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Tough talk

43 Comments

U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta speaks to service members during his first official visit to Japan at Yokota Air Force Base in Tokyo on Monday. See story here.

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Go home, Panetta, and take all your lackeys with ya.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

ben4shortOct. 25, 2011 - 07:26AM JST. Go home, Panetta, and take all your lackeys with ya.

How ungrateful. Then Japan should assume all of the defense cost. If this happens the defense cost for Japan will increase 10 percent a year for many decades. This would be great for U.S. taxpayer if they no longer have to pay for the bulk of the cost on Japan defense. Let Japan pay on its own.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Point being, sfjp, that the US should permanently close ALL of its military bases across the globe, though the economic reason you cite comes in third after moral and political ones.

-11 ( +1 / -11 )

actually its rather cheap by comparison for the united states to have its military in japan versus say germany. the treaty has it so the government of japan provides for the costs of the installations and also provides a large japanese civilian work force on the bases to run things.

the yankees aren't going anywhere for the next half century, unless there is a huge change with china and north korea.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

sunhawkOct. 25, 2011 - 08:00AM JST. actually its rather cheap by comparison for the united states to have its military in japan versus say germany. the treaty has it so the government of japan provides for the costs of the installations and also provides a large japanese civilian work force on the bases to run things.

Japan is trustworthy. Time has changed where Japan and U.S. has to revise the article 9 agreement and add more responsibility on Japan. Japan currently pays meager one percent of their GNP in defense, and they needs to provide greater shares in the cost to upgrade their defense. U.S. discount rate is not substainable.

ben4short...I wish U.S. can close all the bases, but realistically, U.S. is still a deterrant, but they can reduce the number of troops and negotiate with all the allie in the region to develop effective Pacific regional defense, similar to NATO which would bring down the cost.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"...the economic reason you cite comes in third after moral and political ones."

Moral reasons? Is providing security for Japan and citizens immoral?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Point being, sfjp, that the US should permanently close ALL of its military bases across the globe, though the economic reason you cite comes in third after moral and political ones.

ben4short, very disgrateful comment.

1)start mandatory military draft over men/women of Japan age under 38 yrs old serving for SDF. 2)Change the article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. 3)Start spending 10-15% GDP (I am not kidding) to defend your own country.

Talk is cheap, just do it all listed above. People like you needs a big ass kicked. I want you to see what's like to be in combat in fear, sweat, tears and killed. I bet you are the first one requesting a medical excuse from military duty. LOL

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

Not if you buy into the fantasy that that's what US bases are actually for.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Why does the thumbs-down not work on globalwatcher?

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You're right, globalwatcher, talk is cheap. So why don't you spend a little more time and effort posting something that is intelligible, and maybe I'll be able to respond. (And for your information, I did serve, in Vietnam, probably before you were even born, son. The good old days of innocence when I, too, bought into the govt lies and fantasies.)

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@cleo

Why does the thumbs-down not work on globalwatcher?

It did for me! Refresh the page, my friend... then try again. I'm glad I could give him my thumbs down... lol The comment is just....insane!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Readers, please focus your comments on the topic and not thumbs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Readers, please keep the discussion civil, do not get personal and stay on topic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I like this guy. I listened to this live on AFN Eagle 8.10 Live yesterday. We aren't going anywhere. Instead we are going to strengthen our forces in the Pacific.

While listening to this, I thought about YuriOtani. A person I don't know but I know how she feels about the Futenma situation. Believe me I felt for you if ever read this.

There was a Q & A session after his speech. There was only one question from a Japanese person, reporter maybe. It had nothing to do with Futenma.

Obviously we are here to stay.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

If not for America and it's allies, the world would be a really crappy place. Sure it's never been perfect. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq all have it's share of problems and bad reputation, but still having bases around the world serve as a good deterrent towards rogue style nations.

I personally appreciate the presence of American soldiers in this part of the world and feel much more secure!

And yes there are always political reasons behind this and that misleading people into believing this or that when the real agenda is something very different like going to war or setting up a base somewhere in this world.

But the world is not perfect, nothing is perfect. If not for the Global Yankee police and it's band of allies, the world would be in terrible shape.

Hitler, Imperial Japan, Communism, Radicalism, Kosovo, Saddam, Gaddafi and the list will go on!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I have no problem with having American bases in Japan. The U.S. Navy and the Marines did a great job with the disaster following 3/11. I'm sure that changed some of the Japanese thinking on the issue.

Those of us living here need a big thank you to America for her great effort.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Tough talks? Does he has 'face' to talk soups to those families who lost their men or handicapped veterans? Obviously that wasnt something has to do with his job!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Thanks, zichi. I truly appreciated.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

wrt US bases I have no problems with the men/women in the various forces, with US politicians sometimes yes, but not the people on the ground so to speak, they all get my respect for starters then its theirs to keep or lose over time.

Thing is folks if the US left, something wud fill the gap, likely J-forces, but for how long, if the US left it wud be the beginning of the end of my presence here, point blank Japan just cant stand on its own feet.

While the US gets a lot of flack around the world you can bet pretty much EVERWHERE the yanks are that if they left, what replaces them will leave those places worse off. So like a few others I wud rather have a few US bases around than whatever alternative, it is that simple, John Lennon's ghost isnt going to come back & take care of things

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Sorry forgot to add a thanks to the yanks for hanging round!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

globalwatcher: "Talk is cheap, just do it all listed above. People like you needs a big ass kicked. I want you to see what's like to be in combat in fear, sweat, tears and killed. I bet you are the first one requesting a medical excuse from military duty. LOL"

It's interesting that you post such rubbish while calling another poster's comment 'disgrateful'. What's even MORE interesting is that you want Japan to become more and more like warring nations with a mandatory draft, while proclaiming how much better Japan is than other nations. Finally, and I have asked you before, where on earth would Japan get the money to invest in defense? As it is they don't have any money to cover the problems Japan has now, and they are going to raise taxes, so how can you justify increased spending?

Anyway, as other posters have said, the US is here to stay, so better make the best of it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I agreed, smithinjapan. I was just posting for people who are against the US troops to stay in Japan.

I was talking about the consequences Japan needs to pay if they do not want us to stay. I am on the same page as well as NetNinja and you. The US is here to stay. I am ALL for that. .

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What's with the fantasy that Japan doesn't pay virtually anything to the Americans for defense?

If there's anything Japan isn't giving enough to its American friends is Japanese criminal justice when they take the liberty to commit a crime on Japanese soil.

Anyhow Japan should feel secure with a foreign force that prides and honors itself with unit citations and warships named after people and exploits that served to vanquish her. Without them Japan would be speaking Chinese, yes for the Japanese people to master the language spoken by a superpower is bad. Even the mostly English-speaking Allied powers that ran the post-war occupation sought to force their native language onto Japanese society as a second language. If it was a such a terrible prospect for the common Japanese folk to be able to learn what goes on in life outside their isles back in 1947, it sure isn't now.

Therefore America protect Japan's enduring right to stay ignorant. For if it weren't for ignorance no people in their right mind would let some foreigners who nuked them park some 40,000 troops on their home soil.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

What's with the fantasy that Japan doesn't pay virtually anything to the Americans for defense?

If there's anything Japan isn't giving enough to its American friends is Japanese criminal justice when they take the liberty to commit a crime on Japanese soil.

Anyhow Japan should feel secure with a foreign force that prides and honors itself with unit citations and warships named after people and exploits that served to vanquish her. Without them Japan would be speaking Chinese, yes for the Japanese people to master the language spoken by a superpower is bad. Even the mostly English-speaking Allied powers that ran the post-war occupation sought NOT to force their native language onto Japanese society as a second language. If it was a such a terrible prospect for the common Japanese folk to be able to learn what goes on in life outside their isles back in 1947, it sure isn't now.

Therefore America protect Japan's enduring right to stay ignorant. For if it weren't for ignorance no people in their right mind would let some foreigners who nuked them park some 40,000 troops on their home soil.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The Japanese pay for everything on the bases except for the military salaries and personal effects. So the numbers are flawed.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

NeoJ

I kinda hear on the J-ignorance bit, but that has ZIP to do with the yanks but 100% to do with their own govt & media etc since 1945 onwards

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What's with the fantasy that Japan doesn't pay virtually anything to the Americans for defense?

Most Americans do not know this fact, and this needs to be clearly explained as Americans are pretty angry over defense spending.

If there's anything Japan isn't giving enough to its American friends is Japanese criminal justice when they take the liberty to commit a crime on Japanese soil.

NeoJ. To my understanding, the issue, a Japanese jurisdiction over US soldiers committing crimes, has been already addressed to Secretary of State Mrs. Clinton. The Japan/US Peace Treaty needs some modifications here. IMHO, both countries need to examine how these cases were handled in Germany and Italy for the same crimes.

Speaking about language issue, most Japanese public schools teach English as a primary foregin language. I also agree with you here. Many more foreign language option need to be given to kids in public schools, so that English language is not perceived as an oppressor's language.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Global

It is called the status of forces agreement.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

JapanGal, it is part of Japan/US Peace Treaty.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh boo hoo! Don’t like the big bad USA being in Japan or being a world power…tough! Get used to it boys, we are going to be a power for a very long time. In fact, I’ll go ahead and tell you that our being here has little to do with the war on terror, whatever that is, and everything to do with China. Japan makes for a nice permanently docked aircraft carrier. And you know why we will be here for a long long time, because the Japanese people support government after government that wants us here. Why? Because they know how bad China would treat Japan if the US was not here to stop them. The USA is so far from weak, bankrupt or reaching a point of falling it is funny that so many anti-Americans mistake such for our current problems. Our current issues are all very much solvable and you can all go to sleep a bit sounder tonight knowing that here are Japanese and American forces patrolling the skies of Japan and the Sea of Japan.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Status of Forces agreement between the US Govt. and the Japanese Govt. Each country that the US bases are in have one. Each is different.

Excellent notasap!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

An interesting and highly original view of history and world affairs, notasap. So let's get this straight: the US maintains bases in Japan because, in all its kindness and magnanimity, it's listening to the will of the Japanese populace, is that how it goes? Gosh, such altruism. Thanks for your deep insights.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

And while you're at it, notasap, perhaps you could explain to us unenlightened ones specifically what Japan would look like without US bases here. Would China invade and annex Japan? Just "how badly would China treat" Japan were it not for good old Uncle Sam?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

ben4 where did I say the US was doing anything out of magnanimity or kindness. This is Realpolitik. We are doing it because it benefits us and we know and the majority of Japanese know, a point you keep overlooking, that having China as the hegemon would be much worse than what they have now. Last time I looked around ben4 Japan seemed very free, first-world conditions and a very robust economy, despite the recent tragedies. The US has a right to be self-interested as any state does. In our self interest we have created a world that has help yield a fairly free and stable Japan. You seem to be casting the US as some sort of evil force for Japan, causing all sorts of problems for Japan. In fact I would say the US has been a very stable force for Japan and has allowed Japan to flourish after their defeat, something that China has never let any of the nations that it has conquered achieve. China has tried twice to invade Japan and after the war with so much of Chinese nationalism being built on the foundation of anti-Japanese hysteria I would easily invasion China being very aggressive towards Japan, to the point of invasion of some Japanese islands, say Okinawa. So there is your answer as to motive. Now I have one question for you. Why do you think you know better than the majority of Japanese citizens who are rational actors participating in a very stable representative democracy. Now think of how arrogant you feel the US is and mesh it with the fact that your view only possible via your own self-righteousness.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Love the royal WE notasap, should remove the "not" if you ask me. You talk as though you are part small minority that benifit from the perpetual agrression instead of being one of the duped american sheep that are being sent to die in foreign lands so the warmongering ruling elite can amass more wealth. I think you should watch less Fox news.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

the US maintains bases in Japan because, in all its kindness and magnanimity

ben, I am listing the security agreement between Japan and US. I was in Japan when the agreement was signed in Washington..

The earlier Security Treaty of 1951 provided the initial basis for the Japan's security relations with this United States. It was signed after Japan gained full sovereignty at the end of the allied occupation.

Bilateral talks on revising the 1951 security pact began in 1959, and the new Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security was signed in Washington on January 19, 1960.

Under the treaty, both parties assumed an obligation to maintain and develop their capacities to resist armed attack in common and to assist each other in case of armed attack on territories under Japanese administration. It was understood, however, that Japan could not come to the defense of the United States because it was constitutionally forbidden to send armed forces overseas (Article 9).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Check the haircuts boys

0 ( +0 / -0 )

notasap,

Thank you for offering your comments and considerations on this webpage about Japan. It is important for us to discuss issues such as these, but we must keep in mind that we are not the decision makers when it comes to such issues. We must defer to those who know what is best and have the best interest of the nation in mind. This is why it is correct for American soldiers, sailors and marines to be in Japan. China is a force that needs to be contained, with it's history of land grabs (Tibet, Taiwan, etc) and aggression. Thus we are able to offer our least import prefecture in economic terms to the people who are best able to defend us from the monsters in the region. I think this is an equal and fair exchange for our security. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and reading your carefully worded opinions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

well im an American & very Gald we are allies. & stationed in Japan it saved jp alot of money to do all kinds of Good things, BUT we should have less there at some point we will leave. we just need to let North Korea if they do anything stupid we will be there for Japan. with china becoming bigger military wise, Japan will also Build its military & start another arms race. Think of all the money would be saved IF there was NO threat from anywhere. I wouldn't call tibet a "landgrab" either, since its always been a part of china including maps from 4000 years ago.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BUT we should have less there at some point we will leave.

Ray, I agreed. Both countries cannot go on like this foever. Japan is still in denial.and wants to say in mother's womb. They need to face up to reality sooner or later.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Status of Forces agreement between the US Govt. and the Japanese Govt. Each country that the US bases are in have one. Each is different.

JapanGal, are you saying each country has a different version of Security Agreement that was signed in Washington in 1960? You have lost me here. Your feedback is highly appreciated on this matter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I was stationed in Okinawa for 2 years and was grateful to have been. As someone who has seen most of the world, there is no place I loved more than Japan, outside of America of course. Id love to say more about that, but ill stay on topic. Its sad to see that the bases will be closed, but I understand. Okinawans, loved the influx of cash and a few incidents aside, got along well with each other. It has to be regarded as the most successful occupation of all time and credit for it, is equally deserved. If some confused souls, usually from the left, say that isnt true, all one needs to do is look at Germany. At least 75% of ethnic Germans have some Red Army peasant scum, somewhere in the woodpile.

Id rather see Japan enlarge their military, but it isnt because of it being cheaper for us. I think war with China is unavoidable. The last thing America needs, is an asiatic version of lazy and gutless European hermafrodites as allies. Japan need not worry about anymore Obama cowardice. His chances of reelection are slim, no matter what you hear in the media.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

crazyhorse35Nov. 04, 2011 - 06:03AM JST. Id rather see Japan enlarge their military, but it isnt because of it being cheaper for us. I think war with China is unavoidable.

Many nations in China and Southeast Asia are very sensitive to Japanese actions. During WWII most of the area was occupied by the Japanese military, and the experience left many bitter memories. Japan has great economic influence and many nations in this area fear any sign of possibly resurgent Japanese nationalism and militarism. With the article 9, Japan's military cooperation with the U.S. can be a useful counter to Russian and Chinese forces, but only as long as the U.S. controls any Japanese tendency to use its influence on Southeast Asian nations. Japan already has one of the ten largest military budgets in the world. Greater military spending could make Japan a direct threat to other countries in the region, especially China. Any expansion of Japan's military role outside of Japanese territory should be avoided.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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