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Fire!

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A Ground Self-Defense Force anti-land mine missile is launched during an annual live-firing exercise at the Higashi Fuji training range in Gotemba, southwest of Tokyo, on Tuesday.

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korea / china , proceed with comments of impending militarism

-2 ( +2 / -3 )

All China has to do is wait another 10-20 years and walk in.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

(demographics)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Why does the army have an anti- landline missile if article 9 of the constitution stipulates Japan's armed forces are for self defense only? Did somebody mine Japan last night while we were sleeping? This is a clear violation and the SDF top people should all have to resign and face a court marshal with jail time. Also, these missile kill civilians indescrimately.

-11 ( +1 / -10 )

why do we have armor when the effective tactic against the enemy who made landfall is urban guerilla warfare?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I went to this actually, they were really close and you could see the shockwaves, quite cool

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Anti-land mine missle? Is this similar to a cluster bomb?

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All China has to do is wait another 10-20 years and walk in.

lol... so true

0 ( +2 / -2 )

sfk2, how is the mighty Chinese Army going to get to Japan swim?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

gogogo, I've been to this even before as well. I think of it as the annual "use-up-before-the-use-by-date" stock clearance. And even though I'm a raging pacifist, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And for that I have no explanation. :-P

2 ( +3 / -0 )

Does anyone know how an anti-landmine missile works? Does it shower clusters of tiny bombs to blow up all the landmines or what?

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sfk2, how is the mighty Chinese Army going to get to Japan swim

They don't need an army to take over Japan. ^p^

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Does anyone know how an anti-landmine missile works?

Try to google it and you will soon find out that those only seem to exist in Japan. My guess is that the name is wrong.

0 ( +0 / -1 )

My guess is that the name is wrong.

I'm no military buff, but it looks like the weapon in question is called a "地雷原処理車" in Japanese. The company that manufactures it calls it a "Land-mine processing vehicle" in English.. そのままやねん。

Why a land-mine processing vehicle fires missiles and why Japan even needs such a thing is beyond me, but at least now we know what it is.

http://www.kyb-ksm.co.jp/soubi/rikuku.htm

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It is called a "92式地雷原処理車" in Japanese.

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Most likely it is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M58_MICLIC

If you look at the picture closely you can see the line trailing from the rocket (not a missile) back to the launcher.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

taj: did you goto this years event? I was the only foreigner there... I sort of felt like a spy... they actually sat an official camera man next to after I sat down... call me paranoid.

but was fun either way :)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Now I get it, first of all it's not a missile, it's just a rocket that carries a line filled with explosives to as far as the rocket will fly. Once the rocket lands the line is ignited which induces a massive secondary explosion of all the mines along the path. Why GSDF keeps it in it's arsenal is beyond me but I guess if an island is taken by an invading army and JSDF is going to retake it then they'll need these to ensure that there are no mines on the beach line for landing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

papa and Fadamor: Thanks for the info. But it makes me even more confused. Since Japan signed The Ottawa Treaty or the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention, I don't understand why they spend money on such drills.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I was the only foreigner there... I sort of felt like a spy... they actually sat an official camera man next to after I sat down.

How do you know the "official cameraman" next to you wasn't a North Korean agent? :)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

FoxieAug. 24, 2011 - 11:59AM JST

papa and Fadamor: Thanks for the info. But it makes me even more confused. Since Japan signed The Ottawa Treaty or the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention, I don't understand why they spend money on such drills.

Yeah Japan may have but our crazy next door neighbors haven't so there is always a need of these if they start military advancement just to be on the safe side.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

papa and Fadamor: Thanks for the info. But it makes me even more confused. Since Japan signed The Ottawa Treaty or the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention, I don't understand why they spend money on such drills.

If a country did decide to invade and set up a beachhead, they would likely mine the surrounding areas to limit the avenues where they could expect retaliation. For Japan to not consider this possibility simply because THEY promised to not use land mines would be a major blunder and likely spell the defeat of any forces trying to defend Japan against such a beachhead. All this platform does is open up a lane through a minefield - and not a very long lane at that. If this system uses the same rocket as the M58, then the "lane" it creates isn't even that long: only 8 meters by 100 meters. Not a weapon I would say could be used for offensive purposes.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But we are in 2011, not in WWII. Our neighbors would use nuclear missiles, I would presume.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The JGSDF werenothing competence being a professional fighting force, their yearly exercise were little show to entertain their own people telling them where and how their tax were paid! Their members has an average age of 50s or even more! How many young people in Japan willing to spend their lifetime career with the JGDF?

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Fadamor- that's exactly what I was going to post.

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Same here, my first thought was: Why does the SDF have such a (anti) weapon?

Unless they believe they will be invaded and the land mined, why on Earth does the SDF need this?

Strange indeed.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

How do you know the "official cameraman" next to you wasn't a North Korean agent? :)

There were wearing a SDF uniform ... helmet and all :)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Does anyone know how an anti-landmine missile works? Does it shower clusters of tiny bombs to blow up all the landmines or what?

I was there, it fired up the hill, went about 200 meters, broke apart and a rope of bombs all attached together (I'm not knowledgeable on terms) came out like a snake in a can, it landed on the ground and exploded a few seconds later in a series.

It was the largest missile they fired, they also fired about 4-5 different tanks, some helicopters came in and machine gunned a few targets. They also fired some shoulder rockers and some snipers showed off their skills. They had machine guns on the tanks firing tracer bullets so you could see what they were doing. It was a big PR stunt, but great fun.... at the end they lined up all the tanks and machines and you could walk up and touch em and take photos.

There was suppose to be a jet but the weather was really bad so it couldn't drop it's bomb or whatever it was going to do...

I wouldn't take young kids, unless you bring ear protection, when 4 tanks fire at once about 100 meters away from you your ears are ringing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@gogogo

How do you know the "official cameraman" next to you wasn't a North Korean agent? :) There were wearing a SDF uniform ... helmet and all :)

Well yes...but I doubt s/he'd have turned up in a jeongori :)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bit early for November the 5th, isn't it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No gogogo, I wasn't there this year. My group gets about 10 invitations a year and I have to wait for my turn to come round again. When I went, I was also the only visible foreigner (at least that I noticed), but no one paid attention to me. The weather was also poor with low cloud cover so we didn't get some parts of the show, but there were motorcycles coming out of the back of hovering cargo helicopters and other such exciting stunts, to go with the loud, loud, loud excitement of the big ammunition.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It looks like a toy army. In good sense :)

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tajAug. 24, 2011 - 09:24AM JST

And even though I'm a raging pacifist, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And for that I have no explanation. :-P

Men love things that go BOOM. Its a weakness we all need to be aware of and keep in check. I am also a pacifist, of the shock and awe variety (a lot of people don't expect my sudden and vehement laying down of the law), but I am a war game addict. People start talking positively about the real thing though, and I can get pretty verbally aggressive.

AsagaoAug. 24, 2011 - 07:50AM JST

Why does the army have an anti- landline missile if article 9 of the constitution stipulates Japan's armed forces are for self defense only

I don't think article 9 even allows for a self-defense force at all my friend.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

How many people wants to revoke the article 9 in Japan? Did they ever imagine if there is a conflict between japan or any countries, those 50s plus SDF members were putting themselves in harms way? Those politicians yelling loud to do something like special but are they going to bear the responsibilities if casualties came home, how to explain to those SDF members' families for pushing 50 years old men to risk their lives?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The only occasion the GSDF can be put to use for defending Japan apart from missile defense and logistics is when the enemy makes landfall when our navy and air force are at the bottom of the ocean. Here's the irony: Tokyo will most likely surrender to the enemy in that circumstance, so the GSDF is useless for combat, unless of course they fight as partisans along with irregular volunteers, but this not what they are trained to do amongst others. Neither is the mounting of amphibious assaults against offshore interests, even reinforcing the defensive position of our continental allies is also out of the question and yet Japan has ample armor that are unfit for combat on the rugged or otherwise densely populated Japanese terrain.

There are so much inconsistencies between the strategic discipline of the GSDF and the nation's enduring 'pacifist' policies that makes me uncomfortable as a Japanese resident and taxpayer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

land mine clearing weapons and tanks are offensive weapons that are utilized to rapidly cover ground on the advance. Does Japan need them? probably not, but there's nothing wrong for Japan to train its citizens to be able to fight under the colours of an ally when need be.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

patty cake championAug. 24, 2011 - 07:54PM JST land mine clearing weapons and tanks are offensive weapons that are utilized to rapidly cover ground on the advance.

How do you draw the line between a offensive and a defensive weapon? Another question is if a certain part of land was taken over by the enemy would you not attack to regain that land? Will retaking land for example Okinawa that had been lost to the advancing enemy violation of article 9 and if so how?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@patty cake champion: I take issue with your characterizations of certain weapons as offensive or defensive. Here's why:

Let's say I own a club. (Not a night club, but the kind of club that one might use to hit someone else.) If I go to your house and bring my club with me, and hit you over the head with my club, it's an offensive weapon. If, on the other hand, I'm sitting in my house and you break down my door and threaten me, and I hit you over the head with my club, it's a defensive weapon.

In case that wasn't clear enough: most weapons are not inherently "offensive" or "defensive." It's the circumstances under which they are used that make that distinction.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

still using type-61 piece-o-crap?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Olrik

still using type-61 piece-o-crap?

No point showing off how you deploy your latest, high-tech equipment to the whole world (including your enemies), is there?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How do you draw the line between a offensive and a defensive weapon? Another question is if a certain part of land was taken over by the enemy would you not attack to regain that land? Will retaking land for example Okinawa that had been lost to the advancing enemy violation of article 9 and if so how?

the disturbing fact is, the GSDF is not trained to storm beach heads or mount a long term counter-offensive inland. Even if they did, MBTs won't be effective on Japanese soil as mimitchy pointed out.

Let's say I own a club. (Not a night club, but the kind of club that one might use to hit someone else.) If I go to your house and bring my club with me, and hit you over the head with my club, it's an offensive weapon. If, on the other hand, I'm sitting in my house and you break down my door and threaten me, and I hit you over the head with my club, it's a defensive weapon.

In case that wasn't clear enough: most weapons are not inherently "offensive" or "defensive." It's the circumstances under which they are used that make that distinction.

MBTs are not effective for reinforcing defensive positions. Which brings us back to my original point.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Also I forgot to mention that modern armored offensives rely on close air-support. By the time Japan needs to fight on land, Japan and her allies would've already lost air superiority. Even for preparing counter-offensives, I highly doubt Japanese armored units could hide until the US could bring a few far flung carrier BGs over and re-establish some control over Japanese airspace before that could all happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

lucabrasi; don't be silly, know all about Type 90-mod/Type 10 MBT. Fear it may be a tad light...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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