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Japan to release new evidence on S Korea's radar lock on plane

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Japan MoD announced the radar sound they recorded the day of the incident and is it strong.

A consecutive sound against a moving object so we know for certain that it is not a blip from a search radar.

Now ROK is saying the sound cannot be tagged to the day of the incident BUT they were silent if the recording was from a search radar again flipping their earlier excuse saying it originated from the coast guard vessel.

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/press/news/2019/01/21x.html

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@happyhour

Why are the Japanese holding back the evidence?

Let's hope that they do have so called an 'evidence' to hold back, although I am skeptical about it. If they do have it, then they would show more generous and composed responses.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

that it was the Coast Guard's I-Band search radar that the P-1 picked up.

Another glitch in this pathetic excuse, although I-band or X-band is utilized in search radar they are limited to surface radars which is pointed down towards the sea. Now how on earth was a radar pointing down be able to point it's antennas upwards towards the sky?

Any explanations for that Samit Basu?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Not to mention hiding flags, ignoring Japan's radio calls in 3 different and emergency frequencies, now blaming P-1 mistook it for I-Band Search Radar from Coast Guard Ship? . Stop making silly excuse. Coast Guard ship also weaponized with missile controlled by such radar.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

First, the article:

What audio recording? Are they going to play back the "beeped out parts" this time? While I guess it may depend on exactly what is said, but I think they should have eaten the loss and played the full tape, including the beeped out parts.

Or is it going to be the report that was supposedly sent up by SATCOM? Anyway, let's wait to hear this "audio recording" before further comments.

@IloveCoffee Today 08:52 am JST

How does releasing an audio recording of the pilots prove that the SK ship locked an FCR?

I actually agree partially with this, to the extent that the best any recording can prove is a subjective belief they were locked on.

@Samit Basu Today 11:11 am JST

That's 5 unsupported assertions. Do you have links? Korean Google translates quite well into Japanese.

@SJ Today 01:08 pm JST

A military source confirmed Friday that a Korean coast guard ship operated its own radar at the scene in question last month, possibly confusing a Japanese aircraft that it was locked in a warship's fire-control system.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/service/news_view.htm?lang=e&Seq_Code=142372

Yes, I've heard this is their latest throw. I'll throw in a Japanese-language link (a forward from Korea Joongang Daily):

http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/15883982/

しかし、艦艇が航空機攻撃用スパローミサイルを撃つために稼動するSTIRレーダーは海警艦や一般商船で使うIバンドとは明確な違いがあるという。広開土大王と同じ種類の艦艇で艦長の経験がある予備役海軍大佐は「STIRレーダーは出力があまりにも強いため、哨戒機が探知した場合、レーダースコープには水平な1つの列で現れる」とし「しかし、一般Iバンドレーダーだと地震波のような高低がある電波信号を送るため、専門家がこれを見たとすれば誤解しにくい状況」と説明した。日本がこれを知りつつも意図的に外交的な問題提起に出た可能性があるということだ。

Yes, the possibility of a misidentification is quite low. On the merits, there are three problems with this general idea:

1) It came close to a month late.

2) The only similarity indeed is most likely the general frequency band.

3) From the recording the radar suddenly came up. If it was the coast guard's boat radar, it should have been up for a long time.

@SJ Today 02:00 pm JST

Whether it is true or not, it is irrelevant with the issue here regarding the radar lock. Don't waste time in averting the issue.

That recording includes the sudden appearance of a strong radar contact and all the calls concerning that fact. In making clear that the Korean explanation is inconsistent with reality in a way even a layman can understand, it also ruins South Korea's credibility.

I'll also throw out this:

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190115-00010008-abema-kr

日本側が映像を公開する前日の12月27日に水面下で行われた日韓の防衛当局間による協議の席上、日本側が“動かぬ証拠“を提示していたことが取材で明らかになった。それは自衛隊機が記録していた韓国レーダーの「周波数特性」だという。

軍艦の火器管制レーダーは、全て別々の周波数を使用していることから、いわばレーダー版の“指紋“なのだという。「過去に収集した当該駆逐艦のデータと、今回のレーダーの周波数特性が合致している」というのが日本側の主張だが、韓国側は「我々は照射していない。その数字が証拠だと言うなら生のデータを出してほしい。韓国側で解析する」と反論。これに対し日本側が「データを出すなら相互主義だろう。お互いがデータを出し合い、照合して白黒つけよう」と提案すると、韓国側は「韓国の場合、レーダーの特性は機密だから渡せない」と応じたという。

So, according to this, the Japanese actually handed over the results of the analysis. The Koreans insisted on the raw data, the actual tape. The Japanese want the data from the destroyer.

This would seem to be consistent with the Korean claim the Japanese are not handing over "data", but you can see why they are not going to get "raw data" from Japan's latest kit without giving up anything in return.

IMO, it also gives some context to the well known American refusal to get involved. At this stage in the game, the so-called request for American assistance probably involved them revealing if any of THEIR SIGINT systems caught an appropriate signal at the correct time. Which will, of course, mean revealing a good bit about America's SIGINT capabilities.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why are the Japanese holding back the evidence?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

are you telling me to not waste my time with anything other than the radar lock? or telling SK to stop chopping and changing their story each time a new piece of evidence surfaces?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Why dont they relaesae the raw data from the plane's or ships black box.

The black box would mark what happen when it happen and how it happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@tokyo-star

but the video exposed SK's blatant lies and wriggling to get out of the situation: "NK boat in rough weather" vs calm seas in the video; "threatened by J plane's close proximity" vs ample distance/altitude in accordance with international regulations plus the fact that the plane was unarmed, flying slow and circling, ie. hardly posing a threat to a capable modern warship.

Whether it is true or not, it is irrelevant with the issue here regarding the radar lock. Don't waste time in averting the issue.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Actually the Abe administration has never provided any evidence.

maybe not of any lockon itself...audio could be doctored etc.

but the video exposed SK's blatant lies and wriggling to get out of the situation: "NK boat in rough weather" vs calm seas in the video; "threatened by J plane's close proximity" vs ample distance/altitude in accordance with international regulations plus the fact that the plane was unarmed, flying slow and circling, ie. hardly posing a threat to a capable modern warship.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@robotxparty

Guess the old "evidence" wasn't compelling enough.

Actually the Abe administration has never provided any evidence. The YouTube video is mostly for kids and teens, not for any government or military officials in diplomacy. If they consider it as an evidence, then they are just fools or childish scamps.

Thus, it is spectacular that the Abe administration could have managed to instigate domestic anti-Korean sentiment for a month even without providing any single evidence.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Verbally aggressive Japanese chauvinists now bombard their own player, a self-declared ultra-right wing Japanese politician, Toshio Tamogami, an expert on aircraft defense and the formal Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force. 

Not surprised. You either play ball or get rolled over.

 The Abe administration instigates domestic anti-S. Korean sentiment, which features the process of distorting history and making myth and propaganda for hatred.

Its the ldp modus operandi. The so called arrows all failed to connect. Plus seeing as NK is in reformation mode, a new boogeyman is required to numb the masses clamouring for real results.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

What a mess!

Verbally aggressive Japanese chauvinists now bombard their own player, a self-declared ultra-right wing Japanese politician, Toshio Tamogami, an expert on aircraft defense and the formal Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force. Then, it would not any more surprising that they criticize the S. Korean government and navy, and innocent Korean citizens, ignoring any fact that may make them suspect their sentimental belief. The Abe administration instigates domestic anti-S. Korean sentiment, which features the process of distorting history and making myth and propaganda for hatred. It is a pity that the old former general has to defend himself under the pressure of those jingoists:

https://twitter.com/toshio_tamogami/status/1084594819979046912

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Guess the old "evidence" wasn't compelling enough.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Samit Basu

The Korean side has concluded from the Japanese description of the signal that it was the I-Band search radar from the Coast Guard ship.

Yes. It is consistent with the following news report:

A military source confirmed Friday that a Korean coast guard ship operated its own radar at the scene in question last month, possibly confusing a Japanese aircraft that it was locked in a warship's fire-control system.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/service/news_view.htm?lang=e&Seq_Code=142372

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Like a dog with a bone, they just won't let go...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

why did SK not even bother replying to the initial radio contact by Japan pilots? even if the english was difficult to understand/background noise etc, they could say "say again, over" or something to acknowledge the messages.

SK is being so childish on this issue...'searching for a NK boat in rough weather" and the J video looked like calm(-ish) seas; SK felt "threatened by the plane's close proximity" when the plane was just a speck in the sky from the SK police video; no SK videos at all despite two heavily armed warships in the area - just some shaky handheld SK water police camcorder footage...

it all stinks of an illegal materiels transfer between SK and NK, and they got busted in J waters big time

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Actually the Korean side was consistent from the beginning,

Consistent ? After constantly flip-floping their story?

You must be joking.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

@Triring

Looks as if ROK is making another excuse. 

Actually the Korean side was consistent from the beginning, that it was the Coast Guard's I-Band search radar that the P-1 picked up. The evidence that Japanese officials provided confirms the Korean suspicion.

It is the Japanese side that keeps changing story, that it was first a "lock-on", now a "radar contact", from STIR radar to CIWS gun radar, looking for something that fits but nothing does.

Accepting this truth is a political decision and not a technical decision because evidences don't change and Japan now has to apologize before the world audience that it was mistaken and made a false accusation.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

S Korea will not admit to any wrong doing or to apologize or pay any damages.

What damages? It's only their ego's that got hurt for getting caught, but in the bigger picture neither side was "harmed".

Yes it COULD have been something else if the two countries were at war, but then the surveillance plane would not have been up there alone either.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I wouldn't believe any evidence Japan supplied.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

The Korean side has concluded from the Japanese description of the signal that it was the I-Band search radar from the Coast Guard ship.

Looks as if ROK is making another excuse. I-band is an Eu/NATO designation which in ITU designation is X-band which is popularly used for FC radars due to it's high frequency. STIR-180 utilizes X-Band as well.

The best evidence would be the wave characteristics as shown below illustrating the difference between FC radar and search radar.

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/press/news/2018/12/28z_1.pdf

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Some update on the situation following the meeting between Japanese and Korean officials.

The Japanese side confirmed it was an I-Band radar.

The Japanese side now use the term "radar contact" instead of "lock-on".

The Japanese side has now ruled out the STIR radar as the source of radar emission.

The reason Japanese MoD asked for all radar signature on the Korean destroyer is to check for the possibility that the source of radar emission was the CIWS gun's radar.

The Korean side already ruled out the CIWS gun's radar as the source of radar emission that the P-1 picked up. The Korean side has concluded from the Japanese description of the signal that it was the I-Band search radar from the Coast Guard ship.
-10 ( +5 / -15 )

@Triring

Who is the one that is childish?

To track the origin of your mysterious hatred of Koreans, please read the following article published by a prestigious scholar, Jared Diamond, the author of "Guns, Germs and Steel". It will illuminate your identity ruined and dimmed by the Japanese leaders and scholars.

https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

I've heard this. Vietnam government has been demanding apology and compensation to S Korean government for a long time, but S Korea never apologized so far about Lai Dai Han during Vietnam war. S Korea never admits the S Koreans massacre there because it has stupid egos.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Ex_ResToday  10:02 am JST

But not with SK because small countries have big egos.

South Korea may be a small country, but at least it has a sense of justice.

Really?

"South Korea has never acknowledged the historical claims, yet continues to demand apologies from Japan for its use of ‘comfort women’

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2182848/women-raped-korean-soldiers-during-vietnam-war-seek-seouls

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Enough evidence given.., now is time for realistic action .

S Korea will not admit to any wrong doing or to apologize or pay any damages.

Therefore, one easy action is to demand stop irrational court case demands on WWII problems which is S Korea's problem, and "may be" Japan will stop providing more concrete evidence which can embarrass S Korea.

And there are many more positive, rational and reasonable actions that can be taken.

If they do not listen, then "stop" all foreign aid in the trillions of yen to S Korea "immediately.

If that does not work, then require all S Korean ownership of Japanese properties and businesses in Japan to be limited to less than 40% with limited rights.

If that does not work, then demand that S Korea leave Senkaku island or else Japan will "nationalize" ALL S Korean owned properties and businesses in Japan.

And so on...

Action and not rhetoric... as they apparently will not listen to reason and respond rationally...

10 ( +12 / -2 )

But not with SK because small countries have big egos.

South Korea may be a small country, but at least it has a sense of justice.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

IloveCoffeeToday 08:52 am JST

How does releasing an audio recording of the pilots prove that the SK ship locked an FCR? Even if the two pilots say that they have detected an FCR, that is not an evidence that they have. I can't believe how utterly incompetent the J-govt. is. Their way of thinking is so childish.

Arguing even though not knowing the difference between FC radar and search radar?

Who is the one that is childish?

Since FC radar is used for targeting, the audio will be a near constant sound while search radar will sound like a blip sound since the radar is search the entire surrounding.

Audio recording sound is the sound of the receiving antenna picking up the radar frequency.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I think, If Japan has more evidences, show as many as possible to the world and If S Korea has any evidences show as many as possible to the world. I heard the warship did not film/record the incident. The warship has many cameras to all directions, I wonder why they did not film whole rescuing activity and flying J plane. I'm really surprised at most parts of the video were filmed by Japan surveillance and S Korea Coast Guard filmed only 10 seconds of flying high plane.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Folks, I DONT believe either of them most of the time...……..just sayin!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Now the Abe administration is going to entertain YouTube subscribers (mostly kids and teenagers) with an audio clip, following the mediocre sitcom-like video clip? Let's see. Good luck.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

I can't believe how utterly incompetent the J-govt. is. Their way of thinking is so childish.

SK is the childish one. This is all yet another smokescreen to whip up anti-Japan feeling to avoid the coup against Moon. Why cant Korea just admit they locked the radar on the planes, that the order was issued from the top, and apologize to the terrified Japanese pilots?

12 ( +16 / -4 )

How does releasing an audio recording of the pilots prove that the SK ship locked an FCR? Even if the two pilots say that they have detected an FCR, that is not an evidence that they have. I can't believe how utterly incompetent the J-govt. is. Their way of thinking is so childish.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

read between the lines they're not saying they didn't do it they're just saying you can't prove it that's an indication right there

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Agreed. Under normal circumstances such an announcement would likely lead to the other party making a better effort to resolve the issue. But not with SK because small countries have big egos.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Next time don't make threats, do it. This is just another political game being played.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

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