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Extension of S Korea-Japan intel pact likely to irritate N Korea

30 Comments
By Tomoyuki Tachikawa

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Really? An "economic colony and vassal?" Whatever it is, it is working for South Korea, which has a bountiful economy and is a world leader in key industries - examples: automotive and electronics. Whereas the state-controlled economy of the North pours all of its resources into weaponry while the common people starve.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Go ahead irritate NK so they don't have to pretend you did.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Agree on peace, not war.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cut the crap as SK is the one who is don't respect the international rules first the 1965 then 2105 then 2019 WTO rulings n still ignorantly whining fowl is a farce learn from ur defeat as its just the beginning if u continue Gmania would be US Japan n NK not SK

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The article below authored by Taro Kano Minister of Defense of Japan and pretty much sums up this whole debacle. South Korea is a great country and one of the few developed countries that has never invaded another country. But it has to learn to stand by its word. A deal is a deal.

Relying on an article by Kono? Real smart.

Perhaps you should refer to reports by third parties such as U.N. Commission for Human Rights that stated that the 1965 treaty did not cover claims against comfort women nor forced laborers. In other words, they rejected Japan’s assertion and sided with Korea.

Furthermore, this has also been the view of previous Japanese governments, as well as the group of 100 lawyers that sided with South Korea’s Supreme Court ruling.

Abe is lying through his teeth, and you my friend, fell into the Japanese trap.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Here is the actual condition of GSOMIA termination suspension, apparently until December 31st.

After that, Moon can terminate GSOMIA at will if he doesn't find Abe's solution satisfactory.

 'Groundwork laid for negotiation on Tokyo's trade curbs'.

“I believe the groundwork is laid for Japan to withdraw its export curbs, which is what we wanted, and we will work to achieve that goal,” Kang said at Incheon Airport before her departure.

Too much sour grapes. If such agreement had been made, All media would have jumped on it by now.

None of media in both countries(including YTN) referred to 12/31 deadline except FNN which seems obviously

jumped on the gun (as seen there's no follow-through on it)

However, think about Japan's position. It has been always that export admin issue is separated issue, not to mention Gsomia, from wartime labor verdict issue. If and when Japan judges that SK finally restores Japan's trust in its export administration with cooperative and responsive attitude, why not re-upgrade it back to A group regardless of what's going on those different issues.

Moon has just got too excited on his own and raised hurdles on his own and burst on his own

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Strangerland:

Good post.

This was settled back in 1965.

The article below authored by Taro Kano Minister of Defense of Japan and pretty much sums up this whole debacle. South Korea is a great country and one of the few developed countries that has never invaded another country. But it has to learn to stand by its word. A deal is a deal.

"In 1965, after 14 years of hard negotiations, Japan and South Korea concluded the “Agreement on the Settlement of Problems concerning Property and Claims and on Economic Co-operation between Japan and the Republic of Korea.” Under the terms of the 1965 Agreement, Japan extended $500 million in grants and loans -- a sum that totaled 1.6 times as much as South Korea’s national budget then. All problems concerning claims between the two countries and their nationals were confirmed to be “settled completely and finally.”

Among the eight items in the “Outline of the Claims of the Republic of Korea against Japan” that were raised during negotiations, “accrued wages of the requisitioned Korean[s]” as well as “compensation of damages by war to the requisitioned Korean[s]” were included. The Agreed Minutes to the 1965 Agreement clearly state that the claims that were “settled completely and finally” included any that fell within the scope of these eight items.  

Furthermore, when seeking compensation for Korean workers “requisitioned” by Japanese companies during the war, Korean officials explained that their claim included damages for psychological and physical suffering. In response, the Japanese side proposed that its payments be made to individuals. But the Korean representatives asserted that they were putting forward the claims for compensation as a state and that their government would be responsible for distributing any money received from Japan.

Four decades later, in August 2005, South Korea reaffirmed that the $300 million in grants received from Japan had included compensation for the “historical fact of suffering” of the victims of “forced mobilization.” In so doing, the Korean government made it clear that it bore the moral responsibility to allocate an adequate amount of the resources received to provide relief to those victims."

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Hah, even after Noon did the sensible thing you still have his people threatening to take their bail and go home.

Yeah that bluff failed. Because it was a complete loser strategy.

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Here is the actual condition of GSOMIA termination suspension, apparently until December 31st.

After that, Moon can terminate GSOMIA at will if he doesn't find Abe's solution satisfactory.

https://www.fnn.jp/posts/00427724CX/201911221805_CX_CX

まず、韓国のニュース専門チャンネル「YTN」は、日本政府が、韓国向け輸出管理見直しを12月31日まで、2019年中に撤回するという条件をのんだと報じている。

また聯合ニュースは、韓国は、こういった日本の輸出管理見直しについて、WTO(世界貿易機関)に提訴しているが、この提訴を取り下げることを決めたという。

この2つの報道が事実であれば、いったん輸出管理をめぐる争いをやめて、両者が話し合いを進めるということで合意したと。

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Oops, = "an exercise in trade leverage"...

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Headline in the Korea Herald states: 'Groundwork laid for negotiation on Tokyo's trade curbs'.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20191122000599

So, it was just an exercise in leverage?

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The “Our Republican Party” logo at the bottom of the placards tells me otherwise. So too does the caption stating they’re Koreans in Seoul.

The caption is pretty clear about that:

People opposing South Korean President Moon Jae-in stage a rally in support of the General Security of Military Information Agreement, or GSOMIA, an intelligence-sharing agreement between South Korea and Japan, in Seoul on Friday night.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The people holding up signs against GSOMIA were South Koreans, which is why their signs were written in Korean. The people in the photo above are Japanese in Japan, which is why their signs are in Japanese.

The “Our Republican Party” logo at the bottom of the placards tells me otherwise. So too does the caption stating they’re Koreans in Seoul.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Why not allow North Korea take part in the discussion, such that part of Asia, is secure from threats of outside threats, . . . etc.

What do you mean? Who is not allowing them to do this?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why not allow North Korea take part in the discussion, such that part of Asia, is secure from threats of outside threats, . . . etc.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Let's not jump to conclusions as to what the DPRK might or might not think.

In reality it will give them an excuse to do some more semi-open ICBM testing, even as their propaganda apparatus lets off puffs of hot air.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The problem is, Japan already tried to deal with this, and negotiated a good-faith agreement to finalize the problem irreversibly. Coming to the table was an acknowledgement that there were issues left over from WWII that needed rectification. Negotiating an agreement, something they were not required to do through any force other than their own will to do so, shows that they recognized Japan had done wrong in the war, and Korea deserved compensation for that.

Korea, in signing the agreement, accepted Japan's acknowledgement of the issue, as well as the compensation for that.

But then, Korea turned around and decided the agreement was no good, started suing Japanese companies, and the government stoked anti-Japanese hatred. Now, if they were acting in good faith, they would see that Japan had already tried to act in good faith, and since Korea were the ones deciding after the fact it was not good enough, at a bare minimum, it's up to Korea to advance an alternative. Which, after an agreement has been signed, is particularly underhanded. It's something Trump would do.

You keep rambling on about something you have no idea on. I raised this up last time, but obviously some people’s brain capacity is already filled up.

The agreement was for comfort women. The suing of Japanese companies were by forced laborers. In other words, forced laborers claiming had nothing to do with the agreement, but to do with the lack of coverage in the 1965 treaty, a fact that was acknowledged by the U.N.CHR.

With respect to the agreement, the U.N.CED sided with Korea and said the agreement was inadequate. Good faith? Rear end. More like shot gun agreement.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

The people holding up signs against GSOMIA were South Koreans, which is why their signs were written in Korean. The people in the photo above are Japanese in Japan, which is why their signs are in Japanese.

Nice photo of latter day Bunroku.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Japan has less press freedom than SK and more authoritarian control over their citizens who rarely voice their disagreement to their government, one that has essentially become a single party ruled state.

It's true, but let's not pretend Korea is any better - just different. They have an incompetent leadership who instead of dealing with the situation in the best interests of their nation by negotiating with Japan, instead stoked the anti-Japanese sentiments of the people, doing things like stating they would leave GSOMNIA. That's cutting off their nose to spite their face, as it is not in the national best interests of Korea to not do that. They thought this would be a good pressure tactic on Japan, to force them to deal with Japan's past.

The problem is, Japan already tried to deal with this, and negotiated a good-faith agreement to finalize the problem irreversibly. Coming to the table was an acknowledgement that there were issues left over from WWII that needed rectification. Negotiating an agreement, something they were not required to do through any force other than their own will to do so, shows that they recognized Japan had done wrong in the war, and Korea deserved compensation for that.

Korea, in signing the agreement, accepted Japan's acknowledgement of the issue, as well as the compensation for that.

But then, Korea turned around and decided the agreement was no good, started suing Japanese companies, and the government stoked anti-Japanese hatred. Now, if they were acting in good faith, they would see that Japan had already tried to act in good faith, and since Korea were the ones deciding after the fact it was not good enough, at a bare minimum, it's up to Korea to advance an alternative. Which, after an agreement has been signed, is particularly underhanded. It's something Trump would do.

But they didn't even do that, they just decided the agreement was no good, then got angry at Japan for not meeting their now unspecified demands. And when Japan didn't meet these unspecified demands, they threatened this whole GSOMNIA issue.

The only good move Korea has made, in the context of the circumstances at the time the move was made, was to back off from their threat. That move was in the best interests of their nation. But none of the other things they have done have been in the best interests of Korea.

They really need to work this out. They need to put in a competent government that understands their place and position on the world stage, who will calm the fires of anit-Japanese hatred, and work to find a way to resolve this issue so that that they don't have to have their bluff called again in the future.

If they fail to do this, these issues are just going to go in circles indefinitely.

Japan previously came to the table, and in my opinion, being one who understands Japan and the Japanese well, Japan will be willing to go to the table again and try to resolve the issue.

(Addendum: and some Japanese politician will probably say something stupid, causing other issues, but that's for another story, and the post above is complete without this addendum)

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Yubaru, yes the are...seen them myself.

@ "The decision by Moon of South Korea to terminate GSOMIA was to help China, North Korea and Russia will be the real gainer in the Pacific theater by undermining the security of Korea(except Moon and his followers)-Japan-US security."

So true one just has to read the news from yesterday of Russian excursion and brother it didn't take long at all. If or when the US pulls out of Asia meaning SK and Japan well, before the US trucks can be washed, decks on ships cleaned, the Russians or Chinese will be moving their troops in to secure footing. Good luck with that anti US folks.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Yubaru - Maybe the protestors pictured above are a different group from those who opposed the pact?

I guess you have a hard time reading sarcasm.

I'll bet those signs are reversible too!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

"It's easy to imagine that North Korea will launch more advanced missiles in an attempt to extract concessions from Trump, who is eager to secure diplomatic achievements in the run-up to next year's presidential election,"

Trump extends olive branches. He doesn't make concessions unless he gets something in exchange.

Until North Korea takes solid steps to denuke, the sanctions are going to stay on. We've seen this since the first Trump-Kim meeting in June, 2018.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The decision by Moon of South Korea to terminate GSOMIA was to help China, North Korea and Russia will be the real gainer in the Pacific theater by undermining the security of Korea(except Moon and his followers)-Japan-US security.

Moon is the real loser in this incident, and he should step down.  

Japan is right, Moon is wrong end-to-end,

2 ( +10 / -8 )

And just last week the sign-holding protesters were against the pact. How fickle some can be!

@Yubaru - Maybe the protestors pictured above are a different group from those who opposed the pact?

Maybe different individuals have different opinions? Or do you think all South Koreans must have one unified stance on every topic?

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Response to article: "Others, however, voice fears that such a move could make North Korea more reluctant to take part in denuclearization negotiations with the United States and prompt leader Kim Jong Un to step up provocations including ballistic missile tests."

Not to get off the main topic, but per the article NK has not made any concessions at all, but have given the US more options for a 1st strike which puts Russian and China on notice. At the beginning of the POTUS admin, it was clear dialogue which for yrs had been a claim made by NK was still left as an option. Well that finally happened and much like sanctions no results. NK has put itself into a corner even further because there is no more room to squeeze into. That was the last olive branch left. They kept their program and making improvements the whole time. Clock is ticking tick tock.

re: "Japan has less press freedom than SK and more authoritarian control over their citizens who rarely voice their disagreement to their government, one that has essentially become a single party ruled state. "

Partly true, but only because most don't know or care enough to read or get involved, but no different than any country. IMO the monarchy is making a huge comeback and us peasants are letting it happen.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And just last week the sign-holding protesters were against the pact. 

They are professional protestors, flip floppers, the same people who were anti GSOMIA until 2 days ago. Only motivated by money, like many South Korean.

The main opponents in S. Korea are the youth, and I find that rather sad. 

Its true. Younger Koreans under 30 are the ones who have a hatred of Japan, not so much the older generation. It means there is no chance of future good relation with Japan while there blinded by hate.

likely to irritate N Korea

Who cares about Tiny Kim, after he recently insulted PM Abe.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Pity South Korean youth have been brainwashed with a deep-rooted anti-Japanese sentiment.

What Heckleberry said.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

And just last week the sign-holding protesters were against the pact. How fickle some can be!

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Pity South Korean youth have been brainwashed with a deep-rooted anti-Japanese sentiment.

@Hokkaido - Pity that Japanese youths have been brainwashed for decades that they were trying to defend Asia from Western aggression, and that they were the victims not the aggressors.

Japan has less press freedom than SK and more authoritarian control over their citizens who rarely voice their disagreement to their government, one that has essentially become a single party ruled state.

Those youths are now middle-aged, scratching their heads as to why they still don't get along with their neighbours.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

The main opponents in S. Korea are the youth, and I find that rather sad. South Korea and Japan should crush the past and look forward to keep peace in the region. Pity South Korean youth have been brainwashed with a deep-rooted anti-Japanese sentiment.

5 ( +16 / -11 )

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