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Nuclear power

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A fuel rod is inserted into a reactor vessel inside the No. 1 reactor building at Kyushu Electric Power's Sendai nuclear power station in Satsumasendai, Kagoshima Prefecture, on Wednesday. Kyushu Electric Power Co started loading uranium fuel rods into a reactor on Tuesday, marking the first attempt to reboot Japan's nuclear industry in nearly two years after the sector was shutdown following the 2011 Fukushima disaster.

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Looks like the beginning of the sequel of a terror movie...

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Those that do not learn from history...

0 ( +5 / -5 )

A good start!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Please remove them! You DO NOT have local consent to use this reactor.

Did they model the lighting after a movie set?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

About. Damned. Time.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Doesn't look like they are wearing much if any protective gear!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hi GW,

Doesn't look like they are wearing much if any protective gear!!

The fuel is kept underwater - blocking most of the radiation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yeah but what if something gets rock & rolled, remember 3/11!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All this needs is a bond villain. While I think that Japan can't really survive without nuclear power, the symbolism of the rod being inserted against the will of the locals is too obvious to ignore....

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What? No hard hats?

Yeah, a pretty photo of a disaster waiting to happen.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

GW,

Yeah but what if something gets rock & rolled, remember 3/11!

It would need to be a very big quake!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It would need to be a very big quake!

And Japan never has very big quakes, so no worries?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

cleo

And Japan never has very big quakes, so no worries?

When it's the tsunamis that cause the damage, I would say few worries. More worries for the towns and cities hit by quakes.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

When it's the tsunamis that cause the damage, I would say few worries

Like most nuclear power plants in Japan, the Sendai plant is located on the coast. Explain again why tsunamis aren't a problem?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Zichi, Cleo,

GW was talking about earthquakes.

As for tsunamis, they, and earthquake damage, are now dealt with comprehensively.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

As for tsunamis, they, and earthquake damage, are now dealt with comprehensively

I have no idea what that sentence means. How do you 'deal comprehensively' with 30 to 40m of water sloshing up and over you and 5 kilos inland? and more importantly, over up-and-running potential meltdowns?

Has Fukushima been 'dealt with comprehensively'?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Cleo

I have no idea what that sentence means. How do you 'deal comprehensively' with 30 to 40m of water sloshing up and over you and 5 kilos inland? and more importantly, over up-and-running potential meltdowns?

You build tsunami walls that can cope with possible tsunamis.

Has Fukushima been 'dealt with comprehensively'?

Why, are they going to recommission it?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You build tsunami walls that can cope with possible tsunamis.

You mean like the wire fence on the beach outside the Sendai NPP that turns into a pile of tetrapods in the sea, that can be seen on Google maps satellite view? What possible tsunami would a wire fence keep out?

https://www.google.co.jp/maps/place/Satsumasendai,+Kagoshima+Prefecture/@31.8306106,130.1856632,283m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x353e2318884dc3c3:0x4c027ceb3403d935

Has Fukushima been 'dealt with comprehensively'?

Why, are they going to recommission it?

I certainly hope not. But it would be nice to know they'd resolved all the problems there before they work on possibly recreating the same problems at the other end of the country.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Zichi,

"Hope" there's never another 300 foot high tsunami again. "Hope" is always an important defence, yes!

With a 300 foot high tsunami, nuclear power plants would be the least of Japan's concerns.

Cleo,

You mean like the wire fence on the beach outside the Sendai NPP that turns into a pile of tetrapods in the sea, that can be seen on Google maps satellite view? What possible tsunami would a wire fence keep out?

Point 1: Google Maps is not continuously updated. Point 2: You have no elevation data there. Point 3: I said possible tsunamis. Point 4: There's a 15 metre high wall at the Sendai plant. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be4db1de-57c1-11e4-b47d-00144feab7de.html#axzz3fSqlt7gN

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Point 1: Google Maps is not continuously updated.

It's not years out of date, either. How long does it take to build a good strong high tsunami wall? More than a couple of months, I imagine.

Point 2: You have no elevation data there.

zichi gave you the elevations. (though I think he inadvertently slipped in an extra 0 on the height of his tsunami) 15 metres above sea level. The 1605 Nankaido earthquake sent a 30m tsunami at Kyushu.

Point 3: I said possible tsunamis.

See above. What are they going to do, wait until the tsunami warning sounds and they're sure a tsunami is coming, and then start frantically building?

Point 4: There's a 15 metre high wall at the Sendai plant.

Not according to zichi's information.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

zichi, I stand corrected - I read 300 feet as 300 metres. Basically a mountain falling into the sea. gulp.

But hey, no worries, it was a one-off, that kind of thing isn't ever going to happen again.

...is it?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

zichi, you're right - it's never going to happen - but if it's happened once, it can happen again. The 1605 earthquake I mentioned earlier generated a huge tsunami all the way from the Boso Peninsula to Kyushu.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Zichi, Cleo,

It's interesting when you read about the Mt. Unzen mega tsunami:

A volcano in a bay suffering a face collapse, the rock falling into the bay and causing a mega tsunami in the bay

Google Maps shows no bay at the Sendai Plant, and no large volcanos facing it.

As usual, you are extrapolating historical facts without digging into the situation behind those facts.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Zichi,

Kaimondake, Sakurajima, Mount Unzen, Kuchinoerabu, A powerful earthquake along the Nankai Tough.

Not facing the Sendai Plant, not facing the Sendai Plant, not facing the Sendai Plant, not facing the Sendai Plant, and not facing the Sendai Plant.

I remember the 11/3 earthquake and tsunami - thankfully the tsunami did not miraculously go around Tohoku and hit the Japan Sea Coast.

Much of the Sendai NPP is not very high above sea level and there appears to be little in the way of real sea defences?

Well, apart from the wall.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Zichi,

The Nankai Trough is on the Pacific side of Japan, the Sendai Plant is on the Japan Sea side.

Tsunamis have to account for topography, they do not have teleportation powers.

Perhaps the wall at the Sendai plant is 13 metres + 2 metres above sea level. Now what the tsunami at Fukushima Dai-ichi was is irrelevant - it is what the Sendai plant faces which is relevant. All you have been able to provide on the matter are historical tsunamis whose mechanisms or reach in no way threaten the Sendai plant...unless volcanoes can do back-flips over mountain ranges to explode in the sea?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Zichi,

Shifting the goal posts again? We were on the topic of tsunamis, not volcanic eruptions. As for Kyuden - your previous link, as usual, contains the information you seek: a 9.1 Mag earthquake in the Ryukyu is part of the safety plan for the plant.

The main point before the nuclear disaster is that no one in authority, I.e. the nuclear village ever believed a nuclear disaster was possible.

We are post-disaster now. Lessons have been learned. As an aside, why do you think that no-one in authority in civil protection believed a local-source tsunami was possible on the Pacific Coast of Tohoku?

TEPCO never believed the Fukushima plant would be hit with a 14 meter high tsunami. What would have happened if it had been hit with the full 40 meter one?

What "full 40 metre one"?

So you think a tsunami from the Pacific region could never hit the plant?

I believe any tsunami that is large enough to threaten the plant from the Pacific would have to be enormous. Such a tsunami would cause such death and destruction on the Pacific Coast of Japan that whatever happened on the Japan Sea Coast would pale in comparison.

I'm sure if that occured, with casualties in the 10s to 100s of millions, we'd still have people crying about radiation rather than crying over the graves of the dead.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Zichi,

No I don't think so since powerful volcanic eruptions can also cause tsunami so the Ryukyu Volcanic Arc with more than 10 active volcanoes but be a threat to the Sendai NPP and therefore would need investigations and considerations for the safety of the plant.

the "Ryukyu Arc" is the correct term. It is a volcanic island arc, it does not make a statement about the actual level of volcanic action. Only 4 of the 10 volcanoes are active: Iwo-Tori Shima, Suwanose-jima, Kuchinoerabu-jima, and Kikai.

The 10 meter sea wall you wrote about isn't a sea wall which protects all of the plant from a tsunami. Its just in front of the location of the sea water cooling pumps and I couldn't find any links to discover if its been finished.

Looking at the middle picture at the bottom of page 18 of the document you posted, there is a wall to protect the sea-pumps, and a 13 metre wall protecting the plant.

Sounds like PM Abe telling everyone everything is under control. We are a long way off being post disaster since its still going on and will do for many decades to come. Post disaster will be in about 100 years if TEPCO manages to fully decommission the plant, but at this stage, that possibility is not even known.

The major lessons of the accident have been learned. That's what I meant by post-disaster.

Other major problems at the Sendai NPP is there seems to be only one offsite power supply which is carried on conventional pylons for many kilometres to a substation. I know Kyushu Power have put power trucks at the plant but I don't know if there are emergency backup generators.

Back-up generators are a requirement.

Do you mean like the India Ocean tsunami created by an earthquake in 2004? One like that "could never" hit Japan?

Tsunamis do need to have sources. They are also affected by topography, both surface and underwater. They do not magically appear. Kyuden seem to have revised their defenses to deal with a 9.1 magnitude tsunami. That seems prudent.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

it comes with shock and surprise the NRA, does not not a single volcano expert on its committee

But historically no NPP has ever been put out of action by a volcanic eruption. That means it could never happen. Never in a million years. No point worrying about something that isn't going to happen, is there?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I am sure the NRA can consult and can employ vulcanologists.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yes, a tsunami generated by a 9.1 mag quake.

That could mean on trucks too which appears to be the case at Sendai which could topple over in a powerful quake. Volcanic eruption could topple the main offsite power lines and the truck generators. What then?

Use the back-up generators.

Last week the IAEA issued its report on its inspection of TEPCO NPP in Niigata and was critical in some areas.

Critical?

The team made a number of proposals for improvements to operational safety at the plant

Yup, lessons learned - listen to outside agencies.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Zichi,

All NPPs need back-up generators. I would have assumed your engineering degrees would have told you that.

As for the Niigata plant "failing" the inspection:

The IAEA team said that, following the Fukushima Daiichi accident, the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant has implemented "comprehensive and robust" defence measures against severe accidents. The plant also conducts frequent emergency drills and has reduced fire risk through "thorough control of all combustible materials", the team concluded.

Some failure!

As for outside agencies, largely the NRA and IAEA.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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