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Lavrov asks why Japan only country in world that can't accept results of World War II

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By Kazuhiro Nogi

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Germany could not either.

So under Gorbachev East and West Germany were reunited.

16 ( +35 / -19 )

This guy should be asking China and South Korea the same question!

26 ( +40 / -14 )

.

Not to mention the countries like Romania, Estonia, Czechoslovakia, Poland - those who were part so the eastern bloc.

NONE of them accepted the terms of capitulation ratified after WWII that put them under the Soviet regime.

Through artful political negotiation Reagan /Thatcher with Gorbachev these eastern countries finally became sovereign and independent again.

.Lovrov needs to study his history..

32 ( +42 / -10 )

This is a very difficult question.

-21 ( +8 / -29 )

What is rarely mentioned is that the USSR entered the war against Japan as part of a deal made between Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt that the Soviets would assist against Japan after Germany was defeated.

The USSR was obligated to attack.

-8 ( +17 / -25 )

 "Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

Because the results were unfair to Japan. Which other nation has had 2 atomic bombs dropped on it, AND had inalienable territory stolen by a so called “victor”? Soviet Union did not beat Japan. They are Japanese owned islands, always will be, why cant Lavrov and his master Putin accept it?

-21 ( +27 / -48 )

One word, pride.

5 ( +24 / -19 )

The USSR was obligated to attack.

But not keep what they took!

15 ( +28 / -13 )

Not to mention the countries like Romania, Estonia, Czechoslovakia, Poland - those who were part so the eastern bloc.

Rusia took almost half of Romanian territory and most of Poland, so yeah only Japan didn’t play ball...

27 ( +31 / -4 )

*Russians

8 ( +17 / -9 )

Why should the Japanese accept anything Lavrov opines?

However, Japanese should understand that ‘to the victor, go the spoils’

And that is the reality....

-5 ( +16 / -21 )

YIkes the truth hurts.

-10 ( +17 / -27 )

"On Wednesday he said that, as well as the islands dispute, Japan's pro-Western position was also harming relations between Moscow and Tokyo."

Maybe because Japan is a Westernized country? It's like they're saying 'Japan voting in it's best interests is hurting our relationship'.

18 ( +26 / -8 )

Lavrov asks why Japan only country in world that can't accept results of World War II

The USSR was the only WWII Allied power that broke the terms of the Cairo Declaration by taking territory that was Japanese by Treaty going back to 1855 and never theirs, and by violating the declaration that no further territrial expansion by the Allied powers would be carried out. The USSR violated the latter in Europe and Asia.

Japan not the only country that considers these four islands to be Japanese territory under Russian occupation. So do the other former WWII Allied powers.

17 ( +30 / -13 )

kurisupisuToday  07:20 am JST

Why should the Japanese accept anything Lavrov opines?

However, Japanese should understand that ‘to the victor, go the spoils’

And that is the reality....

That's the Russian thinking. The United States took and gave Okinawa back. Sure there are issues. But we didn't keep it claiming that was the "result of WWII".

21 ( +33 / -12 )

He kind of has a pretty good point. A few of the posts above put China and South Korea in the same boat as Japan. Perhaps, if the Japanese historians and politicians weren’t downplaying and denying the atrocities committed by Japan against these countries they would be prepared to let it go.

-12 ( +16 / -28 )

"Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

But, of course, despite the agreements put in place after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia reneged / violated agreements in place to invade and annex Crimea.

So, the idea that Russia can lecture on this basis is laughable.

And, according to his logic, because the results of the war are the reason Russia possesses these islands, the U.S. could have never returned sovereignty of the Japanese mainland and / Okinawa and held onto it as the spoils of war. Which they didn't, of course, unlike Russia.

Across the world, a number of countries have returned territories they occupied through conquest / colonization, not because they had to, but because it was the "right" thing to do.

Alas, Russia, under Putin, will never return these territories and Japan cannot make it do so,

Realpolitik would be for Japan to stipulate that these islands are eternally part of Japan and that Japan will never renounce its claims to them and will not sign a peace agreement with Russia until they are returned.

And then just be done with it for now, until such time as an opportunity arises to reclaim them,

25 ( +31 / -6 )

Lavrov’s remarks seem to contradict Putin’s. Is there some kind of power struggle going on in Kremlin or is this a pre-summit meeting bluff from Russia ?

14 ( +19 / -5 )

"Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

Good question.

Because the PM of Japan is stuck in the past and wants to bring back the imperial glories of prewar Japan.

-18 ( +19 / -37 )

Which other nation has had 2 atomic bombs dropped on it, AND had inalienable territory stolen by a so called “victor”? 

Was the territory that Japan invaded during World War II not "inalienable" to those countries? Or is only Japanese territory inalienable?

-10 ( +14 / -24 )

extankerToday  07:30 am JST

"On Wednesday he said that, as well as the islands dispute, Japan's pro-Western position was also harming relations between Moscow and Tokyo."

Good may they forever be an obstacle to better Japan-Russian relations as long as Russia is run by a neo-Stalinist.

23 ( +25 / -2 )

If you start a war and lose a war, the terms are not yours to decide.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Was the territory that Japan invaded during World War II not "inalienable" to those countries? Or is only Japanese territory inalienable?

Which is why it was given back...

16 ( +23 / -7 )

A myriad of reasons too many to list here. japans the only ex axis of evil nations that did not truly face the music as a result of the crass acts of aggression committed against its neighbours. america is mostly to blame due to the incessant cuddling that involved actually keeping the same criminals on as government employees back in the day. A failure to deeply reflect and empathize with the real victims is why we are here today. A few payoffs do not contrition make. One can only hope the next generation can study the real events that occurred during that dark time outside their controlled classrooms. One can only hope.

-10 ( +17 / -27 )

YES!

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

A myriad of reasons too many to list here. japans the only ex axis of evil nations that did not truly face the music as a result of the crass acts of aggression committed against its neighbours.

Yeah, it's not like they had a couple nukes dropped on them or anything crazy like that...

6 ( +19 / -13 )

Yeah, it's not like they had a couple nukes dropped on them or anything crazy like that...

Which wasn't Japan accepting responsibility after the war ended.

-10 ( +10 / -20 )

Which wasn't Japan accepting responsibility after the war ended.

But it is what I would call 'facing the music'.

9 ( +19 / -10 )

Thank you Mr. Lavrov for finally putting an end to Russian complaints about US bases dotted around Europe and Asia. That does get a bit tedious.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Which is why it was given back...

It was given back; it was taken back.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Oops, should be

It wasn't given back; it was taken back.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

It's time for Lavrov to retire to an asylum where he'll enjoy a more understanding audience with his lectures.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

But it is what I would call 'facing the music'.

Facing the music for not having surrendered, but that's not what you were disagreeing with. You were imolying that Japan faced the music after the war.

-17 ( +3 / -20 )

If you start a war and lose a war, the terms are not yours to decide.

The reality is indeed that any concessions the vanquished may be granted are wholly conditional upon the magnanimity of the victor.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Lavrov asks why Japan only country in world that can't accept results of World War II"

Oyaji pride.

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

It wasn't given back; it was taken back.

The end result is the same. We aren't discussing during the war, we're discussing after.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

It is just like someone came in occupied your empty house .When you came back to find out your own house were occupied .You try to evicted them but they claim no one were living in so they stay .Would you said OK .I don't think so .Same go with Russian .The island were never own by Russian century ago .Due to world war Russian invade and take over.so Russian what can you expect Japan definitely won't budge.you took my land ,how can still be friend .idiot

10 ( +19 / -9 )

Because the results were unfair to Japan. Which other nation has had 2 atomic bombs dropped on it, AND had inalienable territory stolen by a so called “victor”? 

That's something to keep in mind next time you sabre rattle. Wars usually turn out badly for everyone, and nobody can predict what course they will follow.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

@Chip Star

Facing the music for not having surrendered, but that's not what you were disagreeing with. You were imolying that Japan faced the music after the war.

This is what I was disagreeing with:

japans the only ex axis of evil nations that did not truly face the music as a result of the crass acts of aggression committed against its neighbours.

I would consider being nuked to be facing the music for their acts of aggression. Whether it was in order to hasten their surrender or punish them, they were definitely punished, arguably more so than any other axis power.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Lavrov said. "Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

Mr Lavrov as Russia's Foreign Minister needs to get out a little more or at least use google a little bit. How about South Korea accepting the results of WWII and quite a few other countries that still have a beef with Japan...including Russia it seems.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

On Wednesday he said that, as well as the islands dispute, Japan's pro-Western position was also harming relations between Moscow and Tokyo.

Yes Mr. Lavrov that is a hard one to understand isn't it. Although looking at it Japans political system is actually more aligned with those of your government and its simply just window dressed to look like a democracy with a pro-Western position.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan already lost sovereignty.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Boom, talk about throwing a scanner into the works. More like a grenade! This is going to be very ‘regrettable’ to the usual crowd.

The reason is quite simple mate. They can’t deal with it. Just doesn’t fit the narrative. And of course many other people did bad things during war...

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

I think Japan knows that if they were to accede to Russia's demands, five years down the road, 99% of Japan's population won't even care that Japan got back only Shikotan and Habomai. NHK can continue to put all four on its weather map and all will be well so long as people can wait in line for hours to have their tapioca drink or whatever the latest trend is.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Maybe because Japan is a Westernized country?

What does ''Westernized'' mean? Imagine monopolizing modernity as the definition of your own culture. Wow. Maybe you should all have a history lesson of post-ww2 Europe. European countries became high-income developed nations in the late 80s, the same time Japan did. And they did that with massive American support in terms of grants and loans and all kinds of institutional help, just like Japan. So maybe use the word ''Americanized'' instead? But you don't like term, do you.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

President Nixon returned Okinawa to Japanese sovereignty. Was he not accepting the outcome of the war by doing so?

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Good question. Answer: National self-pity while trying to hide and deny Japanese atrocities is a major pillar in LDP ideology.

It is absurd that a few off shore rocks are keeping Japan from signing a peace treaty with Russia.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

Something to consider: had Hitler, or Stalin or Mao controlled the Indian subcontinent, what would have happened to Gandhi and his followers? They all would have been dealt with harshly, right? Let's give credit where credit is due to Anglosphere and its values.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well done! The world needs more politicians like him telling Japan to face up to their WW2 atrocities.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

The USA captured and occupied Okinawa near the end of the war.

But the USA returned Okinawa to Japan.

Why should Russia not do the same with the islands that the USSR took?

12 ( +15 / -3 )

So maybe use the word ''Americanized'' instead? But you don't like term, do you.

I used the term 'Westernized' because Russia use the term 'Pro-Western'. Had they used the term 'Pro American' my comment would have reflected that. Sheesh.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Kabukilover Today  09:32 am JST

Good question. Answer: National self-pity while trying to hide and deny Japanese atrocities is a major pillar in LDP ideology.

It is absurd that a few off shore rocks are keeping Japan from signing a peace treaty with Russia.

They are not just "a few off shore rocks" -- they have natural resources both on the islands and in the waters surrounding them.

If they were only "a few off shore rocks," why did the USSR bother to take them? And why has Russia kept them all these years? Obviously they are of some benefit.

Also, if another country invaded and occupied a part of your country that was seen as insignificant, it would still be an invasion of your country. It would understandably concern your country and even people around the world.

That part of a country's territory is seen as an insignificant "rock" is no excuse for another country to take it. It's still a violation of another country's sovereignty.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Classic! And bang on!

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

because it was an unjust, cruel war just like ww1? people only remember Germany invaded Poland today, while the real history was poland was invaded, and torn apart by BOTH Germany and Soviet.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Pretty dumb question.  Japan is not the only country which questions the "results" of WW2.  There are any number of simmering disputes resulting from territorial or other legacy issues.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Japan is lucky that the war didn't end wit Hokkaido in Soviet hands - in fact they are lucky there wasn't a Berlin wall drawn through Tokyo.

It's extremely obvious that the best possible result for Japan is the split that has been proposed by the Russians several times and that pride is getting in the way of that is really unfortunate.

It's been 70+ years. No Japanese people live there. The people who live there are Russian, and in many cases have been living there for generations now.

Russia may not have a moral case for keeping the islands but from a pragmatic perspective it is time for Japan to wake up.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Through artful political negotiation Reagan /Thatcher with Gorbachev these eastern countries finally became sovereign and independent again.

.Lovrov needs to study his history..

Whilst there's little doubt that negotiations between these figures helped, there was also the strength and power of the peoples movement like Solidarity in Poland. Although Poland is a central European country, not Eastern. And then we all remember that people power removed the dreadful Ceausescus in Romania. The uprisings seem to be forgotten in favor of Gorbachev and the Western leaders.

As for why can't Japan accept the results? Perhaps another referendum ;-)

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Well done! The world needs more politicians like him telling Japan to face up to their WW2 atrocities.

I wonder how US nationals here feel when told to face up to their WW2 atrocities. It doesn't go down too well, does it? I think many Japanese are only too aware of what happened in the Pacific War, they can't help it if nationalists downplay the excesses.

Mind you, nationalist or not, I'd not accept the atrocities commited here by the allies. Whether 70 or 700 years passed.

The talks must be kept going even with Lavrov's short sighted comments in the background.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Very good question actually. And one to which Japan has no answer.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

The islands will always remain part of Russia. The price paid for Japan's WWII crimes and aggressions.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

Russia isn't very good at respecting treaty or decision made by other countries either... after being Russia foreign minister for 25 years he should know it...

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Let me tell you why Mr. Lavrov:

Because Stalin and Tojo signed the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact (日ソ中立条約 Nisso Chūritsu Jōyaku)

in 1941, yet on Aug 8 1945 USSR Foreign Commissar Molotov announced that the Soviet Government declares that from tomorrow, that is from Aug. 9, the Soviet Government will consider itself to be at war with Japan.

Translation: When Japan had already been utterly devastated by the US, therefore the USSR had not expected any serious resistance, Stalin rushed in to grab the islands as well as Manchuria and half the Korean peninsula.

Obviously Russia signs treaties when it suits their interest then disregards them when it no longer suits their interest. See Mr. Lavrov, your country has a credibility problem?

9 ( +13 / -4 )

This is really a good question, Mr Lavrov!  When some naïve people like Mr.Abe has lost his minds, this is your obligation to remind him of what is real! That's what 'Friends' are for!!

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Why is Russia hanging on to WW11 gains which she acquired with US wartime aid. Isn't it fair and decent to return to the Japanese what is essentially theirs, especially since, they have been punished disproprtionately with two atomic bombs for their misadventure. This archaic behaviour is not reflective of a major power and a guardian of a peaceful world. The Japanese, on the other hand, have contributed immensely to economic growth and world peace and disavowed militarisation. They should not continue to be bullied. The ball is in the Russian court to end this injustice to the Japanese people and show their magnamity now.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Everyone talks about Japan's "atrocities and aggressions" which is irrelevant to this article, because Russia was not a recipient of those "atrocities and aggressions". The Soviet Army raped both German and Japanese civilians on a scale unheard of.

"Western estimates of the traceable number of rape victims range from two hundred thousand to two million.[103] Following the Winter Offensive of 1945, mass rape by Soviet males occurred in all major cities taken by the Red Army. Women were gang raped by as many as several dozen soldiers during the liberation of Poland. In some cases victims who did not hide in the basements all day were raped up to 15 times.[78][104] According to historian Antony Beevor, following the Red Army's capture of Berlin in 1945, Soviet troops raped German women and girls as young as eight years old."

"Crimes against humanity were also committed against Japanese civilians. For instance the Gegenmiao massacre[127] was conducted by the Soviet Army against a group of some 1,800 Japanese women and children who had taken refuge in the lamasery Gegenmiao/Koken-miao (葛根廟) on August 14, 1945 during the Soviet invasion of Manchuria.["

"The Soviet Army committed crimes against the Japanese civilian populations and surrendered military personnel in the closing stages of World War II during the assaults on Sakhalin and Kuril Islands"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Valid question. It all goes back to Japan's thwarted colonial ambitions beginning in the Meiji era, the role of the Showa Emperor in WWII, and the fact that the historical revisionists of the LDP have been in power since the occupation ended.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

yet on Aug 8 1945 USSR Foreign Commissar Molotov announced that the Soviet Government declares that from tomorrow, that is from Aug. 9, the Soviet Government will consider itself to be at war with Japan.

The USSR declared war on Japan as part of an agreement with the U.S. and Britain which was this: Break its 1941 neutrality pact with Japan and declare war on Japan exactly 3 months after Germany surrenders. This agreement was reached among the "Big Three" powers at Yalta in February 1945. Germany surrendered in Europe on 8 May 1945. Three months after that was 8 August 1945. The USSR merely did what it had been urged and encouraged to do by the United States and Britain. So please, all of you, blame Washington and London as well for helping to bring about the current Russian occupation of the Kurils all the way up to Hokkaido.

The root problem of this Russia-Japan dispute is that in the 3 months in 1945 between Germany's surrender and the USSR's declaration of war on Japan, the attitude of the US government towards the USSR fundamentally shifted and became extremely hostile as the major common enemy of the two countries (Nazi Germany) was suddenly gone and Hitler was dead. But U.S. leaders still felt such extreme animus towards Japan for all that had occurred during the war years that they couldn't renege on the Yalta agreement and object to the USSR's seizure of Japanese territory in the Kuril Islands chain. And the Americans certainly couldn't object to Moscow's actions after the U.S. military had just dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan, for crying out loud.

But then later during the Cold War the U.S. shifted gears and strongly urged its now subordinate ally (Japan) to be unyielding in demanding return of all 4 islands, as the last line of the article notes.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Looks like Japan have poked the bear!

"Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

There is no such thing as 'accepting' the outcome of a war/conflict (i mean 'forever'), nothing is set in stone. Ppl, circumstances, aspirations etc change.

That said, I think Abe & co are fighting a losing battle. Even some sort of demilitarization (of the islands) seems highly improbable right now (although it sounds more 'reasonable').

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japanese are quick to proclaim their victimhood of atomic bombings, but no mention of their participation in WWII. It's as if poor little Japan was just an isolated island nation minding its own business, completely neutral, and big bad USA decided to drop some atomic bombs. Enough with the peace not war signs - you made war on the world - you got what you deserved.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Russia has the gaw to make comment like this? The ones who don't honor treaties, and like a common thief stealss the islands right before the end of the war? they certainly did not fight for it... But then again, you can never all Russia to do the right thing... They never have done anything right.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Which other nation has had 2 atomic bombs dropped on it .

this is precisely why Japan continually gets ridiculed over WW2, Japan attacked/colonised China in 1931, 10yrs before they even attacked pearl harbour, over 10 million dead asian later , vast majority slaughtered by the IJA , 16yrs after attacking China 2 atomic bombs were used to finally stop their barbaric ways. Japan slaughtered at least 4 times as many people than they lost themselves, vast majority of them civilians.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

I would consider being nuked to be facing the music for their acts of aggression. Whether it was in order to hasten their surrender or punish them, they were definitely punished, arguably more so than any other axis power.

Point taken.

There is zero doubt that Japan has not accepted responsibility for its aggression and war crimes, which is evidenced by Japan playing the victim card every August and denying its atrocities.

Wikipedia is not a credible source to cite in any critical discourse.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Ganbare Japan: "Because the results were unfair to Japan."

Cry cry, Japan! If you're worried about unfair, how about the colonization and murder, rape, and torture of more than 10 million across Asia?

I love how you guys prove exactly what this man is saying, and then thumb down ferociously because the Truth hurts.

OssanAmerica: "Everyone talks about Japan's "atrocities and aggressions" which is irrelevant to this article, "

Of course it is, Ossan. It Always is when Japan is the aggressor. Only their victimhood, which is Always according to you, is Always relevant. The Reason why Russia has the islands? Their aggression! because Japan was part of the Axis that Russia fought? "IRRELAVENT" according to you.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Everyone talks about Japan's "atrocities and aggressions" which is irrelevant to this article, because Russia was not a recipient of those "atrocities and aggressions". 

I think you meant, " . . . because Russia was not a victim of those atrocities and aggressions." Also, no need to put quote around atrocities and aggressions because they were very real, which everyone except the Japanese recognize.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Also, if another country invaded and occupied a part of your country that was seen as insignificant, it would still be an invasion of your country. It would understandably concern your country and even people around the world. That part of a country's territory is seen as an insignificant "rock" is no excuse for another country to take it. It's still a violation of another country's sovereignty.

You mean like Japan did when they invaded all the places in Asia prior and during WW2?

Would Japan return all that territory if they were not defeated?

It's extremely obvious that the best possible result for Japan is the split that has been proposed by the Russians several times and that pride is getting in the way of that is really unfortunate.It's been 70+ years. No Japanese people live there. The people who live there are Russian, and in many cases have been living there for generations now.

Russia may not have a moral case for keeping the islands but from a pragmatic perspective it is time for Japan to wake up.

Precisely, the onky reason the issue is even on the horizon after all this time is because  LDP and the black brigade who use it for their political aims keep bringing it up. How about the Ainu make a claim against the J-govt since the islands were  " historically theirs ".

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

To be honest those islands have no economic significance, no minerals nothing, just barren lands.

Senkaku on the other hand has a lot of gas under ground and is a RECENT problem with the Chinese navy ceding control there. We should awaken Russia to take action against this and then we can formalize ties, considering Russia and China are buddies.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sergei Lavrov, you might familiarize yourself with the works of George Santayana. Just sayin'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No way can Russia give up this islands to a country controlled by USA. Before the ink would dry Americans would have their base there and threaten Russian security. Japan is playing a prostitute in this game and does not deserve any sympathy.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

To be honest those islands have no economic significance, no minerals nothing, just barren lands.

There is a great economic significance in that the area around those islands extends Japanese economic zone and it includes rich fishing grounds.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Atlantic Charter(1941)

First, their countries (the Allies) seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other;

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;

Cairo Declaration(1943)

The Three Great Allies are fighting this war to restrain and punish the aggression of Japan. They covet no gain for themselves and have no thought of territorial expansion.

Potsdam Declaration(1945)

(8) The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine.

These were the guiding principles of WW2. Since the Allies had "no thought of territorial expansion", the Soviet Union or Russia cannot gain any new territory as a result of WW2. So, the islands in question belong to Japan.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Says the country that invaded and annexed Crimea, a crime against democratic and international law.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Somoene mentioned the Cairo Conference regarding post WW2 peace and land declaration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Conference

Quite interesting read.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Thats never reflected in history class in junior high.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Thats never reflected in history class in junior high.

Because a Japanese social studies/history teach in JHS or HS will tell you that because Japanese history has over 2000 years to cover, the period of WWII is rather insignificant, with the exception of being bombed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so they dont have the time to cover it!

And while that paragraph is laced with sarcasm, the kernel of truth is that there is a generation or more, of Japanese people that have little idea about the circumstances surrounding the beginning of WWII and the aftermath, other than Japan becoming a world economic power.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yeah our history classesis whitewashed rubbish about everything, thank God for the Internet..

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Interesting how many anglo-saxon point of views are shared here,as a neutral one I have to say that Soviet Union was no saint and Russia the same but the U.S. are neither,all the "defensive system" that they imposed to their NATO counterpart to be installed nearby Russian soil are just a consequence of such new cold war system.

NATO is obsolete now,and I hope someday the E.U. will leave such a silly alliance.

And Japan should accept the outcome of the WW2, or maybe the U.K. can return Gibiltair back to Spain.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Japan should be recognized as a free and independent nation by its neighbor.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I suspect Gospodin Lavrov is been having too often too much Russian vodka and his brain cells are quite damaged from alcohol...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Thats never reflected in history class in junior high.

Yeah our history classesis whitewashed rubbish about everything, thank God for the Internet..

Ossanamerica et al, care to pitch in?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The self-righteousness and hypocrisy on the Japan side of this is breathtaking.

Unless I'm missing something, the chain of events is something like:

Japan embarks on expansionist, imperialist foreign policy, attempting to conquer as much of Asia as they could manage, WITH NO INTENTION OF GIVING IT BACK. During the implementation of this strategy they inflicted untold misery, death and suffering.

Japan catastrophically over-reaches, enters a global conflict, siding with a rare example of a regime that surely we can universally agree were the bad guys

Japan loses the war and then expects that the territory that they have lost will be given back, despite the fact that they got into this mess by TRYING TO ANNEX AS MUCH TERRITORY AS THEY COULD, WITH NO INTENTION OF GIVING IT BACK.

I have no love of the Russian regime, and morally they probably should have returned the islands by now. However, this does not translate to sympathy for the Japan perspective. There are not thousands of Japanese people being persecuted under the Russian yoke; there are not hordes of Japanese desperate to return to live in their ancestral homeland, in fact most of the frosty rural north is rapidly depopulating.

Two wrongs do not make a right, but Japan should do a bit more of what they ask their Asian victims to do - get over it.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Russia has never forgiven japan for the thrashing they got in the Russo-Japanese War. Especially the battle of Tsushima.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Two wrongs do not make a right, but Japan should do a bit more of what they ask their Asian victims to do - get over i

Astute analysis.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I would consider being nuked to be facing the music for their acts of aggression. Whether it was in order to hasten their surrender or punish them, they were definitely punished, arguably more so than any other axis power.

Except that the Japanese Imperial military, including Abe's grandfather brought about the war and the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were punished for it.

Does that make sense to you?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

For those Japan haters here - fancy living in Russia instead? No, I didn't think so.

Who hates Japan? It's a great place, but that doesn't mean anyone should reserve criticism.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

A pipeline from Sakhalin in exchange for some fishing grounds?

But then local defence issues will stop it all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Cannot believe how uninformed many of the responses are. In fact there are countless cases of unresolved borders throughout the world, many due to colonial powers and the after effects of WW2. The Indo-China border, Indo-Burma border, Thai-Malaysia border are but a few examples. Also why do people only go back to the most recent wars. If you go back far enough, you will see that the whole of the Hokkaido area and these islands belonged to indigenous people until they were "imported" into a "country". The nation state itself has only been around since the 19th centruty so at some point predating this, all these lands belong to someone else. The fact that they have a new owner Russia is just a continuation of what has happened in the past.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Shifting borders are universal. Only recent bubbles and isolation may be blinding.

Apart from the everpresent holiness in Asia.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Whats that thing rightwingers here love to tell Japan,s neighbors when they bring up WW2 issues?.....oh yeah..... .

" It was over 70 years ago, get over it and move on "

Walk the walk....

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

It's a great place, but that doesn't mean anyone should reserve criticism.

My point was simple. Its very easy to sit comfortably in your European or American or Japanese home agreeing with the comments of one of the most aggressive/ depressed/ run down nations on earth, and criticise a nation who learned the hard way and embraced peace and ceased involvement in wars.

Russia preaching to Japan how they never got over WWII. Isn't that a bit rich? Like the Russians ever got over the world war.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

 a nation who learned the hard way and embraced peace and ceased involvement in wars.

Then why weave and dodge when it comes to being accountable?

An earlier comment from Kenji

Thats never reflected in history class in junior high.

Yeah our history classesis whitewashed rubbish about everything, thank God for the Internet..

Based on that testimony, absolutely nothing was learned.

And btw, it's because of an incredible passion that criticism is levied on Japan. Such a beautiful place with nice culture but a terrible track record when it comes to historical accountability truly deserve to do more.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

OH tigertiger

aggressive/ depressed/ run down

ideology has moved out of 20th Century;

now its the other heavyweights part into agg...and so on

and its a small globe with too many assets for too few

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Northern Territories are a huge economic drain on the Government and people of the Russian Federation with a population of 144 million, GDP similar to Spain.

The Government of Japan missile defence systems popping up left, right and centre. And to cap it all voting negativity or attempting to block any UN resolution that might be beneficial for Russia.

I guess the Beluga caviar will stay locked away when Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe visits for talks next week.. I wonder what the odds are that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will again be launching his toys over the floor in Moscow.

"Why is Japan the only country in the world that cannot accept the results of World War II in their entirety?"

I have a inkling the Governments of China or South Korea might be able to throw some light on that subject. Mr Lavrov.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I have a inkling the Governments of China or South Korea might be able to throw some light on that subject. Mr Lavrov

Who invaded whom exactly? The aggressor's never atoned like Germany did. Therefore, there's nothing to accept.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Excuse my misplaced sarcasm, Wallace Fred, to link both the Government of China and South Korea constant reminders to the present Government of Japan, alleged failures to show contrition is a tad ambiguous.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Lets See what life is like in SK. In spring my bike will go there.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan.

When Russians felt that losing Ukraine and Crimea was a moment of weakness and a mistake done in the past, what was their response?

They got Crimea back, part of Russian territory again! The country which has already too much land, needed more. While Japan with limited space should accept the results in which Russia keeps those Islands. They can't even devepole this regions, poor as hell. Waiting for foreign investment. What a joke!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

And the answer was ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@William77

NATO is obsolete now,and I hope someday the E.U. will leave such a silly alliance.

That's funny. Russia would completely agree with you.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/25/putin-new-russian-empire-ukraine

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If Japan is serious and there is ethnic Japanese living on these islands. They should send in Japanese defense forces. Lets see what the Russians will do, Send in their Navy or old Soviet junk with young Russian conscripts Get their whole fleet sunk.

Russia is a paper tiger, they cannot use nukes for they know the United States would respond.

Come on Japan, do it. Its your islands,

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

When will North and South America be given back to the rightful inhabitants?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Now becoming clear about Russian Government position on 4 Japanese Northern Territories Islands which Russia occupied since WWII end. The Russian won't return these Islands and now Russian Foreign Minister was asking Japan to accept these 4 Islands are now belonging to Russia.

Former Russian President and now PM Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev has visited to those Islands at least two times and now Russian has building military base on one of the Islands. There's no prospecting of returning these 4 Islands by peaceful negotiation with Russian Government. I believe the Russian PM Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev was architecture of military base built-up on one of 4 Islands and hard liner against returning these 4 Japanese Northern Territories Islands to it rightful owner Japanese people.

Japan needs to build-up and modernize its military to face Russian bullying in the north.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If Japan is serious and there is ethnic Japanese living on these islands. They should send in Japanese defense forces. Lets see what the Russians will do, Send in their Navy or old Soviet junk with young Russian conscripts Get their whole fleet sunk.

Russia is a paper tiger, they cannot use nukes for they know the United States would respond.

Come on Japan, do it. Its your islands,

Now now, thats pretty funny,.....you know they would get rolled by Russian military real quick, but nice sense of humour.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Lavrov is wrong:

"Japan votes not with us but against us on all the resolutions that interest Russia in the U.N.," he said.

A vote for the US now IS a vote for Russia. waamp waamp

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The U.S. would respond if Russia used nukes? Hellooo? You remember who POTUS is right now? A puppet with a large Russian hand stuck up his... "woohoo".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

William77:

The people of Gibraltar want to remain with the UK. Just like the people of the Southern Kurils want to remain with Russia.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

You have to have a gun to fight against gangrapers surrounding you

0 ( +1 / -1 )

WHY ?

°

Because Russia have enough space to triple its population and still feed her, when Japan have not. This is about the number of lifes to fed with a limited territory. There is a moment, Europe, Russia, and the United State will have to open their frontier and give territories to the new earth population.

Those Island use to be Japan and so are Japaneese. They were not colonised territories as I know of. This is Russia the colonisator here, and Russia who do not accept the result of the decolonised war : this is a crime against humanity. Those Island have to come back to Japan like all URSS colonised have to go back to they people, like all commonwealth countries have to go back to the real local people control. URSS have lost the war and have to give back those territories. We have enough on hands with the commonwealth and australia colonised war against humanity freedom to choose its future and the knowledge to be able to controled it.

°

NCM.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

War drums are rumbling..loudly. This isn't going to end like this. Too much unsettled in NE Asia. Too much mistrust. War will not solve anything - like always. Nationalism is deeply entrenched all over. I find no cool heads out there. Komatta

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

How easy it would be to move the handful of Japanese to Faraway Siberian lands. This would make the point of Japanese people on the islands needing to be brought back. We need a good statesman.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The answer is simple, because Japan lost the war and when Japanese is wrong , they cannot accept that fact. Have U not seen even in to-day's world, Japanese do not know, how to apologize from the heart ???.Really sad.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Russia is a corrupt, failing kleptocracy with a male life expectancy of only about 66 years and very low birth rate. Give them a few years to collapse upon themselves and they will be desperate to sell the islands back to Japan.

Of course, the question then arising will be how many Japanese will be still young enough to have any interest in buying them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

NONE of them accepted the terms of capitulation ratified after WWII that put them under the Soviet regime.

In the context of negotiations concerning the eventual handover of the disputed islands, Lavrov's comment should be understood to refer to the starting point of the handover. There are two basic starting positions to be taken here, which is either that the Russian's current presence is legal or illegal.

The Eastern European nations realized that they had to start with the premise that the current situation is legal, then negotiate to get what they want based on changed circumstances.

There was also a similar spat between Britain and China when Hong Kong was to be transferred.

Failure to obtain a concession of legality as a starting basis for the talks is not only a pride point, but a substantively dangerous situation, as proven by the judicial acts of a certain Supreme Court.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why is Russia the only country in the world asking this question?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Of course, the question then arising will be how many Japanese will be still young enough to have any interest in buying them.

Buying them? sending a couple of more Akita Dogs should be enough.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Through artful political negotiation Reagan /Thatcher with Gorbachev these eastern countries finally became sovereign and independent again.

Yeah lol, Thatcher, the saviour of East Europe. What were you smoking when you wrote this?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I have a great idea. Let Japan and Russia agree to put the island issue aside and sign a peace treaty. Then they can negotiate as official friends instead of official enemies.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OssanAmericaJan. 17 07:36 am JSTkurisupisuToday  07:20 am JST

Why should the Japanese accept anything Lavrov opines?

However, Japanese should understand that ‘to the victor, go the spoils’

And that is the reality....

That's the Russian thinking. The United States took and gave Okinawa back. Sure there are issues. But we didn't keep it claiming that was the "result of WWII".

Lavrov has room to talk. He isn't looking at the picture here.

After the war Japan rebuilt itself as a democracy. Their own constitution renounces war 'forever'. It says 'the right to belligerency is not recognized'. Due to its geographic location Japan has to trade with its neighbors in the Orient - including Red China. Trade, not steal.

The shrine of the warriors have the bodies of Hideiki Tojo and the other ministers of his fascist regime, and because of that Hirohito and Akihito have refused to attend ceremonies at that shrine ever since. That's because Tojo brought shame to Japan. Also there's the Hiroshima peace memorial which is an indicator horrors of war (nuclear or not) and the totalitarian ideologies and hatred and evils that lead to it.

I think Japan has 'accepted' the results of WWII very well, and these factors of the past 70-odd years show that the Japanese people can see that war is not an answer to anything. It's nothing but trouble. It's something to be avoided if you can do so.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

In 1956 Japan and the Soviet Union signed a document which stipulated that the USSR was willing to cede Shikotan and Habomai following a signed peace agreement, but Japan demanded all four islands.

If Japan had accepted the deal back in 1956, this wouldn't even be talked about today - but Japan in recent years has been claiming victim status over the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Soviet Union did not beat Japan. 

google "Kwantung Army". Soviet Union DID beat Japan's army. america nuked Japan's women and children only.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Starpunk, I think you must be referring to Yasukuni Jinja here:

"The shrine of the warriors have the bodies of Hideiki Tojo and the other ministers of his fascist regime, and because of that Hirohito and Akihito have refused to attend ceremonies at that shrine ever since."

Worth noting again however, that there are no bodies buried there.

(Just a list of names.)

So glad that these two Emperors have both had the courage to stand up against the right-wing elements and families of the problem characters.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Worth noting again however, that there are no bodies buried there.

(Just a list of names.)

My mistake. And yes I applaud those 2 Emperors for having the courage to stand up against a shameful part of Japan's history. Fascism, in any form always leads to hate, death, destruction, national shame, scarred relations with others, human rights violations, and a terrible legacy.

Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Franco, Pinochet, Peron, Milosevic and now Trump have all led their nations into humiliation and disgrace. And in the case of Japan (and other nations) warriors have an honorable status because they defend their nations and their national glory.  Not so with fascist leaders, even if they are military personnel. They only bring oppression, violence, wars, sham and shame.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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