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63% say Japan should stop apologizing over war: poll

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The question is not stopping apologizing. The question is stopping rescinding all the apologies already made. THATS why they have to keep coming back and apologizing again.

28 ( +44 / -17 )

Since this "poll" was conducted by Yomiuri, a "right" newspaper, I would take these results with a grain or two of salt.

28 ( +35 / -7 )

I'm far left, but I am starting to think we should stop apologizing. We have apologized dozens of times (there is a list of all apologies at Wikipedia in English, Japanese, and Chinese), and they have no effect but aggravating relations. Considering the flood of Chinese and Korean tourists in Japan, nobody is paying attention anyway, except maybe for nationalist patriotic groups that need the friction to take in lots of money. I think that rejections of our apologies as not sincere are not sincere.

11 ( +23 / -12 )

They should be asking about how much these 2nd and 3rd generation folks actually know about just what the apologies are all about. Odds are they know very little, hence the high percentage that think that the apologizes should stop.

As I have often said, no apology means anything if the actions that follow the apology go against what it was all about in the first place.

Educate these younger generations about their history, THEN ask them again about the apologizing.

33 ( +48 / -15 )

Spot on Yubaru! If I didn't know the truth then I would feel the same way as these young Japanese do.

15 ( +25 / -10 )

Why aren't the leaders of Korea, China and even the US described as "nationalistic?" They are no less "nationalistic" as Abe.

When will the Chinese government apologize to the Chinese people for killing over 40 million of them?

When will my ex-wife apologize?

When will poster (fil in the name) apologize for boring the crap out of us with relentlessly insignificant posts?

-9 ( +24 / -32 )

NathalieBAug. 20, 2015 - 06:46AM JST The question is not stopping apologizing. The question is stopping rescinding all the apologies

Rescinded? Please tell us which PM "rescinded" a previous apology. Even Abe just reaffirmed all past apologies.

4 ( +19 / -15 )

Is there an official statute of limitations before past atrocities pass into impersonal history? However horrible it was, it happened, and nothing can make it unhappen. At any rate, people shouldn't be expected to apologize for the actions of their ancestors, or for something that happened decades before they were born.

17 ( +25 / -8 )

And here is the result of whitewashed textbooks

12 ( +27 / -15 )

About the poll. Hypothetical here. I wonder what this same group of 63% would have to say after repeated American apologies for dropping the bombs ?? I'm willing to bet no number of apologies would ever be enough. And you know why? It's simple. Everybody wants to be a victim.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

When will the Chinese government apologize to the Chinese people for killing over 40 million of them? When will my ex-wife apologize? When will poster (fil in the name) apologize for boring the crap out of us with relentlessly insignificant posts?

Are you Japanese perhaps? This is the typical response a Japanese person will make when faced with a question about an issue that makes "Japan" look bad. Obfuscate and make comparisons, or deflect the inquiry to point out some other "fault" with someone or something somewhere else.

It is next to impossible to stay focused on ONE issue alone because of it, and until all other issues are settled THIS issue will continue to burn in the background.

But to many Japanese, once the issues are cloudy enough there is a collective hope and desire for it to just go away. Not dealing with a problem and ignoring it are ways to deal with something here. Illogical to many, but the reality.

Not dealing with an issue is one way for it to disappear, but since China and Korea (for the most part) wont let the Japanese forget (which they collectively WANT to do, hence part of the reason for no education about the topic) it continues on.

Collectively Japan wants to "move on", as a people they do NOT want to face up to their history, it was bad enough that they had to admit to defeat. (Which to assuage the "collective" Abe's desire to white-wash history) they are not very good at admitting to anything "wrong". And all that "bowing" and "sumimasen-ing" are for show and not from the heart.

18 ( +31 / -13 )

Some key reasons some people think Japan needs to keep apologizing are that past apologies were not really viewed as sincere since the country did not have a deep reflection and discussion after the war (compare with Germany), new historical information has come to light about abuses and these have not been apologized for (the case of forced prostitution) and, as Yubaru points out above, actions have contradicted the apologies (nationalist rhetoric, the text-book issue, efforts to change the constitution, changes to weapon sales regulations, financial involvement in overseas wars, etc.).

These reasons point to a question of sincerity and trust of the nation-state of Japan. Of course we shouldn't grant this lightly or at all, but can we really trust any nation-state? Nation-states are founded and run by the wealthy and powerful in their own interests--maintaining power and increasing wealth. They only apologize, when necessary, to further these interests. To keep them in check, citizens of all nation-states should constantly hold them accountable for their actions and abuses, past, present and future. To have them apologize means we don't let them forget. Yet the hard work is making sure they don't continue to exploit, dominate and abuse.

15 ( +21 / -6 )

The question is not stopping apologizing. The question is stopping rescinding all the apologies already made. THATS why they have to keep coming back and apologizing again.

@NathalieB

Good comment. The notion that Japan needs to repeatedly apologize is a deliberate and egregious red herring used by those who aim to whitewash the past. It is only when a high-ranking politician denies past atrocities, talks about revising past statements or makes moves to water down textbook content on the war that voices grow louder for Japanese leaders to reiterate apologies.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

PM Abe repeatedly expressed ''profound remorse'' over the WWII even in the amazing speeches at the U.S. Congress and the Australian parliament. How can you conveniently forget that?

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Agree with warispeace here. I think there's a very good argument that successive Japanese governments have failed to genuinely display contrition in their "apologies". Some individuals have for sure but "regret" is not the same as "sorry" and the Japanese know that. Too much pride, usually nationalistic, has gotten in the way. Of course there's regret. They lost! Millions of Japanese died, the nation was decimated but above all their precious pride was severely dented. It's beneath the likes of Abe to apologise contritely. To do so would be an insult to his grandfather Kichi and his right-wing constituents.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Japan acknowledging its past atrocities doesn't weaken it, transparency would make it more like other democracies in the world. Instead, Japan is only making themselves look more like China. Though Japan may have forgotten, the world remembers the horrors committed by WW2 Japan and we will keep reminding them, ironically, the more they whitewash.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

The other big elephant in the room is the denial of the atrocities and the glorification of war criminals. japan wouldn't have to apologize all time if they just admitted what they did and didn't go to Yasukuni until the Class As were placed somewhere else.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

"The US has been apologizing for slavery for hundreds of years now and it never helps... So I think Japan had better get used to apologizing,,, at least for the next few hundred years or so."

Excellent, excellent point. I have come to accept that it is a part of the greater Asian society to play the victim. Korea, Japan and China all seem to vie for the title of "Queen for a Day." Each country has a long list of grievences against a host of other countries and use those feelings to either gloss over their own deficiencies or command some form of compensation or favors. It never stops and it never will; it's just part of their culture. You can see an excellent example of this in a Japan Times (August 19) article by Kevin Rafferty titled "Shinzo Abe's sorry apology." Rafferty says many things but the most telling for me is "...it is for the victim to decide whether the apology is acceptable or sincere, not for the victimizer to decide to decide enough is enough." This attitude is one of the reasons why victimhood is now a preferred status rather than something to overcome.

The reference to the US is especially telling on where this mentallity can lead. A certain segment of African-American society still laments the "stigma" of slavery and segregation (both truly putrid institutions that were once legal in America) and uses it to explain/defend/justify the high rate of out-of-wedlock birthrate or drug abuse or other factors that lead to disenfranchisement. If someone dares to point out to the people born after 1975 that slavery (gone for over a 100 years) and segregation (gone for about 50 years) is something you have never personally experienced then you will be labeled a racist or bigot.

China and Korea have a gaggle of other problems that are not related to WWII. I have written before that I have asked my Chinese and Korean students what a "sincere apology" would like and have never received an answer. I have also asked the same students how this perceived lack of an apology is hindering their lives and how one would improve them. Again no response. Japan does this too; last week I watched the annual showing of "Graveyard of the Fireflies" (Hotaro no Haka), the animated movie by Ghibli that shows the horrors of the firebombing of Kyoto through the lives of two chldren. It is a fantastic movie that casts Japan as the victim. When I tell people that Japan was working like mad to create their own atomic bomb they are shocked. Again, it just seems to be part of Asian culture. The issues of compensation are complicated. Obviously the victim wants more (and often deserves it) but the treaties negotiated at that time were behind closed doors with the information tightly controlled without the benefit of the media we enjoy today. Trying to discuss---and rectify--what a different kind of people did 70 years ago is an excercise in futility.

Prime Minister Abe has been criticised for calling for an end to the apologies, saying that future generations should not have to apologize for things they did not do. Abe is thin-skinned and a blue-blooded flower who has never experienced hardship but he is right on this one. There is no need to for people to apologize for things that happened before they were born. The world was a vastly different place in 1945 than it is today and it is better to focus on that.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

even today the Japanese establishment bring cheap labour from the poor countries in the name of the so called trainees program, and there is exploitation of these labours and sexual harassment of the young women. the world called it a modern day slavery and asking them to stop it, but the Japanese Government not only denied the allegation but expending the same program.

now how can you make them to apologize for the allegations happened 70 years ago.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

the USA never ever apologized for Slavery

@Zachcial

That is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. While the U.S. government certainly should have apologized for slavery back in the late 1800s or early 1900s when former slaves were still living, at this point there is nobody left to apologize to. The perpetrators and direct victims are long gone. Japan still has an opportunity to do the right thing with respect to the few victims still alive.

Also, in the U.S. there is no attempt by high-ranking politicians to deny or put a positive spin on slavery, nor are textbook authors pressured to omit aspects of slavery for fear that students would feel less proud of themselves as Americans. (Conversely, I and many others ironically feel pride at being willing to discuss past wrongdoings. Also, this is true of many Germans I know, for instance, who proudly denounce the Nazi regime.)

There would be public outrage if a politician were to make disparaging remarks along the lines of "many slaves chose/preferred/were better off with slavery" or "the slave trade was run by private operators and the U.S. government had nothing to do with it." That outrage is sorely lacking here in Japan. If a high-ranking U.S. politician were to water down the horrors of America's slavery, the public would most certainly demand an apology.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Actions speak louder than words... You can apologize repeatedly, over & over, again & again...but if your actions do not change, your words become meaningless...Why apologize when you don't mean PM Abe.

Actions always prove why words mean NOTHING.....!

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@darnname: Late to the party, but if you killed a kitten it would not make my killing a kitten any less horrific. China's past actions have no bearing on the wrongness of Japan's past.

As Yubaru said, most people alive today have little knowledge about Japan's dark history...most of my kids tell me that in class it was simply stated as facts (eg "Japan invaded mainland Asia') without any major details.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I think most of people would prefer no more history revisions than dishonest apologies.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

It seems that next new prime ministers would properly apologize again even if Abe wanted to stop it in the future, and though most people do not want it any more.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Japan" stop apologizing??? When did "Japan" start???

There is no official Diet sanctioned apology on behalf of the Japanese people! PMs and other officials apologizing or expressing remorse don't cut it at all. They are not really representative of "Japan" in that capacity. Only the Diet is. And even most past expressions of remorse never clearly outlined what "Japan" did wrong anyway.

What good is "sorry" in absence of a complete failure to detail what was done wrong complete with a promise to never do that again?

In fact, "Japan" does not need to say sorry at all. What it needs to do is just admit its wrongdoings with an official Diet sanctioned statement, swear to never do it again, and make sure textbooks educate the public on those wrongdoings. But the Diet won't do that because its controlled by nationalists who think pride, even false pride, is more important than the truth or contrition.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Polls can say anything you want them too

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Japanese politicians have apologized too much. On the anniversary of the war's end the prime minister should ignore it and play golf or something.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Exactly who is responsible for apologizing? There's all sorts of combinations.

Japanese people born in Japan? Japanese people born overseas? Overseas born people living in Japan? Overseas born people living overseas?

What exactly is expected of who, I am not sure.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

For China & SK, the Abe statement is nothing feel uncomfortable but that show 'Sign of their strategy is working'. It is totally unimmaginable of such language from any Japanese PMs during 1980s. Their pressing for a sincere apology from japan will getting intense as long as Japan reliance on China economy. Lets see what might happen on the 80th anniversary.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I agree with Gokai

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Apology never too much sincere classify this demand as infinity game.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

New era and new Japan who has learned from the past to better prepare for future in this trouble world. So far, post WWII Japan has shown good deeds as a valuable member of world community. Let the opportunists whine as they wish.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

They should be asking about how much these 2nd and 3rd generation folks actually know about just what the apologies are all about. Odds are they know very little, hence the high percentage that think that the apologizes should stop.

uhh...i think everyone knows that the apologies are about the war and past agressions. do they know every specific instance of agression, i doubt it, but that is not germane to the apology.

Why do such a high percentage agree? Because China and Korea demand more every time a statement is made. and now that abe has reaffirmed all previous statements, they want the apology to be sincere. do you really think this makes a big difference? the murayama and kono statements are official positions of japan, regardless of what some segments of the ldp say or do. they could also say that the earth is flat, but that won't change anything officially. japan has never retracted or back tracked on any apology.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Abé*chan's reasons for whitewashing history books : "What you don't know won't hurt you"... but it still hurts those who are the sons/daughters and grandchildren of the victims...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Do you people know why Abe is making such a lengthy, objective unclear and without the word 'apology' in such a statement known as 'Deep remorse of suffering'? He is leaving for space for him to Rescinding all the apologies especially that Murayamma one'. The nationalistic Abe need to appeasement the right-wings inside the LDP and he will tell another story to glorify the imperial Japan's deeds. He needs that hawish momentum to keep Japan's hostilities at China.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Politicians visit to Yasukuni really riles Japan's east Asia neighbors. But domestically it goes down quite well with a large part of LDP backing constituency. So the ruling party politicians want to visit it to boost their patriotic image. For LDP politicians, visiting Yasukuni means domestically one point gained, and internationally (mostly east Asia-wise) one point lost. They make their own judgements and Abe this time decided that the international side's lost outweighs the domestic gain. Internally conservative Japan which is gaining strength supports Yasukuni visit by politicians. So the least Japan can do is to issue apology internationally to placate Asian neighbors as Japan's growing conservatives have no intention of changing the way they view Yasukuni and the ones enshrined in it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

uhh...i think everyone knows that the apologies are about the war and past agressions. do they know every specific instance of agression, i doubt it, but that is not germane to the apology.

If you don't know the reasons behind the apologies then they mean nothing. They may know (in fact I know many who do know) that they apologies are about the war, but the aggression part is where things get really fuzzy.

It is very germane to the apology, because otherwise what are you apologizing for in the first place. "Oh I'm sorry my ancestors were in a war with you, but we are a victim too, Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki?"

They DON'T know about the details regarding the comfort women, they don't know about Nanking, Singapore, Burma, the Philippines (where 1 in 20 lost their lives to the Japanese invaders) China and the what, 6 million deaths. They don't know that the war for Korea started with the annexation of that country in 1910, or that to many Chinese WWII started around 1895....

The younger Japanese DO NOT know, hence their beliefs that apologies are unnecessary. Hell if I grew up with the same information I would probably think the same too. They are not too blame, BUT the government is to blame for keeping them in the dark.

Oh and BTW it isn't about the aggression per say, more about the atrocities.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

The main question is, do most Japanese actually know what they did?

If you think that "the Japanese nation suffered for trying to save Asia from Western colonialists" is what really happened during that time, then it's no surprise why you'd get tired of apologizing. But that's not the truth, now is it?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Only Japanese would consider themselves the victims for having to apologize, especially when apologies have no meaning here. They won't need to apologize anymore once they do it officially and don't follow it with denial.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

Finally. The tide is turning where the current generation think they had enough of this nonsense.

With the advent of the Internet, these people are more in tune with the global standards of how the biggest oppressors of modern history don't make apologies and make moral and strategic vindication of their forefathers that could easily be applied to Japan at that time.

-3 ( +12 / -15 )

I don't think Japan needs to apologize to other countries any more. As I said in another post, the leaders need to apologize to the Japanese people for whitewashing its history and not telling the facts in history texts. The government should apologize for promoting war during the first half of the 1900's and keeping the country poor and sending off their boys to fight and die.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

1) Tell the truth and nothing but the truth. Internment camps, comfort women, Nanjing. All of it.

2) Never go to Yasukuni again as long as Class A B and C's are secretly placed there

3) Accept apologizing as an opportunity to distance yourself from a Nazi past and describe what Today's Japan is doing. Acknowledge that this is going to be required whenever needed. Accept that not apologizing looks like a defence of the past. Apologize until the victims feels you are being sincere and can show action behind the words.

4) Pass anti-discrimination and anti-hate laws resulting in a ban of the black vans plus Imperial paraphernalia

This takes work and it takes decades. Decades that Japan should have been doing but has instead been hiding. Don't hide anymore and you too can let history pass like Germany did. Not because they forgot but because they wanted to rid themselves of that past. They have deserved the results. Japan wants to just bow and call it a day.

It doesn't work that way. Not taking responsibility is not how to take responsibility. Waiting until everyone of that era is gone isn't going to work either.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

If Abe and the 63% want to stop apologizing, they need to do better. With the 70th anniversary, Abe had an opportunity to make a clear definitive apology, but he chose to reaffirm past apologies and make vague references instead. I don't care what the US and Britain say, that seems incredibly forced and insincere or lazy at best. It certainly wasn't the "end all apology" that might of put this issue to rest. And like all previous apologies, it was almost immediately followed by shrine visits by fellow party members (and his wife).

Note to 63%, your leaders are just as much to blame for keeping this issue alive as China and Korea.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

They surveyed less than 2,000 households in a country of 130 million people? I would not call this a conclusive poll.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The problem with taking any kind of opinion poll -especially in Japan- is that people will try to tell you exactly what they think you want to hear. You have to craft the question to be neutral. Asking, 'do you think it's time for Japan to stop apologising for WW2...Yes or No?' is bound to get a majority of people saying 'yes'. I'd like to know how the question was phrased.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Abe's speech was a good one, considering that he expressed remorse over the aggression and suffering caused by past-Japan. I think an apology is not a big problem, but remorse and contrition are more important.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

When people don't know why they are being asked to apologise, it is almost a foregone conclusion that they will see no need to apologise. Particularly if they have no real connection to the event in question.

I would argue this is the case with many Japanese, particularly those of younger generations. Their knowledge of the pre-war and war period is limited. That is what happens when you have the LDP running the government and the bureaucracy for virtually the entire post-war period.

However, let me be clear. I would much rather that the government ensure that the children were taught the complete history, both good and bad, than repeat overly parsed "apologies". The former is much more meaningful, as learning about history can and does translate into feelings and convictions that are heart felt.

Which is why everyone is skeptical of Abe and the LDP. On the one hand, they issue and repeat expressions of regret, while on the other hand, they are doing everything they can to cleanse the textbooks and remove anything "overly critical" of Japanese actions in the period.

I, for one, will be teaching my son about the history of his two nations, as a child of U.S. and Japanese parents.

With regards to the U.S., I will ensure he learns it all. Yes, the promise of America and what it represented when it was founded and how it has evolved as a country. But also the bad and ugly. The treatment of American Indians, slavery, Chinese immigrants, Japanese-American internment, Vietnam War, etc. He doesn't need to apologise for it. But he absolutely needs to know it and understand it.

With regards to Japan, absolutely the same. And no doubt my wife and will have disagreements about this. But it is important and it is the only way to move forward.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

As many have mention Japan's "apologies" are usually weak, vague, misleading & insincere..............that said I think most in the world would have accepted these mealy mouthed blurbs if:

1 Japan didn't always immediately deny history. 2 Politicians etc wanting to recind the most recent "apology"

whitewashing & out & out lying about history, this is a BIGGIE!

etc etc etc you get the idea, BUT most Japanese DO NOT get this & that's because their govt & media have been lying to them for 70yrs and counting!!

Japan you cant blame China & Korea, this is 150% MIJ!

And this colossal denial has & continues to do tremendous harm to Japan, Japan's foolish FALSE pride is doing slowly ruining itself & for WHAT!!!

6 ( +9 / -3 )

cevin7,

Considering it's Abe and his party that openly express doubts about internationally accepted history and atrocities, I thought the apology was a little weak and lacking in real remorse and contrition. Given his context, he's also in bad position to be deciding when Japan has apologized enough. I thought that tacking that on was pretty... well tacky.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

They are not too blame, BUT the government is to blame for keeping them in the dark.

As nigelboy said, the young Japanese use the internet these days to learn their version of 'truth'.

They have all that tool, yet they only choose to read and believe what right wing netoyou's make up and upload onto their sites. While the ton of materials from the world outside of Japan gets ignored. If the Japanese youth really wanted to learn the truth, they can easily expand their horizons and look beyond 2ch and yahoo japan. But they don't want to. The Japanese youth are not blameless.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

New rule: Every PM apology which is followed by a visit or contribution to Yasukuni shrine is immediately cancelled and treated as if it never happened.

Because if you genuinely regret something, you take steps to fix your behavior. Not financially support the guys who say, "Nah brah, you never did anything wrong and they wanted you to kill and rape them anyway."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

AlexNoaburg And here is the result of whitewashed textbooks

Could you please point out exactly which textbooks are whitewashed?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

I don't like Abe, but I think he needn't apologize. He didn't kill anyone. The current generation of the Japanese (i.e. the people of the country that Abe is ruling) didn't kill anyone. He shouldn't feel guilty for himself and for his country.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I was born after WW2 ended. I didn't live through the horrors of either Pearl Harbour or Hiroshima. That being said, I think after the war, Japan became a kinder, gentler nation. They need to revive their warrior spirit or else they will be destroyed by Political Correctness and Diversity, just like the U.S., Canada, the U.K., Sweden, Norway, FInland, Australia and every other free western country.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@NatalieB

Every next PM has stood by the apologies made by Maruyama and Kono. Koizumi issued another apology and even the nationalist Abe “expressed deep remorse over the war and said previous apologies would stand.” No apologies have been rescinded so far.

@the principle: "Japan" stop apologizing??? When did "Japan" start???

The first official (and recorded) apologies were made in 1957 to the people of Burma and the people of Australia although there are accounts of witnesses of apologies made by Emperor Hirohito to McArtur soon after the end of the war. Educate yourself by reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan Obviously, people can be in denial about positive things, too.

@the principle: PMs and other officials apologizing or expressing remorse don't cut it at all. They are not really representative of "Japan"

Then why is everybody up in arms when Abe does this or that?

@the principle: What good is "sorry" in absence of a complete failure to detail what was done wrong complete with a promise to never do that again?

Do you expect every PM (or ordinary person for that matter) to give you a detailed account of all the crimes IJA committed before they apologize? As for the “promise to never do that again,” in such cases, the Japanese use the expressions “ni do to yatte wa ikemasen,” “onaji koto wo kurikaeshite wa ikemasen” rather than “yaranai yakusoku shimasu.” As a culture where self-restriction for the sake of the community is one of the first things Japanese are thought, “yatte wa ikemasen” has a much deeper and stronger meaning than “yaranai yakusoku shimasu”. But I guess you need to gain some better understanding of the Japanese language and the use of such expressions in situations which call for showing serious remorse and/or commitment.

This fixation on the past is really tiring. Like it or not, Japan has proven that it is a peaceful nation and despite the fact that gruesome details of past aggressions are not thought in most schools, the chance of Japanese kids growing into blood-thirsty monsters is close to non-existent. I am more concerned with the hate-Japan education which elementary school kids get in some of Japan’s neighbor countries.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

New rule: Every PM apology which is followed by a visit or contribution to Yasukuni shrine is immediately cancelled and treated as if it never happened.

Aka shifting goal posts as I alluded to on another article.( Abe''s wife) Give this poster credit for not being shy about it.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

The apology isn't the issue. It's everything else that amounts to the apology effectively being null & void. Abe & his cohorts' visits to Yasukuni, for example.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Well, this is a complex issue – but my take is as follows;

We need to separate official government actions and policy statements from personal views expressed by individuals. The GOJ has been fairly consistent from a policy perspective in issuing “apologies” for its actions during WW II – the clearest being the Murayama statement that each succeeding administration has upheld. To my knowledge, no administration has “revoked” this statement.

Various members of the LDP and other right wing politicians, have expressed revisionist views regarding Japan’s culpability during WW II – some, including Gen (Ret) Toshio Tamogami and former Tokyo Mayor and author Shintaro Ishihara, claim Japan has no culpability – a clearly incorrect and skewed view according to all reputable historians. I wholeheartedly disagree with these right wing extremists, but they are free in Japan to express their views, no matter how repugnant. What should be stressed is that these views do not reflect the official position of the government.

Of all the nations that were victims of Japan’s aggression during WW II, almost all have “moved on” and now do not criticize Japan’s past actions or continually demand an apology as part of their official government policy. Some have moved on considerably and welcome a more robust military role for Japan in the Pacific. The two that are still mired in past history do so for purely domestic reasons, and should be noted, have become more aggressive and vocal in their demands only during recent years.

China, from the period after the Korean War until 1988 had fairly good relations with Japan – it did not demand apologies on a yearly basis, and benefited from Japan’s Overseas Developmental Aid ($) and strong business ties. It was only after the Tianamman Square incident that China decided it would use Japan as a “foreign demon” to offset growing demands from the Chinese public for basic human rights. As China moved towards claiming large of swaths in the East and South China Seas, it upped the rhetoric against Japan in its strategic efforts to convince the international audience of its views.

Korea is more nuanced – again, up until around 1990, Korea and Japan retained somewhat restrained but workable relations – like China, they did not demand yearly apologies and also benefitted from ODA and perhaps even closer business ties. Most of the large Korea chaebol can trace their beginnings to one of Japan’s major domestic conglomerates. Democracy however changed that dynamic. Korean politicians quickly learned the old rule that the best way to divert the public from a scandal is to invoke nationalism. Additionally, Korean media, freed from government control during years of dictatorship, realized that fanning a controversy increased revenue. But as with most things, they over-did it – they created such a negative imagine of Japan in the eyes of the Korean public that any cooperation with Japan now results in outrage and retribution at the voting booth. So now, you have the current Korean government, understanding that there are a variety of issues that would clearly be in their national interest to cooperate with Japan on, prevented from doing so on pure political grounds.

Unfortunately, I don’t see circumstances changing regarding this issue in either of these countries in the near future.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

And here is the result of whitewashed textbooks

Say there is a kid who is well-educated about what "really happened" during the war.

And say this kid was born to one Japanese parent and one non-Japanese parent. (Not so hypothetical here...)

Is this kid supposed to apologise to themselves for what one side of their ancestry did to the other side?

The "nationalism" goes both ways. Expecting kids living in a country to apologise for stuff that happened 70 years ago is associating the kids with the nation state.

I'm for individuality myself.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@ThePBot: The main question is, do most Japanese actually know what they did?

What did they do? Most of them were not born before the end of the war. Questions like yours are part of the problem because you equate the present-day generations with those that lived during the war. Clumsy grammar I believe but such clumsy grammar is the reason for guilt by association. And guilt by association more often than not results in plain and simple defiance.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

nigelboyAUG. 20, 2015 - 12:00PM JST New rule: Every PM apology which is followed by a visit or contribution to Yasukuni shrine is immediately cancelled and treated as if it never happened. Aka shifting goal posts as I alluded to on another article.( Abe''s wife) Give this poster credit for not being shy about it.

No goal posts are being shifted here. Contrition requires correction. If I punch you in the face, tell you I deeply regret it, and then immediately turn around and high-five my friend who says that it was awesome when I punched you in the face because you totally deserved it, are you going to believe I genuinely regret punching you?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

It's true. What Japan needs to do is stop apologizing...and instead use direct language to clarify what they did. The world is looking for Japan to stop refuting and questioning what was done in the past, and to stop glossing over a brutal military campaign with words like "aggressions." They want the young people to know why Manchuria is significant, and not simply give back a blank stare. They want Japan to know their history, but not feel they have to apologize for something done a generation or two before they were born.

History will not repeat itself if we LEARN from history and our mistakes. But changing history, ignoring historical issues, not confronting directly the deeds of our ancestors...and expecting that everything will be forgotten and forgiven if we just say sorry...that never ends well.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

To understand the behaviour of Japan towards this issue, we have to really understand the underlying reasons. First reason is that post war Japan's government was essentially the same government that started the war in the Pacific. As Nazi sympathizers, that postwar government did not abandon their racist belief that they were most superior race, and it was their right to rule Asia as they fit. This belief is firmly entrenched in today's Japan - the same Japan that just last year, in a NHK poll, where 68% of Japanese polled said that the Japanese are the most superior race over all other nations, and that Japan is a paradise on earth.

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/jiitanio/12475833.html

It's not just Nazi style racism that got transplanted from the post war Japanese government. The Shinto belief in the living gods of the emperor is still a central role in the subconsciousness of Japanese, as this news from Sankei news reports.

http://www.sankei.com/entertainments/news/140519/ent1405190007-n1.html

In essence, fundalmentally, not much has changed in Japan since the end of World War II. Democracy and pacifist constitution which were forced upon them by the Americans were the only changes. But underneath that superficial level, not much has changed in Japan. Yes, Japan has been a peaceful nation for 70 years, but it wasn't hard to see the old Japan laying just underneath the surface.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

No goal posts are being shifted here. Contrition requires correction. If I punch you in the face, tell you I deeply regret it, and then immediately turn around and high-five my friend who says that it was awesome when I punched you in the face because you totally deserved it, are you going to believe I genuinely regret punching you?

Since when did "visiting or contribution to Yasukuni" became "punching you in the face"?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Do you not know what an analogy is?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Know the problem with the world today? Just too much improtance is given to 'apologies'. Hey, you did this. But I apologised, dear. Yes, but now please regret it. OK I do. That's not sincere enough, stop this, stop that..................

What do apologies achieve anyway? The hatred doesn't really go away. Doing good deeds will go further than an apology. Don't be hung up on an apology, world (Japan included).

Apologies have become a joke, whether sincere or otherwise. In fact, outside politics, institutions very clearly will do something controversial intentionally, then apologise later for mileage.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abe didn't punch anyone in the first place though, so is that analogy right? I see other issues with the analogy too.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

nigelboy AUG. 20, 2015 - 12:18PM JST No goal posts are being shifted here. Contrition requires correction. If I punch you in the face, tell you I deeply regret it, and then immediately turn around and high-five my friend who says that it was awesome when I punched you in the face because you totally deserved it, are you going to believe I genuinely regret punching you? Since when did "visiting or contribution to Yasukuni" became "punching you in the face"?

In this analogy, punching you in the face is the Imperial Japanese Army, invading, looting, raping, and murdering across its Asian neighbors. Visiting Yasukuni is the high-five to my friend who says it's totally cool.

Were you unaware that that was Yasukuni's position on Imperial Japanese aggression? If so I suggest you visit their Yushukan War Museum, where Yasukuni outright celebrates it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The poll published by Yomiuri newspaper found 63% of those surveyed agreed that Japan should refrain from saying sorry in future

Then the 63 percent are stupid. It's very simple, people. Not rocket science in any way whatsoever. If you apologise, then let a high ranking politician like Abe, Hashimoto or Ishihara go out and deny what you apologised for - and not punish them - then your "apology" gets rendered worthless. Nullified in fact. If the government made it a crime (for politicians) to deny the essential facts of WW2: Japan invaded and colonised other countries, and committed atrocities - then the cycle will stop. Easy

5 ( +9 / -4 )

All this really means is that Japan doesn't have the leadership to get out of this mess by facing up to history and being able to move on. We learn this at a young age but unfortunately we are seeing what happens in Japan when you don't.

Once Japan can find itself through facing up to this issue I believe Japan will be stronger and more engaged in the world around it. A lot of its separation from the world comes from this separation from itself.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Weird because the other poll by Kyodo said 67 percent said Abe should apologize.

Abe has repeatedly said that he will express remorse in the statement, expected out shortly before the Aug. 15 anniversary of the war's end, but that he will not issue a fresh apology - despite a recent poll by Kyodo news agency that found 67 percent of respondents thought he should.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0PX0JB20150723

1 ( +3 / -2 )

nigelboy AUG. 20, 2015 - 12:18PM JST Since when did "visiting or contribution to Yasukuni" became "punching you in the face"?

When you have $345 billion dollars in bilateral trade, most Japanese companies get the message. You don't because you have nothing to to with it. Do you work with any of these companies? There are 20,000 Japanese companies operating inside China. Do these companies tell Abe or the 125 top J-government reps visit Yasukini is the right thing to do? It's not 30 years ago when Japan had one sided agreement, Japan has to adjust. But you live in the past.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

In this analogy, punching you in the face is the Imperial Japanese Army, invading, looting, raping, and murdering across its Asian neighbors. Visiting Yasukuni is the high-five to my friend who says it's totally cool.

You have a warped mind.

Were you unaware that that was Yasukuni's position on Imperial Japanese aggression? If so I suggest you visit their Yushukan War Museum, where Yasukuni outright celebrates it.

I don't believe they 'celebrate' it. I doubt the millions of visitors including the ancestors feels that way.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

It is way past the Overtime Period, the People of Japan have paid enough for the "miss deeds" of a few people. It is time to move on, most of the People that created Japan's participation in WW 2 have been long gone. It is time to forget and move on!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Japanese will not tell you right into your face, but most of them are very proud of one thing. They are very proud of Japan that it was the first Asian country to colonize other countries, and that they were first Asian country to fight wars against the west, competing with them in attaining foreign lands forcibly. Even the most vehement Japanese nationalists in this forum will not deny that. This type of ingrained racialist mindset has no room left for thinking these things through critically, and from the point of view of others. Japan will never face up to the truth in history. You might as well give up holding your breath they'll never start to tell the truth in a million years. They'll continue to peddle their BS to save their own racial pride in themselves.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

'Were you unaware that that was Yasukuni's position on Imperial Japanese aggression? If so I suggest you visit their Yushukan War Museum, where Yasukuni outright celebrates it.

I don't believe they 'celebrate' it. I doubt the millions of visitors including the ancestors feels that way.'

Just out of interest, what word would you use instead of 'celebrate'?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just out of interest, what word would you use instead of 'celebrate'?

慰める。

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Why does Japan need to keep apologizing about their role in WWII? How may Jews protest in front of every German embassy or on the media telling Germany you're bad and you need to keep apologizing? The reason is that Hollywood and the mass media is owned and operated by persons who every few years make another movie about how bad the Jewish people were treated and I believe that I am correct on this one. On the other hand if China, Korea and other Asian countries owned Hollywood and the media then they could also manipulate how the world sees the events in WWII that caused them so much pain and suffering. Many Jews own high end German products and many Koreans and Chinese own high end German cars but they don't see the fact that Germany was as bad or worse than Japan in terms of human rights. Asia needs to move on and not ask Japan for an apology every year. If it were not for Japan's success technically and economically, Asia would still be a back water third world locality.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Gokai-wo-maneku-san, good observations. Certain groups need the friction the war pain causes to get donations and political capital. This is why it'll never truly be behind us.

@AlexNoaburg, every views its past from a different place as people on the other side of events. Korea had 50 pages on Japanese war atrocities, Japanese textbooks have 3 pages. Maybe we could agree that 15 is a good middle ground? For the record I received no teaching about my own country's failed history in Vietnam, including villages "cleansed" to keep them save from Communism. I had to go out of my way to study it in university.

People who rail against Yasukuni should take the time to visit. It's basically a place to contemplate the lives of all Japan's war dead, and 99.9% of what you see is tributes to normal soldiers and sailors who served their country. Also, dogs, horses and carrier pigeons who died are also remembered, which is a nice touch. There's a restaurant where you can eat "navy curry" and a museum that unabashedly shows Japan's side of the war, with no inaccurate reporting (that I could tell), though certainly no reflection that Japan was causing pain to its neighbors as it tried to get noticed by "Britain-senpai."

Bottom line, Yasukuni is a greatly flawed version of Arlington National Cemetery to the Japanese, and it's all they have. Yes, there are crazies there (I talked with one guy who actively wanted a "red purge" in the government), but it's kind of a safety valve for them, since they can't express these ideas any other way.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

nigelboyAUG. 20, 2015 - 12:42PM JST In this analogy, punching you in the face is the Imperial Japanese Army, invading, looting, raping, and murdering across its Asian neighbors. Visiting Yasukuni is the high-five to my friend who says it's totally cool.

your answer: You have a warped mind.

Why explain that he has a warped mind because it's the right thing to do for the Japanese, including 125-government officials? You don't notice majority of the Japanese citizens dissaprove of the actions of your government reps visiting Yasukuni, but they are called warped minds? Why don't you put in the ballet if they have warped mind?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

nigelboy AUG. 20, 2015 - 12:42PM JST Were you unaware that that was Yasukuni's position on Imperial Japanese aggression? If so I suggest you visit their Yushukan War Museum, where Yasukuni outright celebrates it. I don't believe they 'celebrate' it. I doubt the millions of visitors including the ancestors feels that way.

I've been to Yushukan, and I've seen the exhibits. I've seen the Burma railway engine in the front lobby, next to the Zero fighter and the human torpedo sub. I've seen the placards where they proudly insist that China and Korea asked Japan to invade because they were unfit to govern their own citizens.

What you believe doesn't really enter into the discussion when there is objective evidence showing otherwise. Yushukan says what the Japanese Imperial Army did was good, and Yushukan is part of and controlled by Yasukuni. Every PM who contributes to Yasukuni is contributing to Yushukan.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Why explain that he has a warped mind because it's the right thing to do for the Japanese, including 125-government officials? You don't notice majority of the Japanese citizens dissaprove of the actions of your government reps visiting Yasukuni, but they are called warped minds? Why don't you put in the ballet if they have warped mind?

You have a pending question on another article which you have yet to answer. Perhaps answering here would be your best counter as opposed to posting more unrelating questions.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

'Just out of interest, what word would you use instead of 'celebrate'?

慰める'

マイ アース.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I've seen the placards where they proudly insist that China and Korea asked Japan to invade because they were unfit to govern their own citizens.

Dead giveaway that you didn't visit Yushukan.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Make that 63% + 1 person. Enough of the apologies. If you can not sleep without it, take sleeping pills.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yubaru,

I don't know where you are from, but tell me: have leaders of your country fully apologized for its past atrocities and are still apologizing?

I'm just curious what makes you think you have moral standing to criticize another country or people for not apologizing enough for their past wrongdoings.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The best apology for wrongdoing is refraining from doing it again, and Japan seems to have been doing fine in that regard.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@Papi2013 and others, my own take on the era is that, in the 19th century Japan realized it had to be "strong" (belligerent) like the other countries of the era (mostly Britain) or it would end up part of someone else's empire. The removal from the map of Prussia at the end of WWI was a huge shock to Japan, too. How can a country be erased like that? So they copied "Britain-senpai" and set out to have a strong empire just like every other world power at the time. Even the U.S., always pretending to be anti-"imperialistic," ended up with an Empire after the Spanish-American war.

Of course Japan, being a young nation, didn't have the wisdom to temper its own actions. It believed its own divinity, and did terrible things. For which it has apologized, certainly more than my own country has apologized about Vietnam, manipulating the elections of democratic countries, and so on.

Among the "mistakes" Japan made, incidentally, was waging war an empire in the Era of Photography, so there's lots of evidence of the (terrible) things they did right up to the present day. That, plus the tendency for history books to be written by the winners, is why we perceive the Japanese as savages yet see the British as polite tea-drinking gentlemen saying "cheerio!" and "tut tut!" all the time.

Some reading for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

nigelboyAUG. 20, 2015 - 01:25PM JST Dead giveaway that you didn't visit Yushukan.

Once again, just because you believe something doesn't make it true. You can believe all you want that I didn't visit Yushukan if that makes you feel better about your position, but if you don't have a fact to share to back up your belief then you're not exactly contributing to the discussion.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

'm just curious what makes you think you have moral standing to criticize another country or people for not apologizing enough for their past wrongdoings.

And you have the "right" or moral standing to attempt to criticize what I wrote? It's called an opinion.

Oh and by the way, I am a Japanese citizen. So I guess I have more rights than others in some ways.

I'm for individuality myself.

Not a Japanese ideal.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

If your country is not multiracial and your race is pretty much your country and its people, then, of course, patriotism comes tinged with racism. In America, racism is a vice because we have had numerous problems with racial conflicts in the past. Wars over slavery, civil rights struggles, lynching of blacks, the lynching of one Jew who had been called out for being Jewish and being from the wrong part of the country, chasing the aboriginals out of their motherlands, and so on and so forth. Some countries might have a more positive view of racism, particularly if one's people or ethnicity is at the heart of his or her nation's identity. For example, national racism can be an "item" in Israel (Jewish), Palestine (Palestinian), the Slavic countries (Russians, Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, etc.), Ireland (Irish), the UK (Scots, English, Welsh), Malaysia (Malay), Korea, and, of course, Japan. Let's not forget India, Iran, and other old countries whose national soul traditionally revolves around some ethnic group or other.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Once again, just because you believe something doesn't make it true. You can believe all you want that I didn't visit Yushukan if that makes you feel better about your position, but if you don't have a fact to share to back up your belief then you're not exactly contributing to the discussion.

I'll repeat what I stated initially.

"With the advent of the Internet, these people are more in tune with the global standards of how the biggest oppressors of modern history don't make apologies and make moral and strategic vindication of their forefathers that could easily be applied to Japan at that time."

The fact that you started off with this article with the introduction of the 'new rule' is another reason why more people will eventually shift towards 'no more apology'.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

nigelboy AUG. 20, 2015 - 02:07PM JST The fact that you started off with this article with the introduction of the 'new rule' is another reason why more people will eventually shift towards 'no more apology'.

More people will eventually shift toward truth.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If you're so eager for Japan to apologize for WWII, then we might as well ask for apologies over the restriction of foreigners to Dejima and the expulsion of the Christians by the Tokugawa shogunate. Maybe we should look up the descendents of the daimyo and have them apologize for their feudal wars. And then ask Japan to apologize for chasing the Ainu to Hokkaido. Heck, perhaps we should ask for an apology for building overly big mounds during the Kofun period, thousands of years ago!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

nigelboy AUG. 20, 2015 - 02:07PM JST I'll repeat what I stated initially.

Which has nothing to do with your false accusation that I have never been to Yushukan. I tend to find in Internet discussions that when someone wants to bring the discussion back to their original post, it means they aren't actually interested in having a discussion.

The fact that you started off with this article with the introduction of the 'new rule' is another reason why more people will eventually shift towards 'no more apology'.

... because my opinions on what Japan should do have been so influential in the past?

You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, but your entire interaction with me in this thread has been to invent rhetorically dubious reasons to pretend you can just disregard my opinion without actually engaging with it to give an objective reason why it's wrong. If you're not willing to do that, I think it's probably time we bring this interaction to a close.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Heck, perhaps we should ask for an apology for building overly big mounds during the Kofun period, thousands of years ago!

It's not a matter of apologising. It's a matter of denial. The entire world would be glad for Japan to stop apologising.......when they stop allowing their leaders to deny apologies

1 ( +6 / -5 )

With the advent of the Internet, these people are more in tune with the global standards of how the biggest oppressors of modern history don't make apologies and make moral and strategic vindication of their forefathers that could easily be applied to Japan at that time.

Unfortunately, most only look at information written in Japanese. I'm not judging them for that, but that certainly limits the variety of viewpoints they're exposed to.

I think another commenter said this, but Japan seems to regret losing the war more than starting it. Looking at the mainstream media, I can't help but agree. These past couple of weeks, there was a lot of talk on TV about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the brave soldiers on the Pacific front, and then concluding that it must never happen again. With hardly any mention of the Asian front and the devastation they themselves caused, it's not surprising that many Japanese feel they've being unfairly judged.

An apology is only one part of genuine acknowledgement. I guess it's the rest that a lot of people in Japan seem to be lacking.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Yes, please do. Bickering takes the discussion nowhere.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Asking the modern Japanese to apologize is no different than asking Mongolians to apologize for Genghis Khan. Illogical.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Asking the modern Japanese to apologize

We are asking them to stop denying. Somewhat different. Acknowledge that yes...........we did this and that........no-one is going to deny it any more. They should put up a few monuments as well, to the forced labourers and POWs in Japan. That would work wonders.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Abe is actually right. Apologies are not forever. The reason Korea and China keep complaining is out of financial interest. Disputes over inhabitated isles only became present issues after it was known there's gas in the area, so there is an interest to make the Japanese apologize again and again . The Dutch have been complaining about Abe's speech as well, but have forgotten that the Emperor has apologized on Dutch TV prior to a visit to The Netherlands.

The Germans got away with a single apology and have the advantage of being the economic engine of Europe.

One thing left to do for Japan... change the history books according to the apologies already made.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

it's mind boggling that some foreigners are okay with Japan's WW2 revisionism. I think most Westerners are okay with Japan militarizing IF they are educated on the past. It does not benefit the West to have a militarized and forgetful Japan. We saw what happened last time to Asians and whites alike.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

lincolnman, why would anyone downvote what you wrote? a really unbiased and nuetrally-worded look at the current situation. i'm guessing you're working at the embassy, at a mid- to high-level position?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

One long simple apology with bow and repaid monetary the counties they harm in the past one time fee and some museum to remind NEVER the history needs repeat itself again. That's it! You not need apologize each time but they didn't never apologize with nobody ever! They believe they really truly believe what they did was the best for Asian countries because they believe their culture was more superior to conquer and "educate" the other Asian civilization. If not why they are not still apologize with other countries with the atrocities they did? Japan is a great country, organize, punctual, polite, educate people, high standards of life and goals. But they miss an important factor humility and recognize mistakes. When you recognize you did wrong that's make you a better person or country. Enough said.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

We are asking them to stop denying. Somewhat different. Acknowledge that yes...........we did this and that........no-one is going to deny it any more. They should put up a few monuments as well, to the forced labourers and POWs in Japan. That would work wonders.

Point me to statement where Abe denied war crimes.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

How fantastic to see this statistic when previously I'd be lashed by JT readers for thinking Japan doesn't need to keep apologising.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Japan has already apologized a lot of times. There is no satisfying some people.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

The current population of Japan have done nothing to apologise for, therefore they shouldn't need to constantly apologise to SK and Korea, the only countries that keep banging on and on and on.... etc... The war crimes were committed by Imperial forces more than two generations ago... I really don't see the need for any more apologies.

Should modern Italy apologise to much of Europe, Egypt, etc for the deeds of the Roman Empire? Should I apologise for what was done in the name of the British Empire?

Just let it go.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Patriotism is a disease based in psychological insecurity that forces its adherents to believe what they want to believe. This is basically that they are good people by virtue of belonging to a certain national group that has a basically good history and character. It is pointless trying to argue with this. The truth is whatever they want it to be.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We really need everyone to fix the "emotional" economy of Japan.

That, and the rigidity of trying to be a "refugee/immigrant/outsider/someone who views Japan as a potential home, or just...an individual".

Self-Awareness.... it is a must. For the lack and the need, is ever greater than before.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

too right. china and korea need to just chill. there was a survey recently and chinese people couldn't believe that japanese people were basically over hiroshima and didn't hate america for it... it's 'cause they don't blame people for the sins of their fathers, china. it was ages ago, chill.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

As I have often said, no apology means anything if the actions that follow the apology go against what it was all about in the first place

Actions? 70 years of peace not good enough for you then? And oh what a terrible country is with such a stable society, nowhere near going to war again, and all this while a military coup takes place in South Korea and millions of Chinese are killed at the command of their own leader?

Change the record, why don't you?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

'Should modern Italy apologise to much of Europe, Egypt, etc for the deeds of the Roman Empire? Should I apologise for what was done in the name of the British Empire?

Just let it go.'

It's the denials. You're a Brit. Would you be comfortable with Cameron equivocating over whether African slaves were coerced even hundreds of years later? Wouldn't the ancestors of those people have the right to be furious if he attempted to do so? Would you be comfortable with a British PM appointing someone who flatly denied known atrocities in India and Kenya to name but two? Should the ancestors of those people just be told to 'let it go' in that situation? I know you're a decent fella and I know you'd be outraged if a British leader attempted this.

If the denials stopped and China and Korea kept hammering on the door, you'd have a leg to stand on when telling them to sling their hooks. Until then, you don't.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

This article is not entirely true, sure they want the apologies to stop but at the Prime Minister level and have the official and formal apology to the world come from the Emperor's side and the denounce the Emperor system forever, but in Japan the people are not allowed to say such things proving that they don't have real individual or group rights

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So who can/should/would/might lead these islands?

Someone lowering profile on the international scale? Bring it back to 100million people?

There is not much ethnological progress Contributed to such isolated location.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

115 comments so far! You guys really like this line of topics.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Didn't the Emperor apologise? I thought I saw on the news that Emperor Akihito made an apologetic statement... he did:

“Looking back at the past, together with deep remorse over the war, I pray that this tragedy of war will not be repeated and together with the people, express my deep condolences for those who fell in battle and in the ravages of war, and pray for world peace and the further prosperity of our country.”

That not enough?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Actions? 70 years of peace not good enough for you then? And oh what a terrible country is with such a stable society, nowhere near going to war again, and all this while a military coup takes place in South Korea and millions of Chinese are killed at the command of their own leader? Change the record, why don't you?

Japan had no choice in the matter if you know anything about history.

I guess you are one of those folks who just want to brush everything under the carpet and wish it would all go away.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I guess you are one of those folks who just want to brush everything under the carpet and wish it would all go away.

Sounds fair to me...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The tactic to shift away the attention: constantly focus on repeated apologies when this is not just about apologies. What people want are little bit of contrition from Japan. The Japan defenders need to answer for Japan's constant attempts at tinkering with history. But they won't. They'll just repeat "Japan already apologized" to excuse away what they see right in front of their eyes but refuses to recognize it as Japan using lies to glorify their WWII record.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

'Didn't the Emperor apologise? I thought I saw on the news that Emperor Akihito made an apologetic statement... he did:

“Looking back at the past, together with deep remorse over the war, I pray that this tragedy of war will not be repeated and together with the people, express my deep condolences for those who fell in battle and in the ravages of war, and pray for world peace and the further prosperity of our country.”

That not enough?'

No, unfortunately it isn't. It's a fine statement from a man who as far as I know hasn't attempted to equivocate or muddy the waters. If his example was followed by the elected leaders of this country and the people they appoint, the Chinese and Koreans wouldn't have a case.

You keep talking about apologies but seem stubbornly unwilling to acknowledge denials or equivocations. It is worth pointing out that such denials have been criticised outside of Korea and China.

Pretty indefensible.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Christopher Glen "We are asking them to stop denying".

You should stop to impose your foreign viewpoint to Japanese people. You have not a right to dictate anything to sovereign state. Can you understand it ?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Certainly Japan should keep apologising for the war. But why is it only losers of wars have to apologise? Many if not most of the US wars have been illegal, and wars of aggression, as have many other countries' wars. America's entry to WWII against Japan was deliberately enticed - see 'Day of Deceit' by Robert B. Stinnett; FDR intentionally sacrificed the victims of the Pearl Harbor attack, wanting it to happen, having deliberately enticed it, and not warning Pearl that the Japanese Task Force was on the way to attack; has America ever acknowledged, never mind apologised, for FDR & Co.'s sacrificing the sailors and airmen of Pearl Harbor? When has the British Government ever apologised for the 'British Empire'? Were the takeovers of those countries not done by force of arms? On what justification? Have the 'Coalition Forces' ever apologised for the chaos and mayhem that is now Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

We say" do not mentions the germans"--in fact do not apologise at all time will sweep all away...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

..

because my opinions on what Japan should do have been so influential in the past?

No. But you establishing this new rule is nothing new when it comes to this 'apology' issue from the 1980's.

How many times have we heard where the counterparts respond with "show with action" or submit the "sincerity" card after an apology where they don't mention the specifics? It's a recipe for moving goal posts.

Perhaps it's time both Korea and China be specific of what needs to be done. And if Japan rejects, both of them has a choice of either moving on and bring this matter to a close or simply agree to part ways and terminate the relationship.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Be contrite and stop making excuses, learn from the Germans and then you can stop apologizing. Until then think of it as part of your punishment for the many atrocities committed by your countrymen.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

'@Christopher Glen "We are asking them to stop denying".

You should stop to impose your foreign viewpoint to Japanese people. You have not a right to dictate anything to sovereign state. Can you understand it ?'

What's your point? Japanese people have a right to deny or cloud atrocities and appalling violations against citizens of other countries and this is a matter for the Japanese only? Interesting idea.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

samwattersAug. 20, 2015 - 08:35AM JST " Rafferty says many things but the most telling for me is "...it is for the victim to decide whether the apology is acceptable or sincere, not for the victimizer to decide to decide enough is enough." This attitude is one of the reasons why victimhood is now a preferred status rather than something to overcome.

An apology is a step to resolving differences. It requires two parties to serve it's purpose. One part must extend and express an apology, The other party must recognize it as an apology and accept it. This is where China (et al) are playing the perpetual "apology demand game". Japan has apologized anywhere from 17 to 40 times according to various western news sources. China and South Korea refuse to recognize them. When backed against the wall they admit that it was an apology but "it wasn't sincere". The only time that any of Japan's apologies could be realistically considered insincere is if right after they apologized they started bombing. Calling an apology "insincere" is disingenuous as it is entirely subjective and at the whim of the recipient, which is what China and South Korea play upon. Adding to this tactic is the flood of utter false information - "Japan has never apologized", "Japan has rescinded past apologies" that the China supports spread to mislead those whose views on the matter are objective.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

The huge discrepancy between Japan, China & Korea is this. To Japan apologizing means "to keep say we are sorry", to China and Korea apologizing means "to show us the money". If the Germans want to keep paying exorbitant amount to every one of their victims & their families for eternity, that is their choice. If Japan has already made any kind of monetary "apology" in the past, then they need to prove when it was done & for how much.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

An apology is a step to resolving differences. It requires two parties to serve it's purpose. One part must extend and express an apology, The other party must recognize it as an apology and accept it.

Wrong. A genuine apology should be followed by actions. Actions like not lying about history, whitewashing, going to Yasukuni to celebrate Japanese war makings and to worship war criminals. A genuine apology are not just merely words to shift away attention, playing word games (example Abe's speech last week). The other party does not have to accept such lies, it is up to them to decide if they want to extend their forgiveness to the party that is still playing games to muddy the issues against them that are indefensible. Your country needs to come to grips with history, and be honest about it.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

@Jimizo

The likes of Christopher Glen is not "asking them to stop denying" ... they are attempting to establish the false that Japan is denying by constantly repeating this.

For the vast majority of Japanese these matters have no interest or no importance. They didn't do them. They are parents and grandparents didn't do them. They are far too busy with real life issues to care what crazy people overseas think.

Japan is right to ignore all this constant and immoral hectoring.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

'The only time that any of Japan's apologies could be realistically considered insincere is if right after they apologized they started bombing.'

Unarguably the most bizarre sentence on this very long thread. Are you seriously saying that the only indicator of insincerity would be a military attack?

What's next year's speech?

"We apologise for the suffering caused but it isn't 100% clear that we caused suffering or the suffering has been grossly exaggerated or is in some cases a whole cloth fabrication. To prove our sincerity we won't bomb the living daylights out of you"

Do yourself a favour.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

that kind of things are unrealistic and beyond of sense. Japan now is very different than what it was and apologizing for the sins of Ancestors doesn't make any sense. Its like if your father killed anyone you will get the punishment for that and that is so bad that will never be good for any country or individual. Its will become never ending destruction story.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

How many times can you say you're sorry? Contrary to popular belief by left-wingers, nobody is "denying any past apologies," I have seen no evidence of that. And why should present generations apologize for something they had nothing to do with? The whole apology industry is ludicrous.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If sincere in the first place no need for anymore. There have always been caveats

1 ( +3 / -2 )

You should stop to impose your foreign viewpoint to Japanese people. You have not a right to dictate anything to sovereign state. Can you understand it ?

Wow, you know it's thinking like this that ends up starting wars. Is that what you want?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The reason why these apologies are insincere is because of the constant denial of their past, not teaching their people of their true past, and the constant respecting of war criminals who caused this.

If Japan as a nation admit to the atrocities they've committed, taught schools of these events of Japanese aggression that lead to these atrocities, and stopped paying respects to figures who have caused these atrocities, then you cannot find a more sincere apology than that. It would be better than any kind of "I'm sorry", or my personal favorite, "It's regrettable". If Japan did that, then her neighbors will most likely lay this to rest, and any politically motivated forces within China and Korea can't use Japanese WW2 atrocities as talking points anymore without looking stupid.

But unfortunately, Japan won't seem to do this in the near future. If they can't learn from even their own history, then they cannot possibly "move on", something that they ironically like to tell their neighbors to do. This will go on forever until Japan makes the move of admittance.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I bet Japanese or Americans don't hang around on Chinese sites just to bash China. Christ get a life/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Former Taiwan President Lee Teng-Ching visited Yasukuni in 2007. And SMC Lt. General Wallace Gregson in 2001.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I think Jeremy Corbyn must have read my post at 09.28 (20 Aug.) on here: 'Jeremy Corbyn will apologise for Iraq War on behalf of Labour if he wins leadership contest': http://www.cityam.com/222759/jeremy-corbyn-will-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-if-he-wins-leadership-contest There are SOME decent politicians about; interestingly, he wasn't chosen by Bilderberg! He'd better 'watch his back'!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Jimizo

Unarguably the most bizarre sentence on this very long thread. Are you seriously saying that the only indicator of insincerity would be a military attack?

I thin some of the people here would only believe the apologies were sincere IF Japan allowed itself to be militarily attacked and did not complain about it.

Which is pretty much the result China would like to achieve with all its propaganda war, i.e. that Japan can be militarily attacked and no one will care if they complain about it.

"Oh, the Japanese are bad, they deserved it for not apologizing sincerely!" or like after the Tsunami (remember this), "It's their karma!"

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I thin some of the people here would only believe the apologies were sincere IF Japan allowed itself to be militarily attacked and did not complain about it.

That's a pretty illogical conclusion to draw, considering pretty much every person who has had an issue with Japan's "apology" has given a reason why it wasn't enough, none of which were the conclusion you have drawn.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

That wasn't a "logic conclusion". It was ironic mockery of the professional apology demanders.

Perhaps it was just too subtle for you?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Nah, it just wasn't very well done.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Abe is actually right

Abe is actually wrong

Point me to a statement where Abe denied war crimes.

Just google "Abe" and "denies" and about a dozen links will pop up at you.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Just google "Abe" and "denies" and about a dozen links will pop up at you.

I asked you to give me a statement. Or do you think that googling 'holocaust' and 'hoax' is sufficient proof that the holocaust didn't occur?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I asked you to give me a statement. do you think that googling 'holocaust' and 'hoax' is sufficient proof that the holocaust didn't occur?

Clearly he overestimated your understanding of how google works. While googling something doesn't provide proof by itself, sometimes the links that appear lead to websites that do. Some websites are reliable, others not so much. You have to use your own judgement for that. It's hard to mess up direct quotes though, so I took the liberty of finding one for you.

"There was no evidence to prove there was coercion as initially suggested. That largely changes what constitutes the definition of coercion, and we have to take it from there." - Abe on comfort women

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html

2 ( +4 / -2 )

0 ( +3 / -3 )

STOP APOLOGIZING. The war is over, everyone has learned from it except those trying to take advantage of it. Every country on earth is guilty crimes no one is not guilty of war crimes.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Christopher Glen

Do you really believe everything you read on the internet?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

It seems you do. There are books out there - but easier to find supporting links

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Do you really believe everything you read on the internet?

The classic deflection from people with no evidence for their own views when faced with facts they don't like. Unless you're actually there at house sessions or interviews, how else are you supposed get information but from the news media or Internet? The sites he listed are reputable news organizations. They tend to stick to facts, especially when quoting people.

Just because you can't discern credible information on the Internet, doesn't mean others can't.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Not having an indisputable mea culpa is good for the diplomatic dance on both sides. Domestically Abe can claim he didn't truly apologize as his statements were relatively ambiguous and from a foreign relations standpoint Japan can continue to needle their nemeses and maintain this as a bargaining chip.

On the other hand China and S Korea retain benefit of the ultimate strawman which helps them to delfect domestic criticism any time that flares up.

My college roommate works for the US Dept of State and we have spoken several times on the subject. He said it is quite common for governments to have back channel discussions in order to maintain status quo to manipulate public opinion. He did not say that is definitely happening here, but he was clear that it wouldn't surprise him a bit if theiy have a mutual agreement to play ticky tack in the middle without ever committing to anything final which would negate any mutual advantages.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Abe has no balls to apologize to anybody. He contradicts himself by saying it was the past generation that did the bad deeds and his generation should not carry the burden to apologize. However he keeps going back to Yakusuni to "honor" the war criminals of the past generation for their bad deeds (mass atrocities). It is very obvious he speaks in both sides of his mouth and has no sincerity in what he says. A cunning poltician like Abe earns no repsect in the international community. He is really a liability to his country and people.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Abe has no balls to apologize to anybody.

False. It takes absolutely 'no balls' to simply write a written 'apology' just because the neighbors constantly demanded so like the previous PM's. However, it takes balls to issue a statement to finally end this nonsense once and for all and draw the line to separate which nations are willing to move forward and which nations (just two, as predicted) are going to run this overleveraged card that the Japanese population in general have grown tired of.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Japan doesn't need to "stop apologizing". Japan simply needs to stop apologizing to countries that refuse to accept it's apologies. The entire world excluding China and South Korea don't care if Japan apologizes any further or not.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@MrBum,

How else?

Go read some of the original documents held in the national archives. Even NARA in the USA states that the problem is not that there is not evidence, but that no one uses them.

Those blogs, and the links "Christopher" regularly spams are somewhere between luke warm and outright propaganda at best.

If I give you some direct references, will you go and double check them?

But, of course, you cannot because you cannot read Japanese.

Does that not mean you are just consuming a one sided accounts?

I suspect that the likes of you do not even know what the so called "revisionists" you scare monger about are actually saying, or what they are basing their arguments on."

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@newyorknewyork

First off, the question was whether Abe actually denied history. You don't have to go delving into archives to find evidence for that. Like Christopher said, a simple google search will lead you to quotes that indicate that Abe at the very least has doubts about accepted history, going so far as sending government reps to American text book publishers to pressure them into revising their text.

And that's really the problem. He and his nationalist friends just can't help leaving the issue alone. They believe Japan's history is tarnishing their reputation, but it's their comments and attempts to whitewash history that bothers people. They put themselves in a position where people understandably demand apologies or genuine acknowledgement, and then have the nerve to tell their victims to let it go.

As for your documents, I can read Japanese so I would at least skim through anything you have. But if they're so ground breaking, why haven't they been translated to English for the rest of the world? Do you really think other historians that can read Japanese haven't seen them? International consensus is based on the opinions of a large group of experts from all different backgrounds. I find it interesting that the only people going against the consensus on Japan's wartime history are Japanese scholars on the fringe... And right-wing politicians who really should leave history to the historians.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

First off, the question was whether Abe actually denied history. You don't have to go delving into archives to find evidence for that. Like Christopher said, a simple google search will lead you to quotes that indicate that Abe at the very least has doubts about accepted history, going so far as sending government reps to American text book publishers to pressure them into revising their text.

I like this work. It uses common sense which is sorely lacking in this issue.

http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~akoz/History/SettledHistory.pdf

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Here's an idea. The PM go to Seoul and / or Beijing. Put his hand on his heart & in heart felt, not crocodile, tears say he's really sorry & in unison the whole Japanese nation respond in a loud AMEN. Someone ought to smile there.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@nigelboy

I've only read the first 5 pages, but already I see some flaws. The writer seems to think the number of 200,000 comfort women is too high, but the textbook he quotes does say "up to" 200,000. Also if you accept that the Japanese soldiers wouldn't have a problem killing unpaid sex slaves or letting them die (thus requiring less resources to care for them) and that not all the women serviced 20 to 30 men a day (so the soldiers weren't in bed all day), that number being the total for the entire war period doesn't seem unreasonable. It's one woman for every 10 soldiers by his own numbers.

He also asks a lot of unanswerable questions like "Why would Japan use sex slaves when everyone else used voluntary prostitutes?" and "Why were the soldiers so brutal to the women when there are reports of how civilized they were to some prisoners?" Who knows why? Questions like that don't really prove anything.

I'll try reading the rest later but again, historians can argue about the details. As long as the majority agree that atrocities occurred, its not the place of the prime minister of the nation that started the war to nitpick the details about the rape of thousands of women.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan simply needs to stop apologizing to countries that refuse to accept it's apologies.

Again, allowing politicians to deny things like the sex slaves, war agression etc - which Japan has "apologised" for, cancels out the apologies - because they look insincere.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Christopher GlenAug. 22, 2015 - 05:50PM JST "Japan simply needs to stop apologizing to countries that refuse to accept it's apologies."

Again, allowing politicians to deny things like the sex slaves, war agression etc - which Japan has "apologised" for, >cancels out the apologies - because they look insincere.

"Allowing"??? This isn't the People's Republic of China where expressing a position or view counter to the official Government one is an offense that can be prosecuted. In a Democracy people have the right to have and to express their own views regardless of what they are. This is the illogical ad faulty argument of those who use various independent comments made by various politicians as "proof" that the official Japanese Government position is "not sincere". The only position that counts is the one offered by the J-government.

Sex Slaves- you mean Military Prostitutes. The United States has found no evidence of abduction or slavery apart from the Dutch Indonesia incident which was already prosecuted, tried and convicted. War Aggression- Already prosecuted, tried and convicted at the International Tribunal for the Far East. Japan has apologized anywhere from 17 to 40 times depending on what western news source you ask.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink". Yes, I must have overestimated your abilities. So I will show you some of what I effortlessly found on Google https://globalvoicesonline.org/2015/05/31/what-does-abes-ignorance-of-the-potsdam-declaration-actually-mean/. http://www.japanfocus.org/-alexis-dudden/2368/article.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/shinzo-abes-inability-to-face-history/2013/04/26/90f5549c-ae87-11e2-a986-eec837b1888b_story.html

"global voices" "washington times opinions" lol nice proof. Guess since your citing opinions as proof, I'll just cite myself on this one:

Abe has never denied warcrimes.

Proof: http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/63-say-japan-should-stop-apologizing-over-war-poll

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The REAL question is when has the Imperial Japanese Government ever FORMALLY apologized for the war (I'll answer: NEVER)?

Singular "apologies" by singular government officials on foreign soil don't count as apologies by Japan, especially since every time singular government officials "apologize", the J-Government not only distances itself from such "apologies", but it also demands an "explanation" from said singular government officials who made the "apology" in the first place when s/he comes home.

The Article Headline SHOULD state "63% say Singular Government Officials of Japan Should Stop Apologizing" (because they should: their "apologies" are basically meaningless)....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@NathalieB

The question is not stopping apologizing. The question is stopping rescinding all the apologies already made. THATS why they have to keep coming back and apologizing again.

What you say is similar to how China claims to have upped their game as a result of the Nationalization of the Senkakus in 2012. But Nationalization of the Senkakus happened in response to the Senkaku boat collision incident of 2010.

Koizumi did infact visit Yasukuni in 2001, but he apologized in 2005 with the Koizumi Danwa, which was recognized by S. Korea as a good gesture. Yet President Roh really turned up the apology demanding 1 year later in 2006.

Furthermore, President Lee really upped his game when he started losing grasp of the people, and this was during the DPJ days, and DPJ were not revisionists (mind you former PM Hatoyama just went to Korea to apologize again).

I think the voice of the 63% came as a result of Japanese people getting sick and tired of the kind of "spins" like the one you're pulling.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@nigelboy

Very nice article. Never crossed my mind that Ukraine and Japan had something in common.

It is indeed Japanese tragedy to have a neighbor nation which how this russian professor quoted in the conclusion "a nation suffering from a combination of inferiority complex, extreme national ambition and a sense of victimhood provided a basis for envy and demonisation".

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Jason, Japan has formally apologized according to its manners and protocols.

Nothing will even satisfy the Chinese, that's the whole point.

It's just a smeer campaign. A propaganda war.

China steps up propaganda war on Japan

China has embarked on a major propaganda campaign, including plans to mark the 'rape of Nanjing’ in new national holiday, to discredit Japan on the world stage

Beijing is waging a major propaganda war against Tokyo, using the media to contrast Germany’s atonement for the war to what Beijing sees as Japan’s failure to adequately apologise for its role in Second World War

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10662966/China-steps-up-propaganda-war-on-Japan.html

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The REAL question is when has the Imperial Japanese Government ever FORMALLY apologized for the war (I'll answer: NEVER)?

They were sort of disbanded right after the war so unless Japan reforms the Imperial Japanese government, that'll never happen.

2 ( +2 / -1 )

The problem is not that Japan already apologized that but Japan is denying war atrocities. How can you claim you've apologized for things that you are denying that you did?????

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Now you are just moving the goal posts.

Japan is not denying war attrocities either. It's rejecting all the exaggerated propaganda and racism being thrown its way.

For the rest of the world, it's now clear what the Chinese agenda is (land grabs) and what the Korea agenda is (compensation and damaging Japanese brands to promote Korean competitive brands).

Regarding the Yaukuni, I think their criticism would appear more rational if they were just to criticize the Japanese for "believing in fairies". Not creating a big drama because ex-soldiers were turned into fairies.

That's how daft it looks, "We don't want Japan to make fairies out of its old generals!".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Jason, Japan has formally apologized according to its manners and protocols.

Nothing will even satisfy the Chinese, that's the whole point.

It's just a (smear) campaign. A propaganda war. ---Back@home

Japan has apologized according to its manners and protocols? And you seriously expect the rest of the world to accept that as legitimate? Germany went far above and beyond the scope if its protocols in its apologies to its neighbors, and has been lauded for doing so. What about Japan? Still scorned by the rest of the world for her veneration of war criminals in Yasukuni and absolutely no documented apology whatsoever from the Imperial Japanese Government. As far as a sear campaign, why does it always come to that sort of nonsense? You do realize, don't you, Back@home, that China suffered under Japanese occupation? Historians Anthony Beevor, John Keegan, and others have tallied Chinese deaths at the hands of the IJA at nine million. And let's not even get to the topic of Nanjing and the massacre and orgy of blood that the IJA engaged in there. I think with nine million of their people being slaughtered in less than ten years, the Chinese have a legitimate beef and right to have "nothing satisfy them", short of a documented apology, drafted by one or both houses and signed by the Prime Minister, Cabinet, and Emperor. Korea, Philippines, Indonesia, Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and India deserve similar. And really, that's all that these governments want: an official document of apology, drafted by the Parliament, and signed by the same offices and Imperial Household that signed the war declarations nearly eighty years ago.

Keep telling yourself that Japan has done its duty and apologized. As long as a document of such drafted and signed by the Imperial Japanese Government remains undelivered, Japan's "apologies" are simply hollow words and spitting in the wind. Japan should take her cue from Germany, adult up, and do the right thing. Really.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

an official document of apology, drafted by the Parliament, and signed by the same offices and Imperial Household that signed the war declarations nearly eighty years ago.

Anything statement from the "Parliament" (Diet), are simply resolutions that are non binding and does not carry an "official" position of the government. If you seek one, you can enjoy the one that was approved in June of 1995 during the Murayama cabinet.

http://www.ioc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~worldjpn/documents/texts/docs/19950609.O1J.html

If you are dead set on Emperor's seal of approval, those are followed by Cabinet Decisions which includes Murayama, Koizumi, and this current Abe statements.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Jason,

Japan regularly gets vote the safest place to live, the best cities to live in, the best place to visit on holiday, the best food. It only gets "scorned" by those whose habit or job it is to scorn it.

Nations don't suffer, they cannot suffer. It's all in your imagination. They are just rocks and earth and lines drawn on maps.

Nigel has given you your answer. I can only repeat my previous post and why I don't take any of it seriously.

Nothing will even satisfy the Communist Party propagandists, that's the whole point. It's just a smeer campaign for political gain.

China steps up propaganda war on Japan

Beijing is waging a major propaganda war against Tokyo, using the media to contrast Germany’s atonement for the war to what Beijing sees as Japan’s failure to adequately apologise for its role in Second World War

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10662966/China-steps-up-propaganda-war-on-Japan.html

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

nigelboy --- There's not one word of apology in that document you linked. Glad that Japan has learned its lessons form the past. Glad that they - the government - recognize the pain and suffering caused. But recognition doesn't equal an apology. Try again, sir. With regards to the Diet having no authority in statements, their declarations of war against their neighbors and the USA seemed to mean something, as did the prime minister of the time, and his cabinet, and the emperor approving such. If it meant that much that all were involved in the process then, it should be happening now with a documented, formal apology.

Back@home --- Irrelevant to the subject at hand. I am well aware of Japan's safety and the greatness of their cities. I lived there for twelve years, and enjoyed every minute of it. None of that has anything to do with Japan's need to draw up a document of apology to her neighbors by her government, have it signed, and formally delivered to each and every pone of the countries that felt the boot of Japan's Imperial Military during World War Two. And with all due respect to nigelboy, he answered nothing, provided nothing, and proved nothing.........which is what Japan's singular government officials' words of "apology" pretty much are: nothing. And the correct spelling is, with all due respect, "smear". When a nation is basically brutalized to the tune of nine million of its citizens being murdered, I can understand the tensions that arise when a neighboring nation - the one that did the brutalizing - simply refuses to even recognize her part in that brutalization, let alone apologize for it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

There's not one word of apology in that document you linked

Lost in translation. This argument has been used before. So to end it, how would you word it in Japanese so that it's an apology?

With regards to the Diet having no authority in statements, their declarations of war against their neighbors and the USA seemed to mean something, as did the prime minister of the time, and his cabinet, and the emperor approving such. If it meant that much that all were involved in the process then, it should be happening now with a documented, formal apology.

Not comprehending as usual.

1)Diet's approved statements are 'resolutions'. The approved resolutions don't follow with a cabinet approval nor approval from the IHA.

2) Cabinet approved statements which are Cabinet decisions, are recorded and archived in both MOFA and Prime Ministers Cabinet office. These decisions are submitted to IHA for Emperors Seal.

So what do you want? Another #1?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Jason Lovelace

It's completely revelent to counter the habitual and exaggerated hatchet jobs given to Japan's culture by individuals who I would suspect have never lived there.

Including the use of misleading language like "murdered".

For the reason mentioned time and time again, no apology will even be good enough for the parties involved simple for the fact that they don't want an apology, ever. They don't want a solution.

They want to keep exploiting the situation politically and economically (grabbing land and damaging Japan's oversea trade) for as long and as far as they can.

Unless you get that, there's no point considering anything else. Arguing over the deals, the rights and wrongs, is a waste of time.

It's not about that. It's about brand damage and weakening political and military support for Japan.

And, to be frank, you are inarguable misrepresenting the facts of WWII, the facts as they stand (re refusal/denial), and the even the full conduct of the IJA.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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