Search continues for missing fighter jet crew in Sea of Japan

Japan has been wasting billions of dollars purchasing defective US-made weapons.

They're made in Japan by Mitsubishi HI under licence. They've also been flying them for the past 40 years, certainly getting their money's worth.

Japan has been wasting billions of dollars purchasing defective US-made weapons.

JASDF F-15s were made in Japan by Japanese workers and with Japanese materials by Mitsubishi.

I hope they rescue the crew members soon.

thetoleratedoneToday  06:46 pm JST

@Meyowenti. Maybe you could purchase Chinese copies if you apologise for your WW2 attrocities. Hehehehe

Two men have most likely died. You should take your comment and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Flying high performance aircraft can be a dangerous occupation. Some of the most experienced and exemplary pilots have been lost.

Military spending is like insurance.

Nobody likes to buy it, but it is best to have it and never need it than not to have it and have bad things happen.

There will always be people who want to spend ¥0. They live in a fantasy world.

There will always be people who want to spend 50% less and

there will always be people who want to spend 10% more than current.

I think the current military budget is 1.3% of GDP in Japan. That seems small to me. The US spends far too much at 3.7% of GDP..

Saudi Arabia, Israel and Russia all spend more as a ratio of their GDP. China spends 1.7%. In real $$$, the US is #1, China is #2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures using 2022 numbers.

Although it doesn't sound promising, I hope the crew are found alive.

A few years ago I went to the museum next to Komatsu airport, and had a go on the old YS-11 simulator. The volunteer instructor there was a retired JASDF F-15 pilot, great guy. Hope he didn't lose any friends in this accident.

Makes it sound like going almost 3 years without an accident is a major accomplishment.

Honestly, these jets are costing countries around the world billions of dollars. Every few years a "new generation" of fighter planes is developed and countries are forced to update and buy the latest tech. There should be some kind of global ban on these aircraft. I know, people will say they are necessary, but its such a huge waste of money.

For an air force as large as the JASDF flying a lot of hours every year to go three years without a mishap is very much a major accomplishment.

New combat jets only come along every two or three decades. Look how long the F-15 and F-16 have been around, over 40 years, and new examples of both types are still in production. The F-22 was not produced in the numbers originally envisioned because the cost per flight hour turned out to be prohibitive. It entered service way back in 1996, about 20 years after the first F-15s entered service. The F-22s eventual replacement called NGAD for now is in testing. The F-35 was supposed to be the F-16s successor but it is so expensive to fly there is talk of buying new F-16s for air defense of North America where stealth isn't necessary. Likewise there was a good two decades between the introduction of the Tornado and its successor the Typhoon.

Lets just hope for the best for the Japanese service members.

Avionics has always been a risky profession. It is the nature of the beast.

As far useless spending on defense?

I would like you read this.

미본토전역이 우리의 사정권안에 있다!

-Kim Jong-un. Latest statement.

We would all be speaking the above if not for the spending on said defense measures.

With out such defensive weapons on Japanese soil. Jong-un Supreme leader would invade Japan and host of other countries in a micro second flat.

I should have written it is the Navy's C-20 Gulfstream that has the highest mishap rate of any current military aircraft. The trusty old C-2 Greyhound is being replaced by the V-22.

Lucky they dont fly cheap Chinese made junk made cheaper to break down sooner and more often.

The F-35 FIASCO..

The F-35 has had the lowest mishap rate of any combat aircraft the US or anybody else has ever developed. The F-35 fleet went a 100,000 hours before suffering their first mishap. That was a record.

When people say things like that they are probably not old enough to remember "widomakers" like the old F-104 (30 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours). the problems developing the F-111 (which ended up being a superb low lever bomber) or how awful the MiG-23 was, cheaply made and difficult to maintain. B-29s suffered a lot of crashes early in their development and all through their combat use they were prone to engine fires on take off (the big four row radial engines needed lots of cool right away air or things started to melt and burn pretty rapidly) and had 40 non combat mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. B-17s and B-24s had non-combat mishap rates of 30 and 35 per 100,000 hours respectively.

Currently the military aircraft with the highest mishap rate is the US Navy C-2 (20 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours), which is a version of a Gulfstream business jet. USMC F/A-18A and C models at around 8 per 100,000 flight hours, and AV-8Bs have about the worst mishap rate of current combat jets (they're old and worn out from combat). The CH-53E also has a very high mishap rate (even in the 1980s they were always broken, we joked and called them "static displays"). It too is on its way out, replaced by the CH-53K (out of the frying pan and into the fire ?).

Sounds like a lot of CCP Chinese "fishing boats" will be very busy for a while.

Nothing, but speculation.

The missing aircraft is painted in very distinctive and unusual livery; orange with black stripes. It can be seen on the Asahi News site...

Thats because it’s part of the Aggressor group. A squadron of elite pilots who take the role of enemy fighters in training.

The missing aircraft is painted in very distinctive and unusual livery; orange with black stripes. It can be seen on the Asahi News site...

Big Japanese defense manufacturers like Mitsubishi, IHI Corp. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries are struggling to sell 20th century tanks, aircraft and ships.

Stories like this are not informed by facts. Japan's new Type 10 tank is every bit a 21st century weapon. The Type 90s are basically a Japanese made copy of the German Leopard II, among the finest heavy tanks built anywhere. The new Mogami class frigates are world class combat ships, perhaps the most advanced frigate being built today. Likewise the Atago and Maya class DDGs are among the best equipped and most advanced DDGs in any navy today. Japan has since the 1970s been building advanced and powerful surface warships.

BeerDeliveryGuy: thank you for that information.

Not sure how they are supposed to work but against impoverished Yemeni drones with explosives strapped on, they are utterly useless.

Until this past week US Army air defense forces stationed in UAE had not engaged Houthi drones or missiles, but you have seen two engagements in the past week where US Army forces in UAE did indeed defeat Houthi attacks. Two THAADs took down two Houthi ballistic missiles. First use of THAAD in combat and it was successful. Yesterday a US Army Patriot battery engaged another Yemeni missile over UAE.

The Saudis have had great success downing Houthi missiles and drones with their Patriot batteries (Saudi Army, not US Army owned and operated batteries) but they have fired so many of them they are scrambling to find replacements. Looks like Raytheon can't build them fast enough but they have done a great job protecting the Saudis from Houthi attacks.

You can bash the US technology, but its very ironic that everyone wants what the US has. If the colleges were not that great why do others want to study abroad. Ask yourself and thank the US for keeping the chinese, North Koreans and the Russians off of your ARSE. You cry foul if the US does not provide support if you are getting the crap kicked out of you but bash the US when you claim your tax dollars aren't being well spent. If you think bow and arrows and swords are good enough to do battle then use them. We will use what we know works. One thing we do know is that crap the chinese make is only for one flight that is if it can make it through the g-forces for it to survive.

My Dad was a Convair B-58 Hustler pilot. That's a Mach 2 strategic nuclear bomber. Dash-n-drop. It had a bad flat spin issue if one of the 4 engines failed. There were deaths. It was pulled from service after only 10 yrs. Most people don't remember it.

I do. The Hustler was bad! As ground based air defenses and their radar systems improved flying high became too dangerous. The Chair Force had an even faster high altitude bomber, the XB-70 in development but due to the reasons mentioned, high altitude and speed offered no protection. The new norm was low level penetration with aircraft like the B-1B and FB-111. Hug the terrain and rely on low altitude to hide from radar. Now radars have improved more, so have the missiles and low level no longer buys much safety. Today you rely on all aspect Low Observable qualities and hide from radar that way.

Btw, if you ever have a chance visit the Museum of the US Air Force just outside lovely Dayton Ohio. The hanger for the experimental aircraft is dominated by the sole surviving XB-70 You are not prepared for how big it is. A YF-23 prototype is parked up under a wing. There are several other aircraft under its impressive wings. You see some early attempts at tilt rotor aircraft going back to 1960 and some surprisingly current looking UASs from the 1980s and 1990s. Seeing everything takes literally days. And yes there is a gloriously perfect B-58 among the exhibits but the B-36 (aka "Aluminum Overcast") makes even a B-52 look pretty small.

North Korea couldn’t successfully invade itself.

Avionics are electronic systems aboard aircraft or satellites.

These posts seem to focus on mechanical error. The flight was a training exercise and therefore pilot error needs to be considered.

BeerDeliveryGuyToday  09:11 am JST

What’s being speculated is that he was too proud to bail out over mechanical error, or was overconfident and thought he could control a malfunctioning aircraft.

Such ignorant speculation is unhelpful and unfair.

Any updates?

The new norm was low level penetration with aircraft like the B-1B and FB-111. Hug the terrain and rely on low altitude to hide from radar. Now radars have improved more, so have the missiles and low level no longer buys much safety. Today you rely on all aspect Low Observable qualities and hide from radar that way.

B-58 was designed in the 1950s. B-1 was designed in the 1970 and 80s. The B-58 was much faster than the B-1 and carried much more payload than the F-111. The F-111A was a replacement for the B-58 and many more F-111s were built than B-58s. F-111s flew for 30 yrs, not just 10.

Dad took me in for some B-52 simulator time one Sunday. I wasn't old enough to really understand too much. He was wing commander on that base. Sounds better than it really was. Simulators back then didn't have any windows or fake windows. Living a mile from a bomber flight line isn't good for sleeping. Plus, we had alligator problems. They'd get on the runway near the "christmas tree" part where the alert crews were located.

Btw, if you ever have a chance visit the Museum of the US Air Force just outside lovely Dayton Ohio. The hanger for the experimental aircraft is dominated by the sole surviving XB-70 You are not prepared for how big it is. A YF-23 prototype is parked up under a wing. There are several other aircraft under its impressive wings. You see some early attempts at tilt rotor aircraft going back to 1960 and some surprisingly current looking UASs from the 1980s and 1990s. Seeing everything takes literally days. And yes there is a gloriously perfect B-58 among the exhibits but the B-36 (aka "Aluminum Overcast") makes even a B-52 look pretty small.

I visit every aircraft museum that I can get to. Probably been to about 30 around the world, including Dayton. Spent 5 days there, but needed a few more to not be rushed and get into the external "experimental" hangar. I'm an ASE, so aircraft and spacecraft have been an interest for a long time. The B-36 IS crazy big. There's a B-58 1 hanger over in about the same location as the B-36. They group the planes by decade/war.

Been in the Marietta plant when the F-22 was being built. I live relatively near. It wasn't a big secret and the assembly was happening in the same area as the C-130j that Congress mandated, but the US military didn't want. I was consulting there for a few projects. It is a huge building with many sub-levels and full sized vehicles going underground. Because of Dad, the family had some access to locations at many USAF sites around the world. Interviewed with the Lockheed F-22 flight test engineering team and they offered a job, but the boss was an old-school axxhole, so I took a job elsewhere. The company where I worked on GN&C avionics and later on some space control centers world-wide (including Russia) was bought by Lockheed. Their first "annual review" and poor raise convinced me to leave.

I hope the crew are found soon.

My dad was a Flight Instructor…most accidents are “Pilot Error”, but not all.

I have some training myself from a Full Bird.

These posts seem to focus on mechanical error. The flight was a training exercise and therefore pilot error needs to be considered.

The pilot, Col Tanaka was a former Blue Impulse acrobat pilot and chief instructor for the Aggressor group, an elite group of pilots who take the role of enemy aircraft in air combat training.

What’s being speculated is that he was too proud to bail out over mechanical error, or was overconfident and thought he could control a malfunctioning aircraft.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/a5895d9b16c1ad2747e9c9bd2ac9de6730dc56e5

Avionics has always been a risky profession. It is the nature of the beast.

What?

I worked in avionics for years. Was only in 1 accident ... driving to work to write avionics code for a flight control and guidance system. Not risky at all. Had some friends who did flight test engineering and they were never in any incidents over their decade working on highly modified aircraft modified to behave like a completely different craft.

Perhaps you mean "military flying" instead?

My Dad was a Convair B-58 Hustler pilot. That's a Mach 2 strategic nuclear bomber. Dash-n-drop. It had a bad flat spin issue if one of the 4 engines failed. There were deaths. It was pulled from service after only 10 yrs. Most people don't remember it. Before the SR-71 was known, the B-58 held 19 speed records. Some stand today, just because the SR never flew those routes.

Tokyo to London in 8.5 hours. This record still stands today. The aircraft used was operational and not modified at all for the flight. https://www.aftc.af.mil/News/On-This-Day-in-Test-History/Article-Display-Test-History/Article/2457446/january-12-1961-b-58-hustler-sets-new-official-world-speed-record/

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/B58_Schematics.jpg is a diagram.

Commercial aircraft are by far the safest ways to travel and have been for decades. Commercial flying is safer than trains and buses. Much safer.

Anytime something crashes into the sea of Japan the article makes it sound they are clueless as to why or where it happened.

Were the pilots unable to communicate a distress signal also ?

Doesn't sound very reassuring

BUT we will buy F35 with technical faults, Aegis missiles that don’t work well…

Not sure how they are supposed to work but against impoverished Yemeni drones with explosives strapped on, they are utterly useless.

The ASDF is investigating why the fighter went off radar after the takeoff.

As a little hint, it might have lost or never have reached the height necessary to be detected by radar. But in return it would interest me, if it went off radar after takeoff, how could it be on radar before takeoff?

when an F-35A stealth fighter belonging to Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan, went down in the Pacific.

The F-35 FIASCO..

Japan has been wasting billions of dollars purchasing defective US-made weapons.

It will always be a waste of money that only enriches the coffers of a country that lives from war and its sale of weapons of death in the whole world..

It's as if Japan and USA are in a competition to see who can lose the largest number of jets/submarines. I've lost count of who's leading.

The $100 million F-35 that crashed was never recovered and the Japanese pilot died. Another F-35 recently fell off the deck of a US carrier in the South China Seas. The attack submarine USS Connecticut hits a seamount in the South China Seas. Costly collisions.

Oh, that's ok then. What a strange comment, they are not supposed to crash at all, especially when not at war!!

If confirmed, it will be the first time an ASDF plane has crashed in Japan since April 2019

If confirmed, it will be the first time an ASDF plane has crashed in Japan since April 2019 when an F-35A stealth fighter belonging to Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan, went down in the Pacific.

Makes it sound like going almost 3 years without an accident is a major accomplishment.

Honestly, these jets are costing countries around the world billions of dollars. Every few years a "new generation" of fighter planes is developed and countries are forced to update and buy the latest tech. There should be some kind of global ban on these aircraft. I know, people will say they are necessary, but its such a huge waste of money.

I think the current military budget is 1.3% of GDP in Japan. That seems small to me. The US spends far too much at 3.7% of GDP..

kids without food, important hospital operations cancelled, not enough virus testing kits, pension insufficient,

BUT we will buy F35 with technical faults, Aegis missiles that don’t work well…

@Rodney

BUT we will buy F35 with technical faults, Aegis missiles that don’t work well…

All weapons come with technical defects; that's a fact of life. But locally made weapon's problems can be resolved quickly and cheaply, compared to imported weapons.

This is why domestic weapons program is so important for national security.

Japan's problem is that due to Japan's de-industrialization and government budget problems that prioritize cheaper imported weapons, Japan's domestic arms industry is dying and is winding down. It is pretty astounding that Korea in comparison has managed to develop a strong arms export industry and become a top 5 arms exporter of the world.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Datawatch/Japan-s-defense-industry-on-the-ropes-amid-growing-threats

Japan's defense industry on the ropes amid growing threats

Reliance on U.S. for equipment grows as more companies stop production

JANUARY 12, 2022 15:32 JST

Amid increasing military threats from China and North Korea, Japan's defense industry has been shoved to the edge of the fighting arena because of domestic companies' withdrawal from the production of defense equipment.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2021/12/29/despite-defense-buildup-japans-arms-industry-struggle

Despite defense buildup, Japan’s arms industry struggles

Big Japanese defense manufacturers like Mitsubishi, IHI Corp. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries are struggling to sell 20th century tanks, aircraft and ships. They need to develop better technology to serve a military in the market for unmanned aircraft like Tritons made by Northrop Grumman and Boeing’s undersea Echo Voyager.

Likewise, Japan’s international arms sales have never really taken off. Uncompetitive, with high prices, aging technology and scant government support, arms makers in Japan increasingly are just withdrawing from the business.

@Meyowenti. Maybe you could purchase Chinese copies if you apologise for your WW2 attrocities. Hehehehe

This is an old jet that crashed due to mechanical problems from an old age.

The JASDF F-15 series has been under a heavy stress for the past few years due to constant scrambling imposed upon them by the PLA, whose war plan against Taiwan and Japan is to run their jets down without firing a single shot.

Since Japan doesn't have a fighter jet of its own, replacing old jets is not easy because they must be imported and must go through US review and approval process which can take years.

Japan has been wasting billions of dollars purchasing defective US-made weapons.

Were there any American ships with Aegis in the area who might have thought NK or China was attacking them...?