Kishida sends ritual offering to Yasukuni shrine; economic security minister Takaichi visits

Oh, really? Kishida is Nippon Kaigi so it checks out (the sending an offering part).

but the premier, who heads a dovish faction within the conservative ruling Liberal Democratic Party

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Constant compromise of your values to APPEAL, any surprise greatest geopolitical crisis in many generations?!

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen

Nope, the PM doesn't act as a private citizen. I agree it's not newsworthy though, as it would be more shocking if the leader of the LDP wasn't a war-criminal worshipper.

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Well there is the rub.

Imagine a German Chancellor, about to host a G7 meaning and pontificate about peace and democracy, one week before made an offering to an enshrinement of Hitler, Himmler or Goring.

In a completely private capacity, off the clock off course.

Not that Germany would even have such a place enshrining them.

Some could see a problem.

Japan gets a pass in some respects, no doubt.

In 1978, Yasukuni added 14 Class-A war criminals, including wartime Prime Minister Gen Hideki Tojo, who was executed by hanging for crimes against peace, among the enshrined deities, stirring controversy at home and abroad.

To the innocent victims of war, may they rest in peace . . . .

Why does the tablet read Prime Minister Kishida Fumio?

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Ah, but dagon, as the excusers are always fond of saying, Japan has apologised many times. Therefore politicians seem to get a free pass to propitiate war criminals, in this case minutes before bleating about world peace.

sent a ritual offering to the war-linked Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo

As usual, he is trying to stand with one foot in each camp. Not actually visiting the shrine, but sending a gift. Pleasing both sides, or upsetting both sides, that is the question?

That last paragraph is not really fair.

They are not 'enshrined deities' but simply names on a long list of people who died for Japan in all wars since the 1880s to help their souls rest.

I agree that these names can and should be removed and possibly placed in another suitable (to the families) shrine somewhere else.

nandakandamanda

the names are written on paper which just turns to dust over time. There's nothing to remove. Register of names.

Unfortunately, there is no reversal of the situation.

Honoring the war dead is a perfectly normal thing for a leader of any country. Time to stop whining about it.

Oh, really? Kishida is Nippon Kaigi so it checks out (the sending an offering part).

but the premier, who heads a dovish faction within the conservative ruling Liberal Democratic Party

Exactly! Kishida is no dove.

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

I think Fredrik answered that question:

As usual, he is trying to stand with one foot in each camp. Not actually visiting the shrine, but sending a gift. Pleasing both sides, or upsetting both sides, that is the question?

Same thing- as PM he's making an offering, but when the outside complains he says its in the context of a private citizen. Oh really? Well stop having it reported then. And we know you can do THAT because Abe destroyed any semblance of a free press.

Well there is the rub.

Imagine a German Chancellor, about to host a G7 meaning and pontificate about peace and democracy, one week before made an offering to an enshrinement of Hitler, Himmler or Goring.

In a completely private capacity, off the clock off course.

Not that Germany would even have such a place enshrining them.

Some could see a problem.

Japan gets a pass in some respects, no doubt.

Well said! Japan got a free pass in many respects. Unlike Korea and Germany the country wasn't carved in 2. And the west by and large continue to turn a blind eye towards Yasukuni. If they applied the same standards to Japanese war crimes that they do to the Nazi war crimes everyone but Kono would be considered a holocaust denier and would be considered persona non grata by most if not all of the west .

Ah, but dagon, as the excusers are always fond of saying, Japan has apologised many times. Therefore politicians seem to get a free pass to propitiate war criminals, in this case minutes before bleating about world peace.

Exactly. And if they really want world peace they can start by the way they treat foreigners in their own country. How can you bleat about World Peace when you don't treat foreigners in your own country decently?

Their Country..

Their Culture..

Their Religion..

Their Rules..

Get over it people..

Added them, quote: "...among the enshrined deities", it says, Awa.

Perhaps it was you who did not understand what the article was naughtily (IMHO) trying to insinuate?

The priests there see the souls of the war dead in the heavens. I suppose you could argue that every star is now a 'kami', including those of other nationalities whose names are there on the list too?

GarthgoyleToday  01:05 pm JST

Honoring the war dead is a perfectly normal thing for a leader of any country. Time to stop whining about it.

You're not very well versed in this whole situation, are you.

TokyoLivingToday  01:25 pm JST

Their Country..

Their Culture..

Their Religion..

Their Rules..

Get over it people..

There's always someone who likes to parrot that mantra. Did you just copy/paste it from the last article about this topic? Well, "their rules" state that politicians do not get involved in religious activities except in a purely private capacity. Maybe you don't know "their rules" very well.

dagonToday  11:42 am JST

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Well there is the rub.

Imagine a German Chancellor, about to host a G7 meaning and pontificate about peace and democracy, one week before made an offering to an enshrinement of Hitler, Himmler or Goring.

"After attending a G-7 summit meeting in Bonn, in what was then West Germany, President Ronald Reagan on this day in 1985 made an eight-minute visit to the German war cemetery in Bitburg with Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor, who had suggested the side trip to the cemetery, where some 2,000 German soldiers lie buried."

"the cemetery also housed the graves of 49 Nazi storm troopers, members of the Waffen-SS. The Nuremberg judicial tribunal, set up to try Nazi war criminals, found the military wing of the SS, all of whom were volunteers until 1943, to be active participants in the Holocaust."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/05/this-day-in-politics-may-5-1985-565776

OssanAmericaToday  02:53 pm JST

dagonToday  11:42 am JST

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Well there is the rub.

Imagine a German Chancellor, about to host a G7 meaning and pontificate about peace and democracy, one week before made an offering to an enshrinement of Hitler, Himmler or Goring.

"After attending a G-7 summit meeting in Bonn, in what was then West Germany, President Ronald Reagan on this day in 1985 made an eight-minute visit to the German war cemetery in Bitburg with Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor, who had suggested the side trip to the cemetery, where some 2,000 German soldiers lie buried."

"the cemetery also housed the graves of 49 Nazi storm troopers, members of the Waffen-SS. The Nuremberg judicial tribunal, set up to try Nazi war criminals, found the military wing of the SS, all of whom were volunteers until 1943, to be active participants in the Holocaust."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/05/this-day-in-politics-may-5-1985-565776

I don't think that's okay personally, presumably you do because you've mentioned it in order to deflect any criticusm from Kishida.

Prime Minister Fumio Kishida on Friday sent a ritual offering to the war-linked Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo,

Prime Minister Fumio Kishida just needs to walk through the front door/main entrance with his head up.

The Governments of China/North Korea feel threatened, intimidated, menaced by a Prime Minster holding a ritual offering?

While daily infringing Japan sea and airspace, threatening nuclear war?

On your bike Sonny Jim.

I don't think that's okay personally

Same. And BTW neither did most of the country

This planned visit caused a great deal of anger within the United States. Many prominent government officials, U.S. Army officers and celebrities, each with ties, or friends with ties to their respective Jewish communities, all protested the planned visit. 53 senators (including 11 Republicans), signed a letter asking the president to cancel and 257 representatives (including 84 Republicans) signed a letter urging Chancellor Kohl to withdraw the invitation. Former Army S/Sgt. Jim Hively mailed his World War II decorations, including a Silver Star and a Bronze Star, to Reagan in protest

NOTHING like that can be expected from Japanese politicians nor the general public. PLUS after that On Sunday 5 May, Reagan and Kohl appeared at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. 

Bitburg controversy - Wikipedia

On top of that, it was a 1 time visit.

Reagan's visit also inspired the Ramones to pen one of their finest songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-L_5HedJbw

Bonzo goes to Bitburg, then goes out for a cup of tea

As I watched it on TV, somehow it really bothered me

Drank in all the bars in town to understand your foreign policy

Pick up the pieces

If there's one thing that makes me sick

It's when someone tries to hide behind politics

I wish that time could go by fast

Somehow, they manage to make it last

I think that was a mistake, especially before his big G7 meeting. Western media is already talking about it.

I bet Takaichi was first in line.

I thought she promised to quit a few months ago.

I bet Takaichi was first in line.

Good odds.

I thought she promised to quit a few months ago.

You believe anything that comes out of a LDP member's mouth? Especially one that is alt right?

In 1978, Yasukuni added 14 Class-A war criminals

It's probably worth noting that no Japanese emperor has visited the shrine since then.

Hardly newsworthy. There’s nothing wrong with honoring the war dead.

Simon FostonToday  03:05 pm JST

OssanAmericaToday  02:53 pm JST

dagonToday  11:42 am JST

Why is this even being reported in the news, if it's a gesture made as a private citizen.

Well there is the rub.

Imagine a German Chancellor, about to host a G7 meaning and pontificate about peace and democracy, one week before made an offering to an enshrinement of Hitler, Himmler or Goring.

"After attending a G-7 summit meeting in Bonn, in what was then West Germany, President Ronald Reagan on this day in 1985 made an eight-minute visit to the German war cemetery in Bitburg with Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor, who had suggested the side trip to the cemetery, where some 2,000 German soldiers lie buried."

"the cemetery also housed the graves of 49 Nazi storm troopers, members of the Waffen-SS. The Nuremberg judicial tribunal, set up to try Nazi war criminals, found the military wing of the SS, all of whom were volunteers until 1943, to be active participants in the Holocaust."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/05/this-day-in-politics-may-5-1985-565776

I don't think that's okay personally, presumably you do because you've mentioned it in order to deflect any criticusm from Kishida.

You are overly presumptuous. I was merely showing that dagon's argument wasn't very valid.

The wash and rinse cycle repeats itself every time.

You are overly presumptuous. I was merely showing that dagon's argument wasn't very valid.

And you would be illogical in that assessment and in your initial assessment.

As already pointed out, there was great pushback in the West against this single instance, the interned were complicit stormtroopers yet not architects of the Holocaust and a compensatory visit was made to honor the victims.

None of which occurs in this case

False analogy and weak whataboutism would be how your analogy could be assessed in the case of Kishidas actions today.

The day after he urged China to 'act responsibly' on the World stage......

All these comments trying to compare this with Beijing's behaviour. To be quite honest the Yasukuni visits absolutely pale in comparison and are really the business of Japan if they so wish to honour their dead. And these visits to Yasukuni are completely internal - Japan are not building armed manmade islands or interning a million Muslims or restricting democracy in Hong Kong or threatening Taiwan with armed invasion. The Japanese are peaceful people who do not attack protestors at their embassies nor have they created any secret police stations around the world. Be thankful that the Yasukuni visits are the most controversial thing that Japan does.

Don't be hypocritical because you also are comparing Japan and China !

Get real !

But this is the reality. One of the loudest complaints about Yasukuni comes from Beijing. Which is rich considering their current behaviour. And it's a fair comparison. Japan are being accused of not apologising for war crimes and for honouring war criminals. Yet in our current year 2023 Japan are passive in world politics whilst their rival economic powerhouse Beijing is overtly aggressive towards it's neighbours. You all complain about a ritual honouring Japanese war dead yet nobody does a thing about Muslims interned and 're-educated' in China and plans for an armed invasion of the independent country of Taiwan.

i think South korea and China have no right to cry over this issue every single year.

The soldiers were following orders, and they have paid the ultimate price for their own country.

Its an internal matter ,and china and korea or whoever else has no business interfering in that matter.

These imperial Japan histrionics should be left in the hands of educators not open to be leveraged by the Government of China to cynically lecture.

JUST when things were starting to turn around with South Korea, almost 100% on their part and their efforts, the Japanese government on cue has to go and do this kind of action.

OssanAmericaApr. 21  06:00 pm JST

Simon FostonToday  03:05 pm JST

OssanAmericaToday  02:53 pm JST "After attending a G-7 summit meeting in Bonn, in what was then West Germany, President Ronald Reagan on this day in 1985 made an eight-minute visit to the German war cemetery in Bitburg with Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor, who had suggested the side trip to the cemetery, where some 2,000 German soldiers lie buried."

"the cemetery also housed the graves of 49 Nazi storm troopers, members of the Waffen-SS. The Nuremberg judicial tribunal, set up to try Nazi war criminals, found the military wing of the SS, all of whom were volunteers until 1943, to be active participants in the Holocaust."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/05/this-day-in-politics-may-5-1985-565776

I don't think that's okay personally, presumably you do because you've mentioned it in order to deflect any criticusm from Kishida.

You are overly presumptuous. I was merely showing that dagon's argument wasn't very valid.

Do you think it was wrong for Reagan and Kohl to go to that cemetary?

MeiyouwentiApr. 21  05:53 pm JST

Hardly newsworthy.

Yet rlght-wing politicians make sure it gets in the news.

There’s nothing wrong with honoring the war dead.

You really think that's the politicians' main objective here? Besides, there are actual secular state occasions for honouring the war dead. Why don't LDP politicians just attend those and keep their religious practices strictly private?

smithinjapanToday  09:51 am JST

JUST when things were starting to turn around with South Korea, almost 100% on their part and their efforts, the Japanese government on cue has to go and do this kind of action.

The geriatric right-wing faithful need reassurances that they're getting value for their votes and cash.

JUST when things were starting to turn around with South Korea, almost 100% on their part and their efforts, the Japanese government on cue has to go and do this kind of action.

Things had been turned around by South Korea under the previous administration , almost 100% on their part, and now almost turned around back to zero on their part. What is the issue with Japan Huh?

itsonlyrocknrollApr. 21  03:10 pm JST

Prime Minister Fumio Kishida just needs to walk through the front door/main entrance with his head up.

Why? That shrine isn't state property and the constitution seperates politics from religion.

TigersTokyoDomeApr. 21  09:21 pm JST

All these comments trying to compare this with Beijing's behaviour. To be quite honest the Yasukuni visits absolutely pale in comparison and are really the business of Japan if they so wish to honour their dead. 

Don't any of you people get it? Japan actually has state occasions for honouring the war dead. They are not held at Yasukuni, which is a private religious establishment. The Chinese and Koreans don't complain about them at all. Of course everyone is perfectly entitled to go to Yasukuni because freedom of religious observances is a right guaranteed by the constitution, but for these LDP politicians it's just a tacky PR stunt. They don't care about the war dead. They just want campaign donations and votes from right-wing nationalists.

This problem began in 1985, when Prime Minister Nakasone took office. Prior to that, no country had ever complained.

In other words, it became a political issue from 1985, and even Chinese President Zhou Enlai visited the shrine before that.

Who would object to Americans going to Arlington Cemetery?

It's not a matter of sentiment, it's just an anti-Japanese political card of China and South Korea, but there are many people who don't understand it.

No one should be allowed to raise any objection to the Japanese memorial service for the war dead, regardless of the issues that have arisen since the immediate post-war period.

To do so would be mere interference in domestic affairs.

By the way, as an excuse for the then Prime Minister Nakasone to visit the shrine, he said, "I visited the shrine as a private person, not as a public figure."

As a result, the Japanese emperor, who is a symbol of the nation and has no status as a private person, cannot make official visits to the shrine.

However, a substitute person is selected every year to officially visit the shrine.

A.NApr. 22  11:42 pm JST

Who would object to Americans going to Arlington Cemetery?

False equivalency. Arlington Cemetery is owned by the US Department of the Army.

No one should be allowed to raise any objection to the Japanese memorial service for the war dead, regardless of the issues that have arisen since the immediate post-war period.

No one objects to the official events to commemorate the end of World War 2.

By the way, as an excuse for the then Prime Minister Nakasone to visit the shrine, he said, "I visited the shrine as a private person, not as a public figure."

He made a public announcement about it.

As a result, the Japanese emperor, who is a symbol of the nation and has no status as a private person, cannot make official visits to the shrine.

That's a result of the Constitution separating government from religion and the disestablishment of Shinto as the state religion.

However, a substitute person is selected every year to officially visit the shrine.

Where did you find that out? How can it be "official" when the shrine is privately owned?

@Simon Foston

It seems that Japanese shrines and temples are completely private, so let me correct that.

Religious corporations are organizations whose main purpose is to spread doctrine, hold ceremonies and events, and educate and nurture believers. A "religious organization" has acquired corporate status after being certified by a prefectural governor or the Minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

Yasukuni Shrine and other Buddhist temples are all religious corporations, and there is a government agency called the Shrine Agency or the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

Is this still a completely private organization?

Also, the separation of church and state and the position of His Majesty the Emperor of Japan are different categories. You are right about the separation of church and state, but the Emperor of Japan does not have the status of a private person. The imperial family, which is a symbol of the country, has only a position as a public figure.

Since Prime Minister Nakasone said that he visited the shrine as a private person, the Emperor of Japan, who does not have a status as a private person, cannot visit the shrine. Does this explanation make sense?

Regarding visits by proxy, imperial envoy visits at annual festivals and visits by members of the imperial family other than the inner court are being held. This is the announcement of the Ministry of the Imperial Household.