Video provides first clear views of WWII aircraft carriers lost in the pivotal Battle of Midway

A turning point battle thanks largely to efforts of American code breakers:

https://www.history.com/news/battle-midway-codebreakers-allies-pacific-theater

This is more of a story about the experiences of US seamen than of the finding of the Japanese ship!

Would have been true journalism if any living survivors could be found and interviewed for comments from the Japanese side!

Of the four Japanese aircraft carriers that went down during the battle of Midway, only Hiryu was sunk directly by the US fire. The other three were sunk by torpedoes launched from Japanese destroyers because they didn’t have strong enough cables to tow the badly damaged ships to Japan.

Wow! That's interesting.

Mr Hodges will soon celebrate 101 years of life, but I bet the sinking of the Yorktown will still feel like "yesterday". The human lifespan is too short to forget such momentous experiences.

The other three were sunk by torpedoes launched from Japanese destroyers because they didn’t have strong enough cables to tow the badly damaged ships to Japan.

This is simply not true. Devastator torpedo-bombers and SBD Dauntless dive-bombers from the USS Enterprise, USS Hornet, and USS Yorktown attacked the Japanese fleet. The Japanese carriers Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu were hit, set ablaze, and abandoned.

Randy DaytonaToday 09:54 am JST

Clean up all your world war 2 junk littering the ocean

Do it now

Or what? China will ban Japanese seafood again? Pathetic comments.

Imagine the sense of gloom and doom of the Zero pilots retuning to aircraft carriers that were no longer there.

The first substantial momentum shift of the war in favor of the US & allies.

That it came only 6 months after Pearl Harbor was surely a shock to the Japanese Imperial Navy and the leaders in Tokyo.

Aided by code breaking intelligence and better battle day strategies the US forces broke the Japanese notion that the weakened US will negotiate for peace and not fight back.

And it was Intelligence gathering that saw the Supreme Naval Commander Yamamoto shot down 2 years later and killed.

All of this was such a hit to moral for the Japanese that the stark reality of the events. of course were never publicly reported in Japan and in fact were described as victories.

And that these wrecks should remain untouched in respect to all who died and as a statement to the imbecility of war is to be welcomed.

The other three were sunk by torpedoes launched from Japanese destroyers because they didn’t have strong enough cables to tow the badly damaged ships to Japan.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I've looked up two on wiki and it says they were "scuttled". Its actually irrelevant whether the bombers fully sunk the ships, because disabling them to that extent had the same effect. Sinking them would have killed more crew members, so disabling is actually better.

Given Japan's limited resources during the war, towing them back would not have resulted in them quickly getting back into action. They would also likely have been attacked on the way back anyway.

What I rarely see talked about is how American forces truly snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with this battle.

Wave after wave of American planes were shot down. Pretty much all their planes were outdated and pilots not sufficiently trained. But they tenaciously kept attacking anyway. But the Japanese were utterly tactically superior.

And then a squadron of American planes that were essentially lost, so lost they lost a few planes that ran out of fuel, suddenly found the Japanese carriers and began to come in for attack despite being nearly out of fuel. And when the Japanese fighters went to engage them, coming in from one direction, then three squadrons of American dive bombers, outdated and slow as they were, found the carriers wide open to attack from their angle, and then within minutes two Japanese carriers were wrecked.

This was all rather similar to how the original Death Star blew up. It was no sure victory at all. The underdogs pulled it off, but at great loss, thanks to intel, tenacity and the unexpected appearance of friends thought out of the battle.

After that, there were the Japanese counter attacks on the Yorktown, and then counter attacks on the remaining Japanese ships, but this battle was largely decided by Air Group Commander C. Wade McClusky, Jr. who would not give up the search and then decided to boldly attack despite being low on fuel.

Congratulations you are correct

US dive bombers was a desperate move that worked out

It wasn't deliberate. The torpedo bombers, dive bombers and their escorting fighters were all supposed to arrive over the Japanese force at the same time and conduct a coordinated attack. It didn't work out that way. Squadrons became separated on the way in. The torpedo planes arrived first with no fighter escort and were annihilated. But the early arrival of the torpedo planes brought all the Japanese fighter aircraft, and the aim of their shipboard gunners down to the sea surface. They didn't notice the arrival of the dive bombers were into their dives and by then it was too late.

Julian Hodges, one of the last living veterans who served on the Yorktown, and who swam six hours with a dislocated shoulder to a rescue ship, teared up as he watched.

> “Boy, she took a beating,” Hodges said, just weeks shy of his 101st birthday. “I just hated to see my ship torn up like that.”

That is a serious feat to swim that far with a serious injury. Hats off to him and congratulations on reaching such a ripe old age with your memory still sharp.

Wave after wave of American planes were shot down. Pretty much all their planes were outdated and pilots not sufficiently trained. But they tenaciously kept attacking anyway. But the Japanese were utterly tactically superior.

I don't know where some of this stuff comes from. The Douglas SDB Dauntless was the premier dive bomber of WWII and remained so throughout the war. There was an attempt to replace it with the Curtiss Helldiver late in the war but the replacement was never as good as the trusty old Dauntless. Yes the Devastator torpedo planes and their torpedos were horrible. They were in the process of being replaced by the Grumman TBM and a much better torpedo that could be dropped at higher speeds and higher altitudes.

The other aircraft to attack the Japanese fleet were Army Air Corps aircraft that had stellar service records during WWII but were never intended to be used in naval warfare, aircraft like the B-26 Marauder and B-17. Outdated? Really?

It is also hard to argue the PBY Catalina patrol planes that spotted the Japanese force were outmoded. They are another aircraft that served well in every theater of war with the US and its allies. I would also say that based on kill ratios the Grumman F-4F Wildcat was more than the equal of the A6M5 Zero. While the Zero could turn the Zero had no armor, no self sealing fuel tanks and were extremely fragile. The Wildcat outgunned the Zero, and American pilots soon came up with tactics that exploited the Wildcat's advantages over the Zero. The Wildcat had a higher ceiling and was faster in a dive so the Americans would stay high, team up in pairs and use a diving weave to cut through the Japanese, a tactic called the Thatch Weave, named after the Navy pilot who developed the tactic. Wildcats could absorb damage where the Zero could not, and a lot more Zeros fell to the Wildcat than Wildcats were lost to Zeros.

Your post that US pilots were not sufficiently trained is simply not true. If anything they were the best trained naval aviators in any navy at the time and it was their skill and tactics that allowed them to prevail over the Japanese when they were outnumbered. As the war progressed the US rotated their experienced pilots back to the US to train up new pilots passing their hard earned knowledge on to the new members. The Japanese did not do this, preferring to keep their experienced pilots in combat until they were almost all lost, unable to pass their knowledge on to newly trained pilots. By 1944 Japanese pilots were inferior in every way to their US counterparts.

Julian Hodges looks great for 101. (OK, so he's 99 in the photo.) I hope this generation lives as long as they can, and shares as much as they can, about a time in history that we don't ever want to repeat.

what was the name of that big Japanese ship that could apparently run on Japanese spirit alone? But of course couldn't, and was sunk.

Yamato.

I could be wrong. But I'm never 100% sure on anything. It's the humble pie in me.

Yamato. 

I could be wrong. But I'm never 100% sure on anything. It's the humble pie in me.

There was a cartoon about that ship.

I'm almost 100% sure.

Guy with a white beard.

These are some of the best visual explanations of the Battle of Midway

From the Japanese perspective (so ya know what they saw and did not see):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo

From the US perspective (for the same observations):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHO6xrSF7Sw

CuteUsagiToday 05:00 pm JST

When wars were won by the US and not dragging their tails back to the mainland such as in Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

South Korea still exists. Iraq is not a completely lawless state and pumps more oil than Saddam Hussein ever did.

Many in my family fought.

Then I would think you would want to at least acknowledge the importance of the country they fought for. It's not going anywhere quietly, that is for sure.

Wave after wave of American planes were shot down. Pretty much all their planes were outdated and pilots not sufficiently trained. But they tenaciously kept attacking anyway. But the Japanese were utterly tactically superior.

An interesting but incorrect assessment of the facts. Japan lost 98 more planes than America did. And with less carriers the US forces outmaneuvered Japans fleet. You simply cant say "the Japanese were utterly tactically superior" or they would have been victorious. Perhaps your not aware that Japan lost the battle of Midway?

What really matters is many lives were lost and War is a losing endeavor for all parties. Better to avoid going to war in the first place. It is a failure of diplomacy that leads to misery for all sides.

By 1944 Japanese pilots were inferior in every way to their US counterparts.

This is part of the problem with your information. We are not talking about 1944 or after. We are talking about June 1942. Plus, you are adding a lot of post-war propaganda to make America look like it its always on the ball. The fact you need to bring it to a time that the Japanese were losing and their experienced pilots mostly dead says volumes.

The SBD dive bomber was nicknamed "Slow But Deadly" for more reason than its initials. It packed a punch, and was tough as nails, but it was so slow it needed the skies cleared by some means to deliver. Later variants were not so handicapped. But we aren't talking about them in relation to the initial waves.

It was the Devastators that dropped like flies. First a wave of 15 all wiped out. Then 9 of 14 blasted. Then 10 of 12 blown away.

It is also hard to argue the PBY Catalina patrol planes that spotted the Japanese force were outmoded.

What are you on about??? I never said anything about them! As far as I know when the three squadrons of SBDs arrived at the same time from different directions, they were all flying on their own and searching separately. Had their arrival been staggered, there is no doubt they would have failled too, because not only were planes slow but the torpedos absolutely sucked.

Your post that US pilots were not sufficiently trained is simply not true.

Nonsense. Six months from Pearl Harbor too many of the pilots were new.

If anything they were the best trained naval aviators in any navy at the time

You seem to have the Americans and Japanese confused. Besides which, who else was even so concerned with NAVAL aviation??? Throwing that caveat in there seems laughably desperate!

So many American pilots were so inexperienced they managed to kill an XO while scouting days before Midway!

The Battle of Midway was very nearly the naval equivalent of the disaster at Kassering Pass. America began by doing a LOT of blundering on the battlefield.

I would also say that based on kill ratios the Grumman F-4F Wildcat was more than the equal of the A6M5 Zero.

Hilarious! The same John S. Thatch the Thatch Weave is named after literally complained about the poor performance of the Wildcat compared to the Zero! Again you are taking things out of 1942 and talking about later variants at a time when Japan was losing and out of fuel, pilots and everything else!

"But the Japanese were utterly tactically superior."

Which is... ummm... why Japan won the Battle of Midway... I guess?

@Keepyer Internetpoints

With the US forces so totally out-equipped, out-gunned, and out-trained by the Japanese forces, as you claim, it makes one wonder how the US managed to utterly destroy the Japanese military on land, in air, and at sea, including the sinking of their vaunted Yamato and Musashi. (glub glub glub)

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  05:38 pm JST

CuteUsagiToday 05:00 pm JST

When wars were won by the US and not dragging their tails back to the mainland such as in Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

South Korea still exists. Iraq is not a completely lawless state and pumps more oil than Saddam Hussein ever did.

Many in my family fought.

Then I would think you would want to at least acknowledge the importance of the country they fought for. It's not going anywhere quietly, that is for sure.

I totally agree with you.

Randy DaytonaOct. 1 11:03 pm JST

What could possibly be wrong with cleaning up junk from WW2 ?

1) It would be very costly considering how deep it is.

2) People generally consider these things graveyards that should be left undisturbed.

Nobody is seriously pushing to raise the Titanic. Just some commons sense for you to consider.

@garypen

With the US forces so totally out-equipped, out-gunned, and out-trained by the Japanese forces, as you claim,

I never claimed US forces were out-equipped nor outgunned. I said the American airplanes of mid 1942 were outclassed, their torpedos rubbish, and a large number of pilots inexperienced and lesser trained than their Japanese counterparts. Luck and numbers played a huge role in winning at Midway, whereas inferior equipment and experience nearly cost the battle.

The US not only got stomped at Pearl Harbor, they also got booted from the Philippines. There are reasons for the claim that America was a sleeping giant in 1941. I did not start this claim. America caught back up because it was an economic and industrial powerhouse, having recently seized half a continent from people who left most of the natural resources in the ground. Tenacity of in the face of death also counted esp. at this battle. So did code-breaking.

Keepyer InternetpointsToday 06:03 am JST

@garypen

With the US forces so totally out-equipped, out-gunned, and out-trained by the Japanese forces, as you claim,

I never claimed US forces were out-equipped nor outgunned. I said the American airplanes of mid 1942 were outclassed, their torpedos rubbish, and a large number of pilots inexperienced and lesser trained than their Japanese counterparts. Luck and numbers played a huge role in winning at Midway, whereas inferior equipment and experience nearly cost the battle.

The US not only got stomped at Pearl Harbor, they also got booted from the Philippines.

It's almost like a sneak attack is difficult to defend against with local troops. Next you will tell us that Japan was innocent and it was the big bad murricans committing warcrimes like bullies. Get your issues sorted, please.

There are reasons for the claim that America was a sleeping giant in 1941. I did not start this claim.

Yeah, because you can't even admit that your country of birth can do some things right. It's a sickness.

America caught back up because it was an economic and industrial powerhouse, having recently seized half a continent from people who left most of the natural resources in the ground.

Could it be that all of the largest countries in the world have similar genocides to their name? I think it might just be.

Tenacity of in the face of death also counted esp. at this battle. So did code-breaking.

All arguments in favor of the sailors and airmen that fought for the US.

All arguments in favor of the sailors and airmen that fought for the US.

You say that as if I said U.S. military men had nothing going for them. I never said that.

It's almost like a sneak attack is difficult to defend against with local troops.

Yep. Its one way militaries get curb stomped. Incidentally, the U.S. does not phone ahead when it launches sneak attack drone strikes on nations its not at war with either. Militaries are supposed to be prepared for such things, especially when tensions are high, as they were in 1941. And that is how on the same day as the attack on Pearl Harbor, America won the first Battle of Midway. This one in the article is actually the second.

Next you will tell us that Japan was innocent and it was the big bad murricans committing warcrimes like bullies.

This is a is a very bizarre claim. Nothing I said would indicate this. I am just telling facts and you having a mentally weak gut response to them. No, the Japanese were not innocent. Yes, America was resting on a mountain of war crimes (such as the massacre of Filipinos 40 years earlier) and still is.

Get your issues sorted, please.

My words to you. If are going to get mad about facts, I sincerely advise you to quit the internet.

Could it be that all of the largest countries in the world have similar genocides to their name?

This need to deflect is pretty pathetic. Sounds like you are desperate do downplay mass murder, but only when the side you love does it. To quote Patrick O'Brien "....my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile.”

Yeah, because you can't even admit that your country of birth can do some things right. It's a sickness.

I am not sure what you mean by "right" that would have anything to do with the Battle of Midway. Militarily some things were done right and I said so. But the talk was about the details of how the battle played out, not an ethics debate, which should have been obvious to any fool.

Keepyer InternetpointsToday 10:12 am JST

It's almost like a sneak attack is difficult to defend against with local troops.

Yep. Its one way militaries get curb stomped.

Why do you use that kind of language? Did you get curb stomped by the US Navy?

Incidentally, the U.S. does not phone ahead when it launches sneak attack drone strikes on nations its not at war with either.

When you have an example of a government facility of a foreign country being attacked in an undeclared manner, you might have a point.

Militaries are supposed to be prepared for such things, especially when tensions are high, as they were in 1941.

Exercises are not the same as being completely on a war footing. You might as well say the US Navy should never have had more than one ship in port at the same time in case the Japanese came.

And that is how on the same day as the attack on Pearl Harbor, America won the first Battle of Midway. This one in the article is actually the second.

Yeah, some battle the first. Ships fired on Midway and the US marines there eventually responded. Of zero relevance to anything.

Next you will tell us that Japan was innocent and it was the big bad murricans committing warcrimes like bullies.

This is a is a very bizarre claim. Nothing I said would indicate this. I am just telling facts and you having a mentally weak gut response to them. No, the Japanese were not innocent. Yes, America was resting on a mountain of war crimes (such as the massacre of Filipinos 40 years earlier) and still is.

Nothing but a mentally weak nonacknowledgement of the 10 million killed by Japan in China. I'm sorry the US Navy hurt you, but you are going to have to get over your hurt someday.

Get your issues sorted, please.

My words to you. If are going to get mad about facts, I sincerely advise you to quit the internet.

I'll stay here to make sure nonsense gets properly disposed of.

Could it be that all of the largest countries in the world have similar genocides to their name?

This need to deflect is pretty pathetic. Sounds like you are desperate do downplay mass murder, but only when the side you love does it. To quote Patrick O'Brien "....my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile.”

Nothing deflecting about it. Your screeds against the US are cherry-picking.

Yeah, because you can't even admit that your country of birth can do some things right. It's a sickness.

I am not sure what you mean by "right" that would have anything to do with the Battle of Midway. Militarily some things were done right and I said so. But the talk was about the details of how the battle played out, not an ethics debate, which should have been obvious to any fool.

Some fools think that they should use language like "curb stomp" in what they claim is a dispassionate discussion of a battle. It's a sign of extreme immaturity.

TaiwainisnotChina: "Some fools think that they should use language like "curb stomp" in what they claim is a dispassionate discussion of a battle. It's a sign of extreme immaturity."

He clearly has no idea what he is arguing about and is trying desperately to deflect from that.