politics

2 cabinet ministers visit Yasukuni Shrine

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Who cares? Stop telling us every time somebody goes there.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Who cares? Stop telling us every time somebody goes there.

Nah, publicize it as much as possible, all over the world. This is the Japanese equivalent of Holocaust Denial, a deliberate insult to neighbouring countries and a two-fingered salute to global society.

They should be named and shamed, every time.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

If they go as private citizens, then no one has a right to complain. BUT...if they are going as gov't representatives or if they are on the clock when they go, that is a problem.

Does Japan have laws regarding separation of state and religion?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@no1samurai

They might not be on the clock, but it's definitely political. You simply have not been in Japan long enough or don't know enough about the shrine's background if you believe otherwise.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This is the Japanese equivalent of Holocaust Denial, a deliberate insult to neighbouring countries and a two-fingered salute to global society.

What is it that Japan is denying exactly?

No-ones business if they go or not. The Chinese are like a broken record, give it rest and mind your own business

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Just a user

What is it that Japan is denying exactly?

That they invaded and brutalized their neighbors for any reason other than rescuing them from Western imperialism.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

That they invaded and brutalized their neighbors for any reason other than rescuing them from Western imperialism.

and two people going to Yaskuni means that?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Look up the history of the shrine and who runs it.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

MrBumOCT. 20, 2016 - 10:04AM JST

Look up the history of the shrine and who runs it.

Seriously, who runs it?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Takaichi Sanae - is that the woman with awful brown rotting teeth?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

MrBum: Look up the history of the shrine and who runs it.

The Allied occupation had considered replacing it with a dog track, but decided that "honoring their war dead is the right and duty of citizens everywhere".

So, 70 years later, what happened to that "right and duty"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine

... Yasukuni Shrine has been privately funded and operated since 1946, when it was elected to become an individual religious corporation independent of the Association of Shinto Shrines. The GHQ planned to burn down the Yasukuni Shrine and build a dog race course in its place. However, Father Bruno Bitter of the Roman Curia and Father Patrick Byrne of Maryknoll insisted to GHQ that honoring their war dead is the right and duty of citizens everywhere, and GHQ decided not to destroy the Yasukuni shrine.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Visiting Yasukuni and pray for the war dead is no way equivalent to denying Halocaust. Stop ridiculous metaphor.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Seriously, who runs it?

"Run" might be the wrong word, but look up Izokukai and it's connection to the Shrine and the LDP. Regardless, of what you and I may believe, Yasukuni has become a symbol of ultra-nationalism (and revisionism) in Japan, and visits by politicians are either endorsements of that revisionism or political statements to appease their right-wing constituents.

Want proof? When Murayama made his statement apologizing for the suffering Japan caused it's neighbors in the past, what did his right-wing opposition do? Immediately make a visit to Yasukuni. And no, they didn't get a sudden urge to pray to their ancestors.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

MrBumOCT. 20, 2016 - 11:41AM JST

Seriously, who runs it?

"Run" might be the wrong word, but look up Izokukai and it's connection to the Shrine and the LDP.

Izokukai means "association of surviving families", and it is an association of widows, children who lost their fathers and parents who lost their sons in the wars after Meiji restoration. What is so wrong with Izokukai's involvement in the shrine that honors soldiers who were killed in the wars?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

What is so wrong with Izokukai's involvement in the shrine that honors soldiers who were killed in the wars?

Izokukai's started out as association of widows, children who lost their fathers and parents who lost their sons like you said and ending warfare and promoting peace was included as part of their main purpose. Their purpose changed sometime in the 1950s to exclude the pacifism part and add focus to praising eirei, spirits of heroes who died in the war. It was after this change that a convicted class A war criminal and influential member of the LDP became head of Izokukai, and it was soon after that that the class A war criminals were enshrined at Yasukuni.

But really just look at the people who chose to worship there. Abe sends his wife and gifts, but his LDP cronies all flock there annually or whenever a conciliatory gesture is made toward Japan's past victims. We know what they think about Japan's wartime actions from their numerous comments in the past. The shrine's one-sided view of history is obvious enough to the black vans and nuts who go there dressed in soldier uniforms. What is it you're missing?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

MrBumOCT. 20, 2016 - 02:57PM JST

What is it you're missing?

Your answer is what I am missing.

You started the discussion by saying "Look up the history of the shrine and who runs it." You argued, without showing any evidence, that "Association of Surviving Families" runs it, as if it were a heinous thing. You argued that a famous politician is the chairman of the association. I do not see what is wrong with it. You argued class A war criminals were enshrined after the politician became the chairman. But you failed to show if there is any link between the chairman and the enshrinement. The prevailing view in Japan is that Yasukuni's head priest Matsudaira Nagayoshi enshrined them without consulting others and, as a result, infuriated Emperor Showa, who refused to visit Yasukuni ever after.

Now, you say,

But really just look at the people who chose to worship there.

Which do I need to look at, those who run the shrine or those who visit there? If you actually go there, you can still see many of very old surviving families of fallen soldiers.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@CH3CHO

I'm pretty sure I answered your question, though maybe not to your pedantic standards. Yasukuni, those involved with it, and the politicians and nationalists that visit it clearly have view of Japan's wartime history that doesn't match the internationally accepted truth. I don't have any evidence other than their publicly made comments and opinions.

Also, I'm not implying that all visitors are nationalists. Some of them don't know or care about what the shrine symbolizes, and no one is complaining about that.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I visited the urinal twice today,why didn't that make the news??

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Their purpose changed sometime in the 1950s to exclude the pacifism part and add focus to praising eirei, spirits of heroes who died in the war. It was after this change that a convicted class A war criminal and influential member of the LDP became head of Izokukai, and it was soon after that that the class A war criminals were enshrined at Yasukuni.

Sad that it became corrupted. Anyway no need to honor the wicked now.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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