politics

Japan issues exclusion orders so far this year to 80 Chinese fishing ships

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5B) Japanese coast guard opens fire, then the Chinese returns fire and a shooting war starts, and the US can't intervene because Japan fired first.

If the Japanese ship fired at a Chinese ship inside Japan's EEZ or even better its territorial waters, then the US most certainly could come to Japan's aid. Japanese ships have fired on and sunk North Korean fishing boats on numerous occasions for illegally fishing inside Japan's EEZ.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Chinese are extremely good at not firing first, as seen from their border confrontations at India, where soldiers will resort to fists, clubs, and stones to fight, but never shoot.

That is a unique situation where the rules for that border area prohibit soldiers from carrying firearms exactly so a fist fight doesn't escalate into a border war.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Basically, Japan can't sink a Chinese fishing ship without risking starting a war. That's why Chinese fishing boats will simply ignore Japan's "orders", because they fully know Japan won't attempt to shoot at them.

Sink a few fishing boats and if one of their "Coast Guard" cutters fires shoot back. The Chinese will back off it you confront them forcefully. They Chinese will push until someone pushes back hard enough, then back off. A big war is the last thing they want. They count on other nations to be intimidated by them. The Myanmar Air Force back in 2009 conducted air strikes against the bases of Chinese supported rebels inside China and China did nothing.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@OssanJapan

China can not fire upon JCG vessels within the Senkaku waters without invoking Article 5 of the US-JPN Mutual Defense Treaty

How the situation would most likely unfold.

1) Japanese coast guard ship approaches a Chinese fishing ship.

2) Chinese fishing ship radios Chinese coast guard ships for help and run for it

3) Chinese coast guard ships block Japanese coast guard ships.

4) Some kind of confrontation takes place, such as water cannons or ramming.

At this point there are two possible paths.

5A) Japanese coast guard backs off, and Chinese declares victory.

5B) Japanese coast guard opens fire, then the Chinese returns fire and a shooting war starts, and the US can't intervene because Japan fired first.

Chinese are extremely good at not firing first, as seen from their border confrontations at India, where soldiers will resort to fists, clubs, and stones to fight, but never shoot.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Japan can certainly seize Chinese fishing boats and arrest the captains. But China can not fire upon JCG vessels within the Senkaku waters without invoking Article 5 of the US-JPN Mutual Defense Treaty and starting a shooting war with the United States. The U.S. has already declared that the Senkakus are covered.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japan really is half and half.

They don't dare piss off America, but they don't piss off China either. One way or another, this has to end.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

@Desert Tortoise

How much do the Japanese value their national sovereignty?

You were talking about a cheap way to sink a Chinese fishing boat in waters around the Diaoyu Islands.

Basically, Japan can't sink a Chinese fishing ship without risking starting a war. That's why Chinese fishing boats will simply ignore Japan's "orders", because they fully know Japan won't attempt to shoot at them.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

How much is a Japanese coast guard ship plus life insurance payout on all onboard that coast guard ship?

How much do the Japanese value their national sovereignty? If you want to bow to China and become their tributary state you don't need the US protecting you. Just saying ......................

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Desert Tortoise

A few solid hits from a medium caliber naval gun would sink most fishing boats

And the PLA Navy sinks the Japanese coast guard ship that sinked the Chinese fishing ship.

How much is a Japanese coast guard ship plus life insurance payout on all onboard that coast guard ship?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

and a torpedo.

Torpedoes are expensive! Most torpedoes cost many times more than the cost of a fishing boat. A few solid hits from a medium caliber naval gun would sink most fishing boats, as would cheap unguided folding fin rockets.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@englisc aspyrgend

The only way to deal with them is to seize and scrap the vessels,

Japanese coast guard can't, since that could trigger a Chinese military response.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Of course Japanese orders will be ignored in China since the waters around the Diaoyu Islands are considered Chinese waters in China.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Japan is all bark and no bite…

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Oh my. Not a decisively worded warning! Heaven forbid chinese ships will definitely follow a warning. Scuttle chinese ships entering japanese waters.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Pacific Saury, nah, most of their boats aren’t worth expending a torpedo on.

OzBurger, like your idea!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The only way to deal with them is to seize and scrap the vessels, fine the crew. Make it too expensive.

There are other ways. Nothing up my sleeves...a wave of the wand... a wide-band frequency blocker... and a torpedo.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Yes, quite a problem, but… Currently use your final energy and capacities better for fighting the virus spreading and pandemic, otherwise you are soon quite dead as society, economy or as individuals and won’t neither ship around those islands nor eat fish anymore for a very long eternal time. You obviously still don’t even nearly understand that, so I’m telling and recommending you that.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

The only way to deal with them is to seize and scrap the vessels, fine the crew. Make it too expensive.

 just drop the crew off at the front door to their countrie's embassy. Let them pay to return the crew.

Good ideas..

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Nahh, just drop the crew off at the front door to their countrie's embassy. Let them pay to return the crew.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

The only way to deal with them is to seize and scrap the vessels, fine the crew. Make it too expensive.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

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