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Japan says S Korean claim over radar lock-on baseless; breaks off defense talks

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It is marvelous that the Abe administration could have instigated domestic anti-Korean sentiment for a month without any evidence so far, but just with a mediocre sitcom-like YouTube video footage, whose major subscribers are supposed to be toddlers and kids. Once again, it demonstrated how easily any politician can brainwash and control Japanese jingoists. It was finished with a noisy audio stream.

Good job!

-31 ( +15 / -46 )

The noise is an audio conversion of the radio signal, somewhat similar to the dial-up tone of old modems, and a typical detection alert method for similar systems.

I reckon it’s about as much information the MOD feels comfortable with releasing, as the full data record carries encrypted information such as IFF codes.

26 ( +28 / -2 )

Japan will come back for another talk, no worry.

-35 ( +3 / -38 )

Ok kids time to take your toys home, the other side doesn't want to play fair!

22 ( +29 / -7 )

South Korea on Monday night expressed "deep regrets" over Japan's decision to halt bilateral talks.

Korean side wants to continue the talks because it can prove that its destroyer didn't lock onto the P-1.

Japan is cutting off its losses and is fleeing from talks because it has realized it can't prove a lock-on.

So Korea won. This is 2-0 against Japan, this victory and the IHO ultimatum against Japan that it would delete the Sea of Japan name off the IHO guideline next year unless Japan came to an agreement with Korea over naming.

-40 ( +10 / -50 )

@Samit Basu

2-0 against Japan?

Shows the Korean mentality when it comes to Japan.

This is not a friendly country or an ally of Japan. On every instance Korea has been rising tensions and anti-Japan hate, even going back on a deal sign as Final and Irreversible 3 years ago, deal sign in 1965 out the window. Now their trying to change the name of Japan Sea. Basu is correct about that.

S. Korea respects a tough China, they respect their tough leader Kim-Jun Un, they respect America. All this countries would never allow S. Korea to do what they've done to Japan. As long as your nice to S. Korea, willing to pay compensation, give apologies this problem will Never go Away.

33 ( +42 / -9 )

Pride!

Never admit.

Never apologize.

Walk away from any sort of compromise.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Lack of any clear full proof evidence and as expected, they run away with the tail tucked firmly between the legs. Shocker!!!

willing to pay compensation, give apologies this problem will Never go Away.

Ill give you this. The corrupt right wing regime that's favourable to japan is solely to blame. However like the Holocaust, this 'problem' must remain for all generations to remember, NEVER AGAIN!!

-30 ( +6 / -36 )

so in layman's terms they're not going to talk anymore because South Korea is going to continue to deny it even in the face of damning evidence so there's no point to keep this charade going

32 ( +37 / -5 )

I have been following this with interest and, honestly, who knows which side is telling the truth.

I tend to believe Japan at this point, but here is the thing. When it comes to defense matters, Japan and Korea are supposed to be allies, together with the U.S.

If Korea did, in fact, do this, why didn't Japan just deal with it with Korea in private, perhaps with the U.S, involved?!

I mean, what is the benefit of making this public?!

Unless there is a political objective by playing this out where everyone can see it. Of course, once that is done, both sides will have real difficulty in backing down / conceding ground / admitting wrong-doing.

I understand all of the issues between Korea and Japan, but this is just needless and stupid.

-15 ( +9 / -24 )

No more defense co-operation with South Korea. They can continue building their Defense co-operation with Communist PRC and NK, and Japan will keep getting stronger with number one power, USA. Trade sanctions will be next unless SK apologizes to the traumatized Japanese pilots.

19 ( +32 / -13 )

The announcement came as South Korea rejected Japan's proposal to carry out an "objective and neutral" probe to identify what happened by sharing what each other views as evidence

This is all anyone needs to read to show who is at fault here and it's not Japan.

@samit basu

Korean side wants to continue the talks because it can prove that its destroyer didn't lock onto the P-1.

Then why haven't they done so already? Why refuse to turn over the proof, which is basically all Japan is asking for? Because the proof doesn't exist and it's becoming more and more obvious every time Korea opens its mouth.

30 ( +37 / -7 )

Ganbare Japan!Today 08:07 am JST

No more defense co-operation with South Korea

You're an Australian living in Australia. Why would you want Australia to end defence co-operation with South Korea? In recent years the two countries have increased security co-operation greatly. Why do you want it to stop because of this spat between Japan and South Korea?

-21 ( +10 / -31 )

@Alfie

Har!

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

"Why do you want it to stop because of this spat between Japan and South Korea?"

Becasue South Korean can't be trusted

27 ( +36 / -9 )

Japan surveillance planes are probably always filming and recording as much as possible up in the sky. As for me and probably most people, more information of video and audio seem more persuasive for experts and ordinary people. Only 10 seconds video and just another repeated denials do not seem persuasive.

31 ( +31 / -0 )

I still don't get this "menacingly low" assertion by SK.

This isn't the age of torpedo bombers anymore.

26 ( +31 / -5 )

@Ganbare Japan!

No more defense co-operation with South Korea.

Indeed, and Korea can finally cut Japan off from its ballistic missile warning radar feed, so that the Aegis Ashore can't function.

Trade sanctions will be next

You got it backward.

Only the party that runs a trade/current account deficit can sanction the other party.

Therefore Korea can sanction Japan, Japan cannot do the same without risking a bigger loss.

@extanker

Then why haven't they done so already?

They did. Korea offered to exchange its STIR radar signature in exchange for the P-1's radar signature that Japan claimed to be a lock-on. Japan refused and demanded the radar signature of ALL of the Korean destroyer's radars.

So why did Japan demand the signatures of "ALL the radars" on the Korean destroyer? Because Japan knew the STIR radar signature wouldn't match, and is desperately trying to find something that fits.

-26 ( +6 / -32 )

I still don't get this "menacingly low" assertion by SK.

They had to actually place a circle around the P1 in their version of the video to even notice where it was. That is not at all what anyone would consider 'menacing'.

29 ( +32 / -3 )

@Wallace Fred

And japan can?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/09/22/national/media-national/problem-padding-employment-records-japan/

https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/japans-government-investigated-for-cheating-disability-hiring-quotas/

https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/japans-kobe-steel-under-fire-for-fudging-data-on-metals

Is that trustworthy in your book?

Two of those stories are about the same thing and one is about a private company which has no basis on whether or not to trust the government. Pretty weak argument.

27 ( +33 / -6 )

@Wallace

These are completely domestic matters for Japan. Any countries has more or less such similar matters. You try to find out faults, but your post is irrelevant with this article.

29 ( +32 / -3 )

@Samit Basu

Once again, you're filling in blanks with your own ideas and conjecture that you have no way of knowing so you can continue to fuel your anti-Japan narrative.

30 ( +34 / -4 )

These are completely domestic matters for Japan. Any countries has more or less such similar matters. You try to find out faults, but your post is irrelevant with this article.

This was a rebuttal to a crass claim of dishonesty. I simply pointed out the glaring hypocrisy seeing as absolutely nothing is done by the government to change the status quo seeing as it's an old boy's club anyway. Hence dishonest.

Pretty weak argument

Oh? How about this one?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

-31 ( +3 / -34 )

@Wallace

Did you read the article? It is still irrelevant.

27 ( +30 / -3 )

SK is the same as NK now. Leave SK and Seoul to its fate, enough is enough

24 ( +28 / -4 )

Did you read the article? It is still irrelevant

I don't think I need to point out the dishonesty in fudging historical facts, do I? And like I already said, the response is to the claim that Korea is not trustworthy. A strange case of incredible cognitive dissonance.

-25 ( +4 / -29 )

Until South Korea apologizes sincerely for this and pays reparations, all discussions on the supposed wartime comfort workers issue should be shelved indefinitely

21 ( +25 / -4 )

Until South Korea apologizes sincerely for this and pays reparations, all discussions on the supposed wartime comfort workers issue should be shelved indefinitely

Sincere apology? Ok, how about until japan sincerely apologizes and revises it's history books to relay what it did during that dark part of human history? How do you people continue to defend the indefensible?

-27 ( +3 / -30 )

Sincere apology? Ok, how about until japan sincerely apologizes and revises it's history books to relay what it did during that dark part of human history? How do you people continue to defend the indefensible?

Comparing apples and oranges.

25 ( +28 / -3 )

Sincere apology? Ok, how about until japan sincerely apologizes and revises it's history books to relay what it did during that dark part of human history? How do you people continue to defend the indefensible?

S Korea government should admit massacre and Lai Dai Han during the Vietnam war and should apologize and compensate to Vietnam first.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2182848/women-raped-korean-soldiers-during-vietnam-war-seek-seouls

25 ( +28 / -3 )

S Korea government should admit massacre and Lai Dai Han during the Vietnam war and should apologize and compensate to Vietnam first.

Oh? The president already did. I'm pretty sure abe won't be reciprocating any time soon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/86hzwn/moon_officially_apologizes_to_vietnam_south_korea/

-24 ( +3 / -27 )

@Wallace

How many times did S Korean government apologize and how much did it compensate to Vietnam? just like Japan did.

25 ( +28 / -3 )

How many times did S Korean government apologize and how much did it compensate to Vietnam? just like Japan did.

The fact that Japan has to 'apologize' perpetually shows how hollow the actions are given there's absorbing follow up to it. For example, history books still relay false historical narratives. Does that seem like a genuine apology to you?

-28 ( +2 / -30 )

It seems Japan (former prime ministers) have done genuine apologies and compensations times last 2 decades. As long as S Koreans have malicious intentions, S Koreans do not accept it. Most Vietnam people never accept Moon's apology, they may put a statue in front of the Embassy and demand much compensation for next decades.

26 ( +27 / -1 )

Most Vietnam people never accept Moon's apology, they may put a statue in front of the Embassy and demand much compensation for next decades.

If that is the case, so be it. They were the victim. You skillfully dodged my question though. I'll reiterate. Does Japan's continued white wash of historical narrative in school textbooks despite previous said apologies from PMs sound like genuine apologies to you?

-30 ( +1 / -31 )

Fabrication and distortion for mystification at the level of government, as shown in the noisy audio stream published yesterday by the JSD, has a far longer history and a far deeper origin than most people surmise. It covers from the old stone age to the modern Abe administration period, originating from the term 'Japanese' itself glorified in Nihon Shoki:

Summary: https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

Detailed: https://www.amazon.com/Ruins-Identity-Ethnogenesis-Japanese-Islands/dp/0824821564 (No time or no money? Just read the book review)

-27 ( +2 / -29 )

I still don't get this "menacingly low" assertion by SK.

This isn't the age of torpedo bombers anymore.

porto, as a former Air Defense Artillery officer, perhaps I can help. Most modern air defense systems have a minimum engagement bubble, inside of which the weapons system is ineffective. This is especially true for missile and radar engaged missiles.

This is part of the reason why ships will often have multiple weapons systems.

Now, while to the naked eye a plane that is 150 meters above you and 500 meters away might seem 'small,' to an ADA crewman, that's 'danger close.' In fact, to many systems that's already inside of minimum engagement distance.

-21 ( +4 / -25 )

Does Japan's continued white wash of historical narrative in school textbooks despite previous said apologies from PMs sound like genuine apologies to you?

It seems that Japan does not teach much about it in school, but never lie, at least all Japanese know what happened at that time (except right wingers). All former prime ministers did good apologies and present prime minister did it properly. Maybe you think something regarding ministers go to Yasukuni, it seems just traditional custom to go there for people. No offense. You see this is irrelevant with the article. No more talk about this.

23 ( +28 / -5 )

Regardless of how far and how much South Korea fabricates lies and data, we need to show understanding as they cannot help it, just like their North Korean brothers

19 ( +24 / -5 )

It seems that Japan does not teach much about it in school,

Seems? Its rather evident.

at least all Japanese know what happened at that time 

How can this statement be true if the first is glaringly wrong?

Now, while to the naked eye a plane that is 150 meters above you and 500 meters away might seem 'small,' to an ADA crewman, that's 'danger close.' In fact, to many systems that's already inside of minimum engagement distance.

Thanks David.

-25 ( +3 / -28 )

What seems to have gotten lost in all of this is asking what would have caused a Korean vessel to do this on purpose, and how would doing so have benefitted Korea, particularly when the two countries are allies?

26 ( +26 / -0 )

SJToday 10:49 am JST

The general thrust of your two links seem to be that most Japanese are Korean derivatives. Fine, so be it then. However, then this begs the question of the whole animosity over the so called "colonial period". The annexation will then basically be Korean Group 2, having achieved greater success than Korean Group 1, reunifying with Korean Group 1. A Japan with Korea in it, or a Korea with Japan in it, is the "correct" form.

And the whole business of 1592 becomes - Korean Group 2, which even then was more successful than Korean Group 1, decides to unify with them. Instead of siding with their ethnic brothers, Korean Group 1 calls on the help of other ethnicities (Chinese) against their own, and becomes the protectorate of said ethnicity. Really, Korean Group 1 :-)

And this incident would be Korean Group 1 hating Korean Group 2 so much they feel a need to use fire control radar on them. Hmm... I can see why Korean Group 2 would be a little agitated about this.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

I like how SK points out the hypocrisy of Japan, inadvertently or not, by asking to "form a joint team to look at the history of the issue objectively and get to the truth of the matter" and Japan cries foul and says the denial is "baseless". Classic! In any case, it's Japan that needs the defense, not SK, and Japan that suffers from the lack of sharing, not SK.

-27 ( +2 / -29 )

Personally I believe this should have been all handled with confidentiality and diplomacy at the highest-military level.

We the common people are rarely privy to the going ons of delicate international discussions, and especially so concerning military matters, and doubly esp so, when the matter concerns the intricate "alliance between US, SK & Japan. We the people, know close to zilch about what really happens. Why on this occasion was it splattered across the media like some kind of wide-show-sensationalistic-scoop?

Too many unanswered questions from both parties. But from the extremely limited information we mere mortals have access to, the question that does need to be addressed clearly - because we have real footage from both sides - is why was the plane flying so close to the SK ship? As has been posted and a little research added to, 150m height @ 500m is within the danger zone as David Varnes put it.

But we will get no clear answers from either side, because the fuelling of the "we don't like/trust you" fire must continue in order to prop up nationalistic hoo-haa!

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

Now, while to the naked eye a plane that is 150 meters above you and 500 meters away might seem 'small,' to an ADA crewman, that's 'danger close.' In fact, to many systems that's already inside of minimum engagement distance.

David Varnes, while that would hold true in a war zone, this occurred in Japan’s EEZ which Japan has a right and responsibility to patrol, and Japan and SK are considered to be friendly nations. The MOD also released videos of P-1’s and P3C’s making similar flybys and passes over Italian, French, British, and US warships over the Gulf of Aden during anti-piracy deployments. These were never met with complaints, but rather gratitude for the show of support.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

But we will get no clear answers from either side, because the fuelling of the "we don't like/trust you" fire must continue in order to prop up nationalistic hoo-haa!

Agreed.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

@BeerDeliveryGuy

this occurred in Japan’s EEZ which Japan has a right and responsibility to patrol

1.The incident didn't happen in Japan's EEZ. It happened in the PMZ zone as defined in the Japan-Korea Fisheries Treaty.

2.In the PMZ zone, both countries fish and administer equally. This is why the Korean coast guard ship was also there whose I-Band search radar the P-1 has mistaken as a lock-on radar.

3.As to why the PMZ line is so close to Japanese mainland, this is what would happen if Japan were to officially accept the Korean control of the Liancourt Rocks and the resulting EEZ line; most of what Japanese call "Sea of Japan" would in fact be controlled by Koreas and this is why Japan is claiming the Liancourt Rocks so hard.

-19 ( +2 / -21 )

Ha, Ha. So funny to see so many down votes in minutes after, with nary a comment 'cept for beerdelivery's.

Please add to the discussion - if you can - then we may have a possibility of analyzing the situation more thoroughly.

And I re-iterate, this is more about chest-thumping & brow-beating to reinforce ones own narrative - in this case both Japan & SK. Gaining domestic brownie points for shaky status.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

The Yamatotai Shoal where the incident occurred is well within Japan’s EEZ and is a hotspot for NK squid poaching.

Why is SK trying to deflect the main questions with misinformation and misplaced outrage?

Why did SK initially lie about the weather conditions and their proximity to the NK ship?

Why was the SK ship not flying colors; a violation of maritime law?

Why did they not respond to the radio call (audible in their own video) in accordance to international protocol?

19 ( +20 / -1 )

There are several speculations by various experts about what may have happened, but most agree that the sound signature is of a FCR, and that if not out of hostility or mischief, the SK ship directed its FCR at the P-1 to “chase it away.”

SK knows Japan will not release the digital data records, as it would reveal the P-1’s capabilities and SK’s FCR frequency and IFF encryption codes, and possibly ignite an international diplomatic row with nations that use the same systems and cost billions of dollars to upgrade.

There is speculation that SK was providing defacto security to NK poachers or providing illegal ship-to-ship transfers such as fuel or goods. Some speculations give SK the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were either extracting or inserting special forces. I think either is plausible, as even friendly nations rarely reveal SF activities to one another.

The Moon govt can’t/won’t apologize to Japan under any circumstance, for fear of losing their populist support base and with crucial NK talks and elections looming.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

The Moon govt can’t/won’t apologize to Japan under any circumstance, for fear of losing their populist support base and with crucial NK talks and elections looming.

If true, which is unlikely, it's simply a leaf borrowed from abes own playbook

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

I would love to negotiate on the two countries' behalf. I would treat the situation like I would with two squabbling youngsters:

"You! Stop buzzing their ships!"

"And you! Stop locking your radar on their planes!"

"Okay?!"

"Good! Shake hands and go to your rooms!"

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

It's all China's fault. Both Korea and Japan inherited the culture.

Losing face is the worst thing in the world, and facts get blown away like chaff.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Following information has been extracted from the sound file posted by the Japanese MoD by radar experts.

The radar is a revolving circular scanning radar, not a tracking radar. Japanese MoD claims debunked.

It was rotating at 20 RPM. No radar on the Korean destroyer rotates at 20 RPM. Hence the beam could not have originated from the Korean destroyer.

Japanese MoD is in a panic, they know they are screwed and this is why they didn't want to release the video the very first time.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

SK pretty much declared war on Japan with that lock on. they are denying this and still being hostile about it pretty much says they cannot be trusted. Cut off all diplomatic, commercial, and relations to them. Nullify all treaties and build bases on those islands SK is trying to steal from Japan. They could have avoided all this if they would have just acknowledged their mistake, punished the personnel that authorized the lock.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Cut off all diplomatic, commercial, and relations to them. Nullify all treaties and build bases on those islands SK is trying to steal from Japan.

Well it's a good thing you don't get to make policy

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Okay, let's straighten this out.

Dec 21 - Japanese MoD: made official announcement on the incident.

      - Korean MND: immediately responded that the radar was used to search for North Korean ship for rescue.

Dec 22 - MoD: stated that FCR is not suitable for broad rage searching, they should be using specific radar for se searching.

      - MND: replied, because the weather was so bad and the rescue needed to be prompt, all radars including FCR was used, but there was no intention to aim it at P-1.

Dec 23 - MND: further explained that an optical camera (attached to the radar) was used to check on the P-1 making menacing flight, but no radar was emitted.

        - MoD: there are proofs that the radar was locked on. They should not make any further excuses.

Dec 25 - MND: there were absolutely no radar emission.

        - MoD: P-1 was repeatedly and continuously irradiated by specific FCR wave directly from Korean Marine vessels.

         - MND: will work with Japan to resolve these misunderstandings.

Dec 28 - MoD: released a video taken by P-1 during the incident.

Jan 02 - MND: started to demand apology from Japan that the P-1 was flying dangerously low.

Jan 04 - MND: released a video criticizing Japan for the low flying altitude of the P-1. (The video mainly consists of the materials released by the MoD)

Jan 08 - MoD: repeatedly commented that Japan would be able to exchange radar wave records with the MND to deepen discussion.

Jan 14 - Both Japan and South Korea promised to hold further negotiations. But could not agree on terms of exchanging data.

Jan 21 - MoD: released location relationship diagram and RWR reception record receiving radar continuously waves and rings.

        - MND: RWR reception record cannot exactly prove the usage of FCR since various radars were used

Looks pretty understandable why the Japanese MoD decided to stop the talk. This is going nowhere.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

My questions are;

Why did the Korean explanation change from time to time?

Radar were used for searching -- all radars including FCR was used -- only optical camera was used an no radar emission -- absolutely no radar emission -- various radars were used for rescue (but no FCR)

Why did the explanation for not replying to (3 attempts) P-1 radio contact change?

Before the video footage: Could not make out what they were saying due to the weakness of radio and noises under bad weather.

After the video footage: The English was not fluent enough and therefore could not make out what they were saying.

The MND explained that this was a rescue mission, but if it was so, why was the help only directed to South Korea and not to Japan (being the fact that the area was claimed as EEZ by both Korea and Japan)?

Why did they actually need both the Korean Navy destroyer and Korean Coast Guard vessel for the rescue?

And why did none of them have any flags on them?

Was it really coincidence that the 'South Korean' vessels found and rescued 'North Korean' ships?

The MND claimed that P-1 was flying dangerously low and should apologize for the menacing act.

But the Japanese P-1 have came as close to the same Korean Navy destroyer and shot photos of them in April 27, April 28, and August 23. But no complaints were made back then.

Why did they complain this time?

The only questions for the Japanese, is that these incidents are usually handled very politically and would not be made public, unless the Koreans make some claim or issues first.

But why did they have to make it public this time? What is it so different from other issues?

13 ( +14 / -1 )

But why did they have to make it public this time? What is it so different from other issues?

There were flybys in the past. Japan navy planes have never been targeted by FC radar of S Korean warships. Japan thinks FC radar is as same as aiming gun at someone's head. Japan showed reasonable evidences of video footage but S Korea denied all. That is why. I imagined a stupid FCR officer would arbitrarily have done it against Japan P-1 plane as practical joke because probably he dislikes Japan. He did not think this would be the biggest issue between both countries. When he heard "What is the purpose of the action" from Japan P-1 plane, if he responded to answer quickly "sorry about FCR is a mistake" to the P-1 plane. Japanese captain understood it well and the P-1 plane would have gone back as usual.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Samit BasuToday 03:30 pm JST

Following information has been extracted from the sound file posted by the Japanese MoD by radar experts.

The radar is a revolving circular scanning radar, not a tracking radar. Japanese MoD claims debunked.

It was rotating at 20 RPM. No radar on the Korean destroyer rotates at 20 RPM. Hence the beam could not have originated from the Korean destroyer.

Looks as if Samit is in panic mode not even understanding what he is talking about.

A mechanical radar that is on search mode rotating at 20 Rotation Per Minute(RPM) or whatever cycle means there is a moment of time in which the emitter is completely pointing away from the receiver.

With a 20 RPM mechanical radar in a simplified explanation the sound will be a 1 second bleep followed by a 2 second silence since it takes 3 seconds to complete one rotation cycle.

Where is that 2 second silence within the recording?

It's a consistent sound that can only be emitted by a FC radar that is tracking the movement of the plane.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

@Triring

Where is that 2 second silence within the recording?

The audio was altered and filtered to mask the information Japan didn't want to leak.

Even then, it was possible to identify a 20 RPM revolving radar from the audio because same pattern was repeated every 3 second.

So people were wondering, why does Japan keep releasing information that contradicts its claims and damages its own credibility, first the video and now this audio?

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

@David Varnes

porto, as a former Air Defense Artillery officer, perhaps I can help. Most modern air defense systems have a minimum engagement bubble, inside of which the weapons system is ineffective. This is especially true for missile and radar engaged missiles.

This is part of the reason why ships will often have multiple weapons systems.

Now, while to the naked eye a plane that is 150 meters above you and 500 meters away might seem 'small,' to an ADA crewman, that's 'danger close.' In fact, to many systems that's already inside of minimum engagement distance.

Thanks for your insight, but this makes it even more suspicious that the SK ship did not respond to hails by the P1 if they felt that it was dangerously close. They knew a plane was dangerously close, but when they hear a radio call from a Japanese plane, they claim they thought it was calling a different ship, without even trying to find out if it's the one that they are worried about? It makes absolutely zero sense on the part of SK.

@samit basu

The audio was altered and filtered to mask the information Japan didn't want to leak.

Are you for real? You demand proof, they provide it and your only response is that it has been 'altered'...? Laughable. Your claims are about as believable as South Korea's.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Putting aside both of whether Korea emitted FC radar or not and Japan flew illegally low or not, focal point is what S.Korean vessel was doing with N.Korean boat in Japanese EEZ. Please choose one of follows; 1) S.Korea was breaking UN sanction against N.Korea. 2) S.Korea was supporting poaching by N.Korea. 3) S.Korea was intercepting N.Korean dignitary asylum.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

@extanker

this makes it even more suspicious that the SK ship did not respond to hails by the P1 if they felt that it was dangerously close.

They couldn't comprehend the Japanese P-1 captain's poor English. I couldn't understand a word of it after listening it over 5 times, even though it was recorded from the Japanese side. Now imagine what that would sounded like over the other side, a complete gibberish.

You demand proof, they provide it and your only response is that it has been 'altered'

The Japanese defense ministry said so themselves.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20190121_36/

The ministry says the file has been partially modified for the sake of confidentiality, because countries other than South Korea have the same fire-radar system.

@KittyGeroge

N.Korean boat in Japanese EEZ

It wasn't in Japanese EEZ. It was in the PMZ in accordance with Japan-Korea Fisheries Treaty. I am sick and tired of repeating this fact.

Please choose one of follows

how about

4) Korean destroyer and coast guard ship were rescuing a tiny NK fishing boat adrift, with one dead and four dying.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

They couldn't comprehend the Japanese P-1 captain's poor English. I couldn't understand a word of it after listening it over 5 times, even though it was recorded from the Japanese side. Now imagine what that would sounded like over the other side, a complete gibberish.

I've already called you out on this before, but I'll repeat it. The South Korean ship has what they are claiming to be an aircraft flying 'menacingly close'. They hear a garbled radio transmission (that really wasn't garbled, I could understand it, but whatever) and there response is to not bother to even try to find out if it is the aircraft that they are worried about attempting to contact them.

Are you sure you want to stick with that excuse? Because that is pure 100% incompetence on the part of the South Korean military and they are still at fault for letting the situation escalate instead of practicing the most basic of radio communication standards.

The Japanese defense ministry said so themselves.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20190121_36/

The ministry says the file has been partially modified for the sake of confidentiality, because countries other than South Korea have the same fire-radar system.

'Partially modified' is not the same as what you are implying, that it has been altered to purposely sound like something else. It simply means things have been removed for confidentiality. Nice try.

I am sick and tired of repeating this fact.

Gotta love the irony.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@extanker

but I'll repeat it.

Don't.

I could understand it

You must be familiar with Nippongrish or something. Most people in the world are not.

they are still at fault

So Koreans are responsible for a Japanese pilot speaking unintelligible Nippongrish that 99% of population in the world cannot comprehend? What the... You have been making some outrageous claims here, but that's stretching even by your standard.

'Partially modified' is not the same as what you are implying

Let me say it was "masked" to black out something, and to make it sound like there is a constant noise.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

So Koreans are responsible for a Japanese pilot speaking unintelligible Nippongrish that 99% of population in the world cannot comprehend?

No. The Koreans are responsible for not even trying to communicate in any way, shape or form with someone trying to communicate with them. Once again, not understanding a radio call is absolutely no excuse to ignore it. In fact, as I stated before, there is a standard radio protocol just for that. I learned it when I was 18 years old in basic training. But the Koreans chose to ignore it, just as you have.

What the... You have been making some outrageous claims here, but that's stretching even by your standard.

I'd say that it's a lot less outrageous then claiming it is acceptable for communications officers on a warship in open waters to ignore radio communication simply because they claim to not understand it or claim that a recording of a radio signal is fake just because it doesn't fit you're narrative.

You must be familiar with Nippongrish or something. Most people in the world are not.

No, I just took the time to listen to it. Was it perfect? Nope, but once again, had I heard that on the radio I would have followed it up with two simple and well known words: "Say again?" and stopped all these problems in their tracks.

and to make it sound like there is a constant noise.

And there you go again, making things up.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@extanker

Attitudes like seen above are the very reason Japan cut off the talks. No matter what evidence Japan submits, SK will pull the equivalent of a thief caught on camera saying “that not me! It’s CGI! Wait, maybe it is me, but I’m just helping rearrange these nasty shelves. Y’know, because I’m a humanitarian.”

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@beerdeliveryguy

Attitudes like seen above are the very reason Japan cut off the talks. No matter what evidence Japan submits, SK will pull the equivalent of a thief caught on camera saying “that not me! It’s CGI! Wait, maybe it is me, but I’m just helping rearrange these nasty shelves. Y’know, because I’m a humanitarian.”

I really don't understand how some of these conclusions are reached! Next they'll be blaming aliens...

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The argument that the SK vessel could not understand the English spoken by the P1 is ridiculous. First off I've heard plenty of Koreans speaking English over the years to know they don't speak English any better than the Japanese themselves. Secondly, both the Japanese and SK military are sufficiently proficient in English to carry out routine exercises with the United States. But then every excuse SK has given so far is ridiculous. What is SK's motivation here?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@kwatt

I imagined a stupid FCR officer would arbitrarily have done it against Japan P-1 plane as practical joke because probably he dislikes Japan.

I assume different. I don't think it was any kind of joke or mistake. I think he deliberately aimed the FCR on P-1 to run them off so they would not be caught on whatever they were actually doing out there. I seriously cannot believe that this was any rescue mission.

Why else the North Korean ships did not constantly alarm for help? Why else did none of them have any flags on their ship? And why else would the MND explanation change one after the other?

@OssanAmerica

The argument that the SK vessel could not understand the English spoken by the P1 is ridiculous.

Don't also forget that their arguments were that they could not make out what they were saying due to the weakness of radio and noises because of the 'harsh weather'. Until Japan released a video taken by P-1, which showed very calm weather.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I think he deliberately aimed the FCR on P-1 to run them off so they would not be caught on whatever they were actually doing out there. I seriously cannot believe that this was any rescue mission.

 

I think so too. It must have been a top secret mission they cannot let any others, especially Japanese navy, find out. Without any objective international standard applicable to military aircraft, depending on each different circumstance, menacingly low (flyby) is nothing but subjective and relative term, which is already self-evident by the fact S.K never complained by calling it menacing when the same P-1 approached to the same S.K destroyer 3 times last year. In the most unlikely event that they really felt so, it’s not because P-1 was menacingly low, but simply they were too strained from such secret mission where they even intentionally hid the colors, ignoring P-1’s radio calls.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What all of you are posting points to one thing, a conspiracy that goes way up the food chain and not some rogue captain that got pi$$ed off and used the FC radar as middle finger salute.

They can't court martial the captain since if they did then he (and/or the crew) will go public or worse the military will go against the government for not protecting a uniform that was simply following orders.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@extanker

No. The Koreans are responsible for not even trying to communicate in any way,

How can Koreans be responsible if they can't understand that they are being hailed due to Nippongrish? The destroyer crew thought the P-1 was calling out the coast guard ship next to it because that's what the Nippongrish scrambled in noise sounded like over the radio.

Say, I am being hailed in Spanish while walking down the street and I don't speak Spanish, am I being rude for not responding to the guy hailing me in Spanish?

No, I just took the time to listen to it.

There was no time to repeat listening in that situation.

@BeerDeliveryGuy

No matter what evidence Japan submits

What evidence?

@OssanJapan

First off I've heard plenty of Koreans speaking English over the years to know they don't speak English any better than the Japanese themselves.

You have been talking to wrong Koreans. Many Koreans under 30 speak English with an American accent. They are the first generation to have broken the curse of Nippongrish from the colonial era via an intestive native English speaking teacher program from Kindergarten. This is why you see tons of Korean celebrities and K-Pop stars speaking fluent English. Heck, you have to speak fluent English to go to top colleges and get a job with chaebuls and English is basically a survival skill in Korea.

Since Korea's naval academy is one of top institutions, this place is hard to get into and almost all graduates out of it speak fluent English.

In contrast, English speaking Japanese celebrities are as rare as white unicorns. Why? Japan's English education in school failed and current generation of Japanese still speak Nippongrish, because you don't have to speak English to survive in Japan unlike in Korea where it is a must for getting good jobs.

@unforgettable

I think he deliberately aimed the FCR on P-1 to run them off

System log check confirmed the STIR radar was off during the whole incident and the destroyer crew was cleared of wrong doings and is back on duty.

Why else the North Korean ships did not constantly alarm for help?

The North Korean ship in question was a tiny wooden boat with no modern radio.

Why else did none of them have any flags on their ship?

You can see in the video that the Japanese MoD posted that both Korean destroyer and the coast guard ship were hoisting Korean flags.

Until Japan released a video taken by P-1, which showed very calm weather.

They were looking for a tiny wooden boat buried in 1 meter high waves. Just became you can see well from 150 meter above doesn't mean you can do the same at sea level.

@Triring

They can't court martial the captain

The entire destroyer crew was cleared of wrongdoings after an intensive review. Remember, the STIR radar was OFF during the whole incident and there is noting wrong with using the search radar.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The destroyer crew thought the P-1 was calling out the coast guard ship next to it

So which is it, they couldn't understand it at all, or they thought it was a call for a different ship? The story changes yet again. Not suspicious at all.

Say, I am being hailed in Spanish while walking down the street and I don't speak Spanish, am I being rude for not responding to the guy hailing me in Spanish?

Now this is just nonsense. Why do you keep trying to come up with excuses for straight-up incompetence by the Koreans? There's a big difference between you 'walking down the street' and a warship worried about an aircraft flying 'menacingly close'.

You don't just ignore a radio call.

The entire destroyer crew was cleared of wrongdoings after an intensive review.

A review by the Korean military... I believe that about as much as I believe Kim Jong Un gave up his nuclear missile program.

Remember, the STIR radar was OFF during the whole incident and there is noting wrong with using the search radar.

Because the Koreans said so. I love how their 'system log' is 100% reliable, but anything Japan submits as proof has been doctored.

Be careful, your bias is showing.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Say, I am being hailed in Spanish while walking down the street and I don't speak Spanish, am I being rude for not responding to the guy hailing me in Spanish?

Interesting, Japan P-1 and P-3 seem testing S.K destroyer's reaction twice this month. It's reported that S.K destroyer warned P-3 flying-by through radio calls in Koreanglish more than 20times yesterday. Why it couldn't the same last month?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Say, I am being hailed in Spanish while walking down the street and I don't speak Spanish, am I being rude for not responding to the guy hailing me in Spanish?

Interesting, Japan P-1 and P-3 seem testing S.K destroyer's reaction twice this month. It's reported that S.K destroyer warned P-3 flying-by through radio calls in Koreanglish more than 20times yesterday. Why it couldn't the same last month?

I guess Japan doesn't have to answer, they could have been trying to call anyone. Who can understand what they were trying to say...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Korean Media Articles

South Korea P-3C patrol aircraft descends to 200 to 300 feet (61 m to 91 m) and fly.

http://news1.kr/articles/?3507931

News 1 December 23, 2018

The state-of-the-art maritime patrol aircraft P-3C in operation at the west sea flight usually flies about six hours to take off once. If it is necessary to precisely identify by visual inspection to perform the task normally 1000 to 1500 feet (203 to 457 m), it will descend to 200 to 300 feet (61 m to 91 m) and fly.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As the delivery of goods to North Korea is done at sea, Korea is becoming more nervous about Japanese surveillance.

In the future, they will be discovered one after another by monitoring of US UK Canada and other countries.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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