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Signs of the times

44 Comments

Yasukazu Hamada (2nd R), chairman of the Upper House Special Committee on on Security, shouts as he is surrounded by opposition lawmakers during a vote on the security-related legislation in the Diet in Tokyo on Wednesday. Legislation to implement a dramatic change in Japanese defense policy that could allow troops to fight abroad for the first time since World War Two was approved by a lower house panel on Wednesday, despite opposition from a majority of ordinary voters.

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This is how Japan works. The weaker person gets shouted at, pushed around....even in supposedly professional circles.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

自民党感じ悪いよね

You can say that again!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The weaker person gets shouted at, pushed around....even in supposedly professional circles.

Exactly

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Bad day, very bad day for the nation. But it will still need the end of Article 9 of the Constitution. Summer of discontent.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Democracy failed.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@zichi

I took it to mean the opposite; this bill removes the need to change the constitution, at least on the eyes of the LDP.

Or am I missing something?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Honestly, the best you can do is stand around and scream while holding posters like an angry bunch of AKB48 fans?

Yep, we're pretty much screwed.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

This is how Japan works ...even in supposedly professional circles.

You don't say!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

luca

I may be incorrect but I understand for Japanese troops to go to war in another country would also need the end of Article 9?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The weaker person gets shouted at, pushed around....even in supposedly professional circles.

huh? the person being shouted at is a member of the LDP, so he is not the "weaker person" in the picture. the fearmongering by the left and the pacifists would have you believe that this is the start of WWIII. there are rogue nations with nuclear capabilities who have not declared war on any other country, but tiny japan will?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Agree with the above post.

Like the Iran and ME position. Have Pakistan and India used their weapon Nukes yet.

I am sure Iran could buy a few or the tech to make their own as could a few of the groups like Al Qhaids, ISIS, etc.

Wasn't there a huge organised Demo/Rally outside of the Diet yesterday? Those listed look a lot like what I saw those carry, I think close to 10.000 attended.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@zichi

Dunno, I'm confused... exactly the way Abe wants us to be....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cheers.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Like the breeze in my home. Once I crack the door even a little it flys open!

You feel that rush of air?!?!? That's right. We have just lost cabin pressure.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hey ISIS, look out, because the J-troops are coming to your neck of the desert to take care of biz - cool biz.

Really, people, what's the big deal? The Self-Defense Force is voluntary, so if there's a chance they'll fight abroad, I can imagine enrollment will drop big time.

Or maybe it'll take a few troops coming home minus a few limbs or severely disfigured for the public to finally boot this party out of power.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Really, people, what's the big deal? The Self-Defense Force is voluntary, so if there's a chance they'll fight abroad, I can imagine enrollment will drop big time.

Didn't they say that about Vietnam, too?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Didn't they say that about Vietnam, too?

Conscription.....

3 ( +6 / -3 )

A diet member of the Democratic Party Ms. Tsujimoto said to the chairman 'Don't vote on the bill for Heaven's sake!'. But she should say the same phrase to China invading the South China Sea.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Conscription.....

Precisely, Zichi. Just what those with children fear.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abe seems to be going in boots and all on this. Bit of a worrying development. Up until now there were decent opposition forces to defend the constitution, however, most of those folks are now dead.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

zichiJul. 15, 2015 - 02:57PM JST

I may be incorrect but I understand for Japanese troops to go to war in another country would also need the end of Article 9?

No. Abe's argument is that collective defense is defense, therefore not prohibited by Article 9. After the law passes, Japanese Defense Forces can go anywhere in the world, for defense. The UN requirements of collective defense is that a country is attacked by another country, the attacked country requests help, and the country exercising collective defense report to the UN Security Council after the intervention.

Most of law professors in Japan are against such interpretation of the Constitution.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Wasn't there a huge organised Demo/Rally outside of the Diet yesterday? Those listed look a lot like what I saw those carry, I think close to 10.000 attended.

Too little, too late, people thought their weekend protesting would wake Abe up, it failed. Now they need a million people to clog up the streets around the diet to get their message through....wont happen though, people would be late for work.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Conscription.....

Exactly. The Japanese mentality of "not wanting to be the nail that stands up" will do the rest. Abe will have all the cannon-fodder he needs - willing and not so willing

0 ( +5 / -5 )

CH3CHO

Thank you for the update/correction but I think PM Abe will also attempt to remove or change Article 9 too.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Democracy didn't fail. These politicians were elected by the people in fair elections. These are the politicians of a party that won easily in the past few elections. What's not democratic about that? People had the chance to choose and they chose Abe and his party repeatedly and now some people are shocked, SHOCKED! that Abe is doing exactly what he said he'd do over and over for a decade now.

If you don't like who you voted for, that's a different story, but this is democracy. Democracy doesn't mean that the best politician always is in control and makes the best decisions, democracy is giving the people the chance to say who or what party they want to have in power.

And in my opinion, the Japanese people failed, and they've failed for the past few years when they kept strengthening Abe's party and thus giving him the power to do what he wanted, what he's never been shy about wanting, more power and a bigger military.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Abe will have all the cannon-fodder he needs - willing and not so willing

Conscription is not possible Article 16 or politically

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Only in Japan could this guy shout "You Okayed this! Proof is in the vote!" while EVERYONE around him is shouting opposition, and get away with it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Interestingly, Abe's NHK didn't broadcast the proceedings live:

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH7H3QJJH7HUTIL01Q.html?iref=comtop_6_02

I wonder why...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Interestingly, Abe's NHK didn't broadcast the proceedings live:

Not really, this is just a committee meeting, the real fireworks will come when it hits the whole house. NHK does not always broadcast committee meetings.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Collective defence will not necessarily mean that the JGSDF goes off to fight someone else's war... if a country is attacked and asks for help Japan could be asked. How is fighting alongside America in the ME considered collective defence? America HASN'T been attacked... they have gone in under their own rules of warfare. Japan WILL NOT be obliged to send forces to aid another country fighting in someone else's country. That's not collective defence.

I think it basically means if that if Australia is attacked by North Korea (unlikely but not outside the realms of the imagination) then under the collective defence thingy if the Aussies call for help then yes the SDF could go. Fighting ISIS isn't the same thing at all.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

BEST DAY EVER!!!

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

How is fighting alongside America in the ME considered collective defence? A

Abe has made some references about providing logistical support to American forces in the region, and his answers, when questioned about the safety of the troops that may be sent there, were extremely vague.

Abe THINKS he is a leader, and he seems to have visions of grandeur of somehow besting his Grandpappy and making the LDP the dictators that he wants.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Abe has made some references about providing logistical support to American forces in the region, and his answers, when questioned about the safety of the troops that may be sent there, were extremely vague.

Logistical support is what the SDF provided in Afghanistan... how is that any different?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Pathetic robotic opposition. Placards all identical and printed off. Just wanting their faces, waving arms to be seen on camera by their constituents.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I hate to recall but this Demo recall Juew 1960 anti anti Kishi anti anti Anpo demo, If hiseory repeat, Abe will push through.

The three types od plaxaeds anti Abe and opposing kyoko saiiketsu.

US media is too busy on Iran situation. No news on Japan yet. All Star reporting was more topics, too.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sorry but these folks in the photo are either selfish (Americans can die to defend us but we won't die for them), just incredibly oblivious to world affairs (East and South China Sea), or simply idealistic (down with war) folks who, having had their peace guaranteed to then by the US for 70 years simply can't grasp the concepts that the purpose of a military is to PREVENT war from occurring, not causing it like Imperial Japan did in WWII. And that freedom and democracy are NOT FREE.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Ossan. Yep, agree with you.

Legislation to implement a dramatic change in Japanese defense policy that could allow troops to fight abroad for the first time since World War Two was approved by a lower house panel on Wednesday, despite opposition from a majority of ordinary voters.

The SDF won't be knee-deep in blood and guts in some foreign country. Everyone is overreacting.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The number of steamrolling

the Democratic Party

Hatoyama 9 times (the period of reign 266 days)

Kan 8 (452 days)

Noda 4 (482 days)

the Liberal Democratic Party

Abe 1 (1200 days)

The LDP is more democratic than the DP, which Tsujimoto blong to.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

They are not protesting referendam. I wonder they know what they are protesting. decision is not going to be made strong handly. (kyoko saiketsu hantai) So they are demonstrating with false claim. if they want voters to agree with them they should know what is going on,

0 ( +1 / -1 )

harvey pekar JUL. 15, 2015 - 05:49PM JST And in my opinion, the Japanese people failed, and they've failed for the past few years when they kept strengthening Abe's party and thus giving him the power to do what he wanted, what he's never been shy about wanting, more power and a bigger military.

Seriously they had a real shot at booting out PM Abe last year. Too bad Japan didn't have too many strong candidates, which I feel is a cop-out excuse to me. Has he made any improvements in Japanese economy, gender representation or reputation since he was in power?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Sorry but these folks in the photo are either selfish (Americans can die to defend us but we won't die for them), just incredibly oblivious to world affairs (East and South China Sea), or simply idealistic (down with war) folks who, having had their peace guaranteed to then by the US for 70 years simply can't grasp the concepts that the purpose of a military is to PREVENT war from occurring, not causing it like Imperial Japan did in WWII. And that freedom and democracy are NOT FREE.

Agree. With this passage and implentation, new alliances will be formed and the existing ones will improve. It's an enhanced deterrent. Furthermore, you can interpret these folks as "careless' in regards to the general safety of the Japanese people they supposedly represent.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

OssanAmericaJul. 15, 2015 - 11:43PM JST

Sorry but these folks in the photo are either selfish (Americans can die to defend us but we won't die for them),

That is rather shallow analysis.

The question to ask is if the US wants the Japanese Army strong, or weak.

The US chose a weak Japanese Army, by persuading Japan that it does not need a strong Army since the US would protect it. As a result the US did not have to worry about fighting another war with Japan, and was able to put Japan under its influence. The deal was a success. But the US had to agree to defend Japan while Japan did not agree to defend US. It was a price to pay for putting Japan under US influence.

Now, you say it is "selfish" that Americans can die to defend Japanese but Japanese won't die for Americans. OK. But how can you keep Japan under US influence if things are put equal?

The same could be said of Europe, Middle East or everywhere. US can lose its influence, just by asking to be equal. It is upto Americans.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;

William, 400 years ago, c 1600 AD.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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