politics

Competing claims make northeast Asian sea a flashpoint

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By Josh Smith

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It belongs to Northeast Asia.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

China said the area where Tuesday's patrol occurred was not territorial airspace and that all countries enjoyed freedom of movement in it.

Yes, just like in the South China Seas. It is not Chinese territorial waters and all countries enjoy freedom of movement in it.

"The message is, the Russo-Chinese 'strategic partnership' is now a force to be reckoned with militarily in East Asia," he said.

A balance of powers in the region means peace. Keep sponsoring the testing of missiles by NK. The US-Japan Alliance will not go away.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The patch of ocean is commonly known as the Sea of Japan, but South Korea argues it should be known by the more neutral name the East Sea.

Why does Western media perpetually caters to this nonsense. Let Korea call it whatever they like. But all the other nations that border it, China, Russia and Japan call it the Sea of Japan/Japan Sea. In China, their "East Sea" refers to the East China Sea. Another example of a certain country's inferiority complex.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

quercetum, terrorist countries are not allowed.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@OssanAmerica

Why does Western media perpetually caters to this nonsense. Let Korea call it whatever they like. 

Because they are afraid of their email servers and social media being hammered by pro-South Korean internet activists both in SK and in the US.

I don't know how things stand on that front these days, but in the past there were government sponsored groups like the unfortunately names VANK hammering press and media in the West over such issues. Google submitted to them. The Wikipedia was one of their battlefields. Most major news outlets went through a phase of it.

There used to be one of them who used to specialize in graphic online death threats against Japanese individuals, posting literally 1,000s of them in an attempt to act as a chilling effect.

For many it was a full-time job.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@OssanJapan

let Korea call it whatever they like. But all the other nations that border it, China, Russia and Japan call it the Sea of Japan/Japan Sea. In China, their "East Sea" refers to the East China Sea.

The name "Sea of Japan" is extremely unpopular at Global Stage. At IHO, there is single country that supports this name, Japan, while the majority back "Sea Of Japan/East Sea" dual listing.

So the IHO gave Japan an ultimatum earlier this year; either agree with Korea for a name change by next year, or the IHO will unilaterally delete the name "Sea of Japan" off the map and leave it nameless.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0005487761

8:46 pm, January 18, 2019

The Yomiuri Shimbun

the government is reluctant to hold talks on revising the guidelines as it could result in both the Sea of Japan and the East Sea being used in conjunction. However, there are fears that Japan could be backed into a severe situation as the IHO has shown a tough stance, according to sources.

As part of its efforts, the IHO secretariat has urged Tokyo, Seoul and Pyongyang — which has made claims similar to those of South Korea — to hold informal discussions by the time the 2020 meeting is held.

According to diplomatic sources, while Japan was reluctant to accept the request, the secretariat strongly demanded last autumn that if Japan did not agree to hold talks, it might consider not simply revising the guidelines but scrapping them altogether. For that reason, the government is believed to be making arrangements to agree to hold the discussions.

The sea's name if Japan agrees to a name revision in 2020 : "Sea Of Japan/East Sea"

The sea's name if Japan refuses to agree to a name revision in 2020 : ""

Given the current diplomatic fall out between Korea and Japan, the Sea of Japan name is a goner next year. It will now become nameless with people referring locations by latitude/longitude, with "Sea of Japan" name becoming a local name used only in Japan.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Note reference to VANK campaign on these pages:

http://www.prkorea.com/english/e_truth/e_truth6_1.htm

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/08/koreas-cyber-vigilantes/

Are you part of it, Basu?

The name "Sea of Japan" is not "extremely unpopular at Global Stage" whatever that means in English. It was only ever "unpopular" with some Korean groups, amplified by this K-government sponsored student vigilante group.

Everyone else is the world was perfectly happy to stick with things as they have been.

One of the reason it became Sea of Japan is that the Koreans were not great sailors and the Chinese were forbidden from sailing during its inward looking history and so the sea was in fact dominated by Japanese until Westerners came to plunder the whales there.

The Koreans are being ridiculous babies as usual.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

It is the Sea of Japan both by geography and culture.

Tell South Koreans to stop whining and stop spreading their nonsense to other countries with misinformation propaganda. I've read that some Korean "American" dry cleaners in America had clothes bag with "Dodko" printed on them. Grow up!

3 ( +9 / -6 )

It was also not Japan that called it that.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

A flashing point - in a flash. With this region's historical, commercial, military and geographical proximity, surely makes for a terrible imbroglio for peace to flourish. One can feel the pent up anger and frustration that cries for release ...in a really bad way. We've made marvelous achievements as humanity, yet , peace eludes us. Just the simple act of meeting a neighbor and saying hello, a couple more words , a smile and perhaps a chuckle and be on our way. We had the 1st, the 2nd and we looked back and said never again. We are real close to the 3rd / 4th big one... depending. I ask again, is peace such a lofty subject for humanity ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is very comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima. Has any Japanese here thought about this discrepancy?

There is another small island called 'bamboo island' (Jukdo 竹島 in Korean) at 2 km (1 mile) east of Ulleungdo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukdo_(island)

You may see those abundant bamboos there: https://wayfaringflaneur.com/2018/09/02/jukdo%EC%A3%BD%EB%8F%84-bamboo-island/

Long times ago, Japanese fishermen certainly recognized the existence of Jukdo 竹島 near Ulleungdo island. At that time, Takeshima did not designate the Liancourt Rocks, but Jukdo to Japanese fishermen. Both Jukdo and Ulleungo are now Korean territories that Japan and the other countries acknowledge. Now the Japanese government claims the territorial right with a wrong name or a wrong location. Wake up. There is no bamboo in the Japanese 'Takeshima'.

There are 7 islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) along the coast of Japan, and all of them have bamboo. But only one exception is the remotely-located Liancourt Rocks,called 'Dokdo' in Korean, which literally means a rock island. Koreans knew it consisted of rocks, and therefore bamboo can not grow there. The so-called bamboo island without any bamboo was just an imaginary island for Japan to forcefully occupy Dokdo. Now they still shout "the bamboo island without bamboo is a Japanese territory". What a farce!

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%B9%E5%B3%B6

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is very comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima. Has any Japanese here thought about this discrepancy?

There are no elephants on Chang (Elephant) Island in Thailand.

You act as if this is something strange. I've never heard any law or rule that says an island must have the thing after which it is named.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Strangerland

You may be right if you consider just one island. But all of the 7 islands called Takeshima (bamboo) have bamboo, and only the disputed so called bamboo island does not. It is a consistency problem. People including kindergartners know that they are lying on the exceptional one. Moreover, Japanese government never mentions the real bamboo island (Jukdo in Korean) when they explain their territorial claim. They intentionally omit it. For example:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html

https://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/takeshima/page1we_000057.html

Blatant.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

You may be right if you consider just one island. But all of the 7 islands called Takeshima (bamboo) have bamboo, and only the disputed so called bamboo island does not. It is a consistency problem.

Sure it is - you just proved it. Seven of them have bamboo, and one doesn't. So it's inconsistent. And completely normal.

Again, you're trying to pretend that something entirely normal somehow proves some gotcha you've found. It doesn't.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@ SJ

You may be right if you consider just one island. But all of the 7 islands called Takeshima (bamboo) have bamboo, and only the disputed so called bamboo island does not. It is a consistency problem.

Exactly what happens when one tries to force a fake narrative.

If Dokdo did have bamboos, then the Japanese would be shouting out, 'See, it's consistent with all of our other bamboo islands. It's therefore ours'.

So many cases of inconsistency to support their narratives. Another one is where a Japanese company apologized to the US/British PoWs for their inhumane treatment, but the same company wouldn't apologize to the Koreans because they were Japanese at that time (but most likely because the supposedly superior Japanese race should never bow down to the Koreans because it would mean loss of face). Now take the case of the Kanto earthquake where thousands of Koreans were slaughtered for 'causing' the earthquake (which itself is another case of people blindly following government sponsored narratives). Same Korean race, different nationalities according to narrative.

The Japanese will slyly push all boundaries to get what they want and if you object to their fake narratives, they will constantly attack and belittle you until you submit to them, while all trying to show how respectable they are to the outside world. Unfortunately, people have started to realize this. They live in a fake world inside a real world.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@ oldman_13

It is the Sea of Japan both by geography and culture.

Which culture?

Of course it's the Japanese culture, the only culture you know, the only culture that exists in this world. Right?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@yaponezyToday  05:21 pm JST

One uses what they can, I guess, but I am seriously questioning the mentality of Koreans who actually think this is supposed to be some kind of strong point. Stronger than actually following the new standard procedure. But then, had law ever been Koreans' strong suit?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@ Cogito Ergo Sum

We had the 1st, the 2nd and we looked back and said never again. We are real close to the 3rd / 4th big one... depending. I ask again, is peace such a lofty subject for humanity ?

Unfortunately, according to history (based on non-distorted text books of course), this may be inevitable. You have too many superpowers in north east Asian region trying to dominate it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

One uses what they can, I guess, but I am seriously questioning the mentality of Koreans who actually think this is supposed to be some kind of strong point. Stronger than actually following the new standard procedure. But then, had law ever been Koreans' strong suit?

The new standard procedure according to who and for what reason?

Dokdo has always been Korean (except when it was colonized). Japan agreed to return non-Japanese territories to their rightful owners after WWII in an AGREEMENT with the US (in which Korea had no say).

But after the agreement, Japan, as they try to test all boundaries, has to stake a claim on the islands based on some ambiguous statements that were made between the US and Japan.

It is rather ironic that you accuse Koreans of not versed in law when the Japanese today have no sense of morality about their actions of the past.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

yaponezy Today  06:23 pm JST

The new standard procedure according to who and for what reason?

The Europeans, and let's face it, they were the top dog at the time, and we are still using their basic systems today.

Besides, the new, standard procedure is pretty easy and fair. Find land you want. Do some due diligence to make sure no one else claims it. Claim it under terra nullus. If no one else competes for your claim, its yours.

Seems fair to me. The only problem is that Korea and China were in a state of unawareness concerning the islands they would later claim. The Japanese were in a state of awareness concerning the islands they claimed. But you can't stake a claim on something you weren't in a state of awareness of, can you?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

pacificwestToday  08:25 am JST

@OssanAmerica

Why does Western media perpetually caters to this nonsense. Let Korea call it whatever they like. 

Because they are afraid of their email servers and social media being hammered by pro-South Korean internet activists both in SK and in the US.

For many it was a full-time job.

Looks to me like it still is.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

The new standard procedure according to who and for what reason?

In other words, follow the new standard procedure because you think the Koreans should and because it was terra nullus.

The only problem is that Korea and China were in a state of unawareness concerning the islands they would later claim. The Japanese were in a state of awareness concerning the islands they claimed. But you can't stake a claim on something you weren't in a state of awareness of, can you?

It amazes me how much your take on history is so distorted, to the extent that your argument is, in my opinion, not even in unison with your government's stance.

Do you actually know when Korea was aware of Dokdo and neighboring island Ulleungdo?

I can tell you that Japan was also aware of Dokdo before Japan actually stole it (not claimed). But unfortunately for Japan, these old Japanese documents only emphasize and prove that Dokdo is not part of Japan.

There is no dispute whatsoever.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@SJ Today  02:48 pm JST

@Strangerland

You may be right if you consider just one island. But all of the 7 islands called Takeshima (bamboo) have bamboo, and only the disputed so called bamboo island does not. It is a consistency problem. People including kindergartners know that they are lying on the exceptional one. Moreover, Japanese government never mentions the real bamboo island (Jukdo in Korean) when they explain their territorial claim. They intentionally omit it. For example:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html

https://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/takeshima/page1we_000057.html

Blatant.

 

 

Your links to MOFA perfectly explain why Takeshima in question does not have any bamboos. What's your problem? What are your grounds for calling it lie? Japanese fishermen in Edo era often visited Ulleung-do for bamboo/other wood and seafood. They used to call Ulleung-do “Takeshima”, where you have bunch of Bamboo. What’s wrong with this fact?

 

Despite the fact that Korean also claims they used to call “Dokdo” by different name “Ulsan-do”, how can you deny Japanese used to call “Takeshima in question” by different name “Matsushima”?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@yaponezy July 26 10:29 pm JST

Do you actually know when Korea was aware of Dokdo and neighboring island Ulleungdo?

I was very careful when I chose the words "state of awareness" rather than "aware". I am cognizant that Korea claims it is aware of the islands, and if I take their offerings at face value and don't ask questions as to whether they are depicting the right island or anything like that, they are briefly aware of the island once every XX or XXX years.

However, that kind of aware leaves plenty of room for them to not be at a "state of awareness" as the Japanese file their claim. Based on their motions, they were not cognizant that there was even an island there when the Japanese filed the claim.

And I really like how Koreans sink to using colors on a Japanese map to "prove" their claim. It just shows how uncognizant they themselves really are on those little islands.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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