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© KYODOJapanese gov't urged by lawmakers to take action against S Korea
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showchinmono
As relatively neutral Nikkei showed, public opinion also supporting you to take stronger measure. Go for it!
Akie
When brain doesn't work, emotion takes over.
SJ
Opinion of Japanese legal experts on the verdict of S. Korea Supreme court regarding forced wartime labor:
http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html (Enlgish)
http://justice.skr.jp/statement.html (Japanese)
It is ironical that despite the spread of the internet and all cutting-edge communication technology, it becomes easier for political leaders to brainwash and instigate the people, especially in Japan.
Cricky
Nippon Kaigi urges taking action, I would suggest most people really don't care. Getting their premium cup noodles, and Premiun Friday is more of a concern.
AlexBecu
When S. Korea behaves and acts the way it has for the last several decades you become S. Korea fatigue.
No matter what Japan has done to improve relations, to apologize for the past, to pay compensation, help build S. Korea and develop its economy and technology, willing to help and support if another war started between North and South...All of that and what we get in return is more hate and Anti-Japan sentiment at every corner, going back on agreements to settle the past, our Island taken by force, Sea of Japan name trying to change, aggressive behavior by their ships with radar lock on than trying to blame Japan for the incident.
Should have acted much sooner!
Nicolás Palacios
Korea will never be happy, unfortunately. No matter the amount of redress or whether the Emperor himself apologized to each and every individual Korean. The truth of the matter is that this sense of victimhood is firmly etched into the national character and mythology as to be inseparable. To hate Japan has become a kind of cultural tradition there, a ritual that proclaims one’s Korean-ness.
Abe and the LDP will likely do nothing again except issue tepid warnings and so on. Meanwhile, the ROK and its global diaspora aggressively market their grievances to the gullible and opportunistic. Japan should take extreme measure, therefore, and simply cease the pretense of diplomatic relations with the ROK and sever them outright, or at least putting them on hold until a more reasonable government takes hold. (An unlikely possibility in the near future.)
Garthgoyle
Man, if only Japan and South Korea put bs to the side and acted as allies. They're both free countries and could... SHOULD stand up to the bullie and dictators China and North Korea.
TrevorPeace
@Nicolas, I have to agree. I've watched this chit-for-chat for too long. If I was Abe, I would demonstrate my spine's commitment to eliminating suck tomfoolery with the recall of my government's ambassador (and all staff) to South Korea. And let the US get involved. Time for some real, down and dirty geopolitics. But such a move would encourage Russian participation, and Trump's a coward where that scenario comes to mind. Just a Canadian point of view, I might add.
William77
In this case I tend to agree with the lawmakers,it is time to get a stronger instance against South Korea,otherwhise they will become more bossy and insistent.
No matter what Japan will do or say, or compensate (again and again)
They will eventually bring all this crap back.
South Korea is not a reliable partner and it’s becoming a joke in the face of the international community.
Chamkun
South Korea must respect the basic treaty between Japan and korea in 1965
NihonRyu
@SJ “It is ironical that despite the spread of the internet and all cutting-edge communication technology, it becomes easier for political leaders to brainwash and instigate the people, especially in Japan.”
I think it’s the other way around that it’s Koreans who are brainwashed by their political leaders and false testimonies and agendas by various politically motivated groups. A thorough research on the comfort woman issue as well as japan’s Annexation of Korea during WW2 is much more complicated than the typical vitriol spewed and championed in South Korea.
Samit Basu
This is not what Fire-Control Radar, the radar that does so called "Lock-On", does.
The FCS target illumination radar illuminates the target with a continuous intense focused radar beam, so that the seeker on the missile can see the reflected radar beam off the target and follow it. It is just like focusing on a searchlight beam focusing an tracking a target, so that a sniper can take out the target in human visual terms.
Measuring the direction and the distance of an object is what a search radar does, and no one calls this kind of radar usage a "Lock-On".
@William77
There is no retaliatory measure that Japan can take without incurring a bigger cost on Japan's side. That's Japan's dilemma and Japan will have to live with this new reality.
Japan is just like China in this relationship. There is nothing China can do to hurt the US without hurting itself even more, and there is nothing Japan can do to hurt Korea without hurting itself even more.
Cricky
Seems this is a hot button for right wingers, their thinking is Korea is/ should be subservient to Japan's wishes. And this is across a raft of issues. Little bit of news Japan is no better no lower than anybody else. It's attitude definatly lower than its neighbors.
Samit Basu
@Cricky
This is indeed what Japanese conservative policy makers are thinking.
Their mindset is fixed in the 20th century when Japan was only second to the US in economic power, and refuses to face the reality of the 21st century where both China and Korea are militarily stronger to Japan.
AlexBecu
@Samit Basu
You Koreans always stuck in the 20th century instead of the present and future. Japan has tried to have better relations with your Korea and you treat Japan like a punching bag with no retaliation or consequences in return. Your Korea got spoiled for the last several decades and I don't blame you being upset if Japan stands up for itself.
Go ahead and escalate the situation, take Japanese assets in Korea and we will do the same in Japan. We will treat Korea the same way they treat Japan in return.
Nicolás Palacios
@Cricky
By that same token, Korea is no better than anyone else. But you would never guess from the pervasiveness of Korean nationalists to dictate terms to their own government, who in their ugly rhetoric and single-minded belief in the superiority of all things Korean give the uyoku dantai more than a run for their money.
@Samit Basu
China, sure. But your estimation of the ROK’s military strength is grossly exaggerated. Numerous rankings place Japan well within the top 10 and Korea out of its reach. But here is one you can read for yourself.
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-ranked-2018-2
jeancolmar
The headline is somewhat misleading. Japan's ambassador to South Korea, Yasumasa Nagamine, has urged for reasoned dialogue with South Korea. Nevertheless, "a chorus of hawkish requests came from lawmakers of the ruling party, with one attendee saying, "What the Japanese public wants are swift countermeasures. The government needs to show its resolute stance by recalling Mr Nagamine." I am not sure what a "chorus" actually represents within a legislative body. My naive intuition tells me that a number of hotheads want to do something reckless, but do not know what that something is, except recall the reasonable Mr. Nagamine.
Furthermore, where does this "chorus" member get the idea "the public wants swift countermeasures"? Where is the visceral evidence?
In my view it would be an error to to recall Mr. Nagamine and to take action based on jingoistic emotion.
Again, the matter of contention is a civil case and not subject to the 1965 decree, which ought to scrapped any.
talaraedokko
Let’s see which of these two countries proves to be the better one? Who will pull the trigger first? I worry about the giant in the north and the one to the left. They are the first vultures looking for scraps.
Hiro Ueda
SK already declared war on Japan by locking on an unarmed surveillance plane. Japan is not in the fault here. Japan hating SK needs to make the appropriate measure to ensure this doesn't happen again and to issue a formal apology. Otherwise, Japan needs to take all measures to protect itself from these aggressor.
Samit Basu
@Nicolas Palacios
A simple but strikingly true fact.
The ROK chief of staff has the wartime command of US forces Korea after the agreed OPCON transfer. Nowhere else on earth a foreign military has the wartime command of US troops with the possible exception of NATO, but the NATO's supreme commander is always a US general.
So why did the US agree to hand over the wartime command of US troops to Korea? This fact alone explains what kind of a military the ROK really has, for the US would never agree to hand over the wartime command of US troops to Japan. Why? Japan is not capable of commanding the US troops into war.
Ganbare Japan!
Economic sanctions and visa restrictions are called for agsinst SK. Japanese government should urge against non-vital travel to SK, as well as refraining from buying SK products, foods, going to Korean resturants etc. Japan is NOT at fault here.
Samit Basu
@Ganbare Japan
1.Economic sanctions don't work against Korea. Japan runs a trade surplus so Korea can sanction Japan, not the other way aroudn.
2.Koreans make up 25% of tourists in Japan, a visa restriction means Japan's tourism industry goes down by 25% overnight and Abe san bet on tourism industry to make up for the decline in manufacturing sector.
Hello Kitty 321
Why does everybody give SJ the thumbs down simply for presenting a link to the opinion of Japanese legal experts on the subject? Did they even bother to read the experts views or were they just reacting against what they deemed to be anti-Japanese bias?
smithinjapan
Yes! Please do take action! Bring more attention to the fact that not only does Japan want the word to shut up about its atrocities, and bring more light to the atrocities themselves, but also bring to light the fact that Japan wants to take international action against a domestic court ruling that its companies refuse to follow. Japan will CERTAINLY look good on the world stage!
Hello Kitty 321
@ Samit Basu
So you find no problem with the fact that for the last 65 years the U.S. had command over Korean forces in Korea in time of war?
showchinmono
It is NOW or never chance to completely abolish Special permanent residency rights, or at least, exclude ethnic Korean from the rights. Ship out all Korean criminals in prison now fed by Japanese Taxpayers. Deprive all Korean lawyers of their legal licence, Issue new law to restrict Korean personnel within Japan's public and quasi-public organization including municipalities, TV companies. Shut all the heavy Korean influence out of Japanese society. In short, treat Koreans no better than any other foreign residents and freeze naturalization exam process for ethnic Koreans.
None of these goes against 1965 Treaty or any Int'l agreements with S.K.
Nicolás Palacios
@Samir Basu
My understanding is that they would fight under separate and independent commands during wartime.
So if the ROK has this might foreign military contingent under their thumb, why are their leftists perpetually pushing for them to be sent away? And would not OPCON result in a diminution of the US presence? Even if the ROK were to be able to wield command of a significant portion of the US military, so what? I am struggling to think why this is anything to crow about. What are you expecting? That the ROK and US would somehow smite your ethnic/national rivals? Keep dreaming.
Nicolás Palacios
Considering that the ROK’s economy is sliding, a matter compounded by a birthrate somehow even lower than Japan’s, I think they have more pressing matters to attend to than hypothetical economic sanctions at this moment.
AgentX
So, this hawkish lawmaker wants the Ambassador removed because the Ambassador is recommending a diplomatic approach to the situation?
Time to drop the 'peaceful nation' moniker, Japan...
I totally agree with Smith's comment. Bring it on and watch egg collect face.
Samit Basu
@Nicolas Palacios
You understood it wrong.
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/414407-troubling-signs-in-us-south-korea-alliance
Not while Osan is the closest US air base to Beijing.
The US would have never agreed to hand over the command of its own troops to Korea unless the Pentagon thought the Koreans were competent enough to do so.
So Japan would be going to war against a country capable of commanding US troops in wartime. Japan doesn't stand a chance if the US decided to sit out and not intervene.
showchinmono
Korean main exporting goods are too heavily relying upon Japanese core materials & parts. It's not just the matter of trade deficit & surplus. Japan can replace anything imported from Korea, not to mention Kimuchi, Shin-Ramen. S.K cannot, at least for foreseeable future. The principle of relative advantage exists there.
SJ
@NihonRyu
How can brainwashed S. Koreans topple the political regime twice since 1948? Japan has no history of toppling their regime, as they have been so much obedient, easily manipulated and instigated by their leaders, nowadays Japanese younger generations are far more obedient. This is a tradition of Japan as an insular country. During the WWII, the individual sacrifice en masse like kamikaze for a state is only possible with religious belief and brainwash in the world such as Al-Qaeda and christian martyr. Japan is an exception. They don't need a religion per se.
Regarding comfort women, I just excerpt two comments two comments from Japanese students at a YouTube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsT97ax_Xb0
alwaysspeakingwisdom
" I just excerpt two comments two comments from Japanese students at a YouTube video."
Two students is not a representative sample and more likely Koreans pretending to be Japanese. It is common trick.
alwaysspeakingwisdom
Trump said something interesting. He said in any given situation you have to be prepared to walk away. I think Japan should follow his advise. Japan should cut ties with South Korea. Japan does need South Korea for anything! What about North Korea? What about it? Japan should have nukes and icbms that will keep Korea both North and South in its place.
alwaysspeakingwisdom
"Why does everybody give SJ the thumbs down simply for presenting a link to the opinion of Japanese legal experts on the subject? Did they even bother to read the experts views or were they just reacting against what they deemed to be anti-Japanese bias?"
At Hello Kitty and SJ
You are both correct in saying that there Japanese who support the Korean position. It shows that there is robust debate in Japan about Korea.
Question.
Can you tell about the Koreans who support the Japanese position? Are there any?
What about newspapers?
The Asahi Shimbun is very pro Korean.
Are there any South Korean Newspapers that are pro Japanese?
AgentX
And the pro Japan people here are sounding very hostile, as usual. Ever thought about taking the responsible and diplomatic route? It's no wonder that Japan continues to decline...
Nicolás Palacios
@Samit Basu
This makes no sense. Why would Japan go to war with the ROK, especially since they are treaty allies and important parts of US strategy to check the PRC’s influence and military capabilities. Whether the ROK “commands” the US military (which the Moon administration has treated with ambiguity) or not is irrelevant. Even if they were not allies, Japan has not demonstrated even an inkling of wanting of going to war with the ROK. If anything, it has been a very (perhaps too) conciliatory a neighbor, despite the belligerence that the Blue House panders to its electorate in times of political and/or economic strife.
What sort of fever dream are you lost in?
Wakarimasen
Both sides in these "historical disputes" are just pathetic. They should be standing together to face up to modern problems and issues, not rehashing the wrongs of the past.
Nicolás Palacios
@SJ
The first time at least was a military coup. Not exactly a people’s revolution.
But it is telling that Koreans never mustered enough support to topple their Japanese occupiers, high-profile assassination attempts notwithstanding. As somebody who has spent a fair amount of time researching related topics at the National Diet Library, I can ascertain that, contrary to popular belief, Koreans were mostly supportive of the Japanese. Perusing documents from the former Takumushō, one finds diplomatic cables relaying all kinds of interesting details about life in Chōsen. Most eye-popping for me were finding communiqués describing the fervent pro-Japanese patriotism held by many Koreans, especially in the north, rural areas, and on Jeju Island. One particular dispatch lamented that the pro-empire patriotism of Koreans outstripped that of ethnic Japanese. In one town where several IJA troops were being sent out to the Chinese front, the Koreans, this official reported, gave them a rousingly hearty send-off, while relatively few Japanese residents came to support. Another from the mid-1930s remarked that Koreans were mostly in favor of Japanese rule, save for the upper middle class and wealthy elites in the large cities.
You would think that if life in Chōsen were truly hell on Earth as it has retrospectively been portrayed, there would have been a massive and lasting popular upheaval against their rulers. But aside from the March 1st Movement and sporadic terrorist acts thereafter, there really was no organized group that effectively threatened Japan. (It is fascinating, though, the number of Korean historical magical realism films that portray the opposite have been created in the last couple decades.) The sad fact is the tales of Korean insubordination against Japan post-1920 are heavily exaggerated.
NihonRyu
@SJ I would tend to agree with you that the Japanese population nowadays in general especially post WW2 are a little too easily manipulated and obedient to its U.S. masters. I think it is time for them to realize that Japan needs to make their own destiny as that had many times before and becoming more independent or true equal footing partner with the U.S.: Think about how Japan was able to resist 2 attempts of a combined Mongolian/Chinese/Korean invasion by Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan and never ever capitulating to China's influence, one of very few fortunate countries to resist colonization for centuries while the rest of Asia/non-European peoples fell one after another, after Commodore Perry with his gunboat diplomacy, Japan then quickly modernized and adapted overturning unequal treaties and then went onto win the first major war where a non-European power defeated a major European power in the Russia-Japan war in early 1900s, Right or wrong Japan would have swept Asia conclusively within its domain without U.S. intervention, Japan rising from the ashes of humiliating defeat of WW2 (First ever, in its history) to become the 2nd largest economy (now 3rd) even with limited population and natural resources. (Its people/culture alone are Japan's greatest asset)
IMO: As Japan had awakened the sleeping Giant (The U.S.) during WW2, I think Korea's constant attempts to antagonize Japan constantly will backfire and awaken Japanese to the truth that Japan will need to become more assertive towards Korea. One thing about the Japanese, they are patient and tireless and have composure to a degree the Koreans will never be able to approach, this in their DNA and culturally ingrained. I pity what will happen to Korea and its people if Japan really begins to systematically turn their united population and attention to the detriment of Korea, let alone an all out war. The ferocity and fearlessness of the Japanese in battle has been well documented historically even back to the punitive war expeditions of Hideyoshi driving the retreating Korean forces all the way to Pyongyang and only with the combination of huge Chinese reinforcement was finally able to drive Hideyoshi's troops back to Japan.
Also: Following is an excerpt from the book "The Comfort Women" written by Korean professor Sarah Soh who has done extensive research in this matter should be required reading for all the Korean advocates on this forum:
SJ
@alwaysspeakingwisdom
There are no such things such as pro-Japanese or pro-Korean newspaper in S. Korea. A role of media is to voice diverse but sometimes conflicting opinions of all people. The primary role of media is to report objectively. Opinions can be published through editorial or readers' letter.
Regarding this matter, you may read the following opinion articles:
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=001&oid=353&aid=0000033130
Above all, nowadays most S. Korea don't trust the mainstream media and the government. Misinformation from the internet and the social network systems is more powerful.
And, press freedom is far better in S. Korea than Japan. Japan is in a league of the 3rd countries regarding press freedom. Japan ranked the 67-th after El Salvador among the 180 countries in 2018 world press freedom index: https://rsf.org/en/ranking.
Funko Toyoda
Korea is like the spoiled child who gets frustrated if he does not get what he wants and when he gets it he wants more. In any case, I think South Korea is the least of Japan's problems, if we think of North Korea or China.
showchinmono
The Link SJ pasted is just a statement made by a group of people whose profession happens to be "lawyer". This does not require any sort of special legal knowledge, nor expertise to understand or even to criticize the stated position about the issue. Just a bit of interest in the issue, common sense, and time to read it through to the end is good enough. Authoritarianism and Flunkyism often fog up your eyes.
Samit Basu
@Nicolas Palacios
1.Territorial Disputes
2.Naval confrontations as seen in the past month
Korea and Japan are NOT allies, they have nothing between them. You don't even seem to understand the meaning of word "treaty allies" mean.
It is highly relevant as the objective measurement of the ROK military's competence. Would Japan accept US command in wartime? Of course! Would Japan happy accept Philippines command in wartime? Absolutely not! How can you entrust the lives of Japanese SDF members in the hand of a Philippines general?
Do you now understand what US troops accepting the ROK command in wartime really means?
@NihonRyu
More like a retired grandpa with diminishing bank account balance and an arm too old to lift a gun...
Triring
Here is another blunder by ROK.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-sanctions/south-korea-selective-in-implementing-sanctions-on-north-group-idUSKCN1PH0D4
The patience of the world as a whole is growing thin against ROK's actions defying international treaties and agreements.
showchinmono
However furious the Japanese could become due to recent events, they would hardly become warmonger like this guy. And this is exactly the reason why I posted that it is time for Japan to eliminate real warmongering revengers out of Japanese society.
tokyodoumo
Japan's aggressive stance now is a sign of denial and unwillingness to reconcile... which has routinely been the standard policy since the War.
Nicolás Palacios
@tokyodoumo
Corrected your comment for you.
CrucialS
I love how you keep floating this line as if it actually means something.. Let's be real here, the USFK is transitioning CFC command to ROK because they want the ROK to have a more proactive role in their defense. The truth is, it will be ROK troops on the frontline being sent by their own generals to the meat grinder while the US plays a supporting role. Also, CFC will likely fall under operational control of the United Nations Command when the USFK General no longer dual hats the UNC/CFC command role. So a ROK General wont have true operational control of US forces as the CFC Commander. The US would never allow full control of its men and woman to an army built of conscripts.
CrucialS
women*
alwaysspeakingwisdom
"There are no such things such as pro-Japanese or pro-Korean newspaper in S. Korea. A role of media is to voice diverse but sometimes conflicting opinions of all people. The primary role of media is to report objectively."
Can you really say that the South Korean media has been objective about Japan? Really?
As for press freedom, perhaps you can expalin why South Korea jailed a Japanese reporter and why Reporters without Boarders said nothing about it.
My question still stands. Name one Korean newspaper that is fair to Japan. Name one. You can't can you?