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Abe says time for talk is over with North Korea

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I hope you see now that American military / geopolitical expansionism is no better then Chinese territorial expansionism. 

It's sad how anti-Americanism causes people to loose all sense of proportion like this. When the US was kicked out of the Philippines in the 90s they left quietly and on schedule. I don't see China doing the same despite literally losing their absurd claims at a UN tribunal.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

cleoToday 07:50 am JST

 having military bases at the invitation of the host country

It's called 'having no other option'.

ARTICLE X

This Treaty shall remain in force until in the opinion of the Governments ofJapan
and the United States of America there shall have come into force such United Nations arrangements as will satisfactorily provide for the maintenance of international peace and security in the Japan area. However, after the Treaty has been in force for ten years, either Party may give notice to the other Party of its intention to terminate the Treaty, in
which case the Treaty shall terminate one year after such notice has been given.

TREATY OF MUTUAL COOPERATION AND SECURITY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND JAPAN (JANUARY 19, 1960)

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/ps/japan/mutual_cooperation_treaty.pdf

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“Why don't you go look up "Territorial Expansion". Has NOTHING to do with number of bases.”

Oh please stop clutching at straws Ossan , just stop already...territorial expansion has nothing to do with number of bases ....the laughter has us in stitches here.

Hope you remember this " miltary base does not equal expansion" jewel next time you get all fuming about the maritime bases China is building and demand a stop to their "expansionism ". But of course selective memory is a wonderful thing , ain't it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

Everything you're babbling about has nothing to do with "expansionism".

Let's try this again. One example, I hope you'll be able to understand my point at last without any more babbling about no American expansionism.

Some mafioso can rob you out of your house and live there himself. Or after robbing you out of your property some mafioso can give it to one of his underlings, using only one room of the house for his personal needs. China with its nine-dash line is the mafioso number 1, USA is the mafioso number 2. The US robbed Serbia of its territory (Kosovo), giving it to its underlings, creating Kosovan narcostate. The US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, handing it to its local underlings ("democratically elected governments"), using derectly only one room of the stolen property (military bases). Oh yes, after the American occupation the production of opiun in Afghanistan skyrocketed (some estimate it now tenfold then in 2001, before the invasion), thus making my comparison to mafioso even more suitable.

I hope you see now that American military / geopolitical expansionism is no better then Chinese territorial expansionism. I'm not in any way a supporter of the Chinese nine-dash line, but Chinese al least do not bomb and invade other countries now, killing dozens of thousands of people in the process.

The Ukraine is an issue involving Russia.

Russia did not stage the neonazi coup d'etat in Ukraine in 2014, the US did. It makes the US an accomplice in the start of the civil war there.

In North Korea the populace are taught that they are still at war and the Peninsula must be reunited through a victory over South Korea

I hope you can distinguish official propaganda and real policy. Deeds, not words, that matters.

If North Korea were content with the status quo they would not be advancing their nuclear capability.

You seriously think Northern nukes are against the South, that Kim will nuke South before uniting with it? OK, let's do it one more time. Up to early 2000s there were very lenghty, very difficult negotiations about NK giving up its military nuclear program in exchange for Western aid. The negotiations were making very slow, very little progress. But then Bush decided to invade Iraq, the country that had given up its WMD programs. Then NATO invaded Libya - after Qaddafi gave up his nuclear program in exchange for western guarantees. It taught Kim a very hard lesson: never give up the nukes whatever the Wesr says, or you'll be next mark. Now the Fatty will develop his nukes and ballistic missiles whatever the cost, and America (and Japan) have to "thank" only Bush and Obama for their idiocy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Maybe it would be helpful to read from the DPRK official webpage into the philosophy underpinning Juche/Songun ideology.

There is no wiggle room for compromise. The cult of personality is written large through the pursuit of isolationism. In the event of reunification, SK democratic government would face extinction, SK population would have to succumb to the same political dogmatism, imposed under the threat of torture/summary executions. The government of Japan, its people, are loathed and despised.   

Songun Politics.....

http://www.korea-dpr.com/songun.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There have been talks with NK since Clinton was president and it didn't do any good. Why bother talking to a liar? What is the point? Are the charity agencies going to be allowed to distribute food directly to the hungry? Will the gulags be closed? Will families be allowed to visit? Not as long as the NK dictatorship can hold them hostage.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China needs to deceive countries to put bases in them, while the United States gets invited.

Hmm, pretty sure Syria and Iraq didn't send out invitation letters. Who in the world believes such drivel? You really must study the Monroe doctrine, manifest destiny. Should clear up lots!!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

To defend against the destruction of such a government is to argue against the liberation of millions of North Korean people enslaved and crushed under the sadistic heals of Kim and his cronies

I don't recall Trump saying anything about liberating millions of North Koreans. I did hear him rant about totally destroying the country. Presumably with those millions of people still in it.

 having military bases at the invitation of the host country

It's called 'having no other option'. The US bases in Japan for example are supposedly here by invitation of the Japanese government, but the hard fact is that they came after the war as an occupying force, dug in and are still here. The theory is that they will leave if and when requested by the host nation, but the US military couldn't even bring itself to heed the request of the Japanese government to stop flying wonky Ospreys over sovereign Japanese territory; and the Japanese government claims it cannot restrict noisy military night flights because Japan has no authority over the US bases. PM Hatoyama was driven from office when the US refused to budge on the issue of bases in Okinawa.

So much for being here at the invitation of the host country. Invitation so long as you 'invite' them to do what they want.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

North Korea has stated clearly that their nuclear and missile advancement is NOT NEGOTIABLE. Therefore just exactly what kind of "dialogue" is an option?

When they get their weapons, then dialogue will be the only option :)

Sri Lanka got suckered into it 

Don't forget Djibouti. Maybe the list would grow, who knows.

while the United States gets invited.

Iraqis didn't invite the US.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Dictatorship of North Korea holds every principal and charter of the United Nations in contempt. The Dictatorship of North Korea despises any democratic system of government, or human rights, even in the most basic form. In fact Supreme leader Kim Jong-un, (the moniker is a dead give-away) has a proven disregard and contempt for the foundation of freedom, justice and peace.

It is unmitigated pig-ignorance to suggest that the Dictatorship of North Korea, its Supreme leader Kim Jong-un has any wish or desire to maintain what could elucidate to be the status quo.

Pyongyang ultimate political agenda and ideology is through the threat of nuclear devastation, the removal of all US political influence and military presence from the entire region, reunification with South Korea under the heel of Supreme leader Kim Jong-un and his barbarous regime to expand tyranny and oppression by rule of fear.

Those 150 or so military bases, supported by a network of listening posts, are there to make sure that Pyongyang regime, in-cahoots with other Governments and individuals that cynically exploit the purpose and presence of those US forward bases never undermine the rights, freedoms, liberties of a global community that supports the sentiment of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, that the time for dialogue is well and truly over.

Many would not support Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe politically or economically but to sneer at him for his call for unity is totally unjustfied. I won't be voting for Abe san LDP candidate if snap election is called, change is as good as a rest. However I fully support Prime Minister Shinzo Abe standing up and stating the obvious

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Abe talked with Trump people in Japanese. Then Trump's translator said. that in English. It seems Moon is ignored now.

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flowersToday  02:16 am JST

OssanAmerica, “Why don't you go look up "Territorial Expansion". Has NOTHING to do with number of bases.”

They got you on this one. Military bases are considered to be a loss of sovereignty. Think about the logic here why do you think the US needs to have bases in over 150 countries? And those bases are not small and they have their own rules and laws. More like US police stations? In time of conflict, they can in fact take control of the whole country.

Another one of the CCP club who can't discern the difference between a military base existing at the invitation of the host country, and unilaterally expanding territorial borders creating conflicts and disputes.

Whining about the fact that the U.S. has bases all over the world at the INVITATION of the host governments does not put China's ridiculous 9-Dash Line, building of artificial islands and militarizing them at he expense of conflict and dispute with other nations on the same category. Ask yourself how many countries would invite the Chinese PLA to build a base in their country. Sri Lanka got suckered into it because hey foolishly agreed to Chinese financing of a port construction, couldn't meet the payments, and now the Chinese, who freely mix commercial and military issues are going to turn it into a Chinese PLAN base. China needs to deceive countries to put bases in them, while the United States gets invited.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Media is discussing about Japan but ignoring S Korea crisis.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Moon and Trump discussion was first. Trump talked and Korean interpreted, Moon listened. Moon talked, Korean interpreted in her English and these action were repeated.

Abe and his people finally showed. Japanese had Abe's speech all said by female fluent English.

All Japanese took earphone away. Abe had final speech using his California accented English. All. American attendees understood Abe.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OssanAmerica, “Why don't you go look up "Territorial Expansion". Has NOTHING to do with number of bases.” They got you on this one. Military bases are considered to be a loss of sovereignty. Think about the logic here why do you think the US needs to have bases in over 150 countries? And those bases are not small and they have their own rules and laws. More like US police stations? In time of conflict, they can in fact take control of the whole country.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Wallace FredSep. 21  03:15 pm JST

Why don't you take a look at a map - how many military bases in how many countries does the US have? and then get back to us.

On second thoughts I,ll save you the trouble - the US is deployed in over 150 countries worldwide.

No, not one bit expansionist.....they are just there to help "protect freedom".

PREACH!!!

Why don't you go look up "Territorial Expansion". Has NOTHING to do with number of bases.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Asakaze

Today 12:29 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

Can you name what part of the world the United States is laying a claim upon

A good part of the world, because the US recently invaded or were behind overthrowing of foreign governments quite a number of times. Exactly that behavior urged Kims to stop denuclearization talks in early 2000s and go for the nuclear option.

Let's try this again. Please name what part of he world the United States is laying claim upon and backing it up with military force. The U.S. is NOT laying claim to a "good part of he world". Everything you're babbling about has nothing to do with "expansionism".

Private industries benefitting from geopolitics is not the same as territorial expansionism

We were talking about who gains what, right? China's expansionism in the region is territorial, American expansionism is military \ geopolitical. 

No we are not talking about gains, we are talking about territorial expansionism. The 9-dash line, South China Sea artificial islands and their militarization are issues involving China. The Ukraine is an issue involving Russia.

Korean Peninsula under their rule, a clear change to the status quo.

The idea of unification of the Korean peninsula is officially embraced by both sides, in South Korea there is even a Ministry of Unification. 

Wrong again. In South Korea there is a Ministry of Reunification to advance reunification through peaceful means. In North Korea the populace are taught that they are still at war and the Peninsula must be reunited through a victory over South Korea. If North Korea were content with the status quo they would not be advancing their nuclear capability. The US withdrew nuclear weapons from South Korea back in 1991.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

marcelitoToday 11:48 am JSTNorth Korea has stated clearly that their nuclear and missile advancement is NOT NEGOTIABLE. Therefore just exactly what kind of "dialogue" is an option?

The one that Russia and China are proposing - stopping the annual US / SK war games that NK continually sees as preparation for invasion drills , in exchange for freezing NK nuclear program. ( If China and Russia pushed that forward with the West on board NK would have no option but to make their program "negotiable).

No you're wrong. There is no guarantee that (1) North Koreas would agree and (2) no gurarntee that even if they agreed would comply based on their behavior over the past few decades.

marcelitoToday 11:57 am JSTCan you name what part of the world the United States is laying a claim upon as their own and backing it up with militarily force? If not, no the U.S. is not expansionist.

Bwahaha...,thats some comedy gold you came up with here, thanks for the laugh

If you cannot understand the difference between territorial expansion, a source of conflict and dispute, as opposed to having military bases at the invitation of the host country, there's nothing to be laughing about.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

You can't talk to someone who is not talking!

Believe me! I'm married!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why don't you take a look at a map - how many military bases in how many countries does the US have? and then get back to us.

On second thoughts I,ll save you the trouble - the US is deployed in over 150 countries worldwide.

No, not one bit expansionist.....they are just there to help "protect freedom".

PREACH!!!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Everyone wants to talk smack about the USA and Japan. And, while there are many fine reasons to do so, none of these reasons compare to the evil of North Korea's government. To defend against the destruction of such a government is to argue against the liberation of millions of North Korean people enslaved and crushed under the sadistic heals of Kim and his cronies. Who here does not dream of liberating the North Korean people from the nightmare of their murderous dictator and his sycophants?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

keep talking please

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The hawks of the (first) G.W. Bush Administration brought us to this point, by cancelling deals and engaging in tough talk and chest-beating instead of diplomacy, which they allowed to wither. From that point, N. Korea went full-throttle on nuke and missile development, unchecked. And where are those hawks now? Well, one of them (who has the same first name as the current US president) is running around with a highly-coveted medal that was awarded him in Nov. of 2015 by ... the Abe administration. Go figure!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@cucashopboy

Abe wasn't the Prime Minister but he was the leader of a powerful faction and in 2003 he bacame Secretary General of the LDP using his anti-North-Korean platform to gain popularity

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Keep everyone scared Abe

1 ( +3 / -2 )

what a great photo to show Abe's relevance

Sure is, photojournalism award material me thinks! Dude getting back to his seat is priceless. Poor Abe (and I mean it).

"- Whose turn is it?

huh... Abe

who?

Abe, the J guy

That's lunch!"
0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan and the U.S. are bad, I know.

Meanwhile in North Korea.....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korean-defector-describes-witnessing-11-musicians-executed-anti-aircraft-guns-134800965.html

How relevant? If true shows a very unhinged leader in the North

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

Can you name what part of the world the United States is laying a claim upon

A good part of the world, because the US recently invaded or were behind overthrowing of foreign governments quite a number of times. Exactly that behavior urged Kims to stop denuclearization talks in early 2000s and go for the nuclear option.

Private industries benefitting from geopolitics is not the same as territorial expansionism

We were talking about who gains what, right? China's expansionism in the region is territorial, American expansionism is military \ geopolitical. 

have maintained the goal of reunifying the Korean Peninsula under their rule, a clear change to the status quo.

The idea of unification of the Korean peninsula is officially embraced by both sides, in South Korea there is even a Ministry of Unification. In reality both sides dread the unification, South is afraid of the colossal economical cost, Northern party cadres are afraid of becoming irrelevant in the united capitalist Korea. In fact both sides are content with the status quo, but after lessons of Iraq and Libya Kim wants to secure it with nukes.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I wonder if any of the sanctions you hear threated would extend to money filtering back from the pachinko places.. If really concerned about funds making their way back to the coffers of NK, then maybe plug the flow from the pachinko's. Or would that impact on too many politicians pockets due to dodgy ties.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Can you name what part of the world the United States is laying a claim upon as their own and backing it up with militarily force? If not, no the U.S. is not expansionist.

Bwahaha...,thats some comedy gold you came up with here, thanks for the laugh

It would be much easier to name parts of the world that the US is not laying claims upon ( without saying so much with words - obviously ).

Why don't you take a look at a map - how many military bases in how many countries does the US have? and then get back to us.

On second thoughts I,ll save you the trouble - the US is deployed in over 150 countries worldwide.

No, not one bit expansionist.....they are just there to help "protect freedom".

2 ( +6 / -4 )

North Korea has stated clearly that their nuclear and missile advancement is NOT NEGOTIABLE. Therefore just exactly what kind of "dialogue" is an option?

The one that Russia and China are proposing - stopping the annual US / SK war games that NK continually sees as preparation for invasion drills , in exchange for freezing NK nuclear program. ( If China and Russia pushed that forward with the West on board NK would have no option but to make their program "negotiable).

Of course, since this was proposed by Russians and Chinese it is naturally "unacceptable " to the US / Japan hawks. Better talk about "total destruction " and "blockade " of NK - because that shows "strong leadership " and improves domestic poll numbers.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Abe really is Trump's lap dog. Trump talked about toughening trade deals with Japan and making Japan defend itself and Abe was at his door kissing his daughter's hand before Trump was even sworn in. This NK crisis is just what Abe needed to (a) boost his falling popularity (b) smooth out changing the constitution. Odd that last year Abe could only talk about Chinese aggression in the South China Sea but now it's not such a problem? China will use this opportunity to expand it's influence in the region whilst Japan is tied militarily to the moron that is leading the US at the moment. Sad that Japan's defacto military leader is Trump and the Japanese public are fine with it. Or at least not voicing their displeasure.

Last time I looked NK and SK were still at war, why wouldn'T NK boost it's defenses when the US president directly threatens their regime. US leadership(?) needs to stop taking blue pills and employ some smart strategists.

I live in hope.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

AsakazeToday 11:13 am JST@OssanAmerica

The reason that China and Russia are making it difficult is that both nations are expansionist and are looking to see what they can gain out of North Korea

You mean the US is not expansionist and America has nothing to gain out of the present situation?

Can you name what part of the world the United States is laying a claim upon as their own and backing it up with militarily force? If not, no the U.S. is not expansionist.

Hardly. The US military-industrial complex is already benefitting (THAAD for South Korea and Japan). 

Private industries benefitting from geopolitics is not the same as territorial expansionism.

 The U.S., as well as South Korea and Japan simply want the status quo to be preserved

Roughly the same can be said about North Korea. Kim also wants to keep the status quo, to keep his regime intact.

Wrong. Neither the United States nor South Korea have taken any action against North Kore since the end of the Korean War in 1951. In contrast North Korea has carried out attacks on South Korea and have maintained the goal of reunifying the Korean Peninsula under their rule, a clear change to the status quo.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Hello Kitty 321 - Abe wasn't in power when Japan scuppered the six nations talks in 2009, which actually were producing concrete results. But as you said, the reason was Japan's insistence on putting the abduction issue ahead of a nuclear-free North Korea.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

The reason that China and Russia are making it difficult is that both nations are expansionist and are looking to see what they can gain out of North Korea

You mean the US is not expansionist and America has nothing to gain out of the present situation? Hardly. The US military-industrial complex is already benefitting (THAAD for South Korea and Japan).  

The U.S., as well as South Korea and Japan simply want the status quo to be preserved

Roughly the same can be said about North Korea. Kim also wants to keep the status quo, to keep his regime intact. The problem is that after overthrowing of Saddam and Qaddafi he clearly understands that the only reliable means of securing his regime from outside forceful "changes" are the nukes and ballistic missiles. And Kim will never repeat the mistakes of Saddam and Qaddafi who surrendered their nuclear programs in exchange for Western sweet talk. I hate to admit it, but Kim's actions are very logical, if you want security - get nukes.  The US is reaping the fruits of its recent criminal aggressions against Iraq and Libya, and Japan is a collateral victim of that situation.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Dialog is over when you test fire missles over the territory of a soverign nation.

NK has an extortion rachet which gives this failed state billions in exchange for not blowing up the world. Its time to face this threat to peace now before one of these "tests" fail and end up landing on SK or Japanese city.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

That's just stupid, there can be no resolution to the problem without discussion. It was Abe's fault that the previous talks broke down anyway, with his insistence on talking about the abductees when everybody else was trying to talk about nuclear weapons. He doesn't give a damn about anything but his personal agenda

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

ThePBotToday 10:35 am JSTAbe says time for talk is over with North Korea

No it's not. Dialogue is always an option.

North Korea has stated clearly that their nuclear and missile advancement is NOT NEGOTIABLE. Therefore just exactly what kind of "dialogue" is an option?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Abe says time for talk is over with North Korea

No it's not. Dialogue is always an option.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Abe is prepared to use Nippon's 'secret weapon' against NK?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Send in the Ninjas.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Abe like Trump and like Obama before him, is full of hot air. Abe said after the first ICBM was fired over Japan, he would order the next one shot down and what happen when the next one was fired over Japan? ... NOTHING! ... Thinking it maybe time to pack up and moved back to Australia, 20 years in Japan and the place is slowly going down the toilet.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"The time for talk is over! So, please, everyone do something for us!"

So, what's Abe going to go HIMSELF now that he has no options but to ask others for help, then try to pretend they have no choice when they do? At least he had about the right attendance level for his style of debate. And half of them are talking amongst themselves about other things, and Mugabe is probably still asleep.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"Now is not the time for dialogue. Now is the time to apply pressure," and his brain of warmonger to be reshuffled, too!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Abe said Japan, a treaty ally of the United States, consistently supported the U.S. stance that "all options are on the table" in dealing with North Korea.

if ever anyone had doubts about Abe,s colors here they are on full display.....nothing like your own little pre- emptive strikes action / mini war on TV screens to capture headlines and improve got ratings along with election numbers.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Wow that auditorium does look quite empty, wonder what the story is?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Peter K

more like 80% empty

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Are nukes weapons or deterrents? The US always used to describe theirs as deterrents and any with a whiff of communism as weapons.

It seems, like so many other things, to have changed. It seems Kim has the nuclear deterrent and Trump the nuclear weapon. Life has become so Orwellian.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The reason that China and Russia are making it difficult is that both nations are expansionist and are looking to see what they can gain out of North Korea having cornered the US and it's allies up against a wall. I am 100% sure that China would shut NK down in the bat of an eyelash if the US agreed it would recognize the 9-Dash Line. Likewise Russia would quickly cooperate if the US agreed to recognize the Ukraine as Russian. The U.S., as well as South Korea and Japan simply want the status quo to be preserved without anybody making gains.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

It is China and Russia that are making the solution difficult.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Was it during a lunch break?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

What's wrong with dialog?

Nothing when it leads to something productive and to agreements that are kept and not tossed aside when it suits your fancy.

How many more decades of dialog are necessary with NK? While everyone who preaches dialog, wring their hands after the fact and ask, "How did we get to this point" when NK has nuclear tipped ICBM's pointed at them?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Half of the seats empty.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Chicken hawk squawks to a near empty auditorium.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

My bad, I didn't read the "not" till after I posted. I retract my post, bow deeply, and humbly beg the forgiveness of other JT posters as I vow to try my best not to disappoint them in the future.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

What's wrong with dialog?

2 ( +11 / -9 )

North Korea's statements have always been overblown. That talk is not a threat so much as a dialect. North Korea's nuclear missiles are for preservation of the state. They know that using them first would be suicide, which makes them nearly irrelevant as a threat. Dialogues should continue in order to address human rights and cultivate the long term well being of the North Korean people, however far that might be.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

So, Super Mario is spouting aspersions hot on the heels hot on the heels of US president Grump's statements.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Abe says time for talk is over with North Korea

"Now is not the time for dialogue.

Come on now, which is it?

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Nothing new, it's the game plan.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

what a great photo to show Abe's relevance

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Now is not the time for dialogue. Now is the time to apply pressure," Abe told a gathering of investors at the New York Stock Exchange, remarks he later reiterated in an address to the annual United Nations General Assembly.

I for one would have wished to hear Abe give his speech BEFORE the bombast of Trump. Bet he would be singing a different tune.

Abe's speech is going to play well back at home, and will jack his poll numbers up further, as the people will think that he is being a "strong-leader" by making a speech like this. Without realizing that he damn well wouldn't have said the same thing if Trump didn't have his back!

5 ( +12 / -7 )

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