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Okinawa governor to visit U.S. and tell Americans to stop building disputed military base

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By Mari Yamaguchi and Yuri Kageyama

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oh, good grief! And, they are gonna tell him to shut up and go home.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Okinawa governor to visit U.S. and tell Americans to stop building disputed military base

Like his predecessor he will more than likely be shuffled off to the office of some under-secretary of an under-secretary of some department that is not even close to anywhere near having anything to do with Okinawa.

He will be politely listened to and shown the door.

He is turning into Onaga 2.0, wasting tax money on trips that mean nothing.

He acknowledged he was not sure what he thought of the overall policy stances of President Donald Trump. A meeting with Trump is not on the trip agenda.

Trump is more than likely not even to know, nor care anything about Denny. So Denny shouldn't worry too much about what Trumps policies are, he doesn't know either until he thinks them up!

"I would like to make it a win-win situation," for Trump and Okinawa, said Tamaki

This comes across like an amateur talking, well Trump is one to so maybe there is something there.

This issue predates both Trump and Denny by 20 years. Denny is being naive if he thinks he can come up with a win-win for Okinawa and America, not Trump.

Denny has no authority to make any kinds of deals with the US government about anything to do with security measures. ZERO.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Maybe I grew up a little bit," he said with a smile.

Not enough evidently.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

that should go over well... not

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Power to Gov. Tamaki. Power to the people of Okinawa.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Why doesn’t he just admit that he is just going on a tax payer funded vacation?

Most of us are aware that he is not that high on the political food chain to even get a meeting with the guy who takes out the trash for the guy who works for the guy who works for another guy that knows someone who could relay his message!

The deal has already been made between the two nations and like it or not it’s going to happen.

Start focusing on ways to improve the local economy or even find a way to work alongside the military and government deal.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Sounds like someone wants to start a campfire and everyone sing kumbaya together!

This is where I can understand Japan's outlawing drugs

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Again, power to Gov. Tamaki. Anyone against your agenda is greed-motivated and simply brandishing a hooligan's logic.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

I do not understand the effectiveness of Okinawa governor's visit to U.S. Instead, buy one whole page of major American newspapers and put what they want to say there.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Either he is woefully naive. Or he 100% knows this is pointless and is only doing it to appease his constituents. I say 50/50 either way. Both sad.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

"It's Okinawa's geographic position that gives it a crucial role in the security of Japan and also in projecting defensive power in the East and South China Seas and now in the Indo-Pacific, and I don't see that role diminishing."

How does the building of a new Marine base at Henoko fit in this theory? Aren't the most active elements of Okinawa-based Marines to relocate to Guam, leaving support and command units only in Okinawa? If Okinawa's geographic position is so important, shouldn't the combat units be forward-deployed in Okinawa, not the way around?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

His career is obviously based on the Okinawa-base issue. Him knowing well why Japan has bases (being Japanese American like me) and choosing to insert himself into the issue.

Well Japan may very well in the future have many small defensive bases all around the country.

VOICE OF OKINAWA

Anyone against him is_____

Thats your statement? Sounds like something a closed minded hardliner would state don’t you think? Nah, I’m sure thats not how you think. lol

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Okinawa seems to be the only part of Japan that breeds real politicians. People who actually get up and do something about it. Ota, Onaga and now Denny. He could just go into apathy and kowtow to the LDP as most Japanese politicians do and some of the negative types who post here wish, but he's not going to sit down and take it.

I applaud him.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

If Okinawa's geographic position is so important, shouldn't the combat units be forward-deployed in Okinawa, not the way around?

To the casual reader they would think that Okinawa bases are all Marine and all on "stolen" property, sorry only Futenma.

The by far the largest base on Okinawa is Kadena Air Base, which is the US Air Force.

Oh where is the outrage against the Green Berets on Okinawa? Torii Station?

How about the Navy? White Beach, Camp Shields, Kadena and others?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

He is turning into Onaga 2.0, wasting tax money on trips that mean nothing.

Absolutely true - while I don't agree with his or Onaga's views on the FRF, I was at least hoping for a new playbook - but it seems his inexperience means he's just going to follow the same old pattern.

The FRF is being driven by the GOJ - it was their selection back in 2006 (and even before that). Any change in that option involves a re-think by the national government - given the resources they have already expended, that is very unlikely. 

Therefore, if the Governor wants the FRF project cancelled, the current LDP/Komeito coalition will have to be defeated and replaced with a Communist party government that also champions that view, and an abrogation of the US-Japan Security Alliance. Given voters have only given it 12 seats in the Diet, that seems unlikely, but that's where he must start.

The US, who understands this is a GOJ decision, and as related above, will give him a polite reception with a lower ranking official. Nothing accomplished except maybe some site seeing...

2 ( +5 / -3 )

He is also 100% speaking to Japan.

You know what happens if you to America, grab a mic, and start railin on about the injustice of Okinawa?

What exactly do you think Americans have been preconditioned to think towards this? Immediately Pearl Harbour, WWII, the Bomb, and the aftermath come to mind. Not thinga Americans are apologetic for. I would like to see him on a stage saying that, but I know that speech isn’t being written.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

What a joke.

Random US politician: "So Mr. Tamaki, what you are telling me is that you've been blocking construction of a base, that I've never heard of, for 20 years, wasting our time and money, and you want my help to continue doing so?"

Tamaki: "Yes. We want you to build peace not bases."

Random US politician: "Thanks for coming. The exit is to your left. Next!"

2 ( +6 / -4 )

If you can't get your own govt to stop,how the hell you gonna get the U.S. to say, "no worries,we will?"

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Simple solution. Replace all US military in Okinawa with a few missile silos. That will take care of the geographic challenge, and put up a Donald fence, except this one would be nuclear. Let the Okinawans decide.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Visiting the USA is a waste of money. What most people don't understand is that you can't just move part of the Marine Corps off Okinawa, but move all of it since it is a team. Most Americans are more than willing to pull all of our military out of Japan. All it takes is the GOJ to say the US military isn't needed anymore.

Just don't call the US when China claims only half of the Ryukyu chain as historically theirs. The funny part will be they are only taking back half of the Ryukyus to show they aren't being unreasonable!

Trump was quoted as saying: "what's a Denny? I thought it was a restaurant?"

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

You will be laughed and and told to go back to your country. Just go to Hawaii and have a nice time.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

This article makes me laugh. Denny is as "bicultural" as a McDonalds Big Mac. He knows nothing of American culture and doesn't even speak the language. As a true bi-cultural native (born in Okinawa and raised in Okinawa & America), I know that he will be more of a laughing stock with his naive attitude of making a difference in the minds of US politicians. There is simply no political gain for them. He has no power to influence the GOJ in any of their decision making. This would be like the Governor of California coming to Japan and telling Abe he needs to ease up on Marijuana.

BertieWoosterToday 08:09 am JST Okinawa seems to be the only part of Japan that breeds real politicians.

Bertie ol boy, Okinawa politicians know nothing except the anti-base issue. They sit by as China "invests" all over the island and floods this beautiful island with noisy, rude tourist who trample everything like a herd of cattle. While it is true that the bases are no longer the main source of income for the island directly, Okinawa receives millions of dollars in economic development incentives for hosting the bases.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Well he does sound as a refreshingly genuine nice guy, feature lacking in most Jpoliticians , especially the LDP drones bar a few exceptions. ..and he is pushing the issue on which he won the election, so he owes that to the people that elected him ( no doubt he sees it as a way to increase media exposure to the issue since the LDP / Abe govt. overturned his Henoko work suspension order a few days ago.) , futile his trip may be.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

8TToday 09:09 am JST You will be laughed and and told to go back to your country.

Well, not to his face...The secretary to the undersecretary to the undersecretary will ask him if he is done with his tea and show him the door. I doubt he will meet with anyone who has any real input into anything.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Gov. Tamaki might consider getting a DNA test, if he wants to find his father. Couldn't hurt, could it?

On the issue of a US military presence in Japan, in general, and on Okinawa, in particular, "build peace instead" is not a viable plan, and demonstrates the epitome of naivete. As was demonstrated when South Korea was last invaded, the US military presence in the area of East Asia has had a positive effect, on balance. There is common ground in the desire for peace, but disarming and hoping for the best, if history is any teacher, will not work. In fact, disarming will achieve the exact opposite of what Gov. Tamaki desires -- peace.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Most Americans are more than willing to pull all of our military out of Japan. All it takes is the GOJ to say the US military isn't needed anymore.

I don’t have a horse in this race either way, but you’re silly if you think the Pentagon won’t absolutely insist on staying in japan. Strategically there is nowhere better positioned to deal with China, the Koreas, and Russia.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

US government will only negotiate with Japanese National government. Not a politician from a minor part of Japan. Sorry Denny, you will just be a private citizen in USA. Okinawa voters will be angry about Denny's behaviour.

With the extreme dangers in the region, to protect Japan USA will never leave Okinawa.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

thepersonIamnow,

If you demand a new base be built at all our cost just for the sake of guarding your own vested interests, that's greed. If you keep demanding it without giving any convincing reasons or simply countering it by saying I am a closed-minded person, that's nothing but a hooligan's logic.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Good luck trying to get Americans energized to support the cause. Very few can find Okinawa on a map. Even fewer have a political ideology that would align with that desire and few would actually have the drive to take action in support.

Every politician Onaga talked to will say the same line. “Henoko is the only solution. Talk with Tokyo about it.”

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Again, power to Gov. Tamaki. Anyone against your agenda is greed-motivated and simply brandishing a hooligan's logic.

This is the beginning of the stages of grief. The anger and frustration of someone who knows they’ve been defeated

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Again, power to Gov. Tamaki. Anyone against your agenda is greed-motivated and simply brandishing a hooligan's logic.

actually he has no power as the J courts have ruled the base move legal and base blocking illegal, so if Tamaki doesnt like it he should step down or move to another prefecture/country

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If you keep demanding it without giving any convincing reasons or simply countering it by saying I am a closed-minded person, that's nothing but a hooligan's logic.

the convincing reason is the J courts have ruled the move legal, if you cant or wont agree to the laws of Japan then sorry thats nothing but a hoologans logic, the base will be moved to Heneko may be time for people to come to live with this fact.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I really like this guy. Pretty down to earth with a good sense of humor. But good luck to him on his US tour trying to convince a lot of people who don't care (nor know much) about this issue.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

the base will be moved to Heneko may be time for people to come to live with this fact.

Correct. Denny should be negotiating the best deal he can get with Abe, and believe me Abe would be willing to pour billions of yen into the Okinawa economy if Onaga 2.0 would cooperate.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Okinawa seems to be the only part of Japan that breeds real politicians. People who actually get up and do something about it. Ota, Onaga and now Denny.

Pray tell just WHAT has any of them done for the people of Okinawa besides spend their tax money? Come on?

Name ONE thing they have done beyond give their middle finger to the nation government Japanese style?

Also if wasting money, leaving nothing of consequence behind, barking up the wrong tree, and biting the hand that feeds you, is a sign of a "real politician" then damn you are right on the mark!

Let's not forget that Denny is an entertainer turned puppet politician and the people who are backing him are pulling his strings and leading him around by nose.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Just build a massive fake island next to Okinawa, like Dubais fake islands and Odaiba, problem solved.

I

2 ( +2 / -0 )

He is turning into Onaga 2.0, wasting tax money on trips that mean nothing.

I'm afraid it may be so. But that doesn't mean his delivering of Okinawa's sincere voice directly to U.S. citizens is nothing insignificant.

Absurdity in a demand for the Henoko new base construction rests with Washington and that fact wouldn't be effaced however Gov.Tamaki may be received by Washington.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

'm afraid it may be so. But that doesn't mean his delivering of Okinawa's sincere voice directly to U.S. citizens is nothing insignificant.

Sincere? Making him into a saint before he is dead? No thank you. It is only significant when he bends down an apologies for wasting money and being unable to keep his promise as he falls on his sword!

Absurdity in a demand for the Henoko new base construction rests with Washington and that fact wouldn't be effaced however Gov.Tamaki may be received by Washington.

Already coming up with excuses for his failures before they happen? How kind of you!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Yubaru,

But for Washington's recalcitrant and mindless demand for this strategically poor and financially wasteful base construction, Okinawa wouldn't squander so much money on U.S. base issues. If you are so kindly mindful of Okinawa's finance, you should cooperate with us in efforts to reduce this excessive U.S. military presence.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Good. Pack them off to Guam, which is a US colomial outpost.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@ Yubaru

Pray tell just WHAT has any of them done for the people of Okinawa besides spend their tax money? Come on?

Onaga and Denny are doing exactly what the Okinawan people have asked and elected them for:

to give Okinawa a democratic voice and to stop the discriminating and anti-democratic treatment of Okinawa by the central government and the US.

After Onaga's death it became very clear how respected he was by the overwhelming majority of the Okinawan people, so obviously you are missing some points that are essential for most Okinawan people.

Either you are out of touch with what is happening in Okinawa or your own agenda makes it impossible for you to understand the sentiment of the Okinawan people.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Hero for the suffering people.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

CrucialS,

This is the beginning of the stages of grief. The anger and frustration of someone who knows they’ve been defeated

So you're discussing the issue from the standpoint of victors in World War Two? And you think we're discussing it as someone who is showing symptoms of depression because Japan lost the war? Nonsense. 

That war ended in 1945 and the ensuing occupation is supposed to have ended in 1952 in mainland Japan when the San Francisco Peace Treaty took effect and in 1972 in Okinawa when it was returned to Japan. Despite these facts, the U.S. occupation forces continued to be present, renaming itself as USFJ, keeping bases almost intact and, in some cases, strengthening base functions even more.

Why is this possible? It's because of the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty and the concomitant Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). that guarantee it. In other words, these treaties are none other than a makeshift mechanism to facilitate the post-war occupation regime to continue forever.

If the U.S. were ever able to deny it, they could set a specific time limit for their military's presence, but will they?

Can you give a reasonable counter-argument on this, instead of just saying we are at the first stage of depression?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Kenji. Ever heard of Guam?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The reason the Americans are in Okinawa is to protect us from China and also to protect Taiwan, in addition close proximity to the arising issue of Senkaku and the Chinese navy there, why else are they on Okinawa? for coconuts?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ryu Higa,

This would be like the Governor of California coming to Japan and telling Abe he needs to ease up on Marijuana

Sounds like a nice analogy

But suppose the Japanese government is deeply involved in this Marijuana case by conniving traffickers to smuggle and produce the drug in Golden State and the U.S. government always turn a deaf ear to the state's complaints, wouldn't the Californian Governor come to Japan and tell Abe to address the situation?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Kenji Fujimori

The reason the Americans are in Okinawa is to protect us from China and also to protect Taiwan, in addition close proximity to the arising issue of Senkaku and the Chinese navy there, why else are they on Okinawa? for coconuts?

I've been arguing on various threads on JT that the U.S. Marines are stationed in Okinawa not necessarily to protect "us", so that your opinion is in diagonal opposition to mine. The reason why I think so is as follows:

Firstly, the most active elements of Okinawa-based Marines, said to be about 8,000 troops, are to relocate to Guam, leaving in Okinawa only support and command units; Secondly, Japan and the U.S. have struck a deal that. the primary responsibility to deal with contingencies over outlying islands rest with JSDF and not with U.S. forces (Marines) stationed in Japan.

Can you explain then why it's necessary to maintain the function of Futenma in Okinawa the same as ever, so that the Futenma-to-Henoko relocation is of absolute necessity?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

VoiceofOkinawa I do agree with what you say, but when this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfIvBf6W_f0

and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVn_7Yu5Fsw is going on, then the emphasis on Okinawa is there to protect us.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

After Onaga's death it became very clear how respected he was by the overwhelming majority of the Okinawan people, so obviously you are missing some points that are essential for most Okinawan people.

Overwhelming? 55% of those who voted, voted for Denny, I just knew someone was going to come along and make this ludicrous comment. THank you for not disappointing us.

64% of the electorate or so voted of that 55% voted for Denny, do the math, that is far from the "overwhelming" majority of Okinawa's 1.4 million people. He got nearly 300,000 votes, and you call that overwhelming?

Right....

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Either you are out of touch with what is happening in Okinawa or your own agenda makes it impossible for you to understand the sentiment of the Okinawan people.

Okinawan people...hmmm, how do you differentiate between Okinawan's and Japanese?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The respect that the Okinawan people showed for Onaga has not that much to do with the election of Denny. It was apparent all over the island, in the media, in public events, in gatherings and in discussions one could hear everywhere.

If you didn't get that than I would say you're either not living in Okinawa or you're living in your own Okinawan reality.

The outpour of admiration for Onaga was so obvious that I was genuinely surprised as his popularity as a politician was starting to fade.

64% of the electorate or so voted of that 55% voted for Denny, do the math, that is far from the "overwhelming" majority of Okinawa's 1.4 million people. He got nearly 300,000 votes, and you call that overwhelming?

The overwhelming majority of the Okinawan people are against the relocation of Furenma within the prefecture. All polls ever conducted on this question show this (75% to 85% are against the construction of a new base in Henoko), the public discussion in Okinawa shows this, and even the gubernatorial elections, where of course more complex topics play a role, show this.

If you have any evidence for noteworthy support amongst Okinawan citizens for the relocation of Futenma to Henoko show it to us, otherwise your comments remain an unsubstantiated personal view.

Okinawan people...hmmm, how do you differentiate between Okinawan's and Japanese?

Okinawan's are citizens of the prefecture called Okinawa. Beyond that a majority of the Okinawan citizens also see themselves as a cultural distinct minority within the nation state of Japan, especially those born in or with family ties to Okinawa.

Any problem with that definition?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

If you didn't get that than I would say you're either not living in Okinawa or you're living in your own Okinawan reality.

You should look in the own Okinawan reality mirror. I've been here for years and your whole post misrepresents the truth of this island.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Give 'em hell, Denny! We're all with you!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Give 'em hell, Denny! We're all with you!

Yeah the 55% of the 65% of Okinawans who bothered to vote for you are all with you Denny! So, yeah... everybody... kinda!

But that doesn't mean his delivering of Okinawa's sincere voice directly to U.S. citizens is nothing insignificant.

Yes, it pretty much does mean that. The average US citizen doesn't give a damn about the location of a US military base on an island of Japan that they couldn't even point to on a map. It is a waste of Okinawa's money and US politicians' time.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The outpour of admiration for Onaga was so obvious that I was genuinely surprised as his popularity as a politician was starting to fade.

You don't understand Okinawa nor Japanese, this was all AFTER he died. Keep that in mind.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ CrucialS

I've been here for years and your whole post misrepresents the truth of this island.

How exactly?

@ Yubaru

You don't understand Okinawa nor Japanese, this was all AFTER he died. Keep that in mind.

At least I stick to verifiable information while you chose to ignore the obvious reality in Okinawa whenever it suits your narrative and that happens quite often.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

extanker,

Yeah the 55% of the 65% of Okinawans who bothered to vote for you are all with you Denny! So, yeah... everybody... kinda!

You seem to be making fun of the last Okinawa gubernatorial election in which Denny Tamaki overwhelmingly won over his opponent backed by the LDP/New Komeito coalition government. You suggest "the 55% of the 65% of Okinawans" are a minority in the total population of Okinawa.

But do you know about the reality of voter turnout for the 2016 U.S. Presidential election? It was 48.62%. Compared with Okinawa's voter turnout 63.24%, this is very, very low indeed. In the 2016 U.S. presidential election, Candidate Donald Trump garnered 46.4% of the total votes (128,838,341) while candidate Hillary Clinton garnered 48.8% (https://edition.cnn.com/election/2016/results/president). Trump won the Predisency anyway in spite of these facts. Of  course, you know the reason.

Can you make fun of the results of Okinawa's gubernatorial election?. If you do, you are like the pot calling the kettle black.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

You seem to be making fun of the last Okinawa gubernatorial election in which Denny Tamaki overwhelmingly won over his opponent backed by the LDP/New Komeito coalition government. You suggest "the 55% of the 65% of Okinawans" are a minority in the total population of Okinawa.

Here we go, another jumping on the "overwhelming" bandwagon of misinformation!

55% of the vote, roughly 300,000 people.

Population of Okinawa. Roughly 1,400,000.

FACT; 55% of the 65% of people who voted are in fact a minority of the total population of Okinawa. 1.1 MILLION didnt vote for him!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oh and by the way, he didnt even get a majority of all eligible voters either!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yubaru,

Here are actual statistics:

There are about 1.2 million registered voters (or more precisely 1,158,602) as of 9/20/2018, according to Okinawa Prefecture Election Administration Commission, of whom 720,210 voted in the September 30 gubernatorial election..

Votes Tamaki garnered: 396,632. Percentage of votes: 55.1% (396,632 / 720,210 = 55.07)

Votes Sakima garnered: 316,458. Percentage of votes: 43.9% (316,458 / 720,219 = 43.9)

Number of abstainers: 438,392

Abstainers are the people who entrust their voting rights to whoever may win. Therefore, you can either count them together with Tamaki's votes or completely disregard them and count only those who actually went to polling stations.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Abstainers are the people who entrust their voting rights to whoever may win. Therefore, you can either count them together with Tamaki's votes or completely disregard them and count only those who actually went to polling stations.

Yep, meaning that Denny did not get the majority! Thank you for confirming that!

In fact over double the number didnt vote for him. And you still call it overwhelming?

New Math I guess.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yubaru,

Telling the truth, I thought before the September gubernatorial election that Tamaki may be forced to fight a head-to-head race because his opponent Sakima was backed outright by the LDP/New Komeito coalition with abundant election funds probably poured into his campaign. Both parties sent big shot politicians one after another to support Sakima, one of whom was permanently stationed until the election day.

So Tamaki's garnering of 396,632 votes was really a happy surprise to me. Compared with Takeshi Onaga's 368,200 votes in the 2014 election, Tamaki's 396,632 votes were really amazing and so  his  election can be described as an overwhelming win.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@voice

First, 55% of anything is not an "overwhelming majority" no matter how badly you try to spin it.

Second, I never brought up the US election, so why did you? You obviously don't understand, or maybe even know about, how the American electoral college works, or the definition of a Constitutional Republic (what the US is) versus a standard democracy, which is how a candidate can still win an election without the majority of the popular vote.

But yes, you and the other folks continually spouting about how everyone in Okinawa is behind Tamaki when only a fraction of voters bothered to even turn out to vote, is just plain false. The fact is, 368,000 votes out of 1.4 million citizens is rather pathetic. It actually shows that the people of Okinawa in reality don't really care one way or the other.

So much for your narrative.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Second, I never brought up the US election, so why did you? You obviously don't understand, or maybe even know about, how the American electoral college works, or the definition of a Constitutional Republic (what the US is) versus a standard democracy, which is how a candidate can still win an election without the majority of the popular vote

He knows, dont let it fool you!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Abstainers are the people who entrust their voting rights to whoever may win. Therefore, you can either count them together with Tamaki's votes or completely disregard them and count only those who actually went to polling stations.

How in the heck did you come up with this logic? (why do I even ask that...) Why would you count them as Tamaki's votes?? They don't care what happens with the base or they would've voted for him.

There are 438 THOUSAND people on Okinawa who do not care AT ALL about US military bases. If they did, they would have voted, since it seems that's the only issue anyone cares about on Okinawa.

What that means, is that there is a whopping 755 THOUSAND Okinawans who are OK with the base situation as it is. Now THAT is an overwhelming majority.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What that means, is that there is a whopping 755 THOUSAND Okinawans who are OK with the base situation as it is. Now THAT is an overwhelming majority.

Been saying all along, apathy about the situation is the true winner here!

(Well said by the way!)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

extanker,

Whether you take 55.1% of votes as an overwhelming victory or not and whether 43.9% as a complete defeat or not depend on where you stand. 

Adjectives are used according to how you look at the reality relative to you.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Whether you take 55.1% of votes as an overwhelming victory or not and whether 43.9% as a complete defeat or not depend on where you stand. 

You know what, in the end it wont matter the facilities and ladnfill will be built and you will have to find a new bone to pick!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Whether you take 55.1% of votes as an overwhelming victory or not and whether 43.9% as a complete defeat or not depend on where you stand. 

No it does not. An ‘overwhelming victory’ is not a win by a mere 5%. No matter how you look at it or where you stand, that is not the definition of overwhelming victory. Period. Full stop.

In fact, it is barely a victory at all, especially considering the dismal voter turn out on the island that proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the base issue isn’t anywhere near as important to Okinawans as you claim it to be

But as Yubaru said, the work will be completed, and in the end, the true overwhelming victory will not be yours.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

extanker,

An ‘overwhelming victory’ is not a win by a mere 5%.

No, it's not a mere 5%, as you say. The differential of percentages both candidates won was 11.2%. That's a big win for a winner, isn't it?

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As for abstainers:

Abstainers are the people who are willingly accept an election result whatever that may be. So you can incorporate their number to Tamaki's votes. You must also know there are various reasons why abstainers abstain their voting rights.

Apparently, there were a large number of LDP- or New Komeito-registered people who felt a dilemma between official party lines imposed on them and their own preference about the Futenma issue. Such people must have abstained to rid themselves of this heart-breaking psychology

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no, 11.2% is still not anywhere near a ‘big win’. Do you hear yourself?

as for abstainers, if they cared about the base issue they’d have voted on it. They didn’t so thats a clear signal that it does not matter to 460 thousand Okinawans.

Combine that with the ones who voted against Tamaki, and that’s a clear signal how Okinawans really feel about the US presence there and why Tokyo is ignoring you and the rest of the minority.

Keep trying to spin your losses however you want, they’re still losses. Tamaki is spinning his wheels while the base gets built and you’ll keep moving your goal posts.

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no, 11.2% is still not anywhere near a ‘big win’. Do you hear yourself?

I'm pretty sure that in politics, anything over a 10% win between two candidates is considered a big win.

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extanker,

as for abstainers, if they cared about the base issue they’d have voted on it. They didn’t so thats a clear signal that it does not matter to 460 thousand Okinawans.

Let me repeat:

Abstainers are the people who are willingly to accept an election result whatever it may be. So you can incorporate their number to winner Tamaki's votes.

You must also know there are various reasons why people abstain their voting rights.

There must have been a number of LDP- and New Komeito-registered party members who couldn't simply follow what the party headquarters dictated to them: Vote for a party-suppported candidate. So they abstained to free themselves from the dilemma between a party line and their own personal preference.

You can't subsume their number under loser Sakima’s votes.

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Abstainers are the people who are willingly to accept an election result whatever it may be. So you can incorporate their number to winner Tamaki's votes.

Um, that's not a logical argument. You could just as equally (and incorrectly) say that their number could be incorporated into the loser's votes.

Abstainers abstain. Their numbers don't count in any direction. They have chosen to leave the decision up to others.

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Strangerland,

Um, that's not a logical argument. You could just as equally (and incorrectly) say that their number could be incorporated into the loser's votes.

If Sakima had won, of course, you could incorporate their number into Sakima's votes. What illogicality is there?

 

.

.

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Strangerland,

You could just as equally (and incorrectly) say that their number could be incorporated into the loser's votes*.

But if you incorporate their number into Sakima's 316,458 votes, you end up with concluding Sakima won the election.  The math must be Sakima's 316,458 votes plus the negative number of abstainers' votes.

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But if you incorporate their number into Sakima's 316,458 votes, you end up with concluding Sakima won the election.

Again, did you not read my post? You know, where I pointed out how incorporating the posts into Sakima's count would be incorrect? You know, right there were you even quoted it? It's in the part where it says *You could just as equally (and incorrectly) say that their number could be incorporated into *the loser's votes.

Incorporating the votes into Sakima's count would be just as illogical and incorrect as incorporating them into the winner's votes. It's like saying 'well, we can also count the votes of the ancestors, and hey, let's predict what their descendants would vote too, and tie them into the vote. I mean, these things never happened, so they must count negatively against the loser'.

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Strangerland,

You can't incorporate the number of abstainers into either a winner's or loser's votes. I agree. And so let's disregard them in the first place and count only actual votes cast at poll stations..

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You can't incorporate the number of abstainers into either a winner's or loser's votes. I agree. And so let's disregard them in the first place and count only actual votes cast at poll stations..

You mean exactly what I've been saying all along?

Abstainers abstain. Their numbers don't count in any direction.

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extanker posted:

as for abstainers, if they cared about the base issue they’d have voted on it. They didn’t so thats a clear signal that it does not matter to 460 thousand Okinawans.

Does it happen in the U.S that companies force their employees to vote for particular candidates? But it does happen here often matter-of-factly. Thus, in the last gubernatorial election in Okinawa, conservative-minded CEOs must have ordered their employees to vote for Tamaki's opponent in spite of employees themselves.

This may be another reason why many registered voters didn't go to poll stations on that day, abstaining their voting rights. So extanker is wrong if he thinks a large number of abstainers is "a clear signal that it (the construction of a new base in Henoko) does not matter to 460 thousand Okinawans."

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Does it happen in the U.S that companies force their employees to vote for particular candidates? But it does happen here often matter-of-factly. Thus, in the last gubernatorial election in Okinawa, conservative-minded CEOs must have ordered their employees to vote for Tamaki's opponent in spite of employees themselves.

This may be another reason why many registered voters didn't go to poll stations on that day, abstaining their voting rights.

This is hilarious. How many different excuses are you going to come up with? Every time someone backs you into a corner, you make up something new. This election clearly showed the majority of Okinawans are not concerned with the base issue. Are you going to blame Russian collusion next?

You're going to have to find something else to protest soon because it's happening.

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@strangerland

I'm pretty sure that in politics, anything over a 10% win between two candidates is considered a big win.

I have not been able to find any definitive answer on what is considered a 'big win' in an election, but if you look at his previous posts, he started as claiming Tamaki won with an 'overwhelming victory' and when that was proven false, his claim was whittled down to just a 'big win', which I still don't think 11% of the meager voter turnout would be considered a very big win.

Now you see how he's suddenly claiming that many people were forced to vote by their bosses? He reaches all over the place and can't even keep his story straight.

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extanker,

Let me present the cool facts once more;

Votes Tamaki garnered: 396,32. Percentage of votes: 55.1% (396,632 / 720,210 = 55.07%)

Votes Sakima garnered: 316,458. Percentage of votes: 43.9% (316,458 / 720,219 = 43.9%)

Number of abstainers: 438,392 (61%)

A lot of mainstream media, including the New York Times, reported it was a big win for Tamaki, if not an overwhelming one.

Now, you take issue with the number of abstainers and claim that not all Okinawans are necessarily opposed to the new base construction, thus intimating that the construction must go ahead.

So in your view, abstainers can be incorporated into Sakima's votes. I have a different interpretation of abstainers from you, which I presented in my posts above. The LDP and New Komeito coalition couldn't mobilize all block voters to vote for Sakima, who I believe abstained their voting rights by not going to the polls and unwillingly voting for Sakima in spite of directions from above.

Thus, it's possible to subsume abstainers under Tamaki the winner's votes whereby it isn't very far-fetched to say that Tamaki won it overwhelmingly.  Certainly, it was a big win.

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During the campaign of Okinawa gubernatorial election, Tokyo and Washington must have been in close contact with each other with Tokyo assuring Washington that Sakima would win against Tamaki comfortably. If the LDP/New Komeito coalition could mobilize block voters as well as business-affiliated voters, they were correct in counting the votes. But they were off the mark completely. They counted their chickens before they've hatched.

By the way, Tamaki will visit the U.S. from 11 to 15 this month, that is less than one month after he took office as governor. Will Washington give short shrift to his U.S. visit and let him meet only low-ranking officials as they did ignominiously to Onaga, his predecessor?

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By the way, Tamaki will visit the U.S. from 11 to 15 this month, that is less than one month after he took office as governor. Will Washington give short shrift to his U.S. visit and let him meet only low-ranking officials as they did ignominiously to Onaga, his predecessor?

Yes, because as the US has told Onaga, the base issue is between Okinawa and Tokyo. Tamaki is choosing to ignore that fact, just like his predecessor did and waste his constituents' tax money on a pointless trip to cry to people who don't care.

So in your view, abstainers can be incorporated into Sakima's votes. I have a different interpretation of abstainers

You can have whatever view you want. I don't believe that abstainers can be combined with Sakima's votes, (unlike how you tried to combine them with Tamaki's) but the fact is, presented with the chance to vote against the US bases, 468 THOUSAND Okinawans chose instead to stay home because they did not think it was important enough to bother with. They spoke with the absence of their vote. It's really that simple, despite what you repeatedly try so hard to get others to believe.

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You think 438,392 abstainers (38% of 1,158,602 registered voters) chose not to go to the polls "because they did not think it was important enough to bother with"? The reasoning, "because they did not think it was important enough to bother with," is your own interpretation of the election result. But I have different interpretations, which I mentioned more than once in my posts above.

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