2 cabinet ministers plan Yasukuni visit

The yasukuni shrine is serving like the 'Ehrentemple' during the nazis-era Germany to honour those 16 thugs who were killed by police in the 'Beer hall pustch', and japan placing those 14 A class warcriminals and those 2 million casualties names is doing the same propaganda purposes to solidarity the paranoid populations for political purposes!

What ever happened to religious freedom?

Ossan: "So please prove your point by telling us when was the last time Russia complained about the Yasukuni Shrine?"

The point is that you were downplaying Japan's nationalism and said they don't destroy flags like China and Korea, and yet they do, clearly. It doesn't matter whether or not Russia has complained about Yasukuni in that regard -- you are flat out wrong about the nationalism. So go ahead and log in with your several accounts and thumb me down four times -- fact is you haven't proven a single thing you've said thusfar with any stats, and you were called on your flag comment. So, 'plewase' YOU get a clue!

If I had grandparents who were tricked into going to war in order to satisfy the ego of a couple of psychopaths, then I would be more than ticked off if someone enshrined them alongside the mass murderers who caused the war in the first place. Germans would riot on the streets if Hitler was enshrined with ordinary German soldiers who were merely following orders. Then we have Japan.......

no class whatsoever.

Having said all of that high ranking members of the government should not go there. If they want to go "as private citizens", they need to resign and become private citizens.

Sounds sensible to me. As for nationalists burning flags, the Japanese people I know aren't that dumb. The nutjobs who drive around in the black loudspeaker trucks and send bullets in the post to politicians, though? They're another matter.

smithinjapanAug. 12, 2012 - 02:29AM JST Ossan: "Thats not a South Korean or Chinese flag, Russia is irrelevant because they don't complain about the shrine." Ah, So suddenly your claims that Japan is not nationalistic don't factor in because it's inconvenient to your argument. >Convenient.

So please prove your point by telling us when was the last time Russia complained about the Yasukuni Shrine?

smithinjapanAug. 12, 2012 - 02:41AM JST Ossan: "Even if it is it's an internal domestic issue."

Yeah, announcing it to the media is suggesting they are doing it privately. I don't know a single idiot who would >actually believe that, even though I can barely understand what you said given your typos and errors...

Attacking typographoical errors rather than context has been considered a sign of immaturity and lack of net manners since the mid 1990s. Plewase get a clue.

not one -though I know some right wingers who gladly admit that acknowledge they would like to express the right->wing opinions you often vacillate on have, you know... when it suits you.

Also, name calling, rather than arguing the context is also considered immatute and poor manners.

I love the way they use the words "in a private capacity" when ministers visit this shrine every year.

We can't certainly rule out the application and relevance of this phrase/term for rituals and other acts that ministers take part in on regular basis. For example, I would certainly doubt that ministers make love to their spouses in a public capacity. Although, it might be in the interest of some members of the public such as Roman Catholics that their cabinet minister better not be using any contraceptives while doing it, the minister: he or she nonetheless has the implied license to practise whatever religion preferred during his or her tenure.

No doubt there are Koreans on the continent are already up in arms over these planned shrine visits. Among these Koreans, there's bound to be a few Roman Catholics as South Korea has a large Christian population, if they also learned about the sex lives of these ministers they might become even more upset. Just where do we draw the line and tell these people to MYOB?

Ossan: Still waiting for your proof, bud. You must be a Romney supporter or something. :)

Ossan: "Try reading all the other articles on JT smith."

Try providing proof to your false statements, OssanUltra... or is it OssanAmerica? I always forget when it was you had to change your name.

YuriOtani: "Having said all of that high ranking members of the government should not go there. If they want to go "as private citizens", they need to resign and become private citizens. Am looking over your message, am confused."

I agree with you 100% on this. The thing is, these two people announced, to the media, that they were going to visit. That is a political message sent at a time when the island disputes have been at their worst. If they wanted to go as private citizens, truly, they would never inform the media first. This is simply an attention getter given the recent reaction to Japan's increased bombast over the islands it claims are theirs. It's quite ridiculous.

smithinjapan, the government can not tell the private shrine what do do. It is that freedom of religion thingy. Once they do this they could start dictating to all. Shinto is no longer the state religion of Japan. I am Roman Catholic and it is wrong for me to dictate to others on what or how to believe. Having said all of that high ranking members of the government should not go there. If they want to go "as private citizens", they need to resign and become private citizens. Am looking over your message, am confused.

YuriOtani: "There are no war criminals there, the ashes of the war criminals were dumped in Tokyo bay. Only their names are written there and the "enshrinement" is a religious thing."

So how about removing the names from the shrine? Or urinating in Tokyo Bay, like so many old men do freely, in the name of the Emperor? Too much to ask? Japan is the only nation I know that honors people who killed millions and instead insists on peeing on the ashes of the public instead.

I don't know about the people who decide on a civil Sunday protest, but for me golden shower the kick in the teeth that follows is not an admittance that people are even paying attention, let alone listening.

Ossan: "Even if it is it's an internal domestic issue."

Yeah, announcing it to the media is suggesting they are doing it privately. I don't know a single idiot who would actually believe that, even though I can barely understand what you said given your typos and errors... not one -- though I know some right wingers who gladly admit that acknowledge they would like to express the right-wing opinions you often vacillate on have, you know... when it suits you.

YuriOtani: "Your post tells me it is hopeless to try and make up with China or Korea."

That's because you continue to blame everything and everyone on the problems of people in Okinawa on everything but themselves. They made their beds, they have to lie in them. Same as any idiot who denigrates the US military while KNOWING they need US support in these island disputes. Must hurt, eh?, Yuri? to demand the US leave on Tuesday but demand the protect you from Monday through to Sunday?

Jefflee:

" I think the Japanese people can honor the memory of their ancestors, what's wrong? "

They can and they should, but Yasukuni with its extremist ideological baggage is not an acceptable place. If these two went to the memorial at Chidorigafuji, there would not be an issue.

Ossan: "Thats not a South Korean or Chinese flag, Russia is irrelevant because they don't complain about the shrine."

Ah, So suddenly your claims that Japan is not nationalistic don't factor in because it's inconvenient to your argument. Convenient.

Probably alot more than 14 war criminals there, just like Arlington.

That's the twisted genius of it. If the war criminals' enshrinement serves to reinforce the idea that in fact they did not do anything wrong and were victims of victors' justice, this surely means the servicemen who were "just following orders" couldn't have been doing anything wrong either. Innocence by association. The right-wing establishment, i.e. war criminals themselves whom the US deemed politically expedient to release and allow back into high office, and their friends at Yasukuni Shrine have ensured that no one needs to worry about what their dear old grandpa was getting up to in China in 1937, because it couldn't possibly be anything bad. Forget the truth, what all those elderly voters with relatives enshrined at Yasukuni would like to believe is far preferable.

Also, why do they announce plans to visit the shrine before they go if not for the publicity

Exactly - it's not like they announce to the media anything else they do in a "private" capacity. Well, there's probably an election coming up soon and no doubt they're very scared of losing their Diet seats. There aren't many better opportunities to try and swing some right-wing ultranationalist nutcase votes their way.

realist, you must believe in that religion. To me as a Christian it means nothing. It is a place to remember the war dead and again it is a private place. Your post tells me it is hopeless to try and make up with China or Korea. We could do everything you demand and it will never be enough.

I was excited a few years ago when the DPJ got elected to political power and kicked out the LDP. However, they have now proved, especially by this decision by two of its ministers, that there is no difference between the political parties here. Yasukuni Jinja is a place where war criminals are enshrined.It symbolises the sad political/religious past of Japan before and during the Second World War. Although they say they are "honouring the war dead" we all know their real motives. People go there must know that they are honouring the dead war criminals who paid the price for their war crimes and sins. It's so sickening. No real apologies or compensation has ever been issued to the Korean and Chinese Women Sex Slaves, to the people of Korea for all the evil that was inflicted upon them, no proper apologies have ever been given to the residents of Nanking or China for the hundreds of thousands who were brutally murdered and raped at the behest of the Yasukuni Criminals, rather some of these politicians try to airbrush historical facts about these atrocities. No apologies or compensation has been offered to the relatives of the human beings brutally and shamefully subjected to inhuman medical experiments and torture on the orders of the Yasukuni War Criminals either.

In spite of all this, the two DPJ ministers are to visit Yasukuni. It is 2012, yet these politicians are living in the Dark Ages of Japan's shameful past. While these politicians remain in power, Japan is doomed. Small wonder that Japan's youth have so little interest in politics.

There are no war criminals there, the ashes of the war criminals were dumped in Tokyo bay. Only their names are written there and the "enshrinement" is a religious thing.

Probably alot more than 14 war criminals there, just like Arlington. They just got away with it. Don't denegrate the memory of millions of patriots from any country on account of them. Also, why do they announce plans to visit the shrine before they go if not for the publicity

Who calls them war criminals? Not the Japanese! They were brave leaders of Japan who tried to expand Japan's horizon.

They allied with Hitler, caused us to waste lives and resources that should have been dedicated to dealing with the Nazis in Europe, and had any Japanese people who disagreed with them arrested, tortured and murdered. I call them the human equivalent of the ebola virus.

I knew I would get voted down. But historical records back me up.

Check them for yourself.

Who calls them war criminals? Not the Japanese! They were brave leaders of Japan who tried to expand Japan's horizon.

Yes and that's because they're idiots.

As was said if the USA lost WWII, they would have been tried for war crimes. How many Soldiers are buried at Arlington that fall under the category of having committed war crimes? My Lai and the other 3 villages, etc, etc.

None? Don't think so.

So go to another cemetery where your family members isn't.

I think the Japanese people have every right to honor their ear dead in a manner they choose. I don't think the average Japanese soldier or sailor was very much different than their counterparts. However, their leadership made a series of decisions that led to a war which Japan had no hope of winning. The result of these decisions was the suffering of the average Japanese civilian. Furthermore, it can be argued that the United States committed a crime on August 6th and 9th, BUT I wonder if Japan would have emerged in it's present form had an invasion taken place that was estimated to cause the deaths of upwards of 25 million, mostly civilians. Japan is a great country...beautiful people and culture. I was norn there and later stationed there...remembering and honoring those DESERVING respect is the Japanese thing to do. The "14" in my eyes perverted the warrior code to use it in making aggressive war on their neighbors and not "to serve" as true Samurai. They were self-serving cowards. Not worthy of being enshrined with the warriors that died serving their country...an honorable thing to recognize in Yasukuni as much as Arlington.

The issue remains that Japanese believe they can control spirits (???!?!?!) and thus can't be bothered to pray somewhere else that isn't tainted by war criminals thus causing the impression that they are praying to war criminals. Just pray at another shrine. Problem solved.

Who calls them war criminals? Not the Japanese! They were brave leaders of Japan who tried to expand Japan's horizon. US President Truman gave the order to drop an atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima in August 1945. Japan's best friend US will never call him war criminal for it, will they?? Besides, People go to the temple, not to any particular grave. So Hwangs and Lees....get a grip.

smithinjapanAug. 11, 2012 - 12:33PM JST Ossan: "Sure they are. You can't answer them." Speaking of which... ahem... your proof?

Try reading all the other articles on JT smith. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the effects that Natoionaklisam in China and in South Korea are affecting relations in East Asia. Today and in a real way. I'm sure even you could do this.

smithinjapanAug. 11, 2012 - 09:18AM JST "Ossan: "Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea."

It's not 'far greater' by any means, though at times it can be more subdued.

No it's far greater.In the case of South Korea it's enough to cause headaches for the United States which ny treatry is obligated to protect bboth countries. In the case of China, well, it'sd enough for all of ASEAN to make ita major issue and direct US strategic policy in Asia. Japanese nationalisam, is a joke, a bunch of losers in black trucks? Some 90 year olds wobbling in their old uniforms? Yea a real threat to peace ad security of the region.

"When the last time you saw a picyure of Japanese people burning he Chinese or South Korean flag?"

How about a Russian flag?

Thats not a South Korean or Chinese flag, Russia is irrelevant because they don't complain about the shrine.

"...how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?"

It is a political statement,

Even if it is it's an internal domestic issue.

Japanese politicians go to Yaskuni every year, and every year we hear the same idle talk about what an offense it is. Japan, you are talking about Japan. Have you not bothered to read through their MEXT approved history books or visit their historical museums littered throughout Tokyo? Fictional hitory some say, but every country has that.

@issa1AUG. 11, 2012 - 08:25AM JST I think the Japanese people can honor the memory of their ancestors, what's wrong ?

Yes we can honor our ancestors, those who are honorable but not those involved in killing masses of people. It sends a wrong message to honor serial killers, rapist, criminals against humanity & etc.

@OssanAmericaAUG. 11, 2012 - 07:05AM JST Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea. And pose a far greater hindrance to peace in East Asia. Butas always these two will be whining about this the most.

You are so wrong, the Chinese only care about capitalism.... since the Americans converted to socialism post 2008.

Thomas-san,

When 80% of the population hate China, I am not so sure.

I wonder which population you are talking about? The US population?

It's certainly not the Japanese population. "Hate" is not a common Japanese emotion, sadly, apathy is more common. I am not saying hate doesn't exist here, it certainly does, but I doubt that 80% of Japanese "hate" anything.

Class A convicts mean that they were judged guilty for waging a war of aggression (the crime against peace). However it was questioned at the Tokyo Trial whether the war court had the jurisdiction to judge on the crime against peace. Could they judge by an ex post fact law? The judges were divided over the question. The presiding judge Webb from Australia thought that the war court had no jurisdiction to do it though he was in the minority group (four out of eleven) together with other judges from India, the Netherlands and France. And Judge Webb also thought that those Class A convicts should not be sentenced to death because the emperor himself (the head of the state and supreme commander) was not even indicted. (I concur with him.) Three other judges from India, France and even the Soviet Union also opposed to the death sentence to the convicts. If so, the routine ritual of much fuming at this time of the year might be given a little pause.

Using YOUR logic here then, please explain why then Yasukuni will not inter any member of the JSDF who died on duty

That would the thinking of the operators of Yasukuni, and I will not glorify it by calling logic. Nothing to do with me, and there are than two sides to this issue, the operators of Yasukuni being on the jackass side which neither of us belong to...I think.

Geez by your definition even the Vatican could fit your definition I suppose.

Does the Vatican employ Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution?

No, I do not begrudge the Japanese a Self Defense Force. I just call a spade a spade. They are breaking their own constitution. I would gladly support an amendment to legitimize the SDF clearly, but until that comes, they are violating the constitution.

In the underhanded search for legal loopholes, the SDF is called a branch of the national police force. Its obvious backhanded insanity. What police force has jet fighters and tanks? They need those to police Japan? Its just the Japanese being sneaky, and it does not foster trust, sorry. If they do that and we all know full well that the SDF can be converted to an attack force practically overnight.

There is no need to be dishonest here. They just need to change the constitution. However, I dont trust the current government to do it right.

.

Very different rules govern what they can do.

Rules are words on paper. Words on paper that government visitors to Yasukuni seem hot to change. I dont think all the Japanese government should be mixed with those IJA loving warhead numbskulls, but its not a surprise that other countries would choose to focus on another countries imperialist monkeys, especially when their grandparents were raped and murdered by that country previously.

I'm probably explaining this terribly but I'll try my best, so please don't hate and be open minded :) I grew up in the US, being taught that the Japanese were evil for bombing Pearl Harbor and dropping atomic bombs and killing millions of innocent lives was the only way to force the Japanese to surrender. I was also taught that going to Yasukuni was like praising the soldiers of Japan who are considered "criminals". However I have always been interested in what the normal Japanese soldiers (not the leaders) were thinking of the war since most of them were young men who were forced to fight like any other young men with families and friends and actual lives.

This is a documentary film describing "the modern history of Japan from the Meiji Restoration to the Greater East Asian War (WWII)". It is an hour long but it is really worth watching. <>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYvXTLEgKS4<>

Also, after Clint Eastwood made "Letters From Iwo Jima" he says: "War is a foolish event that steals the futures of the youth. However, we must honor and never forget the people who sacrificed their lives to guard their family and other special things. That is what I want to inform the people in this world."

Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea.

When 80% of the population hate China, I am not so sure.

Yubaru,

I think you are giving WAY too much credit to yaskuni LOL!

The place is certainly NOT known for common sense, consistancy or anything, yasukuni not itering JSDF doesnt mean much of anything!

A self defense force has war potential. It might help for you to read Article 9 before you declare Japan obeys it.

Using YOUR logic here then, please explain why then Yasukuni will not inter any member of the JSDF who died on duty.

If they, (JSDF) were military Yasukuni officials would inter the deceased, even those who died in training accidents as they did with the Japanese Imperial Military up until the end of WWII.

Any idiot would say that if a country has weapons of war then they are a military. Geez by your definition even the Vatican could fit your definition I suppose. It's the rules that govern them that matter and one could argue that the JSDF is a DEFACTO armed force, they are referred to as a Self Defense Force, HUGE difference.

Nothing against the constitution there.

Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea. And pose a far greater hindrance to peace in East Asia. Butas always these two will be whining about this the most.

Ossan,

Perhaps true, but have you ever wondered why China & Korea are like that???

Hint, a lot of it is because of a certain country that wont acknowledge its own history, its politicians consistantly worship war criminals, I wonder if you can name the country I am refering to???

vg866: "And why is it that any opinion that does not conform the radical right wingers are instantly down voted on this site? I see this all the time now"

Basically it's one or people who disagree, but when you erase the cookie for this site you can sometimes vote again. Or they have multiple accounts, log in, and vote you down on ALL your posts because they're upset you disagreed. But when was right-winging every logical? Consider those negative votes proof that you've irked them and they cannot retort.

I agree with what you said about Yasukuni, as well. They could easily remove the names -- they just don't want to.

Denon.

You understand the difference between an army and a self-defense force? Israel has no army but a Self Defense Force as do many other countries now.

Very different rules govern what they can do.

Japan does not have a military, it's a self defense force only.

A self defense force has war potential. It might help for you to read Article 9 before you declare Japan obeys it.

And if you think a self defense force is not a kind of military, well I cannot counter that without completely insulting you. You seriously think all those tanks, missiles, guns, helicopter gunships, battleships, aircraft carriers and jet fighters are not a simple Diet vote away from being labeled an army, navy and air force? Are you seriously going to argue with me that a stroke of the pen and the choice of a word makes all the difference?

Yaskuni shrine is a sacred place for the Japanese people and all must respect this tradition.

Well done. You're parroting what right-wing politicians would like everyone to think very well.

vg866.

A few problems there.

1.: The war A criminals were enshrined illegally. 2.: The Shrine refuses to remover them(right-wing owned) 3.: Japan practices separation of church and state, so the government can't force the shrine to remove them. They been asking for years though.

It is a complex issue and until the shrine gives in ........

Losers are always wrong. They might have become heroes.

Why not pray at a different shrine? Why not remove all warcriminals from the shrine? Why not make the shrine completely neutral? I thought shrines were supposed to spiritual rather than political.

I've heard the excuses before. They claim that once interred, you cannot remove the spirits floating about within the shrine(LOL). Its impossible because their backward religious belief claims so. If thats the case then remove all references and monuments to the warcriminals and let their spirits roam about in your fairytale minds. The rest of asia could care less about their make believe spirits.

Oh well, this doesn't really bother Korea or China. Koreans have possession a thriving economy, a healthy tech industry and possession of Dokdo while China is on the road to superpowerdom. Meawhile, Japan continues to slide downward thanks to the dinosaurs who run the country.

Why not praying at the shrine and saying clearly, not accepting the war criminals there and that the one who prays leaving them out in the prayers and also saying to be ashamed that the war criminals are enshrined there. THEN praying at the yasukunishrine will be a great gesture...

Any politician that tells you they are visiting anywhere as a "private citizen" is handing you a line of BS. Politicians who knowingly go to Yasukuni on or around August 15th know fully well that their actions will be viewed as a political gesture.

The national government has to put this one to rest. Build a separate secular shrine honoring the victims from all sides.

Oh and @Denon, if Japan had a military not a Self-Defense force the authorities as Yasukuni would inter anyone who died in the line of duty, accidents or otherwise, as Yasukuni did with the Imperial Japanese Military.

Yasukuni will NOT inter any member of the JSDF if they died on duty, BECAUSE they are NOT a military.

Sort of strange to say that since the Japanese are in gross violation of Article 9 by maintaining a military.

Japan does not have a military, it's a self defense force only. I suppose you would begrudge them having that either huh?

The proof is in the Japanese constitution Article 9.

Sort of strange to say that since the Japanese are in gross violation of Article 9 by maintaining a military. Article specifically prohibits holding any war potential. How much can you trust someone that violates their own constitution?

Ossan: "Sure they are. You can't answer them."

Speaking of which... ahem... your proof?

Visiting these shrines "in a personal capacity" by politicians is just a cowards way of keeping the ageing populations vote.

And of course, the same conclusion if there has been a strong decline as of 1978 (sorry I have been bit too fast in speculating increase or stable as the only possibilities).

If the one thumbing me down could answer my question it would be highly appreciated.

My point is if attendance has been stable YOY, I think there is too much noise about this shrine visitors. However if there is a clear peak as of 1978, we can honestly conclude that the incremental visitors are making a political act when going there.

Question: are there more visitors to this shrine since 1978, the year of enshrinement of these 14 Class-A war criminals? At least I understand the past emperor stopped visiting it as of that year.

Jin Matsubara, the minister charged with dealing with the issue of Japanese kidnapped by North Korean agents, also confirmed he was mulling a visit.

What a smartarsed move by a guy who is supposed to be dealing with people in Korea. Nothing better than to slap you counterparts in the face and expect them to cooperate with you.

the fact that they announced their visit to the media beforehand is proof that they want to incite conflict overseas . Japan is just as nationalistic as Korea and Japan.

sfjp330Aug. 11, 2012 - 09:31AM JST "OssanAmerica Aug. 11, 2012 - 08:57AM JST. LOL. Nobody "prays for the war criminals". They pray for all the dead some 6 million plus I think. Covering many wars from the late 1800s. And more importantly, how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?"

Ossanjapan....The arguments you are presenting your viewpoint are certainly not getting any better.

Sure they are. You can't answer them.

In fact, not only are they getting worse, but they also betray your lack of respect for people.

Lack of respect for people? The vast majority of people gfo to the Shrineand pray for peace and that ther will never again be anything as horrible as war. They don't go to "worship war criminals". JAs I've strated, Japan's constutution backs this up. Yet you want to dismiss every person who prays there as some kind of evil nationalist nutcase. No, I think you are the one not showing respect for people.

No business to other countries? These were and are war criminals,

14 or so out of 6 million or so? And you want to convince me that this is a shrine dedicated to "war criminals"?

That this affects other nations suggests that the Japanese ought to take into consideration their actions on others, >too. This is not simply a domestic matter.

As others have pointed out every country has a right to honor their war dead. Doing so doesn't cause harm to anyone or any other country. This is a domestic matter and no country would allow other countries to dicatate what should or should not be done. In fact, other countries complaining about it will only harden their position. This is normal human nature. Why you should expect Japan to be any different is beyond me.

Looks like the thumbs down crew has appeared!

Ossan: Do you, or do you not, have any proof to your claims?

Yes...Enraging China/Korea by visiting a temple....if they want to poke us by going to the disputed island, we can do the same by just taking a taxi ride.

I've always refused to visit, but a friend who did said there's no pretense to the museum exhibit that plays up the victim card from Japan's point of view. And there's no doubt that Yasukuni isn't only a innocent shrine to pray for souls .It's a shrine designed to make a political statement.

@ Ossan any links or proof? opinions mean nothing even to the lean.

Proposals to create a secular monument that doesn't glorify war have been proposed over the years, only to be shot down by the Bereaved Families Assoc. and the politicians. THAT is the issue.

Somehow I find myself certain that if politicians weren't eager to court elderly conservative voters and donors in over-represented rural areas, there would be no question of any of them visiting Yasukuni.

@OssanAmerica LOL. Nobody "prays for the war criminals". They pray for all the dead some 6 million plus I think. Covering many wars from the late 1800s. And more importantly, how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?

If politicians went to Yasukuni in jeans and a t-shirt without announcing their visit to the media beforehand, their praying to whoever would be absolutely fine.

@JeffLee sums up the issue nicely in his comments.

OssanAmerica Aug. 11, 2012 - 08:57AM JST. LOL. Nobody "prays for the war criminals". They pray for all the dead some 6 million plus I think. Covering many wars from the late 1800s. And more importantly, how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?

Ossanjapan....The arguments you are presenting your viewpoint are certainly not getting any better. In fact, not only are they getting worse, but they also betray your lack of respect for people. No business to other countries? These were and are war criminals, people who have knowingly committed horrendous deeds to individuals in neighboring countries. Even PM Koizumi knews this, yet he still visited the shrine, and even today, these J-goverment reps are still doing the same thing. In fact, all of these goverment reps has the knowledge that what they are doing is angering other countries. Is it really to the benefit of Japan that they pushing Japan farther and farther away from others? That Japanese culture treats all dead as innocent does not mean everyone else should follow that same mindset. That this affects other nations suggests that the Japanese ought to take into consideration their actions on others, too. This is not simply a domestic matter.

Yaskuni shrine is a sacred place for the Japanese people

There are millions of "sacred places" in Japan. If a place that glorifies mass aggression toward foreigners is "sacred to the Japanese people," then the Japanese people view such aggression as being a sacred mission.

If that is the case, then it is natural for Japan's victims to become angry.

Wonder if Gemba will have trouble understanding why leaders of other nations are stepping up their rhetoric as well and going to visit the disputed islands?

Ossan: "Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea."

It's not 'far greater' by any means, though at times it can be more subdued.

"When the last time you saw a picyure of Japanese people burning he Chinese or South Korean flag?"

How about a Russian flag? Wasn't it only last year they stomped all over one and dragged it down the street in front of the Russian embassy after Medvedev visited the Kuriles? Nationalism and ignorance (usually go hand in hand) are just as strong here as anywhere else, as is the brainwashing.

"...how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?"

It is a political statement, since they go in and sign on the job, and in part done SPECIFICALLY as a political statement (else why not go and sign off the clock and not under one's job title?), and inflames relations -- they absolutely know that, and hence when a politician wisely decides not to go in consideration of history and other nations, they are chided by radicals as kow-towing to China and the Koreas, etc. It's a threat to stability, any way you slice it, and pretty much the only threats Japan can make (save calling in ambassadors to say "It's extremely regrettable!").

sfjp330Aug. 11, 2012 - 07:28AM JST

"OssanAmericaAug. 11, 2012 - 07:05AM JST Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea. And pose a far greater hindrance to peace in East Asia. Bu tas always these two will be whining about this the most. "

But Japan is not far behind.

Nonsense. Article 9 of the J-constitution prohibits the use of military force to resolve diplomatic conflicts. Compare that to Soth Korea's unilateral occupation of Takeshima/Dokdo or China's continuous forays into the Senkaku waters.

Like last year, when you have over 50 J-goverment officials visiting and praying for 14 class A war criminals,

LOL. Nobody "prays for the war criminals". They pray for all the dead some 6 million plus I think. Covering many wars from the late 1800s. And more importantly, how is praying at a shrine a threat to anybody?

Consume my painAug. 11, 2012 - 07:08AM JST @Ossan Any links to prove that or is that your opinion?

When the last time you saw a picyure of Japanese people burning he Chinese or South Korean flag? The proof is in the Japanese constitution Article 9.

Yaskuni shrine is a sacred place for the Japanese people and all must respect this tradition.

No matter how much it provokes the anger of certain groups nikkyoso-hanniti.

I think the Japanese people can honor the memory of their ancestors, what's wrong?

I agree. And they can, and they do. And no one complains about that. The issue is Yasukuni. The Shinto shrine not only glorifies Japan's aggression, but the people who launched a war that killed 10 million people are enshrined there. It's like the Germans enshrining Hitler.

Proposals to create a secular monument that doesn't glorify war have been proposed over the years, only to be shot down by the Bereaved Families Assoc. and the politicians. THAT is the issue.

I think the Japanese people can honor the memory of their ancestors, what's wrong ?

why don't the japanese self-defense force take action on the south korea's unprovoked attack on the japanese sovereign territory? it would send a clearer message to those pesky south koreans than the bi-annual ritual of chest-thumping at yasukuni

@sastroboy - Agree...apart from the 'nobody will complain' and 'heard from the sky' part.

@sfjp330 - Agree. I'd expect Noda's cabinet ministers to respect the wishes of their boss. It could be worse: Noda could be asking for details on their tattoos as well, a la Hashimoto down there in Osaka. Gvmt ministers taunting foreign neighbours is just another form of political posturing when they should be focussing on the far more pressing issues in Japan.

Hey you two.. If you want to pray, come to Mosque and I can guarantee 100% that no body will complaint and the your wish will directly heard from the sky. Don't go pray for the death in there, they are too many and it's not good for you.

I sure would like to know whether the two ministers consider the "14" as war criminals or manes. I love the way they use the words "in a private capacity" when ministers visit this shrine every year.

OssanAmericaAug. 11, 2012 - 07:05AM JST Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea. And pose a far greater hindrance to peace in East Asia. Butas always these two will be whining about this the most.

But Japan is not far behind. Like last year, when you have over 50 J-goverment officials visiting and praying for 14 class A war criminals, it does not help to improve relationship with China and Korea. These elected officials are doing the same thing every year. Apologies don't mean anything when your elected officials still go to Yasukuni to pray for their buddy Tojo and JIA. Japan cannot make small steps forward like what Germany did. If Noda has any guts, he should demand that no J-goverment representative will go to Yasukuni, or your fired.

@Ossan

Any links to prove that or is that your opinion?

Nationalism is far far greater in China and South Korea. And pose a far greater hindrance to peace in East Asia. Butas always these two will be whining about this the most.

Let the childish games begin!!****

But we already apologized......

Typical right wing excuse.