COVID. In comparison the same is not being seen for heart attacks, no extraordinary measures are in place for it, so the current situation is not likely to become worse by people going back to their normal lives.

That is the point. is like saying a slap on the face is the same as brick to the head (while using a helmet), they are not the same.

Therefore I said, that I know I can probably get infected and can probably die from the virus, but I accept that.

That has less importance than the other thing that can be the result of your activities, you also have to accept that you can be the cause of other people being infected and in the worst case dying. Some people think enjoying an activity is not a justification to increase this risk.

Maybe some people can live prioritizing the health of their friends of family above social contact or any social activity, you are just saying you are not part of those people.

Because of this people that are responsible and considerate listen to what the experts say is an unjustified risk, even if it is not illegal to do it. Other people simply give more importance to live as they like and are willing to accept they become an extra risk for anybody they come in contact justified on their convenience.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

 completely disagree!

The experts contradicts themselves many times and even among them you hear different opinions.

You have repeatedly said this, only to fell silent when asked to prove it. This means you want to believe the experts are wrong all the time, even when you end up finding no evidence of this being the case.

Do you know who is wrong much more frequently than the experts? people that ignore something and just go with their feelings.

Best example is today's JT article about UK:

This is a perfect example. This is not a contradiction, this is the natural process where a pandemic gradually becomes less risky and measures intended to decrease that risk become less and less necessary, this has been said from the very beginning (nobody ever said lockdowns or universal mask use was supposed to be a permanent thing).

What the experts disagree (which is not the same as a contradiction) is that in one specific example the timing is right for a set of measures to be abandoned or not.

Do you agree with the below?

Yes or No as an answer please.

Yes, some scientists do, and they now need to prove it with validated data.

Also, you understand that asking for "yes or not answers" is a well known loaded question that evidence when someone knows a more complete answer would prove them mistaken. For example, can you answer with a "yes" or "no" only the following question?

have you stopped exposing others people on purpose to the SARS-CoV-2 infection?

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Does this two opinions from the scientists mean like same opinions to you???

How does that deny the fact that you have repeatedly used this argument when there is no significant disagreeing, from the value of vaccines to the usefulness of masks you routinely say scientists contradict themselves and when asked for proof you only vaguely say you "heard it in the TV" without ever providing any reference of scientists actually contradicting themselves.

Yes, not every single detail has been already decided in science, but that does not mean everything is, most things concerning the pandemic have a consensus, even if you want to ignore it because you find it inconvenient.

You know that this agreement from you, contradicts completely everything what you said above.

No, it does not, because this very specific disagreement do not apply to you, because you are not living in UK, in Japan there is no such discussion and most of the measures are being recommended as necessary until evidence appears that they are no longer necessary. This is precisely the kind of invalid argument you keep using. Pretending anything that is in the process of being studied means nothing is understood and your personal beliefs are therefore more likely to be correct. Sorry they are not.

ause if we follow Covid like a seasonal flu, then everyone can go to Izakayas and walk around without masks,...and so on.

We are not at this point, at least not in Japan (nor in any of the other countries where cases and deaths happen daily even with the measures in place, completely the opposite of what happens with influenza).

So you want to justify acting according to your personal benefit even if the experts recommends otherwise, you are free to do it, but that does not change the fact that being considerate to the risk you mean for others would lead to other courses of action, which you are choosing to ignore.

It is also telling you choose not to answer the "yes or not" question, does this means you have not stopped? interesting.

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Well the thing is cars are way more powerful than they were back at the time of seatbelt invention, car ownership became more common and we have heaps of years to compare data and what not. Similar parameters can't be applied to the rona vaxx.

Well the thing is that the variants are way more powerfull than the ones prevalent at the time the vaccines were developed. More people became exposed and we have mountains of data that prove the variants are the reason for the increase, that can't be applied to seat belts.

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How about going to work, how about sitting in the full packed office?

What are the recommendations of the experts about it? quit your job? obviously not. Again, you are trying to say going to a packed izakaya is as serious business to you as starving to death, which is obviously not the case.

All of these things are for my personal convenience.

The problem is when you willingly ignore the recommendations of the expert for your convenience, not when you follow them. Only following the recommendations when they do not inferfere with what you want to do is what is not justified. Every example you make can be done responsibly without problems by following the experts recommendations. That means ignoring their advice is still an extra risk you are choosing to impose on others, for your convenience.

So did you give up all these things?

Of course not, because they can be done responsibly, and completely in line with the recommendations of the experts.

Are you saying that everyone who are going to work every day by train, sits in full packed offices to feed their families to give them a convinient life, going to travel alone or with tgeir families, going to supermarkets to buy delicious food and drinks, if they are getting sick and go to hospital and doctors to recover very soon, and so on...everyone should feel guilty because they can probably spread the virus during doing that?

No, that is your fallacy, an invalid equivalence as an excuse to say you are justifed when doing what you want. In reality all those things can be done while minimizing the risk for yourself and others acting responsibly and completely inside of what is scientifically recommended. Going to a packed izakaya to raise your voice for a couple of hours with a dozen of friends is not. So that is the irresponsible thing.

But trains and offices are not a problem for the experts, but the Restaurants are

Trains have not been correlated to clusters, which may have to do with the fact that masks are used almost universally and loud talking, drinking and eating inside of them is a rare exception.

Offices are included in the recommendations and many different rules are in place in order to work responsibly in them, from ventilation to rotation of the time to take the meals.

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27 months and going ..: 28000 reported deaths from Covid. 9000 of those this year alone . Deny it all you want , Omicron is the deadliest variant of Covid in Japan to date. And that’s with 80% of the population vaccinated. Imagine just how bad it’d be without the vast majority of responsibly thinking and acting people. Hopefully, the jgov has finally realized that all these toothless SOE’S are just that . No bite . All this whining about restrictions when the simple truth is that we’ve enjoyed way too much freedom. Quasi this quasi that isn’t working . No matter how much “urging” the jgov does , there is still the minority of anti everything as related to Covid. Masks are not a new or Covid related trend in Japan. Not for nationals anyway. Y’all wonder why the borders have been so tight ? It’s not the xenophobia some claim …. It’s the highly irresponsible behaviors of mostly resident foreigners that gives the jgov legitimate reasons to keep the border controls in place . Keep in mind that every country has had some form of border controls. Tourism? That industry and those that also depend on tourism have been and continue to be propped up by either corporate welfare or Covid related unemployment or underemployment insurance. It’s becoming abundantly clear that it’s time for some serious restrictions. No need for new laws . Article 25 can be used to force people to change their dangerous and selfish behaviors. Those that don’t like rules ….This isn’t some flu. That’s another disease. Not a heart attack or cancer either . But for Covid, 28000 people wouldn’t be dead. Lastly, we can’t learn to live with Covid, or get on , open up, lift non existent restrictions until people stop dying from it . Start caring about others …. Is it that hard ?

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