politics

Suga, Putin agree to promote territorial talks based on 1956 accord

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At least they can exchange gifts of vodka and shouchu if nothing else.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I wish I could have a job where results didn’t count...

2 ( +8 / -6 )

I wish I could have a job where results didn’t count...

And on top of that hailed by the media.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

China's rise is squeezing Russia geopolitically and financially (even if Russia doesn't know so). Russia is desperate now, hit with covid, a cold reception from Europe, more trouble in the middle east, energy export revenues down and NO ability to print money without affecting inflation. Suga is in the driver's seat to get result.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

It was quite generous of Russia to have agreed to give Japan two island which Japan disclaimed sovereignty over in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

You'd think Suga saw under Abe what little was gained in the 28 times that Putin and he met up.Just move on.Russia'll never give up the isles and that's that.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

This is an old tale about the bear ripping the crane’s head off.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Hours before the talks, Russia announced the start of military exercises on Kunashiri and Etorofu, involving more than 1,500 personnel and 200 machine guns and artillery pieces.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato said Japan was given advance notice of the drills last Thursday...

The sting of the Russian military drill in the "Japanese" islands had to be diplomatically dampened for the citizenry's consumption.

I personally doubt there was a call to Putin at all, let alone all the reported verbiage. All hats no cattle.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Suga is in the driver's seat to get result.

You be in the driver seat and still be unable to move the car an inch. Just like putting a kid in the drivers seat won't move the car. We were told We were told Abe was in the drivers seat with the same lame arguments you are making here and we all know the car didn't move an inch.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

It was quite generous of Russia to have agreed to give Japan two island which Japan disclaimed sovereignty over in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

The dispute boils down to whether or not the four islands closest to Japan are considered to be part of the Kuriles Russia is granted in the Yalta and Cairo agreements or part of Japan "and such minor islands as we shall determine" as those had always been under Japanese sovereignty and were never under Russian control until the end of WWII. It is emphatically not as clear cut as you imply.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

China's rise is squeezing Russia geopolitically and financially (even if Russia doesn't know so). Russia is desperate now, hit with covid, a cold reception from Europe, more trouble in the middle east, energy export revenues down and NO ability to print money without affecting inflation. Suga is in the driver's seat to get result.

There is an old saying that Russia is never as strong as it appears and Russia is never as weak as it appears. Mr. Putin is an old KGB thug. You can never trust anything he says or turn your back on him for a second.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Personally, I fully disagree. 1956 the Soviets sat at the table , not Russia, and they didn’t even sign it, if I am right informed. What really has to be discussed is the whole package, starting or let’s say going back exactly with the situation before the USSR was established, summer 1917 for example. It is in reality about the southern part of Karafuto/Sachalin and the whole Kurils islands chain. A rather wider spectre than what is intended to discuss nowadays. For better understanding you may refer to old maos and timelines or you can even very easily start with those cheap atlas brochures sold at 100yen-stores for a first impression.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

P. SmithToday  07:38 am JST

It was quite generous of Russia to have agreed to give Japan two island which Japan disclaimed sovereignty over in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

Japan gave up sovereignty of the 4 islands at the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty. However, nobody said they should be given to the USSR who didn't even bother to attend or sign.

For this reason no peace treaty exists between Japan and Russia(USSR), and the 4 islands in question are still considered Japanese territory under Russian Administration(occupation) by the United States, United Kingdom and the European Parliament.

Nothing more than just one more post-WWII Soviet land grab and a desperate attempt to stick it to the U.S. for having taken Japan first in WWII.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

It should also be noted that there was always a definition gap between the USSR and other WWII allies regarding the term "Kurile Islands". The 4 islands in question became Japanese territory by a negotiated Treaty between Russia and Japan in 1855. They were never taken by force and therefore exempt from WWII Allied Declarations. However at the last minute, Stalin added "Southern" to the Kuriles to justify the Soviet invasion in the days between Japan's declaration of unconditional surrender and the formal signing aboard the USS Missouri.

Russia under Putin is fiercely nationalistic and will not give anything away, but Russia is not unaware of it's internationally precarious position as evidenced by their willingness to keep discussing the issue over all these years. Perhaps they are waiting for some anti-US administration to come to power in Japan who will agree to kick out the US military from all of Japan in return for the 4 islands. As unlikely as that is to happen.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Kuril islands are part of Russian fedaration.This fact is internationally recognized and official.

I dont get why japanese gov is "excited" abt russian army drills on russian territory?

Any ideas?

Japanese have lost WW2 and lost Kuril islands as results of it,they could even loose Hokkaido as well but Japan surrender in war stopped soviet army from seizing so.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

MatejToday  09:41 am JST

Kuril islands are part of Russian fedaration.This fact is internationally recognized and official.

Only by Russia. It is not "internationally" recognized.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Old man who does 100 push-ups in the morning against a black belt judo, Harley riding, bear wrestling, hunting, ex boss of the KGB with 3000 nukes.

Anyone into betting?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

OssanAmericaToday 09:47 am JST

MatejToday 09:41 am JST

Kuril islands are part of Russian fedaration.This fact is internationally recognized and official.

Only by Russia. It is not "internationally" recognized.

I am sorry wrong buddy.Islands are legal part of Russian federation.

Bye

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

This is a bit confusing. Earlier in the article, it implies that the issue of the islands were discussed. But then it says the Russian presidential office said it wasn’t discussed.

And let’s not put the cart before the horse on any of this. Remember, Suga just got in office a few weeks ago. So of course other countries aren’t going to make hard fast commitments just yet, considering that they barely know Suga.

And as with any new job that you get, it takes a little time to get your feet wet before you make any big moves. That’s just how it is.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@ Matej. Those four islands are inalienable Japanese territory. Period. They were illegally siezed by a rogue nation. It is only a matter of time before Russia - which is rapidly falling apart and the economy in free-fall - has to return them to Japan.

The Northern Territories are Japanese, end of story, no debate, and its past time the Russians get off the islands.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

There was a call to the Kremlin. Just a Yoroshiku onegaishimasu call. Like anyone of us who's had incenssant telemarketers calls from a certain company, you already know their pitch-lines and all. You endure the ordeal just to be nice, because everyday it's a different person calling. I'd sympathize with you, as I sympathize with Putin, almost condemned to listen to the same old tired gripes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

**** Russia !!..

8 ( +10 / -2 )

MatejToday  10:00 am JST

I am sorry wrong buddy.Islands are legal part of Russian federation.

Bye

Russia passed laws making the illegally occupied four islands Russian legal. Those laws apply only in Russia. No other nation recognizes Russia's position.

dosvidaniya tovarishch

4 ( +9 / -5 )

You can never trust anything he says or turn your back on him for a second.

You don't have to trust him, you just have to guess what he desperately need. No one is saying it, but that $15 billion worth of 'reported/public' Chinese arms export last year is at the direct expense of Russia, how long before every thug and despot rulers stops buying Russian arms altogether? Putin will sooner or later realised he is being squeezed by China. Remember all the Chinese assault rifles captured with ISIS fighters, they would have been Russian assault rifles in days gone by.

IMHO, with the global shift away from China, it wouldn't be half bad to offer something to the Russian in exchange for the islands. I could even see 'some' synergy in Russian engine in an indigenous Japanese 6th gen fighter.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Some old right wingers are making a fuss for a few semi deserted island that they lost during the war but on the other hand their other former axis allied like Germany lost 26% of it’s former territory,east and west Prussia plus Slesia and Italy lost a whole province Istria by Yugoslavia.

Under some of your logic these are also their territory.

Take a deep breath and let it go,and if by chance you can get at least two islands consider yourself extremely lucky.

I never heard Germany asking to Russia to return Königsberg back or Italy to Croatia to return Pola.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The occupation of the Northern Islands is a consequence of, pure and simple;Japanese aggression.

When the ordinary Japanese cannot really understand why ‘Japanese territory’ is in the hands of the foreigner, then all they have to do is take a trip back to 1939,a time of Japanese expansion and adventuring in foreign lands!

Japan got a bloody nose and I am opposed to any treaty that cedes control to Japan.

Too many, far too many times the history espoused by authorities in Japan attempts to whitewash parts of history.The extent of this is obviously shown when the average Japanese shows little or no comprehension of Japan’s activities in its nearest neighbour Korea.

They have little idea.

History gets repeated when it is forgotten...

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The USA will simply bar Japan from making any deal with Russia.

Japan and the Soviet Union ended their formal state of war with the Soviet–Japanese Joint Declaration of 1956, but did not resolve the territorial dispute. During talks leading to the joint declaration, the Soviet Union offered Japan the two smaller islands of Shikotan and the Habomai Islands in exchange for Japan renouncing all claims to the two bigger islands of Iturup and Kunashir, but Japan refused the offer after pressure from the US.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

GoodlucktoyouToday  09:56 am JST

Old man who does 100 push-ups in the morning against a black belt judo, Harley riding, bear wrestling, hunting, ex boss of the KGB with 3000 nukes.

Anyone into betting?

"Karate black belt Yoshihide Suga becomes Japan's new prime minsiter"

https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/news/karate-black-belt-yoshihide-suga-becomes-japans-new-prime-minsiter/20200916085754007952.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think it was Yeltsin that summed it up best.

”Russia took the island in a war, you will need to win them back through war” or something very similar.

The islands are Russian..... move on!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ kurisupisu is spot on. Japan cannot pretend to be the victim with its earlier aggression. And besides only a fool would trust Putin

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

WOW , an accord based 60 years ago ???.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Old man who does 100 push-ups in the morning against a black belt judo, Harley riding, bear wrestling, hunting, ex boss of the KGB with 3000 nukes.

I laughed out loud at that photo of Pootie-Poo on a Harley Davidson. If you look closely you see it's a big trike. Pootie-Poo has no idea how to ride a real motorcycle. Just a poser. And he never "competes" in Judo with anyone who is good. Put a real Judo champ on the mat against him and watch what happens. Pootie-Poo has a very bad herniated disc and would not be able to handle a a competent black belt in an honest competition. He's a big sham, a lot like the Rooster in the White House.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It should also be noted that there was always a definition gap between the USSR and other WWII allies regarding the term "Kurile Islands". The 4 islands in question became Japanese territory by a negotiated Treaty between Russia and Japan in 1855. 

More to the point, it was the first treaty establishing relations between Russia and Japan, the Treaty of Shimoda signed in 1855, that set the boundary between Japanese and Russian territory to lie between Etorofu and Uruppu. To quote: "Henceforth the borders between Russia and Japan will pass between the islands Iturup and Urup. The whole island of Iturup belongs to Japan and the whole island Urup and the other Kuril Islands to the north constitute possessions of Russia". Iturup was the name used for Etorofu and Urup was the name used for Uruppu. The four southernmost islands assigned to Japan by this treaty were populated by Ainu and traditionally part of Japan. They were never part of Russia or controlled by Russians until they were taken by the USSR at the end of WWII.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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