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NZ, Japan boost security ties amid Russia, China concerns

37 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

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Ms Ardern was a Maoist as a college student and still holds leftist views. Will she stand up against China?

-19 ( +5 / -24 )

@Meiyouwenti

Don't know where that information about her being a Maoist comes from, but Arsern is quite openly progressive, or leftist. China isn't. It calls itself communist but is in many ways more similar to the authoritarian dystopia the Japanese right pines for.

The fact she talks to Kishida is a sign of pragmatism in face of possible threats like China's territory claims and, perhaps, an over-reliance on the US, especially given the recent AUKUS pact.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Japan and New Zealand agreed on Thursday to step up joint drills and seek a military information sharing agreement, which would be Tokyo's 10th.

japan does know that NZ has about two warships and usually one is undergoing repairs.? Access to 5 Eyes would good though, as it spies on all communications in every country in the world.

I just wish we could get cheap NZ cheese. In one year it went from ¥1800 to ¥2200 after TTTP.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

“As two democracies,

I stopped reading after that. She needs to spend more time in Japan.

-15 ( +7 / -22 )

Japan should ask show us the money. NZ are notorious for short arms deep pockets. At presents NZ don’t have any war aviation equipment and they learn to fly and practice using RAAF equipment ( borrowed) and are return broken or needing repairs. I used to meet Kiwis when working in the snow industry and I was always telling them not to ride on the road back to the resort. One Kiwi ask why I said the it annoys the locals plus it damage to skis and snow boards. This Kiwi stated back my ride is a rental so I don’t care. I pick this Kiwi one arvo from the resort and he was missing his snowboard. I ask and he stated I went under the rope got caught up in deep powder and lost my board. I told him that just cost you your ski pass and $900 for the board. He laugh and said I like to see that. I said mate you just told me what happened to I make sure the cost is tag onto your bill when you leave. He stop laughing and started going off. I stop the bus and kick him off. When it came for him to leave the boss ask me to drive him to the bus stop. I said he is bar from the bus and he and his family can walk I got good paying guest to look after you can sort the kiwi out. This is the typical attitude of kiwi I got To know over 4 seasons. Very tight.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

The might of the NZ navy alongside Japans, that will have them shaking in their boots!

Given it’s relative isolation and the huge coastline and EEZ it has to police/secure its armed forces are

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Rats, posted by accident, meant to continue to say the size of their armed forces are wholly inadequate to the job.

Nice island with a small population, the Chinese would soon change that!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Paper beats rock in the first picture.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@John

Then you don't know many kiwis.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Serious business aside, Ardern must have enjoyed her visit. She was welcomed by "Kiwi Brothers" mascots :)

Kiwi mascots dancing to somber strings welcome New Zealand PM to Japan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/21/kiwiws-jacinda-ardern-japan-tokyo-new-zealand/

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ardern is the most disliked Prime Minister in NZ's history. She is nothing other than a communist and there have been videos show up of her at communist rallies. She has no idea what she is doing, has been caught out dozens of times telling outright lies and she needs to step down and let someone with an IQ higher than a crayon take the lead.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

John-SanToday  08:07 am JST

Japan should ask show us the money. NZ are notorious for short arms deep pockets. At presents NZ don’t have any war aviation equipment and they learn to fly and practice using RAAF equipment ( borrowed) and are return broken or needing repairs. I used to meet Kiwis when working in the snow industry and I was always telling them not to ride on the road back to the resort. One Kiwi ask why I said the it annoys the locals plus it damage to skis and snow boards. This Kiwi stated back my ride is a rental so I don’t care. I pick this Kiwi one arvo from the resort and he was missing his snowboard. I ask and he stated I went under the rope got caught up in deep powder and lost my board. I told him that just cost you your ski pass and $900 for the board. He laugh and said I like to see that. I said mate you just told me what happened to I make sure the cost is tag onto your bill when you leave. He stop laughing and started going off. I stop the bus and kick him off. When it came for him to leave the boss ask me to drive him to the bus stop. I said he is bar from the bus and he and his family can walk I got good paying guest to look after you can sort the kiwi out. This is the typical attitude of kiwi I got To know over 4 seasons. Very tight.

This is all off-topic and will get removed pretty soon but, as a Kiwi myself, I'm sorry to hear you've had such bad experiences with some people at a ski resort. I think you'll find NZers have their bad apples like anywhere. Come to NZ and experience NZ hospitality. We have some great ski fields here, and some top-notch food, and while we won't win any awards for our fashion sense, we're renowned for our friendliness and generosity towards people from other nations.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

AlongfortherideToday  09:18 am JST

Ardern is the most disliked Prime Minister in NZ's history. She is nothing other than a communist and there have been videos show up of her at communist rallies. She has no idea what she is doing, has been caught out dozens of times telling outright lies and she needs to step down and let someone with an IQ higher than a crayon take the lead.

The ultimate contrarian huh? I look to talk in opposites sometimes too. :)

7 ( +8 / -1 )

With her majority in parliament, why has she not inforced a Maoist agenda? NZ like Estonia, Lithowayna, just don’t have the population to support an airforce nor a expansive navel fleet. But push comes to shove their army is able to fight well above its weight. Never underestimate a kiwi.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Ardern is nothing but a WEF charlatan (proof: she was part of their Young Leaders program along with Trudeau), a socialist taker with a phoney mask of "kindness" to cover her incompetence and mean spirit.

The Japanese should just treat her with the appropriate tatemae and send her on her way.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

And look, no masks for her and Kishida. But the poor schlubs dragged out to greet her are forced to cover up.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Readers, there is no need to post insulting comments. It makes you look petty.

Japanese and NZ cooperation makes a lot of sense just because they occupy a similar area, but I am not so sure that Russia or China are a particular threat to either country. In fact, I would say those are the two biggest powers that Japan/NZ should be cooperating with in the region, not cooperating against.

Russia has no cause to invade either country, unless there is a massive abused Russian diaspora in Hokkaido clamoring for annexation that I have never heard about.

China doesn't invade countries. They are non-interventionist and look to their own affairs. Look at the number of wars they've been involved in for the past 20-30 years.

Don't know where that information about her being a Maoist comes from, but Arsern is quite openly progressive, or leftist. China isn't.

China is a country in a transitory period, using markets under strict government supervision to build themselves up before transition to a full socalist economy. This is a concept that Lenin goes into a lot of depth on in The Tax in Kind, I strongly recommend reading it. State capitalism is material preparation for socialism, not some kind of subversion of socialism.

I am not so sure Ardern leans that way, but I could be wrong. If she did, I would expect her to be more open to cooperating with China as well.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

China is a country in a transitory period, using markets under strict government supervision to build themselves up before transition to a full socalist economy. This is a concept that Lenin goes into a lot of depth on in The Tax in Kind, I strongly recommend reading it. State capitalism is material preparation for socialism, not some kind of subversion of socialism.

I appreciate your take on this, but having been born in a country that was supposedly transitioning towards socialism and never did, I'm a bit dubious. Lenin's writings are very compelling, but things turned out very different after his death.

Either way, in this context, I wouldn't even consider Ardern a leftist. That's what she looks like if you think of neoliberal capitalism as the default. My point was mainly that insinuating she has nefarious intentions to collaborate with China shows a lack of understanding of what communism or socialism are as ideologies and how some of their elements are implemented in different environments.

For New Zealand, it makes way more sense to collaborate with Japan than with China right now. But I agree that collaboration with the region rather against it would be the right thing to do. But I'm sceptical as elites across Asia rely heavily on vilifying the "other".

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Yotomaya

I am admittedly maybe optimistic regarding more countries transitioning, it is possibly some degree of wishful tihnking. But honestly nothing I disagree with there, cheers.

She's left of a lot of world leaders right now, so I understand why the knee-jerk reaction of "oh no, communist" some people have, but I agree that she is still ultimately a neoliberal that doesn't have some secret socialist agenda.

I also am skeptical as to how likely regional cooperation actually is specifically for the reasons you gave, not to mention some bad history with almost every party. I think it is the correct path forward, but I don't know if it is the likely one.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Wasn't it just a few months ago that Ardern refused to say anything negative about the CCP? Or am I confused? Nope. Found where the UK spoke out against NZ's leader.

Of the Asian-eyes team members, NZ will be the first to ask for help, since they don't have much of any defense capability. Perhaps they should follow Costa Rica, a country without any military and very proud about it.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

theFuToday  11:28 am JST

Wasn't it just a few months ago that Ardern refused to say anything negative about the CCP? Or am I confused? Nope. Found where the UK spoke out against NZ's leader.

Of the Asian-eyes team members, NZ will be the first to ask for help, since they don't have much of any defense capability. Perhaps they should follow Costa Rica, a country without any military and very proud about it.

Adern has spoken plenty on China that is not positive including about human rights abuses and the Solomon Islands recently. NZ is a peace-loving nation that prefers dialogue over the aggressive approach we see from other Western nations.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

NZ like Estonia, Lithowayna, just don’t have the population to support an airforce nor a expansive navel fleet.

NZ spends less than 2% GDP on defense. If they hit that standard benchmark they would have an extra 1 billion USD in the yearly defense budget. F-16 unit cost is between 12 and 35 mill each depending on configuration. So even at the top end they could get 24 planes for 2 active squadrons for 800 Mil USD. Spread that acquisition over two or three or five years and they can have an active fixed wing Air Force and remain at 2% of GDP for defense. They could also get a nicely armed Corvette for the navy at $500 mill. Spreading the costs over a ten year period and NZ could increase their small navy and gain an active armed air force with an increase to 2% of GDP expenditure on Defense.

Look at all the hardware Israel has at 9 mill population and they have had such capacity for many decades, since they had the same population NZ has now. Not suggesting NZ get a huge military like Israel, only that it is possible for NZ to do much better for its own defense and for the alliances it is in.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

She is nothing other than a communist and there have been videos show up of her at communist rallies.

Then it ought to be a simple matter for you to produce videos of these, cough cough, "communist rallies" she attends. Waving the little yellow bs flag in the mean time.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I am not so sure that Russia or China are a particular threat to either country.

Japan and New Zealand themselves are sure of it.

In fact, I would say those are the two biggest powers that Japan/NZ should be cooperating with in the region, not cooperating against.

Democracies do not see cooperating with autocratic nations as a smart thing to do. They are fundamentally opposed in too many areas of concern, and cooperation with those nations strengthens them which is increasing their ability to oppress their people and grow their empires at the expense of those around them.

Opposing such empire building autocracies is the only logical course of action for freedom loving democracy's.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Peter, budget about $10,000 USD per flight hour for your notional F-16 wing and assume each pilot gets about 15-20 flight hours per month. The hallmark of western air forces are the amount of training they give their pilots. For US pilots about 80% of their monthly flight time is doing something tactical, not just boring holes in the sky or doing touch and go's at the airfield. They are flying low level practicing bomb and missile runs or practicing air combat. The purchase price of the aircraft is less than 30% of the total ownership cost. Flying and maintaining it is where you spend the majority of the money owning any kind of aircraft and especially so with combat jets.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

For the sake of comparison, during the Cold War Soviet Frontal Aviation and Soviet Air Defense Forces pilots got maybe 15 flight hours per year. To the best of my knowledge this is still the case today.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Perhaps they should follow Costa Rica, a country without any military and very proud about it.

"There have been no armed forces in Costa Rica since 1949, but police forces are usually used for defense purposes."

"The country, which is often referred to as "Switzerland of Central America", proclaimed its permanent and unarmed neutrality in 1983. In fact, Costa Rica is protected by the US."

https://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-31-countries-that-dont-have-armed-forces-2019-10#5-costa-rica-5

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China will never get involve in war with the west. China still have millions of it population living in the gutter. This alone is the reason for not allowing it citizens to own firearms. Plus you have 10 of million being subjected to confinement for weeks on end with showing no result in prevent their government made virus. I don't think the CCP can place gun in the hands of these people and tell them go there and kill the westerners with any confidence that they would not turn the gun back on the CCP. This is why China has never invaded another country. The CCP can not trust their own citizenship.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@John-San

This comment is extraordinary in how it conflates various issues. First, poverty has never been an obstacle to any empire expanding. Current examples include the US and, ahem, Russia. Second, China has one of the largest standing armies in the world, which means, clearly a part of the population is armed. I'm not sure about their gun laws, but the idea of civilians not being able to have guns because "the government doesn't trust their own citizenship" sounds something a pro-gun American would say. I mean, why do many European countries and Japan have strict gun laws? Finally, China has never invaded another country except Tibet and India in 1962, and all the other invasions preceding the time when China's people were fighting among themselves.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

NZ unlike Israel doesn’t get gift money from America or had a history of forgiveness money from Germany, but it does have a social service network. And no aggressive neighbors.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

China plays the long game and they won't give up on world domination. Democratic countries must use the right of reciprocity and prevent the CCP stealing technologies, including the purchase of land by CCP. Economic domination is the CCP's greatest ability.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

UdondashiToday  02:10 pm JST

China plays the long game and they won't give up on world domination. Democratic countries must use the right of reciprocity and prevent the CCP stealing technologies, including the purchase of land by CCP. Economic domination is the CCP's greatest ability.

China will likely not 'dominate' in our lifetimes. It's losing its economic and trade power, the majority of the world's powers do not support it and it is seen as a rogue nation in many ways. What is it going to dominate with? The treat of another pandemic?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Desert Tortoise

budget about $10,000 USD per flight hour for your notional F-16 wing and assume each pilot gets about 15-20 flight hours per month. The hallmark of western air forces are the amount of training they give their pilots. For US pilots about 80% of their monthly flight time is doing something tactical, not just boring holes in the sky or doing touch and go's at the airfield. They are flying low level practicing bomb and missile runs or practicing air combat. The purchase price of the aircraft is less than 30% of the total ownership cost.

I guess your trying to say it is expensive. Poorer nations have functioning fixed wing combat aircraft and NZ could find a way. Imagine how Ukraine would be fairing if it had not maintained combat ability in it's air force. The main pain is the immediate cost of purchase. How many of their force remain combat ready is up to them. They could purchale light attack planes like the BAE Hawk 209 and get out on the cheap for purchase costs and ongoing costs, or get something that can hold its own against opponents it may end up engaging. Or it could buy second hand goods to get older F-16's. There are options out there that NZ can afford without too much effort or pain. Or are you saying NZ is too poor a nation and cant afford any fixed wing combat planes?

On the modern battlefield NZ has no medium to long range anti air missiles except those on its two frigate navy vessels. The army has manpads. Any army with no air support on the battlefield and giving complete control of the sky to an enemy is not an army that will win battles let alone wars.

NZ needs an air force and army controlled med to long range SAM's and surface to surface missiles.

NZ has relied on Australia for its defense and maintained a minimal force to integrate with Australian forces on the ground and in the water. Much the same as Australia relies on the US. Aus is ramping up its capacities and getting new capacities to better defend itself and be of more use in integrating with US forces. NZ needs to do likewise and regain its lost capacity for limited air combat, and gain new capacities like long range stand off missiles.

Perhaps Japan can help.

A good defense is never going to be cheap, but when it is needed, nothing else will do.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Desert TortoiseToday  12:25 pm JST

She is nothing other than a communist and there have been videos show up of her at communist rallies.

Then it ought to be a simple matter for you to produce videos of these, cough cough, "communist rallies" she attends. Waving the little yellow bs flag in the mean time.

A simple google search will show I am telling the truth. I am in fact a Kiwi and these videos were in the media in NZ. Hands down the worst prime minister in NZ history. She said she wanted to help poverty in NZ. The only family she has pulled out of poverty is hers!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

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