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Concerned citizens criticize Japanese gov't over worsening ties with S Korea

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Finally an article that depicts the opinions of normal people rather than the tit-for-tat power grabbing politicians!

3 ( +20 / -17 )

So what was that I read about Japanese being brainwashed? Lead around like sheep you said? Nah it can't be, and all this is just fake news...LoL...

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Alas, some voice of reasoning.

-5 ( +13 / -18 )

@Shin Ra

These are not exactly "citizens", they are all academics, and most of them are actually fringe activists, in particular the lawyers and the university professors. I follow some of them on my twitter. They are very anti-Abe, and have been protesting for few years now. They do have supporters, and they organize protests in Tokyo often, in particular pro-LGBT and anti-Abe demonstrations. I wouldn't call them "common" or "average" people by any mean. Average Japanese are hardly interested in any of that.

17 ( +26 / -9 )

And the Japanese leftwingers start coming out of the woodworks.

"criticized the Japanese government Friday for being "hostile and counterproductive" and treating South Korea almost like an enemy."

Has this huge crowd of 75 people been following the news over the last couple of years? Did they not notice that South Korea has been "hostile and counterproductive" and treating Japan almost like an enemy?

"This clearly hostile action can be a lethal blow to the South Korean economy,"

Are these 75 people Japanese? Have they never heard the term 自業自得?

The citizens also said Japan's colonial past necessitates "an extremely cautious approach" in dealing with South Korea.

And that's exactly how Japan has treated South Korea since 1965. Look where it got them.

6 ( +19 / -13 )

I wonder if there are any Korean citizens that have criticized the Korean government for being "hostile and counterproductive" and treating Japan "almost like an enemy."

????????????????

6 ( +19 / -13 )

75 citizens of out 125 million? The polls show 60% to 90% back Abe on the issue.

4 ( +17 / -13 )

"This clearly hostile action can be a lethal blow to the South Korean economy," the statement said on the tighter export controls. The group called for the measure's "immediate withdrawal," noting it may be "counterproductive" as it could trigger tit-for-tat action.

But if you listen to the JT crowd, the action was not hostile, but rather a necessary course of action due to security fears. Amazing how many people insist on calling a spade a tea pot.

And that's exactly how Japan has treated South Korea since 1965.

@Ossan - I agree for once. Japan has extremely cautiously denied, downplayed or whitewashed history countless times, including by the current PM Abe. I have a feeling you will deny this though.. just a hunch.

-6 ( +12 / -18 )

a group of 75 citizens...

You can find more people that believe the moon landing is fake and the Earth is flat.

The citizens also said Japan's colonial past necessitates "an extremely cautious approach" in dealing with South Korea.

Ah, there it is. I'm betting that the 'online petition' didn't have a question about nationality...

4 ( +16 / -12 )

Which country serves you after being violated all the international agreements?

Good bye, South Korea.

It's time for you to be a man.

It's time for you to stop using Japan as a political tool so that you can get money at the same time distracted not to see your domestic issues and reality.

But at one point, it is Japan's fault too, they have spoiled Korea too much.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

I wonder if there are any Korean citizens that have criticized the Korean government for being "hostile and counterproductive" and treating Japan "almost like an enemy."

@alwaysspeaking**** - Yes they have. Not just ordinary citizens, but that is the position of one of the major politicial parties in SK. They are called 'Liberal Korea Party', and they won the last 2 presidential elections (Lee Myung Bak and Park Geun Hye) before this one so they aren't a minnow party either.

They have a largely pro-Japan stance, although a major Korean political party seeking closer ties and co-operation with Japan does not fit the rhetoric and narrative of 'anti-Japan SK' and you will not see a story on it on JT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Korea_Party

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190723000669

That's why if you only read Japanese sources (including sites in English), your views will be distorted and one-sided.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

distracted not to see your domestic issues and reality

@Avenger - This gets trotted out time and time again, but what a tired cliche. SK is not like Japan, China or NK where citizens can be manipulated through media control and lack of press freedom, with reduced rights to protest or take part in democratic action.

You are forgetting what kicked off the latest round of dispute is a court case, nothing whatsoever to do with a politician or a political party. Amazing how everyone here knows this but chooses to sweep it under the rug. Never let the truth get in the way of an angry mob waiting for any excuse hey...

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

citizens can be manipulated through media control and lack of press freedom,

Sorry to interrupt, but citizens can be manipulated through media control with abundant press freedoms.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

What kind of discussion can solve this problem? Japanese government repeatedly said it was the matter of the national security. And SK doesn't recognize its incorrect trade management. Some important materials to make brutal weapons are carried to the rogue nations through SK.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

HeckleberryToday  08:23 am JST

distracted not to see your domestic issues and reality

@Avenger - This gets trotted out time and time again, but what a tired cliche. SK is not like Japan, China or NK where citizens can be manipulated through media control and lack of press freedom, with reduced rights to protest or take part in democratic action.

You are forgetting what kicked off the latest round of dispute is a court case, nothing whatsoever to do with a politician or a political party. Amazing how everyone here knows this but chooses to sweep it under the rug. Never let the truth get in the way of an angry mob waiting for any excuse hey...

"Timing" is the only reasoning of SK's hysteric fuss despite they fully know they kept ignored Japan's official requests for cooperative explanation on their export administrations for more than 3 years.

Look. even US has just brought up a complaint about WTO's preferential treatment for China and South Korea, so-called self-appointed "developing countries"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-presses-wto-to-change-china-s-developing-country-status-11564166423

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Kamata Satoshi the investigative journalist and activist? He's done good work. A bit like a Japanese George Orwell. But it sounds like small group of "usual suspects".

@alwaysspeakingwisdom

I wonder if there are any Korean citizens that have criticized the Korean government for being "hostile and counterproductive" and treating Japan "almost like an enemy."

Funnily enough, yes. And many of them are academics too.

You'll find the majority of Koreans just want to go shopping and onsening in Japan and you'll find academics who support the kind of historical objectivity about all the major issues that would have them labelled right wing revisionists if they were Japanese.

For example, Dr. Lee Woo-youn, 52, a research fellow at Korea’s Naksungdae Institute of Economic Research who wrote, There was “no racial discrimination concerning wages” against conscripted workers from the Korean peninsula during the wartime.

He is the spokesperson of a group called the “Group Against Anti-Japanese Doctrine".

One of things he did recently was debunking the use of false photographs in Korean textbooks where they used photos of Japanese workers in the 1960s claiming they were poor, suffering Koreans during the wartime.

Or you have Lee Young-hoon, professor emeritus of economics at Seoul National University who clearly stated, on the basis of actual research, that

The comfort woman system was a licensed prostitution system under the control of the military…. The comfort women were not sex slaves…. Korean comfort women were recruited by pimps by means of advance payments and outright fraud…. There is no evidence that there were 200,000 Korean comfort women. The number is somewhere around 5,000.”

*"**The comfort women issue, is not limited to the Japanese military. It has been a part of South Korea’s own reality, too—it is a history that very much has a present dimension."*

He raises a very interesting historical issue, that the largest proportion of reports of women being abducted - by other Koreans - happened in the Gyeongsangbuk Province which, through his historical research, he discovered was caused because there were many yangban in that area; that the repeated sexually-driven abductions of young women was an extension of the heavy human trafficking that took place during the Chosun Dynasty and the treatment of maidservants as concubines by the yangban.

In his writing, he quotes a quotes from a 1934 publication entitled, “The Daughters Who Are Sold Off,” which stated that there were many parents in Korea who sold their daughters, before the comfort woman system even existed, and the 1916 Regulations for Licensed Prostitution in which the legal grounds for parents’ selling of their daughters is established, and where if the parents receive an advance payment and the daughter refuses to accompany the buyer, then the brothel owner was permitted to forcibly abducted her to fulfil the contract.

There were 200,000 licensed prostitutes in Korea working under this system.

“It is not factual to say that women were set upon on the roadsides and thrown into trucks. It is not factual to say that women were abducted or that there were hunts for sex slaves.”

There's two very highly respect academics and one association for sincere parties to research their work, I could offer more, especially from Korean feminist academics on the Christian side.

One female South Korean scholar, tracked down the family members of former comfort women whose names and addresses were taken from a ledger of Koreans then residing in Indonesia.

Almost all of those family members also testified that these comfort women had been subjected to “employment fraud” by other Koreans, not forced abductions by the Japanes military.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

People will get used to it, so will the world. Because this is NOT a sanction, korea will just have same treatment as China is having. Is Japan sanctioning China? I don't think so

3 ( +7 / -4 )

South Korean Political Parties Back Moon in Japan Trade Row

Do you expect the major political opposition to back Japan over Korea, in a Japan-Korea dispute? I mean really? Where are Japanese political opposition backing Korea over the dispute?

A group of concerned Japanese citizens and academics called for a cautious approach rather than treating SK as an enemy. You questioned and implied that the same would never happen in SK, which is when I alerted you to the fact that there is a major political party in SK who have also been calling for a cautious approach to Japan rather than treating Japan as an enemy.

The opposition leader in SK criticized Moon and called for caution, likening Moon's approach to the archaic Joseon dynasty's isolationist policy that saw the country become a 'hermit kingdom' closed to the outside world.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190723000669

Liberty Korea Party Chairman Hwang Kyo-ahn had criticized the Moon Jae-in government’s response to Japan’s export regulations as “no different from the isolationist policy of the late Joseon that led the country to collapse.”

I never claimed that the major opposition party in SK was pro-Japan and anti-Korea, which seems to me is how you took it.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

They are the people (pacifist) who say surrender if Japan is invaded without fighting against the invaders. No Japanese listen to them today.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@vanityofvanities

They are the people (pacifist) who say surrender if Japan is invaded without fighting against the invaders.

Are they part of the National Open City Declaration Movement Network?

It's called an "open city declaration".

According to the Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions, it is forbidden for the attacking party to "attack, by any means whatsoever, non-defended localities" and it worked really well for, say, Paris in the face the Nazis and Manilla, in the face of Showa Japan.

Far better indeed that, say, Tokyo in the face of the American assualt of Japan. Or any other Japanese city at that time.

Makes good sense, if your opponent accepts the Geneva Conventions. The US is just about the only potential aggressor unlike to recognize it, given that Japan is unlikely to face the Taliban/ISIS.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

WTF? Two exporter economies creating disruption in the market. Good grief... I suspect importers will simple look elsewhere. Vietnam is the winner of this.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

WTF? Two exporter economies creating disruption in the market. Good grief... I suspect importers will simple look elsewhere. Vietnam is the winner of this.

The world has never been hungrier for Japan Quality goods. Cars, TVs, electronics , machines, even farm produce is at record export levels. Not cheap Vietnam knock offs.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Well, at least some folks think and don't blame just one country!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"This clearly hostile action can be a lethal blow to the South Korean economy," the statement said on the tighter export controls. The group called for the measure's "immediate withdrawal," noting it may be "counterproductive" as it could trigger tit-for-tat action.

If we accept the premise this can be a "lethal blow" to South Korea, why stop?

The citizens also said Japan's colonial past necessitates "an extremely cautious approach" in dealing with South Korea.

Ostensible facts in the past is not a licence to violate present law. It is time the Koreans learnt that.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The online petition, which calls for a cool-headed approach to ease tension and hold dialogues, enlisted support from scholars, lawyers and other citizens including writer Satoshi Kamata, economic analyst Katsuto Uchihashi, and Akira Kawasaki, a steering committee member of the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons.

A Look at this paragraph tells one that some of these people are academics and maybe practicing social critics, who on a large part tend not to see themselves confined to geographical boundaries but as a larger part of the cosmos. They address the lag between humanity's ideals and practices.

Good social critics stand outside the systems and turn to look in and give a perspective to bring to bear the most sustained form of unbiased social analysis possible.

They will also mostly practice critical patriotism in that they love their countries enough to tell the truth and not to uncritically valorize, iconosize and celebrate their countries when its behavior is not in tandem with the larger humanity ideals.

So,please, let's not disparage any dissenting voices because it's momentarily convenient to do so either for upvotes or to belong.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Finally, the voice of reason coming out of Japan.

If Abe's ipso facto sanctions do deliver a "lethal blow" to the South Korean economy it effects will most certainly affect the Japanese economy and likely the Asian economy, and very likely the world economy.

It not be that bad, but remember South Korea is the leading maker of components that go into computers, smart phone, etc. Japan is now the major provider of materials that go into those components. Anything hampering computer production will cause major global problem.

The shortsighted Abe government is likely shooting itself in the foot.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

When conservative Koreans criticize Moon, who gained support and views from Japanese right-wingers, then it's okay.

But when there are Japanese who criticizes Abe, then the conspiracies are let loose.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

75 out of a population of how many?

Recent survey was done and close to 90% supported Abe actions. I guess the vast majority doesnt count. Only the 75 that agree with S. Korea.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@ pacificwest

Or you have Lee Young-hoon, professor emeritus of economics at Seoul National University who clearly stated, on the basis of actual research, that

The comfort woman system was a licensed prostitution system under the control of the military…. The comfort women were not sex slaves…. Korean comfort women were recruited by pimps by means of advance payments and outright fraud…. There is no evidence that there were 200,000 Korean comfort women. The number is somewhere around 5,000.”

Funny how you conveniently only tell half the story. What about telling the full story next time, hey? Obviously you can't because it would be against the Japanese narrative.

Lee Young-hoon never stated the above. He, an economist and not a historian, went on a TV show and talked about what he found in the available documents in Japan regarding comfort women (which itself is limited due to censorship or destruction by the Japanese government). A journalist at the show misunderstood his comments and wrote the above statement which spread like wildfire and caused mass outrage from the public.

Lee Young-hoon then provided a public explanation saying he never ever said the above statement, that it was mis-represented by the journalist, and that he received an apology from the journalist. Furthermore, he reiterated that he knows that the comfort women were all forced by the Japanese military, and he visited them directly to apologize for the misunderstanding, even though it wasn't his fault.

Why do you stoop so low just to support a fake narrative? Do you not have any moral conscious? Do you still need to dishonor the victims from what little remaining dignity they have left? Seriously, big shame on you!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@yaponezy Today 02:31 pm JST

Well, Yaponezy, you have a choice of which variant you want. Let me explain to you the consequences.

1) You accept Pacificwest's retelling. That means that there is a Korean that's willing to say the comfort women narrative is a fake. However, it does mean the Koreans are not a monolith, and at least its academics have some degree of independent thought.

2) LYH was indeed quoting, but with intent that he at least partially supported those statements (people tend to quote things they can at least live with) ... at least until the surrounding Koreans nearly murdered him, then he retracted and tried to make it look like he never said that. That will still mean that there is a Korean willing to suggest the comfort women narrative is a fake and that Koreans are not a monolith. But it would mean that freedom of expression and opinion is de facto heavily suppressed in South Korea by hordes of extremists.

3) LYH was quoting without intent to support the statement, and his position was the same the whole time. It does mean there is one less Korean willing to suggest the comfort women narrative is a fake. However, it supports the charge that the Koreans are all a brainwashed, extremist monolith.

Now that the consequences have been explained, which version do you want to support?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Well, at least 75 people here have common sense.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Concerned citizens criticize Japanese gov't over worsening ties with S Korea

Good and if South Korean citizens would start critizing their government for worsening ties with Japan maybe we finally would get closer to a solution.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The world has never been hungrier for Japan Quality goods. Cars, TVs, electronics , machines, even farm produce is at record export levels. Not cheap Vietnam knock offs.

Reads like you've been on this island forever. Japan's tiny little 4 trillion a year economy is not really all that critical to the world. Cars, TV's? LOL, Good grief man...

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

Did you not read the following?

*Lee Young-hoon never stated the above. He, an economist and not a historian, went on a TV show and talked about what he found in the available documents in Japan regarding comfort women (which itself is limited due to censorship or destruction by the Japanese government).*

What conclusion would he gain from that? You tell me.

Perhaps if the Japanese have the courage and consider victim impact statements (or interview the comfort women), and interview the actual soldiers who participated and admitted these crimes, you won't get a one sided story - just like LYH tried to understand where the Japanese were coming from.

Reflect on yourself before you start charging Koreans as brainwashed and extremists.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@yaponezyToday  04:21 pm JST

I'll call it closest to option 3. I just want to make sure that's what you want before we continue.

But that gives me another reason to slam him and Koreans. In other words, the contemporary documentation he had access to told him that there was no such thing (basically). He chose to favor verbal accusations made about 50 years after the fact. In 50 years, you should be able to rehearse enough to make a convincing accusation of anything, regardless of its truth value.

Free evaluation of evidence, I suppose, but does that make him more objective?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Why must common sense always be thrown out the window when japan is concerned? The number of people who spoke out about the obviously unhelpful behaviour of the single party regime are being belittled and some dare say aren't really citizens. It's incredibly mind boggling how that only happens when japan is concerned. Replace it with any other country and everyone will call out the obviousness.

Its pretty simple really. Follow the German model of contrition and there won't be any more of these issues. It's really that simple.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Is more likely this so called petition are from those who had heavily invested in SK and is now suffering because SK is boycotting 'made in japan' goods. Or these so called rational people is just seeking to earn some fame.

The time for holding hands and talking is long over. We have been doing that for over a century and it didn't improve anything. All it did was delaying it and make them more arrogant and demanding. They keep picking fights and at the same time expect us to give them the preferential treatment. Currently SK government is not seeking peace nor want to be allies. They are demanding that their demands are met. Is not that Abe want to cut ties with SK,but instead it is SK that had never cared about the ties between the two countries. They have broken ties several times in the past already and only when it suit them,they would try to mend the ties again. That's no longer a thing we want to see happening again.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is a reason for the ban of dangerous materials, South Korean laws are too loose and they can't account for where all the chemicals end up. All Japan was requesting was to tight up their laws and make sure the chems don't get into the wrong hands. But South Korean turned it into a side show because they can't be truthful towards their people; they must keep a common enemy (Japan) so their people don't overthrow their own government.

Dangerous and stupid game. I wish media wasn't complicit in the the fake news and would explain the truth to people.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"...a group of 75 citizens"....! Is this the public opinion in Japan? 75 people? Most likely of Korean origin or involvement (or anti-Abe). Is this a news, really?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Whatsnext: This is what you presume. If the Abe regime has said anything like this please show us the evidence.

Roger Jolly. Your entire posting is a personal attack. It does not count as a legitimate argument.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@jeancolmar Today  01:45 am JST

Your post in the other thread demanded answer.

> OssanAmerica réponses to my question above as follows: "The only way the above is possible is if one never reads or follows the news". Okay, writer, let's assume I never read, see or hear the news, making me so cut off from reality that NHK does not want my money. On the other hand, you, OssanAmerica should be well informed enough to answer my question, which boils down to one thing. What is Japan's beef with South Korea? So enlighten me.

*So far yaponezy has the best answer: "No one here will be able to explain it because the Japanese shepherd hasn't taught the sheep the answers yet.*"

Anyone want to top that?

In short, South Korea is supposed to cooperate with Japan by timely responding with full explanationwhen requested, on the names of Korean exporters, of final users and final use of the materials(convertible to military usage) when SK exports( or exported) to the other 3rd countries, which SK didn't for 3 years and a few months. That's the Japan's beef with SK. Plain and Simple.

Now what's your beef with Japan's action treating SK just in normal and the same manner as it does for every single other Asian countries?

So what about this?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ganbare Japan!

The world has never been hungrier for Japan Quality goods. Cars, TVs, electronics , machines, even farm produce is at record export levels.

You know that Samsung is the most popular smartphone brand in the world, right?

And, LG and Samsung TV's and appliances outsell Japanese brands in the West.

In many places in the US, you'll see as many Kias and Hyundais on the roads as Toyotas or Hondas.

Many Japanese-branded electronics are made in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc, anyway.

Produce? Japanese-branded rice sold in the US is grown in California.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Only citizens are concerned.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

But that gives me another reason to slam him and Koreans. In other words, the contemporary documentation he had access to told him that there was no such thing (basically). He chose to favor verbal accusations made about 50 years after the fact. In 50 years, you should be able to rehearse enough to make a convincing accusation of anything, regardless of its truth value.

You are trying really hard to hang on to thin air aren't you?

Do you honestly believe that if a third party (non-Japanese/Korean) looked at your statement above, they would sincerely believe you?

You are talking about a document that is developed and kept by a government which is known to the outside world to distort and whitewash history. What makes you think it's not possible to change documents in one day?

It's possible that one victim can churn out rubbish, but to have hundreds of people giving consistent statements, not only in Korea, but pan-Asia, now do you think those statements are all rubbish?

Furthermore, there are WWII soldiers that had been interviewed in Japan previously that all provided consistent accounts with the victims. It is funny how the Japanese government ignores these stories.

You talk about Japan's superior legal system over Korea's, although it's ironic because the Japanese have no sense of morality about their actions from the past, but to even suggest victims' statements are not as valuable shows the fallacy of your supposed superior legal system.

The victims, survivors and soldiers are the living and breathing evidence, not some document that is known to have been forged.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@yaponezyToday  11:13 pm JST

You are talking about a document that is developed and kept by a government which is known to the outside world to distort and whitewash history. What makes you think it's not possible to change documents in one day?

To say that, you will already have to have preconceptions about what the truth is, which you probably got from a bunch of women who claimed 50 years after the event.

You talk about Japan's superior legal system over Korea's, although it's ironic because the Japanese have no sense of morality about their actions from the past, but to even suggest victims' statements are not as valuable shows the fallacy of your supposed superior legal system.

I just coldly point out that contemporary evidence is much stronger as primary evidence than a eruption of 50 year old testimony. I will also point out that there is a clear monetary motive to those testimonies, while it is just bureaucratic work for the Japanese writing those documents (less motive).

However, that's not even what I consider when I talk about Japan's superior legal system (or rather, the atrociousness of the South Korean one). In those, I give nearly conclusive deference to them on the facts (but not on the law), respecting the South Korean court's right of free evaluation of evidence. They are still wrong, and we can of course work down from there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Japan's superior legal system

Lolololololololololoololololololol

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"This clearly hostile action can be a lethal blow to the South Korean economy,"

I disagree. I love American products and these days, that is all I will invest in, however, I love Samsung phones and their products. I personally find that japanese products (among other things) are not what they used to be, and that they missed their train on something or got lost a while back when they had their opportunity. There was a time when some people I know took refuge there, hoping to find a fresh start, but after living there, was not treated fairly. From their products to even their anime and games, something has been lost and is still leaving.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

To say that, you will already have to have preconceptions about what the truth is, which you probably got from a bunch of women who claimed 50 years after the event.

A bunch of women provided damning statements of being 'forced' into it by the military, backed by statements from soldiers as well, is more of primary evidence than a document that completely brushes it off. It just proves the documents do not provide the complete story.

I will also point out that there is a clear monetary motive to those testimonies, while it is just bureaucratic work for the Japanese writing those documents (less motive).

I'm not sure if you are naive or just playing dumb here, but the monetary motive to forge the documents is so much greater than the monetary motive for individuals. Think from the point of view of government payouts, not individual awards.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@yaponezy  July 27  02:31 pm JST

@ pacificwest

Or you have Lee Young-hoon, professor emeritus of economics at Seoul National University who clearly stated, on the basis of actual research, that

The comfort woman system was a licensed prostitution system under the control of the military…. The comfort women were not sex slaves…. Korean comfort women were recruited by pimps by means of advance payments and outright fraud…. There is no evidence that there were 200,000 Korean comfort women. The number is somewhere around 5,000.”

Funny how you conveniently only tell half the story. What about telling the full story next time, hey? Obviously you can't because it would be against the Japanese narrative.

Lee Young-hoon never stated the above. He, an economist and not a historian, went on a TV show and talked about what he found in the available documents in Japan regarding comfort women (which itself is limited due to censorship or destruction by the Japanese government). A journalist at the show misunderstood his comments and wrote the above statement which spread like wildfire and caused mass outrage from the public.

Lee Young-hoon then provided a public explanation saying he never ever said the above statement, that it was mis-represented by the journalist, and that he received an apology from the journalist. Furthermore, he reiterated that he knows that the comfort women were all forced by the Japanese military, and he visited them directly to apologize for the misunderstanding, even though it wasn't his fault.

Why do you stoop so low just to support a fake narrative? Do you not have any moral conscious? Do you still need to dishonor the victims from what little remaining dignity they have left? Seriously, big shame on you!

 

I don’t bother with another half of the story you provided to pacificwest because Prof Lee Young-hoon (an Economist and a historian of Economic History)  is still making the same statement as what pacificwest mentioned even now. In 2016 and this year 2019.

 

The comfort woman system was a licensed prostitution system under the control of the military…. The comfort women were not sex slaves…. Korean comfort women were recruited by pimps by means of advance payments and outright fraud…. There is no evidence that there were 200,000 Korean comfort women. The number is somewhere around 5,000.”

 

Note His estimate of Korean comfortwomen is 3500. He said, at most, 5000.

 

 Not to mention that He is severely criticizing Chong Dae Hyup, he is also implying testimonies made by some old women are unreliable, if not directly call them lying.

He is also focusing on Korean comfort station system carried over since WW2 up to 1990’s.

 

The following link is just a few of the series titled “Anti-Japan Tribalism” sub titled “ Lying People, Lying Politics, Lying Justice” uploaded this year.

 

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt_1srirqsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVzs4yNBtw

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@yaponezy Today  12:33 am JST

@ Kazuaki Shimazaki

To say that, you will already have to have preconceptions about what the truth is, which you probably got from a bunch of women who claimed 50 years after the event.

A bunch of women provided damning statements of being 'forced' into it by the military, backed by statements from soldiers as well, is more of primary evidence than a document that completely brushes it off. It just proves the documents do not provide the complete story.

Define "forced" into it by the military. Do you mean IJA's forcible abduction on the street in broad daylight ? Clarify how many KOREAN women still saying so.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@yaponezy

The number of Korean women officially registered as the victim was initially 238.

Of which 222 testified they were sold by their parents or deceived by Korean brokers.

Those remaining 16 testified they were forcibly abducted by Japanese soldiers but they actually

didn't say so initially, later they all flipped their testimonies orchestrated by NGO like Chong Dae Hyup

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@yaponezy

A bunch of women provided damning statements of being 'forced' into it by the military, backed by statements from soldiers as well

The "statement from soliders" that the Korean anti-Japanese activists use is generally Seiji Yoshida's fiction.

Yoshida admitted himself was it was false before he died. The was a radical, actually unstable communist sympathizer (he was chucked out of a local communist party) and it was his way of attacking the Japanese's establishment.

There's a funny backstory to this.

Yoshida claimed the events took place on Jeju Island. Journalist, both Korean and Japanese, went to interview elderly residents who were alive at the time and not only did they deny the events took place, they were angry at them and saw them as an insult to their integrity, as in it suggest they stood by and allowed it to happen.

Yoshida admitted his account was a fabrication and yet it remains the foundation of attacks for anti-Japanese racists.

"There is no profit in writing the truth in books. Hiding the facts and mixing your own assertions into the story is something that newspapers do, too,"

@showchinmono

Not to mention that He is severely criticizing Chong Dae Hyup, he is also implying testimonies made by some old women are unreliable, if not directly call them lying.

Again, what we read on the internet is heavily slanted by anti-Japanese racists of many hues who have no interest in the bigger picture or the true.

There is no "implication" that many testimonies are unreliable. Time and time again there is proof that they have been falsified numerous times. Basically all of them go back to similar scenarios, they were sold by their parents to other Koreans (as was the tradition of the time).

However, it goes further than that.

Firstly, even the Korean NGO attempting to exploit their stories have had to filter out a majority of claims because they have been proven so unreliable. Even the "great Kim Hak-sun" who started the ball rolling.

Secondly, serious war crimes and Korean feminist groups, campaigning on related issues such as the later Korean government run Comfort Women schemes in the 50, 60s, 70s and sex trafficking today (the exact same events continue to go on) have now separated themselves from the notorious comfort women groups due to their unreliability and motivations.

Thirdly, no one is being given direct access to the old women to do proper, independent research. They are housed together, interviews are well scripted, they are not meet researchers alone, they are threatened with eviction from the homes and those who have spoken out have been outcast from or attacked by the group.

Lastly, there was a big fraud case recently where even the Korean government and police took action because they were taking money from entirely unaffected parties on the ground that they could get compensation from Japan.

Including the Korean mother of the Korean wife of the Japanese journalist that started the whole thing rolling in the 1990s, Takashi Uemura.

Uemura, former journalist at the Left wing Asahi Shimbun, attempted to sue a woman journalist for defamation accusing her of wrongly labeling articles Uemura wrote as “fabrications", and lost. The court found the other journalist not guilty of the charges.

The Asahi Shimbun instructed journalists to re-investigate the stories and admit they were fabrications and made a formal apology.

No one on Jeju Island could be found to could corroborate Yoshida’s account.

Last year a copy cat "comfort woman" statue was ripped out of the ground in Manilla, Philippines when it was found Chinese anti-Japan activists, include one that had been Chinese guerrilla who fought against the Japanese, recruited a Philippines human rights organization (as in bribed) to work secretly to have it erected without the knowledge of the government.

Such Chinese and Korean networks are working globally in similar campaigns.

I hope this give some a tiny insight into what is going on behind these apparently "moral" campaigns and the kind of characters involved.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There was another series of defamation cases, in Korea this time.

Park Yu-ha, a woman professor at Sejong University in Seoul, wrote a book about Japan’s World War II-era military brothels that debunked the usual claims that the women were "forced" to work at the brothels during the war.

She was, again, acquitted.

She had published “Comfort Women of the Empire” in 2013 and was forced to face both civil and criminal complaints from nine South Korean women represented by this NGOs.

Their lawyers had demanded the court to sentence Ms. Park to three years in prison.

Ms. Park said she had been fighting not against the women but against their advocates — including local academics and journalists — who she said would not tolerate any opinions different from the mainstream narrative about the women and called for a more comprehensive view of the women in the brothels.

She wrote that there was no evidence that the Japanese government was officially involved in, and therefore legally responsible for, forcibly recruiting the women from Korea, then a colony of Japan. She said Korean collaborators were mainly responsible for placing Korean women.

And that's the truth that keeps coming back time and time again.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

朝鮮人に真の関心を示した日本国民に感謝します!

Thank you to those Japanese citizens who showed genuine concern for the Koreans!

한국인에 대한 진정한 관심을 보여준 일본 시민들에게 감사드립니다!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Doesn't mean much of anything.

There are also South Korean citizens who disagree with their government's stubborn and hard nosed policy towards Japan.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The present Government of South Korea deceitfully by duplicitous means used domestic judiciary to circumvent a signed Treaty to restore basic diplomatic relations with Japan, breaking international law.

I suggest the group of 75 concerned citizens worried about the situation, relay there angst in the direction of the architect of all the "hostile and counterproductive" measures, President of South Korea Moon Jae-in, astonishing, what front, the utter cheek of it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Actually the Korean government should have been criticized for its pitiful negotiation skill on the 1965 treaty.

It seems like a lot of people has forgotten what happened on January 17th 2005 when formers forced labors forced Korean government to declassify some documents:

According to this Korean newspapers Chosun Ilbo which is, of course, a pro-Korea one:

http://english.chosun.com/m/svc/article.html?contid=2005011761025

http://english.chosun.com/m/svc/article.html?contid=2005011761043

http://english.chosun.com/m/svc/article.html?contid=2005011761038

"Declassified documents Could Trigger Avalanche of Lawsuits

January 17, 2005 18:25

The Korean government on Monday declassified five volumes of sensitive documents that are expected to unleash a flood of lawsuits from victims of the Japanese colonial period.

The documents detail negotiations leading up to the normalization of ties between Korea and Japan in 1965, focusing on Korean demands for reparations. 

An estimated 2 to 3 million victims and family members of victims of the draft, forced relocation to Sakhalin Island and other abuses during the 1910 to 1945 Japanese colonial rule could bring suits for compensation. 

The declassified documents show that in the course of negotiations, the Korean government demanded a total of US$364 million in compensation for the 1.03 million people conscripted into the workforce and the military during the colonial period.

They also reveal that Korean negotiators made a number of statements that could be construed as surrendering the rights of individual Koreans to sue the Japanese government.

The Association for the Pacific War Victims told a press conference Monday it would sue the Korean government for W300,000 compensation for war victims and seek renegotiation of the Korea-Japan Basic Treaty that was the result of the normalization talks. 

The association said the Korean government claimed at the time 77,603 deaths resulted from conscription into the Japanese military. It plans to gather a group of plaintiffs from among the 69,051 victims it says were not compensated due to the government’s failure to properly publicize their rights.

It is also preparing to sue the Japanese government, claiming that some 230,000 Korean conscripts into the military and workforce were never compensated and must be given their wages, which are lying in a Y215 million account with the Bank of Japan. 

The government will establish a team to deal with the expected aftermath of the documents' release including appeals for compensation. 

"It has been the government’s position that compensation for losses during the Japanese occupation has already been settled, but we will make a final decision after considering the flow of petitions and public sentiment," an official at the Prime Minister’s Office said."

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This is absolutely ridiculous.

The Japanese media like TV Asahi and Mainichi Shinbun is always criticising the Japanese government. They never show the good things Prime Minister Abe does. For example, they rarely mention all the overseas agreements he makes and all the hard work he’s put in for Japan. In fact, this issue is something the Japanese government should act strongly against. For the past many years after WW2, Japan has been taken advantage of by South Korea, paying reparations by the billions in US dollars every year, till about a year or 2 ago. Whenever South Korea wanted Japan to do something, they would bring up the issue of WW2, and the comfort women. Japan should take up a strong stance against South Korea.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

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