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Japan warns May on Brexit: 'We cannot continue in UK without profit'

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By Costas Pitas

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119 Comments
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Capitalism obvious over here.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Even if you support the ideas behind Brexit, it's maddness to think that you can just walk away from the world's largest trading block after 40 years of integration without crippling large parts of your own economy. Brexit is a once in a lifetime chance for Europe to dismantle some of the UK's most successful industries. Automotive, financial services and pharmaceuticals being the most high profile.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Not a day goes by without someone 'warning' Theresa May... She must be getting tired of it. I know I am.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Time for China to shine.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Japan warns May on Brexit: 'We cannot continue in UK without profit'

Let Japan leave if it wants to. When it becomes evident that the UK economy is not going to collapse like the doomsayers said it will, Japan will come crawling back on its hands and knees and will be sent to the back of the line when it comes to trade negociations

-20 ( +11 / -31 )

Japan will come crawling back on its hands and knees

Right, there are only 194 other countries to go to after all.

23 ( +28 / -5 )

Let’s be honest. If all the Japanese companies in the UK suddenly packed up and left, that would make one hell of an interesting news story. Go for it CEOs! The perfect accompaniment to my toast and milky coffee.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Who cares. Asia has grown up. It is not a Japan centric Asia anymore. Pull out and the U. K. Will be just fine.

-20 ( +5 / -25 )

Japan should just up and leave and set up shop in Europe. May is just unable to handle her role as she has said nothing and she should just leave her PM job.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Again the 3rd largest economy in the world spits the dummy over another countries decision that's perceived as bad for business, diversify grow a pair. Another countries choices are not an attack.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Right, there are only 194 other countries to go to after all.

the UK can say the exact SAME THING

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

@Cricky

Nobody's seeing anything as an "attack". Just stating facts. The Brexiteers are fond of telling people that everything's going to be okay. Which is fine, but I'm just happy that myself and my family are thousands of miles away.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

Anyway, the CANZUK proposal is taking off, and if the UK is a part of that, EVERYONE, EU, JAPAN, US, EVERYONE will coming knocking.

New Zealand Government Opens Door For CANZUK Trade & Migration Deal

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/11/new-zealand-government-opens-door-for-canzuk-trade-migration-deal.html

Canadian Opposition Leader Advocates Immediate CANZUK Trade Deal

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/10/canadian-leader-canzuk-trade.html

CANZUK International’s Proposals Advocated In The Australian Senate

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/09/canzuk-advocated-senate.html

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

No matter what, Japan will have to pull out some of their businesses and investments out of the UK after Brexit, particularly in finance and insurance I would say. The days where London is the global financial centre of the world are over, which is very unfortunate as that industry supports millions of jobs in the UK

11 ( +13 / -2 )

@Aly

I don't suggest for a moment that this is your opinion, but don't you see an element of bigotry here? A trade bloc with the Frenchies and those other weird Europeans is bad, but a trade bloc with English-speaking, overwhelmingly white nations is great.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

It'll be grand. The Republic of Ireland will happily welcome more investment from Japan. Takeda are doing well, there.

The UK had its chance. Anyway, I'm sure they'll be fine, going their own way.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

the UK can say the exact SAME THING

Ok, then :

UK will come crawling back on its hands and knees and will be sent to the back of the line when it comes to trade negociations

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Here's the reality of the situation people:

Brexit is going to happen. I didn't like it, but it happened. There was a referendum and now we have to respect the democratic outcome. I am not a Brexiter. I was a Remainer. However, unlike many other Remainers, I have

come to accept brexit as a reality and

no longer see it as a disaster but actually an opportunity to IMPROVE the UK through a different union. The UK is in talks today with the governments of CAN, OZ and NZ for a free trade and free movement deal. This will serve the UK even better than the EU did. The other 3 countries have a similar stanadard of living, if not higher, have extremely advanced and robust economies and share far more similarities with the UK than ANY European country- including the same head of state. This makes sense.

Brexit may also be good for Europe in the long run. Ever closer integration was constantly fought by the UK. With the UK out, there may be more consensus among the block and less of a pushback against EU federalization- which I suspect is the main goal. And which, by the way, I support wholeheartedly.

How many British remainers here would like to see the UK as part of a Federated Europe? How many remainers are ready to give up the pound for the Euro? Believe it or not, I was. The one thing I ever liked and supported Tony Blair over was trying to get the UK into the Eurozone, and I believed that until the day BREXIT actually HAPPENED. I believe in a federated europe. I also believe that an overwhelming majority of Europe's problems come from the fact that not everyone is in the Euro and that there is not enough integration. I believe a federated Europe with one currency, one army, and one voice would go a long way to solve many of the problems in the bloc.

Now the UK COULD have been a part of that, but it chose not to. Fine. But now, we have to ask ourselves- now what? Brexit is a reality. So how does the UK go forward? Well, we can start by going back to our commonwealth roots by forming trade agreements there. We can start by forming an EU style agreement with Canada, OZ and NZ. All is not lost. We can move forward with this.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

I don't suggest for a moment that this is your opinion, but don't you see an element of bigotry here?

Lucabrasi- I know you would never think of me as a biggot brother. No need to even have to say that.

A trade bloc with the Frenchies and those other weird Europeans is bad, but a trade bloc with English-speaking, overwhelmingly white nations is great.

Well, I would have to disagree with the premise here. First of all, NONE of the nations are WHITE anymore than the European nations are. Canada is a nation of immigrants FAR more than ANY European country as is Australia. NZ has a large Maori population which isn't white, and the UK doesn't look white at all. Scandanavia on the other hand..

And if we really want to look at bigotry, we can see how the EU has treated many asylum seekers; we can see how the EU will not let Turkey into the EU because they are "not european"

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

UK will come crawling back on its hands and knees and will be sent to the back of the line when it comes to trade negociations

No it won't

Australia Will Pursue One-On-One Trade Deal With UK

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/01/australia-pursue-trade-uk.html

A Canada-UK Trade Deal Should Include Open Borders For People”

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his British counterpart, Theresa May, announced last week that the two countries are negotiating a free trade deal aimed to come into force after Britain leaves the European Union.

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/09/canada-uk-open-borders.html

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Nice try though Bintaro

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@Aly

Yeah, maybe it will be better for everyone, I don't know. UK was never that committed to EU in the first place, so maybe. But saying for example that Japan will "come back crawling" is going a bit far, don't you think ?

Maybe brexit will not be such a big economic disaster for UK, I don't know. But it sure will be even less so for other countries.

Anyway, I don't care, as what pisses me off about brexit is how Scotland was treated.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

It's clear that volume car makers will gradually move from the UK to the EU over the coming years. They cannot afford to rely on May's vacuous comments and drivel.

The UK will be in a similar situation to Australia, where the last big car maker shut down last year. If you have a huge market, like the US and China, companies will build factories there to get around tariffs, but the UK market by itself is not big enough to absorb the output of large car factories. If the UK introduces tariffs on imported cars it will only harm UK consumers; it will not attract inward investment.

May was even telling the Japanese yesterday that the UK leaving the EU will allow the UK to forge a closer trading relationship with Japan. If there was free trade between the UK and Japan there would be no need for Japanese companies to invest in the UK: they could export directly from Japan.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@Aly

Well, I hope it works out. You sound optimistic. I've been in Japan so long that I find it difficult to care so much. England's become one of those "nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there" countries....

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Nice and subtle lol.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah, maybe it will be better for everyone, I don't know. UK was never that committed to EU in the first place, so maybe. But saying for example that Japan will "come back crawling" is going a bit far, don't you think ?

Yes it was. You're right. But I was very pissed off at Japan becuase I felt it was taking a cheap shot at the UK. But I'm sorry I snapped at you.

Maybe brexit will not be such a big economic disaster for UK, I don't know. But it sure will be even less so for other countries.

Yeah exactly. At the end of the day, who knows. But some things to keep in mind: The UK is the second largest economy in the EU with the most powerful army. Brexit will certainly put a dent in the EU's standing. No doubt about that. But I do believe that the divorce can and should be amicable. I don't agree with how the EU is handling this.

Anyway, I don't care, as what pisses me off about brexit is how Scotland was treated.

Oh don't get me started on that. Preaching to the choir on that one brother. I watched the Scottish referendum debates and it seemed to me the main reason scotland didn't leave was because they wanted to remain in the EU. They got screwed royally.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Well, I hope it works out. You sound optimistic.

I'm only optimistic on account of the possibility of CANZUK. If THAT falls through, I think we can all agree the UK will be royally screwed.

I've been in Japan so long that I find it difficult to care so much. England's become one of those "nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there" countries....

As always, I agree with you 100%

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Let's debunk CANZUK again (and hopefully for the last time). The UK's combined bilateral trade with Canada, Australia and New Zealand is £31bn according to the UK office of national statistics. Total imports to these 3 countries are £12.8bn and total exports are £18.2.

The UK's total bilateral trade with ONLY Belgium is £42bn.

The UK's total bilateral trade with Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania is also the exact £31bn as CANZUK but there is no fringe group out there advocating for ROPUKCZ.

The UK's total bilateral trade with the EU is £554bn. That's £318.2bn of imports and £235.8 of exports. The top 5 trading partners are Germany (£124.2bn), Netherlands (£73.4bn), France (£71.4bn), Ireland (£47.5bn) and Spain (£42.6bn). They all singlehandedly dwarf a hypothetical this CANZUK. It obviously makes far more sense to trade with your close neighbours. As I've mentioned before, Canada's trade with just the US state of Michigan is 10x its trade with the UK.

Some CANZUKsters might argue that trade will only start to blossom after the CANZUK trade deal is signed, but what specific products is the UK producing that would benefit greatly from lower tariffs or reduced regulation? The answer is nothing significant. The trade in agricultural goods would probably increase, but this would only be a detriment to UK farmers. There is no pot of gold at the end of the CANZUK rainbow.

https://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-trade-partners/

9 ( +10 / -1 )

BintaroToday  08:15 am JST

Japan will come crawling back on its hands and knees

Right, there are only 194 other countries to go to after all.

Sure, but there are about 4 that might meet Japans criteria and to safely guarantee them the freedom to trade as they wish. It’s interesting to note that Japan doesn’t have “free trade” with the rest of Asia and doesn’t compare anywhere close to Britain’s International financial services which should remain completely unaffected by Brexit, and yet they have the worlds third largest economy! I am pretty sure Britain, who by the way, started the whole industrial revolution has the wherewithal to successfully navigate a trade deal that secures it’s future success. The actual problem for Britain with regards to Brexit is getting beyond Europe’s clearly personal vendetta against The British people for even thinking of leaving the EU which they view as a personal insult! It’s not! Britain simply wants to make decisions on how to run itself (not Brussels) and it wants free trade. Japan wants to run itself (100%) AND it wants free trade on goods that don’t interfere with its domestic “closed” market, which Britain does NOT want. If they won’t allow Britain to do this it will purely be down to spite! But why, when both Norway and Switzerland and others within the bloc have special dispensation regarding EU Law. The EU (Germany) will use Britain as an example to the rest of those, within the bloc, not to even think about leaving. To do otherwise will open the door to others who want free trade but rather decide their own governing policies, like Britain. Result: Attempt to cripple Britain unfairly. It’s inevitable, and at the very least Britain will know who it’s friends really are and it appears Japan is not one of them. I wonder how the Japanese would take it if British Companies threatened withdrawal from Japan, unless they open up their borders and markets to the rest of Asia...lol...I suspect they would be told not to let the door hit them in their backs on their way out. Don’t do as we do, just do as we say!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

May has to accept Brexit and own it or quit. (JRM4PM)

Leave the EU as soon as possible on WTO rules. (WTO tariffs are miniscule)

UK has more freedom and a huge trade deficit (80 Billion Euros) with the EU.

German companies will demand a trade deal with the UK to avoid loss of business.

I will wager that Japanese companies will not move. The cost to move will be astronomical and they'll find running their businesses too restrictive in the EU compared to the UK.
-1 ( +4 / -5 )

M3M3M3

Automotive, financial services and pharmaceuticals being the most high profile.

Britain's car making industry virtually disappeared while UK was in the EU single market. Before the UK joined the bloc, it was one of the world's biggest auto producers and employed thousands of well-paid, unionized workers, nearly all of whom were thrown out of work after the UK signed on to the EU .

The japanese ambassador is a career civil servant who zero business experience. I would prefer to hear from, say, Hitachi and how Brexit will supposedly affect, say, its Cross Rail involvement.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The referendum was on a hypothetical Brexit based on projections from both sides. Some of these projections have proved to be completely false. Some were never anything more than political lies. Prominent Brexit campaigners even told people to ignore "experts".

History, when not being distorted by vested interests, is full of people changing their minds. The vast majority of governments never enact their manifestos in spite of being voted in to do so. No one still has a clue what trade deal the UK will get with the EU, but we have an idea of how much leaving will cost and what the UK will no longer have. To continue with this is a separate decision to any vote on whether a hypothetical Brexit was preferable. The government pursuing but failing to complete Brexit would be no different to the government pursing but failing to cut the deficit, to introduce a computer system into the NHS, to create jobs, ....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan warned Prime Minister Theresa May on Thursday that its companies would have to leave Britain if trade barriers after Brexit made them unprofitable.

WOW, I wonder if abe would give the SAME advice here in Japan???

After all around 70% of businesses here in Japan either lose money every year or make a tiny profit!! This has been going on for many decades, maybe its time most businesses left Japan!!!

4 ( +7 / -3 )

May has already sold out Britain to china judging by her recent trip. It goes without saying that the chinanese will now manipulate Britain to make things as difficult for Japanese companies as possible. Enjoy being china's lapdog, May.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The UK's total bilateral trade with the EU is £554bn.

It’s not the UK who wants to toss that bilateral trade out the window! It’s the EU who is threatening it! There is absolutely nothing, other than petty pride, preventing that trade figure from continuing. Britain wants a free trade agreement, the EU does not, unless it can control Britain. That says a lot about the EU!

Their slogan should be: Freedom...without free trade!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

May has already sold out Britain to china judging by her recent trip. It goes without saying that the chinanese will now manipulate Britain to make things as difficult for Japanese companies as possible. Enjoy being china's lapdog, May.

Rediculous!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@JeffLee

Britain's car making industry virtually disappeared while UK was in the EU single market. Before the UK joined the bloc, it was one of the world's biggest auto producers and employed thousands of well-paid, unionized workers, nearly all of whom were thrown out of work after the UK signed on to the EU .

But nearly as many cars are produced in the UK today (1.7 million) as in the all time record year of 1972 (1.92 million). I think the domestic market matured in the 1970s and it's unrealistic to think you will ever match it. I agree that domestic British car brands have almost all disappeared but how is that the EU's fault? Doesn't it have far more to do with successive socialist governments regulating and nationalising the industry? If you think it's the EU, can you point to any specific regulations or directives that you think led to the decline? I'm genuinely curious since I haven't heard this theory before.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Looks like Japan's not getting the special exceptions it wants. It'll be funny when May simply tells them to take it or leave it, and they know they'll take it.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

@Dukeleto

There is absolutely nothing, other than petty pride, preventing that trade figure from continuing. Britain wants a free trade agreement, the EU does not, unless it can control Britain. That says a lot about the EU!

It's actually not up to the EU institutions to approve a trade agreement with the UK. Ultimately it's up to each individual member country to agree. The messy reality is that they all have to do what's best for their own citizens. If the Czech Republic is convinced that they have a shot at getting Toyota to relocate there after Brexit, they are going to be reluctant to approve a deal even if Germany or France are desperate for a deal. There are many interest groups which could derail a deal and I think it's very likely.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Let's debunk CANZUK again (and hopefully for the last time).

You never debunked it in the first place.

The UK's combined bilateral trade with Canada, Australia and New Zealand is £31bn according to the UK office of national statistics. Total imports to these 3 countries are £12.8bn and total exports are £18.2.

So what? That's ONLY because these countries signed trade agreements with the UK THROUGH the EU, LIMITING in fact, what the UK could and couldn't import and export.

The UK's total bilateral trade with ONLY Belgium is £42bn.

Nice smoke mirror. You forgot to mention that that 42billion is a TRADE SURPLUS for Belgium- NOT the UK. Therefore NOT having that bilateral trade with Belgium is beneficial to the UK and bad for Belgium. The UK economy is, after all, the SECOND largest after Germany's in the EU. Belgium is one which loses out when that trade is shelved.

The UK's total bilateral trade with Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania is also the exact £31bn as CANZUK but there is no fringe group out there advocating for ROPUKCZ.

Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania DON'T speak the same language as the UK, don't have advanced economies like the CANZUK partners do, don't have the same parlimentary system, don't have the same standard of living, don't have have the same head of state.... What are you talking about??

The UK's total bilateral trade with the EU is £554bn. That's £318.2bn of imports and £235.8 of exports. The top 5 trading partners are Germany (£124.2bn), Netherlands (£73.4bn), France (£71.4bn), Ireland (£47.5bn) and Spain (£42.6bn). They all singlehandedly dwarf a hypothetical this CANZUK. It obviously makes far more sense to trade with your close neighbours.

It obviously makes far more sense to trade with your close neighbours?? So are you saying the EU doesn't trade with anyone but its neighbors? Didn't the EU sign a FTA with Canada and South Korea? Are THEY the EU's neighbors?? And doesn't the EU trade with Switzerland and Norway IN SPITE of them both being European but have nothing to do with the EU? Your above argument holds NO water.

As I've mentioned before, Canada's trade with just the US state of Michigan is 10x its trade with the UK.

This is due to two reasons:

one is that Canada's trade policy has been focused on the US through Nafta, but with Trump threating to tear up NAFTA Canada's trade with Michigan will decrease ALOT!

The EU dicatated what trade policies could exist between CAN and UK. Now with Brexit AND Nafta being purged, there will be more trade with the UK and less with Michigan. Again incorrect.

Some CANZUKsters might argue that trade will only start to blossom after the CANZUK trade deal is signed, but what specific products is the UK producing that would benefit greatly from lower tariffs or reduced regulation? The answer is nothing significant.

Really. The fact of the matter is that the trans tasman agreement between OZ and NZ ALONE benefitted BOTH countries tremendously. Including the UK and Canada would be significant. The CANZUK trade block would have an economy larger than Japan's- the third largest economy in the world.

The trade in agricultural goods would probably increase, but this would only be a detriment to UK farmers.

No it wouldn't. They would be able to access the Asian market with the help and influence of OZ and NZ, same as Canada.

There is no pot of gold at the end of the CANZUK rainbow.

Certainly not for the germans who are sour over losing the second largest economy and the largest military in Europe. Germany is the dominant force in the EU. As the EU gets stronger, Germany gets stronger. That's why the germans are none too happy at Brexit. But the UK will be just fine. When we have a CANZUK union, and we will, the EU, Japan, US, China, EVERYONE will come knocking.

You didn't dispel the canzuk myth. it isn't a myth. Its inevitable. Deal with it

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

I love it how Japan is acting as if it doesn't put up solid trade barriers itself. Sure, it's easy for foreign companies to do business here. You don't need tie-ups with local firms, right? And foreign rice isn't taxed 700%, right?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

CANZUK Area Average

English speakers (population): 78.85% (excluding bi-lingual French-Canadians)

Life expectancy from birth: 81.37 years

Population: 31,594,366

Population growth rate: 0.79%

GDP (Official exchange rate): $1.42 trillion

GDP per capita: $47,225

Unemployment rate (of population): 6.0%

Inflation rate: 0.97%

http://www.canzukinternational.com/why-canzuk

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Anyway, the CANZUK proposal is taking off, and if the UK is a part of that, EVERYONE, EU, JAPAN, US, EVERYONE will coming knocking. 60% of UK exprts go to the EU, Australia NZ, Canada wont even come close to filling the hole thatll be left over when the EU tariffs hit the UK. dont expect trump do buy UK exports without massive imports from America. The Brexiteers can paint it as rosy as they like, the truth is the EU sharks are circling whatll be left of UK manufacturing

5 ( +7 / -2 )

But I'm sorry I snapped at you.

No problem, seems we pretty much agree on everything in the end.

I felt it was taking a cheap shot at the UK.

I have to admit it's a pretty arrogant way of talking...

No doubt about that. But I do believe that the divorce can and should be amicable. I don't agree with how the EU is handling this.

I agree, the "let's set an example" is pretty troubling. Even I am pro-Europe, and I am worried when so many people in so many countries express their anti-EU sentiment, I think it is unfair and a terrible message to send to everyone.

I watched the Scottish referendum debates and it seemed to me the main reason scotland didn't leave was because they wanted to remain in the EU. They got screwed royally.

Exactly ! There was not one part of Scotland that voted to leave. And if that's not unfair, I don't know what is !

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Dukeleto

Yeah, I agree !

Aly and I got in a little argument, but I actually agree with him that if UK and Japan can't do business together anymore, no big deal ! They each will do business somewhere else.

After all, the US left TPP negociations, and it was not the end of the world.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sorry one mistake.

the population of CANZUK is 126, 377,465

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The cost to move will be astronomical and they'll find running their businesses too restrictive in the EU compared to the UK. of course theyll move , the cost will be far higher when theyre made in UK vehicles cant compete because of the EU tariffs. there are plenty of EU countries that can take Japanese auto factories, even Germany with its thriving auto industry would be as efficient of not more so than UK manufactured vehicles. At the end of the day you dont get to crash a party and expect no repercussions because of that. The EU will make being in the EU more advantageous than not, otherwise why would any other country want to stay, and rightly so.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Aly and I got in a little argument, but I actually agree with him that if UK and Japan can't do business together anymore, no big deal ! They each will do business somewhere else.

My apologies to you again. And you are right.

After all, the US left TPP negociations, and it was not the end of the world.

As usual, spot on

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

It is simple, if the Japanese companies in the UK can make a profit they will stay. If the Japanese companies in the UK lose money they will cease operations.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@wtfjapan

You do know that Japanese cars have punitive EU tariffs on them now,don't you? It's 10.2% (This is because Germany doesn't want Japanese cars at the same price as German ones)

It's not a case of whether other countries in the EU have the ability to host the manufacturers or not. It still costs an enormous amount of money to move.

You think that Germany will be happy to have Japanese car manufacturers operating in Germany? (I think not)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Brexit will be great, I doubt the economic effects will be in any way as large as the naysayers say

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Maybe Britain and America should tell Japan if they don't keep manufacturing in their Countries they wont help Japan with their problems with North Korea, South Korea, Russia and China.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Maybe countries involved should keep threatening each other until they get what they want.

Surely that's the way forward, these days?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Aly Rustom

So what? That's ONLY because these countries signed trade agreements with the UK THROUGH the EU, LIMITING in fact, what the UK could and couldn't import and export.

Please name a product that the UK cannot currently import or export to Canada and Australia without facing massive tariffs and regulatory barriers. Let's get specific.

Nice smoke mirror. You forgot to mention that that 42billion is a TRADE SURPLUS for Belgium- NOT the UK. Therefore NOT having that bilateral trade with Belgium is beneficial to the UK and bad for Belgium.

Come on, this is nonsense Aly. If it were as simple as 'Trade Surplus=Good' and 'Trade Deficit=Bad' why would Canada, Australia or New Zealand ever join CANZUK? They all run a trade deficit with the UK. Should they cut all trade in goods with the UK immediately to stop 'losing'? This is Trump-o-nomics. The UK has a huge surplus with the EU when it comes to services and the idea that a deficit is inherently bad is far to simplistic. It's an indicator of economic activity, not a scorecard.

Belgium is one which loses out when that trade is shelved.

It won't be shelved because the UK cannot impose tariffs on the majority of things it buys from the EU, nor would it want to considering there are probably no significant domestic manufacturers to protect. Most of Belgiums exports are chemicals and pharmaceuticals, nearly all free on WTO terms.

Certainly not for the germans who are sour over losing the second largest economy

Germany is not a monolith. While some oppose Brexit, others welcome the new opportunities (ie. in the financial sector)

CANZUK Area Average

Population: 31,594,366

> Sorry one mistake. the population of CANZUK is 126, 377,465

No Aly, you didn't make any mistake. You were right the first time, and that's what makes me laugh every time you post this statistic. As per the CANZUK website, the 'average' population of CANZUK is in fact 31,594,366 (Total population divided by 4 countries). Of course, the reason your brain instantly recognised that something might be a bit odd with this number is because this is the most meaningless and bizarre statistic one could ever calculate. It really gives us a glimpse into the minds of the geniuses behind CANZUK International. God forbid Ireland ever joins CANZUK or the 'average' population of CANZUK will plumet by over 500,000 people to only 26,230,000. Averages like this are completely ridiculous.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

> Come on, this is nonsense Aly. If it were as simple as 'Trade Surplus=Good' and 'Trade Deficit=Bad' why would Canada, Australia or New Zealand ever join CANZUK? They all run a trade deficit with the UK. Should they cut all trade in goods with the UK immediately to stop 'losing'?

That's not the point. your point was that the UK would be losing out on trade with Belgium and my point simply was it would not be a loss because we run a trade deficit. You are trying to make it like the UK is going to lose out on trade and when I point out that we are going to be just fine you brand it Trump. Let's get serious.

The UK has a huge surplus with the EU when it comes to services

But not with goods- as you know.

It won't be shelved because the UK cannot impose tariffs on the majority of things it buys from the EU, nor would it want to considering there are probably no significant domestic manufacturers to protect. Most of Belgiums exports are chemicals and pharmaceuticals, nearly all free on WTO terms.

EXACTLY. And that was my point all along. The UK leaving Europe is not the end of the world. Europe will still trade with the UK under WTO rules. We don't need to be in the EU to trade with the EU. Switzerland isn't. Norway isn't. Why do we have to be in the EU to trade with you? Why can't we have the same agreement as Canada and South Korea? THEY have FTAs with the EU and they are not even in Europe.

As per the CANZUK website, the 'average' population of CANZUK is in fact 31,594,366 *

  Really?

The population of the UK is 65,648,100 ALONE

Population of Canada is 35,099,836 ALONE

Population of Australia is 22,751,014

Population of New Zealand is 4,438,393

Check the numbers and do the math yourself

CANZUK population 126, 377,465

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Plus, the main point is that the UK will be just fine. We can still have a FTA with the EU. Others do and they are not even in the continent of Europe. The only reason to not have an FTA with the UK is that the EU wants to simply punish the UK for leaving.

One more thing

*As per the CANZUK website, the 'average' population of CANZUK is in fact 31,594,366 **

Canzuk's average population actually isn't the issue here. The population of the bloc is 126, 377,465. All four countries have a very high standard of living- some of the highest in the world. They all have populations with strong purchasing power. A union would be very successful.

Brexit and Canzuk will happen. Just come to terms with it and lets move on from there. But trying to strongarm the UK back into the EU like it is obviously trying to do is not going to happen

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

You do know that Japanese cars have punitive EU tariffs on them now,don't you? It's 10.2% (This is because Germany doesn't want Japanese cars at the same price as German ones)

That would be for cars produced in Japan and imported to the EU. Cars produced in the UK by Japanese manufacturers today (which is what is being discussed) aren't subject to that tariff.

It's not a case of whether other countries in the EU have the ability to host the manufacturers or not. It still costs an enormous amount of money to move.

Yes, those Japanese manufacturers have certain sunk costs, so its true it will cost a lot for them to move. But if the added costs of tariffs to sell cars produced in the UK in the EU is more than those costs, the manufacturers will just eat that one time cost and move. Not sure if that will happen, it will obviously depend on the outcome of the negotiations over Brexit, but its certainly a possibility.

You think that Germany will be happy to have Japanese car manufacturers operating in Germany? (I think not)

Just to be clear though, Japanese manufacturers can set up anywhere in Europe, not just Germany, and once their cars are in the common market they can be sold freely anywhere in it without further tariffs or barriers to movement, regardless of what Germany wants.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Collectively the three carmakers build nearly half of Britain's 1.67 million cars.

Cars are "assembled" in the car plants, Car Plants do not "manufacture" car parts. Those parts "engines" , glass, radio's, seats, tires, rubber are spread out and manufactured all over the EU and shipped to the UK

So this ehhhh... Aly Rustom is saying that the Cansuk's population will solve the manufacturing of car parts and ship to UK Car plants with frictionless problems and the Japanese company's in the UK will still export their product to where?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So this ehhhh... Aly Rustom is saying that the Cansuk's population will solve the manufacturing of car parts and ship to UK Car plants with frictionless problems and the Japanese company's in the UK will still export their product to where?

Didn't say that. Do not put words in my mouth. What Im saying is that the UK will be not neccessarily be worse off outside of the EU due to Canzuk. That is irrespective of car parts. I didn't nor am not going to comment on car parts.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Japan warned Prime Minister Theresa May on Thursday that its companies would have to leave Britain if trade barriers after Brexit made them unprofitable.

So you are saying

What Im saying is that the UK will be not neccessarily be worse off outside of the EU due to Canzuk. 

Aren't you just a little off topic

2 ( +2 / -0 )

They should told Mr.Cameron two years ago!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What Im saying is that the UK will be not neccessarily be worse off outside of the EU due to Canzuk. 

Aren't you just a little off topic

I don't think that I am. This whole article is about Japan pulling out of the UK due to lack of perceived profitability. The UK's economic health and future are pertinant to this discussion, in my opinion.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

80% or more, of Japanese made cars in the UK are exported to the EU markets so while the UK can work out a good trade deal for Japan, and Japan doing the same, the UK will no longer have any authority over EU rules even during the transition to import tariffs the EU will place on exports from the UK including the movement of goods across the Irish/UK border.

I don't think anyone really knows what will happen until we are actually out.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The Japanese car companies got tax benefits for building their factories but those would increase if they moved them into the EU.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Aly Rustom

That's not the point. your point was that the UK would be losing out on trade with Belgium and my point simply was it would not be a loss because we run a trade deficit.

Hey Aly. That was not my point. My point was that Belgium is a bigger overall trading partner so the UK would be far better off aligning itself with Belgium than a smaller market overseas. Same goes for Canada with the US and Australia with Asia Pacific. The trade deficit is not as significant as you seem to think. There is a whole complex economic ecosystem where the money Brits spend on Belgian chocolates ends up coming back to Britain in the form of investment and savings. Except for a few years in the early 1980s and mid 1990s, the UK has been running a trade deficit for decades but they are wealthier than ever. Why is that?

The other point is that the UK hasn't lost CANZUK trade by being in the EU either, just like you say it won't lose Belgian trade. The only products that the EU is aggresively keeping out are agricultural products, but nearly country does that and I think Brexit Britain will do this as well.

EXACTLY. And that was my point all along. The UK leaving Europe is not the end of the world. Europe will still trade with the UK under WTO rules.

We are in total agreement here, but only on goods. The goods trade and tariffs have been really overstated in the Brexit debate in my opinion. However, services is where Brexit Britain is massively vulnerable. London is the undisputed financial capital of Europe for historic, legal and linguistic reasons. So much Japanese, Chinese, and Middle Eastern money destined for investments in the EU is funneled through London. The companies, head offices and accounts are all registered in the UK. There are thousands upon thousands of bankers, lawyers, chartered accountants, tax planners, patent attorneys and business consultants that rely on this international service trade. Once the UK is out of the EU, none of these companies satisfy the residency requirements of the EU anymore. They cannot sell into Europe without single market access. They need to replicate significant parts of their business in the EU. So many bank and insurance companies have already started to do this. The danger is that a country like the Netherlands seizes this opportunity and changes their regulatory environment to turn Amsterdam into the new London (And they are doing this. They recently passed a law cutting taxes on dividends). They will have the law, the talent, the language (nearly everyone can speak English), and they will be in the biggest single market in the world, not outside.

We don't need to be in the EU to trade with the EU. Switzerland isn't. Norway isn't.

True, but both Norway and Switzerland are fully in the single market for goods and services. They pay for access. They have to accept free movement as well.

Check the numbers and do the math yourself

I think you've misunderstood but it's OK. You were totally correct both times. My point was just that average population is the dumbest thing to ever calculate, but CANZUK Intl did it. It's like saying the average population of England and Scotland is 29.1 million (53m+5.2m/2). It's a statistic with zero information value.

Finally, I just want to say one thing and I'd really like to get your reaction to this because it might be something you've overlooked. When it comes to CANZUK, I personally think the idea of free movement would be great. It's only the idea of a comprehensive trade agreement and regulatory alignment between these 4 far flung countries that is complete nonsense in my opinion. However, if you are prepared to drop the silly trade agreement, there is absolutely nothing preventing the UK from having free movement with Canada and Australia and NZ while remaining in the EU. You could even add Ireland to the club. There is no EU regulation which prevents a member state from agreeing free movement with a third country. The UK already does this with some of its overseas territories. The Netherlands does this with some of it's current and former non-EU colonies. France has this with it's external territories. France and Quebec already have a special arrangement (but not full free movement). Aly, will you join me in supporting a limited CAIRNZUK free movement agreement while also recognising that the best place for the UK in terms of trade and prosperity is firmly inside the EU? Will you stand with me against the anti-Irish CANZUK extremists who are selling a pipedream? :)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The only reason to not have an FTA with the UK is that the EU wants to simply punish the UK for leaving.

It's not punishment. It's looking after your own interests first. If the EU does not try to squeeze every last job out of the UK in the Brexit negotiations, they will be betraying their own citizens.

But trying to strongarm the UK back into the EU like it is obviously trying to do is not going to happen

There will obviously be a Brexit. It will not be reversed. But what about rejoining?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

J News, can please refer to "May and her ministers" as Prime minister May or Mrs T May, as for Toyota pulling out of the UK it would leave a massive hole in our economy here in Derby as there are several thousand employees and god knows how many other service employees and suppliers, but if Toyota pull out of the UK the UK government should slap a hefty import duty ( depending on what brexit agreement is made) on cars that will be made out side the UK, The government seems hell bent on going through with this Brexit but its not to late to turn around and say "sorry were now not leaving" I think that leaving the EU is one big c*** up, as a nation we sold a load of lies by so called experts, telling the UK residents that it s good to leave and how bad it was for us to stay in the EU, but as it transpired its not that bad after all, to the rest of the world the UK must be a laughing stock.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is a whole complex economic ecosystem where the money Brits spend on Belgian chocolates ends up coming back to Britain in the form of investment and savings. Except for a few years in the early 1980s and mid 1990s, the UK has been running a trade deficit for decades but they are wealthier than ever. Why is that?

If that is true then you should be GLAD we are leaving..

However, services is where Brexit Britain is massively vulnerable. London is the undisputed financial capital of Europe for historic, legal and linguistic reasons. So much Japanese, Chinese, and Middle Eastern money destined for investments in the EU is funneled through London. The companies, head offices and accounts are all registered in the UK. There are thousands upon thousands of bankers, lawyers, chartered accountants, tax planners, patent attorneys and business consultants that rely on this international service trade.

There can still be free trade and full service access. Again, whether or not we are in the EU is not relevant.

Once the UK is out of the EU, none of these companies satisfy the residency requirements of the EU anymore. They cannot sell into Europe without single market access. They need to replicate significant parts of their business in the EU. So many bank and insurance companies have already started to do this. The danger is that a country like the Netherlands seizes this opportunity and changes their regulatory environment to turn Amsterdam into the new London (And they are doing this. They recently passed a law cutting taxes on dividends). They will have the law, the talent, the language (nearly everyone can speak English), and they will be in the biggest single market in the world, not outside.

All of the points you have stated above can be fixed by a FTA that sees these issues addressed. NONE of these issues need to be hampered by Brexit. IF these countries choose to pack up and leave, fine. But they won't. They'll stay and itll be business as usual. Not cooperating with the UK to solve these issues while accepting Brexit is the real danger.

True, but both Norway and Switzerland are fully in the single market for goods and services. They pay for access. They have to accept free movement as well.

From what I understand, the free movement is limited. They cant just come into the EU and live indefinitely. I could be wrong. But what Brexiters said, (and I am not one of them) is that they want a deal similar to those 2 countries so the negociations can go along those points.

It's only the idea of a comprehensive trade agreement and regulatory alignment between these 4 far flung countries that is complete nonsense in my opinion.

It would be easier between those 4 countries that are so similar than it is for the EU nations which are so different. It is not complete nonesense. What is complete nonsense is putting developing countries like Romania and Bulgaria in with developed countries like Holland, Belgium and Germany. THAT makes much less sense than CANZUK any day. And the proof is in the pudding. The EU is a mess.

there is absolutely nothing preventing the UK from having free movement with Canada and Australia and NZ while remaining in the EU.

Of course there is. THAT'S why they are waiting for Brexit so they can negociate with the UK. They still can't do that now.

You could even add Ireland to the club.

What are you talking about?? Ireland IS in the EU! They even use the Euro

There is no EU regulation which prevents a member state from agreeing free movement with a third country.

I'M sorry but you are wrong on this one.

The UK already does this with some of its overseas territories.

Because they are a part of the UK-more or less. They NEVER gained independence. The EU CANT exclude them.

Aly, will you join me in supporting a limited CAIRNZUK free movement agreement while also recognising that the best place for the UK in terms of trade and prosperity is firmly inside the EU?

I think that CANZUK can exist separately from the EU but still continue to support it. We might even see a CANZUK EU Super FTA open borders agreement in the future. But for now, Brexit is a reality, and CANZUK is too.

Will you stand with me against the anti-Irish CANZUK extremists who are selling a pipedream? :)

I honestly don't know where this is coming from.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

But what about rejoining?

Ring ring a roses!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Bintaro:

I understand the frustration concerning Scotland. Unfortunately, the UK is not a federation, but a unitary state. If it were a federation consisting of the states of England, Scotland, Wales, and North Ireland, then perhaps a 2/3 vote of parliament and 3/4 vote of each state would have been required for BREXIT. Excellent chamce now to federalize the Uk, while everyone is still annoyed enough.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Brian wheway:

I suspect that not honouring the referendum would be as undemocratic as the queen refusing assent, which hasn't happened since 1707 (essentially vetoing a bill - how many times have US presidents done such?). There would probably be riots, successive fall of govts, and calls of undemocratic recall of a popular vote.

On a side note, I am all for the queen (head of state) to refuse assent the same way the Irish president does: 1) to check constitutionality by sending to high court, or 2) send as referendum to the people, but as I stated above, until the UK becomes a federation, it would be the total vote, not number of votes in each state.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I would be sorry to see the Japanese companies leave the UK. and really do believe that after Brexit Japanese companies such as Nissan, Toyota will continue to be profitable for all.

However, there is life after Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Aly

M3M3M3: there is absolutely nothing preventing the UK from having free movement with Canada and Australia and NZ while remaining in the EU.

Aly Rustom: Of course there is. THAT'S why they are waiting for Brexit so they can negociate with the UK. They still can't do that now.

Hi Aly, you are wrong on this point and I really suggest you look into it (maybe email your MEP?). The EU has no power whatsoever to tell the UK which non-EU citizens will or won't be allowed to live and work in the UK. Immigration and visa policy for third country citizens is left entirely in the discretion of the the member states. They are free to reduce non-EU immigration to zero or invite everyone from Canada and Australia if they want or even to sell their citizenship to wealthy people (Like Malta and Cyprus). The one thing member states cannot do in the immigration sphere is restrict free movement from other EU countries. Trade is obviously different; the EU has exclusive competency to negotiate trade agreements and set tariffs etc.

What are you talking about?? Ireland IS in the EU! They even use the Euro

Ireland could be part of CAIRNZUK while remaining in the EU if the agreement is limited to only to free movement and not trade issues.

From what I understand, the free movement is limited. They cant just come into the EU and live indefinitely. I could be wrong.

Both Norway and Switzerland enjoy full free movement rights just like any other EU country. It's indefinite as long as the agreements are in force.

There can still be free trade and full service access. Again, whether or not we are in the EU is not relevant.

All of the points you have stated above can be fixed by a FTA that sees these issues addressed.

Yes they could, but the EU would demand a budget contribution, full regulatory compliance, ECJ oversight, and free movement. Basically everything the UK doesn't seem prepared to accept.

What is complete nonsense is putting developing countries like Romania and Bulgaria in with developed countries like Holland, Belgium and Germany. THAT makes much less sense than CANZUK any day. And the proof is in the pudding. The EU is a mess.

I suppose this gets to the very heart of why the EU even exists; to help the peoples of Europe prosper through free trade and mutual peaceful cooperation. I don't think we should exclude poorer countries. We all stand to benefit from their economic development.

I think that CANZUK can exist separately from the EU but still continue to support it. We might even see a CANZUK EU Super FTA open borders agreement in the future.

True, but I think it's far more realistic for the UK to be in the EU trade block, Canada to be in the North American trading bloc and Aus/NZ to be in an Asia Pacific trading bloc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@zichi

Ring ring a roses!

Hey Zichi. I think it's a real possibility especially since young people were so pro-EU. Much will depend on how the economy works out. The real problem with re-entry is that EU rules state that any new member is bound to join the Schengen area and adopt the Euro. I think an exception would have to be agreed for the UK.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

M3M3M3

sorry but I don't think re-entry will ever happen. Not only worse than before but would also need the 100% of all the EU countries.

Once the fat lady sings it's over and done!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

M3M3M3

From what I understand if indeed Switzerland and Norway have the same rights of every country why are they not in the European Union-this makes absolutely no sense.

However if you can find me a link that proves otherwise I’ll gladly read it. Also please find me a link that says that the European countries all have complete autonomy over their immigration borders, Because you’re the very first person I’ve ever heard that said that.

you talked about helping the poor countries in the EU like Romania and Bulgaria. Well if that’s the case and they’re not there to mooch off the EU, why don’t they join the euro? Why are countries like Poland and Bulgaria remaining within the economic zone but not taking the currency? Is it because maybe their citizens can work through Europe’s System, get paid in euros or pounds and then send the money back home like they have been doing for ages? Yet the same countries turn around and reject asylum-seekers from countries that really need them.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Your last comment about Canada being in a North American trade block, the UK being in Europe, and Australia and New Zealand being an Asian trade block is just pure fantasy. All 3 blocks are destined to fail because the countries that are in them are all completely different with different standards of living and different levels of development. What other countries in Asia measure up to Australia and New Zealand? Japan and South Korea While they are developed economies still do not have the same standard of living as Australia New Zealand. you would see everybody in Asia move to Australia or New Zealand- it is impossible

Do you really think Mexico will have open borders with both the added states and Canada? It’ll never happen. And Canada is the only one with free healthcare and education. It doesn’t work. The only reason Canzuk works Is because all the countries have similar living standards.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The number one exporter isn't a country but a union. The EU is the world's largest exporter worth $2,659,000 million. 

The UK is 10th, $412,100 million. Canada 11th $402,100 million. 26th Australia $184,100 million. New Zealand 59th $34,410 million.

Japan is 4th $641,400 million.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The only reason to not have an FTA with the UK is that the EU wants to simply punish the UK for leaving. no they want EU countries that stay within the EU to keep the advantages they have now, if UK leaves and they keep all the trading advantages why would any other EU country want to stay. EU will make being in the EU more advantageous than not.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

There isn't a company  irrespective  of geographical location that could meaningfully remain in  business without the revenue gained from a business activity exceeding the expenses, the definition of profit.

Consider this EU referendum result produced a 72.2 per cent turnout, 17,410,742 people voting to leave the broadest most prodigious vote in British electoral history. 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

Like it or loath it that that is democracy, fair and square, fail to heed that and the alternative will be conflict without end.

The global community including the Government of Japan must respect the will of the people of Great Britain that voted to leave the European Union.

For better or for worst whatever the consequences with or without this so called implementation /transition period. The threats, warnings have to stop, the alternative, well you just don't want to go there.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

* **no they want EU countries that stay within the EU to keep the advantages they have now, if UK leaves and they keep all the trading advantages why would any other EU country want to stay. EU will make being in the EU more advantageous than not.*

If that were true they would not have a free trade agreement with South Korea, Canada, Norway, or Switzerland. But they do

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So just why did they go to the UK in the first place, rather than France or Germany ?

Was the UK the bad boy of Europe giving preferential tax breaks to foreign companies that the rest of the European countries weren't allowed to do ?

The German workforce is/was supposedly enpar with the Japanese for Efficiency, so why not relocate there ? Unless of course.... there was some form of protectionism going on.... after all, the UK no longer has it's own Car industry unlike France, Germany, Italy and .. other European Countries, perhaps Greece would be a good place to relocate to ?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Should the UK leave Europe still ?

Yes.

The UK however needs a better government to handle this transition. None of the current parties have the slightest clue on what is really needed as they each lack a true Leader for this momentous event. It's sadly a time of seeking the next "King" who can pull the (proverbial) sword out of the stone.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Britain can't leave the EU customs union without creating a hard Irish border, says Michael Barnier as he threatens to block transition deal unless UK accepts free movement rules

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So just why did they go to the UK in the first place, rather than France or Germany ?

I think they went there ages ago. Like in the 80s... The EU, as we know today, didn't even exist back then.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Aly Rustom, what you are saying it's not technically wrong, but have you been in Europe recently? The sentiment towards this Union it's at the lowest level ever. Now, if the UK leave and manage to stay in the free market.... i can tell you 4/5 members who are not going to be happy at all. Some big names among them. It could easily be the end of the EU. So in my opinion the EU will try to punish UK as hard as possible.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

From the photo, left side of the table, third from the end. That's Liam Fox. He once said he'd progressed from the days when he was a student. Strange idea of progress. Why is such an idiot sitting in on this?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

One wonders, after BrExit... what next ?

Perhaps we'll start to question what was the whole BrExit thing about in the first place ?

Restoring British values ?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Just how to restore British values when the UK has become so inundated with people from all over the World, predominantly former Colonial countries.

Was the original intention to kick out all the non culturally British starting with the Indians & Paki's from Birmingham / Manchester and some west London suburbs ? And just got confused a bit with the recent uncontrolled influx of migrants into Europe and grew into the BrExit movement ?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Or was BrExit about seeing Germany effective ruling Europe again, and saying no to that for the UK. After-all, the UK was the only European Country, baring Russia, to have not been taken over by Germany during the 2nd World War.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Aly Rustom

However if you can find me a link that proves otherwise I’ll gladly read it. Also please find me a link that says that the European countries all have complete autonomy over their immigration borders, Because you’re the very first person I’ve ever heard that said that.

Sure Aly, both Norway and Switzerland are part of a group called the European Free Trade Association (EFTA). The document that allows these countries to access the EU single market is the EEA agreement between the two. Article 28(1) of the agreement contains the rights to free movement:

Article 28, 1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured among EC Member States and EFTA States.

http://www.efta.int/Legal-Text/EEA-Agreement-1327

For a less legalistic answer, you can have a look at this website for Norway:

If you’re a European citizen wondering if you can move to Norway, the short answer is yes. Although Norway is not a member of the European Union, it is a member of the European Economic Area (EEA) and the Schengen passport-free zone. Norway is therefore bound by the same freedom of movement rules as all the other EU member states.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/immigration-from-europe/

On the European Union's lack of control over the immigration policies of individual member states, you're asking me to prove a negative. The Lisbon Treaty lays out all of the things which the EU is allowed to do, but it doesn't waste time listing the millions of things that the EU is not allowed to do. So I can't point to somewhere that says 'The Union shall not interfere with the immigration policies of the member states'. The most I can do is point to Article 3a which says:

1.   In accordance with Article 3b, competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States.

Decisions over the immigration of non-EU citizens is not a competency that has ever been conferred on the EU, it remains with the member state. This is why Britain is legally allowed to limit the immigration of non-EU spouses into the UK if the other spouse doesn't meet a minimum earnings threshold, while at the other end of the spectrum a country like France gives non-EU spouses automatic French citizenship from day one. It's why Germany was allowed to invite the refugees, while Austria was allowed to unilaterally put a daily cap on asylum seekers they would accept. Britain has total control over non-EU immigration policy even if it is fully in the EU.

In terms of CANZUK free movement, perhaps the best example to use is the Common Travel Area (CTA) between the UK and Ireland. This is an agreement that allows the Irish to work in the UK and vice versa. It has nothing to do with the European Union. Both countries have confirmed that this will continue even after Brexit. The EU will have no power to stop Ireland from allowing Brits (who will now be non-eu third country nationals) to move to Ireland and excercise their free movement rights under the CTA. There is no reason why Ireland couldn't sign a similar CTA with another non-EU country like Canada or Australia. Britain could do the same even if it remains fully in the EU. If someone tells you otherwise, do not believe them. If the part of CANZUK that excites you most is free movement, then please realise that it can happen today. Those who are insisting on a trade agreement to accompany free movement are just slowing you down. There are so many problems and criticisms against the free trade agreement aspect, but almost none against free movement. Keep it simple if you actually want to succeed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-and-uk-citizens-common-travel-area-rights-protected-1.3337125

From what I understand if indeed Switzerland and Norway have the same rights of every country why are they not in the European Union-this makes absolutely no sense.

Norway has had 2 referendums to join the EU. Both times the 'no' vote won. The EU is popular amongst politicians and people in metropolitan areas (who voted overwhelmingly 'yes'), but all the fishing communities voted overwhelmingly 'no' because it's a massive industry that they don't want to lose control. Switzerland doesn't join for all sorts of complex issues like their historic neutrality and the way their democracy works.

Your last comment about Canada being in a North American trade block, the UK being in Europe, and Australia and New Zealand being an Asian trade block is just pure fantasy. All 3 blocks are destined to fail because the countries that are in them are all completely different with different standards of living and different levels of development. What other countries in Asia measure up to Australia and New Zealand?

...you would see everybody in Asia move to Australia or New Zealand- it is impossible

No, I'm not suggesting open borders immigration with Asia. You are confusing an ordinary trade agreement with free movement. The two can be kept seperate. In terms of trade, focusing Australian industrial standards on their biggest customers in Asia is most important. Let's take a practical example like livestock agriculture. Why would Australia, Canada and the UK want to align their standards when the cattle in each country are different breeds, the environment is completely different, the diseases and disease prevention measures will all be different? You can look at every industry and realise that integration on this level would be silly. it makes more sense for Australia to align itself with Chinese or Japanese industrial standards.

Do you really think Mexico will have open borders with both the added states and Canada?

Not in the near future, but again I think you are confusing free movement/open borders with trade agreements. It makes perfect sense for Canada to align itself with Mexico on environmental and workplace safety standards for example. That way Canadian companies will not be as tempted to relocate factories in order to take advantage if a lax regulations which would more than make up for any tariffs Canada might be able to impose on Mexican goods.

you talked about helping the poor countries in the EU like Romania and Bulgaria. Well if that’s the case and they’re not there to mooch off the EU, why don’t they join the euro? Why are countries like Poland and Bulgaria remaining within the economic zone but not taking the currency?

Currently any country which joins the EU must commit to accepting the Euro. I believe Romania, Bulgaria and Poland all began accession talks before this rule went into effect so they are free to remain outside or join.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Currently any country which joins the EU must commit to accepting the Euro. I believe Romania, Bulgaria and Poland all began accession talks before this rule went into effect so they are free to remain outside or join.

Regardless of why, the fact remains that there are member states which continue using their own currencies as a trading advantage against the Euro. That is not fair.

1.   In accordance with Article 3b, competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States.

Decisions over the immigration of non-EU citizens is not a competency that has ever been conferred on the EU, it remains with the member state. This is why Britain is legally allowed to limit the immigration of non-EU spouses into the UK if the other spouse doesn't meet a minimum earnings threshold, while at the other end of the spectrum a country like France gives non-EU spouses automatic French citizenship from day one. It's why Germany was allowed to invite the refugees, while Austria was allowed to unilaterally put a daily cap on asylum seekers they would accept. Britain has total control over non-EU immigration policy even if it is fully in the EU.

parliamentary sovereignty has been eroded by the primacy of EU law. The supremacy of Community law implies that in cases of conflict, EU law takes precedence over national law and must be applied.

http://www.aalep.eu/eu-and-member-states-sovereignty

QMV is the most common method of decision-making, used in all but the most sensitive issues.

Issues which are decided on by QMV are also voted on by the European Parliament. This means that the council and parliament act together in co-decision.

Under QMV, each member state is given a certain number of votes in the council, weighted according to its size and population. For example, Germany, the EU's largest state, has 10 votes, while Portugal has five and Finland three.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/europe/euro-glossary/1054052.stm

Areas subject to QMV

Initiatives of the High Representative for Foreign Affairs

Administrative co-operation

Asylum

Border controls

Citizens’ initiative regulations

Civil protection

Committee of the Regions

Common defence policy (any move towards achieving a common defence policy is by unanimity. QMV can be used only to establish ‘structured cooperation’ in defence, whereby a group of like-minded Member States choose to cooperate in a defence-related matter. If a Member State does not want to participate, it does not have to).

Crime prevention incentives

Criminal judicial co-operation

Criminal law

Culture (QMV is used for incentive measures only)

Diplomatic & Consular protection

Economic & Social Committee

Emergency international aid

Energy

EU budget

European Central Bank

European Court of Justice (QMV is used only to amend the Court Statute)

Europol

Eurozone external representation

Foreign Affairs High Representative election

Freedom of movement for workers (there is an ‘emergency brake’, which means that if a Member State objects to a proposal on grounds of important national concerns, the decision is taken by unanimity).

Freedom to establish a business

Freedom, security, justice, co-operation & evaluation

Funding the Common Foreign & Security Policy (only urgent start-up funds for emergency situations are subject to QMV.)

General economic interest services

Humanitarian aid

Immigration

http://www.aalep.eu/eu-and-member-states-sovereignty

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

However, M3M3M3 you are 100% correct about the status of Switzerland and Norway. I'm sorry, and I stand corrected. Thank you. This maybe why many brexiters were campaigning on a Swiss or Norse style agreement with the EU. One way to approach this would be for the EU to say to the UK this: so how about we put you in the same exact status as Norway, and see what the Uk says?

In terms of CANZUK free movement, perhaps the best example to use is the Common Travel Area (CTA) between the UK and Ireland. This is an agreement that allows the Irish to work in the UK and vice versa. It has nothing to do with the European Union. Both countries have confirmed that this will continue even after Brexit.

The CTA was in effect before either nation signed up to the EU. In addition to that, the CTA continuing was a DEMAND by the EU to the UK, not the other way around.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There is no reason why Ireland couldn't sign a similar CTA with another non-EU country like Canada or Australia.

Please take a look at

http://www.aalep.eu/eu-and-member-states-sovereignty

explains it in painful detail.

Britain could do the same even if it remains fully in the EU. If someone tells you otherwise, do not believe them. If the part of CANZUK that excites you most is free movement,

It does.

then please realise that it can happen today. Those who are insisting on a trade agreement to accompany free movement are just slowing you down.

Where do we have freedom of movement without free trade? The opposite is correct, as in NAFTA and TPP, but I have never heard of countries opening up their borders without free trade.

There are so many problems and criticisms against the free trade agreement aspect, but almost none against free movement.

Actually there are a lot in the UK against the free movement including east european countries in the EU but not the Euro taking advantage of both the pound and the Euro strength.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No, I'm not suggesting open borders immigration with Asia. You are confusing an ordinary trade agreement with free movement.

Not in the near future, but again I think you are confusing free movement/open borders with trade agreements.

That wasn't your original post...

True, but I think it's far more realistic for the UK to be in the EU trade block, Canada to be in the North American trading bloc and Aus/NZ to be in an Asia Pacific trading bloc.

A trade bloc is VERY different from a trade agreement.

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M3M3M3

Look- I'm not a brexiter. I'm a realist. I wasn't happy with Brexit anymore than you are. But where we differ is I see a way where Brexit can be turned into a positive through CANZUK instead of criticizing the british people about their democratically made decision. We have to respect that that is the what the UK people chose. How do we move forward from that? We create a CANZUK bloc, form very close ties with our EU friends, with whom we share many values, and move forward from there.

Maybe in the near future we can see CANZUK merge with the EU.

I'm certainly not against that.

By the way, I want to thank you for being a gentleman, and disagreeing with me without personal attacks like so many others do. I also would like to thank you for taking the time out to post links for me to read (which I do) unlike 99% of the people who tend to disagree with me. Looking forward to your reply. I learn alot from you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Aly Rustom, what you are saying it's not technically wrong, but have you been in Europe recently? The sentiment towards this Union it's at the lowest level ever. Now, if the UK leave and manage to stay in the free market.... i can tell you 4/5 members who are not going to be happy at all. Some big names among them. It could easily be the end of the EU. So in my opinion the EU will try to punish UK as hard as possible.

Andy, I agree with you.

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In the U.K. the cars that everybody aspires to are not Japanese but German!

All the big German names have conspicuous large showrooms along major roads.

Sneering, sarcastic politicians trying to score brownie points do not reflect economic realities.....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

 i can tell you 4/5 members who are not going to be happy at all. yep pee off all the EU members to please the one party crasher, nope Im guessing the EU will prevail and itll cost the UK dearly in terms of loss of manufacturing to the EU, the sharks are circling LOL

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Anyway, the CANZUK proposal is taking off, and if the UK is a part of that, EVERYONE, EU, JAPAN, US, EVERYONE will coming knocking. 60% of UK exprts go to the EU, Australia NZ, Canada wont even come close to filling the hole thatll be left over when the EU tariffs hit the UK.

remember those tarrifs go BOTH ways and we still carry a trade surplus with most of the countries.

dont expect trump do buy UK exports without massive imports from America. The Brexiteers can paint it as rosy as they like,

There is no such thing as a Brexiter or a Remainer. The election already happened- That ship has sailed. And I was on the remain ship. Now what we have are REALISTS and WHINERS. Those that have accepted brexit and want to make the best of it and those who just want whine and badmouth the people there.

the truth is the EU sharks are circling whatll be left of UK

Let them circle all they want. That's all they can do.

yep pee off all the EU members to please the one party crasher, nope Im guessing the EU will prevail and itll cost the UK dearly

Yeah everyone also predicted a recession in the UK. The fact is, its been over a year and there has been no recession.

Remember that the UK has the world's sixth-largest economy by nominal GDP and ninth-largest economy by purchasing power parity. It'll do just fine.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

the sharks are circling LOL

Australia Will Pursue One-On-One Trade Deal With UK

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/01/australia-pursue-trade-uk.html

New Zealand Government Opens Door For CANZUK Trade & Migration Deal

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/11/new-zealand-government-opens-door-for-canzuk-trade-migration-deal.html

CANZUK Trade Deals “A Priority” For The UK Post-Brexit

The United Kingdom expects to have draft free trade agreements ready for execution long before it reaches the end of its Brexit transitional period, with Canada, Australia and New Zealand being priority counterparts for the British government.

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2017/10/canzuk-trade-deals-priority.html

So I say, let the sharks circle til they tire out! LOL

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Aly Rustom

You pasted the link showing that immigration is one of the issues where qualified majority voting applies. Yes, the EU is involved in some immigration related programs and that's why it appears on the list, but immigration policy as whole is not an area where the EU is free to pass the sorts of laws which would take precendence over national immigration law. There's a complicated hierarchy of subjects where the EU has exclusive competence, shared competece, or voluntary competence etc,. One of the EU immigration programs is the Blue Card (like the US green card) which allows people who have been accepted as high skilled immigrants in one EU country to easily move to another without going through the entire immigration process again. It's a voluntary program and the UK has actually refused to participate, which is their right. The countries which have agreed to participate will be subject to QMV if it's every necessary to vote on a change to the program.

Refugees are on the list because the EU is responsible for the Dublin Agreement, but it's still up to each country to set their own guidelines and decide who they accept as a refugee. The bottom line is that, as I said, non-EU immigration is left entirely (or let's say almost entirely) up to the member states and this is clearly evidenced by the fact that they all have wildly different immigration policies.

Here is the list of topics the EU is allowed to legislate on. The Exclusive column are things only the EU is allowed to regulate. The Shared column are things the member states regulate on unless the EU decides to step in. The others are programs that the member states voluntarily agree to join. You'll notice that immigration doesn't appear anywhere. Programs such as the Blue Card likely fall under 'administrative cooperation'.

http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/competences/faq#q1

This maybe why many brexiters were campaigning on a Swiss or Norse style agreement with the EU. One way to approach this would be for the EU to say to the UK this: so how about we put you in the same exact status as Norway, and see what the Uk says?

EFTA was definetly a possiblity and I'd accept that. But I don't think the hard Brexiters would be satisfied. It's probably the worst outcome for those who were interested in sovereignty and taking back control. You have to pay membership fees, you accept free movement, you accept almost all the EU regulations but you have zero say in setting the rules.

The CTA was in effect before either nation signed up to the EU. In addition to that, the CTA continuing was a DEMAND by the EU to the UK, not the other way around.

The CTA was in place before the UK and Ireland joined the EU but that has no effect on its acceptability to the EU. It's a private bilateral agreement between the UK and Ireland which falls completely outside of any of the EU competences. On the second point where you say the EU is demanding the contiuation of the CTA, this is not the case. What the EU is demanding is that the UK, Ireland and the EU agree an additional CTA-style agreement specifically on the border in Northern Ireland (because the EU is also a party to the Good Friday agreement). This will be in addition to the CTA which has no EU involvement. Is that what you might be thinking of?

Where do we have freedom of movement without free trade? The opposite is correct, as in NAFTA and TPP, but I have never heard of countries opening up their borders without free trade.

Thats a good point. The concept of free movement between countries is relatively new and the EU is really a pioneer when it comes to trying it on a massive and unrestricted scale. However, I do have one example to meet your challenge (but you might object): The Working Holiday Visa. OK, it's not unlimited free movement for everyone, but it is free movement for young people between the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ (and a few others) for a limited time. I think the UK is 2 years and under 30? Australia is one year for under 30s but they will soon amend the law to increase this to 35). I think it would be much more realistic to lobby these governments to increase (or eliminate) the age limit and set the maximum visa length for Commonwealth citizens to 5 years which would be enough to apply for citizenship at the end. (Also, the working holiday is another example of how the UK has had total control over non-EU immigration).

Look- I'm not a brexiter. I'm a realist. I wasn't happy with Brexit anymore than you are. But where we differ is I see a way where Brexit can be turned into a positive through CANZUK instead of criticizing the british people about their democratically made decision. We have to respect that that is the what the UK people chose. How do we move forward from that? We create a CANZUK bloc, form very close ties with our EU friends, with whom we share many values, and move forward from there.

Maybe in the near future we can see CANZUK merge with the EU.

Fair enough. I totally understand and I know you were against Brexit. It's definetly good to put all the ideas on the table. As I said, I think free movement would be great (although we previously discussed why I think the UK might oppose it due to brain drain) but maybe starting off small and trying to expand the working holiday would be more achievable? The trade aspect of CANZUK is very speculative and vulnerable to being discredited by economists. It would be a shame if the trade side of CANZUK sunk and took the free movement idea down with it. I think these two ideas should be seperated so they can be evaluated individually on their own merits rather than being bundled. I'm not a marketing expert but I think many people seem to have a visceral negative reaction to anything that even remotely suggests that we might be able to revive the British Empire. I know that's not what CANZUK is about but that's the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about trade with the commonwealth. I think simply saying something like this would be far more appealing to students, parents, companies, and basically everyone: 'After Brexit, Britain really needs to ensure that young people continue to have as many opportunites as possible and that we continue to attract global talent to Britain. Therefore we should, at the very least, expand free movement with some of our closest friends like Canada and Australia who already live and work in our country through programs like the working holiday visa'. Nobody can poke holes in this and nobody in their right mind would vote it down.

Also thanks for the kind words Aly, but you are far more of a gentleman than me! I always enjoy exchanging ideas with you and learning new things even if we disagree. It's rare to find someone on the internet who is genuinely interested in the truth and open to new ideas and opinions, so it's always a pleasure to chat with you. Take care and enjoy your weekend.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

EFTA was definetly a possiblity and I'd accept that. But I don't think the hard Brexiters would be satisfied.

Don’t worry about the hard Brexiters. They are a minority at this stage.

It's probably the worst outcome for those who were interested in sovereignty and taking back control. You have to pay membership fees, you accept free movement, you accept almost all the EU regulations but you have zero say in setting the rules.

It’s funny though don’t you think? Because that was what they were advocating during the campaign.

The CTA was in place before the UK and Ireland joined the EU but that has no effect on its acceptability to the EU. It's a private bilateral agreement between the UK and Ireland which falls completely outside of any of the EU competences.

True but I’m pretty sure it was an issue and brought up during the negotiations for Britain’s entry into the ECC.

On the second point where you say the EU is demanding the contiuation of the CTA, this is not the case. What the EU is demanding is that the UK, Ireland and the EU agree an additional CTA-style agreement specifically on the border in Northern Ireland (because the EU is also a party to the Good Friday agreement). This will be in addition to the CTA which has no EU involvement. Is that what you might be thinking of?

Yes that is what I had in mind. Thanks for setting me straight. You taught me something new again. Thank you.

Thats a good point. The concept of free movement between countries is relatively new and the EU is really a pioneer when it comes to trying it on a massive and unrestricted scale. However, I do have one example to meet your challenge (but you might object): The Working Holiday Visa. OK, it's not unlimited free movement for everyone, but it is free movement for young people between the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ (and a few others) for a limited time. I think the UK is 2 years and under 30? Australia is one year for under 30s but they will soon amend the law to increase this to 35).

You are correct. Japan is also part of this agreement. My wife used it for a one year working holiday visa in Australia before we met.

I think it would be much more realistic to lobby these governments to increase (or eliminate) the age limit and set the maximum visa length for Commonwealth citizens to 5 years which would be enough to apply for citizenship at the end. (Also, the working holiday is another example of how the UK has had total control over non-EU immigration).

I think, my friend, we’re gonna have to disagree here. Again I hate to keep bringing it up but if you look at the websites for Canzuk It’s already in the works. I for one really do want to see this agreement happen. And I would not be against merging the two blocs together. I think it would make Europe and the Commonwealth the most powerful entity on the planet; even shadowing the United States.

Look- I'm not a brexiter. I'm a realist. I wasn't happy with Brexit anymore than you are. But where we differ is I see a way where Brexit can be turned into a positive through CANZUK instead of criticizing the british people about their democratically made decision. We have to respect that that is the what the UK people chose. How do we move forward from that? We create a CANZUK bloc, form very close ties with our EU friends, with whom we share many values, and move forward from there.

Maybe in the near future we can see CANZUK merge with the EU.

Fair enough. I totally understand and I know you were against Brexit. It's definetly good to put all the ideas on the table. As I said, I think free movement would be great (although we previously discussed why I think the UK might oppose it due to brain drain) but maybe starting off small and trying to expand the working holiday would be more achievable? The trade aspect of CANZUK is very speculative and vulnerable to being discredited by economists. It would be a shame if the trade side of CANZUK sunk and took the free movement idea down with it. I think these two ideas should be seperated so they can be evaluated individually on their own merits rather than being bundled. I'm not a marketing expert but I think many people seem to have a visceral negative reaction to anything that even remotely suggests that we might be able to revive the British Empire. I know that's not what CANZUK is about but that's the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about trade with the commonwealth. I think simply saying something like this would be far more appealing to students, parents, companies, and basically everyone: 'After Brexit, Britain really needs to ensure that young people continue to have as many opportunites as possible and that we continue to attract global talent to Britain. Therefore we should, at the very least, expand free movement with some of our closest friends like Canada and Australia who already live and work in our country through programs like the working holiday visa'. Nobody can poke holes in this and nobody in their right mind would vote it down.

All excellent points. And I can say that I agree with almost everything you said.

Also thanks for the kind words Aly, but you are far more of a gentleman than me!

Now that my friend is a hard sell. I snapped a little bit more at you but you’ve kept your comments and composure civil, and I feel bad about some of the things I said to you before.

I always enjoy exchanging ideas with you and learning new things even if we disagree. It's rare to find someone on the internet who is genuinely interested in the truth and open to new ideas and opinions, so it's always a pleasure to chat with you.

The feeling is very mutual my friend.

Take care and enjoy your weekend.

Drink a beer for me, and I’ll do the same.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Maybe Brexit is going to be good for the UK. A wake up call perhaps, no longer to be lambasted as a Lazy Country by it's own Politicians, but as a place of Innovation, Creativity, Art & once again Culture - of which Scotland has a lot to contribute there. To promote Creativity, the Government really needs to encourage startups better, and rather than being a Nation of Shopkeepers, to become a Nation of Startups.... should be the new slogan for the UK, the place to go, when you want to create something new and forge a business for the Future.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is now time to realize that UK is not a democraty, not really a monarchy, and not anymore a pacific country.

When you leave Europe after changing its foundations, forcing them to move forward your nature, and when it done, abandoning it because of hate and racism, you are a dangerous country to be.

UK leave Europe to make money through agressive means both real and diplomatic, otherwise it will lose his rank and right to stay on UN council. He want to go back to his old colon ways - history make it romantic to easy diplomacy but reality was very far from it.

Trump was embarassed in public because of its loyalty to UK. He has now realize that UK was not like a rusty america but the ex-leader of the dreamy colons of America that was not nice or easy or polite to deal with. It is interesting to see the fast impact on Japan diplomacy weel.

You have to remember, and really understand, that UK is a country for nobles that believe in one god only, make war for him, and believe everything that don't believe in his God is below UK - England to be precise.

It is time to play hard.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CANZUK population 126, 377,465

A pointless bit of data. It's merely the combined actual population of four actual countries.

Calling it the "CANZUK population" is arbitrary: CANZUK doesn't exist. Australia, New Zealand, and Canada aren't clamouring for it. Just as importantly, nor is Britain.

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Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are already in trade with each other and unlikely there will be a sort of CANZUK mini market once Britain leaves the EU. The bigger markets are with India and China.

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Interesting that governments "act" and put on a "show" on behalf of their own countries economic interests representing primarily financial interests...

Brexit was NOT only economic as it was a need for the people of Britain to divest itself from the "control" of those financial powers running the UE through their currency and banking structures which include the IMF. When an economic union starts to dictate and today "enforce" social, cultural, religious, and moral as well as legal and political orientation of its members, it is nothing more than a form of "dictatorship" run by those that control the money.

So the problem is not just "profit" for those that are doing business with and within Britain.

The process of Brexit by its nature takes time and all those involved with Britain as with Japan will be affected. All nations want to continue to gain some kind of a "benefit" not necessarily profit for their own national interests. So for Japan to express their concern is obvious.

However, it is not for any country to "demand" any particular result unless it is willing to either participate or assist in improving the situation along with in this case Britain and it's Brexit problem. A major problem since Japan must also deal with EU which also faces a multitude of untouchable problems which can only be resolved by the EU members themselves.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is nothing bigoted in promoting "Anglosphere" in whatever form it may take, CANZUK, or something more expansive, especially when one considers that both Sinosphere and Russosphere are enlarging their own spheres of influence.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ Aly Rustom

One of the best discussions I've seen so far on this site with a main role by you so thank you for that.

Ofcourse, I'm aware that you and many of your compatriots have the British Empire in your genes and dream about CANZUK and what more you're may be able to accomplish within the Commonwealth.

But as a 'realistic' former remainer you know deep in your hearth that the EU is in charge and not the UK.

On the continent we see Theresa May begging Angela Merkel for 'make us an offer' as the best UK laughing stock since Monty Phyton.

You can come of figures of how wealthy the UK is, the 6th economy etc etc. but that's the current situation and, as you know, the UK is still part of the EU. Your negotiators are paid by the EU and continental EU workers still pick fruits, wipe the streets and clean UK butts.

The only figure I saw this morning is the GBP at 0.88 eurocent with the equivalence in sight.

This morning I was also thinking about buying a new pair of Crockett & Jones, so hard or soft Brexit, there will always be trade, dear Britons :)

As a continental EU citizen you should always see the bright sight: less British low life hitting the streets of continental hotspots as result of effective border control and an inflated currency.

Back to the original topic:

...Japan will come crawling back on its hands and knees and will be sent to the back of the line when it comes to trade negotiations...

As with the EU, the UK is not in charge hereend the Brits are the one's who have to show 'bottom up' like they do with the Chinese.

Like others I see some bigotry in this post. Possible the result of living too long in a non-white environment :)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No EU country or any other, will pass up the chance to trade with a nation of sixty-five million plus!

i know I wouldn't .....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Calling it the "CANZUK population" is arbitrary: CANZUK doesn't exist.

It will. Remember the EU never existed and was met with tremendous skepticism when it switched from the EEC to EU. If the EU can happen so can Canzuk.

Australia, New Zealand, and Canada aren't clamouring for it. Just as importantly, nor is Britain.

Actually they are. It is being discussed on some VERY high levels of parliament and being endorsed by PMs and former PMs. If you don't believe this just check out their site which I have posted links to Countless times. In addition to that, when polled, 84% of NZ, 75\% of Canadians, 70% of OZ, and 64% of UK, responded positively. There is interest. Remember the canzuk movement started after the brexit vote. very few people know about it, but still they have managed in such a short time to garner over a quarter of a million signatures, and have their proposal discussed at high levels of government. That's quite a feat in such a short period of time. And while it doesn't mean much right now, it is certainly encouraging.

> One of the best discussions I've seen so far on this site with a main role by you so thank you for that.

Thank you for the kind words.

Ofcourse, I'm aware that you and many of your compatriots have the British Empire in your genes and dream about CANZUK and what more you're may be able to accomplish within the Commonwealth.

Well, I wouldn't say I have the British Empire in my genes. My father was from Syria.

As for the commonwealth, I don't think that is what CANZUK is reviving. Just a union between these 4 countries.

But as a 'realistic' former remainer you know deep in your hearth that the EU is in charge and not the UK.

I think the EU is trying to bully the UK in the same way as the US is trying to bully Canada with NAFTA, which makes it all the more important that canzuk happens so that we don't get bullied.

As with the EU, the UK is not in charge hereend the Brits are the one's who have to show 'bottom up' like they do with the Chinese.

No. It is the Japanese that can leave if they want to. But remember this, if they do leave, they will be pulling out of the 6th largest economy in the world. I don't think they'll do that.

Like others I see some bigotry in this post. Possible the result of living too long in a non-white environment

A bit of a cheap shot, but ok. No it is not bigotry. My wife and son are japanese. I was responding to the arrogance of the Japanese industry, and I see them as backstabbers that are trying to kick the UK while its down. I despise tactics like that.

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Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are already in trade with each other and unlikely there will be a sort of CANZUK mini market once Britain leaves the EU. The bigger markets are with India and China.

What they are talking about is expanding the trans tasman agreement to include Canada and the UK. There already is a FTA with open borders between OZ and NZ. They are talking about expanding that to include Canada and the UK. That's all right now.

Then maybe, after that, we will begin to see a Canzuk union. And having canzuk doesn't mean that they can't and won't continue to develope trade with China and India. If anything, Canzuk would give these countries more bargaining power.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Aly Rustom

Thanks for revealing your cosmopolitan background.

No. It is the Japanese that can leave if they want to. But remember this, if they do leave, they will be pulling out of the 6th largest economy in the world. I don't think they'll do that.

Any MNC with a manufacturing plant making losses caused by new barriers will consider

an alternative site without those barriers. Don't underestimate the French influence on any decision taken about Nissan's Sunderland plant. Imagine where they may go.

Nobody will leave the UK for doing business and making money if only for the spenders in Londongrad :)

I was responding to the arrogance of the Japanese industry, and I see them as backstabbers that are trying to kick the UK while its down. I despise tactics like that.

Fair enough. But 'trying to kick the UK while its down' is a bit contradictional to what you stated in your posts above about the UK isn't it? :)

Have a nice week.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Any MNC with a manufacturing plant making losses caused by new barriers will consider an alternative site without those barriers.

Yes, but consider the great expense of moving PLUS the lack of access. I don't see it happening.

Nobody will leave the UK for doing business and making money if only for the spenders in Londongrad :)

I don't think they'll leave at all. This is just hot air believe me

Fair enough. But 'trying to kick the UK while its down' is a bit contradictional to what you stated in your posts above about the UK isn't it?

I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Aly Rustom

You wrote that the UK is 'doing fine' and yes the UK economy is still the fastest grower in the EU with Germany, so 'while its down' is a bit off topic. Or are you referring to Mrs May's team? ;)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You wrote that the UK is 'doing fine'

I said the UK will be just fine. I meant in the long run. Also, kicking the UK when its down means when it is in a vulnerable position with the Brexit talks with the EU.

Fact: the UK is not in a recession.

and yes the UK economy is still the fastest grower in the EU with Germany,

I NEVER said that. What I said was that the UK was the second LARGEST economy in Europe after Germany, (although France MIGHT barely surpass it). I never said anything about growth rate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Aly Rustom

Semantics, Aly: " Your wrote the the UK is 'doing fine' or better ' will be just fine'

.....and yes....

means that I'm replying that the UK is ranking among the fastest growers ...
0 ( +0 / -0 )

Semantics, Aly: "

Not semantics. Pure english.

Your wrote the the UK is 'doing fine' or better ' will be just fine'

I wrote that the UK will be just fine, and it will.

But let me say this: the UK is also doing fine NOW. Case in point: the UK is not in a recession.

.....and yes....

means that I'm replying that the UK is ranking among the fastest growers ...

Again: HERE is what I said about the UK. The bottom is MY Quote. Please read it carefully.

Remember that the UK has the world's sixth-largest economy by nominal GDP and ninth-largest economy by purchasing power parity. It'll do just fine.

Now about kicking a country when its down means that the UK is having a hard time, Like Canada, is with its abusive partner. For the Japanese to say what they did in this article is like kicking a friend when they are down, or rather, siding with the bully. I hope I've made my self clear.

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